Rider Down

[beavisr1]

I was out on a ride today and we just started out ride about (30 bikes) and we were just getting to the ride and there was a cop waiting for us and gave the front man a 78 in a 35 ticket. 1st bummer of the day.

So then we lost about 1/2 of our riders and then contuniuned on. So we went to a gas station hoping to meet some of the lost riders and then went out for a ride. 2 miles into the next adventure then a guy on a gixxer 1000 went down hard. We all stopped and assesed the damage. Lucklily one of the riders live 2 miles from the crash site and went and got his truck and we had to lift a 400+ pund bike up into a 3500 dodge duelly. The bike woouldnt roll. The frame was completley snapped in two and the front rim was squashed. So the bike had to be carried. The little dude was ok but paid cash for the bike and only had liability and just only had the bike for 3 months. A freaking gixxer 1k for a new rider. http://www.sportbikeforum.net/images/smilies/dunno9df.gif. So we went back to the guys house with the truck and hung out waiting for the downed riders wife to show up in their truck. So that was the day and we didnt ride anywhere really from there. Enjoy the pics

[Sully]

damn that REALLY sucks... glad the guy is ok... but ... WOW... first bike ? liability only insurance ? ... 78 in a 35 .. ? :wtf:

[Slo]

That sucks, pretty spirited pace huh? If you get a chance, can you ask him if he wants to sell the tail piece? It looks like it stayed out of the pavement.

[Sully]

:lol:.. dang.... Jay is all ready for the yard sale.... :bigeyes:

[Bueller]

WOW is right.
What's up with these Gixxers breaking in half?
Own the streets, own the track, get owned by the legend :lol:

Seriously glad the dude was able to walk away, I came up on the group after splitting off with Krod to limp his POS KTM back to the barn. After the start of that ride it doesn't suprise me much. People slow the fuck down!

[Bueller]

He is going to have to part it out to get anything back out of it.

[Sully]

yeah... people slow down... stop thinking you can rock it as hard as Bueller does !!! :hump:

j/k

[mayhem]

yeah, that was a bummer.poor kid. but he's ok and thats what matters........ but i think when you mix new rider + gsxr1000 + grabbing a handful of front brake in corner with gravel + tryin to stay with front group = ouch.

[Sully]

maybe he didn't pay attention during the "Pre-Ride" speech ? :dunno:

[mayhem]

guess not..... but i did, i'm a good listener

[Bueller]

yeah... people slow down... stop thinking you can rock it as hard as Bueller does !!! :hump:

j/k

Fuckers were passing me! Then parking in the corners.

[Sully]

I like parking in the corners with your Bueller :makeout:... ;) :lol: I did that moreso when I was a n00b... .. altho, I did do it at VIR in turn 1... :banghead:

feel bad for the kid tho... groups that large can be difficult when everyone is at a different skill level of riding.. ..plus that whole testosterone thing gets going too....

[Banshee]

Hope that dumbass in the group riding the Harley didn't slow you down too much, Bueller.

;-)

I was right behind him when he went down, he is definitely a lucky bastard. He was actually in front of the bike skidding into the guardrail. I thought for sure the bike was going to crush him.

The front tire hit and the bike spun around him instead.

[Bueller]

Everyone knows Harley's (and Buells) can't keep up. :lol:

[Keepitgreen]

I like parking in the corners with your Bueller :makeout:... ;) :lol: I did that moreso when I was a n00b... .. altho, I did do it at VIR in turn 1... :banghead:

feel bad for the kid tho... groups that large can be difficult when everyone is at a different skill level of riding.. ..plus that whole testosterone thing gets going too....

Hey! I've seen when your estrogen level gets up there! Hell, I've gone with you when it did.. Fun times..

[Xtremjeepn]

maybe he didn't pay attention during the "Pre-Ride" speech ? :dunno:

I have pretty mixed feelings on this ride and this crash.


Here are all the factors I see.


First of all on the front page of this PUBLIC website there is listed "weekly events" and "MELLOW RIDE". This leads people to think that it would be a "reasonable" pace.

