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View Full Version : Advise on turns/bends?



Speedwagon
Sun Apr 6th, 2008, 12:12 AM
Ok, so I'm from Chicago. We don't exactly have the same kind of roads out there, that are out here. I'm noticing now that I'm not as comfortable in some of these turns as I'd like to be on my bike. I just don't feel very confident that I know where the limit is, and how fast to safely take a bend.

Is this just something to come over time, or is there any advise to give a fresh CO rider like myself?

txrc51fatboy
Sun Apr 6th, 2008, 12:21 AM
practice, practice and practice.

check out a book called "sport riding techniques"

most importantly dont ride over your head, nothing wrong with going slow around corners, speed will come.

also hit the track, safest place to learn

dirkterrell
Sun Apr 6th, 2008, 07:19 AM
also hit the track, safest place to learn

Yep, come up to IMI (small track in Dacono; exit 232 on I-25, one exit past Hwy 7 going to Lafayette) on Saturday or Sunday and hook up with us. It's a good place to practice your technique without the concerns of the street. Lots of experienced riders there who are willing to help you. Just ask.

Dirk

Aracheon
Sun Apr 6th, 2008, 07:21 AM
Yep, come up to IMI (small track in Dacono; exit 232 on I-25, one exit past Hwy 7 going to Lafayette) on Saturday or Sunday and hook up with us. It's a good place to practice your technique without the concerns of the street. Lots of experienced riders there who are willing to help you. Just ask.

Dirk


:imwithstupid:

Slo
Sun Apr 6th, 2008, 08:39 AM
First off your already in the right frame of mind, already knowing you need some "help". Don't get intimidated by a track, you won't regret it. You don't even have to go faster until you feel comfortable, go as slow as you want and we will help you out at IMI. First time I was out there, I was one of the slowest as well so no worries on how fast you are.

Rednarb
Sun Apr 6th, 2008, 08:50 AM
Slow, look, lean, roll. Delayed apex (not racing apex) for the safest line. Great stuff from Proficient Motorcycling by David Hough (and likely others as well). This book really hammers this technique in thoroughly and has made me a better rider.

Gramps
Sun Apr 6th, 2008, 01:37 PM
Another book I would suggest is

"Twist of the Wrist II"

by : Keith Code

As well as what the others have said:)

QuarterMile
Mon Apr 7th, 2008, 01:14 AM
I have this same issue when I ride my bike, it I developed mine as a bad habit though, I took a riders course and everything, I bought a bike off the streets it was some cheap first time bike, and the guy must have wrecked it before because the handle bars seem to be slightly off, but it effected my turning because i had to lean more on one side and less on the other.

When I got my new bike, I noticed I was kind of scared to lean more on the side that I had to lean less on before. I still have this habit and almost wrecked because of it, I been trying to brake it, but it's hard because I get very scared when trying to make a hard left turn.

I slowed down to much and I hit my brakes half way in the turn and I almost slid out, or down shifted in a turn and almost slid out. I don't understand what i can do to break the habit.

lovinCO
Mon Apr 7th, 2008, 07:00 AM
I have this same issue when I ride my bike, it I developed mine as a bad habit though, I took a riders course and everything, I bought a bike off the streets it was some cheap first time bike, and the guy must have wrecked it before because the handle bars seem to be slightly off, but it effected my turning because i had to lean more on one side and less on the other.

When I got my new bike, I noticed I was kind of scared to lean more on the side that I had to lean less on before. I still have this habit and almost wrecked because of it, I been trying to brake it, but it's hard because I get very scared when trying to make a hard left turn.

I slowed down to much and I hit my brakes half way in the turn and I almost slid out, or down shifted in a turn and almost slid out. I don't understand what i can do to break the habit.

Take it easy and go back to the basics. What about going MSF-style and riding around in a parking lot? Make a big square and just force yourself to ride around and around taking left turns. I think more seat time on a straight bike will help you feel comfortable. And finish your downshifting while you're still upright, before entering a corner. Then go ride with those guys at the track. :)

Slo
Mon Apr 7th, 2008, 09:10 AM
There was a parking lot the last 2 years perfect for this on Colfax, about a mile east of the mall by 470. It was a supertarget that is empty and the parking lot is huge, police always came by when we were there but never said anything to us, more likely got bored and left since we were out there all geared up and just practicing turns.

Couple state troopers had actually stopped there to eat their lunches but never any issues.

Here is one of the guys..... We had a couple of guys that had recently crashes and felt the same way you did, when leaning over, they felt like the bike would slip out just like when they crashed, but within 20 minutes, their confidence was back....
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4352/1000945gb8.jpg

Scer
Mon Apr 7th, 2008, 09:22 AM
Make sure you swoop out wide for the turn and start entering early rather than later. It is easier to stand the bike up to finish the turn rather than to lean more to keep from going over the lines. You are going to slow down for turns anyway so make sure the rpms are up before hitting it. It allows you to engine brake as well as exit the corner at a faster rate. It just makes the turns more fluid.
Also, look ahead! You are already in the turn so looking down at your front tire will only set you up for objects very close to you. Which in many cases will be too late. Look up the road and prepare for things to come instead. Like a nice patch of sand or oncoming traffic.
These are just things I have learned but I will echo what others have said and say learn at YOUR pace. You can't buy or teach confidence, unfortunately. =P have fun!

learn on learnas

jbnwc
Mon Apr 7th, 2008, 09:35 AM
My little bro came out from Minnesota to ride with me and had the same sort of problems. I gave him this advice and he did fine.

1. Keep your eyes on the inside line(yellow line in a left bend, white line in a right bend) - That will keep you from focusing on and running into that RV/deer/cliff.
2. Your bike can lean further than you think.
3. Stay off the brakes in corners; if you think you are in too hot, refer to #2.

Thinking about these three things in the canyons will save your butt in most situations.

If you can, get to a track and practice! That will make the biggest difference in your confidence and your abilities.

VFR
Mon Apr 7th, 2008, 10:11 AM
Great advise and kudo's for looking for it. Nothing can replace the track for learning but if you can't get there remember these things plus:

Move your body around, sitting up straight in the seat will demand more lean of the bike. Sliding around in the seat will give you a better center of gravity

Prepare for the corner. Most of them have posted speed signs don't be afraid to go that speed. Practice practice practice.

Do not use unfamiliar roads to practice on. Evaluate where you plan to practice (is there sand, how much run off is there if any, what would I have to do if a car was entering my lane)

DO NOT ride above your skills to keep up. Remember the road will straighten out somewhere, play catchup then if you have to.

ZX Rider
Mon Apr 7th, 2008, 10:50 AM
There was a parking lot the last 2 years perfect for this on Colfax, about a mile east of the mall by 470. It was a supertarget that is empty and the parking lot is huge, police always came by when we were there but never said anything to us, more likely got bored and left since we were out there all geared up and just practicing turns.

Couple state troopers had actually stopped there to eat their lunches but never any issues.

Here is one of the guys..... We had a couple of guys that had recently crashes and felt the same way you did, when leaning over, they felt like the bike would slip out just like when they crashed, but within 20 minutes, their confidence was back....
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4352/1000945gb8.jpg

That parking lot did wonders for me. I couldn't believe it.
Practice, practice, practice.:hump:
Thanks Jay !!!

QuarterMile
Mon Apr 7th, 2008, 01:59 PM
Thanks guys, I know the perfect spot for this here in the springs, im going to head that direction the next sunny day. I hope toe brake this habit I got honestly.

Sortarican
Mon Apr 7th, 2008, 03:14 PM
....

VFR made a couple great points.

Body position:
Start by just getting your inside knee and elbow pointing out and your weight will begin to follow.

Speed:
Colorado roads have a pretty standardized speed grading for curves.
If it feels good going through curves at -10 or +30 mph different than posted you can be pretty comfortable at 80% of that on a curve you're not very familiar with.
And never take an unknown curve at anything close to your fastest pace.
Especially not until you get comfortable with leaning your way out of trouble.
(Instead of instinctually braking/decelerating when you come in hot.)

Really watch your speed on downhill right handers.
Gravity is against you and going wide drifts you into oncoming traffic.
(Gotta love a nice uphill left turn, gravity and runout are much kinder.)

Slo
Mon Apr 7th, 2008, 03:48 PM
Some of it comes down to your perception of speed and angle, etc. Meaning approaching a turn, you can feel how fast your going, or coming through a blind turn, you can see and feel if you "think" you will make it or not.

Most of the time people crash when they "feel" that the turn is too tight for their speed and lean angle. Along with safe measures and thinking, you can practice lean angles in a safe environment whether it be in a parking lot or track and then your much more confident through the canyons or other turns.

Your perception will get you into trouble out there, but reality is, like someone else already said, the bike can probably do much more than you think/feel.....

mayhem
Tue Apr 8th, 2008, 10:46 AM
I have this same issue when I ride my bike, it I developed mine as a bad habit though, I took a riders course and everything, I bought a bike off the streets it was some cheap first time bike, and the guy must have wrecked it before because the handle bars seem to be slightly off, but it effected my turning because i had to lean more on one side and less on the other.

When I got my new bike, I noticed I was kind of scared to lean more on the side that I had to lean less on before. I still have this habit and almost wrecked because of it, I been trying to brake it, but it's hard because I get very scared when trying to make a hard left turn.

I slowed down to much and I hit my brakes half way in the turn and I almost slid out, or down shifted in a turn and almost slid out. I don't understand what i can do to break the habit.

to stop the downshifting rear tire slide, when you pull in the clutch to downshift, rap the throttle to bring your rpms up, then downshift. that way the motor doesnt lock up your rear wheel and engine braking will take over to slow you down....my .02

mayhem
Tue Apr 8th, 2008, 10:49 AM
Thanks guys, I know the perfect spot for this here in the springs, im going to head that direction the next sunny day. I hope toe brake this habit I got honestly.

if ur in the springs, stop by pikes perk cafe on 1616 s. 8th street and i have the perfect book for you to use, also i can help explain to you the right technique for cornering.......

pixel 6
Wed Apr 9th, 2008, 04:41 AM
That parking lot did wonders for me. I couldn't believe it.
Practice, practice, practice.:hump:
Thanks Jay !!!

Still is a great spot to learn. I went out there last week to test out my new dual caliper hand brake setup. It needs to be swept up a bit. But is probably the best practice spot for leaning in metro Denver.

- Pixel -

clustermagnet
Fri Apr 11th, 2008, 10:47 AM
All the above is +1mil :)

Take some canyon rides (go slow!) speed will come. Once comfy, go to the track.

IMI may not be the best place, being a 2nd gear gocart track ... Unless you absolutely cant wait for saddle time, dont go there...
PMP vs IMI is a no brainer. PMI is fun :) ... and you can also take Pridmore's motorcycle school when he comes :)

PMP you have to take a safety course with Joe as well, which is worth every moment.

And if you want to have a kick ass time, come to VIR in August with R2SL.

One thing I sincerely wish CO had was
1.) more tracks, but thats coming... hopefully
2.) an organized sportbike club with trackdays on weekends, flaggers, and ambulance... and riding groups...

if you come to R2SL, you will have all that :) + TPM coaches

HOTCARCASS
Wed Apr 23rd, 2008, 04:07 AM
There is all the fun in the world to be had at lower speeds. Get comfortable moving your body to both sides of your bike. Do it smooth and deliberate. Work your mid range power both while accelerating and decelerating. Let your good side teach your bad side. Immitate your good side. Corner outside in and keep your eyes up.

B_Ott
Wed Apr 23rd, 2008, 06:09 AM
There was a parking lot the last 2 years perfect for this on Colfax, about a mile east of the mall by 470. It was a supertarget that is empty and the parking lot is huge, police always came by when we were there but never said anything to us, more likely got bored and left since we were out there all geared up and just practicing turns.

Couple state troopers had actually stopped there to eat their lunches but never any issues.

Here is one of the guys..... We had a couple of guys that had recently crashes and felt the same way you did, when leaning over, they felt like the bike would slip out just like when they crashed, but within 20 minutes, their confidence was back....
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4352/1000945gb8.jpg

Anyone know the cross streets of this location? I have no clue what mall by 470 except southlands but that is on smoky hill. Would love to go there and practice since I also am the same way and would like to get a feel for my bike.

sprtbkbabe
Wed Apr 23rd, 2008, 09:28 AM
Charles De Mar (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0035664/): Go that way, really fast. If something gets in your way, turn.

199
Wed Apr 23rd, 2008, 11:06 AM
read Total Control by Lee Parks

ZX Rider
Wed Apr 23rd, 2008, 11:48 AM
Anyone know the cross streets of this location? I have no clue what mall by 470 except southlands but that is on smoky hill. Would love to go there and practice since I also am the same way and would like to get a feel for my bike.

Cross streets are Colfax and Quail st (just west of Kipling).
Turn north from Colfax on Quail and you can't miss it.
It's huge parking lot that used to be Target store or something like that.

Kevin
Fri Apr 25th, 2008, 01:04 AM
Yep, come up to IMI (small track in Dacono; exit 232 on I-25, one exit past Hwy 7 going to Lafayette) on Saturday or Sunday and hook up with us. It's a good place to practice your technique without the concerns of the street. Lots of experienced riders there who are willing to help you. Just ask.

