The Colorado Springs Speed Enforcement Money Machine

[Lee]

Colorado Springs is going through its latest budget crisis. From an article in the Gazette (the local newspaper) regarding the results of a City Council budget cutting meeting:

"Courts: Citizens who attend hearings or trials in municipal court will pay a $20 court fee next year. That $5 increase from 2005 is expected to raise $200,000."

Doing the math, the City is counting on the additional revenues of $5 per court appearance from 40,000 annual traffic citations. That doesn't count the cititations that people respond to by mail rather than appear in court.

40,000 citations/365 days/1 year ~ 110 traffic citations per day (average) in this little town.

I am in the wrong business and profession. In my next life, I'm going to get my own city, hire a lot of traffic enforcement police officers, and sit back and let the money role in.

Lee

[Vance]

And police forces STILL maintain there are no such things as quotas for issuing tickets???
Amazing

[Mista Black]

the solution is simple. the people have the power here. if everyone (and it would likely take just about everyone) in the USA obeyed all traffic laws constantly for 6 months, i'm sure that would be enough to bankrupt quite a few city governments and a ton of cops would lose their jobs. less cops=less enforcement=less tickets.

this will never happen of course but i bet it'd work in most areas.

i had no idea that the Springs was writing that amount of tickets though... that's just crazy.

[R1chie]

Yep the city and state wants moe money.

I guess there has been a string of car thefts in which people would leave car running and they would be stole or joy ridden. When presented to the city government and law enforcement, they instead of trying to punish criminal or bring them to justice, they decided they would fine anyone who left their car running.

Problem solved and the city makes even moe money.

Also to generate even more money, police are now enforcing laws they have not enforce for some time, but because the revenue generating machine needs moe money then are now enforcing fining people with cracked windshields and other safety violations.

Hold on they are going find ways of getting even moe money.

http://www.chieftain.com/metro/1132996585/14

[-PUCK-]

:? Increase to $20 per person??? It's already $25 for court costs everytime you go in for a ticket. I should know, just went through that crap a couple of weeks ago .

[Lee]

:? Increase to $20 per person??? It's already $25 for court costs everytime you go in for a ticket. I should know, just went through that crap a couple of weeks ago .

I'll take your word for it.

Experience is more valuable than reading about something. I was only quoting what I read in the newspaper. Maybe the increase was from $20 to $25. The newspaper did say the increase was $5.

Lee

[The GECCO]

the solution is simple. the people have the power here. if everyone (and it would likely take just about everyone) in the USA obeyed all traffic laws constantly for 6 months, i'm sure that would be enough to bankrupt quite a few city governments and a ton of cops would lose their jobs. less cops=less enforcement=less tickets.

this will never happen of course but i bet it'd work in most areas.


Bad solution....why give in and obey traffic laws and speed limits that are mainly in place for the purpose of generating revenue?? If you REALLY want to stop the "revenue tickets" from being issued, make it non profitable for the city to issue them.

How? The NMA (National Motorist Association) advocates going to court for EVERY ticket. Think about it, they are writing 110 tickets per day....right now the vast majority of those people just pay the fine (could almost be called a "tax") and go on with their lives. But, if EVERY ONE of them went to court on their assigned date instead, the system would be so flooded that the judges and the city administrators would tell the police to stop writing so many pointless tickets and just go after the truly dangerous offences.

Of course, THIS will never happen either, but it's the solution that would actually BENEFIT us.


i had no idea that the Springs was writing that amount of tickets though... that's just crazy.

If you do the math, that isn't very many....the springs has between 360,000 and 380,000 residents, so every day they write a ticket to about .000297% of the population. There are about 650 sworn officers in the springs, lets say only half of them are assigned to patrol (a generous assumption) and that only half of those work on a given day (another generous assumption). This means that only 67% of the officers on duty on any given day even write a SINGLE ticket. Hardly excessive, IMHO.

[The GECCO]

Another issue....SOMEDAY, someone is going to take the time and spend the money to actually challenge the idea of "court costs" in general. The criminal justice system and the ability of a US citizen to use it in order to defend himself against an accusation by the government is something that should be provided free of charge. Think about how absurd it sounds:

"Joe Citizen, the City of Colorado Springs (or any other agency) is accusing you of a crime. You can either admit guilt and pay the fine, or you can go to court and (heaven forbid) actually force us to PROVE you are guilty. Of course, if you choose to defend yourself we are going to charge you 'court costs', even if you prevail and are found innocent."

What a racket....

[R1chie]

Bad solution....why give in and obey traffic laws and speed limits that are mainly in place for the purpose of generating revenue?? If you REALLY want to stop the "revenue tickets" from being issued, make it non profitable for the city to issue them.



I don't know if that will work. They just think up ways to fix this problem.

In Manitou springs, I got a ticket. They told me I had to be there at 9:00 in the morning to fight it. That is when you talk to the DA. I waited there until near 6pm before they even got to me. People would wait for a half an hour or so and then walk down the hall and pay the ticket.

If no one pays the ticket, the judge and DA seemed to be prepared to stay as long as it took.

They use indirect persuasion. They make it convenient to pay the ticket and very inconvenient to go to court.

If they are really trying just to make money and not enforce safety, you are toast unless you are willing to wait forever, and to take your ticket to court is really the only recourse we have. Could I have complained, I suppose, but to who and what good would it do? It would only take up more of my precious time. Which seems is how they discourage you from fighting a ticket anyway. And it seems you end up paying court cost anyway, so is it worth it? Which is why most pay the ticket anyway, and most people are guilty or the cop would not have written the ticket in the first place (in the majority of cases). Those who are truly innocent are usually the only ones willing to fight the system anyway.

[Sparker]

luckily i havnt given co springs cops any money in about 2 years!! im happy bout that

[Mista Black]

actually you are happy "about" that.... :lol:

[Lee]

There are about 650 sworn officers in the springs, lets say only half of them are assigned to patrol (a generous assumption) and that only half of those work on a given day (another generous assumption). This means that only 67% of the officers on duty on any given day even write a SINGLE ticket. Hardly excessive, IMHO.

Sometime in the Spring of 2005, the Gazette (local newspaper) wrote an article about how the City of Colorado Springs was hiring (exactly) 100 additional full time officers for the sole purpose of traffic law enforcement. This was to bring to total number of full time officers to somewhere over 900 (can't remember exactly). That doesn't count police reserve and volunteer officers. The article went on to say that the additional officers were expected to generate enough additional revenue to pay for all their salaries, equipment, vehicles, uniforms, training, and still produce a net annual profit of $1,200,000 for the City.

I have traveled all over the United States on business. I have lived in several places. I have never seen the level of speed enforcement that I see in Colorado Springs. I am singling out speed enforcement because my wife and I see citizens break all sorts of traffic laws on a daily basis and the 2 offenses that are singled out are speeding and red light/stop sign running. The latter 2 are serious; they kill people. Speeding? It's a myth that speed kills. It makes a crash worse but people speed all the time and it's not fatal. I've been doing it for years.

