Own the Racetracks and the Streets

[Lee]

From Sport Rider Magazine, June, 2006 - Literbike Shootout Article

I sort of hate to post things like this. It can be hard on my non-Suzuki owning friends' egos. :(

But, I don’t hate doing it enough not to post it. :twisted:
___________________________

Excerpts from the "Literbike Lunacy" article starting on page 60:

"Our testers had few complaints with the Suzuki on the street. The only returning model in the quartet, we're all familiar with the GSX-R's strengths in the canyons. The lowest seat height in the group is complemented with the narrowest seat/tank junction, swept-back clip-ons, and forward-set pegs. The Suzuki just plain feels smaller and lighter, carves into turns far easier than the other bikes and holds its line better with compliant yet firm suspension.

Even though the Suzuki gives up a few ponies to the Kawasaki, its engine is even more user-friendly and peppier than the smooth, strong, ZX-10R's. Part-throttle response from the dual butterfly/dual injector setup is incredible, yet the off/on transition is the smoothest here - a good thing because the Suzuki provides a lot of engine braking, in spite of its slipper clutch. Whereas the other bikes require either first or second gear for many slow-speed canyon turns ("slow" being a relative term here), the GSX-R's user-friendliness and part throttle peppiness give a choice of either gear for most turns.

As an aside, the Suzuki is by far the loudest bike of these four, combining a moderate exhaust note with very loud intake noise.

With all the points tallied, the GSX-R eked out a small – but clear – victory in the street portion of the test, with the other three practically tied for second.

Just as on the street ride, we found little to complain about with the Suzuki at our track day. The engine delivers exactly as much power as you want, when you want it, and how you want it, with practically seamless fuel injection and a broad, smooth torque curve. Its suspension absorbs both small ripples and big hits equally well. Steering is light, and the Suzuki turns into corners the easiest of the four bikes. All our testers felt immediately comfortable on the big GSX-R, and the Suzuki carded the quickest lap time.

As on the street ride, while most riders praised the Suzuki’s ergonomics, others found the riding position a bit cramped. There’s really nothing else to fault, and all our testers’ notes are quite brief, listing only positive points.

With the racetrack votes tallied, the GSX-R again carded a small but definite victory. And again, the other three bikes were practically tied for second.

One thing is clear: In stock form, the Suzuki GSX-R1000, as written in Kento’s notes: “Fulfills both street and track roles with the least compromises, which is a very tough thing to do.”

Incredibly, the unchanged GSX-R still reigns supreme on the open-class range."
___________________________

:D

Lee

[Nick_Ninja]

I'd never own a Susucky :twisted:

[konichd]

Lee, I'll have to agree with you on that one! I picked up the issue last night and unfortunately the new ZX-10R was at the bottom! :( The Honda, Yamaha, and Kawi were pretty close but the Suzuki definately took the cake.

Perhaps if Kawi would have stuck with the 05 and "refined" it a little more it would have done better. A couple of the interviews said the guys loved the 05 over the 06.........

Well in 3 yrs I'll be ready to make a better choice.......... :(

[Lee]

I'd never own a Susucky :twisted:

Some people are satisfied with second or third best. :)

Lee

[Nick_Ninja]

I'd never own a Susucky :twisted:

Some people are satisfied with second or third best. :)

Lee

Yeah right -- your the guy who's in my mirror(s) aren't you?

[Lee]

Well in 3 yrs I'll be ready to make a better choice.......... :(

In 3 years, there is no telling where literbike technology will be. You might have to pick a Kawasaki again. :)

Lee

[Lee]

I'd never own a Susucky :twisted:

Some people are satisfied with second or third best. :)

Lee

Yeah right -- your the guy who's in my mirror(s) aren't you?

In your dreams.

Lee

[konichd]

Anyway, back on topic.

I wish the magazines would test "real world" scenarios.

For instance add aftermarket exhaust, power commander, K&N air filter, braided brake lines, and then see how the bikes stack up. Who keeps a stock bike anyhow? ;)

Also some of the variables in their test aren't true reflections of the bike. For instance, egro's, I'm 6'2" 180lbs of string bean and the Kawi was the most comfortable litre bike for me. Also there were some comments over the Honda having a "soft seat" these are "opinions" and not factual data.

I still love my Kawi though! :)

[Mista Black]

what the testers at the magazine can do with a gsxr (or a zx-10 or anything else) makes no difference. there are still only a handful of people in the world who can actually make that bike do everything it is capable of doing. to the other 6,613,682,590 people wandering aimlessly trying to decide on a bike it means jack.

until they show me that joe (or jane) smuck average rider can circulate a track or shoot a canyon faster on a liter sport bike than he can on sv650 or a vfr800 (or even, dare i say it, a beemer) i will not look at them as the best bike.

[Nick_Ninja]

Even Lee doesn't know the can-o-worms he's sitting on :D

[Mista Black]

I wish the magazines would test "real world" scenarios.

i wish they'd test real world RIDERS. it's a lot more applicable.

[RYBO]

i wish they'd test real world RIDERS. it's a lot more applicable.

One of the magazines did this not too long ago, where they invited regular riders to be a part of the road test process. They had a page or two at the end of the "official" test with a quick profile and their own times and subjective opinions of the bikes....anyone else remember this?

I thought it was a great concept, haven't seen it in a while and can't remember which magazine did it.

[Nick_Ninja]

Their insurance must have been astronomical.

[rforsythe]

Well in 3 yrs I'll be ready to make a better choice.......... :(

Uh, dude... Can you even ride the "bottom of the barrel" bike you have now, in stock trim, to even 75% of its potential? And I don't mean finding a straight stretch of road and whackin it wide open, I mean using every nuance of what it was designed to do.

My guess is even with a "better choice" you'd still be just as .. fast... ;)

[Mista Black]

amen Reverend Ralphy... the bike is a very small piece of the puzzle. the rider makes a bike fast not visa versa. instead of running out and buying the "greatest" bike on the planet, drop 3 or 4 thousand in racing schools (schwantz, spencer, pridmore, etc) and become a faster rider and you'll actually be able to get a lot more out of what you already have.

[Lee]

There are many riders who ride better than or not as well as I do. I'm somewhere in the middle and I know it.

I have a rationale for picking a bike that is the pick of many professional and amateur riders because of the many good features and processes it has. For me, firearms and shooting are a good analogy: If I have a properly assembled handgun, quality ammunition, and it will shoot quarter sized groups from a mechanical rest, and I then shoot 6 inch groups when I shoot it, what is that telling me? My point is that learning how to do anything well requires the elimination of variables.

So, I bought a bike that fit me well, is widely described as having excellent performance and handling characteristics, and had the suspension tuned to my body weight by a professional suspension expert. That eliminated as many variables as possible. The only variables that are left are my riding skills and my choice of tires.

When I don't take a turn optimally, that pretty much leaves one factor to consider - me and my riding skills. Not being able to wonder about or blame other factors forces me to improve my riding skills.

So, while it's nice to pretend to have bragging rights on owning a GSXR, we all know that we're just kidding each other.

And on that note, I will quote Matt Mladdin, who when asked what he thought of the K5 that he won another world championship on, replied: "It's the finest motorcycle I've ever ridden."

I think his opinion is worth more than mine. :)

Lee

[konichd]

Reverend Ralph! Where's baby Jesus? ;)

Ralph does have a point, hell I'd be lucky getting 25% out of that bike! But the test are more than just "performance" results, egro's, MPG, etc.

