what kind of improvement should be expected from a pciii

[rider955i]

I am thinking about installing a power commander on my bike but dont know if will be worth it if it is what kind of improvements should I expect? I ride a triumph 02 daytona 955i.

[pauliep]

it's handles the stack of papers pretty well
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b124/pauliep/0205072237.jpg

[konichd]

I put one on my ZX-10R and it really smoothed out the throttle response, that was the biggest difference I noticed. For different makes I'm sure there are different things, ie gas mileage, throttle response, power.

Its well worth the money, but don't get ass-raped into buying a $300 custom map. :)

[Dr. Joe Siphek]

I'm w/ DK...I put one on my 636 and it smoothed out the powerband noticably, but don't what else it did.

[No-coast-punk]

I picked up 15 horsepower to the rear wheel on my R6 after spending a day on my dyno with the PC3. Think of the dollar amount in other parts you would have to bolt on to gain that kind of power. The ignition harness is needed for these types of gains on other bikes though. I also picked up a few mpg.

You will definately notice a huge difference in throttle response/smoothness with an off the shelf map... but they're not very good. The ass dyno for most people say a PC3 without a custom map provides about the same power increase as a full exhaust system.

[konichd]

Go on e-bay and find Fuel Moto, 300 bucks for the PCIII and a custom map, shipped to your door. :) I've bought 3 PCIII's for bikes I've had and was very pleased with them.

[pauliep]

what are the recommendations for getting mapped in the local area?

[konichd]

If I was going to go somewhere to get it done, I'd head down and talk to Bart @ TK motorsports. :) My bike will be down there soon to get my quickshifter installed and a few other goodies before its track time! :lol:

[BlueDevil]

How is it a "custom map" if it wasnt done custom for your bike? IT may have been done "custom" on someones bike but not sure how that helps on your bike.... Sorry but that makes no sense...each bike is different. 1 bike with the same mods and map may make 100hp and another 106..... A map is not worth any thing if it was not done specific for your bike and mods ON YOUR bike. If you spend 1K on a system, and an additional 3-500 on other parts, then dont map for it.. U wasted your dough IMO...... Dont U want all $1500 bucks worh out of your mods? Y pay $1500 and get $900 worth of value and power?

PCIII is absolutely a great mod and should be on any FI bike (Unless U go full race wire harness) but thats a different topic.

[JOE!!!!!!]

Most modern (fuel injected) sportbikes will see some improvement with a Power Commander that has been properly mapped. Using someone else's map even if it came off the same model is a crapshoot - this could possibly make your bike run worse. Or, you could get lucky. I wouldn't waste my time trying to tune (with) a PC using the "seat of the pants" dyno. Talk to Bart at TK. Don't expect to see huge changes in your Daytona, unless you've done some other engine/exhaust mods (then you really need a PC). But it'll be smoother, have a few more hp, and you'll have a real true "custom map" that only works on your bike. At this altitude.

BTW, if you change something like your exhaust system at a later date, you have to map all over again. Even a different brand air filter.

[pauliep]

I just got back from TK's
Ran 143hp to begin with. With my new maps I'm at 152hp
Only mod is the hotbodies exhaust.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b124/pauliep/0206071544.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b124/pauliep/0206071525.jpg

[*GSXR~SNAIL*]

Nice pauliep...maybe after I swap out my "boat anchor" of a stock can, I'll try the PCIII.

[pauliep]

Thank you,
after all the things I found jacked up on my exhaust, I am going to forever down talk hotbodies. I should have taken pics of all that crap. Would have proven more productive then some tourist shots of a dyno run, hehe

[reddeth]

pauliep, sorry to get off topic, but the way your lisence plate is mounted, do you ever catch crap from the cops?

I'm getting ready to put my bike back together and working out mounting for my plate with a undertail is proving to be tricky. I'd like to mount it where you've got it but I imagine I would catch shit for it.

Sorry to get off topic
Thanks for the help

[pauliep]

Answer to your question: Never been pulled over or haggled about it.