The City lowering the unposted speed limit to 25 mph for safety reasons was nothing more than a ploy to increase revenue. At that point, I lost respect for the City government and law enforcement in this town. It's an insult to everyone's intelligence to be told that all of this is for our safety. It's for the money, plain and simple.

In my opinion, and I've driven all over the country, from coast to coast, Colorado Springs has the most dangerous drivers I have ever seen. Every bad driving habit you can imagine is actively manifested in this City (Is it the altitude or the water?) on a daily basis, and speed has nothing to do with it.

Speed enforcement is relatively easy, it makes money, lots of money, and it's a continuing source of revenue. I am disgusted by it, not because of the enforcement itself, but because of the legal slight of hand it is, told to us as a safety issue, but nothing more than a revenue generator. It is an insult to the intelligence of everyone in this town.

My disgust for the government of the City of Colorado Springs knows no bounds.

Lee

[Mista Black]

Speeding? It's a myth that speed kills.

it's not a myth at all. it's a complete lie.

and i agree 100% it's just for the $$$. if they want to stop speeding it's easy. instead of a $10/mile per hour fine in the Springs, let's raise it to $500/mile per hour fine in the Springs. how many $8000 tickets (that's 16 over) would a guys best buddy (not even him but his friend) have to get before he slowed down himself. not too damned many. but if they did that almost no one would speed and there'd be no income from ticketing speeders. they can't have that.

there was a guy in germany recently who got a $20,000 fine for tail gating someone. i'm willing to bet he (and everyone he knows) will NEVER tail gate anyone in germany again.

[Sparker]

bout

[PharmerKyle]

I withdraw my nomination for RAGrote for SoCo moderator.

I wish to nominate Lee for moderator instead!

... unless Brizz is coming back anyday soon.

[Bueller]

I withdraw my nomination for RAGrote for SoCo moderator. I wish to nominate Lee for moderator instead! :makeout:

[~Barn~]

This is the deepest talent pool to date!

[Lee]

Speeding? It's a myth that speed kills.

it's not a myth at all. it's a complete lie.

and i agree 100% it's just for the $$$. if they want to stop speeding it's easy. instead of a $10/mile per hour fine in the Springs, let's raise it to $500/mile per hour fine in the Springs. how many $8000 tickets (that's 16 over) would a guys best buddy (not even him but his friend) have to get before he slowed down himself. not too damned many. but if they did that almost no one would speed and there'd be no income from ticketing speeders. they can't have that.

there was a guy in germany recently who got a $20,000 fine for tail gating someone. i'm willing to bet he (and everyone he knows) will NEVER tail gate anyone in germany again.

Your points are good ones. The City doesn't want to prevent people from driving. Like a good parasite, it doesn't want to kill its host.

The City always offers a reduction in points and a non-moving offense as part of a deal. But, the deal never includes a reduction in the fine because by City statute, the presiding judge is forbidden to reduce it. I know this because a judge sitting in his court room told me this. And that way, your license won't be revoked; your insurance premiums won't be so high that you can't afford to drive.

It's all about keeping a steady stream of revenue coming in.

Lee

[Mac020]

I'll just warm my car in the garage from now on! :321:

[R1chie]

there was a guy in germany recently who got a $20,000 fine for tail gating someone. i'm willing to bet he (and everyone he knows) will NEVER tail gate anyone in germany again.

Fortunately we do not live in a police state that criminalizes someone for something like tailgating and basically taking his means of support away. Which is exactly what a police state or dictatorship wants. They force you to do their will by taking your money (or if they put you in jail, your freedom) away (This should wind Jeffie up..)

If you tailgate, did you cause an accident? No. If you are drinking and driving, and you make it from the bar to home without killing anyone, did you kill someone? No. If you are traveling 100mph on the highway and do not have an accident, did you have an accident? No. The government seeks to punish you in advance on something anticipated but that you have not done. But as many of us know, many have speed, tailgated, or even cut someone off without accident or incident some have even were drinking and driving so they can get home safely. Don't think I am against these laws we have in the US because some of them actually increase our safety, but to punish someone 20k for an accident that never happened is government control at its best.

The system now is set up to punish people even though they have done nothing to hurt or injure anyone. There are countries now and this country at one time that do not have speed limits. They punished people if they were dangerous or injured someone but not because they pass some imaginary line on the speedometer that automatically makes you a danger to everyone around you .

Speed does kill. If I bump my head against the wall at 1mph, I might have a concussion. If I ride into a brick wall with no helmet 20mph I will likely be dead. But if I have a helmet on I will probably have at least a big headache. If I hit the wall at 50 mph with helmet, I am probably dead. At minimum speed increases the severity of injury, and worst is that it kills. You can argue that point to the end of the age but it does not change this fact.

We have had this argument at least 2 times before and the outcome is the same. Some want the government to control every aspect of our lives and removing as much money from our pockets to spend as they will. Others believe we should live in a society that has minimal government control, because we can spend our own money better than the government, which is huge, corrupt, inefficient, is not accountable, and seeks only to fund itself.

There was a study done the automotive org AAA and some insurance companies. What they found is that the majority of people drive at a safe speed. (Duh, most people have the self preservation program running as a background task in their brain)

If you take the average speed in any given location and set the speed limit to that, accidents go way down that is because people are motivated to drive at a safe speed at most times. Accidents drop due to the fact it fits the flow of traffic, and those who go a little slower, will speed up a bit and those who are going a little fast will slow down a bit and the consistent flow of traffic will help reduce accidents.

What the revenue generators do is find out this average speed limit and lower it by 5-10 mph. By doing this they can write more tickets and make moe money. The problem is it causes some people who do not care about the law to ride at the average flow of traffic speed and some who try to follow the speed limit and that in turn causes more accidents. (By the way, if you have made it this far in my post I pitty you :lol: )

My point is the city is about revenue generating and not safety. But don't blame the cops, they just do their job, but look to the government and in it you will find tax and spend Democrats, that the people who voted them in, so actually it is the fault of the people who vote in Democrats. ( :lol: If this does not stir the pot, I do not know what will, but again if you made it this far, it is your fault for listening to me ramble on. :lol: )

[R1chie]

I'll just warm my car in the garage from now on! :321:

Make sure you breathe deeply while you are in the garage with your running motor or leave the door between your garage and the house open. :lol:

And just so you know, they like to ticket people who are picking up their kids from school who leave their cars running, because they are right there handing out speeding tickets in the 20 mph zone. Very convenient. :|

[PharmerKyle]

Not that I've lived here long enough to vote anyone of importanc into office, but what exactly is our city wasting money on that's so objectionable?

Parks?

Buses?

