Sad to see, but that is reality

[pilot]

Reality or not, it is my perception, and perhaps yours, that more and more experienced riders are "hanging up the helmet" aka, selling the bike and gear, cutting back on social rides, sticking only to the track, etc. And, more and more inexperienced riders are joining us on the roads. It appears that the gap is widening.

It is kinda like watching the Race of the Rockies. If the leader is way out in front--that's cool but, we tend to watch the battle for second or third--where the action is. Just like we are seeing more articles and postings about accidents between cagers and newer/unprotected riders. Not so much, about those that are taking the sport in a positive direction.

This perception has even come up in my recent discussions with all classes of racers.

What to do? I'm not sure. Keep learning and passing it on, I guess.

Your thoughts?

~P

[BlueDevil]

Natural progression I guess.... Its really always been that way... If I did the stuff now that I did when I 1st started riding on the street... Id be dead for sure... I admit I was one of "those guys" Not that I dont ride street... Im not hanging up my street riding... but Id say Im more of a commuter now than anything else... no more hanging at "the spot", cruisin, canyons and SUV dodging, etc........

Several reasons why this happens.... One realizes his own mortality, to many costly tickets, mmm possibly license taken away, and old fashion maturity.... As you get older you realize that to enjoy certain things you have ot take control of safety 1st, fun second.... Im sure Ive left many angles of your discussion out... but these are a few thoughts I have on the topic

Disclaimer: This was in no way to bash street riders.... There are equal amounts of bad riders and good riders on both streets and track.....

[pauliep]

Well, I sat out most the season sitting in stands (or at the computer) reading the reports of the all accidents and deaths that have occured on the public roads. I mean just feel safer on the track. I still consider myself a young rider with a year or so of riding, but I don't feel inexperienced. Traffic goes the same direction and there's no intersections either, or even as many distractions also. Although there are some here that have good arguements that I've gotten hurt more on the track this year but I'm happy to say I jumped up each time and walked away and even rode away. Should those same low sides happen on the public roads with traffic in both directions to include cars, I might not be around. Did I mention the cell phone use on public roads. It's scary to think about and to take to time to notice how many are on their phones out there. Just my two cents, can't wait to get my MRA license :)

[Sortarican]

Saw TT5.0's FS post and started thinking the same thing.
The FOG forum is gonna consist of three street riders, a couple trackers, and old women like Krissy and Terri.
(Ouch, I'm smoking a turd in Hell for that one.)

Ah well, all we street riders are SUV fodder anyway.
I think the track guys may be onto something.

But who wants to live forever?......Really I'm asking.....Show of hands?:hibye:

[Devaclis]

This entire topic irritates me.

Don't switch to track only riding because you are afraid of riding on the street. Do it because you love the track.

This board does a great job of reinforcing the need to ride safely. It also goes too far. It scares people out of riding. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DIE ON YOUR BIKE. Get out and fucking ride for christ's sake. I have not been on a bike since Monday and I am going nuts!! I'd give just about anything to ride right now. I pretty much live to ride. It was a dream of mine for over 30 years.

People die in the shower, in their cars, giving birth to babies, playing basketball. Maybe we can all sit at home and knit protective helmets for our kids with REALLY dull knitting needles and sit slightly warm tea while petting our declawed, neutered, rabies vaccinated cats.

[Xtremjeepn]

Funny you should post this.

I was big time into sport riding and a bit of racing in the early 90s. Been on a bike since 1979(as a kid learning).

It always goes in "spurts". I felt exactly as you describe in your post, but back in the 93-94. Lost interest, felt the street was getting too dangerous, no money for the track and simply got into other hobbies. Got tired of all the new kids on the block etc.

Now I'm back on a sportbike. :hump: Have zero intention on riding the way I used to. But I am back no the less and enjoying every minute of it. Mostly as a squid commuter on my liter bike :hibye:.

It really is just your perception on where you and your current friends are in the cycle.

[TT5.0]

I'm giving it up because it was getting to the point where I was dodging soccer moms on their cell phones daily. I'm pretty good at watching the cars around me, but it only takes one screw up to mess up your whole life, if not end it. I'm actually not as worried about myself, as I am for my wife. I'm giving up riding so that she will give up riding. Just the thought of her getting hurt on a bike, or even having to worry about it at all just isn't worth it in my book. If I get the bug again, I'll buy a track only bike. Much safer, and much more fun anyway.

[pauliep]

This entire topic irritates me.

Don't switch to track only riding because you are afraid of riding on the street. Do it because you love the track.



Don't get me wrong, Boy do I love riding the track! I keep seeing that damn commerical for kawi with the guy that has like 5 turns in his drive way. I have serious thoughts of what kind of investment that would entail. :crazy:

[konichd]

For me, its not the risk, its the enjoyment.

I don't enjoy communting, its not for me. I do it every now and then and it just doesn't get me excited about riding a motorcycle.

However, heading out to the MoCo makes my heart race and I look forward to every weekend. There's something about heading out early and hitting the twisties that reminds me of the pure joy of riding a motorcycle. Same for the track, I love track days and it gets me excited to head out to Miller, VIR, Pueblo, etc. it gives me the sensation I'm looking for when I ride my bike. :)

Now I have wood

[pauliep]

Now I have wood

Some reason I think it's not totally because of thinking about riding a motorcycle...:slap: lol

[Sortarican]

......Now I have wood

That ain't wood! That's a toothpick!