So with that said, I'll sell the ZX-10R and buy a bimmer! :)

[Mista Black]

someone else might take the same handgun after you're done and shoot 1 inch groups. until every round is going through the same hole in the target you've not maximized what the gun can do.

mladin can get every shred of performance from a gix1k... the average rider can't even get 40% out of it (it's got twice the power of my bike and i've not found a gix1k in the canyons yet that can run with me on sport touring tires... hence the 40% - i know they're out there, but i've run across enough to know that MOST aint using the 40%).

mladin saying the gix1k is the best he's ridden has zero to do you any other rider unless that other rider is as good as him.

i know a LOT of riders. and i doubt i know more than 20 personally (staying away from the pros) who can even put an sv650 through it's paces at the BIKE's max.

Kent Kunitsugu saying the gix 1k is great means nothing unless i'm as fast as kent. i'm not, so it's pointless for me to listen to him regarding what bike is the best for him.

[Mista Black]

So with that said, I'll sell the ZX-10R and buy a bimmer! :)


Bimmer's are fine automobiles... you'll love it!! :up:

[konichd]

Shaft drive here I come!

[Nick_Ninja]

I'll wait for this to show up on the market --- i hear it will be shaft drive.

http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/images/Kawasaki_GTR14_r.JPG

[rforsythe]

I'll wait for this to show up on the market --- i hear it will be shaft drive.

:lol: Better tell LP that. They're already planning on chain and sprockets for their project 14...

That does look like a fun ride though. And that thing has got to suck your eyeballs back from the accelleration. :shock:

[Mista Black]

shiiiitttttt my beemer could take it :roll:

[Nick_Ninja]

shiiiitttttt my beemer could take it :roll:

Take only more space in a parking lot :turtle:

[konichd]

Jeff I thought:

Beemer = car?
Bimmer = motorcycle?

Maybe I'll hang onto the ZX-10R, the "beemer" terminology is too much for me. :(

[rforsythe]

Jeff I thought:

Beemer = car?
Bimmer = motorcycle?

Maybe I'll hang onto the ZX-10R, the "beemer" terminology is too much for me. :(

What, you don't want to hang out with Jeff at hippie bimmer/beemer group-hug rallies and stuff?

[Mista Black]

nope... beemer is bike... bimmer is car

[Mista Black]

What, you don't want to hang out with Jeff at hippie bimmer/beemer group-hug rallies and stuff?

Give peace a chance, dude...

http://www.8afmuseum.net/giftshop/decals/b1ptofws.jpg

[R1chie]

someone else might take the same handgun after you're done and shoot 1 inch groups. until every round is going through the same hole in the target you've not maximized what the gun can do.

.

I think the argument is fluff. You and I both know that gsxr r1 zx10 are much harder to ride than "standard" bikes and most riders have higher lap times on standard bikes unless you have the skills to ride a crotch rocket. Turning radius, ease of handling riding position make average riders go faster on standard bikes while a gsxr has to be ridden fast (probably too fast for the street) to get the benefits of the frame geometry and handling characteristics.

The only reason (and the best reason) for having a bike like and R1 or a GSRX is because you want one. :D

So while someone on a gsxr which is butt ugly may have a slightly better bike that can never be taken advantage of and is , I style around on an R1 :lol: Where was that emoticon? ...... there it is...http://www.motox.org/forum/stirthepot.gif

[Mista Black]

:wtf: i thought that's what i said... thanks for correcting me... :D

[RYBO]

My point is that learning how to do anything well requires the elimination of variables.

The only variables that are left are my riding skills and my choice of tires.

When I don't take a turn optimally, that pretty much leaves one factor to consider - me and my riding skills. Not being able to wonder about or blame other factors forces me to improve my riding skills.


Point 1- I agree, eliminating variables is a good way to improve skills in a given area, but in the end you have to function in an environment where you have to manage all of the variables at once. Racers learn new tracks by learning one corner at a time, but eventaully they have to find a fast line through the whole track.

Point 2- It's nice to think that you can eliminate all of the variables saving your ability, but this is simply not possible. Air density and temperature affect bike performance, temperature will affect tire adhesion, quality of fuel will affect fuel injection function.

Then there is suspension set up. Many people don't ever bother to set up their suspension to their weight and riding requirements. A rider on a well set up SV650 will be much faster on a given course than that same rider on a poorly set up GSXR1000 every day, every time pretty much without question. Changing types or brands of tires can greatly affect proper suspension set up, as can temperature. There are way more variables than it is possible to control.

Point 3- I don't care what you buy or what you ride, if you are having fun on two wheels then it was worth it. Your money would be well spent on the courses that Jeff mentions above, as well as time with a good suspension set up person.

Point 4- Mat Mladin gets paid by Suzuki, so it is his job to say it's the best bike he's ever ridden. Were he on a Honda or a Beemer he would say the same thing.

This must be a good can of worms, we keep opening it up!

[R1chie]

:wtf: i thought that's what i said... thanks for correcting me... :D That is what you said and I was :imwithstupid:

[konichd]

Well then, who would you guys recommend for setting up my suspension here in Denver? TK, FASTER, or Twin Peaks?

[Lee]

I love to do a post like this and see who responds and what they have to say.

GIXXER envy is sooooo ugly. :)

Lee

[RYBO]

TK just became an Ohlins shop, they've done great work on just about everything I've taken to them. I would give that a shot.

S

[konichd]

Is Bart or Brian the kawi fan down there? :)

I'll stop in Sat. and talk to them, thanks RYBO!

[RYBO]

Bart rides a Kawasaki

Best of luck to you.

[Mista Black]

:wtf: i thought that's what i said... thanks for correcting me... :D That is what you said and I was :imwithstupid:


so now i'm stupid... i see how it is :x


:lol:

[Mista Black]

I love to do a post like this and see who responds and what they have to say.

GIXXER envy is sooooo ugly. :)

Lee


until i have gixxers keeping up with me there's no envy... not from me at least :P

[pg_rider]

TRUTHS

1) GSXR's are ugly. I don't care how fast they are, they're still ugly. Ditto for ZX-10's. (No offense to the owners, but let's call a spade a spade! :lol:)

2) Stock suspension on any of these bikes is WAY more than enough for pretty much anyone on this board. If you don't think so, you're kidding yourself.

3) BMW's are in a completely different class (and no Jeff, it's not a "higher" class! :D).

4) Rich said it right -- the only valid reason for picking any of these bikes is because it stirs your soul To claim that you needed to buy the best performer is, again, kidding yourself because that performance is wasted on you/us. My opinion anyway...

[rockets.redglare]

what time is it?

[rockets.redglare]

He really is

;)

[Monkey]

Can we limit noobs to posting w/o help untill they reach 100 posts?

Is there a way to approve their posts before the rest of the world reads them?

[Spiderman]

Who keeps a stock bike anyhow? ;)
For the street? I do. :D

I will quote Matt Mladdin, who when asked what he thought of the K5 that he won another world championship on, replied: "It's the finest motorcycle I've ever ridden."I'm wondering if his contract even allows him to test other bikes!


If you notice, this guy has a SHOEI helmet, speaks for itself
What the hell is that supposed to mean? :wtf:

[rforsythe]

I'm wondering if his contract even allows him to test other bikes!

No. He can't own or be seen on anything that contradicts his sponsorship - at all.