Ooh, I know... it's streetlights! Dammit, those things are only used by satanic criminals anyway.

Seriously, where's the pork in this town?

[Butterfly]

Ooh, I know... it's streetlights!

I vote on streetlights too! DAMN them all, specially the one in front of our bedroom window :lol: and we EVEN pay to run that stupid light! $0.48 a month!!! :cry:

[Mista Black]

If you tailgate, did you cause an accident? No. If you are drinking and driving, and you make it from the bar to home without killing anyone, did you kill someone?

i'm gonna toss out my "i was firing my .30-06 into a crowd of school children but i didnt kill any of them" card....

[R1chie]

Not that I've lived here long enough to vote anyone of importanc into office, but what exactly is our city wasting money on that's so objectionable?

Parks?

Buses?

Ooh, I know... it's streetlights! Dammit, those things are only used by satanic criminals anyway.

Seriously, where's the pork in this town?

Well as far as the street lights are concerned. Even though I pay local taxes, they will not pay for street lights in my community. So they pass it along to me. If you would like, I can show you the bill they charged me for my share of the my street light at the end of the street (we really need two but I won't complain because more money will come out of my pocket). Yet through taxes, I still pay for everyone elses street lights.

[Mista Black]

Not that I've lived here long enough to vote anyone of importanc into office, but what exactly is our city wasting money on that's so objectionable?

Parks?

Buses?

Ooh, I know... it's streetlights! Dammit, those things are only used by satanic criminals anyway.

Seriously, where's the pork in this town?

you've obviously not been down there long enough to see the stats on the School District 11 budget.... for 2005-06 it's $209,967,802 and they want more!! can you believe that shit?? The Springs isn't that big a town...

[R1chie]

If you tailgate, did you cause an accident? No. If you are drinking and driving, and you make it from the bar to home without killing anyone, did you kill someone?

i'm gonna toss out my "i was firing my .30-06 into a crowd of school children but i didnt kill any of them" card....

The average person has, tail gated, driven over the speed limit, and many have even driven drunk from time to time as part of the normal function of getting from one place to another, but shooting a gun into a crowd of people is not something the average person does, wants to, or needs to do. Come on Jeffie, you can do better than that. But I made my point and you disagree. That's ok.

[Becks]

Not that I've lived here long enough to vote anyone of importanc into office, but what exactly is our city wasting money on that's so objectionable?

Parks?

Buses?

Ooh, I know... it's streetlights! Dammit, those things are only used by satanic criminals anyway.

Seriously, where's the pork in this town?

you've obviously not been down there long enough to see the stats on the School District 11 budget.... for 2005-06 it's $209,967,802 and they want more!! can you believe that shit?? The Springs isn't that big a town...

Are you seriously complaining about $209,967,802 for a school district. The budget for a school district where I'm from in Fl is way more than that and the majority of schools in Fl are only a B ranking school, with a half dozen F schools. Atleast Colorado is trying to improve their education system.

[Mista Black]

by spending in excess of $40,000,000 a year on administrative costs in that one school district alone. and that's not even the biggest in the state (just in the Springs).

i dont want anyone to think i'm downplaying the importance of a good education for the little ones but the amount of money D11 wastes pisses me off and they want more every year.

[Mista Black]

The average person has, tail gated, driven over the speed limit, and many have even driven drunk from time to time as part of the normal function of getting from one place to another, but shooting a gun into a crowd of people is not something the average person does, wants to, or needs to do. Come on Jeffie, you can do better than that. But I made my point and you disagree. That's ok.

point is they are varying degrees of the same idea. sure the average joe has little need to shoot a gun into a crowd of kids but he has little need to tailgate either. it doesnt get him anywhere any appreciable amount faster.

[R1chie]

The average person has, tail gated, driven over the speed limit, and many have even driven drunk from time to time as part of the normal function of getting from one place to another, but shooting a gun into a crowd of people is not something the average person does, wants to, or needs to do. Come on Jeffie, you can do better than that. But I made my point and you disagree. That's ok.

point is they are varying degrees of the same idea. sure the average joe has little need to shoot a gun into a crowd of kids but he has little need to tailgate either. it doesn’t get him anywhere any appreciable amount faster.

Average Joe usually tailgates when someone drive slow in the fast lane, when the law states that someone should be in the slow lane except to pass, but he trap average joe between himself and an even slower car in the right lane, this slows average joe down when he is in a hurry to get to work. Joe may even pass on the right to get around him which is also illegal. This is also my point, varying degrees. 20k is not justified for tailgating or passing on the right, he may have done 2 illegal things but murderers don't get charged that much. Punishment should fit the crime, but a traffic violation is not really a crime, it was meant to create safer driving, but now is used for revenue generation and the criminalization of our citizens. This what makes me angry.

If you want to tax people to generated revenue that actually pays for streets, highways, or for the police dept, fine. But what makes me angry is we criminalize the general public to generate revenue. This should not be. We should create a law that stops the police dept and city government does not benefiting in anyway from the funds created by traffic violations. This may or may not swing the local government into focusing on traffic law enforcement for safety, and not encourage them to generate revenue.

[Mista Black]

they "tax" people with traffic fines in the USA because they have no interest in preventing people from doing whatever it is they are being fined for. in fact, i'd go so far as to say they WANT the person to break the same law again so they can keep ticketing them for it over and over again. that's a lot worse in my book than a government the puts their fines at limits designed to actually prevent infractions. in europe they want safe drivers. here in the US our government just wants more of our money.

in norway they base your fines on your income. quite a few years back i heard a report of a millionaire getting a speeding fine in excess of $100,000. i bet he seriously cut back on the amount of speeding he did after that too.

Berlin has a population density about 4 times HIGHER than new york city. Munich is over 5 times new york city. they need to have safe driving conditions and overall they have way fewer problems than the USA on their roads and highways.

[Lee]

Seriously, where's the pork in this town?

Start reading the Gazette every day and you will pick up on the pork.

One example: How about those $50,000 studies? The City has paid for quite a few. I wish I could get one of those contracts. Easy money.

Another: The City's downtown improvement projects. Seriously, the City thinks the suburbs are nothing more than a (tax) life support system for the quaint little downtown shops. They need to make it on their own or disappear.

Another: The new, multi-million dollar parking garage that's planned for the downtown area. The current multi-million dollar garage is never full, but the City Council is planning to build another.

There's more.

Just read the Gazette every day. You'll soon start to realize that our City Council is inept, bumbling, and full of small, squabling minds. This town has tax money. It just doesn't manage or use it well.

Fixing the roads needs to be a high priority. It's not. When I think of my mental picture of the City of Colorado Springs, I can only think of one phrase: "Decaying infrastructure." This town has the worst roads of any sizable city I have ever seen. Paving often consists of nothing more than a series of poorly done patches, big globs of asphalt dumped into a hole with motorists vehicles expected to pack it down. As taxpayers, we don't even get our money's worth on what little repairs are performed.

