Jefferson County Court.. HELP!

[Shortcake]

So I have to appear in court next week because I refuse to take the "Careless Driving" I recieved when I crahsed. I was not speeding and all of you who have ever seen me ride know I am anything but careless on that bike. No one else nor their property was involved or damaged... only my ego and my pretty blue bike.
I, being an innocent soul, have never been to court and have no idea what to expect or say. I tried calling the DA's office and they are of no help.
Anyone?Anyone?

[pilot]

I think it would start out with, "Dear DA, I really screwed up missing my class. When is the next class that I can take to make up for it?"

Now some would say--never admit guilt.

Others would say--own up to it.

[Bueller]

You could plead no contest and then you will be given a chance to make a statement to the Judge explaining your side of it.

[Vance]

So I have to appear in court next week because I refuse to take the "Careless Driving" I recieved when I crahsed. I was not speeding and all of you who have ever seen me ride know I am anything but careless on that bike. No one else nor their property was involved or damaged... only my ego and my pretty blue bike.
I, being an innocent soul, have never been to court and have no idea what to expect or say. I tried calling the DA's office and they are of no help.
Anyone?Anyone?

Jeanna - best defense is to know the law, know the definition of "Careless Driving" - and how it applies to the ticket they gave you.

If you can beat the charge down by arguing careless driving was an inapropriate ticket given the circumstances of the situation you stand a descent chance of getting it reduced - or possibly eliminated if you take it to hearing and make the officer defend his or her position.

Best way to get a ticket eliminated when you don't believe it to be true is to fight it in court where the officer has to appear. If he doesn't - no ticket. Its thrown out. Good way to be sure he doesn't show - is to try to find out his schedule - then - schedule the hearing date for a day he's off work. If he's on duty - they'll give him the time off to go to the hearing. If he's off duty - more likely he won't bother going. Not a guarantee - but better odds in your favor.

PM the details if you'd like - I can help you research a bit too.

[Sully]

How can they give you a "careless driving" when they didn't witness you doing it ? For all they know, it was upright on the kickstand and fell over in the dirt/sand... :lol:.. Bring your witness to state that you are a new rider and in no way were you riding careless.. ?..

Just curious, how much is the class ?

[Shortcake]

What class do you speak of?

[RYBO]

I couldn't agree more with Vance. On your ticket should be the number of the EXACT statute you were cited against. You should be able to find that statute simply by searching on Google and seeing exactly what it says.

Your situation is bolstered by the fact that all other factors point to you being a CAREFUL motorcyclist. You've taken classes, utilized off street environments to increase your skills, wear all the proper gear when you ride and had a motorcycle that was in good condition at the time of the crash. Use these facts to reinforce your position that what you were doing was far from careless.

I disagree with pleading "no contest", it's essentailly a guilty plea and you will end up with a ticket for using it. As I see it you have a couple of other options, starting with continuing to call the DA office until you get the answers you need. If your intention is to walk away without any ticket, then you will need to plea "not guilty".

When is your scheduled court date?

Scott

[Shortcake]

My court date is next week already. 12/4 @ 1:15pm.
I am not terribly concerned with walking away with nothing, I just absolutely will not agree to careless. Ill give them their money...

[konichd]

DO NOT ADMIT GUILT!

I will be there as I witness (I guess) and do some research like Vance stated. State what colorado law states as "careless" and make a case as to why this definition was wrongly issued in your case. State you have taken the MSF course, track days for rider training, you were riding a Kawasaki that was maintained to the upmost standards for a 2-wheel road machine.

Also find the cop that actually "witnessed" the accident but didn't write the report since it was "out of his jurisdiction." He can testify your were under the speed limit, road conditions, etc.

You might not get off totally, but a ticket for "improper license plate mounting" or some other vehicle deficiency.

[Xtremjeepn]

.... "Careless Driving" I recieved when I crahsed.



Here is the state statute for you. I highlighted the key elements for you.