[Nick_Ninja]

The title of this thread

Own the Racetracks and the Streets


reeks of irresponsibility. one of the major issues facing the sportbike community is the conception that the stock sportbike, right out of the crate, is equal to the bikes found on the track. I say :bs:.

The person that takes this misnomer to the next level will most likely assist in jacking up all our insurance rates and initiate legislation that limits manufacturers providing the horsepower monsters that we all worship.

[Player 2]

Beemer = car?
Bimmer = motorcycle?:gay: no matter how you call it :P

[R1chie]

I think goverment should limit horsepower on street bikes so that the number of horsepower does not exceed the number of pounds the bike weights. :P

Unless of course you build it yourself in which there should be no limit. :D

[R1chie]

. one of the major issues facing the sportbike community is the conception that the stock sportbike, right out of the crate, is equal to the bikes found on the track. I say :bs:.

I wish that would happen, when my bike is as powerful and as light as a MotoGP bike, then I might be happy..... for a while..... maybe.. :D

[Nick_Ninja]

I think goverment should limit horsepower on street bikes so that the number of horsepower does not exceed the number of pounds the bike weights. :P

Unless of course you build it yourself in which there should be no limit. :D

Government has no business limiting the horsepower of a motorcycle as evidenced by this attempted legislation. It was presented in 1987 ---- before many riders here were born, I'm sure.

[web:3542158e27]http://news.motorcycle.com/comments.motml?op=showreply&tid=24416&sid=1158&pid=24395&mode=&order=&thold=[/web:3542158e27]

[rforsythe]

Ahh, so now we ride "rapid acceleration motorcycles". :lol:

It was presented in 1987 ---- before many riders here were born, I'm sure.

I wouldn't go that far... Probably before half the members here were old enough to care or know better maybe.

[R1chie]

I think goverment should limit horsepower on street bikes so that the number of horsepower does not exceed the number of pounds the bike weights. :P

Unless of course you build it yourself in which there should be no limit. :D

Government has no business limiting the horsepower of a motorcycle as evidenced by this attempted legislation. It was presented in 1987 ---- before many riders here were born, I'm sure.

[web:6346f70146]http://news.motorcycle.com/comments.motml?op=showreply&tid=24416&sid=1158&pid=24395&mode=&order=&thold=[/web:6346f70146]

You should know by now I am a republican and really don't think this way. There should be no limits. I was just trying to stir your pot. :)

[Nick_Ninja]

I think goverment should limit horsepower on street bikes so that the number of horsepower does not exceed the number of pounds the bike weights. :P

Unless of course you build it yourself in which there should be no limit. :D

Government has no business limiting the horsepower of a motorcycle as evidenced by this attempted legislation. It was presented in 1987 ---- before many riders here were born, I'm sure.

[web:047b7a552b]http://news.motorcycle.com/comments.motml?op=showreply&tid=24416&sid=1158&pid=24395&mode=&order=&thold=[/web:047b7a552b]

You should know by now I am a republican and really don't think this way. There should be no limits. I was just trying to stir your pot. :)

I'll stir my own pot thank you ----- :siesta:

[rforsythe]

You should know by now I am a republican and really don't think this way. There should be no limits. I was just trying to stir your pot. :)

It was a republican who proposed the damn thing in the first place! :lol:

[R1chie]

I think goverment should limit horsepower on street bikes so that the number of horsepower does not exceed the number of pounds the bike weights. :P

Unless of course you build it yourself in which there should be no limit. :D

Government has no business limiting the horsepower of a motorcycle as evidenced by this attempted legislation. It was presented in 1987 ---- before many riders here were born, I'm sure.

[web:c832d9d31d]http://news.motorcycle.com/comments.motml?op=showreply&tid=24416&sid=1158&pid=24395&mode=&order=&thold=[/web:c832d9d31d]

You should know by now I am a republican and really don't think this way. There should be no limits. I was just trying to stir your pot. :)

I'll stir my own pot thank you ----- :siesta:

I was just seeing if you and I could have a discussion without thermonuclear war.

[R1chie]

You should know by now I am a republican and really don't think this way. There should be no limits. I was just trying to stir your pot. :)

It was a republican who proposed the damn thing in the first place! :lol:

You gotta kick them in the head every once in a while to remind them which side of the fence they are supposed to be on.

[Nick_Ninja]

I think goverment should limit horsepower on street bikes so that the number of horsepower does not exceed the number of pounds the bike weights. :P

Unless of course you build it yourself in which there should be no limit. :D

Government has no business limiting the horsepower of a motorcycle as evidenced by this attempted legislation. It was presented in 1987 ---- before many riders here were born, I'm sure.

[web:0abd701f02]http://news.motorcycle.com/comments.motml?op=showreply&tid=24416&sid=1158&pid=24395&mode=&order=&thold=[/web:0abd701f02]

You should know by now I am a republican and really don't think this way. There should be no limits. I was just trying to stir your pot. :)

I'll stir my own pot thank you ----- :siesta:

I was just seeing if you and I could have a discussion without thermonuclear war.

That will never happen --- just like you will never be able to post all your thoughts in one post ---------- (to be continued)

[Nick_Ninja]

like this ---- get my point.

[RYBO]

TRUTHS
2) Stock suspension on any of these bikes is WAY more than enough for pretty much anyone on this board. If you don't think so, you're kidding yourself.

I couldn't agree more, stock suspension COMPONENTS are plenty good. Stock suspension settings generally are NOT good. You need to adjust the suspension on your bike to suit your weight and riding style.

[KooLaid]

shut up everyone. Ride your lousy bike you lil skirts

[Nick_Ninja]

TRUTHS
2) Stock suspension on any of these bikes is WAY more than enough for pretty much anyone on this board. If you don't think so, you're kidding yourself.

I couldn't agree more, stock suspension COMPONENTS are plenty good. Stock suspension settings generally are NOT good. You need to adjust the suspension on your bike to suit your weight and riding style.

Your assumption only accounts for the average mileage stock pilot. Stock suspension components are s_h_i_t after 50,000 miles. That's why I'm on Öhlins and Race Tech now :D

[rforsythe]

TRUTHS
2) Stock suspension on any of these bikes is WAY more than enough for pretty much anyone on this board. If you don't think so, you're kidding yourself.

I couldn't agree more, stock suspension COMPONENTS are plenty good. Stock suspension settings generally are NOT good. You need to adjust the suspension on your bike to suit your weight and riding style.

Your assumption only accounts for the average mileage stock pilot. Stock suspension components are s_h_i_t after 50,000 miles. That's why I'm on Öhlins and Race Tech now :D

Yes, and in 50,000 miles you'll be needing a rebuild on that stuff too. Suspension is considered a wear item. However, stock parts when fresh are fine for most people, particularly when adjusted for the rider.

[Vance]

I'm thinking after reading how this thread is going NOW would be a really really BAD time to tell people I'm in the process of starting an all new "Picking Vance's New (Litre?) Bike Research Project - v3.0"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Nick_Ninja]

TRUTHS
2) Stock suspension on any of these bikes is WAY more than enough for pretty much anyone on this board. If you don't think so, you're kidding yourself.

I couldn't agree more, stock suspension COMPONENTS are plenty good. Stock suspension settings generally are NOT good. You need to adjust the suspension on your bike to suit your weight and riding style.

Your assumption only accounts for the average mileage stock pilot. Stock suspension components are s_h_i_t after 50,000 miles. That's why I'm on Öhlins and Race Tech now :D

Yes, and in 50,000 miles you'll be needing a rebuild on that stuff too. Suspension is considered a wear item. However, stock parts when fresh are fine for most people, particularly when adjusted for the rider.

