Changing out brake lines

[surfinspacegirl]

I bought some Goodridge steel lines for the SVS and am planning to put them on the bike this w/e, along with new EBC pads 8)

I've never done anything like this before, so having read through all the "How To"s I can find on bleeding brakes, I'm wondering if anyone can give me any additional "personal experience" pointers to make the process of getting the brake fluid into the new lines as painless as possible?

And now for some really dumb questions :oops: :

1) what size tubing will I need? I'm guessing since the bleed nipple needs
an 8mm wrench to loosen it, a similar size?
2) How much brake fluid should I get? I need to replace the old stuff, as
it's really manky, and have some extra for (ahem) newbie "incidents"
3) Any pointers on installing the new pads? Something else I've never done before...

Thanks :D

[UglyDogRacing]

Hannah- if you want to come by my place, I can do them for you.

[surfinspacegirl]

Hannah- if you want to come by my place, I can do them for you.

I thought you were racing this w/e :?

Thanks for the offer :D but it's really something I want to do myself - it's the best way to learn! :)

[Anonymous]

ssg you might want to take milehigh up on it your first time doing this. It's not technically hard to do, but you want to avoid things like contaminating the brake fluid, and at all costs getting air in the lines. Air in the brakes = you not stopping, plus the air will heat and cause your brakes to squeeze down at fairly bad times. Otherwise just keep the fluid off your fairings, cause it destroys paint like nothing else.

[surfinspacegirl]

ssg you might want to take milehigh up on it your first time doing this.
I do appreciate Jim's offer, but he's racing down in Pueblo this weekend, and Sunday the only time I have to do this. I do have a riding buddy who's done this before coming over to mine to direct me (translation: sip beer while I do the hard stuff :D) and hopefully stop me making any serious gaffes.....(famous last words! :lol: )

I was hoping there might be some collective knowledge that you guys would be willing to share, independently of that, so I'm not going in totally blind..... :)


but you want to avoid things like contaminating the brake fluid, and at all costs getting air in the lines.
OK, but the new lines are empty = full of air. So....what do I do???? Are there any specific things I should do/not do to prevent contaminating the fluid, or getting air in the lines? Help me out, please :D

So far, my thinking is as follows: bleed all the old fluid out, take off the existing lines, put the new ones on, refill from the master cylinder and pump through using the brake lever until no bubbles come through the tubing attached to the bleed nipple at the other end - making sure there's always enough fluid in the master cylinder so that no air is pulled into the lines..... am I on the right track?


Otherwise just keep the fluid off your fairings, cause it destroys paint like nothing else.
Brake fluid is water-soluble, though, isn't it, so if I do spill some I should be able to wash it off, right? What about skin contact? Should I be wearing gloves?

[yakuza]

The process you just described is pretty much the same way I went about it when I replaced my lines, Hannah.

Edit: I wouldn't soak your hands in brake fluid, but a little bit on the skin shouldn't kill you. :)

[surfinspacegirl]

The process you just described is pretty much the same way I went about it when I replaced my lines, Hannah.

Edit: I wouldn't soak your hands in brake fluid, but a little bit on the skin shouldn't kill you. :)

Thanks, Alex. Anything I should avoid doing, apart from a little brake fluid bathing? :lol:

Hanna

[UglyDogRacing]

Hanna- Sounds like you got it down. The only other things I would recommend is use torque wrench when yo tighten the banjo bolts (very easy to over-tighten them) and put some old towels over your tank and fairings. Brake fluid will eat right through the paint if you spill it. Also, make sure you use Dot4 brake fluid only.

[surfinspacegirl]

Hanna- Sounds like you got it down. The only other things I would recommend is use torque wrench when yo tighten the banjo bolts (very easy to over-tighten them) and put some old towels over your tank and fairings. Brake fluid will eat right through the paint if you spill it. Also, make sure you use Dot4 brake fluid only.

