Just say no to revenue generation?

[R1chie]

Here is a link to the proposed changes. It looks like city engineering is changing to the 85 percentile method of determining speed for our city (with other factors weighing in). Most of the speeds are going up. That means revenue generation should be going down. It looks good but you never know with these guys. Review the changes and voice your opinion.

Make sure you look at the Power Point presentation as for why the changes! (slow download though)
http://www.springsgov.com/Page.asp?NavID=6187

[ZX12r_Pat]

The city engineers already did a lot of changes to the limits.. Till council found out. Now this... Example, Research was 40MPH all the way from Powers, its now 45. Same for Woodmen, from Academy to Rangewood.

Now its in debate wheater to continue with the changes... Sad I think.

Pat

PS.. Do you know I'm selling my bike,

ZX12_R (http://cosportbikeclub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21508)

[R1chie]

The city engineers already did a lot of changes to the limits.. Till council found out. Now this... Example, Research was 40MPH all the way from Powers, its now 45. Same for Woodmen, from Academy to Rangewood.

Now its in debate wheater to continue with the changes... Sad I think.

Pat

PS.. Do you know I'm selling my bike,

ZX12_R (http://cosportbikeclub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21508)

They are having meetings about the changes, one last night, two more, one a CoronadoHS and the other at Doherty HS. I think I will show up to one of them.

Once everything is finalized maybe you could get another bike?

[Dave]

Rich,
I don’t know much of anything about traffic engineering, but I did skim through the Speed Limit Setting Practices, and most of it seems to make cents to me. :) I trust their judgment and never realized cities spend so many resources to study traffic patterns. I agree with you- if a few of the major roads are getting their speed limits raised a bit, and for reasons that will increase safety, that seems like a good thing to me.

Does someone know who the firm/organization is that did the traffic study and wrote the report?

[R1chie]

Rich,
I don’t know much of anything about traffic engineering, but I did skim through the Speed Limit Setting Practices, and most of it seems to make cents to me. :) I trust their judgment and never realized cities spend so many resources to study traffic patterns. I agree with you- if a few of the major roads are getting their speed limits raised a bit, and for reasons that will increase safety, that seems like a good thing to me.

Does someone know who the firm/organization is that did the traffic study and wrote the report?

If you are wondering about the report that states that 85% of drivers drive at a safe speed regardless of what the speed limit is. That was a combined studing with AAA Automobile and a major auto insurance company (I think it was Allstate). If you are talking about the studies for traffic, the city does those themselves.

I mentioned this in a earlier post which is why I agreed with the general revenue generating style of our city. If traffic engineers actually set speed limits and not city council then the scales tip more toward safety and less toward revenue generation. (at least my opinion) Flow of traffic is the single most important factor in lessening accidents.

Another study has shown how to reduce accidents at traffic lights is to not allow left hand turns to be made while head on traffic is allowed. A number of our lights in this town have been changed to this format which "should" reduce accidents.

By the way when is the next ride? :)

[Butterfly]

Finally they will increase the speed limit near our street! 35mph was too slow on such big street. :D

[RAGrote]

Saying that increasing the speed limit will reduce the tickets is like saying if we increase the size of the bigmac then fat people won't be able to finish the burger and they'll lose weight.

Human nature says - if the speed limit is 50 people will drive 60 - if it's 60 they'll drive 70.

Go ahead... tell me I'm wrong.

Raising the speed limit just means that mom in the minivan - talking on the phone, bitchin at the kids, changing the DVD, and putting on her makeup will have that much LESS time to swerve into the on-coming motorcycle to avoid running over the 13 stripe Pike ground squirrel.

[R1chie]

Saying that increasing the speed limit will reduce the tickets is like saying if we increase the size of the bigmac then fat people won't be able to finish the burger and they'll lose weight.

Human nature says - if the speed limit is 50 people will drive 60 - if it's 60 they'll drive 70.

Go ahead... tell me I'm wrong.

Raising the speed limit just means that mom in the minivan - talking on the phone, bitchin at the kids, changing the DVD, and putting on her makeup will have that much LESS time to swerve into the on-coming motorcycle to avoid running over the 13 stripe Pike ground squirrel.

Your analogy assumes everyone is fat. If you increase the size of the burger, skinny, medium and slightly overweight people (if we follow the analogy to a logical conclusion) will not be able to finish the burger because they are part of the 85percentile that always eats the right amount regardless of how large the portions are given to them. Fat people are not in the 85 percentile and will finish it.

If you are saying it is human nature to always act and drive in an unsafe manner in everyday activities I will tell you are wrong and that the opposite is true and is human nature. Fear, self-preservation, intelligence were designed and instilled into every human. Aberrations come from defects and purposeful defeat of these mechanisms designed to keep us from harm.

The study proves that the 85th percentile drive at a safe speed no matter what the speed posted. If this were not the case we would have a greater number of accidents and deaths.

I do agree that your example of the soccer mom will probably go faster. She is outside of 85 percentile and drives at unsafe speeds no matter what the posted speed limit. But as the study states people drive at safe speed subconsciously, unsafe drivers that speed will override this behavior. But using the 85-percentile method, she would always be going faster than the speed limit no matter what was posted and be the one getting the ticket. While the 85th percentile will drive at a safe speed no matter what the speed limit and not get a ticket if the speed limit is appropriate. This is because they don't want to die in an accident. Only the soccer mom (which is how it should be) will get a ticket. Traffic will flow near a constant that will further decrease accidents even for those who are not in the 85 percentile.

What I have noticed driving I-25 everyday to work and back is that not everyone drives 75 mph, many drive at 70. This is a good indication that the speed limit is a good one. Speed differences of 5mph to a max of 15 at high speeds helps the flow of traffic and allow time for lane changes. Even those going 80mph are within 10mph. Since speed limits are the MAXIMUM safe speed the speed limit seems to be a good one.

[RAGrote]

Before I logged in I made the mistake of reading part of your moronic post.

Your logic is so flawed it's not even worth debating.

I'm glad you can live with yourself... that way I don't have to. putz

[R1chie]

Before I logged in I made the mistake of reading part of your moronic post.

Your logic is so flawed it's not even worth debating.

I'm glad you can live with yourself... that way I don't have to. putz

Your logic says "Human nature says - if the speed limit is 50 people will drive 60 - if it's 60 they'll drive 70. "

So if I post a speed limit of 110mph, everyone is going to drive at 120 because it is human nature?

You have a right to your opinion and logic. I can live with that even though it may not make sense to me. You won't see me calling your posts moronic or suggest you are a moron.

I believe that the 85percentile will see a 110mph speed limit and ignore it and drive at a safe speed. The study shows that and the study makes sense to my way of thinking.

Perhaps "my logic" does not make sense to you because you are part of the 15 percent that does not drive at a safe speed and always wants to go 10 mph over the posted speed limit no matter what it is. If that is the case, then I can completely understand why you would think "my logic" is flawed and why the study is false.

The other possible reason is you just like to debate with me. But if that is the case why would you ignore me? Then the next question would be, if you are ignoring me, why would you answer my posts? For me our online bantering is fun and makes me laugh sometimes hopefully you have as good a time as I do.