The pre-ride speach also eludes to this. Denverbusa (sorry not sure how it is really spelled out on here) Stated that the "faster" riders would go first and he would lead the rest of the bikes at a pace that would probably venture a touch over the limit. This pace was actually upwards of double+ the limit at times.

To be totally fair. Everyone is responsible for their own ride. So at the end of the day the crash can only be blamed on one person.

I think after the speeding ticket and the splitting of the group the "fast" group got mixed in with some newer riders. So the pace got set a bit faster. No worries, no ones fault really. Still his responsibility to ride within his limits.

Then you get a mix of issues. The guy shows up on a liter bike. This would lead you to believe that he probably has some riding time in. Chad (crash test pilot of the GSXR) jumped right in with both feet, made friends and was pushing to be with the front(or at least middle) of the pack.

We should all be a bit more cautious in the future. If the limits are going to be streatched at all, we should know who we are riding with. I think "mellow ride" might need to be changed to "Spirited" or something else just so people might have different expectations. (keep in mind that total stragers like Chad will stumble onto this and want to join such a ride)

If we are going to segregate paces, we need to stick to them.

$0.04 (inflation)

Thankfully he was okay.




(Did you really have to post a picture of my ugly mug staring in awwww at the frame damage of the Gixxxer?)

[firegixx600]

Damn! That's actually worse than my bike!!! Yikes!

[krod]

[quote=Bueller;210379]
I came up on the group after splitting off with Krod to limp his POS KTM back to the barn.


:x fuckin Nazi bike. This time its getting all the upgrades and steel valves instead of titan.

[Bueller]

First of all on the front page of this PUBLIC website there is listed "weekly events" and "MELLOW RIDE". This leads people to think that it would be a "reasonable" pace.


That page is sooooo old, and no one has paid attention to that in years, besides this was a called ride not the "weekly" ride. The weekly doesn't get posted it is assumed.

[Keepitgreen]

I think the only time a ride is "mellow" would be on the way to the ride..
Then it's every man (or woman) for themselves.

[Xtremjeepn]

That page is sooooo old, and no one has paid attention to that in years, besides this was a called ride not the "weekly" ride. The weekly doesn't get posted it is assumed.

The ONLY reason this guy showed up was because of the weekly ride calendar on the front page! So just because YOU don't read it does not mean others don't!!

It should be removed from the site if you seriously don't want or expect people to show up!!

[Bueller]

The ONLY reason this guy showed up was because of the weekly ride calendar on the front page! So just because YOU don't read it does not mean others don't!!

It should be removed from the site if you seriously don't want or expect people to show up!!That was the whole point to that pre ride talk. Ride your own ride, if you feel pressed slow down to a comfortable pace the group will wait at the stops.
Some one crashes and people look for reasons or others to blame it on. Happens every time. This is why I show up to these things once in a blue moon, and when it goes stupid I split. When I want to go fast I go by myself or I go racing. Every individual is in control of his or her own machine, period.

[King Nothing]

just another reason i don't ride with groups.

[Bueller]

just another reason i don't ride with groups.
That and you are seriously embarrassingly slow. And you get lost.

[Vehicle 1]

Personally, I have mixed feelings about the whole “GSX1000 as a first bike” thing. After talking to him, it seems that an accumulation of factors was what made him crash, and in my opinion, in this case it was not because he had all that power in his hand (he was behind me when he went down). I have seen plenty of people on liter bikes taking it easy even with all that hp. By what he told me, it could have happened on a 400. However, some people should not get bikes like that as a beginner bike if they do not have self-discipline, I will definitely not argue that.
The lead rider and I where riding fairly fast, but we were not blasting the straights, just keeping a happy pace on the turns; that gave other riders time to catch up without having to accelerate hard. Furthermore, when I asked him what gear he was in, he told me that 4th maybe 5th. THAT was the main cause of the accident, I believe.
Listening to him it appears that he felt that he was going a little to fast into the turn, then cut the throttle to shave some speed but had no engine brake (we were going about 60ish, and in a bike like that even 4th is way to hi of a gear for that speed). Afterwards, the usual beginner mistakes happened; mainly panicking and poor body positioning, after that target fixation, grabbing the front brake abruptly in the middle of a turn, and then… ouch. He also mentioned that he was having a lot of fun and maybe started to lose concentration.
I do believe that each person should know what their skill level is and accelerate accordingly to such skills, no matter if you have 160hp or 80hp. But in this case I think that the way that he went down does not reflect exaggerated throttle use, it reflects lack of experience and not knowing how to keep your mind focused when a “situation” is about to happen.
I am happy that he is ok, and I hope that he does not quit riding because of this; he mentioned that he might not get another bike…
Please take this post as my way of clarifying the circumstances, not as an intent to start an argument. Ride safe.

