Frame Sliders: LSL's or Shoguns?

[MetaLord 9]

Alright, I need an opinion. Clearly I need to throw some sliders on my '07 ZX-6R instead of tempting fate. I can get a Shogun crash kit (sliders - cut, bar ends, & swing arm spools) for about $90. OR I'm work'n out a deal w/my dealer where I get a pair of LSL sliders at cost which is about $100 total for the slider & pucks, but no bar ends or swing arm spools. Does anyone have LSL's or Shoguns? What do you think about 'em & what would you do in the situation. Thanks for the advice in advance!

[Bueller]

Shogun is crap. I like vortex with the replaceable pucks, no experience with LSL but same principle.

[konichd]

LSL are top-of-the-line when it comes to sliders. I have them on both my ZX-10R and ZX6R and won't use anything else. Vortex and Shogun's are crap and I wouldn't take them if their free. LSL's are also a lower profile and won't "dig" causing more damage to your bike. Terra crashed at Miller last year 100+ MPH and besides a little rash the bike was fine.

LSL FTW! :)

[konichd]

Here is what happen's to Vortex sliders in a 20 MPH crash :( over $2,000 in damage. Shogun's are even worse

[Bueller]

Well with that endorsement how can anyone argue :roll:

Frame sliders are not a guarantee of anything, believe me any slider will do that given the right conditions, even your LSL's. I have personally crashed twice on Vortex sliders and went back to the pits and replaced the puck and was done.

[konichd]

I thought we were friends Dave :(

It's just my opinion from personal experience ;)

[Bueller]

I just like to argue with your opinionated opinions. :scream1: :)

[Devaclis]

Here is what happen's to Vortex sliders in a 20 MPH crash :( over $2,000 in damage. Shogun's are even worse

Had that bike not been pinned under a guardrail there would not have been that much damage. The sliders would not have prevented ANY of that. Of course, that is my opinion so you must take it as the gospel truth.

[Fly boy]

I layed mine down doing 30ish at IMI. Shoguns held up just fine for me. Ebay'd them for $35, best money spent.

[konichd]

Had that bike not been pinned under a guardrail there would not have been that much damage. The sliders would not have prevented ANY of that. Of course, that is my opinion so you must take it as the gospel truth.

The guardrail hit it on the left, not the right :)

GOD HAS SPOKEN

[rybo]

Woodcraft makes excellent sliders with replaceable pucks as well. I've personally crash tested them twice now with good results, and neither of these were "small" crashes. The damage had they not been there would have been much worse. No bent metal on the sliders, just a puck replace and good to go. (well at least for the sliders.)

s

[The_Jackel]

Yes we have never had any issues with Shogun sliders not holding up. Check out their website they have a selection of some cool crash photos as well.

[Slo]

I have the Vortex sliders, lowsided at IMI at about 40 and they held up fine, not a scratch on the side fairing and the slider itself held up very well.

But it all depends on how the bike goes down and what it will hit along the way. In the several states I have lived, there are usually very few people that actually like shoguns......

[jimwallace]

i also have shogun sliders and they work just fine and at the cost after wrecking you buy another pair and the cost is no different than replacement pucks plus you will have an extra one for the next time. as long as you have SOMETHING its a good thing.

[Richard]

Here is what happen's to Vortex sliders in a 20 MPH crash :( over $2,000 in damage. Shogun's are even worse

mine werent vortex but the same 2 piece design as them and the same thing happened at 45 50ish just bent and was hard to get out. but it did still do its purpose in saving the frame i guess.

[Terra]

I have put both LSL (ZX-10R) and Shogun (ZX-6R) to the test with both high speed and low speed crashes...

As David said, I crashed my ZX-10R at Miller last year in the last turn before the long straight and lost it in a low side as I was black striping it (spooling) to straighten the trajectory and get an earlier drive... Everyone that saw the crash damage were impressed by how well the Spiegler/LSL's worked as they are designed to help reduce a low-sided bike from rotating and/or catching - both of which can cause a sliding bike to tumble... My bike hit the pavement, and I know for fact it did no rotate at all nor did it catch when it hit the berm, grass, and finally gravel as I had a ground level view of the bike since I was only about 5 feet away from it as we were both sliding and waxing the Miller tarmac... The repair was simple, put on a new puck using the existing hardware...

The damage to the ZX-10R was:
Fairing rash, mostly from when it hit the gravel... I am still using the same fairing (except for the lower)
Ground a hole into the generator cover as I wasn't using reinforced race engine coversNow fast forward to VIR this year where I was on my ZX-6R using Shogun sliders because LSL didn't have the 2007 model ready yet... :(

I crashed in Turn #1, once again on the drive out, but this time I wasn't going nowhere near as fast as I was at Miller... I would estimate that at the time of the low side, I wasn't doing more than 50 to 60MPH as I had just started the drive out of the apex...