Why not use all the money from traffic offense fines to fix the roads? Because it's going to pay for the studies, the downtown improvement projects, and the new parking garage.

:x

When the City fixes the roads, then we'll talk about more taxes. Right now, I vote "NO" on every tax increase. This City doesn't have it's priorities in the right order.

Lee

[Mista Black]

yeah really... how much did they spend to have a study done to come up with the term "COSMIX" for the I-25 widening?? i'd much rather have a government charging rediculas amounts for traffic fines & causing people to drive safer than a government who lies and says it's all about safety but fines people amounts low enough to NOT persuade them to obey.

the local/state govs in the USA LIE to us constantly. do you they think we're all stupid?? apparently so....

[Lee]

Speed does kill. If I bump my head against the wall at 1mph, I might have a concussion. If I ride into a brick wall with no helmet 20mph I will likely be dead. But if I have a helmet on I will probably have at least a big headache. If I hit the wall at 50 mph with helmet, I am probably dead. At minimum speed increases the severity of injury, and worst is that it kills. You can argue that point to the end of the age but it does not change this fact.

There was a study done the automotive org AAA and some insurance companies. What they found is that the majority of people drive at a safe speed.

For the record: Speed does not kill. I am living proof of that. It's the sudden stops that kill and I don't make sudden stops. :)

Safe speeds: What is a safe speed? That's where the government and I (and a lot of cagers and motorcyclists, too) disagree. What I know is safe for me is known by others to be unsafe for them, so they think my speed is unsafe.

I've been around for a while. During the Nixon years, President Richard Nixon imposed a mandatory maximum speed limit on the entire nation of 55 mph. It was an outrage. The legacy of that dictatorial edict lasted for over 20 years before it was repealed. During that time, it became patriotic to speed and just about everyone did. I'm still caught up in that patriotic fervor. 8)

Lee

[Mista Black]

Agreed Lee, but this is one area I am sure Richie and I (friends though we are) will NEVER agree on.

If speed killed there'd be a lot more airline fatalities. Those guys who drag race and hit 300mph by the end of their 1/4 mile of glory... they'd be dying a lot too. Astronauts, fighter pilots, sky divers. All these these are hella fast, and yet, for the most part, the participents aren't dying off regularly.

Unless of course they hit something. But that's a difference in speed problem NOT a speed problem.

if two guys are in cars traveling toward each other at the speed limit of 65 and they hit head on... that's almost certainly two dead guys. that's 130mph impact all day long. maybe we should just make the speed limit 10mph everywhere... just to be safe.

[Graybird]

No way, I can't even read the speedo at 10MPH!! :lol:

[R1chie]

When the City fixes the roads, then we'll talk about more taxes. Right now, I vote "NO" on every tax increase. This City doesn't have it's priorities in the right order.

Lee

Amen

But we agree to disagree that speed kills. :)

[R1chie]

in norway they base your fines on your income. quite a few years back i heard a report of a millionaire getting a speeding fine in excess of $100,000.

Another example of redistribution of wealth. Everyone should have the same penalty. Just because you have more money should not you pay a bigger percentage.

This is commie, left wing, socialist garbage we don't need in this country.

[R1chie]

Agreed Lee, but this is one area I am sure Richie and I (friends though we are) will NEVER agree on.


See, I am not hated by everyone. Now Abba Zaba and Jeff are my only friends. :lol:

[Mista Black]

Another example of redistribution of wealth. Everyone should have the same penalty. Just because you have more money should not you pay a bigger percentage.

This is commie, left wing, socialist garbage we don't need in this country.

the idea of a fine is to be a penalty. i agree that everyone no matter how successful should pay the same on their taxes, but how can a $50 fine be a penalty for someone with $100 million?? for someone barely getting by on the other hand it can mean paying a bill late or not at all.

if we're going to penalize someone for doing something wrong in order to show them the error of their ways, then the penalty needs to hurt a little bit. in that case, i have no problem with bill gates getting a $50 million speed ticket.

[R1chie]

Another example of redistribution of wealth. Everyone should have the same penalty. Just because you have more money should not you pay a bigger percentage.

This is commie, left wing, socialist garbage we don't need in this country.

the idea of a fine is to be a penalty. i agree that everyone no matter how successful should pay the same on their taxes, but how can a $50 fine be a penalty for someone with $100 million?? for someone barely getting by on the other hand it can mean paying a bill late or not at all.

if we're going to penalize someone for doing something wrong in order to show them the error of their ways, then the penalty needs to hurt a little bit. in that case, i have no problem with bill gates getting a $50 million speed ticket.

So what you are saying, we should penalize people who are successful more just because the worked harder than say a lazy person that wants to live off of welfare?


Let say, I am a rich person, (ok a richie perosn :) ) The reason people gain wealth is because they are smart and work hard (if wealth is handed to them they still must be smart or they will lose it, [a fool and his money are soon parted]. The rich purchase higher insurance coverage to cover when they make a mistake, they are smart and are less likely to have an accident because they have much more to lose (hypothetical reasoning). So being this hypothetical rich person, I might think the guy who work at McDonald’s because he is lazy and does not want to get an education should have to pay the premium (the 20k you suggest, because I the rich guy, already pay a premium to cover them when they don't have insurance, or sufficient liability coverage and their house equity, will not even cover the cost of my car? Why should they drive when they can’t even afford to pay for damages the may cause in the future? That is not fair, and neither is your statement, just because the rich can afford it, they should be penalized more.

Another thing, we are not trying to punish people, we are trying to make them safer drivers. Some people say punishment does not work anyway, just look at prisons, and if prison is not a deterrent enough to keep people from committing real crimes, then how is a fine, even a large one for rich people going to deter them from speeding? It's not but your suggestion promotes people not to be successful and punishes them for being so. It does not affect you because you are not rich so why not?

I can pay a speeding ticket right now. I am not rich, but I go up to the twisties and speed even knowing the consequences. You do too. What really deters me from speeding (besides becoming a blood stain on the road) is that it takes time for me to fight the ticket or go through the court process.

So knowing this I might suggest that everyone that gets a ticket would have to spend 120 hours (or some number of hours after some research is done to determine what is reasonable) community service only on weekends and no fine at all.

This would stop revenue generation by government. Police would only write tickets to people who are dangerous and not to fill a quota. Local government does not want tickets written because each person must go to court and us money to do this. People would freaking be safe because if you have to spend minimum 7 weekends of your life picking up trash along I 25 . They just are not going to want to do it. To know I could not race or ride bikes, boat, relax, or whatever on my time off would be worse than $100 fine because it is time I cannot recapture, . This is fair to rich, average, and poor because everyone has to do it.

But this would never happen because the present system has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with revenue generation.