5292

[Bassil Duwaik]

the street is too costly for me. Seems like it's cheaper to fly down the track then it is to pick up a few traffic tickets. Even if I wreck at the track chances are that with so many experienced riders on the field I can get some constructive criticism. Not like wrecking on the street where all the witness have to say is "omg are you okay...you sob you were flying"

[pilot]

Very interesting posts and pretty much staying on track with the thoughts. It would be nice to hear from some more riders on this, too. Cruisers, some more racers (thanks DB for the input), how about the ladies and those who just ride to work each day?

As for me, I'd have to invest in a touring suit if I were to commute. It just is so much easier to hop in the truck, buckle up and drive away. I use to get the grief riding into work with all my gear on. I felt safe, but out of place.

The massive amount of time I have spent with MC training and speaking with and to many folks has also led to a change in my lifestyle. I now ride faster and what some would call harder, but with more finesse. Funny though, I now smoke and drink less, but with more expensive liquor. Go figure.

[Bueller]

I ride track, I ride streets, can't imagine not riding street, I just don't ride with many people (less after every attempt :().

[pilot]

Danged if it raining again, ha. (inside joke)

[Redflash3]

Basicly it's all a risk that each rider takes when he or she pulls out of the garage or takes it to the track. But honestly who consistantly thinks about the risk each moment their riding. Everything in life is a risk on some level and we all know that but who wants to allow it to take control of oneself. I also enjoy playing basketball and I've gotten several injuries and ackes from past and present some serious ones. But I keep playing because I enjoy it too much for several reasons. My wife sometimes says I should stop playing but injury and sports go hand in hand. Some might say that motorcycle riding is 10x worst and their probably right but what is the risk compared to the true enjoyment riding brings. That's what each of us must ask ourselves. Yes, there are deaths, injuries and accidents that we all hear about and it may even frighten you sometimes or put doubt in your mind about riding. But it's your choice if you allow those "fears" and "what if's" influence your decision to continue to get back on that bike. I've been riding for 4 years and should have started a long time ago but fear prevented me from doing so. I decided to put my fears away and at least try it and I love it to this day. I totalled my first bike and injuried myself and seriously doubted my riding desire after that. But it came down to the enjoyment riding gave me and how much I appreciated the comradeship that I see by riders. My hope is that each year the population of 2 wheel riders continue to increase. To bring awareness to the country that riding is as natural and as common as 4 wheels. That laws will be passed to protect those who utilize alternative moods of transportation. And that those who ignore the inevitable are held responsible (cell phone users while driving for example). Like most things in our society NUMBERS influences change.

I think is good to see new young riders.....we were all new young and old rides at one point in our riding careers....lets not forget that. The new riders just need mentors to teach them how to ride and how not to ride. Which is the major appeal and strong point of the CSC club.

[Nick_Ninja]

I'll see you on the road with the same guys I have been riding with for 30 years. I'll continue to ride untill pigs fly.

[konichd]

Looks like your riding days are over with Nick :(

[Nick_Ninja]

Looks like your riding days are over with Nick :(

I seriously doubt that :321:

[Sortarican]

Looks like your riding days are over with Nick :(

DK made me laugh without mentioning Kawi's.
Good One!

[Ricky]

I started riding BECAUSE of the gas prices. I only have to go 7 miles to work each way, and against traffic. The bike saves me so much money on gas, that it pays for itself. But after riding for a couple months, there's nothing more enjoyable than jumping on the bike and just riding. I sometimes wish my drive to work were a bit longer. It makes me want to get up in the morning for that crisp, cool, beautiful ride to work, like this morning.

Now, I'll admit that It's only been a couple months, but I've already got 2500 miles on my bike, and I bet I'll have another 2500 before I put it away for winter. I plan to upgrade the bike next year, now that I'm more comfortable, but honestly, I enjoy riding to work, saving gas, and I can even say I save the environment.

I don't have any kids, but if I were to die while riding my bike, I could say I died doing what I enjoy. It freaks me out every time I ride, because I swear I almost get hit once every day. The biggest question on my mind is always "what if..." what if that car pulled out right now? What if the light turned yellow right now? I do my best to pay attention, but I enjoy riding too much to give it up for safety reasons. I'm just as likely to slip in the shower and crack my head open.

I crashed a small plane on takeoff once, but I still fly...

[pilot]

I started riding BECAUSE of the gas prices. I only have to go 7 miles to work each way, and against traffic. The bike saves me so much money on gas, that it pays for itself. But after riding for a couple months, there's nothing more enjoyable than jumping on the bike and just riding. I sometimes wish my drive to work were a bit longer. It makes me want to get up in the morning for that crisp, cool, beautiful ride to work, like this morning.

Now, I'll admit that It's only been a couple months, but I've already got 2500 miles on my bike, and I bet I'll have another 2500 before I put it away for winter. I plan to upgrade the bike next year, now that I'm more comfortable, but honestly, I enjoy riding to work, saving gas, and I can even say I save the environment.

I don't have any kids, but if I were to die while riding my bike, I could say I died doing what I enjoy. It freaks me out every time I ride, because I swear I almost get hit once every day. The biggest question on my mind is always "what if..." what if that car pulled out right now? What if the light turned yellow right now? I do my best to pay attention, but I enjoy riding too much to give it up for safety reasons. I'm just as likely to slip in the shower and crack my head open.

I crashed a small plane on takeoff once, but I still fly...Don Gunn, at T3RG, teaches a pretty darn good class about street riding. It is mostly taken from the motor officer's course--as taught to the MC cops. A good portion of the course deals with how to handle traffic.

http://www.t3rg.com/Classes.html#Precision

Professional Rider Training
Taught by retired police motorcycle officer trainers Two days, 16 hours, $650
This is a demanding course designed by former police motorcycle patrol trainers to teach riders how to get the most from your motorcycle. You will learn many of the life saving maneuvers used by police officers such as evasive braking methods and traffic avoidance techniques. Add skills to your riding repertoire that are used by professional motorcycle patrol officers.

