totaly forgot

[leviathin]

so i wanted to mention this to everyone to put the pressure on, but i think its something to celebrate, angela, our local coffee shop owner has signed up for the safety coarse, she is signed up some time late march, which will be awsome, she even has a bike available to her so she can learn, we just need to get rid of this snow so she can, maybe she will even have her own bike by the time the summer rolls around, anyways, i am not sure if she wants me brodcasting this to everyone, so make sure you go and congradulate her on her future rider status, and make sure you let her know it was i that let the cat out of the bag.

[ten31]

what course? MSF?

[leviathin]

yeah the safety course

[mtnairlover]

Another friend -- of Angela and Max -- and Ed's wife (Niamh, sounds like Neve) will also be taking the course in March. We may see her at the coffee shop next Thursday, as well. We'll have to give the both of them some encouragement.:)

[ten31]

As a general rule I encourage the development of safe riding practices through education. However MSF was a fucking joke and a potential waste of money.

New riders are better off spending the money on quality gear and Twist of the Wrist et al and some good ol practice time on a beginner bike like a 250 in an empty parking lot.

[ten31]

I know this may be an unpopular opinion. Flame away if you must. I do support their decision to take the class. I would volunteer my time to teach them to ride to save them the money. Im sure others would too.

[mtnairlover]

If they are doing the ABATE of Colorado course at Front Range Community College in FTC, then they aren't wasting their money. The course is 3 days. The first day was an evening of either 3 or 4 hours, going over lots of safety procedures and watching lots of videos. The next 2 days were 8 hours a piece. We got on the bikes right away in the morning (the bikes were 250's). They would not let us ride without proper gear, either. So, those without helmets had to use ones offered by FRCC. We went over normal bike operations and started from there. Before we went back inside to do book work, we were weaving in and out of traffic cones, practicing the looking down the road while turning in both directions, stops, going over hazards in the road, learning how to go faster in turns, and lots more.

The second day was all course riding after taking the written exam the evening before. The morning, we practiced all parts of the course test. There were 8 parts total. When I was done, I had passed both written and riding. But, the best part about the whole thing was that was the very first time I had ever ridden a motorcycle. No one else in my class was as much a novice as I was...and I was 2 weeks away from my 41st birthday.

I had a friend who is now 58 and has been riding since he was about 4, who had encouraged me to take the course. He said he could teach me, but I wouldn't get what I need to get from him like I could from ABATE. He's also the Auto Tech teacher at my school, so he's got the right kind of patience to teach. The kind of confidence I got from that course and learning on my own like that is what I needed. That wasn't something he would have been able to teach me.

So yeah, I think both Angela and Niamh have made the right choice. They also both have husbands who have been riding for years and probably have already given them plenty of pointers.:)

[leviathin]

i just got back from the haus, i actually rode up there, if angela didnt think i was crazy before, she definitely does now, the 200 yards to the nearest clean street was the hardest part, ice and 1000cc dont mix well, but after a lot of hard work i made it and loved it.

i learned how to ride just by practicing on the dirt bike jumps by my house growing up, i think thats how people should learn, is in the dirt, its more forgiving when you fall, and back then i didnt even know what gear was besides a long sleeve shirt, but thats me.

[ten31]

If they are doing the ABATE of Colorado course at Front Range Community College in FTC, then they aren't wasting their money. The course is 3 days. The first day was an evening of either 3 or 4 hours, going over lots of safety procedures and watching lots of videos. The next 2 days were 8 hours a piece. We got on the bikes right away in the morning (the bikes were 250's). They would not let us ride without proper gear, either. So, those without helmets had to use ones offered by FRCC. We went over normal bike operations and started from there. Before we went back inside to do book work, we were weaving in and out of traffic cones, practicing the looking down the road while turning in both directions, stops, going over hazards in the road, learning how to go faster in turns, and lots more.

The second day was all course riding after taking the written exam the evening before. The morning, we practiced all parts of the course test. There were 8 parts total. When I was done, I had passed both written and riding. But, the best part about the whole thing was that was the very first time I had ever ridden a motorcycle. No one else in my class was as much a novice as I was...and I was 2 weeks away from my 41st birthday.

I had a friend who is now 58 and has been riding since he was about 4, who had encouraged me to take the course. He said he could teach me, but I wouldn't get what I need to get from him like I could from ABATE. He's also the Auto Tech teacher at my school, so he's got the right kind of patience to teach. The kind of confidence I got from that course and learning on my own like that is what I needed. That wasn't something he would have been able to teach me.