[Mista Black]

The reason people gain wealth is because they are smart<snip>

and should, therefore, know better. now you're catching on!! :up:

[Mista Black]

The rich purchase higher insurance coverage to cover when they make a mistake, they are smart and are less likely to have an accident because they have much more to lose (hypothetical reasoning).

so the rich have more of a right to endanger their fellow citizens?? is that what i'm hearing?? so bill gates SHOULD be allowed to fire a high powered rifle into a school yard full of kids if he's got the insurance to back up any damages??

and i know plenty of extremely intelligent people won't can't drive or ride worth a damn... fast or slow or at all. rich doesnt make a good driver. (and speed doesnt kill :P ).

So being this hypothetical rich person, I might think the guy who work at McDonald’s because he is lazy and does not want to get an education should have to pay the premium (the 20k you suggest, because I the rich guy, already pay a premium to cover them when they don't have insurance

the insurance industry has almost as many thieves as the government does. i dont believe in insurance for vehicles at all!! it's a crock of sh*t, just like traffic tickets are.

That is not fair, and neither is your statement, just because the rich can afford it, they should be penalized more.

again the idea of a penalty is to promote conformance. fining a millionaire $20 doesnt do that. fining him $20,000 might just.

taxes are a different matter all together. no one should pay a higher percentage than anyone else. taxes (at least in spirit) are not a penalty.

Another thing, we are not trying to punish people, we are trying to make them safer drivers.

huh?? did you seriously just suggest that giving someone a ticket in some way makes them a "safer" driver?? it might make them more careful but an idiot behind the wheel is an idiot behind the wheel whether they are doing 20 over the limit or 20 under. a safer driver is a better driver and getting a license in this country is just a step above brazil where you literally walk into a store and buy it off the shelf (seriously... according to my dad who spends a LOT of time down there). until we actually train people to be better drivers they wont be safer drivers.

Some people say punishment does not work anyway, just look at prisons, and if prison is not a deterrent enough to keep people from committing real crimes, then how is a fine, even a large one for rich people going to deter them from speeding?

you know as well as i if prisons were run differently (in way that didnt coddle the inmates) there'd be less crime. in areas where they (the prison system) dont screw around they have less crime.

It's not but your suggestion promotes people not to be successful and punishes them for being so. It does not affect you because you are not rich so why not?

that's crap. people will always want to be successful. we have a system now that encourages success?? why so many people working for others and not owning their own businesses then??

a $200 fine to someone making $6.50 an hour may as well be a $20,000 fine. a $200 fine to someone making $500 an hour may as well be a $1 fine.

you know i'm right :D

I can pay a speeding ticket right now. I am not rich, but I go up to the twisties and speed even knowing the consequences. You do too. What really deters me from speeding (besides becoming a blood stain on the road) is that it takes time for me to fight the ticket or go through the court process.

i dont fight them. usually when i get them i was speeding. when i am forced to go to court i'll fight it. i, like you, believe in the "pay to play concept." but when money's tight, i do slow down a lot, until it's not tight.

So knowing this I might suggest that everyone that gets a ticket would have to spend 120 hours (or some number of hours after some research is done to determine what is reasonable) community service only on weekends and no fine at all.

i was sentenced to comm service once and didnt do it. there were never any repercussions at all. so how did that make me stop speeding??

you gonna start advocating more welfare as a way to encourage people to get jobs next?? :idea:

This would stop revenue generation by government. Police would only write tickets to people who are dangerous and not to fill a quota. Local government does not want tickets written because each person must go to court and us money to do this.

this will never happen and you know it. the govts would rather have the cash and trash along the highways.

People would freaking be safe because if you have to spend minimum 7 weekends of your life picking up trash along I 25.

if speed caused accidents than they would be safer but it doesnt. poor driving causes accidents. and until we start putting out better drivers who actually respect the fact that they have a license the roads in america will not be truely safe.

They just are not going to want to do it. To know I could not race or ride bikes, boat, relax, or whatever on my time off would be worse than $100 fine because it is time I cannot recapture. This is fair to rich, average, and poor because everyone has to do it.

please. there are very few (if any at all) people in govt who are currently poor. they are not going to put laws into effect that will harm them. they are successful people. and you said your self, those kind arent stupid. if they honestly thought they could pass laws to actually stop speeding and still get re-elected they'd do it. and a $20,000 or $200,000 fine to a rich man in his porsche/ferrari/etc would most certainly slow him down. and potentially give us the money to pay a few people for the next few years to work full time picking up trash along i-25.

the laws are not designed to hurt the rich because the rich are the ones making the laws... pay attention...

But this would never happen because the present system has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with revenue generation.

which is what lee and i have been saying... you're finally coming around.

[R1chie]

Coming around to the idea of redistribution of wealth, sorry. I can't go fo that ohoow oh hoe, noooo, no can do..

I guess we agree it is a money making machine, You want to feed it moe money by making the rich pay. I want to feed it less money by forcing community service. If you skip community service, then that becomes a crime and you do jail time, I am just brainstorming. But you want to charge the rich more money, but if you look at it, I consider you rich so you too should pay the 20k fine, only people who make less than 10k per year pay less, that seems fair to me and will make you obey the laws.

The government is a monster troll, the more you feed it the bigger it gets, please don't feed the troll. :D

[Nick_Ninja]

Coming around to the idea of redistribution of wealth, sorry. I can't go fo that ohoow oh hoe, noooo, no can do..

I guess we agree it is a money making machine, You want to feed it moe money by making the rich pay. I want to feed it less money by forcing community service. If you skip community service, then that becomes a crime and you do jail time, I am just brainstorming. But you want to charge the rich more money, but if you look at it, I consider you rich so you too should pay the 20k fine, only people who make less than 10k per year pay less, that seems fair to me and will make you obey the laws.

The government is a monster troll, the more you feed it the bigger it gets, please don't feed the troll. :D

10K is a joke ----- the established median income in Colorado is 54K --- that was the number that the Fed's used in determining the newly developed bankruptcy laws that went into effect on October 17th, 2005.

[R1chie]

10K is a joke ----- the established median income in Colorado is 54K --- that was the number that the Fed's used in determining the newly developed bankruptcy laws that went into effect on October 17th, 2005.

But that is the beauty of it, Jeff wants to feed the troll money, the majority of people are not rich, the are the median income, since it is the largest class, charging them 20k will bring the maching moe money.

Of course, I don't want to feed the troll, Do you?

