Teacher Baiting. Sad stuff.

[pilot]

So there's your child, sister, cousin, sitting in 9th grade when all of a sudden one of the students gets up and starts doing the grind on the substitute teacher. As the teacher walks away and asks the student to stop, the kid follows and keeps it up. Then, the cameras and cell phones come out--as previously planned. The teacher becomes disgusted and gets naturally upset at the students. Soon thereafter, the video is up and running on the internet.

This issue was being broadcast on the TV this morning. Pretty sad. Times have really changed and the more "stupid" a situation gets, the more support it seems to generate. Especially from those that think most everything is within their grasp and right to do.

I feel sorry for the teachers out there. Nowadays [and yes there are a few bad apples out there] it is tough enough to get people to teach for low wages and such high stress, such as performance goals that are based on satisfying the parents not the education of the child, etc. Now the teachers have to deal with kids setting them up for a fall on the net.

What to do?

[Devaclis]

Corporal punishment. /thread

[Dietrich_R1]

What to do..... ?

Bring back the wooden paddle!!!!!

[pilot]

That stuff went out the door in the 80's. ACLU actions. Teacher's hands are tied.

[Devaclis]

Exactly. This action bread the entitlement generation. Bring back respect for teachers. The right for teachers to discipline their students. Bring that back and you bring back a structured learning environment. What have they done in the past 20 years to raise considerate, respectful students?

[Yellow Bullet]

What have they done in the past 20 years to raise considerate, respectful students?


:slappers:

[Devaclis]

Emo kids would have had their ass kicked when I was younger. Anyone over 30 here knows that if you EVER asked your sister if you could wear her clothes to school, she would rat you out and you get jacked up in the school parking lot.

Kids should NOT be able to do whatever they feel like. Should NOT be able to wear what they want, say what they want, eat, fuck, drive, or hang out with who they want. They need direction. They need a bit of discipline. Then need to be told FUCK NO sometimes. To be disappointed, to be let down, to be rejected, and to know that they are not at an age where they control their own destiny. Parents have given up on controlling their kids. Schools are not allowed to control them. This is why live in a society of extremes. This is why KIDS are killing other KIDS at school. Give junior a fucking spanking if he talks back at a teacher. Do it in front of his classmates. Start this at an early age. Let him know that disrespect will NOT be tolerated. OR, give me juniors address and I will come over and help him understand.

[mtnairlover]

It's hard to remain motivated as a teacher and I think that may just be true about any profession. What keeps me going is that I don't get the same students year after year and I do have shining stars each and every year. Yes, we have to deal with kids who feel entitled and yes, we have to deal with kids who are trouble makers, but on the flip-side, we also get the joy of knowing someone we worked with has "made it" in life, cuz those kids come back to remind us of the impact we made in their lives. I get one of those kids at least once a year and typically at the start of the school year. It kinda helps to get me through the tough times with the one or two disruptive kids in the class room.

Do I think there needs to be a change? Maybe, but I am at the mercy of the school board and an advisory committee and all other community members. I am at the mercy of the public. In order for a change to occur, the public needs to request that change.

Oh, a neat website I found...http://festivals.iloveindia.com/teachers-day/world-teachers-day/index.html

[dirkterrell]

I agree that we've gotten too soft on discipline with kids in school and, from what I can see of kids' and parents' behavior in public, at home too. Adults seem to think that kids are these fragile little things that will collapse at the first sign of difficulty in their lives. Kids are, for the most part, tough and I think they respect adults who set rules and enforce them. Tough but fair is an approach that always resonated positively with me.

I coach football at a Boulder middle school and my football lineage goes back through Bear Bryant, so discipline is the core of my coaching philosophy. I make it very clear that a position on our team is dependent on their getting the job done in class, being courteous to their elders, and being respectful of their fellow students. I always address them as "gentlemen" to reinforce the idea that they are held to a higher standard of behavior. To some, this comes as a bit of a shock in the beginning. But at the end of the season, I can always see the positive growth in these young men. I get universal thanks from them and their parents about the positive experience that playing football has been for them. That is why I coach. Football had a tremendously positive effect on my life and I will spend the rest of my life re-paying the debt I owe to my coaches and teammates. It is difficult to describe what it means to those who didn't experience it, but football at this level can have a powerfully positive effect on the direction of kids and it is what drives me to spend the time doing it. I think the same philosophy of discipline applied to the classroom would have similar positive effects. It certainly did for me.