I'm very grateful to not have been pulled over for it. My tire fender came lose last week and when that was on it was much harder to see. It's easier to see then in the picture too because the suspension is being compressed too. The kit was supposed to come with a alright license plate bracket but I got the bike with the exhaust already on without the bracket.

Hey, you think you can fix my modded xbox to get on xbox live? I miss playing halo2 online. having a hard time ftping into, can't remember the username and password (doh!) I have the xcuter 2.3 I think...

[reddeth]

Thanks for the input and sorry again about changing the subject.

Yeah, I can also fix your Xbox (unless you were banned previously, its still possible but hard [read: more expensive]). But again, getting off topic, PM'd

[rider955i]

Thanks for all of the feedback. Actually ended out finding one on craigslist and checked it out and it is the correct model and it works. The guy crashed his bike and I ended up getting it for a steal 150 with a k&n

[pauliep]

sounds great. My recommandations if you're wanting a custom map are TK's. Bart is good people

[No-coast-punk]

I hate to whore myself out. I'm here to meet people/make friends... but you might want to give my shop a try for a tune. We're pretty new and nobody in the local sportbike community has really heard of us yet... but we're working on that.

Our dyno is lightyears ahead of what the TK dynojet can do.

A dynojet dyno basically has a 24" weighted roller. The computer knows the weight of the roller and sees how long it takes to get the roller from one speed to another. It does some math and extrapolates a power number based on that. They aren't too terribly accurate for the fact that all they take is this speed measurement... and the dyno only has two sensor pickup teeth on the whole 24" roller. That's why when you look at dyno jet graphs they are very squigly because the sampling rate isn't very fast.

For tuning purposes they kind of suck too since the weight of that roller doesn't very accurately simulate the load an engine will see in the real world. You can only tune full throttle too.

Our dyno is different. First off ours only has a 12" roller... with 96 sensor pickup teeth. That alone makes it several orders of magnitude more precise. A good example is my apprentices 50cc pocket bike we were messing with one day. The dyno was able to read changes of .05 horsepower from messing with the carb. So a change to engine mapping that a dynojet may not even register will be detected with our dyno.

Another way our dyno differs from dynojets is our braking system. We can basically simulate any load under the sun and also hold an engine at a given RPM. This brake system allows us to more accurately simulate the load a bike places on the engine in the real world. Since the ECU bases all it's fuel delivery on actual engine load.... properly loading the engine during tuning is critical.

The biggest advantage however lies in our ability to do part throttle and throttle tip in. We can basically tell the dyno "hold the bike at exactly 4,000 RPM" and then go all the way from closed throttle to full throttle and in real time see exactly where the air/fuel and power is at along the way without the rev's ever changing. We perfectly tune every throttle cell at 4,000 then turn it up to 4,500. Tune every throttle cell at 4,500 move up to 5,000 etc. This allows us to accurately change every single cell within the fuel map all the way from closed throttle/idle to full throttle/redline.

Our 02 sensor also responds about 10x faster than a dynojet's. When you are dealing with a situation where .1 air fuel ratio can make the same power difference as say an air filter and you are dealing with near sonic exhaust velocities... fast response is critical.

I dunno... our dyno costs about four to five times as much as a dynojet motorcycle dyno which is why so few shops have them. But then again... we had an all wheel drive turbo porsche on ours today... so being more flexible takes some of the hurt out of those monthly payments. None of our customer cars/bikes that have been tuned previously on a dyno jet and then our dyno have ever gone back to a dyno jet. They simply don't have the accuracy to make all the power you can. That GSX-R 1k picked up 9whp. I picked up 15 with my bike and my dyno.... and my bike is a 600. The dynojet's also can't do part throttle accurately or transient (roll on) throttle... period. And seriously, how often are you at 100% throttle? How about playing in the 30% -> 60% range?

http://www.revolutionsperformance.com/

Once again... sorry to whore my business out. You won't see me do it much here. I just REALLY hate dynojets. I've seen completed tunes roll off dynojet's that are outright dangerous simply because that equipment was never designed to be tuned with. It's not the fault of the tuner... the equipment simply can't simulate the real world.