D.

(sorry for the speech....ahem)

[-=LiQuiD=-]

I was there, but I didn't see it happen.

It's tough. You're still learning to ride. You're in a group of riders who are more experienced and you're in a location that you're not familiar with. The group goes and all you can think about is: "got to keep up" or "stay with the pack or I'll be lost". Too many variables to make the rider uncomfortable. I met Chad, Cole and one other riding a gsxr1000 at 285 & Broadway on the way over to Morrison. They all were riding at very mellow pace. Since I had caught up to them I decided also to move back to a mellow pace. Chad had no problem operating the 1000 then. Good Luck Chad. We're all glad you're okay. If you truly enjoy riding we'll see you out there again. ERiC

[King Nothing]

That and you are seriously embarrassingly slow. And you get lost.Both comments are quite true. I'm ok with that.

[Bassil Duwaik]

Sounds like another day in the life of a biker. Xtremjeepn couldn't have phrased it better. Seriously if your a new rider and want to push a liter bike do it at the track! I know to many people the track may sound intimidating but it's really not.

It's a "controlled environment" where you can know the limits on that beautiful piece of engineering we call a bike and sometimes unexpectingly exceed them. But you don't have to worry so much about hitting stationary objects at the track which is a major problem! Even something like a fly or pebble smashing into your knuckle at speed hurts like hell, now try doing that with your whole body. There are many riders who'll vouch for this.

I'm by no means telling you not to speed or to speed. Just today I went on a "sprinted" ride out here and thought to myself I'll take it easy as I was riding to the meeting spot. Midway though the day I kept finding myself edging up to the leader time and time again, and it felt good having enough confidence and experience to keep up with the lead guy but I swear if it wasn't for Jay's house...cough cough I mean IMI and everyone else at IMI and elsewhere I would never have been able to do it. In short, life goes on.

0.06 cents (inflation)

[Slo]

Jay's House??? Hahaha....

I think during group rides, it's important to try and determine who the newer people are on bikes or in the area and keep a dedicated lead for them (theres always volunteers). We hear/see of someone going down over the weekends, sometimes mulitple accidents. If we are truely concerned as a group, someone in each group should volunteer to lead and follow a potential newbie. It's not a fool proof solution but it can help.

Just glad this didn't turn out to be something even worse.

[Jayock]

Personally, I have mixed feelings about the whole “GSX1000 as a first bike” thing. After talking to him, it seems that an accumulation of factors was what made him crash, and in my opinion, in this case it was not because he had all that power in his hand (he was behind me when he went down). I have seen plenty of people on liter bikes taking it easy even with all that hp. By what he told me, it could have happened on a 400. However, some people should not get bikes like that as a beginner bike if they do not have self-discipline, I will definitely not argue that.
The lead rider and I where riding fairly fast, but we were not blasting the straights, just keeping a happy pace on the turns; that gave other riders time to catch up without having to accelerate hard. Furthermore, when I asked him what gear he was in, he told me that 4th maybe 5th. THAT was the main cause of the accident, I believe.
Listening to him it appears that he felt that he was going a little to fast into the turn, then cut the throttle to shave some speed but had no engine brake (we were going about 60ish, and in a bike like that even 4th is way to hi of a gear for that speed). Afterwards, the usual beginner mistakes happened; mainly panicking and poor body positioning, after that target fixation, grabbing the front brake abruptly in the middle of a turn, and then… ouch. He also mentioned that he was having a lot of fun and maybe started to lose concentration.
I do believe that each person should know what their skill level is and accelerate accordingly to such skills, no matter if you have 160hp or 80hp. But in this case I think that the way that he went down does not reflect exaggerated throttle use, it reflects lack of experience and not knowing how to keep your mind focused when a “situation” is about to happen.
I am happy that he is ok, and I hope that he does not quit riding because of this; he mentioned that he might not get another bike…
Please take this post as my way of clarifying the circumstances, not as an intent to start an argument. Ride safe.