Thanks, Jim. Good point about the torque wrench, thankfully I invested in one of those some time ago. Good luck in Pueblo :D

[yakuza]

Thanks, Alex. Anything I should avoid doing, apart from a little brake fluid bathing? :lol:

Hanna

I think Jim covered the important things. I gotta reiterate how important it is to use a torque wrench -- I busted a banjo bolt in half the first time I did it even using a torque wrench, because I was an idiot and torqued it to the spec for a steel banjo instead of an aluminum one. :oops:

[surfinspacegirl]

Thanks, guys :up: I'll let you know how the brake bleed goes.

Any pointers on replacing the pads?

[Anonymous]

So far, my thinking is as follows: bleed all the old fluid out, take off the existing lines, put the new ones on, refill from the master cylinder and pump through using the brake lever until no bubbles come through the tubing attached to the bleed nipple at the other end - making sure there's always enough fluid in the master cylinder so that no air is pulled into the lines..... am I on the right track?


Otherwise just keep the fluid off your fairings, cause it destroys paint like nothing else.
Brake fluid is water-soluble, though, isn't it, so if I do spill some I should be able to wash it off, right? What about skin contact? Should I be wearing gloves?

1. Sounds good. Also make sure you start with the end of the new line in fresh brake fluid (as soon as the old stuff is out, throw it away) before you fill it.

2. It absorbs water, not the other way around. However it also will eat the paint instantly and soak into it, so even if you wipe it off you will still damage the finish. Definitely cover any part of the bike you might spill it on. Towels are cheap insurance compared to a paint job.

I concur about the torque wrench. I have one you can use (and any ratchet size you can think of), provided it's back in my garage as soon as you're done with it, if your friend isn't equipped with one. Though, does anyone here know what torque value to use on the banjo fitting? Either 7 or 15lbs rings a bell for some reason but I could be wrong.

[surfinspacegirl]

1. Sounds good. Also make sure you start with the end of the new line in fresh brake fluid (as soon as the old stuff is out, throw it away) before you fill it.
You've confused me here :oops: Do you mean refill with all new fluid (obviously), or something else?

2. It absorbs water, not the other way around. However it also will eat the paint instantly and soak into it, so even if you wipe it off you will still damage the finish. Definitely cover any part of the bike you might spill it on. Towels are cheap insurance compared to a paint job. I know it's hydroscopic, but I thought I'd read somewhere it could be washed off, obviously not. Got it.

I concur about the torque wrench. I have one you can use (and any ratchet size you can think of), provided it's back in my garage as soon as you're done with it, if your friend isn't equipped with one.
I have my own torque wrench & ratchets but I do appreciate the offer :D

[Hoopty]

The brake pads are easy. Take the mouting bolts off and pull the retaining clip off of the pin, then you should be able to pull the old pads right off. Put the new ones on in reverse order. The left and right pads are different on the SV just so ya know. What kind of EBC pads did you get? I used to have the EBC HH ones, now I have the EBC race kit brakes. :o Both are a huge improvement over stock! :D

[surfinspacegirl]

I got the HH pads :) I did get the different left and right side ones, but one question (I'm double-checking!), is it left as you look at the bike from the front, or left as you sit on the bike ? :lol: Can't wait to see how the whole system works with the new lines & pads :D

The K&N filter went in last w/e & that's made a noticeable difference already, I'm hoping to get it jetted & dyno'd in the next 2 weeks or so. I'm picking up a new set of Dunlop 208s on Sat, so I am going to be a very happy girlie come Sunday night :D

[yakuza]

Typically left and right is defined as you sit on the bike.

