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rforsythe
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 04:54 PM
First, this is a serious thread, so please keep the BS posts out (hence why it's in here and not General).

Now, Scott (Rybo) and myself will be doing a ~6 minute presentation to ABATE, CDOT, and NHSTA next week as representatives of CSC, intended to help the government-types improve existing, or even begin new ways of increasing motorcycle safety in Colorado. Of course we'll put some focus on sportbike-specific tendencies, but a lot of this stuff is not unique to any one kind of bike.

I have a lot of things already in my head that I think will really be good to say and I'm sure Scott does too, and of course we'll be sitting down in the next couple days to formalize it a bit. But I wanted to ask you, the CSC riding community, to brainstorm a bit as well and offer your suggestions and "topic starters". Perhaps if there's something we haven't thought of it will make it in the presentation! After all, we are representing the CSC, so I feel we should represent its members' views as well.

So, if there was a way (or more than once) you could see to improve safety while riding a motorcycle, please post up! It can be rider education, non-rider (cager) education - which is big in my mind, legislative changes (no we will not suggest a helmet law, but do promote helmet use), etc etc. Please give us your input! This is a very real way you can help make a difference to our sport.

TFOGGuys
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 05:00 PM
My $.02, in no particular order:

Tiered licensing, tax/licensing advantages for learner friendly(read as 400cc or smaller) bikes, safety education for both bikers and cagers, dealer guidelines to help avoid the sale of inappropriate bikes (GSXR1K to newb 18 year olds).

Brizz
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 05:03 PM
I think there should be more cager education..I know i have only taken 1 class to get a license..I have taken several bike courses..So maybe that should be something implimented..It would 1) make better drivers out of all of us and 2) bring awareness to all..Both 2 wheels and 4 Wheels to 18 wheels.

Maybe we should have a forum for motorcycle awareness/safety..Then we could add things randomly, as they come to mind.

rforsythe
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 05:07 PM
Maybe we should have a forum for motorcycle awareness/safety..Then we could add things randomly, as they come to mind.

Perhaps, but we're doing this in a week. :D The thread will work for now, if this catches on or looks like a long term project we as a club can get behind I will be 100% for that though.

Brizz
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 05:10 PM
Perhaps, but we're doing this in a week. :D The thread will work for now, if this catches on or looks like a long term project we as a club can get behind I will be 100% for that though.
Maybe it should have been something we should have had from the begining..As this is a BIKE Club...But thank you for your consideration.

pauliep
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 05:10 PM
Rider Education.

It's very agreed that this is one of the top subjects for rider safety, Education and training.

Federal/State Goverment financial support for motorcycle education. Ideally I know they want you to attend a course annually. Well the prices for courses are not cheap. I think that if there were Federal/Sate funding towards rider safety to reduce the prices of education or even continued education, that might influence riders and future riders to pursue these resources with more aggression.

Another way for that is if someone has already attended a MSF course last year, they ought to be able to provide their card and recieve a discount on course for their next season's course.

Brizz
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 05:12 PM
Rider Education.

It's very agreed that this is one of the top subjects for rider safety, Education and training.

Federal/State Goverment financial support for motorcycle education. Ideally I know they want you to attend a course annually. Well the prices for courses are not cheap. I think that if there were Federal/Sate funding towards rider safety to reduce the prices of education or even continued education, that might influence riders and future riders to pursue these resources with more aggression.

Another way for that is if someone has already attended a MSF course last year, they ought to be able to provide their card and recieve a discount on course for their next season's course.

True again..It cost me roughly $23 to get a drivers licence and $150+ every year to do a bike course..(Unless your military, and then its free) But its mandatory.

Sortarican
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 05:15 PM
Leah and Dana both brought up the point of making the road paint abrasive instead of the slick type they use now.
Especially in crosswalks.
Could sell the fact that little old ladies probably bite the dust walking across them too.

+1 tiered licensing.

rider955i
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 05:27 PM
put a requuirement on regular cagers so that once they hit 50 they have to retake the drivers test completely and then every ten years after that. As far as something on the motorcyclists part maybe do something like if you want to ride a lter bike or possibly even a bigger cruiser/ chopper require that the rider logs ________miles/ hours before they are allowed to operate it. I would hope that someone doesn't jump from a 50 cc moped to a litre bike, but would think that dirt bike experience would be ok bc peoplle are usually pushing the bike hard enough to know what to do with more power. once you reach a point it is about having the ability to hold back until you get the hang of it to push the limits more even though it is often during this learning that people do make mistakes.

Brizz
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 05:38 PM
Well First off..
1) That is one hell of a run on sentence for an educational thread..
2) how can you log miles if you arent premitted to ride said motorcycle?
3) Just cuz you have a liter+ bike dont mean you have to roll the throttle all the way back...

Maybe im missing your points..(due to the extreme run on sentence..) But i think i know where your going with it..

As for Sortarician...I agree with the 3 of you..The reflective strips should be sand based..With a high grain..Im sure several uf us can vouch for the many times we have slid on em.

Mel
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 05:49 PM
Ralph, I think that you and Scott probably have a great handle on things. I am gonna state a few opinions, which may or may not help your cause.
I think that dealerships need to be a little more responsible in how they sell bikes (i.e. to un-trained riders), but I don't necessarily agree that you have to have training to operate a liter bike...frankly, having ridden both for years, if you are stupid, you are going to wreck just as easily on a 600 as you will on a liter bike. With modern technology and less weight, etc. etc. you can do almost 80 in first gear, and can be well past 45-50 just through an intersection from a dead stop on a 600 cc bike. I am far from perfect on my bikes, but frankly, just being smarter in how you ride will prevent an accident...not to sound callous, but it isn't always the cagers fault. I have seen people I know killed in accidents blamed on cagers (i.e. car pulled out in front of someone) but when you are pushing 110-120 on the streets and a car pulls out in front, you can not just blame the car. I don't think that forcing people to start out on smaller bikes (i.e. less than 400 cc) is the answer either...I would never tell a new rider to start out on something larger than a 600 bike, but there seems to be a big push (dealerships, society) telling people that bigger is better, and that you can "start" on a 600 and "move up" to something larger when the truth is that you will probably never outride what a 600 has to offer, nor should you ever attempt it on the streets.
I also don't necessarily agree that cagers need to be trained specifically around what I choose to do...I do think that most people can't drive for shit, but if I choose to ride a motorcycle, I don't expect that drivers need to be the ones to work around my choosen hobby. I think better education for new(er) riders, possibly having riders re-take courses every couple of years, etc. would be helpful (just as I think you should have to retake your driving course every few years). Graduated licensing would also be helpful for bikes...I think that the power a bike has in the hands of an 18 year old is dangerous, there is too much temptation to use the power, and you are still invincible at that age.
Additionally, media plays a big part in what riders do with their time....how often do you see stuff on TV (say, two wheel turner or any of those shows) advocating safety? The dealerships themselves typically even have stunt riding videos playing in the showrooms...

Possibly trying to mentor newer riders would be helpful...the kid I sold my GSXR600 to had never ridden...he came with a friend who owns a bike, but knows equally little about them. I gave the kid a good helmet to wear, and made sure to give my number and told him that once he has taken the MSF course to call me and I would take both he and his friend out for some one on one, real life riding advice and training. I don't think that I can baby and save every rider out there, but if I can bring new, responsible riders to the sport, I will take whatever time I have to do so.