Dirk

[salsashark]

It's hard to remain motivated as a teacher and I think that may just be true about any profession. What keeps me going is that I don't get the same students year after year and I do have shining stars each and every year. Yes, we have to deal with kids who feel entitled and yes, we have to deal with kids who are trouble makers, but on the flip-side, we also get the joy of knowing someone we worked with has "made it" in life, cuz those kids come back to remind us of the impact we made in their lives. I get one of those kids at least once a year and typically at the start of the school year. It kinda helps to get me through the tough times with the one or two disruptive kids in the class room.

Do I think there needs to be a change? Maybe, but I am at the mercy of the school board and an advisory committee and all other community members. I am at the mercy of the public. In order for a change to occur, the public needs to request that change.

Oh, a neat website I found...http://festivals.iloveindia.com/teachers-day/world-teachers-day/index.html

I have several friends who teach in Denver and Douglas County and it's sad that you and they need to hold on to those one or two students each year who succeed for motivation. It should be the expectation to succeed, not the exception.

When I was in school, it was known in my house that anything less than a 3.0 each semester and there would be hell to pay. We were expected to do well, there was no question. There was also no taking lame classes to pad the grades. But then again, like Dana, I'm over 30.

I can't believe I'm about to say this, but I completely agree with Dana on this one.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

First off, I think cell phones or Blackberry's etc. should be banned from school except for lunch, and breaks. Any kid caught using one during class, except for an emergency, should be suspended. And, let's have cameras in all the school areas, so this could be seen as a set-up. When you see how the b!tch who cut those 2 classmates legs got off without so much as a slap on the wrist, you understand how f#cked up the country is with the lawyers.

[Scribbler]

My first year of Middle School all the teachers sent notes home with their students informing parents that schools will no longer be able to spank or use corporal punishment without parental consent. The moment my father read the "without parental consent" portion, he said "Son...go get me pen and paper." LOL

Couple years later, there was no longer an option for parental consent...oh well...

Looking back, I can respect my parent's position on it.

[mtnairlover]

Teacher Tribute

Whose Child Is This

"Whose child is this?" I asked one day
Seeing a little one out at play
"Mine", said the parent with a tender smile
"Mine to keep a little while
To bathe his hands and comb his hair
To tell him what he is to wear
To prepare him that he may always be good
And each day do the things he should"

"Whose child is this?" I asked again
As the door opened and someone came in
"Mine", said the teacher with the same tender smile
"Mine, to keep just for a little while
To teach him how to be gentle and kind
To train and direct his dear little mind
To help him live by every rule
And get the best he can from school"

"Whose child is this?" I ask once more
Just as the little one entered the door
"Ours" said the parent and the teacher as they smiled
And each took the hand of the little child
"Ours to love and train together
Ours this blessed task forever."

--Author Unknown

[636Chick]

Teacher Tribute

Whose Child Is This

"Whose child is this?" I asked one day
Seeing a little one out at play
"Mine", said the parent with a tender smile
"Mine to keep a little while
To bathe his hands and comb his hair
To tell him what he is to wear
To prepare him that he may always be good
And each day do the things he should"

"Whose child is this?" I asked again
As the door opened and someone came in
"Mine", said the teacher with the same tender smile
"Mine, to keep just for a little while
To teach him how to be gentle and kind
To train and direct his dear little mind
To help him live by every rule
And get the best he can from school"

"Whose child is this?" I ask once more
Just as the little one entered the door
"Ours" said the parent and the teacher as they smiled
And each took the hand of the little child
"Ours to love and train together
Ours this blessed task forever."

