Brake pads... Confusion...

[mclarke]

So I have been looking into new front pads as well as SS lines. I am just kind of confused with who considers what Good for street/some track use? After all the reviews I have read I feel no smarter then day 1.

Any help?

(Btw its a 04 R6)

[The GECCO]

If you are going to be doing even a limited amount of track days I would advise you to stay away from an organic pad because they just won't hold up. EBC is a popular brand that is readily available at most shops and the next step up is their HH Sintered line, that would be my recommendation. It's an excellent street pad that will survive track use just fine, and it won't chew up an OEM rotor.

There are lost of good pads out there (Performance Friction, Ferodo, etc) but I am not familiar enough with their product lines to be able to advise which one is best for your use.

[konichd]

EBC is popular because their cheap, they are probably the worst fuckin' pad you can use. I would go with the Vesrah's, having heard very good things about them. Having used a set of EBC HH's on my 05 636, I will never use another set. Worse pad I have ever used. The pads I like the most at this moment are the SBS Race Sintered, I will be putting a set of these on the 636 this fall.

Also on stainless lines don't get gafler(sp), for the same price you can get some spiegler's and you'll be happier. I have gafler's on my 636 and can't wait to toss them in the fuckin' garbage. I have the spiegler's on my zx-10r and wish I put a set on the 636. I guess thats one more thing to correct this winter before riding season next spring.

[Jenny]

I ditched the EBC's on the racebike very quickly. I have been much more satisfied with the Performance Friction on my R6.

[Beotch]

:imwithstupid: I do have EBC HH's on the rear of my track bike though :D

[~Barn~]

I had HH EBC's on my R1, in tandem with stainless lines, and I really liked the performance. On the street they were (obviously) more than capable. For the handful of trackdays I put them through, they stood up great. Never experienced any fade, never lost their predictability, no wacky moments of any sort. Even the rear with the race-pad and a steal line was completely usable once I got over the learning curve of how to modulate it. Maybe Bart just had my braking system really dialed in, I dunno. I absolutely loved the braking power on "Britney".

Of course I am not quite the same level of rider as our most vocal detractor of the EBCs, so your mileage may very. :lol:

P.F. and Ferodo are certainly worthwhile considerations.

[hcr25]

Brake pads are like tires for the most part. You need to try them and see what you like best.
I have used EBC brake pads for the past 8 or so years on all of my race bikes. I have tried other brands, at least 5 brands in the past 2 years. I like the feel of EBC pad best. I have won several MRA class championships using EBC brake pads!

Something to think about is cleaning your rotors when you switch from brand to brand. Brake pads are made from different materials, so brand X might not work well after using brand Y.
mike

[Jayock]

EBC has a better pad than the HH also. I get around pretty well on EBC SB110s, as does mike. Thats what I run on both my bikes, and they were good enough to put me 6th in Open Supersport this last weekend, against people like Aaron Clarke, etc.

I don't know how many times I've out-braked someone into 1 at PMP with my EBCs.

[The GECCO]

Something to think about is cleaning your rotors when you switch from brand to brand. Brake pads are made from different materials, so brand X might not work well after using brand Y.
mike


This is an excellent point, and the best way to do this, especially when changing brands, is to have them bead blasted. TFOG does this.

[Bueller]

EBC is popular because their cheap, they are probably the worst fuckin' pad you can use.
What do you base this on?

[Ray-Ray]

I have a brand new set of ferodo's that I would sell you for $40.

[jplracing]

Not to rain on Ray's parade but I have a set of Performance Friction new in package...$75.00

[Ray-Ray]

LOL... No rain here!! I just don't have an R6 anymore! Tired of them taking room up in my tool box!!

WHERE ARE MY STICKERS!! I forgot to swing by!! I need to get some next race for sure!!

[mclarke]

jpl, you have a set for the 6? mmmm i may have to take you up on it....

[jplracing]

jpl, you have a set for the 6? mmmm i may have to take you up on it....


Yup sure do! PM me or call me at 3/961-2669

[jplracing]

LOL... No rain here!! I just don't have an R6 anymore! Tired of them taking room up in my tool box!!

WHERE ARE MY STICKERS!! I forgot to swing by!! I need to get some next race for sure!!