42-4-1402. Carelessdriving - penalty. (http://www2.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-frame.htm&l=query&iid=18c947a4.3815655e.0.0&q=%5BGroup%20%2742-4-1402%27%5D)

Statute text

(1) Any person who drives any motor vehicle, bicycle, or motorized bicycle in a careless and imprudent manner, without due regard for the width, grade, curves, corners, traffic, and use of the streets and highways and all other attendant circumstances, is guilty of careless driving.

A person convicted of careless driving of a bicycle or motorized bicycle shall not be subject to the provisions of section 42-2-127 (http://www2.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-frame.htm&l=jump&iid=COCODE&d=42-2-127&sid=18c947a4.3815655e.0.0#JD_42-2-127).
(2) Any person who violates any provision of this section commits a class 2 misdemeanor traffic offense, but, if the person's actions are the proximate cause of bodily injury or death to another, such person commits a class 1 misdemeanor traffic offense.
Annotations

Cross references: For provision that the operation of vehicles and the movement of pedestrians pursuant to this section apply upon streets and highways and elsewhere throughout the state, see § 42-4-103 (http://www2.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-frame.htm&l=jump&iid=COCODE&d=42-4-103&sid=18c947a4.3815655e.0.0#JD_42-4-103) (2)(b).

[konichd]

Fuck it, just do what you crazy girls always do.....cry your ass off :cry:

Oh ya, get the 5th off since you'll be in jail :)

[Devaclis]

Phase 1 - Borrow gun

Phase 2 - Shoot DK

Phase 3 - Enjoy the rest of your life

[Sortarican]

My court date is next week already. 12/4 @ 1:15pm.
I am not terribly concerned with walking away with nothing, I just absolutely will not agree to careless. Ill give them their money...

See what the DA offers as a plea bargain.

If you're going to plead not guilty and go to court, check if trial by jury is available for the charge.
(A lot of traffic offenses aren't eligable for jury trial.)

If it is, request a jury trial at the time of your plea.
(Must be done with your plea. Default is trial by court/judge.)
Always easier to convince your fellow citizens it's a bogus charge than convincing a judge.

If it's trial by the court it's really hard to convince a judge to rule not guilty without a lawyer.

[konichd]

Shoot this! :)

[Sully]

What class do you speak of?

:oops:.. I misread... I will go back to work now..

oh and I know lots of people who can loan you a gun... ;)

[Shortcake]

So far the crying thing sounds the most realistic. haha
ok.. so not guilty, and a jury please. I'll do some research and I have my layer, Rybo, on the horn with me already.
Maybe I should wear my nurse scrubs when I go. :slappers:

[Sully]

uhm.. maybe the nurse dress would work better... :eyebrows:

[Sortarican]

... you were riding a Kawasaki ........

There's your defense.
In the case of The United States of America v. DK No. 04-433.
Argued March 27, 2006--Decided June 5, 2006
The U.S supreme court upheld a lower court ruling that not only do Kawi's suck,
but additionally, DK sucks to a degree 100 times that of the avarage Kawi rider.

[salsashark]

So far the crying thing sounds the most realistic. haha
ok.. so not guilty, and a jury please. I'll do some research and I have my layer, Rybo, on the horn with me already.
Maybe I should wear my nurse scrubs when I go. :slappers:

Maybe you should hang up with him and get a lawyer on the phone... DOH! :lol:

[konichd]

Where's Mushman39? :dunno:

[Devaclis]

He is thinking of a way to belittle you for assuming you know the law when you really don't.

[Cat118!]

they will hopefully offer you a lesser charge anyway as a plea bargin.
But I never been in for reckless... but speeding or what not they will always give me a lesser offense :shrug:

[lovinCO]

Jeanna, listen to the women, we have the REAL advice for you!

You have nothing to worry about. Consult the lawyers and bring them with you, but here is what will happen to you.