Edit: I just realized the above makes no sense....if you can read between the lines, I think you will get what I was trying to say

TFOGGuys
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 06:08 PM
+1 On the Mentoring... I took my stepkid out to Second Creek and he learned more about how to make a bike go around corners in an afternoon following my slow ass than he had learned in the previous year on the street. He and two of his friends all bought identical bikes (VTR1000s) as their first bikes, his is the only one that hasn't hit the ground.

pilot
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 07:08 PM
Not trying to take away from any of the schools here. But it would be nice if CDOT, etc., could provide a basic training CD as part of the package they provide.

DevilsTonic
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 07:17 PM
I agree with more education required for people getting / renewing driver's licenses.

Additionally, because of my experience, the paint and / or tape they use to paint lines on the roads and cross walks should be something stickier...such as the paint used on the edge of some tracks.

Another thing that would help immensely is to have road crews pay more attention to the road conditions...when summer hits, they should be clearing the roads of sand and miscellaneous debris (this would benefit riders and drivers alike, no one likes getting sand tossed up at windshields causing cracks)..IMO.

rybo
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 08:17 PM
Thank you everyone for your input so far. Many of the things here have been on my mind, but the tape/paint thing had slipped it for some reason, and I've actually crashed on the stuff!

I'm glad the organizers contacted us and are allowing us an opportunity to present at their conference. The notice is incredibly short and I'd love a month to prepare, but we don't have it.

Please keep the ideas coming.

Once the event is done we'll post up a synopsis of the day.

Scott

asp_125
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 09:19 PM
CDOT should pay more attention to pothole repair. Some that are non-issue for 4 wheels could really spell trouble for motorcycles.

Bassil Duwaik
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 10:26 PM
A big BIG BIGGGG thing to improve motorcycle safty is to have freaking CDot get off their asses and get that damn gravel off of the roads. Yeah that gravel is messing with my confidence.

oh yeah and another thingy try to push for them to get rid of the snakes in the road. Make them repave it sooner better then later. And if I'm not pushing my luck have them increase the speed at which we can ride. I know it's not practical to change all the speed limit signs around town to adjust to bikes (even though they've already done it for trucks and cars i.g. 65 trucks 75 cars). But a sorta implied speed limit of 10% would suffice for me. Remember go in there and start off high like 30% increase and then negotiate it down to ten if need be. I got faith in you buddy

rybo
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 10:31 PM
(no we will not suggest a helmet law, but do promote helmet use), etc etc. Please give us your input! This is a very real way you can help make a difference to our sport.


Ralph and I are on the same page with this one. Helmet use in my world is mandatory, I never ride without one. I don't believe that adding that bit of legislation actually makes riding safer, it just reduces the consequences AFTER the accident has occurred. I would MUCH rather see us working to avoid the accident to begin with, that is making motorcycling safer.

pilot
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 10:55 PM
Sounds like this meeting is in conjunction with the program that was mentioned in a previous post: http://www.dot.state.co.us/TravelInfo/motorcyclesafety.pdf

Most likely several of these agencies have prepared their presentation around it. Perhaps, if you were to build upon their efforts they would be more receptive to some other issues you may present (like sanding the paint at crosswalks). Also, it wouldn't hurt, no pun intended, to review the

Hurt study summary: http://www.ct.gov/dot/LIB/dot/Documents/dhighwaysafety/CTDOT_Hurt.pdf and

the New Zealand safety study: http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/328/7444/857

and the Euro report: Motorcyle Accident In Depth Study: http://maids.acembike.org/

Here is a short article about the Euro study: http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/newsandupdates/european_motorcycle_crash_study/

this is but a short list of motorcycle safety studies.

A note about the presentation itself: An OK presentation given by a great speaker is memorable. A great presentation given by an OK speaker is forgotten.

Please take a moment to consider who is going to give the presentation--I'm not trying to hack on anyones skills as I have never listened to you speak to a group. Obviously you all are great racers, and web hosts with your hearts in the right places.

BUT...If any of you, in any way have issues with eye contact, voice carry, handling a pointer/visual aids, then you should practice it over and over. Or, get someone who can "pull it off" --a person that you can train on the relevent topics you wish to present. Finding that "right" person is easy--the CSC is big, hold tryouts if needed (Even presidents of large corporations have speakers on their staff). Tryouts would even gets a few members involved.

Hence, a well-briefed presenter and a few associates--standing at the ready-- to handle specific questions demonstrate how prepared and important the topic at hand is to the presenters and the audience.

Consider mentioning another bike club and their efforts too. This goes miles when it comes to support of your points. Nothing like a bunch of nodding heads when you are speaking. Praise and appluase, paise and appluase.

Speaking of audience, if this is open to the public (that would be nice) then it would be great if some CSC members were to show up. Especially the ladies in the group. Motorcycling women are the fastest growing segment of the riding populace. Come on and all, but come well-dressed-business style (no t-shirts please), and perhaps even with some name badges-- think about getting those, at least for anyone who will be presenting, if not the whole group. Those cheesy paper name tags fall off. A good "CSC" name badge will cost you $10 bucks and goes a long way.

Next, you may want to consider mentioning to everyone there, before, during and after your presentation, that you are going to hold some sort of round-table discussion on safety in the near future and that you would like to have them attend. This will show them you are in this for the long-haul and it will bring them to your show. Tell them you providing food, a lunch, or something. I heard once that somebody here makes some killer green chilli.

Don't be specific on dates, times and locations. You'll have time to do that down the road. All you might want them to do is agree to send some reps. They will, as to say no would not look good on them.

What you are doing is very important. If it saves one life and the pain and suffering that would be avoided, then it will all be worth it.

Good luck.

Titus
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 11:23 PM
excellent posts!

i was also thinking about the legislative side of things; stiffer penalties for accidents involving motorcycles as well as careless driving around motorcycles, eg. following too closely, unsafe lane changes, etc. etc.

daemon
Tue Apr 17th, 2007, 11:44 PM
+1 to this and all the other seeminly good intention post's.

even mel's made good sense to me.
i too have taken the time to help train riders.
would be cool if we as a group could mentor some of these newer riders.
kinda like a big brother's,big sister's kinda thing


I agree with more education required for people getting / renewing driver's licenses.

Additionally, because of my experience, the paint and / or tape they use to paint lines on the roads and cross walks should be something stickier...such as the paint used on the edge of some tracks.

Another thing that would help immensely is to have road crews pay more attention to the road conditions...when summer hits, they should be clearing the roads of sand and miscellaneous debris (this would benefit riders and drivers alike, no one likes getting sand tossed up at windshields causing cracks)..IMO.

Bat
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 01:58 AM
More $$ put into safety ad campaigns...

similar to ad campaigns in other countries to increase driver's awareness so more people will actually start looking for us. Was it Britain that did the "stop, look and look again" TV ad with the car pulling out in front of the bike and the horrendous results? How many times have we all heard the "I didn't even see them" excuse from cagers hitting/pulling out into/turning in front of/cutting off/etc. motorcyclists?