My stickers are in my trailer...dammit!

No problem see you on labor day

[hcr25]

What do you base this on?

Maybe he is doing some research :)

[konichd]

I read a couple of reviews when looking for new brake pads and found that people didn't think too highly of the EBC's. I had them on my 636 at VIR this past week and the feel and fade was horrible.

After trying the SBS I won't use a different pad based on all the feedback from other racers.

Feel free to buy cheap shit though :)

[Devaclis]

Dave, when you are ready to get rid of those brake lines, let me know. I will take them off your hands.

[konichd]

I will put your name on them Dana. :)

[Devaclis]

Thanks bro :)

[konichd]

You know by the time your done taking my leftovers the Hawk will be more Kawasaki than Honda :)

[Devaclis]

haha Who is to say this is not for a Kawi that I have?

Actually, you are correct sir!! They are for the Hawk. I love the Galfer lines. The ones I have now are just ugly.

[Jayock]

I read a couple of reviews when looking for new brake pads and found that people didn't think too highly of the EBC's. I had them on my 636 at VIR this past week and the feel and fade was horrible.

After trying the SBS I won't use a different pad based on all the feedback from other racers.

Feel free to buy cheap shit though :)

I love your conviction even after 3 racers have stood behind EBC in this thread. And I promise you SB110s are not cheap shit.

I've heard good things about the SBS though, I'm glad you like them and found something that works for you.

[konichd]

I have just as many "racers" saying EBC's are crap too :dunno:

[Bueller]

Maybe he is doing some research :)
I figured that, but I think I would take the word of "racers" I actually know.

[Bueller]

I read a couple of reviews when looking for new brake pads and found that people didn't think too highly of the EBC's...............
Feel free to buy cheap shit though :)
I race on stock motors,
I race on stock suspension,
I race on take offs,
I race on pump gas,
I race on EBC HH pads,
I buy cheap shit whenever possible.

I am not the fastest nor the most skilled rider out there racing, and I have yet to out ride the performance offered by all my stock, cheap equipment, but by being "cheap" I have made every race this year, and have the points to prove it.

I race therefore I am CHEAP! :lol:

[hcr25]

I just think its funny how you can say EBC pads are "probably the worst fuckin pad you can use" based on you have personally used EBC and one other brand.
Im not syaing EBC is the best, just that they work very good for ME.
Whether is brakes,tires or bikes how can I personally say what is the best or worst without trying all brands myself?

Speaking of tires, i read those colored Tomahawk tires are the best race tire out right now.:crazy:

[konichd]

I've tried other brands on previous bikes, I do have EBC's on my 636 and I think their crap compared to what I've used before and riding other people's bikes. Say what you will, I just don't care for them after having them on my bike.

Clark is a friend of mine and I'm just offering my opinion on the subject. After my track day at VIR I won't ever use another set of EBC's on any of my bikes. I actually had to pull into the hot pit to adjust my lever to compensate for the brake fade I was getting. I've found other brake pads that provide me with the feel and consistency I'm looking for. I'm not trying to get anyone bent out of shape, hell I swear by Dunlop's for chist sake! :lol:

Its just my opinion on the subject.

[Bueller]

Speaking of tires, i read those colored Tomahawk tires are the best race tire out right now.:crazy:
Speaking more of tires, I need to get those other take offs from you Mike, those Super Corsa pro's kicked ass at Miller last weekend!

[jplracing]

Speaking of tires, i read those colored Tomahawk tires are the best race tire out right now.:crazy:

Mike can you get some sponsership? I really want those camo tires!:shocked:

[hcr25]

The camo is sweet but i like the neon orange!

[Jayock]

The camo is sweet but i like the neon orange!

You would.

[The GECCO]

Say what you will, I just don't care for them after having them on my bike.

<snip>

Its just my opinion on the subject.


Perhaps it would have been more diplomatic to simply say it like this, instead of

EBC is popular because their cheap, they are probably the worst fuckin' pad you can use.

and

Feel free to buy cheap shit though :)

Your attitude comes across that you feel your opinion is the only valid one around. Frankly, it aint.


I had them on my 636 at VIR this past week and the feel and fade was horrible.
I actually had to pull into the hot pit to adjust my lever to compensate for the brake fade I was getting.