When I bought my current bike I had the suspension 'dialed' by a well respected race technician. It worked OK but wasn't anything like after market components --- even used aftermarket components (and I had those on the '79 Honda CBX from new to 24,000 miles). When I purchase my new sled I plan on swapping out the stock suspension for the aftermarket cha-cha stuff ASAP.

My newly installed suspension components won't see 20K ----- the bike will be retired after this season :twisted: HEY VANCE! WANNA BUY MY BIKE?

[Vance]

HEY VANCE! WANNA BUY MY BIKE?

Unless there is absolutely positively no way I can buy new - new is the game plan for the moment before I ponder used... that is... unless an absolutely IMMACULATE silver 2001 Daytona 955i were to fall in my lap at an irresistible price. I don't think I could pass up another 1st Gen 955i if it came along.

So of course that means the default starting list is (in no particular order) (notice I'm not putting a year on there either because while I'm hoping to be pursuing '06s before the season's end - I may not be able to buy until NEXT spring :( )

Honda CBR1000RR
Kawasaki ZX-10R
Suzuki GSX-R1000
Yamaha R1
Aprilia RSV-R or Factory
Ducati 999
Triumph Daytona 955i
(unrealistically by excessive cost) MV Agusta F4 1+1

Also being considered in the mix as legitimate candidates are:
Suzuki GSX-R750
Triumph Daytona 675
Honda RC-51

At least - those are the ones I can think of. I keep thinking I'm forgetting about a MFG somewhere - but that seems like the default list anyway.

Last go around on this - the Aprilia came out the winner with the CBR1000RR #2 - but of course in that Research Project (v2.0) the GSX-R and the R1 were arbitrarily removed from the candidacy, the Daytona 675 didn't exist, and the GSX-R750 wasn't in the running (but the Ducati 749 was).

So... the slow steady process of research begins here I guess.

[Nick_Ninja]

Wher's the MV Agusta in your list? :D

[~Barn~]

I love to do a post like this and see who responds and what they have to say.

GIXXER envy is sooooo ugly. :)

Lee

Envy might be ugly, but it's nowhere near as funny as watching 1 or 2 "Gixxer-Guys" perform their broadcast affirmations. :lol:

Just remember fellas. (Lee... Frank...) When someone or something, is really the shit, there's no need to tell anybody. They just are.

That being said, we all look forward to your next proclamation.
:D

[freezincold]

mladin can get every shred of performance from a gix1k... the average rider can't even get 40% out of it (it's got twice the power of my bike and i've not found a gix1k in the canyons yet that can run with me on sport touring tires... hence the 40% - i know they're out there, but i've run across enough to know that MOST aint using the 40%).

.

This is one of those things where you are right and so is Lee.

As long as everyone likes what they are riding...they are right too.

Even if the "drag race" for one "contestant" of the "race" is really just a leisurly roll away from the stop light.

Reality is that we are all posers and really do care (at least a little) what others think of our bikes. The reality is they are all kick ass bikes.

[R1chie]

like this ---- get my point.

Ok a tactical nuke but no war so it is a little better.

[R1chie]

Unless there is absolutely positively no way I can buy new - new is the game plan for the moment before I ponder used... that is... unless an absolutely IMMACULATE silver 2001 Daytona 955i were to fall in my lap at an irresistible price. I don't think I could pass up another 1st Gen 955i if it came along.

So of course that means the default starting list is (in no particular order) (notice I'm not putting a year on there either because while I'm hoping to be pursuing '06s before the season's end - I may not be able to buy until NEXT spring :( )
.

I thought you just bought a new bike a Mille or Arpila something. Why are you looking for a new bike. I remember the count down and everything. Big event. Why are you looking for another?

[freezincold]

go to R1 forum to check out what he's talking about! :)

I love to do a post like this and see who responds and what they have to say.

GIXXER envy is sooooo ugly. :)

Lee

Envy might be ugly, but it's nowhere near as funny as watching 1 or 2 "Gixxer-Guys" perform their broadcast affirmations. :lol:

Just remember fellas. (Lee... Frank...) When someone or something, is really the shit, there's no need to tell anybody. They just are.

That being said, we all look forward to your next proclamation.
:D

[~Barn~]

R1 forum you say? I think I'll pass. I don't doubt that every bike out there has it's share of self-gloss websites, clubs, and the like.

I actually had always thought that's what seperates CSC'ers from the horde of "brand specific" zealots out there. :dunno:

Don't get me wrong... I'm not discounting the silliness of brand loyalty across the gamut, I'm just saying that when it happens here we know who it's gonna come from. And worse-more, we know that they actually believe themselves! :lol:

Those of us who have been around long enough are just content to dig what we dig, know that we're gonna be as fast as we are, regardless of "mount", and agree that Honda sucks.

[dapper]

R1 forum you say? I think I'll pass. I don't doubt that every bike out there has it's share of self-gloss websites, clubs, and the like.

I actually had always thought that's what seperates CSC'ers from the horde of "brand specific" zealots out there. :dunno:

Don't get me wrong... I'm not discounting the silliness of brand loyalty across the gamut, I'm just saying that when it happens here we know who it's gonna come from. And worse-more, we know that they actually believe themselves! :lol:

Those of us who have been around long enough are just content to dig what we dig, know that we're gonna be as fast as we are, regardless of "mount", and agree that Honda sucks.
:up:

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

You know Lee, I really HATE it when you post stuff like this! :D

Well, I looked at the magazine articles when I bought mine. At the time, the 1K was SO far ahead of everything else, there simply was no other choice. And mine's completely stock BTW. Even the recent articles have the 1K a close second overall at worst, and many times faster around the track than the ZX. Plus, it's easier to ride fast. As endurance racers (car and bike) have found, it's easier to consistantly go fast on a bike you trust more than one that's a little smidge faster, but tires you out or spooks you every lap.

And Mr. Black, I'd just have to say you simply haven't had the right 1K owner in FRONT of you! :D I watched Doug scrape the engine cases regularly on his on our track day, and we were running a pretty equal pace on a really tight track (Erie). Seems to me your cases are, um, a little virgin to be talking dat stuff?! :D

[Lee]

The title of this thread

Own the Racetracks and the Streets


reeks of irresponsibility.

It was a play on words based on Suzuki commercials. I apologize for you not getting it.

As far as being a responsible rider:

Motorcyclists of all stripes have been widely condemned as social pariahs and a low-life subculture for over 100 years. You and I are not going to change the public perception of riders in our lifetimes. I'm not even going to try.

I ride in any manner I want to at any speed I want to and I don't apologize for it. If you want to be a "nice" motorcyclist and make that your life's work, be my guest.

Lee

[Lee]

Envy might be ugly, but it's nowhere near as funny as watching 1 or 2 "Gixxer-Guys" perform their broadcast affirmations. :lol:

Just remember fellas. (Lee... Frank...) When someone or something, is really the shit, there's no need to tell anybody. They just are.

That being said, we all look forward to your next proclamation.
:D

Barn, I just couldn't wait until the next GIXXER Woodstock weekend. :)

Lee

[Lee]

As long as everyone likes what they are riding...they are right too.

Even if the "drag race" for one "contestant" of the "race" is really just a leisurly roll away from the stop light.

Reality is that we are all posers and really do care (at least a little) what others think of our bikes. The reality is they are all kick ass bikes.