Both MADD and state law enforcement do TV saturation (no pun intended) ad campaigns against drunk driving to increase awareness of penalties and to show the victims as "real" people - putting names to faces. And they tie these ads to certain times of the year when people are more likely to be drinking and driving, such as holidays. Would be nice to see more ad campaigns to increase awareness of US. Start saturating in the spring and periodically through the warmer months. Even if it only increased awareness by 10% - that's 10% better odds for us. I am just sickened that riders seem to get the "well they are doing something dangerous so it doesn't count as much if they get injured/killed" crap. We are someone's child/parent/sibling/spouse etc. - get the masses to wake up and start looking for us, dammit.

dirkterrell
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 08:22 AM
S
BUT...If any of you, in any way have issues with eye contact, voice carry, handling a pointer/visual aids, then you should practice it over and over. Or, get someone who can "pull it off" --a person that you can train on the relevent topics you wish to present. Finding that "right" person is easy--the CSC is big, hold tryouts if needed (Even presidents of large corporations have speakers on their staff). Tryouts would even gets a few members involved.


Pilot is right on the mark. If you aren't used to doing this kind of thing, you'll be amazed at how fast 6 minutes will go by and you'll be going through half of your information in the last minute. I do this kind of thing all the time presenting research results at meetings. I would be very happy to get together with you guys and work on the mechanics of the presentation if you think it will help.

Dirk

rybo
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 08:35 AM
Hey guys,

Thanks for the tips on presentation. I know Ralph has been spending a lot of time making presentations for R2SL lately and I've spent the majority of my career as a presenter/ trainer/ teacher, so I'm pretty comfortable with the delivery part. This is also on a short timeline, so while I'd love to get a crew together for brainstorming and practice, it's just not going to happen this time.

I do want to make sure that we have a well constructed presentation filled with relevent content.

Thanks again for all the posts....keep 'em coming!

Scott

Chris
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 08:58 AM
My MSF class said somthing like 50% of fatal MC accidents involve alcohol.

Well I bet you could guess who is doing that and I don't think it is the sportbike or tour folks.

Devaclis
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 09:03 AM
Factory or dealer sponsored "Saftey Rides" would be great. Kind of like a newb meet for people who recently purhcased a motorcycle. It will help the rider community and also reinforce the customer/dealer relationship.

I think more free instructional videos should be made available as well. I should be able to hit youtube or other such sites and pull down video on how to safely corner, throttle control, propper scanning techniques, etc..

pauliep
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 09:13 AM
Factory or dealer sponsored "Saftey Rides" would be great. Kind of like a newb meet for people who recently purhcased a motorcycle. It will help the rider community and also reinforce the customer/dealer relationship.

I think more free instructional videos should be made available as well. I should be able to hit youtube or other such sites and pull down video on how to safely corner, throttle control, propper scanning techniques, etc..


+1

I like this one. It would allow the newbs to pair up pick at the brains of the seasoned riders. They can share their experiences and give mentorship. If something like this could be required, I imagine a lot to be gained. Like an open-end post purchase ride. I don't see why a dealership wouldn't? They put out company bikes and they rollering around advertising during the ride. Recommending safety gear, talking about road conditions, and getting newbs on the bandwagon about responisble goup rides. They can even have a PO show up and give he's little shpell about what freaks drivers out and that being dangerous to yourself puts everyone on the road dangerous.

mtnairlover
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 09:48 AM
I really like these posts. Advertising makes sense, big sense.

As I was out with a small group on Sunday and stopped in Lyons, I was absolutely amazed at the number of bikes out there, seriously...has the number of bikes on the road increased, or something? I have a feeling that most definitely, if a poll were taken at dealerships, the number of people purchasing bikes in say the last 5 years has increased significantly and that the number of female riders has also increased dramatically.

One of the things I thought of before posting was signage. Warning-type signs on the canyon roads every few miles or so. No words on the sign, just an MC. Kinda like the animal X-ing signs. Maybe place those signs on the more popular routes.

Another thing about our ride on Sunday was the number of cagers moving out of our way...some not doing it cuz we were tailgating, but just cuz they were paying attention. The signs would be a good reminder to everyone on the roads, especially during the warm months.

rybo
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 09:55 AM
Cathy,

I have friends who own a Honda shop in Wisconsin and there has been a MAJOR spike in motorcycle purchases in the past 3 years. There are two groups of users that are growing exponentially.

1. Women- this is the fastest growing market segment by far and it's showing no sign of slowing down.

2. "Older" men, ususally in or around their 50's. These people grew up with little motorcycles, triumphs, hondas etc. and used them as cheap transportation. In some ways they are trying to re-live their youth, but the group as a whole has huge buying power and are buying motorcycles in record numbers.

I like the signs idea.....you see them for bicycles too. I also like the above mentioned idea of motocycle shops sponsoring group rides for new customers. Maybe there would be some way to get the state to incentivize such a campaign (or an MSF voucher with every new bike purchase kind of campaign).

Statistics show that one of the common threads in motorcycle accidents is a new (to the rider) motorcycle. This applies even with riders who are very experienced. Any time a new bike is purchased, maybe there could be a way to get a free MSF course out of the deal?

pilot
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 09:58 AM
It would be a good thing if someone from the CSC were to tape this event. At least your six minute presentation and then post it up on YouTube/etc.

Can you do this? Will it be allowed?

daemon
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 10:39 AM
although i doubt this will be considered a safety issue.
there seems to be a lack of call boxes on very well traveled roads.
compound that with the people who don't want to clutter their scenery with cell phone towers and we have a definite problem in case of emergencies.
if anything there could be a push to have at least a few more towers that we can make calls from.

dirkterrell
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 11:03 AM
Statistics show that one of the common threads in motorcycle accidents is a new (to the rider) motorcycle. This applies even with riders who are very experienced. Any time a new bike is purchased, maybe there could be a way to get a free MSF course out of the deal?


One of the most dangerous times in any risky activity is the period between newbie and experienced when your are losing the fear but before you have enough experience to really gauge where the limit is. I am a rescue/recovery cave diver and among people who have the proper training, the divers most likely to be in an accident are the ones who have moderate experience (~100 cave dives). My own motorcycling experience was similar and I wonder if that's true for riders in general? If so, then my advice would be to support more advanced training. Personally, I think the allure of riding on a track could be used to target sportbike riders. Classroom work and one-on-one track time with experienced riders would have a very positive impact by helping riders better understand their limits and those of the bike.

Dirk

LightningRider
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 11:53 AM
Pointing at the cagers isn't something I want my post to be known for. I spend a lot of miles in one myself. If more effort was spent on getting people to know the rules and try to use a little common sense it seems that would be worthwhile.

I know, common sense isn't common, but if some effort went into reminding people that the left lane is for passing, talking on the phone while driving increases the chances that you as a driver will get into an accident, and time spent behind the wheel is for driving, not shaving, or playing with your hair or putting on makeup....

Some changes on getting and keeping a license could be an improvement. Many good ideas have been mentioned earlier in this post, so I won't repeat, but am I the only one who thinks it's maybe a little unsafe to just hand out drivers licenses to folks from out of state who already have a license? I've lived in four states where I've had a license, but Colorado is the only one who just gave me one without taking any kind of test just because I had a valid license from another state. While I loved the convenience of it, I fully realized I wouldn't know about laws that I probably should know about.

I think you could apply the same ideas above to riders as well. Obviously they won't be able to allow themselves to get preoccupied with the same things cagers will, but knowing the rules, so that everyone is on the same page, riders and cagers, and employing some common sense would go a long way. As someone mentioned earlier, building a culture of responsibility so that younger riders have their peers pressuring each other to not ride like jackasses instead of the opposite.

rforsythe
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 12:03 PM
Well I bet you could guess who is doing that and I don't think it is the sportbike or tour folks.

