Pat Tillman was murdered, and the government covered it up...

[Kanabiis]

This sickens me to the bone... but I and many others had always suspected something was just not right with the Pat Tillman situation.

The government, specifically the White House has been putting pressure on the medical examiners who did the autopsy on Tillman forcing them to remain quiet about their questions regarding Tillman's death.

Apparently the shot grouping and damage to Tillman's head suggested to the medical examiners that Tillman was shot at close range, no more then 30 feet. This contradicts every story we have been told since the announcement of Pat's death.

We were told at first that Tillman died a hero in a firefight with the enemy, that story was changed a month later when the media could not find any evidence of said firefight. They then told us that he was tragically killed in a low light friendly fire incident. The details continued for the next 4 years to change every time Tillman's parents lawyers were able to dig up more documents that contradicted the story.

Once the lawyers did too much digging, the White House, under that oft used 'executive privilege' excuse, classified the remaining documents and stonewalled any further investigation.

However, as things like this go, the truth has slowly been coming out, the medical examiner that autopsied Tillman immediately suspected murder and called the appropriate authorities, however he was rebuffed, he then called CID and attempted to start a criminal investigation, however he was told no such investigation would be opened, Tillman was killed by accidental fire, even though the medical examiner was sure the shot grouping and range was too close to suggest accidental fire.

This my friends is the worst kind of coverup, Pat Tillman was used as propaganda for the war machine when he left the NFL to fight for the 'war on terrorism'. Bush used his name in countless speeches speaking of Tillman's patriotism and self sacrifice for his country. When Tillman was killed, the White House used his death as a propaganda prop once again, detailing the sacrifice Tillman made for his country, and urged other young men to follow his example and join the fight.

To later find out that not only were we lied to about the circumstances surrounding Tillman's death, but the fact that people in the chain of command, probably all the way to the White House KNEW that Tillman was probably murdered, well my friends, I think that makes everyone involved an accessory to murder after the fact. Someone needs to be held accountable......

Links to coverage:

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/topstories_story_207212230.html

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003617692

[Kanabiis]

I'm stunned that there are no replies at all.....

[~Barn~]

Well you just ruined that, now didn't you!

[Suki]

well it's no suprise to me, and i wouldn't doubt that they are covering up something. i still believe that they lied about how my cousin died, he was a Navy Seal and they said he was accidentally shot during a live ammo training. i highly doubt that, he'd been in the service and a SEAL for too long to just forget something as simple as keeping his head down, plus the angle of the wound and how he was found. Like they would actually admit to him being killed while on a secret mission or if it was murder.

[greenramp]

I am a former Ranger and i did my service during Operation "Just Cause" Panama, and Operation "Desert Storm". This thread may not have turned any heads here but it is BIG news on other forums. Thank You for spreading the word and keep up the Support.


“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil…
…is for good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke
www.obsessionthemovie.com (http://www.obsessionthemovie.com)

[clustermagnet]

Bushies are all about oil... Their hands would be black if they werent covered with blood...

fuck the gov

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Who killed JFK?

[Nick_Ninja]

Who killed JFK?

LBJ

[Scribbler]

Trying to keep an open mind about it...and reading everything....

Where exactly does "Murder" come into play?

I will concede that yes there was some sort of coverup based perhaps on some sort of celebrity status that the US Gov could use (although it wasn't like Pat Tillman was a celebrity that every American would recognize). However through all references...other than Tillman's family accusing, there is no evidence of murder. Yes the story changed from enemy fire to friendly fire...but that could also be a trumped up story to not let out to the public that stupid accidents happen, and instead blamed it on friendly fire. I read through those links...where did it qoute the doctors/examiners insinuating murder? They merely pointed out that the bullets hitting him weren't conforming to how the explanation/story was laid out.

It could just as likely have been some young idiot either panicked or wasn't paying attention and fired a short burst into a comrade.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not condoning the incident (it was definately a horribly unfortunate incident), however I'm just questioning where the term "Murder" is coming into play.

[Kanabiis]

scribbler, if u read the article you need to reread it you missed this nugget

"The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillman's body was suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said he took the unusual step of calling the Army's Human Resources Command and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army's Criminal Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal case."

The medical examiner took the unusual step of asking for an investigation based on his findings but was told there was no need.