D.

(sorry for the speech....ahem)

Completely disagree. Learning on a big bike increases your learning curve dramatically. So while the majority of your focus is on controlling the throttle responsibly, you are not able to fully focus on proper braking, body positioning etc. You simply cannot learn quickly on a big bike for your first bike. I have never seen a truly fast rider who started on a liter bike, unless they moved down for a while.

Had he been on the smaller bike his skill level and focus level may have been high enough by this point to avoid the crash. Everyone thinks they are the exception, but in reality if you are good enough to pick up a liter bike and immediately ride it well as your first bike, you should probably go have a conversation with a guy named Ten in Sweden and start picking up some paychecks.

[64BonnieLass]

When I want to go fast I go by myself or I go racing. Every individual is in control of his or her own machine, period.

Or ya go with T and blow me out of the water (Tards have mad skilz).

Everything you say is true. Dave you are an excellent rider. I hope others learn from you. I did!

[krod]

Wanna sell your master cylinder?

[Vehicle 1]

[quote=Jayock;210500]Completely disagree... So while the majority of your focus is on controlling the throttle responsibly, you are not able to fully focus on proper braking, body positioning etc.quote]


I understand your point and I agree with it if your focus is becoming a “truly fast rider”. However, what I am talking about has nothing to do with becoming a racer-fast rider, with maximum corner speed and all that. I am saying that having a big bike does not have to impede your learning if you have self-control (but some people may be better off learning on smaller bikes, I agree with that); especially if you are not looking for the limit (at which throttle control is extremely important). If he had been alone, with the same bike, and not trying to follow faster riders, he possibly would not have crashed on that turn. Again, I agree with ya, but I think we are talking about slightly different subjects. :)

[mayhem]

I was there, but I didn't see it happen.

It's tough. You're still learning to ride. You're in a group of riders who are more experienced and you're in a location that you're not familiar with. The group goes and all you can think about is: "got to keep up" or "stay with the pack or I'll be lost". Too many variables to make the rider uncomfortable. I met Chad, Cole and one other riding a gsxr1000 at 285 & Broadway on the way over to Morrison. They all were riding at very mellow pace. Since I had caught up to them I decided also to move back to a mellow pace. Chad had no problem operating the 1000 then. Good Luck Chad. We're all glad you're okay. If you truly enjoy riding we'll see you out there again. ERiC

hey liquid, you play cs don't you? i'm 4:20 happygilmore lol

[-=LiQuiD=-]

I do. I've been off and on lately. Mostly been playing 'Gun Game' mod.

[Banshee]

Again, I was the guy behind him when he went down. It was NOT excessive speed, it was definitely lack of experience. Like Vehicle said, he was in too high of a gear.

He was actually going at a reasonable speed, and didn't have the engine braking to avoid high-side OR the power to pull out of a low-side. These are skills that come from experience and learning proper technique.

I was just shifting into 2nd on my Harley, there is no way he should have been past 1st on a GSXR. Again, experience.

I think the 1000 was a bad decision, but not because of the power... Because of the price. Being a new rider, you need to expect a crash or two. If you spend every last penny on a brand new shiny bike and wreck it, you can't AFFORD to keep riding. Unfortunatley, it looks like that's what he may have done.

Your first bike should be a cheap beater or old "track bike". Dump it a few times, get some experience under your belt, then get something nice.

As a new rider, Ego is dangerous. It affects more than just how hard you ride, it affects how "pretty" your bike has to be. Buying a clunker as your first bike also helps you get your ego under control, because you're not afraid of being seen on a beater. It helps you realize that riding is about having fun and honing your skills. It's about challenging yourself physically and mentally, not about worrying what others think of you.