[pauliep]

I didn't see a rate for tuning Power Commanders, So I'm guessing that would fall into the hourly rate. What kind of quote would someone be looking at if they were to get there's mapped with you?

[hcr25]

What make is your Dyno?
thanks mike

[~Barn~]

According to their website, it's a "Dyno Dynamics"

http://www.revolutionsperformance.com/?page_id=32

[~Barn~]

Speaking of their website, somebody needs to go revist that! It has a bunch of gibberish characters thrown around the entire site, and doesn't look good. Just an FYI.

[pauliep]

What make is your Dyno?
thanks mike

from what I found it looks like

Dyno Dynamics AWD Load Bearing Dyno
http://www.revolutionsperformance.com/?page_id=32

edit: ugh, you beat me to it

[No-coast-punk]

Yeah, our website REALLY sucks right now. That site was literally put together in an hour. Bloody embarassing considering the computer background we all have. It's definately on our radar, but there are like a million other things that we also need to take care of. Starting a new business sucks!

We charge $300 to tune power commanders. If you want any additional maps (say for nitrous or race gas) it's an additional $100 for every map. More complex standalones like Motecs we charge around $450 and up (many more variables and it takes much longer to deal with things like cranking enrichment, coil dwell. etc.).

Most guys are running the fuel only unit... but the best gains will be found from the ignition modules on top of the fuel units. Especially on bikes that have raised the compression or changed cams etc.

[hcr25]

I picked up 15 horsepower to the rear wheel on my R6 after spending a day on my dyno with the PC3. Think of the dollar amount in other parts you would have to bolt on to gain that kind of power. The ignition harness is needed for these types of gains on other bikes though. I also picked up a few mpg.

You will definately notice a huge difference in throttle response/smoothness with an off the shelf map... but they're not very good. The ass dyno for most people say a PC3 without a custom map provides about the same power increase as a full exhaust system.

Did you pick up 15hp by adding the PC3 alone to a stock bike or is this with a exhaust system/air filter?
thanks mike

[No-coast-punk]

The 15whp was from the tune alone.

The bike already had a full graves exhaust system and K&N filter on it. I was going to start with the graves map for those mod's and go from there... but the graves tune was so whacked out I just threw it away and started from scratch. I actually lost power in a few spots with the graves tune.

I meant to bring in a few floppy discs from home to upload the dyno charts... but I forgot. I'll try and remember tomorrow.

[rider955i]

what kind of price does tk have? Is it about the same?

[pauliep]

what kind of price does tk have? Is it about the same?

Tk was $260
They will say it takes two hours but that might have been how long I was there total overall; to include unfucking my exhaust (I hate you hotbodies), trouble shooting a stator problem and fixing it. All that along with the dyno runs to get your map.

[brian38]

WOW!!!!

Normally I wouldn't even get into this conversation unless asked but since there are gross innacuracies in your statements I can't help it. By spouting off information that is blatantly wrong you are doing yourself and eveyone a disservice and making it obvious you are "whoring yourself out"

Following are a few examples:


For tuning purposes they kind of suck too since the weight of that roller doesn't very accurately simulate the load an engine will see in the real world. You can only tune full throttle too.

We have an Eddy Current Load Control Dyno that allows for tuning at any throttle and Rpm we pick. Many Dynojet dynos have this feature.



Another way our dyno differs from dynojets is our braking system. We can basically simulate any load under the sun and also hold an engine at a given RPM. This brake system allows us to more accurately simulate the load a bike places on the engine in the real world. Since the ECU bases all it's fuel delivery on actual engine load.... properly loading the engine during tuning is critical.

See above...Dynojet dyno (ours) has an edddy current brake that allows us to do exactly that.:banghead:




The biggest advantage however lies in our ability to do part throttle and throttle tip in. We can basically tell the dyno "hold the bike at exactly 4,000 RPM" and then go all the way from closed throttle to full throttle and in real time see exactly where the air/fuel and power is at along the way without the rev's ever changing. We perfectly tune every throttle cell at 4,000 then turn it up to 4,500. Tune every throttle cell at 4,500 move up to 5,000 etc. This allows us to accurately change every single cell within the fuel map all the way from closed throttle/idle to full throttle/redline.