So yeah, I think both Angela and Niamh have made the right choice. They also both have husbands who have been riding for years and probably have already given them plenty of pointers.:)

If this is the course they are taking, that sounds great. However MSF=teh dumb.

[mtnairlover]

ABATE is MSF-approved. http://209.246.137.54/ABATE/TRS.nsf/Home?OpenForm

[ten31]

msf is a joke. i could teach you more in 2 days for some beer and chicken wings.

[sky_blue]

Somebody has got to disagree here, might as well be me. MSF is not a joke. Can you honestly say you took nothing away from the course? If that's the case, I'd say you had lousy instructors.

I took it as a total noob, with other noobs, and a few experienced riders trying to get a break on their insurance. I learned a bunch of basic skills. In addition to that, he helped get me set in the "risk assessment/risk mitigation" mindset. We all know there is no way to be 100% safe on a motorcycle, but MSF stressed basic riding skills in conjunction with identifiying risks and hazards and avoiding them.

Is MSF the best way to learn? Maybe not for everyone, but for me it was a great place to start. Was I ready to hit the road after MSF? Nope, I bought my bike, and putted around my neighborhood and a parking lot for another month before I ventured out in to traffic.

My husband took MSF in California, but didnt have a chance to get his motorcycle license before he came here. Darn it, but Colorado dosen't recognize the CA course, so he'll probably take the ABATE thingie in the spring.

[mtnairlover]

msf is a joke. i could teach you more in 2 days for some beer and chicken wings.

Why do you want to put down MSF so much, Fernando? What was it that hurt you so much that you want to try and discredit MSF here in Colorado? Did you even take a look at that website? And, you were completely willing to agree with me after I told you what I learned in the class I took, but once I say it's approved by MSF, you're willing to talk trash about it again. So, what is it really that has you so upset about it?

[64BonnieLass]

Having someone around to learn from and guide you is an awesome thought - chicken wings included. However, I took the ABATE course and it was great for me. Learning from experienced riders is also some of the best stuff and very much a part of being a better rider, however, if you come away from the course learning even one single thing...it's worth the money.
Isn't riding about safety and being conscious about your abilities on the road for both yourself and others around you? I've also heard it said that sometimes people become comfortable with their own bad habits. Again..you learn one thing, or change one thing about your habits and you have educated yourself for the better. That's a good thing.

[leviathin]

some people learn by making baby steps, my dad threw me in the pool as a baby, thats how i learn, just jump right in, i told max when angela gets her license to take her straight to the freeway, when the extremes are thrown at you first i think it is easier to get the little stuff, max thought about it and said he might take her down to denver around 4:30pm, i agreed. she would get a nice clutch workout as well.

[Bueller]

i told max when angela gets her license to take her straight to the freeway .........he might take her down to denver around 4:30pm, i agreed. she would get a nice clutch workout as well.

Good way to get her killed or at least make sure she doesn't ride again:shocked:

[mtnairlover]

To be honest, I think it's all in the individual rider. You know how we talk about it being a rider's choice/decision in getting into an accident (other stupid drivers/riders not withstanding)? It's that same mindset, I think, when learning to ride. You make your decisions based on your comfort level.

I didn't stick with a 250 after taking the course. My first bike was a 750. Although it was old and heavy, I liked it and felt comfortable. My same friend who had prodded me to take the course asked me the day I bought my bike, when we were going to go riding. I asked him to follow me around Loveland to get used to traffic and stops and starts. So we did the very next day. We rode all day long, about 100 miles worth. And we didn't stick to Loveland. We went down 287 to Berthoud and out to Johnstown.

At the end of the day, he asked, "what's next"? I looked at him and said, "the canyon" (Big Thompson Canyon). So, the next day, he followed me up hwy 34. He always had tips and pointers for the way I was riding. We went back down hwy36 to hwy66. I decided to take a country road to come north to Loveland. On a left turn, I came in a bit 'hot' and didn't lean enough, then fixated on a ditch and biffed it...on my second day riding!!! I got up, brushed myself off, we got the bike out of the ditch, started it up and I rode it home. The next day, I was out riding again, and haven't stopped since.

It truly is the rider.

[64BonnieLass]

I learned to swim being thrown in as well...but then again..there was someone there to save me. On a bike, you are on your own and there is no body to save you from stupid mistakes or lack of experience. See the pics people! Get yourself all jacked up and see how you change your riding habits - assuming you can still ride! You are on your own and better know what you are doing. You wanna be a jackass on your own...fine...but don't subject other riders or other motorists to your own stupidity. Be responsible. Because the lack thereof only causes others to not like bikers. And I'm pretty sure we need people to respect us and watch out for us. Educate yourself, educate others, be responsible, care about others. If we want our freedom, then we have to be the proprietors of good will and responsibilty.