Who do you suppose is in a better position to judge the man conducting the autopsy or some ranking officer? I was under the impression that autopsies are how you figure out if someone was murdered or if a shooting was accidental maybe the times have changed in the last 24 hours or something.

[Nick_Ninja]

the three gunshot wounds to the forehead

The close pattern of the gunshot grouping is highly suggestive of murderous activity.

[Scribbler]

Yes an autopsy does narrow down the cause of death...however it does not get simplified to murder or accidental death. There are several other factors to it as well.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not arguing either side...

However I am acquainted with the M-16, and know that there is a firing option which will fire a 3 round burst. And that it is entirely possible that somebody had screwed up and fired a 3 round burst into Tillman accidentally. From 10 yards away, based on the M-16's rate of fire, even in an accidental situation, could still place the pattern in a very small area. Combine that with a significant flaw of the M-16 that even with no round chambered, a not so sharp impact of the butt of the rifle to the ground can indeed itself cause an unintentioned chambering, it's not entirely impossible that it could have been an accident. I myself spent 9 years in the military (before Clinton did his cutbacks), and one of the first things I learned about the M-16 was that flaw. It was demonstrated numerous times to me and others. More than once I've seen GI's pull the trigger into a SandCan when turning in their rifle at the armory, and honestly surprised when a round fired.

I'm not saying that the military might have fudged the facts... I'm just hesitant to believe that there was actual murder involved.

[MAZIN]

3 shot grouping sound fimilar to a M-16 in burst mode

[Brizz]

3 shot grouping sound fimilar to a M-16 in burst mode
BS:scream1:..no one is that steady...But hell what do i know?

[mtnairlover]

Murder or accident...what gets me is that it was essentially covered up, and instead the story became a great piece of propaganda.

Some thoughts/words going through my head when reading the original post include, arrogance, humility (lack of), waste of life, sensationalism, complacency...oh, I guess I could go on, but that works for now.

I'm just tired of the state of affairs as they are now. No one is being held accountable anymore, and when someone does stand up to blow that whistle, they are the one's being chastised and ridiculed, even losing their jobs.

Meh...I guess I'm growing close to complacency myself. Sad, huh?

[MAZIN]

BS:scream1:..no one is that steady...But hell what do i know?

just a suggestion. I'm not an expert by any means just a mere speculater like everyone else.

[Brizz]

Nope we handled it by PM's..Like the grown folk do...Yes Admins im sure youll read em..(Dont worry theres in there i wouldnt want you to read...)

[MAZIN]

Indeed we handled it like grown folk lol, maybe we could be an example to all the arguing kiddies out there?....so ends the Brizz-Mazin csc diplomatic relations minute. Maybe we should get a UN Peace keeping gig?

[Brizz]

Sure thing..I know how to negotiate

[PharmerKyle]

Meh...I guess I'm growing close to complacency myself. Sad, huh?
"Meh" has got to be the best word for the 21st century.

[puckstr]

It is not a suprise.

I served in the Navy when the USS Iowa 16" gun turret exploded. I was on another ship but I was able to read the message traffic about the incident. The Navy tried to pin it on two sailors. They were labled as everything from Terrorists to fags with a death pact.


The truth finally came out. and it was the Navy's fault that 47 service men died.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3720/is_199907/ai_n8874873

The complete story in the above link.

It is a complete shame that Pat Tillman was killed and it is not a suprise that it was covered up.

Come on the Bush administration needs a pretty face on the war, not a dead Professional Football player. So they covered it up asap.


It makes my stomach hurt but It does not suprise me at all.

[mtnairlover]

It makes my stomach hurt but It does not suprise me at all.

We need to be more "surprised" and to not allow cover ups to lull us into a sense of a righteous nation...we are not any better than any other nation/government out there. Bring back humility and lose the arrogance and maybe things will surprise us.

I wish I could get angry enough to do something more than say something here.:(

Yeah Kyle, and my "meh" was passed down to me by another pal. I need to change that and change it soon.

[puckstr]

We need to be more "surprised" and to not allow cover ups to lull us into a sense of a righteous nation...we are not any better than any other nation/government out there. Bring back humility and lose the arrogance and maybe things will surprise us.

I wish I could get angry enough to do something more than say something here.:(

Yeah Kyle, and my "meh" was passed down to me by another pal. I need to change that and change it soon.

We as a nation have been shushed, and labled as unpatriotic when we object to the actions of the rulers.