Then reality may surprise you. I'll just leave it at that. Alcohol is a danger to bikers of ALL genres.

Thanks for the tips on presenting as well guys. I think Scott and I have it under control (fwiw, I got one of 6 A's my instructor had ever given in public speaking at college, but I'm still no expert so I appreciate the input)... I don't know if this is open to the public, or what will happen afterwards. We are one of several groups presenting as well. I have a call with the ABATE rep today though so I will know more after that...

rforsythe
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 12:08 PM
One of the most dangerous times in any risky activity is the period between newbie and experienced when your are losing the fear but before you have enough experience to really gauge where the limit is. I am a rescue/recovery cave diver and among people who have the proper training, the divers most likely to be in an accident are the ones who have moderate experience (~100 cave dives). My own motorcycling experience was similar and I wonder if that's true for riders in general? If so, then my advice would be to support more advanced training. Personally, I think the allure of riding on a track could be used to target sportbike riders. Classroom work and one-on-one track time with experienced riders would have a very positive impact by helping riders better understand their limits and those of the bike.

Dirk

We see the same thing in aviation as well with relatively new pilots. They sometimes "lose the fear" or let poor impulse control, external pressures, and a host of other things get the better of them, and wind up the subject of an NTSB report. New pilots scare easily, but after 100-200 hours of nothing going wrong there is a tendency to get cocky, so those ones need a little different message.

Perhaps a key target area (with a shift in marketing tactics) is the rider who isn't green but still has a lot to learn that only experience can provide? My guess is that's where the majority of accidents occur, just as with pilots. There are so many similarities between the two groups it's pretty astounding actually.

pauliep
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 12:12 PM
well I remember dean mentioning to me once that he heard that motorcycle racing comes next in line to flying a jet fighter when it comes to the demands of human response

rforsythe
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 12:16 PM
well I remember dean mentioning to me once that he heard that motorcycle racing comes next in line to flying a jet fighter when it comes to the demands of human response

True. And street riding is probably inline with flying a small aircraft (as I do both, I'd say they're pretty close in the level of focus needed). You get scant few moments to relax, though it's a very enjoyable experience either way.

The FAA actually tests pilots on "risk management" awareness and skills, what if that was a key part of getting the license endorsement, or something insurance companies would discount for if you could take a government-conducted test and give them your score?

McVaaahhh
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 12:24 PM
Don't know if it's been mentioned, but cell phones are just frightening to me, both on the bike and in the cage. Especially bikers on phones - that's just asking for trouble right there.

pauliep
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 12:25 PM
True. And street riding is probably inline with flying a small aircraft (as I do both, I'd say they're pretty close in the level of focus needed). You get scant few moments to relax, though it's a very enjoyable experience either way.

The FAA actually tests pilots on "risk management" awareness and skills, what if that was a key part of getting the license endorsement, or something insurance companies would discount for if you could take a government-conducted test and give them your score?


Everyone likes a discount. That's some worth mentioning as it does sound like it carries weight.

pilot
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 01:32 PM
One of the most dangerous times in any risky activity is the period between newbie and experienced when your are losing the fear but before you have enough experience to really gauge where the limit is. I am a rescue/recovery cave diver and among people who have the proper training, the divers most likely to be in an accident are the ones who have moderate experience (~100 cave dives). My own motorcycling experience was similar and I wonder if that's true for riders in general? If so, then my advice would be to support more advanced training. Personally, I think the allure of riding on a track could be used to target sportbike riders. Classroom work and one-on-one track time with experienced riders would have a very positive impact by helping riders better understand their limits and those of the bike.

Dirk
Dive Master here. Done a few dives along the Divide at 10k+ in elevation.

pilot
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 01:37 PM
We see the same thing in aviation as well with relatively new pilots. They sometimes "lose the fear" or let poor impulse control, external pressures, and a host of other things get the better of them, and wind up the subject of an NTSB report. New pilots scare easily, but after 100-200 hours of nothing going wrong there is a tendency to get cocky, so those ones need a little different message.

Perhaps a key target area (with a shift in marketing tactics) is the rider who isn't green but still has a lot to learn that only experience can provide? My guess is that's where the majority of accidents occur, just as with pilots. There are so many similarities between the two groups it's pretty astounding actually.Back in 1975, when I first started flying, I had the battery catch fire uner the rear seat. Let me tell you, that was a challenge... smoke filled cabin, fire extinguisher action. Ended up busting the nose gear on the Piper that day when wind shear slammed the aircraft into the ground.

Perhaps someone could develop a class that would deal specifically with post-crash safety training.

dallas
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 01:51 PM
Statistics show that one of the common threads in motorcycle accidents is a new (to the rider) motorcycle. This applies even with riders who are very experienced. Any time a new bike is purchased, maybe there could be a way to get a free MSF course out of the deal?


Some of the larger dealerships in Arizona would give you a certificate for a free track day if you purchased a new bike from them. I don't think they did it on used bikes, but the idea was to take out your new bike and see how you and the new bike interacted together.

Bugkiller1
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 01:55 PM
I know dealorships have a hard time not selling a litre class sportbike to a newbie but it would be nice to see more beginners riding smaller, used bikes to get into the sport. Also, at most dealorships, there are deals on bikes that have performance upgrades like aftermarket exhaust, air filter, power comander on brand new bikes... instead dealers should have jacket, helmet glove boot packages to offer at a deal as well to encourage safety instead of making a fast bike faster.

dallas
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 01:58 PM
Also, at most dealorships, there are deals on bikes that have performance upgrades like aftermarket exhaust, air filter, power comander on brand new bikes... instead dealers should have jacket, helmet glove boot packages to offer at a deal as well to encourage safety instead of making a fast bike faster.


+1

rforsythe
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 03:27 PM
Ok just talked to my ABATE contact - this is not open to public viewing, sorry! This is actually 3 days of presentations from a lot of interested parties (State Patrol and other LE, CDOT, DOR, DMV, ABATE, various groups like ours, etc). We will only be there for a short while, but I will be able to get notes and stuff from the entire conference and will post a synopsis afterwards.

Sounds like this will have far reaching effects as well judging by the people involved, and this isn't just talk - it will make a real difference in CO.

Devaclis
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 03:33 PM
That is VERY cool Ralph. Way to represent! :)

asp_125
Wed Apr 18th, 2007, 03:52 PM
My MSF class said somthing like 50% of fatal MC accidents involve alcohol.

Well I bet you could guess who is doing that and I don't think it is the sportbike or tour folks.

One look at the sheer number of bikes in front of the Little Bear in Evergreen and in Morrison this weekend would indicate the need for alcohol awareness

rybo
Thu Apr 19th, 2007, 08:03 AM
Hi all,

Just thought I'd post up a project update. Ralph, Donna and I met last night and hashed out some ideas (basically Ralph and I going off on wild tangents and Donna pulling us back towards reality). Anyways, we came up with a solid outline that incorporates most of the ideas expressed in this thread. Thank you for your input and help. This is by no means done yet, so if you have input PLEASE post up with it. There is still time for good ideas and we want to represent the club in the best way possible.

Pilot, to answer your question, the event is not open to the public and no recording will be allowed. However, there is going to be a "court reporter" there taking notes that will be distributed to all participants and there will be a copy of all of the powerpoint presentations distributed. Ralph and I will post up a summary after the event for your reading pleasure.