If you can’t turn around in a small area and look good doing it…you may be ready for this course.
If riding near other vehicles and motorcycles makes you nervous…you may be ready for this course.
If maneuvering in tight spots means losing control…you may be ready for this course. Never be intimidated in a parking lot again. .
If you are ready to get the best out of your motorcycling experience…you may be ready for this course…and it is the most fun you can have on a motorcycle, legally! You will learn precision exercises that will vastly improve your riding skills at both low and high speeds. After completing the riding sessions you will have dramatically improved your balance and coordination on a motorcycle. Your ability to ride on the street will vastly improve after being taught many of the high speed evasive maneuvers required of professionals. Your braking skills will be refined in the course. Every exercise you learn is critical in real life riding situations that include danger, from the pressure of highway traffic to the menace of drivers who ‘just don’t see motorcycles’ on the road.
You will leave with a much better understanding of your limits as a rider, so that you will be able to continue to practice the skills you need to improve upon for years to come. This course is ideal for riders who recognize the value of lifelong learning as a motorcycle enthusiast.
Prior to this session, you must be able to complete a figure 8 and make slow turns. It is recommended, but not necessary, that you have completed the Basic Rider Course. You must have a valid Motorcycle Endorsement on your driver’s license. The class is taught on training bikes.
Your riding will be evaluated prior to beginning the course. Instructor reserve the right to make all final decisions About who is accepted into the course.
Schedule
Part One: Riding evaluation on your motorcycle- 7am-9am. You must pass this pre-course evaluation before admittance to the class. If you pass this portion of the course, you will be allowed to continue. If you do not pass, you will not be allowed to participate in the course and you will be charged $150 for the evaluation report, which will outline the areas that you need to improve before taking the course.
Part Two: Day 1 riding exercises- 9:30am-6:00 (ish)pm
Part Three: Day 2 riding exercises and graduation- 7:00am-4:00pm
Location
Town Center at Aurora, 14200 E Alameda Ave, Aurora, 80012
Fee
$650, includes a $30 insurance fee

[pauliep]

$40.63/hr for some evasive maneuver instruction. Just driving in Denver county is almost the same and free should you not get in an accident,

[Slo]

$650.00 + $250.00 ....wow

[Devaclis]

Was this entire thread just an ad? Mn I need to get in on the action!

[tarded400]

My wife gets scared every time go out. She thinks the next time I wreck I'm going to die. She says that she has accepted the fact, but I hate it every time she says it. I have wrecked a decent number of times, and the past 2 times have been pretty bad- the first when a car pulled out from a stop sign and I t-boned her, and then the last time while in the canyons and I broke my ankle. People have commented that anybody in their right mind would quit what was causing all of this, but I don't think I can give it up. I didn't ride for 2 days, and then the third day when I got on jst to commute in a straight line, it was like equilibrium was re-established. It was awesome. I commute 15 miles one way to school every day, and the other alternative to my 60 mpg bike is my 15 mpg car.

[Bueller]

$650.00 + $250.00 ....wow
:shocked:

[Nick_Ninja]

Was this entire thread just an ad? Mn I need to get in on the action!

Yes ----- but you don't have wheels :cry:

[Jayock]

I guess for me it is kind of two-fold. I got the new 1000 to keep as a fun street bike and convert for an open supersport race bike next year. Well, the bug hit me to get it out and ended up getting it race ready this year. Now I have no street bikes and two race bikes. It is still stock enough that converting it back is a mere 1-2 hours away, but then I have to do it again before the next race, so I usually just end up driving. It will be back after the race season is over.

Also, I find that after progressing as a rider, I cannot (legally or safely) have as much fun on the street as I do at the track. And racing is a whole different level than track riding (more fun still). Until I have my millions, I just wont be able to keep a street bike without thinking "this could be a great modern vintage, heavyweight, lightweight etc bike." When I have enough money, Ill definitely have multiple race bikes and a street bike.

I also bring my puppy with me just about everywhere I go, and this is much easier in the truck than on a bike :)

I do miss riding though, even during the short breaks between races.

[DucWise]

Interesting topic... I'd like to share a different (but similar?) perspective. When I started riding street bikes, along with most of my friends at the time, there were no Riding Courses that we knew of. I learned to ride by... riding. A lot. I made a lot of stupid mistakes/decisions and usually paid for them the hard way... but I kept "getting back on" so to speak. When I finally realized the limitations of the street I turned to the track. But I always kept riding on the street... it just became two completely different types of riding. But I still enjoyed both.

When I recently moved back to CO I had a brand new realization about newer riders these days: They had ALL taken some sort of Safety Riding Course prior to getting their license! This was a complete shock to me since I had never taken one nor had I ever known anyone who had taken one (most just rode without a MC license for years and years :o). But, literally everyone I have met in CO thus far that has an MC endorsement has taken one of these courses. I think that is 1) Amazing and 2) Superb! I'm sure all of these new riders are learning things that took me years of learning... many time the hard way. Hell, they may even be learning stuff that I don't know after all these years in the saddle.

I guess my point is that it sure looks like new riders are getting off on the right foot these days. They have information and people to show them the way that was once only for the "daring" way back when. If the gap is widening between the experts and the newbies... it's just part of the natural order of things. The gap will shrink over time... then widen again. Whether you ride street, track, dirt, or some combination the thing to remember is just keep riding. After all, fear is the mindkiller ;)


--- Jack

[lovinCO]

...literally everyone I have met in CO thus far that has an MC endorsement has taken one of these courses. I think that is 1) Amazing and 2) Superb! I'm sure all of these new riders are learning things that took me years of learning...


Positive comments. I never thought about it, but it DOES seem like more new people I meet have taken safety courses/schools. Too bad you didn't get to say this on that Alice radio show, it's a nice perspective on sportbikes.

[Spongebutt]

I ride the street because it's fun, and easier to park than the F-250 (why don't Ford Trucks turn? Because they can't). I totally get the soccer mom on the cell phone, heck, on the way to my girlfriend's house today, I got cut off by a very hot one, oh well, at least she missed. Riding with friends is simply too fun not to do.

Racing on the track is huge fun, and also makes it much less difficult to "break the wrist" going from one place to the other. If you can, do both!

Primarily, if you don't enjoy it, don't do it. If you enjoy it, do it.

Cheers

[denverbusa]

When I got my first bike it was a VFR 1000 Interceptor. It was a lot of bike for a street noob and I got it to cut down my commute from Huntington Beach to Hollywood. A 3 hr commute in the Jeep down to 1.5 hours by lane splitting. I rode everywhere out there and would go on long trips but I never did get into the whole speed or hardcore canyon riding. I bought that bike because it looked cool and I just got tons of experience without really putting myself in danger, at least anymore than the minimum required to get that kind of experience at the time. Sold the bike and the jeep and the 65 conv. mustang:banghead: to settle down, buy a home and have a family. It is what was right for me at the time. 15 years later I got back into sportbikes and have never had so much fun. I was one of the noobs again but did my time and learned from a group of experienced riders here on the board that have moved away from the road or at least public rides. While I am not giving up on the street because the track just doesn't come often enough I do enjoy getting out with a group and going for a ride. I will not be joining in on any of the scheduled rides when numerous people show up that I have not ridden with before. Too often I have seen them show up for their first ride and try to show off and it just isnt pretty. I am not just talking about wrecks here. Stupid turns in front of cars, poor decisions when passing etc... I try to lead by example, but I now limit my group rides to smaller groups.
Today was a great example, 7 of us left, and only one rider that I had not ridden with before. We all took turns leading and everyone was riding within their experience level. There was no testosterone passing. When some riders were behind me I waved them by and let them lead, when they were going faster than I wanted to go I didn't have to keep up I just rode my speed and we all had a great day. No DRAMA. If I don't feel comfortable with the group I will either bail or ride sweeper.

I will continue to ride on the street but I no longer commute and do not even like driving across town to a friends house because of the variables.

So here is to the next good ride. May it always be the next ride.

[Nick_Ninja]

I'm a FOG and proud of it. I'm riding tomorrow and NOT inviting anyone else along. I'm selfish, conceded, and a general pain-in-the-ass to ride with. There --- that should have covered all the bases that seem to be of concern to the topic.

[crunch]

I might get flamed for this, but I think too many people buy bikes that are way over thier abilities and don't have the sense to ride within thier abilities. I am all about people having freedoms to buy whatever they want, but someone who has never ridden before and 18 years old can go out and buy a GSXR1000 because his dad has money. It is that person you will read about, not the guy who has been riding for 5 years and is still not sure if he needs more than his SV650 because he still has so much fun on it.

I love sport bikes, but I am gonna sell mine for a bike that I think will be more fun and for a change in riding styles. Having road raced in the past, I know how much fun it is, but I like riding too much to hold myself captive to the racetrack.

[Nick_Ninja]

I agree. I was told by characters years ago that I needed to put 25,000 miles on my XL500S prior to buying the Honda CBX. They were right. But I got away with 18,000 before I jumped into the horsepower pond.

BTW ---- Your sig line is hilarious


I'm drowning in the estrogen ocean.
Thank god for toys.

[FastFrenchy]

As far as new riders, I think that they should start on what ever feels comfortable as long as they have the proper training. Back in Europe you have to spend lots of time and money to get your DL. When you finally get your DL if you are under the age of 21 you have to ride something that has no more than 34 hp:banghead:. Once you have been insured for one year, you are free to ride as pleased. I think that it is a good system, and limits the 18 year old retards buying 1000 cc's and getting into accidents within 48 hours of purchase.

Otherwise I personaly could not do without riding canyons or track I see myself riding a sport bike until 85 years of age:). I thrive to improve my riding skills and can't wait to get back at Pueblo!

[Crashdaddy]

As for me, I'd have to invest in a touring suit if I were to commute. It just is so much easier to hop in the truck, buckle up and drive away. I use to get the grief riding into work with all my gear on. I felt safe, but out of place.

Sorry Pilot, I got confused when you started talking about having a job.

How long ago was that?

Sorry, could not resist.

[dillinger09]

i feel as though all my track riding has made me a better/safer rider on the streets. when i hit the twisties now, all i see are guardrails, gravel, oncoming traffic, etc. i will still go make a canyon run, but i do so with more control and a better knowledge of myself and my bike and i owe this all to my time spent on the track and the racing school i took back in Va.

i commute (10 mi. roundtrip:hump:) on my bike everyday.......through the streets of denver. this is after a year stint of no street riding whatsoever. i love riding way too much to restrict myself to track only again.

[salsashark]

Gonna have to agree w/ Dana on this one... It's a scientific fact that life kills 100% of its participants.

Hedge your bets and do what you want. I don't ride track because I don't find it fun to go around in circles. I ride to see new and different areas. Sitting on I-25 w/ a bike in the back of the truck doesn't sound like fun to me. On that same note, I completely understand the safety element of riding track. It's a simple matter of eliminating variables. However, I think we have all witnessed what can happen on a track (whether in first person or by proxy) and that alone proves that no one is immortal.

As for the buying a bike that is way over powered for the street or the rider... ummm well I have no comment on that, but I believe that people should not be told what they can and can not ride. Remember this long forgotten notion of personal responsibility and accountability? I could just as easily kill myself on a SV650 as I could on my ZX-14. Engine displacement does not equal a death certificate.

These threads contrasting the two are totally over rated. Ride what you want, where you want, when you want. Two wheels is just that... enjoy them. Whether your dragging a knee around turn seven or throwing saddle bags on for a multi-day ride, just go out and ride.

[voncon]

I can't resist - When I started racing back in the 80's our Hurricane 600's were at 75-80 hp and we had production classes, supersport classes and Superbike. Novices could not race any larger than a 750. If you wanted a race-bred machine like an RS250 or TZ... you had to apply and submit a race resume.

Now we have 18 year old new riders waltzing in to the dealer and financing a new 160 HP R1 or GSXR for their first bike! 600's now are making more power than than the 1000's of my prime. I'm a huge fan of the sport and it saddens me to see the industry implode itself. Inevitably over time - legislation / insurance / and other factors are going to drive the sport down if we don't begin to police oursleves.

Either the manufacturer has to offer a free performance riding class with purchase or the gov't will have to limit hp and cc's based on documented experience.

I wrote an article on this subject when the FI R1's came out and it wasn't very popular. :(

[salsashark]

Inevitably over time - legislation / insurance / and other factors are going to drive the sport down if we don't begin to police oursleves.

There's that whole "personal responsibility" thing again...

[Xtremjeepn]

Reality or not, it is my perception, and perhaps yours, that more and more experienced riders are "hanging up the helmet" aka, selling the bike and gear, cutting back on social rides, sticking only to the track, etc. And, more and more inexperienced riders are joining us on the roads. It appears that the gap is widening.

...........Your thoughts?

~P


I have put a bit more thought into this and here is another take.


I think "mid-level" riders are "hanging up the helmet" as you put it.


The "real" experienced riders are still riding on the streets. They just choose their battles(rides) better now. They may do any one of the following.

-Avoid group rides with random groups.
-Stick to riding only with guys they know and trust
-Commute, ride alone, enjoy weekend rides with friends and family.

Basicly what I'm saying is that they just don't get caught up in the noob group/social part of it and that is why you see very few of them. They ride on their own terms. They are all still out there, just not as visable as those guys jumping in the group rides, going to the track etc.


I can see that whole "rider life cycle" in my own riding. Noob.....group rides.....select trusted groups.....track only......bored.....cruiser.....old friends only.......new sport bike(LOVING my commute)...etc etc

[rforsythe]

Remember this long forgotten notion of personal responsibility and accountability? I could just as easily kill myself on a SV650 as I could on my ZX-14. Engine displacement does not equal a death certificate.

I agree with what you're saying, but there's also the point to be made that inexperienced riders are perhaps more impressionable to suggestion on what they can and can't handle, because they listen to anyone with an opinion on it rather than experience they don't yet have. There should also be some accountability for those who convince a new rider that they can control a bike with so much higher performance just as well as a smaller one. Experience trumps balls any day.


just go out and ride.

Amen to that!

[pilot]

Sorry Pilot, I got confused when you started talking about having a job.

How long ago was that?

Sorry, could not resist.Oh, that hurt.

[rforsythe]

I ride track, I ride streets, can't imagine not riding street, I just don't ride with many people (less after every attempt :().

Yep. Had an interesting conversation with Rybo on the way back from Nebraska this weekend about this, and how the stupidity we see in group rides makes us want to limit whether we ride in groups at all. We both came to the conclusion that noob rides are about as far as we want to go into those, beyond that just riding with people that we know have a history of not being stupid. We also equated it to shooting guns with/around other people, and there are some on this board I will never do that with again either.

I suppose it may seem bad that as one of the people who run this club, I don't even want to go on our group rides anymore unless it's a mellow noob ride where we set a limit on what people do. It's also something I (and some others) have felt is necessary because of what happens with some riders in groups. On the other hand, it also kind of speaks to the changes that maybe need to happen in group rides when some of the longest-time members of CSC won't touch them out of mortal fear.

[Devaclis]

^^ I like the idea of riding with buddies I know how to ride with. It is more comfortable. No surprises. I like the shooting analogy too.

[Sully]

This entire topic irritates me.

Don't switch to track only riding because you are afraid of riding on the street. Do it because you love the track.

This board does a great job of reinforcing the need to ride safely. It also goes too far. It scares people out of riding. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DIE ON YOUR BIKE. Get out and fucking ride for christ's sake. I have not been on a bike since Monday and I am going nuts!! I'd give just about anything to ride right now. I pretty much live to ride. It was a dream of mine for over 30 years.

People die in the shower, in their cars, giving birth to babies, playing basketball. Maybe we can all sit at home and knit protective helmets for our kids with REALLY dull knitting needles and sit slightly warm tea while petting our declawed, neutered, rabies vaccinated cats.

I'm afraid of Devaclis and his BIG YELLOW Honduuh... have you seen him wheelie that thing ? :slap:... :hump:

As much as I love riding the track and gaining amazing knowledge, I will still love riding on the street... and will continue to do so :drool:

[Devaclis]

IMO, riding on the track does not = gaining great street knowledge. Where are your mirrors? Are you aware of what is going on behind you? No turn signals or hand signals? Anyone running across the track to t-bone you? Are you in someones blind spot? No, it may help you become better able to HANDLE your bike, on the track. I just do not see how it makes you a better over all rider.

[Sully]

Riding on the street is a challenge... it tests your skills and abilities to maneuver around unexpected objects, etc. The track is obviously a controlled environment (and is also a challenge) where you can learn to better your skills... minus the people running into you, over you, rabbits, snakes, etc... :)

[Xtremjeepn]

The problem with track riding is that you are in a near "perfect" environment. Every aspect that can be controlled has been. While many learn things from it, there is much that is missed that you face on the street. The 1005 "what ifs".


Here is the great analogy for the day::shocked:........ready?


Riding a motorcycle is like having sex. You decide you like it but would like to take it to a new level. This new level can only be had by going to that "special environment" In the special environment you have to pay to play, but you can do just about anything you want. :leghump:(Whorehouse=Track)

You then decide that it is only fun at the track/whorehouse so you quit streetriding/normal sex!.............RIGHT?.......like we would give up sex.......haha!:crazy:

I enjoy my ride to work!

[dirkterrell]

No, it may help you become better able to HANDLE your bike, on the track. I just do not see how it makes you a better over all rider.

Track and street are complementary. The track enables you to focus on the mechanics of riding without the distractions of the street. It certainly has made me a better overall rider. Knowing how to control a bike in extreme, near -the-limit situations does help on the street. Controlling a bike is controlling a bike, whether on the street or the track.

Dirk

[Sully]

Riding a motorcycle is like having sex. You decide you like it but would like to take it to a new level. This new level can only be had by going to that "special environment" In the special environment you have to pay to play, but you can do just about anything you want. :leghump:(Whorehouse=Track)

You then decide that it is only fun at the track/whorehouse so you quit streetriding/normal sex!.............RIGHT?.......like we would give up sex.......haha!:crazy:

I enjoy my ride to work!

:shocked:...... :spit:... I'm going to keep my "special environment" - special ! LOL

[Bueller]

My special purpose needs a special environment

[Sully]

You run your special purpose all over the place... in and out and up and down ! :wtf: :D

[Bueller]

But I always, mostly, usually wear my gear

[Devaclis]

I enjoy the challenge of riding on the street. And I enjoy getting to practice every day.

With track riding, how many miles/times/days are you on the track in any given year?

I still think that for all practical purposes, that is where I spend most of my time. That is where I practice.

[dillinger09]

Track and street are complementary. The track enables you to focus on the mechanics of riding without the distractions of the street. It certainly has made me a better overall rider. Knowing how to control a bike in extreme, near -the-limit situations does help on the street. Controlling a bike is controlling a bike, whether on the street or the track.

Dirk

+1

[Bueller]

I am on the track as much as I am on the street, it is a different form of riding were the challenge is to push your riding/cornering skills to the max. Same as riding a dirt bike is a whole different set of challenges that has nothing to do with street riding but the skills developed can only help make you a more proficient rider. Now riding a motorcycle on one wheel has no useful purpose advancing street skills, but it sure is fun :lol:

[TFOGGuys]

Now, I'll admit that It's only been a couple months, but I've already got 2500 miles on my bike, and I bet I'll have another 2500 before I put it away for winter.

Don't put it away, ride, ride, ride..... Get some cold weather gear and ride. I commute 60 miles round trip daily, and winter before last (what a fu*ker LAST winter was!), I drove a cage a grand total of 11 days...yeah, it's a little chilly at times, but damn, it makes you feel alive like nothing else. I almost went friggin postal last year, between the short daylight and the not being able to ride. I even marked it on the calendar, for the day I was gonna go berserk. :sniper:

[TheStig]

Well Ill throw in how I feel about this topic as a pretty young guy (25) and a new rider. I have always loved...and what I really mean is obsessed about anything with a motor since I saw my dad wizzing around a track in his formula ford when I was 3. I had always wanted a bike, but it was just out of reach for me financially. Then this year my sister went out and bought a Harley Nightster and was riding alone alot. So even though im broke as a joke I took the plunge. I have done no track driving on the bike (yet...). I have learned a lot already riding on the street. I am constantly scanning traffic, intersections, etc. All in an effort to improve my awarness and skills on the street. I am dying to get out on the track though as I think it can really help me learn some good skills to use anytime I am on the bike. I think if I start racing, it will probably cause me to ride less on the street but only because I ride mostly on the weekends. I road race cars and have learned many skills to use on the street from that so I really think they compliment eachother. So far I just love riding and probably always will :)

You wont see me riding this winter though, I have no money for winter gear so if I did it would be in my snowboard gear haha.

[tarded400]

Nothin wrong with snowboarding gear if thats what ya got- my wife rode to denver today at 6 AM in her snowboarding pants and gloves. Said my stuff wouldn't fit her.

[HogGlider]

I feel a bit out of place here, but I hope none of you mind. I am not a sport bike rider, but if I wasn't such a road trip junky, I would have bought a sport bike and not my Dyna. I used to go to the AMA Superbike races back in Minnesota when I lived there (BIR Raceway in Brainerd), and I still find myself watching some of you guys cut through the corners when I am out on my rides to wherever, and it makes me wish I had one, but the Dyna has been good to me, so with that said, I don't want you all to take this as a biased opinion.
:guinness:




I can see where the concerns come from with some riders just getting away from it all now. I have wondered this same thing myself, and truth be told it's because of a couple things already mentioned.

The first one that I have to hit on is this;

I might get flamed for this, but I think too many people buy bikes that are way over thier abilities and don't have the sense to ride within thier abilities.

I have seen a lot of new riders who just want to buy a bike, but not just any bike. They all seem to want a sport bike. Why? Maybe some of you others may agree with me or not, but the thing that brings all these new riders to the sport bike is the hype that surrounds this specific type of machine. Sport bikers are "cool" they all get the babes (c'mon, we all get the lovin if you ride two wheels lol), and the fact that the sport bike is the "ultimate street machine" (which they are). I whole heartedly agree with the "buy what you want" mentality, like hell if I would let somebody tell me that I had to buy a Sportster and not my Dyna. The responsibility is on the buyer, not the seller of the machine. The rider needs to employ some restraint, some kind of concept of the machines abilities, and common sense, but many fail to.

The problem I (maybe some others), see here is that people buy into the hype of having a sport bike, and not what they can safely control. Like mentioned in the above qoute, the majority of these riders just go out to buy the biggest, baddest bike they can buy and go show it off. They usually won't take the time to learn how to properly handle the machine, let alone the simple respect for it. When you put an unexperienced rider on a combination such as this, its detrimental to not only themselves, but other riders around them, for example;

I will not be joining in on any of the scheduled rides when numerous people show up that I have not ridden with before. Too often I have seen them show up for their first ride and try to show off and it just isnt pretty. I am not just talking about wrecks here. Stupid turns in front of cars, poor decisions when passing etc...

I see this in group rides I have been on, so this isn't just in the sport bike community by any means, more common yes, but definitely not isolated to one aspect of the riding community. Things like this are exactly what will push riders away. The above quoted rider is a good example, he hasn't let it push him away entirely, but as he has said, he is likely not taking part in larger group rides, which nobody can blame him for that decision. Riding is clearly going to have some inherent dangers associated with it, we all know that otherwise we would all be driving cages 24/7. Those of you who take it to the track are looking to find the safest possible way to enjoy riding your machines, and at the same time pushing the limits of your skills and ultimately becoming a better rider for the street. I admire what you all do, and how well some of you handle these machines.

However, that "take it to the track" mentality doesn't exist with every rider on the roads today. I can usually come across a minimum of 3-5 riders each weekend I ride (and that is basically every weekend), that ride the streets as though it was the track. Some guys just blast down the road as fast as possible, dodging oncoming traffic, cutting cars (and other bikers) off, basically just blatant disregard for the safety of not only themselves, but others also. This really bothered me also;

the street is too costly for me. Seems like it's cheaper to fly down the track then it is to pick up a few traffic tickets. Even if I wreck at the track chances are that with so many experienced riders on the field I can get some constructive criticism. Not like wrecking on the street where all the witness have to say is "omg are you okay...you sob you were flying"
I know we all get that wild itch to be a little crazy once in a while, I will admit I have done this too, so I am not perfect by any means. The concept behind this rider's reasoning to go to the track just seems wrong to me (no disrespect Bassil, just a good example). Instead of going to the track to enjoy the ride, and pushing one's limits, they go to avoid the traffic tickets, the concerned motorist whose life you also endangered by riding irresponsibly on public streets. The point is that everybody needs to use common sense and reason if you are going to get wild on the streets. Is it really necessary to blow down the highway with the traffic at 100+ mph? How about dodging in and out of traffic to save a few minutes of your time? Probably not, but that's what the track is for, or some back country road with little to no traffic (which is a bitch to find out here I know).

The real problem is that generally it is a group of riders that behaves this way, either in their own group, or amongst other riders in a larger group. This not only pushes riders away from the immediate riding group (as we heard from above), but also other riders on the road. I know I am not the only one who loves hitting the twisties up through the foothills, but some riders don't get to fully enjoy these rodes because they avoid them due to such riders that I mentioned above.

No, I am not point fingers, or placing blame solely on the sport bike community for this happening. The entire motorcycle community, in my opinion, is responsible for this behavior. If we want to see a change in the trend that is forthcoming (ie new riders doing dumb crap, long time riders leaving groups etc...), then it is up to each and every one of us to lead by example. Set standards, rules, guidelines, or w/e for group rides and stick to them. If people in your group are getting a little more wild then they need to on the streets, educate them, or point them to the nearest track/empty parking lot.The streets are already dangerous enough and there is absolutely no need for making it any worse, we are all out here to enjoy the ride, and make it to another day of doing so.

[pilot]

Man, if I had a nickel, maybe a dime, for every time I saw posters from here riding past a "previously" mentioned speed or doing something a bit less than the reasonable norm, say passing with flair, etc., then, I could afford to buy a round of coffees (small) at the MoCo. Of course, I'd need to chip in for at least one cup myself.

On another note, the California Bike Week/Love Ride, is going well. Lots of standing on the feet selling bike stuff. But the cast of Harley riding characters are more than entertaining. And then there are the demo girls, but that is another story. Who is this woman in my hotel room???

[FZRguy]

The risk is part of the appeal. Sounds crazy but you all know what I mean. I ride dirt, street, track, and commute to work via bicycle. I’m a two-wheel junkie and neither inattentive cagers, weather, gloom of night, or even Ninja attack rabbits will keep me from riding. It's what makes me, me…it’s what makes me feel alive!

[-n8-]

It is risk all of us take, isn't it. I don't think riding would be as fun without the risk... Just me maybe.

Every time I ride (daily rider, no car) I ask myself if I am willing to accept anything that could happen to me, as I am sure the rest of you guys do.