Apathy has become the normal operating mode of many Americans. We as Americans NEED to be outraged and SPEAK OUT.

Maybe in 2008 things may change but I remember thing that about 2004.

Why is we have such Poor choices for our leaders. Face it if we were interviewing any of these "jack-offs" for a job we would laugh at them and send them packing.

Our Presidents are so out-of-touch with the people it is pathetic. Ask any president (as if one could) if HE knows what a loaf of bread costs or a Gallon of Milk costs. Hell when was the last time they went to a grocery store? They don't. They live in a seperate world isolated from us.

HAAAAAaaaaaa:banghead:

[Kanabiis]

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials




Amazing how relevant this quote is today.... its as if the Bush Administration used it as their exact recipe in handling the 'war on terrorism'. Fox news uses the recipe daily.



What bothers me most is, most Americans don't even care, as long as they get their daily update on Paris Hilton or Lindsey Lohan, they could care less about how their freedoms are being eroded at an astounding pace, or how they are being sold to the highest corporate bidder.....



The sheepole of America will fall like the Romans did... arrogant, greedy and complacent.

[greenramp]

...where did it qoute the doctors/examiners insinuating murder? They merely pointed out that the bullets hitting him weren't conforming to how the explanation/story was laid out.
So given that the bullets didnt come from the enemy ... and if the friendly's new they were there ... MURDER
Thats as bad as saying "he only gave 1 blow job...he's not gay!" Wake up America and get your head out of Hillary's ass.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/31/tillman.friendly.fire.letter.ap/

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/topstories/index.ssf?/base/politics-12/118590745897330.xml&storylist=topstories

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArti cle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173352178613&path=!nationworld&s=1037645509161

Not Knockin you Scribbler it's just we as Americans do our best to take the blame away from the Obvious. Friendly fire has occured in every war ever fought and is part of War's sad tradition. We had 42,884 total Fatalities in 1995 on our american roads. Only 26,953 Total American fatalties since 1993 in Iraq. I am not down playing any of these deaths since they all are a tragedy. But we need to be there and we need to give them support. Look past your own adgendas if you will and disagree that we need to be there, but give them and our country the support it needs right now to get this job done.
http://obsessionthemovie.com/
this is the real deal... beleive it.

[Kanabiis]

Another support the troops by supporting their deaths response.... :slappers:

Bury your head in the sand if you want to believe that Tillman was just another friendly fire accident if you want....

3 round burst to the head at 10 yards..... you know, the distance it takes to get a first down. Thats pretty much point blank range for an M-16...

Accidental shotting by some dumb ass kid out of high school on his first combat mission, I can believe that, possibly.

But these are Army Rangers we are talking about, men who eat/sleep/breath combat. Do you have ANY clue what it takes just to make selection to go to Ranger training? And then you have to pass the training to actually get the Ranger patch. We aren't talking novice weapons handlers here, we are talking men who are more then experts with their weapons, men who can hit qualifying targets with an open sight M-16 at 100+ yards.

Men who are trained to identify twice before pulling the trigger, men who are trained not to even have a finger close to the trigger unless you have identified twice. Men who are trained to be the direct opposite of careless with their weapons, because these men are trained to fight in very close proximity of their fellow soldiers, these men are the epitome of safe.

From someone who has lived military all of my life, the characterization of what happened that day just contradicts every piece of who the army Rangers are.

What is the White House hiding if this was indeed a careless, accidental shooting? Why do they need to continue to hide behind executive privilege if there is nothing to hide. If this is a friendly fire incident like others in the past, why has the shooter not been identified, and like every other friendly fire episode, at least been reprimanded ? It's not like they can't figure it out, they have the bullet, they have the guns... its simple forensics.. its not like the weapons aren't already property of the US government or anything, or that any soldier carrying the weapon wouldn't be on record or anything right? right?

[greenramp]

I am a former Ranger and I did my service during Operation "Just Cause" Panama, and Operation "Desert Storm"...
As I said before I know what it takes and I have been there. If you read the first hand account of the guy standing next to him, he stood up in the middle of the fire fight and yelled " I am Pat Tillman CEASE fire, Do you know who I am?"
Pressure under fire makes people do strange things! The other guy was praying for his life. Read the posts... I did. I do not condone the cover up and i find it very typical being that I have seen some of the cover-ups first hand.