Once again....any more input?

S

DevilsTonic
Thu Apr 19th, 2007, 08:30 AM
That's great news! Glad to hear that you've got some things hashed out. I can't wait to see the notes and hear your impressions from the conference! :up:

pilot
Thu Apr 19th, 2007, 08:39 AM
Hi all,

Just thought I'd post up a project update. Ralph, Donna and I met last night and hashed out some ideas (basically Ralph and I going off on wild tangents and Donna pulling us back towards reality). Anyways, we came up with a solid outline that incorporates most of the ideas expressed in this thread. Thank you for your input and help. This is by no means done yet, so if you have input PLEASE post up with it. There is still time for good ideas and we want to represent the club in the best way possible.

Pilot, to answer your question, the event is not open to the public and no recording will be allowed. However, there is going to be a "court reporter" there taking notes that will be distributed to all participants and there will be a copy of all of the powerpoint presentations distributed. Ralph and I will post up a summary after the event for your reading pleasure.

Once again....any more input?

SScott,
Thanks for the update. Good luck with the presentation.

Spiderman
Thu Apr 19th, 2007, 11:37 AM
I've been so busy with my new job that I haven't been online much lately, so hopefully "better late than never" can apply here too.

First of all, I wanted to thank Ralph for being able to take this and run with it, and Scott for being able to assist! :up:

Many good ideas have already been expressed in this thread. Here are a few of my thoughts:

Rider Training -- Ride like you're INVISIBLE, not like you're INVINCIBLE.
More Rider Training -- IMHO, most, if not all accidents involving a motorcycle could have been avoided by the motorcyclist... whether it be: respecting the speed limit (or flow of traffic); reducing speed to accomodate for conditions (road/weather/traction); paying closer attention to the vehicles around you; not doing stupid things like drinking and riding, or; resisting the urge to ride beyond your abilities (peer pressure). Basic skills of how to operate a motorcycle do not make for a safe rider - in addition to being able to operate the motorcycle, a street rider has to be cautious of everyone around them, and take road conditions, etc., into consideration.
Cager Training? -- I can't remember who came up with this idea (it was a few years ago), and though it's not feasible, it came to mind when thinking about this subject: Anybody wanting a drivers license in Colorado must first ride a motorcycle for x amount of time so they know what it's like for us every time we ride. :lol:
Laws Promoting Safety -- There was a helmet law where I learned to ride, so I'm not opposed to one, however, I think mandating new riders to wear a helmet for the first year might not be a bad idea.
Laws Promoting Safety -- +1 for tiered licensing. While it's true you can get hurt just as bad on a smaller/slower bike as you can a bigger/faster bike, you can get into a lot more trouble, a lot quicker on the bigger/faster bike.
Industry Help -- Dealerships should encourage new riders to purchase appropriate riding/safety gear at the same time that the bike is purchased, and to ease the burden this additional expense, dealerships should offer to include the cost of said gear into the financing of the bike.
Industry Help -- Someone else (once again, can't remember who - once again, t'was a few years ago) suggested that dealerships include a free helmet with the purchase of a new bike. Not a super nice helmet, necessarily, but a safe (SNELL & DOT approved) helmet, and give the customer the option (before they walk out the door) to upgrade it to a nicer helmet.That's all I got for now. Keep up the good work! 8)

firegixx600
Thu Apr 19th, 2007, 07:19 PM
Simple, everyone should buy a set of HID's and be have lights that are 300% brighter and be able to see rocks, deer, and other animals at night....i'm on my 3rd gixxer and have had HID's on them all and will never ride another motorcycle without them! They have saved me many times over!

daemon
Fri Apr 20th, 2007, 01:30 PM
dealers need some life lessons!!!!
http://www.kawasakimotorcycle.org/forum/kawasaki-streetbikes-sportbikes/44030-hope-i-did-good-thing-2.html

dapper
Fri Apr 20th, 2007, 04:56 PM
Our mind is capable of passing beyond the dividing line we have drawn on the roads to indicate passing. Motorcycles are more capable than most cars to pass with less real estate. As history has shown, creating more double yellow dividing lines increase less flexibility for passing. The passing areas become even more limited. As roads become repaved/resealed. The dividing lines have changed passing zones, typically toward double yellow if any changes at all. The lack of passing zones, or the lack of allowing driver judgment for safe passing actually increases aggressive driving or road rage toward rolling road blocks. As traffic builds up, tolerance slips along with self-control and patience. The majority of drivers will drive closer to the vehicles which decreases safety. Enforcement of double yellow crossings also wastes time, money and distracts proper attention from larger issues. Relying on the ethics of others, including their courtesy, has show depressant areas where citizens are not always proper.

The use of sand during winter weather storms have created beaches in intersections and between the trails of traveling vehicles. Waiting until spring is over to provide fair sand removal has contributed toward more accidents, unnecessary traffic tickets, unnecessary man hours because of the results that occurs from sand related incidents. If an officer hears the tire(s) of a vehicle with a slight rotation indicating a tire spinning, the officer responds by issuing a ticket for exhibition of speed, reckless driving, careless driving or nothing at all. Sand acts as ball bearings between two surfaces and reduces the ability to have a proper contact patch for accelerating, braking and turning, also known as “the traction circle”. Law enforcement officers may say that you are out of control, but what differentiates "control"? We all have different opinions and officers are given power to use their own discretion on making the call without proper knowledge of the individual(s) experience during traffic stops.

When it is necessary to repair or repave roads. The contractors sometimes must grove the pavement to pull up the old asphalt prior to laying on new asphalt. At moments, the course grove pavement actually creates excessive dangers to both motorcycles and cars. Motorcycles are more likely affected than cars because of the two wheel disadvantage. The clean-up of loose asphalt on the grooved pavement seams to lack strict standards. Leaving a type of ball bearing surface on grooved asphalt would compare to leaving sand on sidewalks in a senior citizen community or not applying anti-slip material in bath tubs for the elderly. If there is an accident on the road, the driver is usually ticketed, versus the contractor who left a hazardous situation and used the circumstantial excuse, 'there was adequate road construction signs warning the drivers'. This creates a domino effect for wasting time and money, but limited to courts, police officers, auto body shops, insurance claims/rates, air pollutants, traffic congestions, health insurance/care, funerals, etc.


Instead of guessing what could be done to improve safety for the public. You have taken the time to ask so the issue can be much more effective and efficient. Thank you!

FZRguy
Sun Apr 22nd, 2007, 01:46 AM
Regarding stiffer penalties for drivers that kill or injure motorcyclists, the AMA is putting a great deal of effort behind its justice for all campaign, which has been very successful in getting state legislation passed in many states. Also, the AMA is trying to get federal legislation passed that would prevent insurance companies from denying claims for injuries suffered while engaging in activities such as motorcycling. There is information about both these at the AMA web site if you guys think it is something worth reviewing.

As for rider training, I would not mind paying an extra $5 per year for my motorcycle tag to fund rider training. Kind of like the OHV stickers that trail riders are required to have. That money goes to fund trail maintenance, rider education, enforcement, etc. It directly benefits OHV users, and I’m for a similar program that will benefit street riders.

rforsythe
Tue Apr 24th, 2007, 04:47 PM
Well, I am very happy to say that our presentation went extremely well. We were personally thanked by most of the panel individually afterwards for coming so well prepared, and for bringing some unique ideas that have actually not been shared with the CSC yet. I feel that Scott, Jason, and I represented the sportbike community professionally and with much positive energy and can't thank them enough for their efforts in this, especially on such short notice.