:up: So true.

I don't think any 2 of us have exactly the same reasons for owning even the same motorcycle. My son, my wife, and I all own GSX-R1000s and even though we share a lot of the same reasons for it, our focus is different.

Lee

[Clarkie]

TRUTHS

2) Stock suspension on any of these bikes is WAY more than enough for pretty much anyone on this board. If you don't think so, you're kidding yourself.

That's a pretty bold statement dont you think? Just because some of us dont post a lot, doesnt mean we dont read the posts ;)

[Nick_Ninja]

The title of this thread

Own the Racetracks and the Streets


reeks of irresponsibility.

It was a play on words based on Suzuki commercials. I apologize for you not getting it.

As far as being a responsible rider:

Motorcyclists of all stripes have been widely condemned as social pariahs and human trash for over 100 years. You and I are not going to change the public perception of riders in our lifetimes. I'm not even going to try.

I ride in any manner I want to at any speed I want to and I don't apologize for it. If you want to be a "nice" motorcyclist and make that your life's work, be my guest.

Lee

You don't have to apologize for me "not getting it." And it is not my intention to carry the flag of social responsibility. Your demeanor on the roads of America is your business. However, I will say this to you --- you obviously don't have a clue who your audience is here on this board, or the other board for that matter.

N_N

[Monkey]

You guys seriously need to quit scrubbing the bugs.

[Feathered upstart!]

I know John Hoppkins loves his Suzuki....

Its amazing how one brand of motorcycles can be summed up in one little gif.

[Monkey]

I'm sure he's trying to kick start it.

[R1chie]

TRUTHS

2) Stock suspension on any of these bikes is WAY more than enough for pretty much anyone on this board. If you don't think so, you're kidding yourself.

That's a pretty bold statement dont you think? Just because some of us dont post a lot, doesnt mean we dont read the posts ;)

I think he is saying for most of us that just ride the street the suspension is way more than adequate. For racers that is a different story. I would bet that even beginner or novices MRA guys could do fine with stock suspension, it is not until you get faster that you really need better suspension (that is the way it is in motocross racing and they pound that suspension much harder off of jumps than the street guys do). I am not an expert but the quality, weight, and performance of stock parts is pretty high and unless you are in the points hunt.

I would go as far to say that Pro MRA riders on a completely stock bike could smoke a novice or intermediate racer riding the most trick best suspended on the track today. Don't some of the R1's come stock with Olins shock and forks?

[Lee]

You know Lee, I really HATE it when you post stuff like this! :D

You only hate it because I beat you to it. :D :D :D

Lee

[Lee]

However, I will say this to you --- you obviously don't have a clue who your audience is here on this board, or the other board for that matter.N_N

Keep the advice coming, Jeff. I'm listening. :roll:

Lee

[Lee]

I know John Hoppkins loves his Suzuki....

Its amazing how one brand of motorcycles can be summed up in one little gif.

No. It's amazing how one model of motorcycle can be summed up in one little gif.

The Suzuki MotoGP bike does not have the right stuff. Having an engineering background, I can tell you that each model of motorcycle is engineered by a different engineering team. Each model is only as good as the team that engineers it.

John Hopkins and Chris Vermuelen are both excellent riders. I hope that choosing to ride Suzuki in MotoGP does not damage their careers. That bike seems to have a long way to go just to finish a race.

Lee

[Clarkie]

TRUTHS

2) Stock suspension on any of these bikes is WAY more than enough for pretty much anyone on this board. If you don't think so, you're kidding yourself.

That's a pretty bold statement dont you think? Just because some of us dont post a lot, doesnt mean we dont read the posts ;)

I think he is saying for most of us that just ride the street the suspension is way more than adequate. For racers that is a different story. I would bet that even beginner or novices MRA guys could do fine with stock suspension, it is not until you get faster that you really need better suspension (that is the way it is in motocross racing and they pound that suspension much harder off of jumps than the street guys do). I am not an expert but the quality, weight, and performance of stock parts is pretty high and unless you are in the points hunt.

I would go as far to say that Pro MRA riders on a completely stock bike could smoke a novice or intermediate racer riding the most trick best suspended on the track today. Don't some of the R1's come stock with Olins shock and forks?

and yet i have revalved and resprung stock suspension for a multitude of 'Street Riders' who were amazed at the difference ;)

I could guarantee the difference would be felt within 10 miles, but hey, since "Stock suspension on any of these bikes is WAY more than enough for pretty much anyone on this board. If you don't think so, you're kidding yourself" I guess you are all doomed to ride around on crappy OEM Suspension :D

The Ohlins suspension that comes on some OEM bikes (Aprilia, Ducati, R1-LE etc) is made in Japan and the valving isnt a lot better than the mass produced Kayaba/Showa/Sacs suspension

[pg_rider]

TRUTHS

2) Stock suspension on any of these bikes is WAY more than enough for pretty much anyone on this board. If you don't think so, you're kidding yourself.

That's a pretty bold statement dont you think? Just because some of us dont post a lot, doesnt mean we dont read the posts ;)

I think he is saying for most of us that just ride the street the suspension is way more than adequate. For racers that is a different story. I would bet that even beginner or novices MRA guys could do fine with stock suspension, it is not until you get faster that you really need better suspension (that is the way it is in motocross racing and they pound that suspension much harder off of jumps than the street guys do). I am not an expert but the quality, weight, and performance of stock parts is pretty high and unless you are in the points hunt.

I would go as far to say that Pro MRA riders on a completely stock bike could smoke a novice or intermediate racer riding the most trick best suspended on the track today. Don't some of the R1's come stock with Olins shock and forks?

and yet i have revalved and resprung stock suspension for a multitude of 'Street Riders' who were amazed at the difference ;)

I could guarantee the difference would be felt within 10 miles, but hey, since "Stock suspension on any of these bikes is WAY more than enough for pretty much anyone on this board. If you don't think so, you're kidding yourself" I guess you are all doomed to ride around on crappy OEM Suspension :D

The Ohlins suspension that comes on some OEM bikes (Aprilia, Ducati, R1-LE etc) is made in Japan and the valving isnt a lot better than the mass produced Kayaba/Showa/Sacs suspension
Can something always be improved? Of course. But is it NECESSARY? Of course not. My point is that too many riders these days get hung up on thinking they just NEED to "fix" their suspension right out of the box. I see posts like that every single day on other forums -- "my new R1 shakes it head all the way around Willow Springs, and my tires were sliding everywhere, so I need new suspension". Me: "Really? What were your laptimes?" Them: "Around 1:48". Me: "Really? Cuz I was doing 34's on my old '99 with blown out suspension and didn't get a bit of shake or sliding."

Anyway, if people have money to burn and want to improve their suspension, fine. Just don't tell me you NEED to do it.... :)

[Vance]

I thought you just bought a new bike a Mille or Arpila something. Why are you looking for a new bike. I remember the count down and everything. Big event. Why are you looking for another?

My '03 Aprilia RSV-R became the harshest casualty of circumstances of my divorce in November. She's gone. No longer. I am without motorcycle. :(

[Lee]

The Ohlins suspension that comes on some OEM bikes (Aprilia, Ducati, R1-LE etc) is made in Japan and the valving isnt a lot better than the mass produced Kayaba/Showa/Sacs suspension

The GSX-R1000 stock suspension did pretty well in the tests. Mine seems to be excellent but I'm not an expert on suspensions.

