Electrical/FI problems

[counterfit zx10r]

My 04 zx10r started having a pretty interesting problem and so far I haven't been able to figure it out. It'll die randomly as I'm riding, no speific conditions, just feels like it ran out of gas and will throw a different fuel injector code each time. If I flip the kill switch off and back on, it'll start right back up and usually runs ok after that untill this morning on my way to work. The only time it won't die is when it's sitting still at idle. I've replaced the relay box and the fuel pump. Any one have any ideas?

[konichd]

Do you have a PCIII on it? My ZX-10 had a hot-start problem and I came to find out the map on my Power Commander was the cause.

Also take the computer and battery out and re-install.

You might want to post this up on the ZX-10 forums www.zx-10r.net (http://www.zx-10r.net) since your not going to get any real help off this forum. :)

[hcr25]

this year on my gsxr 600 race bike i had a tip over switch go bad. i would be straight up and down and the bike would die. turn the key of and back on the bike would start and run. in the pits we started the bike and flicked the tip over switch with our finger and the bike would die. i replaced the switch and no more problem.
mike

[konichd]

There is no tipover switch in a Kawi :)

[Bassil Duwaik]

it's just reading to you different injector codes?

[counterfit zx10r]

When it dies it'll throw the EFI light and when i pull the code, it's always throwing a different injector code, first it was the #4 injector and then the #2, never the same one twice in a row.

[counterfit zx10r]

There is no tipover switch in a Kawi :)

There is a vehicle down sensor, it's bolted to the bracket the fuel tank and rider seat mounts to.

[konichd]

^^werd but it doesn't work like a tip-overswitch. Make sure the bolts are tight and put some loctite on them. If they are loose this could be your problem if the sensor is getting a lot of vibration.

Looks like posted up on the zx-10 forums so it shouldn't be long now. :)

http://www.zx-10r.net/forum/showthread.php?t=45461

[hcr25]

There is no tipover switch in a Kawi :)

Ya ok, mabye im not an expert. its called a VEHICLE-DOWN sensor.
might want to read a service manual.
here is the Kawasaki part number for the part the bike does not have
21176-0026
mike

[hcr25]

^^werd but it doesn't work like a tip-overswitch

Looks like posted up on the zx-10 forums so it shouldn't be long now. :)

http://www.zx-10r.net/forum/showthread.php?t=45461
this is out of the zx 10 service manual. how is it different then a tip over switch? the bike falls over, the bike shuts off

[konichd]

No shit really? Its totally different than a "tip-overswitch" and works differently. I doubt its his problem unless the bolts are loose.

Perhaps your the one that should read the manual? :dunno:

[hcr25]

how is it different? just asking.

[konichd]

Its a Kawi thing you wouldn't understand Mike :)

[Bassil Duwaik]

I don't think it's a mechanical problem for what that's worth. Most likely an electrical issue. That's pretty much the extent of my knowledge. You can go to bikebandit.com and look at the wiring schematics and see if there is something you over looked. Does anyone know if bikes come with knock sensors? oh yeah, on another note, I don't think it's the tip over switch that's giving stalling you. Wouldn't make sense for the code to read just one injector as failing if it was the tip over sensor. I'd think if it was the tip over sensor then it woudl shut the fuel pump itself and perhaps read all injectors as failing.

[konichd]

I don't think it's a mechanical problem for what that's worth. Most likely an electrical issue. That's pretty much the extent of my knowledge. You can go to bikebandit.com and look at the wiring schematics and see if there is something you over looked. Does anyone know if bikes come with knock sensors? oh yeah, on another note, I don't think it's the tip over switch that's giving stalling you. Wouldn't make sense for the code to read just one injector as failing if it was the tip over sensor. I'd think if it was the tip over sensor then it woudl shut the fuel pump itself and perhaps read all injectors as failing.

Bingo Bassil

[counterfit zx10r]

I did find some melted wires on the right side of the motor, looks like 1 is going to the voltage regulator and i'm trying to find a wiring diag. to find where the other one's going.