Hopefully he'll be able to part out what's left of the GSXR, get an older bike, and learn the right way. It won't be as nice as the GSXR, but at least he'll keep riding.

[konichd]

This isn't all to suprising unfortunately :( After Terra got his ticket KEN and I split off because of a couple reasons. First the groups were far to large! Instead of 4-5 bike groups it was more 10-16 in a pack, far too much difference in riding level to be safe. Second, the pace was pretty spirited for leaving so late, you could tell tickets were going to be handed out as soon as we left the conoco.

Hopefully this will curve people's enthusiasm a little bit and using a little bit more self-restraint will make these larger rides more enjoyable in the future. :)

[Slo]

Konichd is right, last year we have several large groups on group rides (20 per group) but all the group leads were pretty strict on knowing who was who in the group and that dictated the pace.

Sometimes it's hard for a newbie to decide if the group is too fast until they are already "commited". Eric (liquid) mentioned many reasons that I believe contribute to trying to keep up......for newer riders or less-skilled.

We all know of this pressure since we were all new at one time and also we see the same thing happen every week.

[konichd]

Agreed J! :)

I saw a lot of new faces, which I like, but I think a few might have been shocked at the "pace" of the ride at first. Plus the groups were a little too big for my liking since I only knew 1 person in my 12+ sized group.

The ride was well planned, but fell a little short on execution. The ticket was definately a downer and broke down a very promising ride. No one is to blame, things happen, hopefully the next big ride we can improve on. :)

I still had a good time though. To all the new people, hopefully this won't get you down and I'll see more new faces at the Conoco soon. :)

[denverbusa]

Do not take this as trying to justify myself as I do not feel that I need to, but this may help others should they plan a ride in the public forum which is something I do not believe I will ever do again. Lessons learned.




In general this is not what a normal group ride is like. I know there are others that will not ride with groups because of this exact thing and I can certainly respect that. I enjoy riding with the group as I feel safer when there are others there to watch my back.
LESSON: The regulars at the MoCo are my group, others are welcome to earn their stripes but it will take a while. I like to think I have earned mine. We know each other, we all know where we should be in the pack, we have nothing to prove to each other. When new faces show up they are welcomed but the ride pace is established by each rider for themselves and that is the way it should be. There are days when I can and do lead there are days when I will sweep it just depends.

A lead group of 4-5 experienced riders took off in front of us, which I offered to those who wanted to join so they wouldn't be in the main group. We left right after them and caught up with them at the light leaving Morrison. I think there were too many there and the pack mentality took over about.... oh... downtown Morrison. By the time I got to the second Red Rocks Gate 10-12 bikes passed me (I was in the right lane going the speed limit). This left about 10 bikes behind me but my head count was useless.
Lesson: Let each group leave at least 5 minutes apart so that each group stays together.

I knew there were people that were not going to stay with the group mixed in with the group. They had just met up at the same place or didn't have the time to go the whole distance, turning around at Deckers or what ever...
Lesson: If planning a group ride, verify who is on the ride and who is not. Be specific about counting heads and split up into groups if it is too many. I confess this lack of judgment.
Lesson: I recommend if planning a public forum ride, meet at a different location than the MoCo or other normal meeting place. This will prevent mixing of groups, riders and possible skill sets

There were those in the main group that passed the main group on the first stretch.
Lesson: Don't be afraid to tell people that if you plan on breaking off right away take off now to avid the impression that they are part of the group, good bad or indifferent.The individual issues that occurred were not out of the ordinary.

Someone got a ticket... gee that never happens.
a NOOB (not meant as a derogatory term) put his bike down at a relatively slow speed Luckily. Probably not the last one of those.
The group split up and thinned out due to these factors compiling up not any one eventBut unfortunately they happened on a ride I set up. I did the pre-ride meeting and thought I covered things very carefully. I was setting up a ride also not a nursery system. Some said they heard Safety lound and clear apparently some did not. I believe the riders still behind me and with us would have been able to have an excellent day. It was nice and cool up in the hills. After the downed rider was taken care of I did continue on with the ride to Cripple Creek for lunch and turned around for a great uneventful second half of the day.