--Author Unknown

Very Nice :up:

[Devaclis]

Sorry for the rant guys. You know me well enough to know that I mean no harm. I DO really think that kids these days are basically given free reign. They are allowed to raise themselves. It is a regular "Lord of the Flies" scenario. You can't tell your child no, you can't spank your child, you cannot discipline your child in public. Since when did parents EVER let someone else decide how they can raise their own children?

Think about it. Watch modern parents with their kids in the store, at a restaurant, at the moves. Tell me something bad is not going to happen when those kids become adults. I would be a little scared if I were you.

[~Barn~]

Nice post Dirk. I have quite a few great memories of various sports teams and coaches growing up. Team sports, and individual sports, as they are pretty unique to one another.

It's a relationship that really is as close to "parenting", as you'll encounter in a school or afterschool setting. Even moreso than teaching in my opinion, because of the dynamics involved. Punishment, praise, dicipline, preparation, celebration, anguish... It's all just a lil' bit more intimate than what a typical student experiences in the classroom I think. Even if it is just due to a "numbers" difference.

And you nailed it... The good ones, and the ones who made a dent, are the ones that you look back at with fondness.

[Kristian]

It takes a village....

[~Barn~]

Will somebody please take the conch from Dana?

[Devaclis]

haha come and take it!!!!

[Suki]

You know most everyone is quick to jump on the teachers or the school board, directors of education, etc. Parents get pissed off when teachers don't inform them of what's going on, other's get pissed off when they inform them of every little thing. Parents rant and rave about how a school can create these new policies that no longer allow teachers to spank their kids, parents rant and rave that teachers shouldn't lay a finger on their kids.

to be quite honest, parents need to buck up and start being parents and working side by side with student/child and teacher, instead of expecting someone else to step in and take over. With all the trigger happy lawsuites, its no wonder that schools, teachers and everyone else have to take every little precaution or else they find themselves in a lawsuit.

I'm so sick of the cry baby attitude that most parents have, shut the fuck up and do something! Ohhh, my son/daughter had his/her feelings hurt, or didn't get the grade she/he deserved, well sit down and help them with their fucking homework, re-educate yourself on the new forms of learning that are damn sure way different than when you sat in a one room school building with ma and pa out in the fields.

Everywhere you look you find some assfuck trying to find a way to sue someone, and these fucktard kids that think it's so funny and cool to jump on the band wagon like their adult counterparts.

fuck those kids, fuck their parents and i hope that sorry fuck gets a broomstick up his ass!


/rant.

[Devaclis]

Wow, I live how you talk. You got a perty mouth girl. :)

[Suki]

oh and btw, yes your child is the fucking anti-christ, he's not cute and adorable, i want to stomp on his fucking head.

another thing, parents, when you're in the movie theater, and you precious little angel can't stop crying, REMOVE IT FROM THE SITTING AREA!!!! don't sit there and try and shhhhhhhush it for the next hour and a half, get off your chocolate covered raisin ass and tend to it.

And when you see your kid, kicking the back of someones seat, tell them to stop and if you can't then i will and dont fuckin eyeball me.

If your kid doesn't stop screaming at the grocery store, backhand him. simple solution. i will applaud you.

If your kid wants to throw himself down and have a tantrum good ol time, leave him and let him figure out where the lost and found is.

[Suki]

Wow, I live how you talk. You got a perty mouth girl. :)

bratty kids and pussy parents anger suki. :scream1:

[~Barn~]

That was only 7 f-bombs. You need a minimum of 10 to qualify for M.O.Y.

[Devaclis]

oh and btw, yes your child is the fucking anti-christ, he's not cute and adorable, i want to stomp on his fucking head.

another thing, parents, when you're in the movie theater, and you precious little angel can't stop crying, REMOVE IT FROM THE SITTING AREA!!!! don't sit there and try and shhhhhhhush it for the next hour and a half, get off your chocolate covered raisin ass and tend to it.

And when you see your kid, kicking the back of someones seat, tell them to stop and if you can't then i will and dont fuckin eyeball me.