If you have a clean driving record and show up as a well-dressed, polite young woman (which I'm sure you are), the DA will offer you a lesser charge plea deal on the spot. Could be as low as a 2 pt. ticket for "broken tail light" kind of thing. Which still sucks because it drives up your insurance for a while, but I believe that's the worst you'll get.

That has been my experience when I had to appear in court for a ticket. Remember: well-dressed, attractive and polite. You'll be surrounded by badly dressed rude people who are fighting with the DA and judge. You will shine in comparison and they will help you out and give you a big break. I promise that's how it will go. :)

[Shortcake]

Lesser offense would be perfect. It sounds so dumb, but this is all for the principle. I was sooo offended by a "careless". I am so careful on that bike and I am scared to death of it.
They can call it anything they want and take my money... I'll be happy.

I just put a call into the deputy that actually witnessed the accident to see what he wrote in his report, hopefully I'll hear back from him soon.
Thanks for your help everyone!!!!!!!

[Vance]

For the record - I managed to argue mine with the junior assistant wannabe DA down from the 8 pt and whatever fine down to a 3 point and $47 fine after an hour of arguing with him about the definition comparative to what the state patrol had written in the ticket.

"Redefining" the ticket accurately first THEN arguing AGAIN for a plea bargain - saved my license since I was already down to only 6 points left when I got the ticket in the first place.

And this WAS on my bike... and I was REALLY doing bad bad things (I was chasing this uber-cute redhead in a Mini Cooper and we were sort of playing lane-tag with each other for a bit in traffic... that is until this cop sort of took offense to us doing this down I-25 :lol: )... anyway... I was a BAD BAD boy - and I still got it argued down. Its totally possible if you go in there armed with information and the right attitude that you didn't do anything wrong (or at least not as wrong as they claim you did).

The only reason I didn't bother with a trial is ummm... I couldn't exactly have the officer who pulled me over come to hearing. She'd probably have been upset by that. :oops:

[rforsythe]

I guess it would help to know why you crashed in the first place...

[Shortcake]

I guess it would help to know why you crashed in the first place...


I honestly have no idea what happened Ralph.... Is that going to look bad??

[Vance]

I honestly have no idea what happened Ralph.... Is that going to look bad??

I'd go with the "lowside" from hitting a patch of gravel you didn't see until it was too late angle. Blame their road maintenance and cleaning crew! ;)

[Pharmgirl]

If Ken can get his 12 point ticket by a JeffCo sherriff reduced to 6 just for showing up (and they dropped his failure to register ticket), you should have no problem.

[wulf]

Just showing up will get it reduced. Also in most counties they allow the officers to appear by phone to the court dates.

[Sully]

I have a halo if you would like to borrow it.. :angel:

[puckstr]

Phase 1 - Borrow gun

Phase 2 - Shoot DK

Phase 3 - Enjoy the rest of your life

+1:)

[pilot]

I honestly have no idea what happened Ralph.... Is that going to look bad??

I'm not going to "answer" for Ralph. I'm just taking a moment to expound on "having no idea what happened" as that may relate to definitions from Webster's dictionary.

Careful: Acting with care; done with care. Cautious, discreet, wary. Careful means taking pains or being alert under any circumstances; cautious means being alert or on guard against danger; wary implies expectation of danger; discreet means careful in speech and conduct.
The antonyms are careless, negligent.

I'm no attorney,etc, but the court's agents duty, I believe, is to prove you were "beyond" a reasonable doubt careless.

If you can walk in and look them straight in the face honestly and say "I was "careful", and thus should not be guilty.", then, at least in your heart you will have done the right thing.

Playing games with the dates and times and the officer(s) schedules?, is that sincere? Or would there be a reason to try and keep them away-- as in they may demonstrate proof of carelessness?