I'm going to show my ignorance here and ask what would be the perceived differences between an Ohlins and a Showa suspension?

You had indicated that Showa suspensions are mass-produced. Does that diminish their quality and/or performance compared to Ohlins?

Are Showa suspensions standard equipment on any sportbikes?

Lee

[Lee]

My '03 Aprilia RSV-R became the harshest casualty of circumstances of my divorce in November. She's gone. No longer. I am without motorcycle. :(

I am so sorry to hear this. I hope and wish for you to get another motorcycle, soon.

Lee

[R1chie]

TRUTHS

2) Stock suspension on any of these bikes is WAY more than enough for pretty much anyone on this board. If you don't think so, you're kidding yourself.

That's a pretty bold statement dont you think? Just because some of us dont post a lot, doesnt mean we dont read the posts ;)

I think he is saying for most of us that just ride the street the suspension is way more than adequate. For racers that is a different story. I would bet that even beginner or novices MRA guys could do fine with stock suspension, it is not until you get faster that you really need better suspension (that is the way it is in motocross racing and they pound that suspension much harder off of jumps than the street guys do). I am not an expert but the quality, weight, and performance of stock parts is pretty high and unless you are in the points hunt.

I would go as far to say that Pro MRA riders on a completely stock bike could smoke a novice or intermediate racer riding the most trick best suspended on the track today. Don't some of the R1's come stock with Olins shock and forks?

and yet i have revalved and resprung stock suspension for a multitude of 'Street Riders' who were amazed at the difference ;)

I could guarantee the difference would be felt within 10 miles, but hey, since "Stock suspension on any of these bikes is WAY more than enough for pretty much anyone on this board. If you don't think so, you're kidding yourself" I guess you are all doomed to ride around on crappy OEM Suspension :D

The Ohlins suspension that comes on some OEM bikes (Aprilia, Ducati, R1-LE etc) is made in Japan and the valving isn’t a lot better than the mass produced Kayaba/Showa/Sacs suspension

I guess IMHO in really never thought of revalving non stock suspension. Maybe MRA/AMA considers that not stock. Valving and respringing is part of tuning and adjustment IMHO. Making the bike suited to the particular riders. motocrossers do this as well. I thought that "tuned" suspension is still stock but that just may be my way of thinking about it. If you replace the suspension (as you would exhaust) would be non stock, changing spring rates or oil flow rates (repacking the stock exhaust or rejetting the bike, to me would be an adjustment IMHO but I don't know the rules for AMA/MRA.

I thought that Yamaha put Olins suspension to get around the Superstock rules about changing suspension, I did not know that revalving could be considered non-stock.

[R1chie]

I thought you just bought a new bike a Mille or Arpila something. Why are you looking for a new bike. I remember the count down and everything. Big event. Why are you looking for another?

My '03 Aprilia RSV-R became the harshest casualty of circumstances of my divorce in November. She's gone. No longer. I am without motorcycle. :(

Wow. I am sorry to hear that. I fully expected for you to say it was stolen or crashed in which case the insurance would have covered it. Losing a bike that way does seem way more harsh. Hope you can get a new one soon.

[R1chie]

Can something always be improved? Of course. But is it NECESSARY? Of course not. My point is that too many riders these days get hung up on thinking they just NEED to "fix" their suspension right out of the box. I see posts like that every single day on other forums -- "my new R1 shakes it head all the way around Willow Springs, and my tires were sliding everywhere, so I need new suspension". Me: "Really? What were your laptimes?" Them: "Around 1:48". Me: "Really? Cuz I was doing 34's on my old '99 with blown out suspension and didn't get a bit of shake or sliding."

Anyway, if people have money to burn and want to improve their suspension, fine. Just don't tell me you NEED to do it.... :)

I agree, noob riders will sometimes blame poor handling on suspension yet they have not even set up ride height/sag which makes a major change in handling.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I thought you just bought a new bike a Mille or Arpila something. Why are you looking for a new bike. I remember the count down and everything. Big event. Why are you looking for another?

My '03 Aprilia RSV-R became the harshest casualty of circumstances of my divorce in November. She's gone. No longer. I am without motorcycle. :(

Sorry to hear that Vance, trust me, I know. I will, however, take exception to your assertion that your BIKE is the greatest casualty of your divorce. It is ALWAYS your children. Trust me on that too brother. In some ways though, it can make you a better father. I know I love and cherish and appreciate mine all the more now that I have so limited time with them. Best of luck.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I know John Hoppkins loves his Suzuki....

Its amazing how one brand of motorcycles can be summed up in one little gif.

It's a know fact that the Suzuki has sucked in MotoGP since '01. They are the smallest manufacturer with the smallest rescources. However, especially with the 2-strokes, these bikes have NOTHING in common with streetbikes other than 2 wheels. The class SPECIFIES prototype parts, and makes ILLEGAL any production parts.

So, Superstock, and AMA SBK and WSB, endurance racing, and Isle Of Man are all WAY more relevant to the street bikes we ride. So, really, the gif that best represents Suzuki is Mladin, Spies, Corser, or Yates instead. I can't remember another make dominating the American racetracks (that WE get to ride on) like Suzuki. Ever. You, obviously, must ride an "off" brand.

Gixxer-envy, it's a terrible thing..... :lol:

[Lee]

Cycle_Monkey,

You are so "bad". :lol:

Lee

[BHeth]

Damn, this is a funny thread! It reminds me of being a kid and hearing my sister and her friend argue whether it's "the meat or the motion".

It's all just a dick swinging contest.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Looking gooooood so far!

http://www.cyclenews.com/ShowStory.asp?HeadlineID=9228

[freezincold]

hahaha! Do you get together with the others at Deals Gap once a year? Actually it is pretty cool. But a whole bunch of R1 riders all gathering together seems like the pinnacle of back slapping.


R1 forum you say? I think I'll pass. I don't doubt that every bike out there has it's share of self-gloss websites, clubs, and the like.

I actually had always thought that's what seperates CSC'ers from the horde of "brand specific" zealots out there. :dunno:

Don't get me wrong... I'm not discounting the silliness of brand loyalty across the gamut, I'm just saying that when it happens here we know who it's gonna come from. And worse-more, we know that they actually believe themselves! :lol:

Those of us who have been around long enough are just content to dig what we dig, know that we're gonna be as fast as we are, regardless of "mount", and agree that Honda sucks.

[freezincold]

As long as everyone likes what they are riding...they are right too.

Even if the "drag race" for one "contestant" of the "race" is really just a leisurly roll away from the stop light.

Reality is that we are all posers and really do care (at least a little) what others think of our bikes. The reality is they are all kick ass bikes.

:up: So true.

I don't think any 2 of us have exactly the same reasons for owning even the same motorcycle. My son, my wife, and I all own GSX-R1000s and even though we share a lot of the same reasons for it, our focus is different.

Lee

Sweet! you get a new bike every year and then your wife gets a year old bike every year...and your son gets a two year old bike every year?

You are 'THE MAN"!!!!!

[~Barn~]

hahaha! Do you get together with the others at Deals Gap once a year? Actually it is pretty cool. But a whole bunch of R1 riders all gathering together seems like the pinnacle of back slapping.

No, I've never been to The Gap before, but one of these years, I'd like to go.