If your kid doesn't stop screaming at the grocery store, backhand him. simple solution. i will applaud you.

If your kid wants to throw himself down and have a tantrum good ol time, leave him and let him figure out where the lost and found is.



^^^ Mary me?

[towneh]

As some of you know, I am a relief driver for the Dougy School District. Providing services for this current batch of young parents and their young charges is an amazing task. My best recourse is to remind the moms/dads/students that the trips will be shorter if they co-operate.
--short_bus/long_bus/tour_bus--
bus_henry:turtle:

[dirkterrell]

It's a relationship that really is as close to "parenting", as you'll encounter in a school or afterschool setting. Even moreso than teaching in my opinion, because of the dynamics involved. Punishment, praise, dicipline, preparation, celebration, anguish...

Yep, you get it, Brandon. One thing that I find particularly perplexing is the attitude in schools that kids shouldn't be allowed to "fail" at something and no one "wins." Hell, failure is part of life. It's how you react to failure that shows what kind of person you are. I tell the guys that they shouldn't be afraid of failure. Try it and if you fail, figure out why and what you need to improve on so that the next round brings success.

I fear we are raising a bunch of kids who have been made to feel like they are the greatest things since sliced bread and when they get turned loose in the world, they will be in for a world of disappointment. We are being irresponsible in setting them up for this disaster. Competition is good. Schools seem hell-bent on eliminating it.

Dirk

[mtnairlover]

Competition is good. Schools seem hell-bent on eliminating it.

Dirk

Yep, competition is good. And nope, school's are not trying to eliminate. Ask any administrator, teacher, para-pro, etc. what would make student success work and they'll tell ya, but again, we've all got to cow-tow to the higher ups...the people who write our paychecks.

Oh and one other thing about teams and competition. There is nothing written that says those who fail are expected to stay and play, they are eliminated by reason of not being able to play the game...not living up to standard. But, in an educational setting...everyone, and I mean everyone is expected to have a fair shot at learning and it's that idea that so many people seem to forget.

How do you make it fair for everyone? Think about it...show me, tell me where "everyone" is satisfied with the way children are being educated.

[dirkterrell]

Yep, competition is good. And nope, school's are not trying to eliminate. Ask any administrator, teacher, para-pro, etc. what would make student success work and they'll tell ya, but again, we've all got to cow-tow to the higher ups...the people who write our paychecks.


Well, my wife is a teacher and I get quite an earful about how there is so much emphasis on how carefully one has to talk to kids and not make them feel bad. And our responsibility, whether we be scientists, teachers, police, whatever, is to take the trust given to us and fight to do the best job for those we serve, not to cow-tow to those who write checks. If we know what has to be done, we have to speak loudly and boldly to those who would settle for less and who happen to hold the purse strings. I could never in good conscience work in an environment where I felt I had to compromise what was right to get a check (and I have put my money where my mouth was on many occasions).


Oh and one other thing about teams and competition. There is nothing written that says those who fail are expected to stay and play, they are eliminated by reason of not being able to play the game...not living up to standard. But, in an educational setting...everyone, and I mean everyone is expected to have a fair shot at learning and it's that idea that so many people seem to forget.


No one who wants to play and works to improve himself "fails" to make our team. I meant failure on the smaller scale like "didn't make a tackle" or "failed a test". Fair means given the same opportunity but not necessarily a guarantee of the same outcome. Enough hard work can overcome such failures.


How do you make it fair for everyone? Think about it...show me, tell me where "everyone" is satisfied with the way children are being educated.

You can never please everyone. It's like I tell the guys on the team: chase perfection. You will never catch it but if you chase it, you can achieve excellence. And excellence will take you a long way. Fair means that everyone is given a chance. Not all will take it and they will pay the price. That's the way life works.

Dirk

[Devaclis]

Man, you kids are even bing pretty PC about how you talk to each other on this subject. Shake it up a little!!!! You can't always be afraid of hurting someones feelings or of being rejected. Trust me, I lived the first 26 years of my life that way ;)

[mtnairlover]

By "purse strings" or writing the paycheck, I meant the public is ultimately our boss, because we teach in a public environment. I'd equate this job to that of one of a politician, cuz they do as much shmoozing and attempting to please all sectors as we do.