There's no feeling quite like new tires, it's amazing the difference that makes. I'll be buying a new set of Pirelli's for this weekends race, I can't wait to feel them. :)

[Anonymous]

There's no feeling quite like new tires, it's amazing the difference that makes. I'll be buying a new set of Pirelli's for this weekends race, I can't wait to feel them. :)
I put over 9000 miles on the D208 I had on the front :shock: , and when I replaced it (for another D208) just before PPIR, it felt so wierd, the steering had totally changed- it felt... wrong :? . I suppose I shouldn't wait that long before changing front tires again, but I probably will :oops: :lol:

[surfinspacegirl]

I put over 9000 miles on the D208 I had on the front :shock: , and when I replaced it (for another D208) just before PPIR, it felt so wierd, the steering had totally changed- it felt... wrong :? . I suppose I shouldn't wait that long before changing front tires again, but I probably will :oops: :lol:

My front has about 6000 miles on it right now.....time for a change, definately :)

[Hoopty]

Very nice Hanna, you will love the new pads. Talk about one finger stoppies! :o I would assume L/R from on the bike as well. They will only fit one way though, so it shouldn't be a big problem. Check this out guys, I got this in an email today, sounds pretty helpful for bleeding!!! :up:

http://www.speedbleeder.com/

[Dysco]

When changing the lines on Chaos' SV we discovered that a little plastic pump attached to a tube off the bleeder valve made the job about 10 times faster and easier. They sell for ~$10 at the auto parts store. That valve isn't very big- take the bike to the hardware store to check for size for the tube- can't remember offhand what size we used.
Then it's all about filling the res and pumping. Having a helper sit on the bike, work the lever, and fill is really nice. One bottle of fluid is plenty.

[jwimbauer]

I put over 9000 miles on the D208 I had on the front :shock: , and when I replaced it (for another D208) just before PPIR, it felt so wierd, the steering had totally changed- it felt... wrong :? . I suppose I shouldn't wait that long before changing front tires again, but I probably will :oops: :lol:

My front has about 6000 miles on it right now.....time for a change, definately :)

Hanna, when using HH pads with steel lines, I would recommend "high temp braking fluid" and whatever you do don't mix different viscosities of braking fluids (chemical reaction). The HH pads will transfer more heat into the fluid which under normal conditions has a boiling point of 300. The high temp stuff will go to 500 degrees.

thanks

C'ya


Jurgen

[surfinspacegirl]

Hanna, when using HH pads with steel lines, I would recommend "high temp braking fluid" and whatever you do don't mix different viscosities of braking fluids (chemical reaction). The HH pads will transfer more heat into the fluid which under normal conditions has a boiling point of 300. The high temp stuff will go to 500 degrees.

Wow, Jurgen, thanks for the tip. By not mixing I'm assuming draining out the old & replacing with new is enough?

[jwimbauer]

Hanna, when using HH pads with steel lines, I would recommend "high temp braking fluid" and whatever you do don't mix different viscosities of braking fluids (chemical reaction). The HH pads will transfer more heat into the fluid which under normal conditions has a boiling point of 300. The high temp stuff will go to 500 degrees.

Wow, Jurgen, thanks for the tip. By not mixing I'm assuming draining out the old & replacing with new is enough?

Yep - replacing it is good enough as you are flushing the remainders out while pumping the new one in. Also, Hanna - they make "Speedbleeders" which are "one-way valves" to replace the stock ones on your caliber that work really well if you don't have a vacuum device. They are a LP item and should be available at bike stores with LP accessories.

Thanks


Jurgen

[surfinspacegirl]

Awesome, Jurgen, thanks :D

[Hoopty]

Hanna, here's that link again. :D http://www.speedbleeder.com

[yakuza]

Hanna, did you get these changed out smoothly this weekend? :)

[surfinspacegirl]

Hanna, did you get these changed out smoothly this weekend? :)

Thanks for asking Alex :)

After multiple recommendations about speedbleeders being "worth their weight in gold" I ordered some and am waiting for them to arrive 8)
Hopefully I'll get them this week, and get the brake lines done this w/e. I'll be sure to post a writeup of my "adventures in brake land" once I'm done :lol:

[yakuza]

Sounds good, although I've seen speedbleeders at local motorcycle shops here in Fort Collins, so you might not have had to order them. I don't currently have them on my bike, but from what I hear I should put them on. :lol:

[surfinspacegirl]

Well, the speed bleeders hadn't arrived by yesterday, so I called to find out what's going on. Turns out occasional internet orders don't go through, and guess what - mine was one of them :x You'd have thought if they knew there was a problem, they'd look into fixing it! :x

Anyway, the nice lady apologized profusely and promised she'd get them shipped out same day, so they should be on their way to me...