Dirk

Is this invite good anytime? I mean do you guys do this every weekend or on a schedule? I just recently got a new bike and I've been wanting to get it to the track and learn how to handle it a bit better. Do I need any gear besides a helmet and a street jacket/gloves? I'd like to have full leathers, but that's expensive and I don't think I'll be pushing it that fast on my first time at the track, learning the bike. How much does it cost? What time?
Thanks! :yumyum:

Kevin
Fri Apr 25th, 2008, 01:19 AM
I know that supertarget parking lot - I'm heading out there to practice a bit! As long as we're on the subject, I get a little hesitant going around corners when riding around town. I used to race autocross in cars, and got in the habit of braking until about 1/3 the way into a corner, and then accelerating out of it. That doesn't work so well on bikes!
1) So I'm having a hard time judging speed before I go into a turn, entering either too fast or too slow. I'm not used to judging my speed before I enter a turn. Alot of the speed hesitation has to do with the next one:
2) I'm nervous about light sand/gravel, and the markings painted on the road. They're slippery! I've had a couple instances going through curves in the mountains, when my back tire jumped, slipping on the painted centerline. Funny thing about this bike, you don't feel it when it's loose, you feel it when it grabs again! Anyway, it's made me nervous going through regular corners around town. A friend told me some time ago not to worry about the light sand - to just power through it. Any suggestions?

dirkterrell
Fri Apr 25th, 2008, 07:11 AM
Is this invite good anytime? I mean do you guys do this every weekend or on a schedule? I just recently got a new bike and I've been wanting to get it to the track and learn how to handle it a bit better. Do I need any gear besides a helmet and a street jacket/gloves? I'd like to have full leathers, but that's expensive and I don't think I'll be pushing it that fast on my first time at the track, learning the bike. How much does it cost? What time?
Thanks! :yumyum:

There will probably be some people there tomorrow if the weather is ok. Several of us "regulars" will be racing in Pueblo tomorrow and Sunday. But there's a pretty good chance we'll be out there next Saturday. I try to get there around 9am before it gets too busy. It's $35/day and all that's required is a helmet and jacket.

Dirk

dirkterrell
Fri Apr 25th, 2008, 07:16 AM
2) I'm nervous about light sand/gravel, and the markings painted on the road. They're slippery! I've had a couple instances going through curves in the mountains, when my back tire jumped, slipping on the painted centerline. Funny thing about this bike, you don't feel it when it's loose, you feel it when it grabs again! Anyway, it's made me nervous going through regular corners around town. A friend told me some time ago not to worry about the light sand - to just power through it. Any suggestions?

Well, your tire shouldn't be on the centerline. :) That's a sign that you're taking the wrong line through the turn. I think you'll find that time spent at the track will enable you to improve your street riding considerably.

Dirk

Kevin
Fri Apr 25th, 2008, 08:10 AM
Well, your tire shouldn't be on the centerline. :) That's a sign that you're taking the wrong line through the turn. I think you'll find that time spent at the track will enable you to improve your street riding considerably.

Dirk

LOL - I know it shouldn't! :) Hence my needing to practice more! That was my first 'real' ride on the new bike, and I came into the turn hot and hit the centerline. You can understand why I'm nervous after finding myself in that predicament. I'm going to head over to that supertarget parking lot early this afternoon and check it out - maybe they're be others out there.

srod287
Wed Apr 30th, 2008, 10:16 PM
Hey there everyone, I'm new to sight and I just wanted to give some kudos to everyone on the advice. oh Thanks Mayhem for the advice on the rear tire slid on the down shift.

I just upgraded from a Suzuki gs500 to a GSXR 600 and it's whole different animal.

mayhem
Thu May 1st, 2008, 07:56 PM
your welcome,,,and if any of you want to borrow the book called total control let me know and i will bring it to my coffee shop for you to pick up...it's a great book and i learned alot from it...so many things that i thought were right, were really all wrong and some were even opposite of what you might believe...like, one would think that, if your going into a right hand turn, that you would turn the front wheel right. well thats totally wrong. what you want to do is push slightly forward on your right grip which in turn causes the bike to dive right (inertia) and cruise thru the corner...and all that shit is in the book....definately worth the read....ride safe guys................

Kevin
Thu May 1st, 2008, 08:11 PM
Hey all. I've gotten two practice sessions in out at the supertarget parking lot. What a GREAT location to pratice! It's got all the room you'll need! I've really learned how to throw my bike around and even managed to scrub the chicken strips off my tires! I practiced shifting my weight around, (still haven't gotten the dropping a knee thing - need a track for that!) Stopping fast (even got the back wheel off the ground in a sad looking stoppie or two!) and just manuevering the bike and learning what it can and can't do. I did manage to scrape my toes on the ground while going really fast in circles! But most importantly, I learned how to control the thing at low speeds - u-turns, corners, balance, etc. I'm soooo much more confident now knowing what my bike can do and how it behaves on the street. I'd reccomend that parking lot to anyone who wants to practice!

Anyone up for meeting up out there sometime to just screw around a bit?

@ mayhem - where's your coffee shop? I love coffee!

mayhem
Thu May 1st, 2008, 08:17 PM
westside in da spring.......1616 s. 8th street. the website is in my sig.....

Kevin
Sun May 4th, 2008, 01:17 AM
hey mayhem
your website is broken. i do web design - want me to fix it? :)
the photos page is working anyway - cool place. But you're all the way down in the springs. :(