Reaching for the stars is what it's all about...however a child envisions that. And the job of a teacher is to aid each child in that goal.

I've gotten my fair share of "hard-knock" kids, but this year, the tougher kids seem to have innundated each class. I get my kids from area high schools, cuz I work in voc-ed. Voc-Ed is no longer what it was when you and I were in school. My classes are taught at the college level, and yet, I get kids who are part of the Special Education system. It's hard, because I'm supposed to give them a fair shot, but if they cannot do the work they cannot do the work...they are not employable after going through my class. That does a hell of a bad job for my numbers as far as CTE is concerned, because in order to get funding, I've got to prove my program's value. And if the kids going through my program can't make it in the work world, then my program is worthless. There is so much more to education than what the public sees and thinks is there, I could let it get to me, but ultimately, it's the kids that we're here for. Teachers do everything they can to make sure that the kids get that fair shot despite what gets thrown at them from all sides.

[dirkterrell]

Man, you kids are even bing pretty PC about how you talk to each other on this subject. Shake it up a little!!!! You can't always be afraid of hurting someones feelings or of being rejected. Trust me, I lived the first 26 years of my life that way ;)

I don't think I'm being particularly PC (if you're even referring to me :) ). But one doesn't have to speak disrespectfully to make a point either.

But you're an asshat anyway. http://www.boulder.swri.edu/%7Eterrell/images/goofy.gif

Dirk

[dirkterrell]

I have to run for now. We have a game today. Looking to extend our record to 7-0. But I'll check back in on this interesting thread later.

Dirk

[Devaclis]

I don't think I'm being particularly PC (if you're even referring to me :) ). But one doesn't have to speak disrespectfully to make a point either.

But you're an asshat anyway. http://www.boulder.swri.edu/%7Eterrell/images/goofy.gif

Dirk

hahaha I was only attempting to get a few more of the vociferous members in here. You speak too to eloquently for me to understand. And I mean that in the most disrespectful way possibe ;)

[Mental]

Man, you kids are even bing pretty PC about how you talk to each other on this subject. Shake it up a little!!!! You can't always be afraid of hurting someones feelings or of being rejected. Trust me, I lived the first 26 years of my life that way ;)

I think that comes from an mutual respect for the other person, their position and opinion. I can see how that would see foriegn to even the most hardcore poster on this board. It took me a little while myself to recognize it.

[Snowman]

I’m just wondering what the next thing these kids will be selling door to door.
Lets see I’ve been through the magazines, cookie dough, coupon books and candles. (and its only October.)
Well at least they will be well trained to sell AmWay.

[mtnairlover]

Ha! Yeah, that selling door-to-door shit, what's up with that? Seriously. 100 points to the person who can answer that question honestly.

[Devaclis]

My little sister is 17 years younger than me. I can see a MAJOR difference in the way she is raised by my parents. I can see how she is in school too. When she was too lazy to do her homework, they sent her to a Sylvan school. When she failed the 9th grade, they took away her TV but let her play on her computer and even take a vacation to NY that summer. When she almost failed 10th grade, they sent her to a Christian bible school. Instead of taking care of the problem, they blamed it on others and pushed the problem off on another institution.

I failed the 6th grade. I was forced to get a job doing dishes so I could pay for summer school. I worked from the age of 12. I have had my car taken away, been locked in my room for an entire weekend, been spanked by 3 or more principals, more than 5 teachers, and been to detention more times than I have been to the bathroom. But I NEVER repeated the same wrong that got me into ANY of those situations. My parents also sat and did homework with me. They attended all of my school events that they could. They came to my sports events. We hung out together a lot, like a family.

Do people do that anymore? Do they sit at a table every night and eat dinner together? Go for bike rides together on the weekends? Do kids even hug their parents good night anymore? I know my sister doesn't . I know my friends kids don't. I know most of my nieces and nephews do not.

[Suki]

The children really are our future, they will learn and grow up in this world where they see that adults no longer have the power to control them, to educate them, to discipline them, to guide them, to direct them, and they will learn that they can sue sue sue every last one of us.

they're everywhere, in every city and town, like a plague or a virus they infect our lively hood and become mini clones of what we are and they learn at rapid speed.

one day, Malakai himself will emerge from the corn fields and they will all unite. and we will be doomed. :cry:

[Devaclis]

I just hope all of the children of the future are no asian.

[Devaclis]

http://www.impawards.com/1984/posters/children_of_the_corn.jpg

[~Barn~]

Isn't your sister smokin' gorgeous though Dana? Who cares if she wasn't all National Honor Society, and maybe had to retake Algebra a couple times. If you can be a "player's wife", you're golden.

Eww.... I shouldn't have brought up pro sports, should I?



<----- Great student, and proud recipient of many a paddling.

[Devaclis]

Umm, yeah, she is pretty hot. She is a redhead, a model, a cheerleader, a championship winning rodeo rider and horse trainer, and kick ass country girl. and she just turned 18.

Ask Terri :)

Now for the disclaimer:

Sortarican, Mista Black, Vance, Puckster - Stay the fuck away from my sister :)

[mtnairlover]

I failed the 6th grade. I was forced to get a job doing dishes so I could pay for summer school. I worked from the age of 12. I have had my car taken away, been locked in my room for an entire weekend, been spanked by 3 or more principals, more than 5 teachers, and been to detention more times than I have been to the bathroom. But I NEVER repeated the same wrong that got me into ANY of those situations. My parents also sat and did homework with me. They attended all of my school events that they could. They came to my sports events. We hung out together a lot, like a family.


I wish I had your upbringing. I almost had that until my parents divorced when I was 10 because of my mother's alcoholism. My Dad thought it was his fault so he left us with her. My adolescence was hell. I came this close to dropping out of 9th grade cuz I missed a third of that year. I was passed, because for some odd reason, the school's admin and a few teachers saw something in me that I had no clue existed at the time. I was put down constantly and not just by my mother, by a few other teachers, by the police, by my other relatives who were my Dad and grandmother, cuz both parents are only children. I ditched, got high, drank, hung out with the wrong people...people with criminal records.

What got me back? What made me want to do something with my life?

That is something that is missing in a lot of people these days.

I wanted more for my life and my future and I wanted it so bad, I could taste it...not always, but it was there enough to push me back from the edge. I fought like none-other to get what I wanted despite the nay-sayers.

Now? I have a grad degree and am teaching children how to take the bull by the horns and make something of their lives despite the shit that gets thrown their way.

[Suki]

I just hope all of the children of the future are no asian.

or pollacks, yucky!

[~Barn~]

So on and so forth...

I am clearly going in the wrong direction.
:lol:

[Kristian]

I have to run for now. We have a game today. Looking to extend our record to 7-0. But I'll check back in on this interesting thread later.

Dirk


Make sure everyone gets a trophy!

[Scribbler]

My younger son's sophomore year in HS was hell for me...

My ex-wife had pretty much given up trying to motivate him, so we agreed that he would move back in with me (I had been wanting custody back for many years in any case). I quickly discovered he, and the cronies he called friends, had all pretty much decided they just didn't like school. He would cut classes on a regular basis, wouldn't do his homework (under the lie that he didn't have any), and couldn't think about anything other than what he could be doing to have fun and screw off.

Doing my job as a parent, my methods of monitoring and aiding his performance was a LOT of work. It started simple enough, having to check with his teachers on a daily basis to get his homework assignments, calling the school on a daily basis to ensure he was actually in class, even having to take time out of my workday to go combing the local hangouts to see catch him screwing off (when the school reported he wasn't in class). I'd Sit down with him and watch him do all of his homework every single day and check it over myself... but then he wouldn't even turn it in the next day! WTF!! I would personally drop him off at the front door of school every morning, and pick him up after school, however it was apparent that the moment I pulled out of the parking lot, he would just turn around and leave.

The progressive disciplinary actions wouldn't do much. I say progressive because I started out taking it easy on him, then gradually upped the ante if he didn't comply. Eventually it progressed to the point that he was never allowed to leave the house except for school. No TV, no computer, no xbox etc... his life was pretty much a boring living hell by this point. And yet STILL he was so stubborn (blaming me for being the bad guy) that instead of making his life better by actually doing the right thing, he'd just knuckle down and take whatever punishment was handed down.

Close to giving up all hope, I went to his high school and sat down with the principal, and his counselor, begging for some form of help... what a mistake that was. Their idea of help was having my son sit down with all of us and sign a 'contract' which stated if he doesn't comply by certain provisions, he'd be kicked out of school. I wanted to scream "Are you fucking kidding me? You're offering him an open lane to get exactly what he wants?" So the school was obviously no help.

Things got progressively worse from there. Finally what ultimately happened, was that my son decided he was too miserable living with me, so wanted to move back with his mother. My ex however, seeing what I was dealing with, told him "no way." At this point (in his 3rd year of HS, and second as a sophomore) he is SO miserable, he finally starts to apply himself and do better. However not without some noticeable emotional trauma.

I would like to be able to fault the schools (as my earlier experience shows I was angry with them), however I can also recognize that there was absolutely nothing the schools could do. They have had so much authority taken away from them that over a childs career in school, many never learn the discipline to apply themselves. So much so, by the time they are in high school, it's a veritable nightmare.

I am happy today that he is now a senior this year and will graduate. It'll be interesting getting him through college because the past pretty much destroyed any shot at a real scholarship. I never once laid a hand on him or resorted to physical punishment (in HS he's a bit old for a spankin).

However, I am truly upset to this day that any student who gets it into their head that they simply don't want to go to school (and there are a lot of them), won't receive any real support from the school system to encourage or keep them there.

[pilot]

Wow. I have read every reply to this thread and I want to say that I am very proud of all of you. Even Suki, for she showed us the deeper side of our frustrations and how some of us feel just walking through the store or sitting at the movies.

I have the utmost respect for teachers, educators and the like. I'm not a traditional teacher but I have worked with many folks, young and old alike, teaching things from scuba diving, mountaineering and now motorcycling to name a few. Each student was a challenge and a pleasure to see them work at succeeding. No, not everyone finished first and heck, some didn't even finish.

Outside my window I can hear kids playing hide-and-seek. Some things never change.

May God bless you all, especially the meek.

Oh, and Dana, thanks for not including me on the "hit list" for your sister.

[Devaclis]

hahaha no worries man :)

[BigE]

Here's something else to chew on. My wife teaches at two preschools, both places she teaches the 2's class. First place is at our church's preschool, everything is all fine there, the second place is where our oldest two went and is a secular school with parent helpers in the class. Well she got written up at the second school for saying such rude and horrible things like "love ya, see you next week" and because she "passes off" the kids who are criers to the parent helper or teaching asst. and doesn't greet the parents enough. Now here's the thing if she's s'posed to take care of the kids that are crying, how's she s'posed to greet each parent??? The other side to this is at the church, crying kids are set in the "crying chair" and have to stay there until they are done fussing. Hmm, wouldn't ya know it but most the kids sit about 30 seconds, calm down and go play.

[dirkterrell]

By "purse strings" or writing the paycheck, I meant the public is ultimately our boss, because we teach in a public environment. I'd equate this job to that of one of a politician, cuz they do as much shmoozing and attempting to please all sectors as we do.


I think politicians and teachers are in no way comparable in terms of how they should view their relationship with the public. Pleasing as many as possible is the job of a politician. The job of a teacher is to teach students, not necessarily please the public. If you do the former, the latter will inevitably happen but there may be initial resistance to your approach. Teachers/administrators/etc as a group should fight relentlessly for what is right, not what is popular. The results will speak for themselves. The current approach of trying to please everyone is not working so well. And this crazy, feel-good approach of mixing students of vastly different levels should be dumped. It serves neither the advanced nor the remedial students.