And you're kinda right. A bunch of R1 riders gathering together is kinda funny and back-slapping, as you say. It's especially more gay, if they are exclusionary of others [bikes]. I'm pretty sure I had just said how silly extreme brand loyalty is. :think:

But I'll tell you one thing... I'd rather be an R1 guy, or a Buell guy, or a Suzuki guy, and actually get out, gather, and ride with people in our exclusive club, than I would EVER want to be "anybrand" guy, and find myself posting up on the internet about how dominating my rig is.
:lol:

Talk about showing everybody how proud you are, of being 180 degrees removed from the motorcycling community.

[denverbusa]

What he said!

Who cares what you're riddin', just get out there. The rest is just fodder. If you think you can beat another rider just because you are on the bike that won THIS years comparo you are the one that will soon be trying to find replacement parts.

I revel in the fact that not too many bikes can keep up with the Busa on HP hill but beyond that it is rider skill and little else. An old ZX-9 gave me a run for my money up the hill past that he left me in the dirt, even if i had been on a brand new GSXR1000 he still would have left me in the dirt.

Its rider skill nothing else.

[Vance]

Sorry to hear that Vance, trust me, I know. I will, however, take exception to your assertion that your BIKE is the greatest casualty of your divorce. It is ALWAYS your children. Trust me on that too brother. In some ways though, it can make you a better father. I know I love and cherish and appreciate mine all the more now that I have so limited time with them. Best of luck.

True enough. I should have said greatest OBJECT casualty.

[Clarkie]

You had indicated that Showa suspensions are mass-produced. Does that diminish their quality and/or performance compared to Ohlins?

Are Showa suspensions standard equipment on any sportbikes?

Lee

Ohlins is owned by Yamaha, so the mass produced Ohlins (OEN stock on the R1-LE, 999R, RSV-R Factory etc) are made in Japan, the Ohlins that you see on Superbikes are all made in Sweeden and they are very very different.

some of the easy to spot differences are things like steel pistons, non-tapered needles, poorly designed shim stacks, overly stiff fork seals that are built to withstand wheelies (they also create a lot of stiction)

for the 'stock vs tuned' question anything that retains the stock outer components is thought of as tuned, that is in AMA Supersport/Superstock, WSS, MRA etc racing where you must use the OEM forks that is the only thing stock about them, most racers use an aftermarket 25mm internal cartridge (Ohlins, K-Tech, GP Suspension etc) with specific valving suited to the riders wants and needs, there are high flow pistons, high velocity pistons, preloaded shim stacks, preloaded mid valves etc.

One misconception is that the R1-LE Ohlins forks are an advantage over the stock forks on the GSXR/CBR/ZX-10R but in race trim they can all be made to work just as well as each other, the key is the internals not the body.


like it was mentioned, everything can be made better, the question is would you be faster on the street/track with a $1000 exhaust or $1000 worth of suspension valving/setup ;)

Too many people think about making their bike faster, the key to making the ride easier and more enjoyable it to get you bike set up so it stops and turns easy. this can mean as little as setting the sag for you weight, but in a lot of cases it means getting rid of the OEM valving and using an aftermarket kit

Suspension tuning is often thought of as a 'black art' but in reality it is just about understanding what each component does and how it effects the bike in motion 8)

[Mista Black]

I could guarantee the difference would be felt within 10 miles

being able to feel it and being able to take advantage of it are two completely different things. just like a person knowing they're on an awesome machine and being able to do anything with it are two different things.

i think we can all agree that Hayden's RC211V is a faster, more powerful and better handling bike than a street legal Gix 1k, but i'd be willing to throw down money that there are few "sport bike" riders reading this right now who could navigate a single lap without crashing or stalling it.

rather than buying a $10+k bike and tossing $3k in aftermarket goodies at it, the average rider would be better off, throwing the $3k at riding schools. the goodies will make him less able to reach the bikes potential. the schools will get him closer.

[R1chie]

Ohlins is owned by Yamaha, so the mass produced Ohlins (OEN stock on the R1-LE, 999R, RSV-R Factory etc) are made in Japan, the Ohlins that you see on Superbikes are all made in Sweeden and they are very very different.

One misconception is that the R1-LE Ohlins forks are an advantage over the stock forks on the GSXR/CBR/ZX-10R but in race trim they can all be made to work just as well as each other, the key is the internals not the body.

So what you are saying is there is no advantage to paying thousands more for an LE over the Standard R1 and that you are really only paying for the name Limited edition? (and the wheels) Yamaha did that with the dirt bike and charged $200 more, the previous year street bike LE's were a little more expensive but 18,000? I suppose the wheels may have done that but this article "suggests" the forks are Swedish and outright says the shock is Swedish. http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_0512_yamaha_yzf_r1_le/

The article could be wrong and I am no expert but if the internal parts of the LE forks are no better than stock and have no advantage over the other brands, Yamaha is pulling the wool over some peoples eyes and making a lot of money in the process.

[Mista Black]

you didn't need to wait for him to say it... i've been saying it for months... it looks pretty good though...

and i know my Ohlins is Swedish :D

[Lee]

Sweet! you get a new bike every year and then your wife gets a year old bike every year...and your son gets a two year old bike every year?

You are 'THE MAN"!!!!!

Well, sort of, except in a slightly different order. :) My son owns a K4, I own a K5, my wife owns a K6. She's "DA WOMAN" 8) .

[freezincold]

Ohlins is owned by Yamaha, so the mass produced Ohlins (OEN stock on the R1-LE, 999R, RSV-R Factory etc) are made in Japan, the Ohlins that you see on Superbikes are all made in Sweeden and they are very very different.

One misconception is that the R1-LE Ohlins forks are an advantage over the stock forks on the GSXR/CBR/ZX-10R but in race trim they can all be made to work just as well as each other, the key is the internals not the body.

So what you are saying is there is no advantage to paying thousands more for an LE over the Standard R1 and that you are really only paying for the name Limited edition? (and the wheels) Yamaha did that with the dirt bike and charged $200 more, the previous year street bike LE's were a little more expensive but 18,000? I suppose the wheels may have done that but this article "suggests" the forks are Swedish and outright says the shock is Swedish. http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_0512_yamaha_yzf_r1_le/

The article could be wrong and I am no expert but if the internal parts of the LE forks are no better than stock and have no advantage over the other brands, Yamaha is pulling the wool over some peoples eyes and making a lot of money in the process.


Nope...what is being said..in not so many words is that we would all be better off on NINJA 250's. Most of us could then utilize 88% of the total perfomance available with said bike.

Then, everyone would be happy right?

Personally I would like an RC211V with headlight and tail light please.

Lee- I don't know what to say. I don't know how I feel about that. Please tell me you get the 07. Or is your wife standing over your shoulder right now?

:)

[Lee]

freezincold,

My son is 35 years old so he has to buy his own bikes. No hand-me-downs for that kid. A K7 for me? I don't know. I like my K5 so much, I think I'll wear it out first, then get another one. That might take a few years; I really take care of my motorcycles.

My wife's K6? It's her first sportbike (3rd motorcycle) and there's a story behind it. We've had to make some expensive mods to her K6 so she could ride it (she's 4'10" tall, with a 26 inch inseam), so I think we'll keep it for a while. (I've nicknamed it the Mini-Gixxer.)

Right now, we've got the motorcycles of our dreams (including the FJR). We're inclined to ride them until they wear out. Considering the quality of Japanese motorcycles, we might wear out first. :)

Lee

[Mac020]

The Ducati looked pretty good at Monza tonight. :lol:

[Clarkie]

Ohlins is owned by Yamaha, so the mass produced Ohlins (OEN stock on the R1-LE, 999R, RSV-R Factory etc) are made in Japan, the Ohlins that you see on Superbikes are all made in Sweeden and they are very very different.