[Mista Black]

no i dont want to give the govt more money. and if "penalties" in this country actually made sense and we made punishment stick there'd be less crime and we'd be giving the man far less in total dollars per year.

but the man doesnt want the roads safe otherwise they'd pass laws that make sense and force people to stop speeding, tailgating, driving in the left lane, not using turn signals etc. they have no interest in that.

i think the individual cops, on the other hand, would love to see that happen.

want it to all be even and fair for everyone?? great. how about this: if they are serious about forcing people to try to be better, smarter, more careful drivers, then ANY traffic law that a person breaks is a mandatory 2.5% of their income. we'd all be paying 2.5% if we're busted so that's fair.

the dude at McD's making 6.50/hour just got a $338 fine (if he's full time) for speeding. that'd seriously hurt most people making 6.50/hour.

the really well off guy making $500/hour would have a $26,000 fine for the same crime. they're both paying the same... 2.5% and in my eye's that just might actually be a deterant.

[Nick_Ninja]

no i dont want to give the govt more money. and if "penalties" in this country actually made sense and we made punishment stick there'd be less crime and we'd be giving the man far less in total dollars per year.

but the man doesnt want the roads safe otherwise they'd pass laws that make sense and force people to stop speeding, tailgating, driving in the left lane, not using turn signals etc. they have no interest in that.

i think the individual cops, on the other hand, would love to see that happen.

want it to all be even and fair for everyone?? great. how about this: if they are serious about forcing people to try to be better, smarter, more careful drivers, then ANY traffic law that a person breaks is a mandatory 2.5% of their income. we'd all be paying 2.5% if we're busted so that's fair.

the dude at McD's making 6.50/hour just got a $338 fine (if he's full time) for speeding. that'd seriously hurt most people making 6.50/hour.

the really well off guy making $500/hour would have a $26,000 fine for the same crime. they're both paying the same... 2.5% and in my eye's that just might actually be a deterant.

I agree with this -------- however, that would be based totally on REPORTED income :twisted: :lol:

[Mista Black]

:spit: of course :P

[R1chie]

no i dont want to give the govt more money. and if "penalties" in this country actually made sense and we made punishment stick there'd be less crime and we'd be giving the man far less in total dollars per year.

Are you saying going over the speed limit is a crime? I think people can drive over the speed limits we have here and still be safe. That should not be a crime.

but the man doesnt want the roads safe otherwise they'd pass laws that make sense and force people to stop speeding, tailgating, driving in the left lane, not using turn signals etc. they have no interest in that.

i think the individual cops, on the other hand, would love to see that happen.

I think we agree here on both points.

How about this, if a tree falls in the woods and no one was around to hear it, did it make a sound?

If I did not use my turn signal, and there was no one around to see it, was I unsafe?

If I am at a stop light and I see there is no one around, if I run it and no one seen it, was I unsafe?

Then why are these "crimes"? When you remove the ability for people to think and use judgment then government becomes bigger, wants to dictate to people, then wants your pocket book when you do not do what it tells you to do..

[Mista Black]

if no ones around, the cop didnt see it either and you wont get stopped. a good arguement could be made that if a cop was there to see it than you just put him in some elevated state of danger albeit minimally most likely...

and that's correct, trees that fall in the forest when no one is there to hear dont make a sound :P

[The Black Knight]

Well my comments on a few topics in this post..

Lee

If you want better roads man you should have voted for C & D to pass. Don't listen to that fat slob Doug Bruce tell you what to do with your life. California ran him out of their state and I wish Colorado would nut up and do the same. If C & D were passed the State/City could then use money "ALREADY" collected towards road upgrades, public transportation etc..

Complaining that our roads aren't fixed won't help. Oh and please!! are you really desperate for that $11 tax return you'll get from street lights and road taxes???

Taxes keep us afloat and pay for upgrades. I'm sure you can afford a few cents every paycheck to help upgrade your city. You live here, pay for it!

People like Mr. Bruce want our city to turn into the dump. Basically he likes his city to look like his rental properties. "SLUM LORD" is the term. He and his devoted lemming folowers want the city to look the same. I'm sorry, but the sooner people realize that this kind of mindset is stupid the sooner this town will get funds to fix its problems.

Richie

Come on man... so someone who works at McDonalds is a lazy stupid person? I don't know if you eat there or not, but people have to serve you man. Every restaurant you go to people have to wait and serve you. Are they stupid and lazy for not getting a higher education so they can have a lavish job and lifestyle?? That's self-righteous and hypocritical. Someone always has to do a certain job.

Just because someone is blue-collar does not make you right to slam them for their financial income. That's what is missing in this world today a good hard days work(not saying McDonalds is hard). Construction workers, etc. People who actually work for a living. I'm sorry not to offend but sitting behind a desk and punching a keyboard or writing memos isn't hard work. Its working for a living... Its just not hard work... I didn't want to get off on this wild tangent but just had to remark about your pious behaviour towards working class people.


On that note, I think most who have read my posts know how I feel about law enforcement. Do I think 20K for tailgating is a bit much?? Yes. That's a rather steep penalty to enforce. Basing penalties on someones income is also a bit much. Because as well all know the "RICH" can buy their way out of anything. If you have a millionaire, a 20k fine is just a slap on the wrist. Really it is.. You don't know how much money this said millionaire is bringing in.

That's like penalizing Donald Trump with a $50,000,000.00 speeding ticket. He makes that in like a day with his businesses. So what he'll pay it and be on his way.

My thoughts on revenue generation via police control is its BS!! They do write to many tickets.

I am a city employee myself. I recently attended a class on employee orientation. We now have 1,017 Officers. The DA handles more then 100,000 cases a year based on traffic fines!!! Its a bit out of control. Not all are speeding.

Would I rather see money collected other ways? Yes. Via regular taxes and so forth. I don't mind paying a dollar here or a dollar there if it will help the upkeep of my city. I can afford to give it.. I know some people (elderly) hate tax raises.. They are on a fixed income. That's fine, but here is a tip for them!! Quit spending your fixed income money on lottery tickets. Its one thing to buy a few, but I consistently wait behind people in gas stations buying sometimes $50 to $100 worth of tickets. Then they don't win a thing..

Its sad but its not my money I'm spending on countless tickets so I really could care less......

[Priller_Nate]

Lee,

I couldn't agree with you more. I too am totally disgusted with the revenue that the city is generating under the cloak of "safety." I work with a retired cop, and he also denies police quotas, but told me the courts need the #'s of tickets to fill up the dockets. Hmm...sounds like the same fricken thing to me (although semi-indirectly..of course). Doesn't it just make ya stew to see 8 or 9 bike cops on their Harley's B.S.ing it at a light waiting for speeders, or the cops with the new Honda's. Those must have cost a fortune. If its all about safety, stand on the corner in a blazing orange suit so the citizens can see you, NOT in a fricken bush with radar gun in hand. :x
And while I agree the drivers here are horrible, they don't hold a candle to the drivers in San Antonio, TX as far as lack of skill or common sense is concerned.


Oh and assuming Colorado springs population is roughly around 370,000 (city NOT county)....and with 1,017 officers...that comes out to one officer for every 363 people!!! Is it just me or does that ratio seem totally absurd.

Nathan

[R1chie]

Come on man... so someone who works at McDonalds is a lazy stupid person?

I wish you would read my post and not jump to conclusions on what I think. I said, and I quote myself. " So being this hypothetical rich person, I might think the guy who work at McDonald’s because he is lazy and does not want to get an education

This is not a real person, and it is not me, and the statements says, this hypothetical rich person MIGHT think this.

If I am stereotyping anyone, it is what rich people MIGHT think of someone who works at McDonalds. And this was a point to Jeff to say that he is stereotyping rich people. Just as you are by saying "Because as well all know the "RICH" can buy their way out of anything.

That is stereo typing and you say it straight out.

So while you prejudge me and say "That's self-righteous and hypocritical.""I didn't want to get off on this wild tangent but just had to remark about your pious behaviour towards working class people."
You need to read the post and quite putting words in others mouths.

But I will comment on this statement.... "I'm sorry not to offend but sitting behind a desk and punching a keyboard or writing memos isn't hard work. "

Are you saying, software coding, chip design, or anything involving a computer is not hard work? If you really believe that then my estimation of your intelligence just dropped and tells me it is you that is prejudice towards those who did what it took whether it be years of college or training to get where they are and be successful. That is like saying, city workers are idiots and overpaid ones at that, is all they do is stand around and look busy, that why our taxes are high and we have poor quality of service. I have heard that before, and not just from the "RICH" but from people who work for city government so while it is easy to pass judgment on those who sit behind a desk, there are those who point fingers back.

[The Black Knight]

It was more of analogy used. I personally don't think there is any job that is lowly. As for others well some do think certain jobs are beneath them.

I'm not sterotyping when its truth. Rich people do buy their way out of jail. Its common knowledge they do.

Just as you say I misread your statement you misread mine.

I didn't say that working behind a desk was a bad job. I never said that it wasn't work or wasn't a form of earning a living.. But we can be real here and say that its not hard work... Yeah it may be mentally taxing.

I was talking about putting in a real hard days work(meaning physical labor) If someone has the means or budget to make to college then great. They achieved a goal. That's hard work.

Point I was making is that everyone is important in their role they play. Someone had to build your house you live in etc, etc. I didn't care for the analogy used of blue-collar workers. Granted I was reading every comment posted and honestly don't remember seeing the "hypothetical persona" used. Now that I've gone back I have seen it.

As for computers and those that design them. I have nothing but respect for them. They have the tools and equipment to make some of the best parts out there for computers. I should know I'm in the process of building my own right now. I love computers and everything about them.

I wasn't ragging on you about anything. Just wanted to call attention to a analogy used that might offend....

[CHuck U Farley]

But how would the city pay for a crashed cop car and the street light that is destroyed possibly causing other accidents when idiots run from police?

[R1chie]

But how would the city pay for a crashed cop car and the street light that is destroyed possibly causing other accidents when idiots run from police?

With the tax money already collected and marked for law enforcement. That is why we pay taxes.

[Lee]

Well my comments on a few topics in this post..

Lee

If you want better roads man you should have voted for C & D to pass. Don't listen to that fat slob Doug Bruce tell you what to do with your life. California ran him out of their state and I wish Colorado would nut up and do the same. If C & D were passed the State/City could then use money "ALREADY" collected towards road upgrades, public transportation etc..

Complaining that our roads aren't fixed won't help. Oh and please!! are you really desperate for that $11 tax return you'll get from street lights and road taxes???

Taxes keep us afloat and pay for upgrades. I'm sure you can afford a few cents every paycheck to help upgrade your city. You live here, pay for it!

I spent 37 years of my life in Texas. The State has no income tax, low sales tax. The road system is awesome and in good repair. Good roads do not equate to higher taxes.

I lived 11 years in Salt Lake City, Utah. The State income tax is 7.75%, the sales tax is 6.25%. Utah even applies the sales tax to food purchases, which is highly regressive. They also have awesome roads in good repair.

Each of these 2 locales has taken a different tax approach to building and maintaining good roads. The point is, whether taxes are low or high, the government has to make building and maintaining good roads a priority. The evidence is overwhelming that the commitment to do that is missing both here in Colorado Springs and in much of Colorado.

Lee

[Mac020]

Anybody hit the bump on the Bijou bridge lately? By the time it's all said and done about 1/3 of my paycheck goes to the gov. Prolly 1/2 when theire done. $.24 for every gallon of gas. What ???7.5% sales tax?. $10000.00? per day? from tickets $$$'s spent on how a plaque on the side of a building should cost. The more I see the more I wonder where the monies going! :321: em.

[R1chie]

Anybody hit the bump on the Bijou bridge lately? By the time it's all said and done about 1/3 of my paycheck goes to the gov. Prolly 1/2 when theire done. $.24 for every gallon of gas. What ???7.5% sales tax?. $10000.00? per day? from tickets $$$'s spent on how a plaque on the side of a building should cost. The more I see the more I wonder where the monies going! :321: em.

You and everyone else in Colorado Springs.

[RAGrote]

Prolly 1/2 when theire done.

All said and done.. an analysis of total tax costs for the last 3 years revealed that approx 56% of my earned income went to taxes. When considering fuel, goods, food... etc.

I'm still trying to figure out how - when charge tax on my income and then charge tax on fuel and other goods - it's not double taxation.

I'm sure there's an answer to that... that'll just piss me off more. :321: :321: Fuggin crooks.

Sure glad we spent that 450+ billion in Iraq. :x

[R1chie]

I'm sure there's an answer to that... that'll just piss me off more. :321: :321: Fuggin crooks.

Sure glad we spent that 450+ billion in Iraq. :x

Be thankfull you don't live in England, taxes there a much higher, and so is the cost of living.

We now have a free democratic Iraq. Thanks to Bush, it will keep the terrorists over there for a while instead of blowing up stuff here. I think it is worth it, glad we have Bush in office..

[CHuck U Farley]

But how would the city pay for a crashed cop car and the street light that is destroyed possibly causing other accidents when idiots run from police?

With the tax money already collected and marked for law enforcement. That is why we pay taxes.

That was sarcasm in case you didnt get it. :roll:

[#1Townie]

you know why it is that the government thinks it can get away with anything?? THEY CAN!!!!! what are the people going to actually come together and make a stand :lol:

[R1chie]

what are the people going to actually come together and make a stand :lol:

There is a group that takes a stand and wants smaller Federal government, they want lower taxes, and they don't want a corrupt government running programs. They are against wasteful government programs and for turning it over to private sector where there is accountability. They are against terrorists, they want to make sure we send a strong message to terrorists that they will die at our hand. They don't want the UN to take over our military, they want to make sure government doesn't take our money for taxes and spends it the way they think it should be spent, but give it back to tax payers. They are called voters! For the Republican party :lol:

[R1chie]

But how would the city pay for a crashed cop car and the street light that is destroyed possibly causing other accidents when idiots run from police?