Reaching for the stars is what it's all about...however a child envisions that. And the job of a teacher is to aid each child in that goal.


I taught for ten years at the university level, mainly introductory physical science classes for non-science majors. I enjoyed those the most because the vast majority of the students were there because they had to be there, not because they wanted to be (and I always asked for a show of hands at the beginning of the year). Most were dreading the course. By the end of the semester they were asking me what course I was teaching next semester that they could take. Why? They enjoyed the class because I taught them what science really was, the way of satisfying that natural curiosity about the Universe, not the boring "memorize these facts and regurgitate them back on a test." And your point about aiding each child is right on the mark. Students have many different ways of learning and as teachers, we have to find that thing that makes it click for each one. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that when you see that click happen, it is very satisfying and fuels our passion for teaching.


I've gotten my fair share of "hard-knock" kids, but this year, the tougher kids seem to have innundated each class. I get my kids from area high schools, cuz I work in voc-ed. Voc-Ed is no longer what it was when you and I were in school. My classes are taught at the college level, and yet, I get kids who are part of the Special Education system. It's hard, because I'm supposed to give them a fair shot, but if they cannot do the work they cannot do the work...they are not employable after going through my class. That does a hell of a bad job for my numbers as far as CTE is concerned, because in order to get funding, I've got to prove my program's value. And if the kids going through my program can't make it in the work world, then my program is worthless. There is so much more to education than what the public sees and thinks is there, I could let it get to me, but ultimately, it's the kids that we're here for. Teachers do everything they can to make sure that the kids get that fair shot despite what gets thrown at them from all sides.

Yes, this brings up the point that people tend to want to find "the" answer to complex problems. It's the teachers. It's the students. It's the parents. It's lack of funding, etc. But the answer to a complex problem is rarely simple. It is easy to point fingers. Finding the solution is much harder and may involve uncomfortable realizations like "my little Johnny isn't an angel at school like I think" or "I'm not really qualified to teach this class and need to work on those qualifications" etc. Funding is certainly part of it. I could teach science at a public school but I make three times as much as a research scientist. I hear whining all the time about the lack of qualified science teachers in public schools. There are many, many talented scientists who would teach if it were economically viable. The answer to improving public education will require all of the involved parties to assess their strengths and weaknesses. Finding that answer will take leadership from the political arena, something that is sadly lacking these days mainly, I think, because of the petty bickering that people on both sides of the aisle seem to enjoy. And I'm not just talking about politicians. I'm also talking the public, where it seems so in vogue to viciously attack people who have different political ideals, rather than try to reach a compromise that benefits all.

Dirk

[Mental]

My younger son's sophomore year in HS was hell for me... (editied for length)
Dude, good on ya. I moved in with my Dad when I was 15. He made it abundantly clear that it was a one way trip. The big fad at the time was the tough love scenarios where you lock the kid out of the house until they comply. My Dad also made it clear there would be none of that. He was not going to quit and not giving up and that the only person that would yeild was me. I did not take it to the extremes you had to face, but damm close. He taught himself Algebra to check my homework. I never did do well in Math, but the seeds he planted ultimatly proved fruitful. I cursed his every action when I was 16, but now at 36 I thank god everyday for his stubborness. I can only imagine your exhaustedness, but you did the right thing, and I swear one day he will be happy you did.

The good news is, as much as I detested Hight School, I did very well in college, and I was not alone. many struggling high schol students actually respond well to a less structutre "you're on your own" enviroment. Especially when they are the ones paying for it.

[pilot]

The holidays are coming up. Time to remember to give that extra special thanks to those that earned it: Teachers, parents, tutors, administrators, your neighbor, and yes, even the kids that did their best.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

The holidays are coming up. Time to remember to give that extra special thanks to those that earned it: Teachers, parents, tutors, administrators, your neighbor, and yes, even the kids that did their best.
I think I'll give thanks to my Total Control Instructor......:)

Hope to see ya this Sat man! Now, if I could only come up with a costume.....