[Beotch]

Different people learn in different ways...when I decided to buy a bike, a friend of mine told me to take her EX500 down the street and back and see if I could even work a clutch. What I learned that day was that a clutch was no problem for me...but 6' of long legs on a bike that size doesn't make it so easy to lean. I bought what, at the time, was the biggest and quickest 600CC bike within a week or so, got on, and, aside from a stall and a couple wheelies off of lights, never had a problem.

I did, however, decide to take the ABATE/MSF course about 6 months into riding in order to get the "pass" to get my motorcycle endorsement (wasn't happening on my bike otherwise). Having taught myself, then taken the class, I can see where ten31 is coming from...I thought the bikes were a joke (250 nighthawks), and, if I practiced every single thing they recomended for a riding (cruiser style) I woulda binned my bike more than a few times. Me, personally, I learn on the fly, figure things out as I need to, and can do almost anything if I watch someone else do it...and I learned more by two rides on the back of a bike with an experienced rider than I did in 3 days with instructors on a 250.
However, I also know several smaller, very inexperienced females who had never been on bikes before (front or back) who were able to take the class in what they felt was a controlled environment and feel like they learned a lot.

When Dick(head) decided at the beginning of last summer that he wanted to learn to ride, I elected against the MSF class, feeling that as a rather large guy, he might not learn all that much from riding around on a 250. So, myself, and a couple of friends, spent some time with him in parking lots working on tight turns, panic stops, that sort of thing, then slowly worked him up to riding around Highlands Ranch, then down the highway to my parents, and up from there. He was able, after a month or so of that with his "permit" to go take the test for his endorsement (which he did at RMHD on a Buell blast) and pass on the first try (though mentioned that he was messing around with the Blast feeling like it was a toy to him).

Anyways, to sum it up, I can see where ten31 is coming from, and can concur that for many people (probably guys especially) the MSF is a joke. However, I would slap Ken if he took me out on the higway for my first riding experience. :D

[leviathin]

However, I would slap Ken if he took me out on the higway for my first riding experience. :D


so would i, that bastard

[TurboGizzmo]

Oh well i didnt take the MSF course for the "size of bike" but for the experience and technique it provided.... :roll:

[ten31]

Why do you want to put down MSF so much, Fernando? What was it that hurt you so much that you want to try and discredit MSF here in Colorado? Did you even take a look at that website? And, you were completely willing to agree with me after I told you what I learned in the class I took, but once I say it's approved by MSF, you're willing to talk trash about it again. So, what is it really that has you so upset about it?
If a person had no idea how to ride a bike, no friends with solid riding experience and good safety records, no bike they could easily afford to purchase for learning, I would recommend the MSF course.

This being a forum of from what I can tell, experienced riders who care about each other, I feel as a member, that I can do a better job teaching than MSF. I have taught plenty of people how to ride safely back in Florida.

The ABATE course from what you described and looking at their website, seems to be the exact same thing as MSF. Your description though sounded like a more personal, fulfilling educational experience than what I am used to from MSF.

Again I am not ANTI MSF just ANTI WASTE OF MONEY on education that I maintain can be learned through practice.

In the end, practice of dealing with and recognizing hazards to the point that your reaction to said hazard is no longer a thought process but an instinctual reaction is what keeps you upright and riding along.

PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

[mtnairlover]

In the end, practice of dealing with and recognizing hazards to the point that your reaction to said hazard is no longer a thought process but an instinctual reaction is what keeps you upright and riding along.

PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE

Exactly. And, because I was such a newb to the whole riding experience, it was the ABATE course that gave me the confidence to want to practice, practice, practice. That confidence, may or may not have been derived from my friend, so I'm glad I paid the extra money to learn from seasoned riders. And, yeah, I still want to go out and practice, practice, practice:)

[irdave]

My soon to be ex-wife took the course at FRCC. I think she took a lot away from it, so it was a good thing.

Shortly thereafter, though, I had her on the track- where you can actually learn what makes the bike turn. Very good thing. That's where I take all my friends. And if you do crash, you just throw the bike in the back of the truck and drive home.

Already talked to Niamh about the track- and I know Ed can't wait to go!

[Beotch]

so would i, that bastard
:lol: :slap: