Guy Tazered For Not Signing Ticket

[The Black Knight]

http://www.break.com/index/dude-tazered-for-not-signing-ticket.html

I'm going to see what everyone else's thoughts are on this one, before I comment. I will say looked to be a little bit much, but you make the call.

[Clovis]

The cop is both out of line and out of control. I would have the officer's job not to mention a lawsuit.

[Nick_Ninja]

It's Vernal Utah. Behind the Zion Curtain. What do you expect. :roll:

[The Black Knight]

The cop is both out of line and out of control. I would have the officer's job not to mention a lawsuit.

I'm sure there will be an impending lawsuit. With this out on the internet, you know this guys lawyer(s) have already seen it. I would say he's got a great case. Cop would never say how fast he was actually going.

I also didn't know that you would be arrested if you didn't sign the ticket. I've always just signed the ticket and gone to court to either beat it or get it reduced.



It's Vernal Utah. Behind the Zion Curtain. What do you expect. :roll:

Only thing I thought was a little messed up, was the other cop that showed up. IF the first officer was a State Patrol, then the other one came later was either Sheriff or local Cop. So even if other cop saw fault, I would think he's out ranked by HP. I know State Troopers can give you a ticket anywhere and on any street, even if they are in town. I see them sitting off of Stetson Hills on the street I take to my house all the time, and they aren't anywhere near a State Hwy.

[t_jolt]

I can tell first hand that not signing a ticket will NOT get you put in the back of a car.

I never sign tickets. Its says its not admission of guilt, but then how come the first step you take into the DA's office their reducing it for you?

I tell cops i will only sign it, if it shows the correct speed i know i was going. I always make sure that speed is 9 above the limit (wink, wink) And the cops get pissy, but if you stand your ground and let them know the correct speed you where going. they will give in or just hand you the ticket. If its not signed when you go to court, the DA's always get mad but if you stand your ground once again they will drop the fines and fees.

Tyrel

[The Black Knight]

I can tell first hand that not signing a ticket will NOT get you put in the back of a car.

I never sign tickets. Its says its not admission of guilt, but then how come the first step you take into the DA's office their reducing it for you?

I tell cops i will only sign it, if it shows the correct speed i know i was going. I always make sure that speed is 9 above the limit (wink, wink) And the cops get pissy, but if you stand your ground and let them know the correct speed you where going. they will give in or just hand you the ticket. If its not signed when you go to court, the DA's always get mad but if you stand your ground once again they will drop the fines and fees.

Tyrel

Exactly, I didn't know the exact ruling for it. But was pretty sure you couldn't get arrested for not signing a ticket. It just really irritates cops and DA's when you don't sign. But the really can't do a thing about it.

[neh]

First the kid was arguing right off the bat. When he got out of the truck and eventually started walking beck to his truck, he had his hand in one pocket and the other hand wasn't visible.

Put yourself in the trooper's shoes.

[wulf]

They can arrest you for not signing the ticket. By signing you are agreeing to show up to court. In other words they are releasing you on your own word that you'll show up. If you don't sign the ticket, they can take you in until someone bonds you out or signs say you will show up to court. Or sometimes you can pay by mail.

You don't have to sign, but they don't have to let you go.

They guy was being stupid, when a cop tells you to do something you do it, wandering around in handcuffs is not helping his case. Walking away, or attempting to flee is also stupid.

He may have been heavy handed, but the cop was in the legal limits of the law.

[Sonic Boom]

They guy was being stupid, when a cop tells you to do something you do it, wandering around in handcuffs is not helping his case. Walking away, or attempting to flee is also stupid.

He may have been heavy handed, but the cop was in the legal limits of the law.

I agree, he was not complying and had his hand in his pocket. I don't understand why people are assholes to cops... do as your told, be pleasant and courteous, and 99% of the time, they let you go. 7 out of the 8 times I've been pulled over it has worked for me.

Hand in pocket, not complying, and walking away from him... He had the fucking taser in his hand!

That's instant compliance in my book if a LEO has a taser on me. I've seen a bunch of these taser videos... and I know they have no hesitation to use them. The guy was being an asshole.

[The Black Knight]

And see I have to disagree a bit. Because it seemed a bit to much force if you ask me. The guy was not in a threatening demeanor. He was simply asking questions. Questions that didn't have any answers to them.

So you have to look at it from his point of view. If what he says is true. Then the Trooper was out of line, because the didn't tell him how fast he was going and it wasn't on the ticket. I mean if it actually wasn't on the ticket. Don't you think he has a right to ask???

You just can't hand someone a ticket and have no reason behind it. Just because he say's he was speeding isn't good enough. He needs to have evidence of how fast he was going, to back up the charge of breaking the law. And I believe that's all the young guy wanted. Was just some answers as to what was really happening.

Either way, everyone will view it differently.

[fullgrownbear]

I also didn't know that you would be arrested if you didn't sign the ticket. I've always just signed the ticket and gone to court to either beat it or get it reduced.

Here in Colorado, we have what you call Traffic Infractions, and Traffic Offenses. Speeding is a traffic infraction, up to a certain point. Careless driving is a traffic offense.

Nobody is required to sign a traffic infraction, if they don't want to. Even though signing the ticket is only a promise to pay the fine, or appear in court, some people refuse. That's their right when it comes to a traffic infraction.

If you hold a Valid Colorado Driver's License, you're not required to sign a traffic offense either, because you've already promised to appear in court, or pay the fine, just by holding a valid license. If you have an out of state license, or if you don't have a valid license, You are required to sign on a traffic offense. If you refuse to sign, you are subject to arrest because you are indicating you will either not go to court, or not pay the fine. The same goes with a summons.