A properly functioning brake system is more than just the pads and what you describe above is more likely attributed to problems with the fluid, not the pads. Especially since you had just gone from Colorado (dry, high altitude) to Virginia (humid, low altitude). Brake fluid is very hygroscopic.

Or maybe you just ride so hard that you push your brakes harder than anyone else on the planet :roll:

[pilot]

The 2006 edition of the MRA mag gives the EBCs a decent plug.

Oh, and we put them on #112 and they seemed to work just fine for several rides. Well, at least good enough to help move up into 2nd in the NGTU standings.

[~Barn~]

Well put Glenn.
:applause:

[konichd]

First off, I don't feel my opinion is the only valid one. I relayed my experience and how I don't care for EBC's. I offered other opinions on brake pads that I like and why.

I had my brakes re-bled at VIR and also had to refill the fluid a little. The fade was a result of the pads, not the brake system itself.

If you don't like my opinion fine, its my opinion on the subject. Am I a racer? no.....but is my opionion worth any less than yours? no

EBC's are shit, I won't ever buy another pair from the experience I've had.

Sorry if I didn't bow down to the fuckin' ground when all the racer's walked in ;)

[The GECCO]

I had my brakes re-bled at VIR and also had to refill the fluid a little. The fade was a result of the pads, not the brake system itself.

I doubt it. Excessive lever travel is a fluid or seal problem, not a pad problem. Try completely flushing your brake fluid. Every time you open the cap on the reservoir you are rapidly accelerating the deterioration of your fluid, especially in a high humidity environment.

[konichd]

Well the fluid was flushed and it has brand new Gafler lines on the front :dunno:

[hcr25]

When are you going to race your track bike?

[konichd]

Next year's MRA season :)

[The GECCO]

"Bled" and "refill a little" is not flushed, I'm talking about completely emptying, cleaning and refilling the system. Also, the same rules about every time you open the reservoir also apply to your bottle of brake fluid. Buy a small bottle and keep it factory sealed for as long as possible. When flushing, fill the system with fluid from a factory sealed bottle and put a mark and date on the bottle every time you open it. If it's been open more than 3 or 4 times, or more than a couple months since the seal was broken, recycle the fluid and buy a new bottle.

As I said above, brake fluid is EXTREMELY hygroscopic, and the moisture it absorbs is horribly detrimental to it's ability to work properly, especially under high stress conditions.

[hcr25]

you should try and do 1 race this year, that way you will have some points and not have to be gridded at the back next year.

[konichd]

Time will run out before I can take the MRA class and have my bike fully prepped. :(

Plus I like the kids in the "second wave" :)

[denverbusa]

DK I would be lieing if I wouldn't admit to thinking "oohh popcorn time" when I saw your comment, and this was a two thumbs up thread!

Brake pads would be hard pressed (pun intended) to cause any noticible brake fade. Could it be assummed that the EBC's were put on with your "new SS lines," if so then I believe you would be much more productive to look into the posibility of a small air bubble. The problem comes from cavities near the top that unless you purge large volumes of fluid (see Gecco's comment above) through the system you will not get it out.

I agree with others that you buy what works for you because lets face it at 150+MPH with a sharp turn directly ahead of you, you better be confident in your brakes.

Myself, I have gone through the stocks and two sets of EBC HH. I replaced the first set of EBC's with another set of EBC HH because I never noticed the brakes. If I did notice them then it would have been because of problems and luckily I have had none. I am also on the original rotor and it is showing no signs of wear beyond what might be expected for a bike with 35K miles.

[hcr25]

Time will run out before I can take the MRA class and have my bike fully prepped. :(

Plus I like the kids in the "second wave" :)

Now i remeber, you are the guy who said you would rather trek to Miller or Pueblo then go to the new track and that you wouldnt donate to the new track until after it was built.

[konichd]

Correct! I will support High Plans once its built, but until then Ene has my money or Larry Miller will. :)

But back to brakes, I actually did have the brakes re-bled and refilled with fluid with some help from the Pro-Motion guys when I got down to VIR. The bike was actually pretty good the first 2 days but the 3rd day the performance of the brakes dropped off noticably. Hence why I do not hold EBC's in high regard.