We will be part of an ongoing effort to further the cause, and a lot of good stuff has been shared in that conference so far which continues through tomorrow. We will also be working with ABATE to help get CSC more involved with all that they have going on, and to help make sportbikers a more visible part of demonstrating the better qualities of our group.

Other than the points we've all discussed above, here are two unique things that we offered up that you are all seeing for the first time:

1. I own a domain name called ridingsafer.org. I have offered the use of this domain, as well as the free hosting of such, to create a group and vendor neutral "clearing house" to disseminate information on responsible riding techniques, training, and other items of interest. "They" were so interested in this that I have contact information for folks at ABATE, CDOT and some more national-level types that would like to make this succeed. We will be calling upon the riding community to help this by volunteering your skill and time in web development, content writing, and getting the word out. You will be seeing MUCH more on this soon.

2. I wrote a draft of a concept I am calling 'Rider Decision Making'. This is a 3-page handout that we gave to everyone there, showing how we can literally reduce motorcycle crashes, injuries, and fatalities, by teaching riders how to "think". Similar concepts have been used in aviation and other groups to recognize dangerous mental attitudes and do active risk management, so I've adapted several of these concepts to motorcycle-specific text and distributed it. A PDF will be available on ridingsafer.org within a few days hopefully. This was met with a lot of acceptance, and I actually hope to see it catch on in national curriculum's and other areas.

Our powerpoint will be posted soon; I'm also trying to get the rest of the presentations (though we were the only bike club to have a PP today) however I'm not sure I will be able to distribute them, as they aren't mine. We've also been asked to, and have agreed to be a part of an ongoing "Motorcycle Safety Summit", which will effectively involve local groups and discussion, with a return to these nationally-attended round tables perhaps annually. In addition we were asked to present at an international motorcycle safety conference that is being hosted in Colorado in 2008, which will be in front of about 600+ people from across the world.

Suffice to say I think we surprised some people today, and ultimately made some real progress. Things will be accomplished and I actually think lives will be saved from all of this. I'd like to thank all of you for your input as it helped us represent you well, and I look forward to bringing more good news as we go forward. We'll also be looking for many of you to help this occur, as it will definitely be a "group effort" among motorcyclists and sportbikers.

I also spoke with multiple people from Harley groups who are interested in "bridging the gap", so expect some events and rides in that spirit. I'm going to try and set something up with law enforcement as well, who I'm told is also very interested in something along those lines as I am. It seems we all just needed something like this to bring us all together and create movement, but I really believe this is going to do a lot towards making us safer on the roads and helping our public image, two things which can only benefit us.

TFOGGuys
Tue Apr 24th, 2007, 04:58 PM
:applause: Huge kudos to Ralph and Scott(EDIT: )and Jason for making a huge positive impression! For far too long the sportbike community has been perceived as reckless hooligans....

*GSXR~SNAIL*
Tue Apr 24th, 2007, 05:19 PM
Great job to all of you Ralph, Scott, and Jason. It sounds like things went very well. It's exciting to hear how they embraced your presentations and are looking forward to future feedback from the community.

Once again, great job!

rforsythe
Tue Apr 24th, 2007, 05:23 PM
:applause: Huge kudos to Ralph and Scott for making a huge positive impression! For far too long the sportbike community has been perceived as reckless hooligans....

PS: And Jason Bonnema too! ;)

Spiderman
Tue Apr 24th, 2007, 08:17 PM
That's great news Ralph! :up:

Once again, a big THANK YOU to Scott, Jason, and Ralph for representing us, and the whole motorcycling community so well! :applause:

pilot
Tue Apr 24th, 2007, 10:19 PM
Thank you for all your groups work, as well thanks go to all the other groups for their efforts. Also, a few members came up with an idea tonight. Unfortunately, too late to make the presentation--if qualified. So, I'm going to post up something in the Track Days section.

Pigpen
Tue Apr 24th, 2007, 10:49 PM
Thank you for all your groups work, as well thanks go to all the other groups for their efforts. Also, a few members came up with an idea tonight. Unfortunately, too late to make the presentation--if qualified. So, I'm going to post up something in the Track Days section.

your attempt to contribute to this post on motorcycle safety is like Michael Jackson contributing to children's daycare reform

rybo
Tue Apr 24th, 2007, 11:09 PM
I just want to say thanks to Ralph and Jason for including me in this. I can't stress enough how well recieved our input was at this forum.

While the presentation went extremely well, I think the real progress was made in the two hours AFTER the presentation was over when we talked directly with members of the NTSB and CDOT. They had a lot of interest in our presenstation and it was clear that they were impressed by the thought and effort we put into it. A lot of thanks goes to you guys who contributed something of value to this discussion.

You can look here for a copy of our powerpoint presentation.

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileSharing.woa/wa/default?user=scott.rybarik&templatefn=FileSharing2.html&xmlfn=TKDocument.2.xml&sitefn=RootSite.xml&aff=consumer&cty=US&lang=en

suave16
Wed Apr 25th, 2007, 08:04 PM
I have just one question and comment ....If I were on a board which is overlooked with a panel as large as these guys are I would say ....Rider safety is very important and one way we could improve this is get the Colorado Government to make it law that all Motorcycle riders must wear helmets, and my question is....do we really want that to happen.

dapper
Wed Apr 25th, 2007, 08:30 PM
Secretly, we need natural selection, we want natural selection to weed-out some folks. A helmet law doesn't address the state of mind of a rider or driver.


Gun Control is hitting what you aim for, just as, wearing a helmet to protect an asset.:|

rforsythe
Wed Apr 25th, 2007, 08:34 PM
I have just one question and comment ....If I were on a board which is overlooked with a panel as large as these guys are I would say ....Rider safety is very important and one way we could improve this is get the Colorado Government to make it law that all Motorcycle riders must wear helmets, and my question is....do we really want that to happen.

No, we don't want that to happen. Well, maybe you do, but the majority definitely don't. ;) Statistics are showing a large increase in helmet use over the past few years anyway, to the point that quite a high (and surprising) percentage use them now - even the Harley riders. Is a law necessary if most people do it anyway?

We're adults, we know what we're getting ourselves into. We should be able to make up our own minds.

suave16
Thu Apr 26th, 2007, 12:34 PM
yeah and this could give them a idea about a law on helmets and that would suck

rybo
Thu Apr 26th, 2007, 12:56 PM
The idea is already out there and will likely make a list of recommendations that the NTSB makes to the State regarding motorcycle safety.

The group we met with was not heavily focussed on creating or implementing a helmet law, and seemed very concentrated in areas of education and awareness. A helmet law is ONE of 1000 possible solutions to improving motorcycle safety in the state.

That being said, helmet use is on the rise, with about 70% of riders reporting that they wear one "most of the time". Voluntary use is a much better solution because it is a person's choice. People who choose to be safer usually do that in more than one way.