Again, see above...Dynojet dyno (ours) has an edddy current brake that allows us to do exactly that.:banghead: :banghead:



Our 02 sensor also responds about 10x faster than a dynojet's. When you are dealing with a situation where .1 air fuel ratio can make the same power difference as say an air filter and you are dealing with near sonic exhaust velocities... fast response is critical.

Got to admit, I have no Idea what o2 sensor you are using but ours is a wideband sensor which gives a wide range and fast response. Let me know what kind you use if it's better I have no problem using it.



I dunno... our dyno costs about four to five times as much as a dynojet motorcycle dyno which is why so few shops have them. But then again... we had an all wheel drive turbo porsche on ours today... so being more flexible takes some of the hurt out of those monthly payments. None of our customer cars/bikes that have been tuned previously on a dyno jet and then our dyno have ever gone back to a dyno jet. They simply don't have the accuracy to make all the power you can. That GSX-R 1k picked up 9whp. I picked up 15 with my bike and my dyno.... and my bike is a 600.

Maybe it costs so much due to the fact it is designed to run, oh I don't know.....
Cars!
Besides not every bike will pick up huge gains if the fueling is not far off to begin with. We have picked up huge gains on bikes as well. We just don't promise it without a basis to start from.



The dynojet's also can't do part throttle accurately or transient (roll on) throttle... period. And seriously, how often are you at 100% throttle? How about playing in the 30% -> 60% range?

We can and have tuned at partial throttle and for roll ons.




Once again... sorry to whore my business out. You won't see me do it much here. I just REALLY hate dynojets. I've seen completed tunes roll off dynojet's that are outright dangerous simply because that equipment was never designed to be tuned with. It's not the fault of the tuner... the equipment simply can't simulate the real world.

I have no problem if you hate the Dynojet dyno's as I have no opinion on yours one way or the other. But please let people know this is your opinion as most of it has no factual basis. Also the person operating a dyno has a great amount of control over the quality of a map regardless of which dyno or tuning system used. I don't want to start some pissing match it's just I don't understand your need to slam us or the dyno when I don't know if we have ever even met.

Feel free to flame me or even call to discuss.:)

Sorry about the thread hi-jack :oops:

Brian
TK Motorsports

[~Barn~]

I don't think it's a hijack if you're just responding to info that you find suspect. Thanks for the clarification. You're a temp over there though, right?

[No-coast-punk]

I had no idea dynojet made a product with eddy current capabilities. You would be the first in the Denver area with a dynojet (that I have heard about) that has an eddy current setup. Most don't. I have played with just about every type of dyno under the sun (dynojet, dyno dyanmics, mustang, maha, dynapak, etc.) and never seen an eddy current dynojet. Most dynojets are either the 124/224/248 variety. What model are you guys running?

You guys are probably using the Bosch LM1 sensor. Ours is the NTK L2H2. Both sensors are just as accurate... the NTK one just has much more favorable transient response.

You are correct though, most of what I said can be ignored about the eddy current/braking capabilities as I had no idea you guys could do that. Did dynojet put a greater tooth count on the rollers on your model as well? Usually it's required to monitor/maintain speed on the rollers.

[Clarkie]

Dyno arguments are the best!:up:

'My Dyno is better than your Dyno"

"yeah but mine gain 300hp on a GSX-R1000"

"yeah but my dyno has load control"

"well mine is red and red dyno's are faster"

"yeah well mine is on wheels and can do quads and bikes and dwarf cars and I can get it sideways in a parking lot when there is snow on the ground"............ hey hang on that's my dyno :)


dude before you try and 'educate' people about how much better your dyno is than another dyno you should do some research about the dyno technology that is actually out there, Dynojet has had full load control for a few years now. They also have the ability to show 'actual' horsepower in real time :shocked:

hang on, the shitty DJ150 cant do that can it? Oh that's right those dyno's are over 10 years old and just like motorcycles dyno technology moves forward.

FYI there are at least 7 full load control Dynojet dyno's in Colorado.