Once again, I had a ground level view of the bike and this time it wasn't pretty at all... The bike not only rotated, but it caught the berm and caused a violent flip (launched) which resulted in it tumbling at least 3 times...

The damage to the ZX-6R was:
Broken handlebar
Broken brake lever
Bent clutch lever
Broken rear tail plastics
Broken windshield
Trashed race plastic where the Shogun mounting hardware rotated on its offset axis
Trashed Shogun slider hardware, bolt and mount
Snapped off the rear swingarm spool mount, which had to be welded back onI honestly believe that if I had the LSL sliders on, that the above damage would not have occurred or vastly minimized... It was pretty much the same crash I had at Miller, but at a much slower speed...

Now with that said, there is a chance that the higher speed low side at Miller allowed it to not catch the berm... However, I have looked at the design of both, and the Shoguns grind down pretty quick to where the tapered end becomes a flat round cylinder where it would be **easy** for it to hook a berm edge... The LSL's taper is pretty much the strength of its whole design, and I ground down the LSL pretty impressively... Looking at it after the fact there was plenty of taper left... This promotes the ability for it to just glide up and over the berm edge as well as gliding over grass/dirt/gravel instead of digging in like the Shoguns did...

I also had another slow speed (~40MPH) crash at IMI, on the left side, and once again its mounting hardware was trashed...

Anyhow, that is my first hand crash tested review of both products, and at this point I am sold on the engineering design and performance of the LSL sliders... That is not to say that LSL's will protect your bike from tumbling, but I would say that LSL's will reduce the propensity for it to tumble and/or rotate over the competing long cylindrical sliders that are available...

--
Terra

[konichd]

^^^^ There's my boy! :)

[~Barn~]

I liked the way my Woodcraft sliders looked, and they came highly recommended for a variety of reasons.

Unfortunately, I never had an opportunity to see them perform, prior to sellin.... err.. Nevermind this last part.

[MetaLord 9]

Thanks for all the advice! It's now just an issue of price in my head.

[tarded400]

I love the LSLs, put them on my 929 right before I sold it to some stupid squid who put a gigantic crash cage on it. I like them for several reasons- look. Not the typical long tube extending from the bike, ruining the stream lined body. Cost. I figure you get what you pay for and they were damn expensive. Function. I figure with the long cylinders sticking out, especially when they're typically attached to the engine bolts, that they would provide a huge torque on the mounting hole, possibly snap off and not function at all. The LSLs would spread the impact out while not providing torque on the hole. They say that the plastic piece that comes out of the center and extends backwards will provide drag on the rear of the hole, keeping the bike facing forward instead of spinning.

[Spiderman]

I don't know LSL, but have Intuitive on my streetbike, and Converted my racebike from Intuitive to Woodcraft this year. The Woodcraft, or replaceable puck design, is great because there's more slider surface to absorb the abrasion, and more metal to resist bending. I've crashed Intuitives, and while they minimize the damage to the bike, they tend to bend (because they lack the mas of a solid chunk of delrin, and the hollow "tube" style is longer, and therefore less rigid, leading to bending of the slider, and sometimes the bolt,which makes removal of the bolt more difficult when you go to replace it).

My experience with Shoguns is dismal. I bought them cuz they were cheap. :banghead: Although they're similar in style to the Intuitive, they don't (or at least they didn't) have the metal sleeve insert around the bolt where it passes through the delrin. I highsided with them, and the slider snapped clean off the bolt! The Intuitives would've faired better because they have the metal sleeve around the bolt, but there's no doubt in my mind that the Woodcraft would've held up brilliantly.

I've also crashed the Woodcrafts, and they've held up remarkably well!

Like Bueller said, frame sliders don't garantee anything, but, you get what you pay for. Spending more money MAY mean the difference between plastics that are merely scratched vs. ground through or cracked & broken.

:idea: Don't crash! :lol:

[pilot]

No experience with sliders, but experience with crashing. For the money, and this only applies to my beat up ZZR, fiberglass repairs were much less expensive than any slider on the market. As several of you know, I HS'd on Gore pass, blah, yada, ya. After the crash I had 13 (lucky number) cracks through out my nose gear and lowers. Not to mention plenty of scratches. The Givi bags on the rear kept that portion of the bike of the ground and had no mechanical damage--thanks Givi. A bit of clear strapping tape to temp things together and I was back on the road. The following weekend I pulled the plastics off (which one should do after a crash to check for this and that anyway) and with $25 worth of fiberglass cloth and 60 minute- 2 part epoxy I was able to correct all the damage to stronger than new. Still need the bodywork and painting done.

Plastics eat up the impact before the frame starts taking it. Not much, but some I would suppose.

Having said that, I wouldn't mind having a decent set of sliders. Or a decent bike for that matter, ha.

[*GSXR~SNAIL*]

Motovation makes a damn good slider as well....

http://www.motovationusa.com/index_MVdiff.htm

http://www.motovationusa.com/mvstore/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=139