More as it happens :D

[yakuza]

Wanna tell us what shop that was so we know who to avoid in the future? :)

[surfinspacegirl]

Wanna tell us what shop that was so we know who to avoid in the future? :)

I ordered online via speedbleeder.com - I thought going directly to the source would minimize potential for errors. Famous last words :lol:

I'd suggesting calling them directly to order :D

[yakuza]

Crap, you'd definitely think things would go smoothly directly from the source! Ah well, thanks for the heads up to call them if I want to order some. :)

[surfinspacegirl]

OK, how's this for :wtf:

I finally get around to changing out the brake lines on the SV :oops: (No light in the garage and I've been out of town every w/e so far..)

The front brakes have single line going from the master cylinder to the triple tree junction, which splits into two lines, one to each front caliper.

Last night I realize the Goodridge kit has only 2 lines in it.

This morning I get on the phone with Performance, who talk to Goodridge, who say that's all you get for the SV front brakes - two lines - and that no, they don't have a solution for the line that goes from the master cylinder to the triple tree.

:wtf:

So I'm supposed to have braided steel lines from the triple tree to each caliper, but a rubber line from the master cylinder to the triple tree? That doesn't sound right...

:x

We're trying to figure out a solution that doesn't involve me having to build a master cylinder line, but it may be I have to do that :x

[yakuza]

Uhhhh.... are you sure the lines aren't long enough to go from the brakes up to the master cylinder? You could then use a double-banjo bolt and have no need for the splitter line at the triple-tree. That is how it worked on my bike anyways...

Sounds weird that they would make a kit that wouldn't fully replace the lines...

Edit: In fact, check out this link, it says what I said above in more detail, and is written for the SV. :)
http://www.blackbook.org/2002/11/021116.php

[surfinspacegirl]

Uhhhh.... are you sure the lines aren't long enough to go from the brakes up to the master cylinder? You could then use a double-banjo bolt and have no need for the splitter line at the triple-tree. That is how it worked on my bike anyways...

Sounds weird that they would make a kit that wouldn't fully replace the lines...

Nope, I'm pretty sure they're only long enough to go from the triple tree to the caliper.

:?

[yakuza]

Well, that doesn't make any sense to me. :? All those Goodridge kits are designed to get rid of the tee connection....


All Goodridge front brake kits feature dual lines and all necessary hardware which eliminates the use of the tee connector under the triple tree. This eliminates weight and provides a better feel.

http://www.motodepot.com/street/brakes/goodridge/goodridge.html

Hopefully Performance/Goodridge get this resolved for you.

[surfinspacegirl]

Well, that doesn't make any sense to me. :? All those Goodridge kits are designed to get rid of the tee connection....


All Goodridge front brake kits feature dual lines and all necessary hardware which eliminates the use of the tee connector under the triple tree. This eliminates weight and provides a better feel.

http://www.motodepot.com/street/brakes/goodridge/goodridge.html

Hopefully Performance/Goodridge get this resolved for you.

Maybe I'm just being dense.....I'll let you know...

[Anonymous]

Did you see yakuza's edit to his earlier post - it has pictures partway down which may be helpful.

Edit: In fact, check out this link, it says what I said above in more detail, and is written for the SV. :)
http://www.blackbook.org/2002/11/021116.php

[Ytry2]

ssg you might want to take milehigh up on it your first time doing this.
I do appreciate Jim's offer, but he's racing down in Pueblo this weekend, and Sunday the only time I have to do this. I do have a riding buddy who's done this before coming over to mine to direct me (translation: sip beer while I do the hard stuff :D) and hopefully stop me making any serious gaffes.....(famous last words! :lol: )

I was hoping there might be some collective knowledge that you guys would be willing to share, independently of that, so I'm not going in totally blind..... :)


but you want to avoid things like contaminating the brake fluid, and at all costs getting air in the lines.
OK, but the new lines are empty = full of air. So....what do I do???? Are there any specific things I should do/not do to prevent contaminating the fluid, or getting air in the lines? Help me out, please :D

So far, my thinking is as follows: bleed all the old fluid out, take off the existing lines, put the new ones on, refill from the master cylinder and pump through using the brake lever until no bubbles come through the tubing attached to the bleed nipple at the other end - making sure there's always enough fluid in the master cylinder so that no air is pulled into the lines..... am I on the right track?


Otherwise just keep the fluid off your fairings, cause it destroys paint like nothing else.
Brake fluid is water-soluble, though, isn't it, so if I do spill some I should be able to wash it off, right? What about skin contact? Should I be wearing gloves?


I will be home this weekend ;)

[surfinspacegirl]

I will be home this weekend ;)
:lol: Thanks, TC. Look out for the panicked phonecall....

:? You & Shana not racing LaJunta?????

[Nick_Ninja]

surfnspacegirl wrote:

I was hoping there might be some collective knowledge that you guys would be willing to share, independently of that, so I'm not going in totally blind.....



DO WEAR SOME LATEX GLOVES --- You can pick up a box at Wal-Mart

Here are some good sites so you don't go blind:

http://www.geocities.com/hobiegary/brakefluid.html


http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcnuts/braketech.motml


Have fun! GONE FISH'N :D

[surfinspacegirl]

Just got finished wrenching. Things took a little longer than expected, since we found some hitherto unsuspected deer damage that needed fixing :cry:

SS front lines are on, front EBC HH pads are in, speed bleeders are installed and now my eyes will pop out if I brake too hard! :lol:

What a difference :up: One finger braking pulls me to a very abrupt stop. Wow :D

Speed bleeders, once you figure out how far to undo them to let the one-way valves do their work, are the bomb. I thoroughy recommend them.

Getting the new lines on was a little tricky; I spilt some brake fluid on the bike, but got it off before it caused any damage. It's messy since there's always a bit of fluid left in the old lines, but not really that big a deal. Just have to think things through before you do them. Having someone around to give you a hand helps too :D

[Hoopty]

Nice Hanna, glad to hear you got it all done. What'd I tell you about the brakes though? You never really notice a problem with them until you ride someone else's bike or upgrade yours... :o One fingered stoppies, here Hanna comes! :D

[surfinspacegirl]

You said it, Hoopty :lol: I went for a burn up Turkey Creek and Deer Creek (twice) yesterday morning; I couldn't belive how much speed the new setup scrubbed off with just light pressure on the lever. I had sooooo much fun 8)

[yakuza]

How did the lines end up working out? Were you able to install them without the tee?

Glad to hear you like the new stopping power, it makes a big difference. :)

[surfinspacegirl]

How did the lines end up working out? Were you able to install them without the tee?
Err yes :oops: The lines were fine. I was the idiot. There's nothing better than making a fool of oneself in public to ensure one doesn't take onerself so seriously! :lol:


Glad to hear you like the new stopping power, it makes a big difference. :) Yes it does 8) Can't wait for Pueblo....any tips

[yakuza]

Can't wait for Pueblo....any tips

Well, not really any tips, besides take your time getting used to the track, and be careful coming onto the front straight as they use it for drag races and it can be a little slippery, particularly if it's wet. Hopefully I'll be down there with you all and can give a few pointers. :)