Another surprising statistic from the meeting was that aprox. 35% of motocyclists surveyed indicate that they do NOT have an M endorsement on their licenses. One big step towards increasing motorcycle safety will be to assure that people take the necessary steps to have a proper license. I need to provide my DL to get car insurance....why not have to prove I have an M endorsement to get motorcycle insurance?

will-t
Thu Apr 26th, 2007, 03:16 PM
The idea is already out there and will likely make a list of recommendations that the NTSB makes to the State regarding motorcycle safety.

The group we met with was not heavily focussed on creating or implementing a helmet law, and seemed very concentrated in areas of education and awareness. A helmet law is ONE of 1000 possible solutions to improving motorcycle safety in the state.

That being said, helmet use is on the rise, with about 70% of riders reporting that they wear one "most of the time". Voluntary use is a much better solution because it is a person's choice. People who choose to be safer usually do that in more than one way.

Another surprising statistic from the meeting was that aprox. 35% of motocyclists surveyed indicate that they do NOT have an M endorsement on their licenses. One big step towards increasing motorcycle safety will be to assure that people take the necessary steps to have a proper license. I need to provide my DL to get car insurance....why not have to prove I have an M endorsement to get motorcycle insurance?

I just recently went in for plates and part of the procedure was that the clerk checked my license for the M before I could receive my registration. When that statistic was brought up, was there any mention of how those 35% manager to register their ride without being properly licensed?

BlueDog
Thu Apr 26th, 2007, 04:24 PM
I just recently went in for plates and part of the procedure was that the clerk checked my license for the M before I could receive my registration. When that statistic was brought up, was there any mention of how those 35% manager to register their ride without being properly licensed?

Interesting, I didnt notice if the lady at the dmv did that or not when i went in today... But that is a good idea, no plates for your bike if you haven't gotten your endorsement. But at the same time getting thatendorsement is not hard enough and the test taken to get it proves very little about a riders competency.

TFOGGuys
Thu Apr 26th, 2007, 04:55 PM
I need to provide my DL to get car insurance....why not have to prove I have an M endorsement to get motorcycle insurance?

You need to have an insured motorcycle to take the riding portion of the test to receive the coveted "M"(or alternatively, you can take an MSF course). So, I guess it's a question of which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Perhaps if the government feels a need to regulate such things, the requirement should be either a valid motorcycle endorsement OR a valid motorcycle learner's permit to insure the bike.

rforsythe
Fri Apr 27th, 2007, 01:45 PM
I sat through the panel's formal recommendations this morning, which essentially went into a report that is in the state's hands; that report will get some additional editing and discussion, and then be released to the public. I do have some finer points of the recommendations though:
- A lot of it was directed at the effectiveness of the MOST program, or lack thereof. Basically the whole thing needs a review to ensure it's living up to its legal mandates, and that things that should be getting done actually are.
- CDOT already does a lot I wasn't aware of. They've been recommended to actually make a point of telling people about it.
- CSP and other law enforcement is really trying to help this out, they've had some recommendations on ways to improve that.

Our (meaning the presentation we gave) ideas on how to fix things actually made it into the formal report, which is a pretty cool thing. We'll continue to work to make sure it actually happens. Other clubs would like to interact with CSC, and I met with CSP's main motorcycle guy Tim, who I hope to work with on better involvement with them as well. I was even asked if we had a counterpart in Ohio that could do that presentation; I indicated that we didn't, but might be able to do something there all the same, we will see what happens.

The positive reactions and outcome of this conference continue to evolve, but it is most certainly gathering steam, and results will come of it - likely in the form of lives saved. Good stuff. :up:

rybo
Fri Apr 27th, 2007, 01:49 PM
Ralph,

thanks for taking the effort to go to this and hear the outcome. I'm glad that what we said in there had some impact on the final report and I would be willing to go to Ohio (time dependent of course) to make a presentation there as well.

Not sure if I'll see you before then, but if not see you at R2SL

Scott

rforsythe
Fri Apr 27th, 2007, 01:53 PM
A lot of impact, Scott. In fact we made a lasting impression...

pilot
Fri Apr 27th, 2007, 03:36 PM
:) That is some good news today. Thanks again for taking the time to work on this project. Good luck at R2SL

pilot
Wed May 23rd, 2007, 03:06 PM
Ralph, et. al.,
Nearly a month has gone by since the last update on the forum. Has a copy of the report been released for review? If not yet so released when do the forum hosts say the expected release might be? This question was brought up by another party and I felt it reasonable to inquire. Thank you, in advance, for your reply.

rybo
Wed May 23rd, 2007, 03:15 PM
Pilot,

To my knowledge a copy has not yet been released. It was a government project, so I'm sure once it is released it will be a very snazzy, hardbound edition suitable for collecting. They were conducting several of these forums in several cities that were having motorcycle accidents on the rise, so the final printed edition may be a compilaton of all of the sessions with sub-sections for the different regions?

We were not given an expected release date. I'll get with Ralph this week and see what (if anything) we can do to assure we get our hands on it first thing once it's available.

Scott

pilot
Wed May 23rd, 2007, 03:33 PM
Thanks for the quick reply. Perhaps the Gov will move forward with some speed on this. Not only would that mean getting the report out, it might have the side-effect of saving a life or two.

Nick_Ninja
Wed May 23rd, 2007, 03:39 PM
In the mean time .................................... check this out:

http://www.implementnams.org/

pilot
Wed May 23rd, 2007, 03:44 PM
thanks Nick.

Nick_Ninja
Wed May 23rd, 2007, 03:51 PM
Fast Facts

Motorcycle fatalities have climbed an alarming 104 percent from 1997 to 2005—the 8th year in a row that motorcycle related deaths have increased.
The U.S. Department of Transportation says that in 2005, 4,315 motorcyclists died in crashes, up 7.7 percent from 2004.
In Colorado, 87 people were killed in motorcycle crashes in 2005. More than 76 percent of these motorcycle fatalities resulted from crashes with no helmet use.
Colorado motorcycle fatalities have nearly doubled during the past decade, increasing from 49 motorcycle crash deaths in 1994 to 87 deaths in 2005. The number of crashes and injuries are also on the rise. In 2004, there were 1,899 motorcycle-related injuries compared to 1,582 in 1994.
In 2005 an estimated 78,000 motorcycle riders were injured in accidents nationwide, up 2.6 percent from 76,000 in 2004 and 37 percent from 57,000 in 1995.
Motorcyclists are 34 times as likely as passenger car occupants to die in a crash, per vehicle mile traveled.Taken from the CSP web site: http://csp.state.co.us/Upload/motorcyclesafety.doc

rforsythe
Wed May 23rd, 2007, 04:09 PM
I'll get the final copy when it comes, probably emailed to me. I recently received a draft but have not had time to review it. There was a *lot* of information discussed, so it will take time for sure.

Scott - I don't think we'll get a "national" report per se, as I think they're being custom-made for each area the conference is held in. Whether they compile them into an encyclopedia of all reports I do not know.

dapper
Wed May 23rd, 2007, 07:13 PM
In the mean time .................................... check this out:

http://www.implementnams.org/
Jeff, thanks for this excellent source of information! (Admin too!)
:up:

smcobb99
Mon Jun 18th, 2007, 01:23 PM
One thing I do that helps tremendously; in heavy traffic, keep the RPM's up, just a little, so the engine alerts everyone of your presence. (I have a sportbike and I can cruize on the highway silently, but I find if I keep it in 3rd, everyone knows I'm there. Steve

-n8-
Tue Oct 30th, 2007, 11:23 AM
I know this thread is a little dead, but here is my $.02:

Natural selection.