[pilot]

DB,

Welcome to the "stuff it takes to put on a ride" department. Sorry I missed out on the ride. I was installing can lights and smoke detectors the whole day. We'll get out and do a ride in the near future.

P

[krod]

Its fuckin Bueller's fault he is always going way to fast on that sportbike wanna be.:)

[TomB]

I agree with Denverbusa. I heard his pre ride talk. He clearly stated safety, not passing on right, its your break and your throttle and your choice how to use them safely.I feel bad that he doesn't want to post a ride again, because I had suggested the ride to him the week before. So if he wants to post a ride again I would post for him, not that it changes anything. He is right about the ticket we all get them, got them and hate them. I also think the fast group is out of control (thank you), the middle group is keeping the PACE , and I am sorry to say this, but the slow group is speeding. (Remeber that falls under anything over the posted limit.) Dont tell me the slow group is doing 35 in a 35. It goes back to you, are responsible for yourself. Just because I do it doesnt mean you have to. I decided to lead up the canyon from moco, I decided to follow behind the black ninja that got the ticket. I decided to wait for the ninja at Pine Junction and let the group ride ahead. The group was still 10 strong, that's when the gsxr crashed. Then I decided to get my truck and get the bike off the road. All discisions I made and no one else. So who is ready to ride this weekend?

[pilot]

Ride this weekend!? Heck yah! I found some new dirt roads Tom. j/k (you probably still swearing my name.)

[konichd]

I hope Mark organizes more rides in the future. I've ridden with Mark and they've been some enjoyable rides. As Mark said this isn't the norm and it just wasn't our day. :)

See you all this weekend!

[Bueller]

Its fuckin Bueller's fault he is always going way to fast on that sportbike wanna be.:)
Always pointing fingers aren't you, everyone knows KTM's are slow. :yes:

[denverbusa]

Thanks for the votes of confidence and I will certainly not stop coming to the Conoco but for me I think the scheduled rides just bring out the people who don't normally ride and that is not the people I want to ride with. I will come down as I always do and ride with the regulars, guys I know and know me and that trust one another. That doesn't mean just guys that ride like me, all levels that ride where they should and we all know to watch out for each other.

Most days we play liars poker for a while in the morning, grunt out where we are going to ride to hop on the bikes and go. No fucking groups, no safety talk, no rules review, just ride. We stop some where for lunch, talk about the ride what was good / bad and we learn from each other. We have all been through it we know the rules. If a noob hops in then fine if they are going to be around then they hop in the back for a while and move up after a stop, talk nice and after a while there is a new regular.

Some guys want to go to the track, cool
Some guys want to go out and race, cool
Some guys want to go do wheelies and that stuff, cool
We are not all the same and there are different levels of people. Guys that I couldn't keep up with if I wanted to go that fast. I have seen those riders get left in the dirt by someone we just ran into one day and turned out he had run AMA if either one of us tried to keep up with him we would have been down too. Thankfully we understand our limitations and progress up slowly.

All I know is that I love this past time whether I am running sweeper, middle of the pack, leading or just on a run out by myself. I believe that I know my limitations and ride within them. I also understand the legal implications of riding which is why I have moved way towards "The Pace" to prevent major tickets and to limit when I might get a ticket. Its not fool proof (obviously) but hopefully no more of those 18 pointers.

I am out next weekend but see ya the following.
Mark

[Brian428]

This isn't all to suprising unfortunately :( After Terra got his ticket KEN and I split off because of a couple reasons. First the groups were far to large! Instead of 4-5 bike groups it was more 10-16 in a pack, far too much difference in riding level to be safe. Second, the pace was pretty spirited for leaving so late, you could tell tickets were going to be handed out as soon as we left the conoco.

Hopefully this will curve people's enthusiasm a little bit and using a little bit more self-restraint will make these larger rides more enjoyable in the future. :)

That sucks Terra got a ticket, Hope it wasn't too close to Cripple Creek. I think it really doesn't matter what kind of bike he was on once you go beyond cost to buy and insure. It was an accident and glad to hear you're ok.

[pilot]

Ma
Well put.

[awilbur77]

just another reason i don't ride with groups.

Ditto.