[Bueller]

If on your 3rd concecutive track day, you had ben abusing the brakes (as track days do) you could have over heated the brakes repeatedly causing the fluid to boil, if you drag your brakes you may have glazed them over. A squishy lever is not the pads (as previously stated), so if you are calling the soft lever condition fade then the pads are not the culprit.
I think you need to change your statement to "Insert name here brake fluid is the worst fucking shit you could use on your bike."

[konichd]

:lol: Stupid race fluid!

[pf702]

EBC HH Pads...are the bomb...don't let anyone tell you any different !! period !!

[TFOGGuys]

If on your 3rd concecutive track day, you had ben abusing the brakes (as track days do) you could have over heated the brakes repeatedly causing the fluid to boil, if you drag your brakes you may have glazed them over. A squishy lever is not the pads (as previously stated), so if you are calling the soft lever condition fade then the pads are not the culprit.
I think you need to change your statement to "Insert name here brake fluid is the worst fucking shit you could use on your bike."

Not to mention, EBC has won more MRA and AMA class championships than all other brands combined. I think perhaps DK's issues are related to pad choice and application, rather than the pads being inherently bad. The standard HH street pad is designed to work well cold, offer consistent high performance under STREET conditions, and last well. It may well be asking a little much to expect it to perform under what are essentially endurance racing conditions. A better choice for the dedicated track rider would be the EBC Race Kit pads, which are compounded for maximum performance un racing conditions. Put another way, a 9 iron may well be the "worst fucking golf club ever" if what is called for is a putter!:)

[N1KSS1KS1x]

So ebc race kit pads and have my rotors blasted and i should be good to go? I gotta alot shit to buy for next session can I getaway with running the stock lines? I had a little bit of lever fad during the summer at pmp but bleeding fixed it. I did notice that the fronts look glazed after i came in from a session on the 17th. I'm running the stock pads. The rotors were almost purple lookin. I had no problems with umm though allday. I was braking preety efing hard going into 1 and 9.
I've heard that changing the lines makes a huge differance in feel and the brakes perform much better. Is this true from what you guys have experanced? What about rotors at what point are the stockers not good enough. This is my first bike and I've never ridin a bike with anything but stock stuff.
I know this is a pad thread but I'm curious as what guys think of this and didnt want start a new thread for it.

[Terra]

Oh, and we put them on #112 and they seemed to work just fine for several rides. Well, at least good enough to help move up into 2nd in the NGTU standings.Actually this is untrue...

In a pinch, you had picked up a set of EBC HH pads for my race bike from GPM, however they accidentally gave us the wrong pads... Simple matter of looking it up in the application chart and using the part number from the line above... :(

After we realized that, I put the stock Kawasaki pads back on as they weren't totally toast yet, just a little glazed and enough to finish out the remaining day's races...

From there, Faster got in a set of Ferodo Racing pads (FDB2220CP211) in time for my next race... Thank goodness, because the last race toasted my stock pads, as evidenced when I tried to late brake for turn #9 (overtaking two other racers in the last lap) and overshot the turn leading to a white knuckle moment of almost eating a face full of dirt...

After cleaning the rotors with a rotary stone/hone, and seated in the pads, the braking was phenomenal! One thing about Kawasaki, is that their stock pads, rotors, and braking system is already top notch, but I do notice a slight bit of fade in the last couple laps... Once the Ferodo's went on, the fade went away and they were consistent race after race... I also appreciated that they seat in really quick, requiring only 3 to 4 laps of progressive application before they are race ready...

On the topic of EBC HH brakes, I did try them on my ZX-10R - going through the same ritual of stone cleaning the rotors and taking the time to properly seat them... Needless to say, I replaced them with stock Kawasaki pads about 200 miles later because they sounded like they were chewing up my rotor... Yes, I triple checked that they were installed correctly... When I took them off, they were glazed and my rotors were scored a little bit... Once again, I went through the ritual of cleaning and replacing with Kawi stock pads... I've now got 2000+ miles on the new pads, and the rotors look great and the pads are not glazed...

Anyhow, that is my 2 cents of experience - take it for what you will... :)

--
Terra