Its dangerous out there. Be careful. If you are not, you will pay, with medical bills, injury, permanent disfigurement.

I bought my R6 at the age of 21. Now it has 36,000 miles on it and I like to ride "in a spirited fashion" but have thus far been able to avoid destroying it. That is not by chance.

I think Jerry Seinfeld put it best, talking about how stupid, but necessary helmets are. He said, " The only thing stranger than the helmet is of course the helmet law. Which is designed to protect a brain that is functioning so poorly that it's not even trying to protect the cracking of the skull its in,"

That being said, the only accident I have ever been involved in was me sitting at a red light, a RED one, and I was hit from behind by an elderly couple.
+1 License re-testing beyond certain age
+1 Tiered License. I know I can keep the wheels on the ground, just let me show you!!

DARK ANGEL
Thu Apr 3rd, 2008, 07:02 PM
make a mandatory awareness class or course for cagers so they understand that they arent the only ones on the road, and yes this would apply for everyone even me, i own a cage....

06sv1000s
Sun Jul 20th, 2008, 05:01 PM
When I first got to Colorado Springs I bought my first bike, old zx6. I always heard that it is best to start out on a smaller bike and even though I've been riding quads and dirtbikes my whole life I agree. I started on that and during the first summer 2006 there were 18 fatalities w/in 3 months or so just from Ft Carson soldiers. I know that I'm going to get crap for this but....it boiled down to too much bike for too little experience. I know that there is NO way to regulate what kind of bike a person buys for a first bike but MOST of those fatalities were on larger than 600cc bikes and first time riders/buyers! Bikes these days, especially liter bikes have far too much power for a novice rider, hell most intermediate and a little better still don't have the ability to push these bikes to their limits!

Just my $.02, hope the meeting and report fairs well for the riders!

lightspeed
Tue Mar 17th, 2009, 11:13 AM
Reviving an old post.

One of the main ways I'd improve motorcycle safety would be to force ALL drivers (cagers included) to take the MSF course and ride a motorcycle (provided by the state) for at least at 6 months (weather permiting) before being able to get behind the wheel of a car.

May sound a little harsh...but I think one of the main reasons cagers contribute to so many accidents involving motorcycles is b/c many are self absorbed and only look for other cagers like themselves when driving....many also have absolutely no idea what it's like to ride a bike daily in traffic around cars, trucks...etc.

On the other hand, I'm willing to bet that most bikers who also drive cages are much more observant and also just better drivers in general.

DK74
Thu Apr 30th, 2009, 09:41 AM
Just saw this news....ride safe everyone and RIP. http://www.9news.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=114781&catid=346

whitebrad
Mon Jun 29th, 2009, 06:42 AM
okay, so i'm new, but i have an idea of what may help motorcycle riders...

i just took and passed the most program and was fairly shocked at the ease, even though i took the experienced rider program. Now, I have been riding for about 19 years, so I didn't expect a whole lot of difficulty, but it was really easy.

I would suggest that the course contain some slide maneuvers/recovery, with emphasis on how to right the motorcycle. In the army, when they introduced motorcycles, they had to learn to lay the bike down to dismount and shoot! I am guessing that this helped them with being able to control slides and to control losses of traction in both front and rear wheels.

I would also encourage more focus on situational riding on "the range," with more practical applications of lane control, especially when it comes to planning escape routes for dicey situations, and danger recognition and avoiding being trapped in situations.

I am a writer, if needed. I used to do technical writing in the form of specifications for both architectural and mechanical applications. I am also versed in public speaking and speechwriting if needed, and would be happy to help out in any way possible.

Nikos
Sat Jun 11th, 2011, 10:33 AM
Ok, I have not read all the replies, but in the ones I read I did not see the #1 cause of near-accidents I have had.

Require hands free operation of cellphones while driving a car and impose a stiff fine if non-compliant. And outlaw texting and driving (and enforce it!).

I commute on a bike on I-70, and every other day there is someone frantically talking on their cellphone, while rapidly changing lanes without signaling -- not to mention checking.

I understand this is not motorbike-specific, but it will make a big difference for us.

Cheers,
Nikos.

Swift
Sat Jun 11th, 2011, 10:36 AM
I'd have everyone mount deer whistles to their front ends to keep animals off the road. Either that or have the Aflac duck ride with me everywhere I go.

dirkterrell
Sun Jun 12th, 2011, 11:01 AM
Require hands free operation of cellphones while driving a car and impose a stiff fine if non-compliant.

It's not the use of hands or not. It's the drain on cerebral processing power that causes the problems.

ATTIKATROL
Tue Jul 19th, 2011, 12:09 PM
True again..It cost me roughly $23 to get a drivers licence and $150+ every year to do a bike course..(Unless your military, and then its free) But its mandatory.

+100 I hope I haven't missed the deadline on this. Coming from a military family and moving ALOT, one thing that always upset our family was the lack of standardized education requirments from state to state. Putting this into a motorcycle discussion is an easy transfer. I have noticed on other forum discussions on this that the fee for an MSF type class varies greatly from state to state. Some are as low as $65 and some as high as $600! I agree with the tiered license system similar to european and asian license requirments. I also would like to see more insurance discounts for rider training. Though that is something probably to take up with actual insurance companies. :think: Some sort of an incentive program for new rider training would be nice. And more advertising on the importance of new rider training, and follow ups for more expirienced riders. Most new riders I talk to have no idea about the MSF or any other class for that matter.

koru
Tue Jul 19th, 2011, 10:09 PM
I think that if drivers looked over their shoulders instead of barely using there mirrors it would be safer. Also our own personal lane position and awareness helps greatly. However you will never see a rider using their cell phone or eating food or reading a bloody newspaper of all things while riding so just be aware of your surroundings and stay frosty. :P

oatmealman
Thu Jul 21st, 2011, 11:23 AM
Im a newbie here and sort of a newbie to riding and I haven't taken msf but i use to ride dirtbikes and drive some high hp cars(700+) and don't feel msf is required.Yes it helps im sure but the biggest thing to me was riding with a couple friends that have been riding for 10 years.

I caught on to what they were doing,how they did it,why they did it,and how to be safe.for the record I don't ride crotch rockets.I ride cruisers and I'm quite offended by the statement of alcohol related deaths on motorcycles being blamed on us.Yes people choose to do it,but i've seen plenty of sport bike riders going down the highway at 100+ and pulling wheelies.

Both sides do things equally stupid so lets not put the blame on different groups.also for what its worth i never drink and drive/ride(not even one)

UglyDogRacing
Tue Jul 26th, 2011, 10:27 PM
I caught on to what they were doing,how they did it,why they did it,and how to be safe.for the record I don't ride crotch rockets.I ride cruisers and I'm quite offended by the statement of alcohol related deaths on motorcycles being blamed on us.Yes people choose to do it,but i've seen plenty of sport bike riders going down the highway at 100+ and pulling wheelies.

Both sides do things equally stupid so lets not put the blame on different groups.also for what its worth i never drink and drive/ride(not even one)

Statistically most motorcycle fatalities occur with middle-aged male riders on cruisers where alochol is involved. That information was provided to us by CDOT and MOST when I was previously part of the Ride Smart program.

JDUBB
Sun May 27th, 2012, 10:22 AM
While riding on public roads, every motorcyclist should have the mentality that everyone else wants you dead.