When the reward no longer outweighs the risk, time to hang up the gear, sell the bike and buy yourself a nice side by side ATV.

Until then, pin it.

[gsxrguy5]

It's the natural progession of a rider perhaps.
I think that as you become a more competent rider, you want to try new things to challenge yourself and there is only so much you can do/try on the street safely. It's just so much easier to explore the limits of your bikes and yourself in the safe(er) confines of a track then a blind corner in a canyon. I assure you, if the experienced riders are leaving the street, it's probably more for their safety and experience.

[ZiaThunder]

It all comes down to how much risk are you willing to accept? What means more to you? For me I just luv to be on a bike, commuting to/from work, road trips, group rides to where ever and back, camping, on the track or coaching MSF classes. In the 2.5 years that I've been riding I've logged about 40,000 miles on my bikes.

I think the two things that have helped my riding the most is spending time on the track and coaching the MSF classes.

The time on the track has taught me how to ride the corners and not panic.... The leading cause of single vehicle (motorcycle) wreaks is the riders inablity to handle the bike in corners. No it doesn't help you deal with some of the road hazzards you are likely to come across, but can help with hazzard avoidance. It doesn't teach how to handle the bad drivers, but if you don't have to think about how to make the bike move it gives you more attention to focus on all of those cagers who are out to kill you. And, yes, that is how I view traffic. I assume they are all out to kill me and I ride accordingly.

Coaching has made me more aware of my basic skills, almost any fool can ride fast in a straight line, but it takes some skill to corner or manuver the bike in small/tight areas.

[CBRSue]

Oh, how I miss my teen years and pre-kid days when I enjoyed the thrill of street and dirt bike riding with little fear of the risks involved! With getting older and becoming aware of my own mortality and with adding the responsibility of parenting, I guess I could give up riding (and living for that matter) to "stay safe." But, how boring would that be? Instead, if there are risks involved, I do my best to minimize those risks... with skiing, the days of black double-diamond runs are over, yet I can still enjoy the sport (OK, I admit it, I mainly avoid the expert runs now due to my lack of strength and endurance these days! Hee, hee!)... and when riding motorcycles, I always wear a helmet, boots and gloves... and now I get to minimize the risks even further with the new leathers! :)

[pilot]

Oh, how I miss my teen years and pre-kid days when I enjoyed the thrill of street and dirt bike riding with little fear of the risks involved! With getting older and becoming aware of my own mortality and with adding the responsibility of parenting, I guess I could give up riding (and living for that matter) to "stay safe." But, how boring would that be? Instead, if there are risks involved, I do my best to minimize those risks... with skiing, the days of black double-diamond runs are over, yet I can still enjoy the sport (OK, I admit it, I mainly avoid the expert runs now due to my lack of strength and endurance these days! Hee, hee!)... and when riding motorcycles, I always wear a helmet, boots and gloves... and now I get to minimize the risks even further with the new leathers! :):up:

And when it comes to dealing with "fear", I recommend Susan Jeffers', Ph.D., book, "Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway." In it one can see right away how easily we fall in to the trap of fear and what its sources are.

[arata954]

i agree with hog glider and with most everyone as well. my first bike was an 01 f4i, and that was more than enough for me. i about flew off when i finally redlined it after it was broke in. scared the shit out of me. i never lost respect for that machine, and was starting to get comfortable (NOT COMPLACENT) with it. i knew that i would want a 1k so i could keep up off the line with the literbikes. i have my 954 and think that will do me for years to come. i know that i could match the literbikes with more experience on the 600, but i wanted something i would be happy with for long years.

i also feel that a FIRST TIME rider not someone's age that should be considered for the level of bike choice. an 18 year old is just as new as a 30-40 year old who never opperated one before (GRANTED 30-40 year old would be more mature). i feel that the street is the ultimate test for the man and machine. the soccer mom on the cell phone is the best reaction tester. the street teaches and reminds you to stay more alert than on the track i think. (YES I ADMIT I HAVE NEVER ROAD TRACK BEFORE) but like previously stated, traffic all goes one way, and its controlled conditions. the street NEVER is.

one thing for sure, i will NEVER give up my bike, and never stop riding street. i would love to get into racing. even just a weekend track day thing, but i love seeing the world and love it on my crotch rocket :)

as for the going to die quicker on the street part.. im in iraq, 3rd time. i die when i die. doesnt matter how or why, just when. plus my kids will have 400k and be set for life. and no, they arent getting it right off. 100k invested, and 300k into a trust fund to be dolled out in increments. they dont get the full amount till 25-26 cause i know how stupid i was with moneny and credit :(

[clustermagnet]

Gents, was day dreaming in the shower this morning... as usual...

Funny thing is... topic is almost identical...

Street riding is identical to riding in the pits, being constantly spooked by parked cars.

[arata954]

Gents, was day dreaming in the shower this morning... as usual...

:banghead::banghead::drink::drink:GET IT OUT OF MY HEAD!!! GET IT OUT!!! OH THE PAINFULL IMAGE!!!!

hheheh j/k

[clustermagnet]

:banghead::banghead::drink::drink:GET IT OUT OF MY HEAD!!! GET IT OUT!!! OH THE PAINFULL IMAGE!!!!

hheheh j/k

:) you're welcome

[FZRguy]

Fear is kinda strong…if you’re scared, you’re gonna get hurt. We all know the risks and take steps to minimize them. And honda954rr, the MX track is the real test of man and machine IMO.

[arata954]

fzrguy, i will agree that motocross is a major test of ability.. but i was thinking mainly street as most of us here ride street bikes and not mx bikes., but yes you have a valid observation