With the tax money already collected and marked for law enforcement. That is why we pay taxes.

That was sarcasm in case you didnt get it. :roll:

Mine was irony, did you catch that? ;)

[Mac020]

Waco!

[Nick_Ninja]

Can someone here set me straight? Why in the HELL can’t R1chie gather his thoughts and POST THOSE THOUGHTS THE FUCK ONCE ---- ONE TIME ----- THAT’S ALL THAT IS REQUIRED???------- It is totally schizophrenic when ones thought pattern precipitates an immediate response with an additional adjunct (alit be maybe a similar or parallel thought pattern) response --- I would NEVER ride with a mind like that --- never knowing what turn it might take next. _________ yeah your true colors have shown themselves for many years here now R1chie boy --- your MO is recorded :321:

[#1Townie]

what are the people going to actually come together and make a stand :lol:

There is a group that takes a stand and wants smaller Federal government, they want lower taxes, and they don't want a corrupt government running programs. They are against wasteful government programs and for turning it over to private sector where there is accountability. They are against terrorists, they want to make sure we send a strong message to terrorists that they will die at our hand. They don't want the UN to take over our military, they want to make sure government doesn't take our money for taxes and spends it the way they think it should be spent, but give it back to tax payers. They are called voters! For the Republican party :lol:

yeah and they get soooooooooooo much done :roll:

[Nick_Ninja]

what are the people going to actually come together and make a stand :lol:

There is a group that takes a stand and wants smaller Federal government, they want lower taxes, and they don't want a corrupt government running programs. They are against wasteful government programs and for turning it over to private sector where there is accountability. They are against terrorists, they want to make sure we send a strong message to terrorists that they will die at our hand. They don't want the UN to take over our military, they want to make sure government doesn't take our money for taxes and spends it the way they think it should be spent, but give it back to tax payers. They are called voters! For the Republican party :lol:

You guys deserve DouglASS Bruce ---- enjoy fookers :lol:

[Mista Black]

you know why it is that the government thinks it can get away with anything?? THEY CAN!!!!! what are the people going to actually come together and make a stand :lol:


Amen brother!! if the people did the same we could fight it but for the most part the people just sit around watching football and bitching about it. the govt is the only one doing anything to change things while all the collective "we" do is complain.

[R1chie]

Can someone here set me straight? Why in the HELL can’t R1chie gather his thoughts and POST THOSE THOUGHTS THE FUCK ONCE ---- ONE TIME ----- THAT’S ALL THAT IS REQUIRED???------- It is totally schizophrenic when ones thought pattern precipitates an immediate response with an additional adjunct (alit be maybe a similar or parallel thought pattern) response --- I would NEVER ride with a mind like that --- never knowing what turn it might take next. _________ yeah your true colors have shown themselves for many years here now R1chie boy --- your MO is recorded :321:

It was a joke, Nick. And by the way, I joined after I bought my bike which was 04 so it has not been 2 years yet. I think you need another drink to sooth the thought patterns in your mind, that seems to be your MO. And I can assure you, I never ride with a mind like that.. :|

[Lee]

You guys deserve DouglASS Bruce ---- enjoy fookers :lol:

Nobody deserves Doug Bruce.

Lee

[Lee]

R1chie, Nick_Ninja,

I'm not a moderator but guys, it's just posting.

It's been said to me before and it's true: if you don't like someone's posts, don't read them.

We all have our little quirks and peculiarities. Please, be tolerant. With 6 billion peculiar people on the planet, I don't think we have any other options.

Best regards to you both,

Lee

[luv4corners]

Admin Edit: Deleted post.

Hey jackass, you were banned from CSC once already. This makes twice, and your IP is canned at the firewall. If you come back again, I start contacting your ISP to get you shut off. (Don't think I can? Guess again.)

[R1chie]

R1chie, Nick_Ninja,

if you don't like someone's posts, don't read them.



Or just don't respond. I am all for it. What happens on this board is no reflection on what happens on other boards.

[#1Townie]

Admin Edit: Deleted post.

Hey jackass, you were banned from CSC once already. This makes twice, and your IP is canned at the firewall. If you come back again, I start contacting your ISP to get you shut off. (Don't think I can? Guess again.)


:pointlaugh:

[ZX12r_Pat]

What a read... :cry:

Just for everyone's information the Colorado Springs municipal court raked in 10 Million last year on fines alone. There is a reason why there is never, never any CSPD guys in County traffic court on Fridays.

They will always deny the no quotas thing, but when you need to write 20 tickets a day to keep your bike is pretty hard to deny it.

Just my .02 on those issues alone.

Pat

[CHuck U Farley]

If you speed you bleed......
Enough Said.........

[TheSollyLama]

the solution is simple. the people have the power here. if everyone (and it would likely take just about everyone) in the USA obeyed all traffic laws constantly for 6 months, i'm sure that would be enough to bankrupt quite a few city governments and a ton of cops would lose their jobs. less cops=less enforcement=less tickets.

--I disagree, they will simply lower speed limits as they did here in The Springs to 25 from 30mph. Too many people puttered along quite happily at 30 and didn't generate enough tickets. When you obey a law designed to generate wealth, the powers that be will simply devise another law to get their money.

How? The NMA (National Motorist Association) advocates going to court for EVERY ticket. Think about it, they are writing 110 tickets per day....right now the vast majority of those people just pay the fine (could almost be called a "tax") and go on with their lives. But, if EVERY ONE of them went to court on their assigned date instead, the system would be so flooded that the judges and the city administrators would tell the police to stop writing so many pointless tickets and just go after the truly dangerous offences

--No, again the system will react with the most common response it has---Bigger government. You won't find a city minding having to expand it's gov't. More gov't means more money, both from raising taxes to pay for it and fed funding.

Always go to court for your tickets, I agree. But in reality your plan would have the effect of providing COS justification to hire more cops and set up more speed traps to pay for the bunch of new judges they would hire.

[Lee]

F L A S H ! !

This just in from the Gazette newspaper in Colorado Springs:

Traffic citations statistics for 2004:
35,497 tickets
~$5,000,000 in revenue
97+ tickets/day, year 'round average

Traffic citations statistics for 2005:
43,271 tickets
~$6,000,000 in revenue
118+ tickets/day, year 'round average
______________________________________

Keep in mind that during the winter months, cops are relatively scarce on Colorado Springs streets and few citations are written, so the number of tickets written per day during warm weather is much higher than the year 'round average.

Looks like a growth business to me. When I grow up, I'm gonna get my own city and just let the money pour in. 8)

Lee

P.S. Where do all the cops go during the Winter? Have you ever noticed that they are everywhere on a warm day but almost non-existent during cold weather? Do they hibernate or what? We're paying their salaries year 'round.