[The GECCO]

No shit really? Its totally different than a "tip-overswitch" and works differently. I doubt its his problem unless the bolts are loose.

Perhaps your the one that should read the manual? :dunno:

The "tip-over" switch and "vehicle down" switch perform the same function and are there for the same reason. The internal intricacies of exactly how they work may be a bit different from one brand to the other, but your statement above is blatantly wrong.

On either bike this switch could easily be the source of an intermittent ignition problem. So much so that many racers intentionally disable such switches after one caused a bad accident at Daytona several years ago.

Feel free to say we're wrong, but be prepared to back it up.

[The GECCO]

I did find some melted wires on the right side of the motor, looks like 1 is going to the voltage regulator and i'm trying to find a wiring diag. to find where the other one's going.

I doubt it really matters what they go to, if they are melted to the point that the conductor is showing I would bet you've found the problem. Wrap them in good electrical tape and do what you can to keep them away from whatever it is that melted them in the first place :up:

[counterfit zx10r]

2 of the wires are actually melted all the way through but looks like 1 is comming off the voltage regulator, the ones that melted go between the regulator and the alternator and has a split off and goes to the relay box and what looks like maybe the Main ECU relay... hard to tell with the picture i have

No, take that back, looks like the headlight relay, still not really seeing how any of this would make the bike die as i'm riding and throw an injector code

[konichd]

The "tip-over" switch and "vehicle down" switch perform the same function and are there for the same reason. The internal intricacies of exactly how they work may be a bit different from one brand to the other, but your statement above is blatantly wrong.

On either bike this switch could easily be the source of an intermittent ignition problem. So much so that many racers intentionally disable such switches after one caused a bad accident at Daytona several years ago.

Feel free to say we're wrong, but be prepared to back it up.

Your right Glenn, I'm just giving Mike a little shit because he rides a Suzuki. Inherently they do the same thing but function differently from manufacturer to manufacturer. I just doubt this is Conterfit's problem and I'm just trying to help him with out.

[The GECCO]

2 of the wires are actually melted all the way through but looks like 1 is comming off the voltage regulator, the ones that melted go between the regulator and the alternator and has a split off and goes to the relay box and what looks like maybe the Main ECU relay... hard to tell with the picture i have

No, take that back, looks like the headlight relay, still not really seeing how any of this would make the bike die as i'm riding and throw an injector code

If the wire between the alternator and the rectifier is intermittently grounding out it's probably causing wild voltage fluctuations in the entire system and it might be throwing injector codes because the injectors are either

A) the first victim of that havoc, or
B) the computers best guess about what the problem is

Either way, on the very slim chance that the melted wires AREN'T your problem, that's no reason to not fix them, right?

[counterfit zx10r]

I am going to fix them, but it's kinda odd that they melted in the first place, and it wasn't from an extrenal heat source.

[The GECCO]

Dunno....it could be that there was a small nick/defect/crack in the insulation that allowed the shorting to occur and the shorting generated the heat that melted the insulation. IE, the melting is another symptom (in addition to the stalling) of the shorting, not the original cause.

[counterfit zx10r]

Well, I fixed the wires, was riding around some lastnight and it felt fine so i took it to work today, made it there and home just fine, then as I take it out to go to dinner, it decides to die again... so there must be some other problem somewhere...


I HATE ELECTRICAL PROBLEMS:banghead:

[The GECCO]

OK, check both battery terminal connections to make sure that they are snug. There should also be a 30A main fuse somewhere close to the battery wired into the positive battery cable. Check any connections there. Then take the tank off and look for any electrical "plug" connectors anywhere. Take each connector apart and look at the "male" ends for any signs of arcing or corrosion. Spray a bit of electrical contact cleaner or TV tuner cleaner on each one before reassembly. If you find a connector that shows signs of arcing (hot spots on the male end or any sign of heat deformity in the connector body) clean up the male terminals really well and do whatever you can to make the female part of the connector get a better "grip" on the male part.