I didn't watch the video yet.. I'll watch it now.

[fullgrownbear]

Okay... I watched the video.

First off, let me tell you based on my training and experience, these folks did not appear to be threatening in the least, even with the hand in the pocket. I didn't observe or feel any aggressive demeanor coming from the arestee's person.

Secondly, Just because he walked away from the officer, is not defensive resistance. It's more of a passive resistance. He was failing to obey his verbal commands. That doesnt' mean this officer should've gone straight to the Taser. We don't even carry tasers. Im glad that we don't, otherwise I think officers would rely too much on their intermediate weapons, other than whats upstairs.

Thirdly, The officer could've done a much better job of explaining the citation, and why he was going to be subject to arrest, other than ordering him directly out of the vehicle.

It's my opinion that he used excessive force, and escalated a situation that could've been resolved with a simple exchange of conversation. No officer is above explaining anything. It's when you get to a point where you're arguing with the person, that the contact needs to be peacfully ended, i.e. tell it to the judge, you're getting the ticket regardless.

In situations like these, (and i've had them), I will walk through the main points of the violation I observed, with the defendant, step by step. If they're billigerant it's a different story, but in this case, this guy wasn't billigerant.


James

[Brat]

all i will say is one in a line of many cops imo pushing the limits. no good. imagine if he had reached for his firearm and not the tazer..

[Keyser Soze]

Fuck the police......that is all...

[Brat]

at least that police. he shouldnt be on the streets armed. nope.

[King Nothing]

The cop is pretty much a POS, like most cops. (Of course, I would expect nothing less from a state run by one of the richest cults on the planet.) A simple explanation may have avoided the entire tazing thing.

[pauliep]

Cop was out of line and should get more coming to him then what his Dept deals.

[Brat]

there are good cops but this is just another example of bad officers. too many KEEP arising! too many!

[Zanos]

I am not sure on Utah law. But they may be able to take you into custody for not signing a ticket. The man was verbally non-compliant and started walking back to his vehicle.

Many departments in CO would have allowed use of a Tazer. Obviously if he was being arrested, there is even more.

I think it is overboard use of force.

[pauliep]

I think the Cop should have read him his rights, most of all especially after he asked the cop to do so.

[fullgrownbear]

I think the Cop should have read him his rights, most of all especially after he asked the cop to do so.

Do you understand when the miranda rights apply? His miranda rights are not required to be read in this particular situation. He was not subject to any questioning.

Miranda rights only apply when you are subject to questioning after you're already in custody. In this particular case, the officer had no reason to ask him any questions.

If the officer would've asked him incriminating questions as to the crime committed, the worst that could've happend is the incriminating statements from the defendant would have gotten tossed in court, because he failed to read him his rights.

[Xtremjeepn]

There is something screwy about the video. The whole section of the cop going back to his car is edited out. So we have NO idea what dispatch told him about the driver. For all we know the guy could be a wanted murderer with 10 false identities. The cop "may" have only wanted him to "sign" the ticket to also get him for some form of "Criminal impersonation". who really knows with that section of the video edited out. The video may have been edited in such a way to make us think the ONLY reason for the taser was the lack of signiture.

Secondly. Some departments put the taser at one step above "verbal" commands while others put is just below "deadly force". I have no idea where Utah puts it on the use of force continum. It may be pretty low on the scale for highway patrol simply because of the proximity of backup most of the time.

Bottom line is there is missing CRITICAL information from teh video and our understanding of their law to make any informed judgement call on this.

[pauliep]

Thanks for clearing up the miranda rights deal

[Xtremjeepn]

Further thought on the edited part of the video.


There are only 2 ways that part of the video could have gone.

1. Dispatch tells the officer that the guy is NOT wanted and has a valid lisence. In that case why would you want to edit it out of the video? It would help confirm that this guy was tased ONLY for not signing the ticket.

2. Dispatch tells the officer that the guy IS WANTED and/or has a suspended lisence. In this case it gives the officer more reason to not want to put hands on the guy. The person that posted the video does not want us to know that. They just want us to think the ONLY reason for the taser was the not signing of the ticket.

[Xtremjeepn]

Further clarification on Miranda.

You need TWO elements for Miranda to be required.

-Suspect must be in custody. (or percieved custody, i.e surrounded by 6 cops but not actually in cuffs. The suspect does not feel they can just walk away)

-Questions must be specific to that particular crime. Any other question can be asked without Miranda being read. (name, address, etc etc, fav color)

[fullgrownbear]

Thanks for clearing up the miranda rights deal

No prob.

BTW, that vid was on foxnews as well. From what I see, the tazer far exceeded the reasonableness of the situation.

Too many officers these days are resorting to intermediate weapons right away. He didn't even attempt to physically restrain the guy before the use of the tazer.

Sometimes you just have to forget those intermediate weapons are on your belt, until you really need them. It's at the point you really need them that there is no question about the justification of their use.

[fullgrownbear]

Xtremjeep, Good clarification.

[Xtremjeepn]

No prob.

Too many officers these days are resorting to intermediate weapons right away. He didn't even attempt to physically restrain the guy before the use of the tazer.

.


That right there is part of the problem. In many department the taser is between "verbal" and "hands on". The whole point of the taser is to prevent the officer and suspect from being hurt in a hands on confrontation. Add to that the remote nature of a Utah state trooper and you can see where he would want to do anything he can before getting in a physical fight. Remember that there were AT LEAST TWO guys in that car. If that offcer woud have gotten in a wrestling match with one guy he could have easily been taken by the second and killed.

[King Nothing]

I think you're all missing a very important point, the cop was douche.

[Xtremjeepn]

I was not judging that. Just pointing out that someone deliberately left out key information.