One misconception is that the R1-LE Ohlins forks are an advantage over the stock forks on the GSXR/CBR/ZX-10R but in race trim they can all be made to work just as well as each other, the key is the internals not the body.

So what you are saying is there is no advantage to paying thousands more for an LE over the Standard R1 and that you are really only paying for the name Limited edition? (and the wheels) Yamaha did that with the dirt bike and charged $200 more, the previous year street bike LE's were a little more expensive but 18,000? I suppose the wheels may have done that but this article "suggests" the forks are Swedish and outright says the shock is Swedish. http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_0512_yamaha_yzf_r1_le/

The article could be wrong and I am no expert but if the internal parts of the LE forks are no better than stock and have no advantage over the other brands, Yamaha is pulling the wool over some peoples eyes and making a lot of money in the process.

nope, bone stock vs bone stock the R1-LE will work better, but revalved vs revalved will be about the same, the question is do you take the $18,000 R1-LE or buy the basic R1 and revalve the forks, add a shock and wheels, then the only real difference is the slipper clutch which is a HUGE advantage on the track over the stock non-slipper clutch on the R1 ;)

[Clarkie]

I could guarantee the difference would be felt within 10 miles

being able to feel it and being able to take advantage of it are two completely different things. just like a person knowing they're on an awesome machine and being able to do anything with it are two different things.

using your theory everyone should be riding on a totally stock exhaust right?

if a rider can feel the difference of properly set up suspension in 10 miles it will mean that the bike is more stable under accelerating, braking, turning (you know that riding thing everyone goes on about), so if the bike is better and easier to ride does it mean that they are using it to it's fullest potential? No

does it mean that they can enjoy their riding more because the suspension is workinf with them rather than against them? YES!

I see people on the street fighting their bikes mid corner all the time, it doesnt take much to fix the problem, but usually people just sprout off about how they are wasting $3000 on suspension and should be doing a riding school when it may only take 10 minutes with a tape measure and some basic tools to fix the problem :lol:

[Nick_Ninja]

It is good and I will be the judge ------- :321:

[rforsythe]

As someone who has tried it both ways...

- Stock suspension isn't as good as the trickest shit you can buy, but it's adequate for the average rider on the street. It's even adequate for the average trackday rider, at least before they get fast.
- Like anything else, it needs to be set up properly! Like Clarkie I've seen people revel in the new suspension they just maxed out the Visa card to buy, but half the time they never bothered to set up the stock parts to *their* riding style, weight, etc so the comparison doesn't mean as much.
- A lot of riders don't seem to realize that the suspension as it comes from the factory is usually set up for a midget. Google for the instructions, there are dozens of good pages out there on how to (1) set it up and (2) fine tune it from there. After you've done that and ridden a little while, you can appreciate the aftermarket stuff more (or decide if you even need it).
- Replacing the fork internals and bolting on a new shock is common practice among racers. The parts move smoother, and can be purpose-built to that rider (as well as being more adjustable). This will even benefit the more skilled street riders, though most of the people I see out riding are only fast in a straight line anyway, so they'd benefit more from just setting up what they do have and maybe replacing the fork oil, and gaining some experience or education.

Oh ... Who cares what the magazines say? Ride what you like. Every motorcycle will get you where you need to be, get one that makes you arrive with a smile!

[Nick_Ninja]

As someone who has tried it both ways...

- Stock suspension isn't as good as the trickest sh!t you can buy, but it's adequate for the average rider on the street. It's even adequate for the average trackday rider, at least before they get fast.
- Like anything else, it needs to be set up properly! Like Clarkie I've seen people revel in the new suspension they just maxed out the Visa card to buy, but half the time they never bothered to set up the stock parts to *their* riding style, weight, etc so the comparison doesn't mean as much.
- A lot of riders don't seem to realize that the suspension as it comes from the factory is usually set up for a midget. Google for the instructions, there are dozens of good pages out there on how to (1) set it up and (2) fine tune it from there. After you've done that and ridden a little while, you can appreciate the aftermarket stuff more (or decide if you even need it).
- Replacing the fork internals and bolting on a new shock is common practice among racers. The parts move smoother, and can be purpose-built to that rider (as well as being more adjustable). This will even benefit the more skilled street riders, though most of the people I see out riding are only fast in a straight line anyway, so they'd benefit more from just setting up what they do have and maybe replacing the fork oil, and gaining some experience or education.

Oh ... Who cares what the magazines say? Ride what you like. Every motorcycle will get you where you need to be, get one that makes you arrive with a smile!


Good advise! I can't believe the direct effect to braking a trick suspension set up has too. Way more responsive and controlled.

[Lee]

rforsythe,

Please tell me a little about fork oil.

What is recommended?

How often should it be changed?

Is the stock fork oil satisfactory until the first change interval?

Lee

[rforsythe]

Well, heavier oil will slow down / stiffen things up a bit. Check your manual to see what weight they recommend, since that's probably what it came with. From there you can decide to change viscosity or leave it the same.

The fork oil picks up contamination through the seals over time, and like any other oil just "works better new". To that end I'd say replace it at least every couple years, or if you ride the bike hard on the street at least once a year. I know some racers who do it way more often, but IMO that is completely unnecessary on the street.

Stock oil is fine, just know that it should get replaced at some point. Any of the local speed shops will sell the higher end stuff, which is engineered to avoid frothing up and retain its performance longer. Given that you don't need much of it, spend the money on the good stuff.

Changing it does require pulling the forks off the bike, so you'll need a triple-tree stand or some other way of securely supporting the front end.
- Lift bike up, make sure it won't fall over
- Pull the front wheel (this also involves unbolting the calipers)
- Measure how far the fork caps stick up above the top triple clamp. You'll need this for later.
- Take note of your settings (preload, rebound, compression), you'll need these for later. Just count the clicks or turns to back it out.
- Loosen but do not remove the cap on the top of the fork. It's just easier to loosen it while on the bike.
- Pull forks out by loosening the triple clamp screws and sliding them out.
- Take off the cap, make note of loose parts on top that you may want to remove.
- Dump contents of fork tube into a bucket or suitable oil disposal container. Compress and extend the assembly several times to really get it out.
- Refill with the service manual's recommended amount of fork oil, reassemble reverse of how you took it apart. When putting the tubes back in, make sure they're the same height above the triple as when you took them out, and are both exactly the same. Torque the cap to service manual spec!
- Torque the triple clamp bolts to service manual spec!
- Reset the settings, remount the wheel and calipers, bounce it a few times and go for a ride.

Note the reference to a service manual several times. Get one, either paper or in PDF form -- I like the PDF versions myself, I can re-print the pages I get oil and chemicals all over, and mark them up for certain projects without trashing my only paper copy. I also don't feel bad about lending it out to people, or bringing it to the track where all things have a finite life.

[Feathered upstart!]

You know Suzuki doesnt support anyone in BSS or WSS... Which to me seems a little strange when you hear the "Own the race track" ads.

[Beotch]

Yeah, well....I now have 2 suzukis sitting in my garage? Does that make me god or just stupid?

BTW, I think I read a total of 5 posts in this entire thread. Being a girl, I am entitled to speak about things of which I know nothing about and be reveered for it.

[Mista Black]

no you're not