A question for you experanced riders.

[IT WASN'T ME!]

I had a crash a few years ago that nearly killed me. The problem I have is that I can't figure out what happened. My friends an family are no help because they don't ride and thus don't understand that a simple lowside should not cause the kind of injuries I recieved. I would like to relate the facts as I know them to you and I would like to hear your theories about what might have happened.

I was just starting on a short ride in the hills with my son-in-law. It was early April. The weather was clear and dry. We were in the springs on Woodman west of I-25 headed south-west toward Highway 24 to ride to deckers. I was following him, a slow car had just turned off from in front of us. My son-in-law excellerated up to about 50 mph, I followed suit. We came to a little kink in the road, not even enough to even be called a corner. I remember turning in later than him and our differing lines crossing. I was not particularly close to his rear wheel so I don't think that we hit. The next thing I am aware of is waking up to some grinding sounds, still on the bike, still holding on to tha handlebars, still going in the same direction. I then realize that I have crashed and so kick the bike off of me. I slid to a stop, rolled over just in time to see a suv stop just short of running over me. When I rolled over I realized I had a bunch of broken ribs. It turned out that the whole left side of my ribcage was crushed, my shoulder blade was crushed and pushed in from the back and my chest cavity filled up with fluid. Also, all the skin was pealed off of the front of my shoulder and I had a broken clavacle. I was wearing full leathers with CE armor and fullface helmet and light riding gloves. I also had deep gouges through my gloves on the back of my hands, almost like burns from shrapnal. So, what happend? This was obviously more that a simple lowside, but I can't come up with a senario that fits the situation and injuries.

Thanks

[rybo]

This isn't terribly unlike the crash that took my spleen.

Here is what happened in my case:

I was at second creek raceway in a corner called Kamakazi which on this day was a fast left hand sweeper. Photo review of shots taken shortly before the crash indicate that the front tire had gone flat and when i rolled into this high speed corner the front end went away VERY suddenly. So quickly, in fact, that I didn't get my hands off the bars. Once I let go of the bars and the bike and I separated then it got exciting.

The end result was that it was my elbow broke my ribs, my shoulder was broken by pavement and my spleen was gotten by the broken ribs.

My guess in your case: Lost the front end either due to a flat tire, inadvertantly grabbing the front brake or some other reason. Elbow got ribs, pavement got collerbone/shoulder.

Burns are maybe emulsion burns from the heat of the leather on the pavement.

I wasn't there, and i'm no expert in this area, so I wouldn't bet a dollar on it, but it is one explanation for what may have happened.

[BUSANAS]

well its hard to tell, as they say sh!t happens, and someone wrecking at 70 might have nothing happen except scraped leathers, and another going 20 can fall hit a curb and break their back. Just saying unless it was all watched by someone very closly or video taped cant really tell.

[The GECCO]

Was this a left turn or a right turn? I'm assuming left, but want to make sure.

[IT WASN'T ME!]

Was this a left turn or a right turn? I'm assuming left, but want to make sure.
It was a left turn.

[dragos13]

How was your body position on the bike? Sitting in the middle of the seat?

Were you on the gas? Brakes? Steady throttle?

How was your lean angle? I imagine since you said it was a "kink" that lean must have been minimal.

Sometimes, when you are more up and down, your lowside is going to be much more violent. If you are cornering hard, and leaning at near max angle, you will be closer to the ground making the lowside less violent. Its when you have a ways to fall, that you can substain major injury.

From my guess, it sounds like you may have been on the brakes and tucked the front. Or maybe getting back on the gas and lost the rear. On public roads you always have a chance of gravel or dirt that can help you loose tire traction.

[The GECCO]

It was a left turn.

I figured as much but wanted to make sure because if it was a right turn, a low-side crash and injuries on the left, there would be some follow-up questions for sure!

I would caution you against this thinking
a simple lowside should not cause the kind of injuries I recievedThe idea that the amount and severity of injury has a direct relationship to the speed and severity of the crash is not at all true. There are many, many factors beyond kinetic energy that determine if and how badly a rider is injured.

I have been a first responder to literally hundreds of crashes during my time with the MRA and I have seen guys get up and walk away from some of the hairiest high speed get-offs, and I have also seen (and received!) broken bones and other serious injuries from a low-side in the slowest turn in Colorado (the "Ratt's Nest" at SCR).

I understand that you want to know exactly what happened in order to prevent it in the future, but I'm sorry to say that it simply isn't realistic, especially at this point (time having gone by, the inability to do accident reconstruction, etc). Shit Happens, if you dwell too much on making sure something like this never happens again you'll end up living in a bubble.

[DARK ANGEL]

as far as you not remembering actually starting the crash you may have blacked out for a few seconds and not remember the impact, then came too seconds after the first impact, this happened to me on my bicycle when i was a teen, i got hit by a camaro doing 40mph on my left side, all i remember was looking left seeing the blue camaro then i woke up on the ground with the shit kicked out of me. the brain can shut off when it senses or knows that pain is coming, its built into our genes so you may have peeled off the lip of the tire or hit some fine sand and the instant your brain recognized the bike is letting go, it shut off for a few seconds... just a few thoughts.

[IT WASN'T ME!]

How was your body position on the bike? Sitting in the middle of the seat?

Were you on the gas? Brakes? Steady throttle?

How was your lean angle? I imagine since you said it was a "kink" that lean must have been minimal.

Sometimes, when you are more up and down, your lowside is going to be much more violent. If you are cornering hard, and leaning at near max angle, you will be closer to the ground making the lowside less violent. Its when you have a ways to fall, that you can substain major injury.

From my guess, it sounds like you may have been on the brakes and tucked the front. Or maybe getting back on the gas and lost the rear. On public roads you always have a chance of gravel or dirt that can help you loose tire traction.
Steady throttle, no brakes, not much lean. I took a pretty good blow to the head, I was knocked out and had a concussion.

Hear's what bothers me about the simple lowside theory; The severity of the injuries to myself and my bike (it was totaled). I had that shrapnal damage to the back of my right hand as well as my left. My injuries show signs of crushing impact from the front (clavical and meat-wad front of shoulder) and from the back (shattered and caved-in scapulua). The scapulua is, according to my orthipedic surgen, the toughest, hardest to break bone in your body.

[Matty]

The scapulua is, according to my orthipedic surgen, the toughest, hardest to break bone in your body.

the scapula, clavicle, collarbone, and shoulder are the most common breaks involving motorcycle accidents. it's usually caused by your helmet.

[CoronaKOK]

i would have to say you got ran over no impact like that would cause that much damage and you said you blacked out and woke up sliding. its not unlikely that you drifted into the opposing lane and got hit its possible but not that you slid and crushed everything from sliding or maybe your fragile and have a calcium defienciey but drink some milk and get back out there.

[txrc51fatboy]

if you were knocked out, then i doubt you remember if you were on the gas or on the brakes.

wheni had my big one the only thing i remember from the entire day, was waking up in a helicopter, and thinking i was floating to heaven??

strange things will happen to your body when its sliding across the asphalt

[frank2]

EXPERANCED! Do I have to say more?

[Matty]

EXPERANCED! Do I have to say more?
wow... great way to make friends.

[Slo]

EXPERANCED! Do I have to say more?

Wow, Frank, I hope you never come on here asking for any advice or help? I guess you won't since you already have the answer of all answers? :banghead:

[IT WASN'T ME!]

i would have to say you got ran over no impact like that would cause that much damage and you said you blacked out and woke up sliding. its not unlikely that you drifted into the opposing lane and got hit its possible but not that you slid and crushed everything from sliding or maybe your fragile and have a calcium defienciey but drink some milk and get back out there.
I'm not fragile. I just fell off of a 6' step ladder a week before with no injuries (except to my pride), so I my be clumsy, but not fragile. It's the crushing injuries that throw me. The instrument cluster was destroyed, which also shouldn't have happened with a simple lowside. My best guess is that I somehow spun it all the way around and backed it into the curb then bounced off and spun back in the direction I was going, or I cartwheeled it.

[IT WASN'T ME!]

EXPERANCED! Do I have to say more?
I have been riding sense 1973 and I road raced for 3 yrs. I was a class champion one of those years. Is that experanced enough for you Frankie?

[IT WASN'T ME!]

if you were knocked out, then i doubt you remember if you were on the gas or on the brakes.

wheni had my big one the only thing i remember from the entire day, was waking up in a helicopter, and thinking i was floating to heaven??

strange things will happen to your body when its sliding across the asphalt
You weren't knocked out, you came back from the dead! Welcome back!

[dragos13]

I'm not fragile. I just fell off of a 6' step ladder a week before with no injuries (except to my pride), so I my be clumsy, but not fragile. It's the crushing injuries that throw me. The instrument cluster was destroyed, which also shouldn't have happened with a simple lowside. My best guess is that I somehow spun it all the way around and backed it into the curb then bounced off and spun back in the direction I was going, or I cartwheeled it.

yeah that is a large list of injuries however its possible. without having more info from by-standers, riders, etc its really hard to say. if you have an unsual lowside (bike is standing up, not much lean angle) then you have a long ways to fall before you hit the ground. that could cause the head injury and getting knocked out.

do you know if the bike hit you afterwards? what was the road like? curbing? guard rails? sidewalks?

when you came to, how far away was the bike? did you ever go back to look at the point of crash, to look at skid marks, gravel, ice, etc?

[IT WASN'T ME!]

yeah that is a large list of injuries however its possible. without having more info from by-standers, riders, etc its really hard to say. if you have an unsual lowside (bike is standing up, not much lean angle) then you have a long ways to fall before you hit the ground. that could cause the head injury and getting knocked out.

do you know if the bike hit you afterwards? what was the road like? curbing? guard rails? sidewalks?

when you came to, how far away was the bike? did you ever go back to look at the point of crash, to look at skid marks, gravel, ice, etc?
The road looked good, but as I slid to a stop I could see that there was a fine layer of sand. There was a curb. The bike didn't hit me because I was still on it when I woke up. The bike was totaled.

[RAGrote]

If you can define the moment better (which may never happen) you'll have your answer.
1000 people can guess what happened and every one of them might be wrong.

A slow fall can be as deadly as a fast fall. A few years back that very thing happened to a young lady... Many here remember her (Jen) She died, you didn't. Count your blessings and stop worrying about what happened until you can clearly identify your actions at that exact moment.

[Matrix]

[. My best guess is that I somehow spun it all the way around and backed it into the curb then bounced off and spun back in the direction I was going, or I cartwheeled it.[/quote]

The introduction of a curb into the equation changes things. Any impact with a object like that is likely to do damage to the bike and rider.

[IT WASN'T ME!]

Thank you everyone for your input and observations. You are right, there's no way to reconstruct the events of the accident, so I will just let it go and move on.