Demonstrable proof that the issue was in no way your cause (other than just being there) may go a long way to proving your position. I suppose If one really wanted to play games, then someone, say DK, could stand up in court and say, "Mr. DA or your Honor, in no way was it the fault of Shortcake. As, I, DK, was driving in a reckless and negligent manner and thus in my attempt to pass her at a speed beyond the posted limit and with due disregard for safety, I caused her to take evasive action which resulted in her loss of control. I am the guilty one, it I who should suffer the consequences!". And then scream KAWASAKI RULES! as they take you away in shackles. Very Perry Mason if I say so myself.

Of note: It is not like "they" aren't watching this board. Recently a rider was provided with information from an officer in Jeffco that he said he saw on this site. And as a side note, TWIMC, consider that wisely with when and what you post. Think about it, if you the reader/poster has time available at your job to "post up", what is to say that government agencies can not claim that they are doing case research and get paid to read what you post? Granted, information taken from the internet cannot be deemed as wholly reliable. Hearsay, at best, and thus inadmissible.

Question: If you had taken the class would that have been an admission of guilt, or could you have used it in your argument to demonstrate that even with the information taught in the class that you would not have been able to avoid the motorcycle's loss of uprightness?

Enough jail house law. Hire an attorney if you feel you can not proceed well enough on your own.

The preceding has just been my opinion and in no way am I suggesting legal advice.

[rforsythe]

I honestly have no idea what happened Ralph.... Is that going to look bad??

Not sure. I was more or less just curious about the circumstances surrounding the crash. Could just be as simple as target fixation or even a cold tire on cold pavement, neither of which I would deem as careless - just "inexperience".


Of note: It is not like "they" aren't watching this board. Recently a rider was provided with information from an officer in Jeffco that he said he saw on this site.

Really? Can you expand on that a bit (even in PM)?

And as a side note, TWIMC, consider that wisely with when and what you post. Think about it, if you the reader/poster has time available at your job to "post up", what is to say that government agencies can not claim that they are doing case research and get paid to read what you post? Granted, information taken from the internet cannot be deemed as wholly reliable. Hearsay, at best, and thus inadmissible.


Internet postings are hearsay yes - and can't be used as direct evidence, admissible in court. However they most certainly can affect the judgment or opinion of one who is deciding your fate. A polygraph isn't allowable as court evidence either, but results from those most definitely have influence on decisions made.

It doesn't sound like she admitted any wrong-doing in this thread. To me it sounds like nothing more than a new, inexperienced rider trying to do everything right, who just ended up doing "something" wrong anyway. That is a far cry from a rider intentionally riding in a manner that exceeds their abilities or the environment, riding w/o any safety gear, etc.

[pilot]

PM to be sent.

[clustermagnet]

dress up slutty
:bow:

[pilot]

dress up slutty
:bow:and then we can have a "jail bird" party afterwards. By invitation only: One must have at least been summoned to court in the past year. One guest per criminal. Get up can be period wear: Bonnie and Clyde, Soprano's, Hawaii 5-0, cops and robbers, James Bond, etc. Male criminals must be accompanied by at least one female guest. We can even have mock trial games and humorous sentencing--"The court orders you to drink x-drinks."

[motorcycleman]

Jeffco County?

1. What were you doing riding in Jeffco County?
(I would rather live/ride in 5 points)

2. Did you to hire an attorney yet?
(worth every penney)

3. What were you doing riding in Jeffco County?
(I would rather live/ride in 5 points)

4. Did you to hire an attorney yet?
(worth every penney)

to summarize:

Any DA "usually" plea bargains...... not at the Death Star errrrrrr Taj Mahal... aka Jeffco Cathouse.......

Darth Vader errr The DA there will take the fillings out of your teeth, smelt it down and sell it on the precious metals market....and "then" comes the fines and community service......

Do you have life insurance?

You need to hire some like Walter Gerash or Scott Robinson.....

outstanding attorneys....

[teamhypoxia]

I always take a BFF (Big F'n Folder) full of essentially nothing but with a few things on top like pictures, printed out statutes and the like. My theory is it makes trying my case appear to be a giant pain in the ass and you can usually count on most people's natural tendency to take the path of least resistance. It seems to have worked for me so far. YMMV