Seriously low oil

[Sweetie Pie]

After letting my bike sit longer than I would have liked over the Winter, my husband helped me change the oil about two months ago (he emptied it and I mostly just watched, but I did pour the new oil in). I did my first big ride of the season two Sundays ago, 179 miles. The bike rode great, no problems all day. I rode it harder than I normally do because at the advice of my husband and a friend I was trying to push the bike towards red line all day just to see what it would do. Then I rode it to work on Tuesday and it made a knocking sound at idle but seemed okay while riding down the road. I rode to work again on Friday and the bike was still knocking so I told my husband about it. We thought maybe I got some bad gas and I should just run it out and fill it with premium. I rode a few more times and talked to a few of you about the knocking and everyone seemed to agree that it sounded like bad gasoline. I finally got my husband to ride the bike last Friday and he didn’t notice a knock, but felt like the bike was vibrating from the tank. I rode with my husband to Brother’s BBQ today and it seemed okay. Then, we rode over to the Toad Tavern (of course) and the vibration was there, really loud and there was almost a chug to the way the bike was running. At one point I thought I was running out of gas so I reached down and flipped over to reserve but it didn’t make any difference. I told my husband & Chris/MetaLord about it when we were stopped at a light and then I proceeded to stall the bike a couple times before I could take off from the light. I’m pretty sure the stalling was just from my stress/nerves about the bike not running right and not actually a problem with the bike. We reached our destination and let the bike cool down because it seemed to be running rather hot. When the bike cooled, we checked the oil. There was barely any oil in the bike!! How in the heck did I burn out most of my oil? This bike only has 3,353 miles on it and it is not leaking oil that I can see. I park in our garage and there are no drips on the floor or on the bike. When we changed the oil we filled it to the factory specifications we found online. I’m certain we did not under-fill the oil. Is this normal? Should I have checked the oil sooner after we changed it to make sure it was filled properly? I’m really surprised by this and I’m trying to learn what to do in the future. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks!

[rforsythe]

Drain whatever's there now into a clean container, and carefully examine it for anything shiny (pieces, particles, etc).

No that isn't normal, and it shouldn't be almost out. Just to ask, when you checked the level the bike was vertical (not leaning on the side stand) and on level ground (not an incline of any kind) right? Check it again in the morning and see if it's the same.

Does the oil in the sight glass look milky at all? Does the coolant in the radiator look anything other than bright green? Do you notice any smoke on startup or as it runs coming out of the exhaust?

If the oil is actually gone, it's either burning, leaking out, or leaking into something else.

[dirkterrell]

Should I have checked the oil sooner after we changed it to make sure it was filled properly? I’m really surprised by this and I’m trying to learn what to do in the future. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks!

You should get in the habit of checking the oil regularly. Does the GS have a dipstick or a sight glass? I always give my bikes with sight glasses a quick check before each ride. Your bike certainly shouldn't be burning large amounts of oil like that. Do you remember how much oil you put in it? Probably should have been something in the neighborhood of 3 quarts. I would fill it up to a safe level measured by dipstick/sight glass and then keep a close eye on it. If it is burning a lot of oil, that's a sign that there is a problem to diagnose.

Dirk

[Sweetie Pie]

Thanks, Ralph & Dirk, for your input. Today was the first chance I had to take the bike out since last Sunday (busy week, rain, excuses, excuses...). I started the bike and let her run for a bit with the choke on as I usually have to do any time I let the bike sit for more than a day or two. She sounded like she was running fine so I took her down the driveway and did my u-turn in the neighborhood and pulled back up to stop in front of my house so I could close the garage door. The bike wouldn't kick into neutral while running!! I had to turn the bike off, then turn the power back on in order to put it in neutral. What the F*#% is that all about?!? I tried this multiple times all with the same result. I sat on the front porch and tried to call Dana twice, but he's out golfing today and not answering his f*#%ing phone. I decided to get back on the bike and took her around the neighborhood and she seemed okay so I took her out of the neighborhood (I don't need neutral to ride, right?). I got as far as Dad Clark & Broadway and as I was approaching the red light I could feel the bike dying. I stopped and immediately stalled. I backed the bike up a bit looking for my best option to get out of the street and decided to pull around into the bicycle lane facing oncoming traffic - I figured I could walk the bike home in that lane if I had to. I got her started again after a bunch of tries and rode in first gear for a bit, then 2nd gear, and it felt fine so I kicked it to 3rd gear and pulled across the street into the normal traffic lane. When I got to the turn lane in front of my neighborhood I had to stop for traffic and the bike died again when I stopped. I coasted across the street to my neighborhood and had enough downhill speed to make it around the corner before I had to hop off and push the bike home. One of my neighbors was nice enough to come over and help me push. Clearly I need to get the bike into a shop. Anyone got any clue what has happened to my beautiful baby girl?:cry:

[Bueller]

Fried the clutch would be my guess. Is it pulling forward when in gear with the clutch pulled in?

[Sweetie Pie]

She almost hops forward when kicking from neutral to 1st, but I don't notice anything going into other gears. Is that what you mean?

[Bueller]

Yep, sounds like your clutch plates warped really bad from the heat of being dry (supposed to be wet in oil).

[Sweetie Pie]

Is that a repair Dana & I can make (perhaps with your help :eyebrows:) or do I need to take it to a shop? Please note, we don't have a shop manual for this bike so whatever we do on our own will be based on what we can find on the internet.

[Bueller]

Yeah, a clutch is pretty simple.

[Devaclis]

Your husband sounds like a dick.

The bike clicks when in neutral, engine of, and rolled forward (No not fro mthe chain, the noise if comming from the motor, smartasses). I will start it tomorrow and see what I can find out. I found you new clutch friction plates for $42 on eGay. They are EBC plates. From everything I have read, if the clutch is gone, those are the only real parts that need to be replaced.

[rforsythe]

Replacing the clutch is good and all...

But if it had the right amount of oil in it before, figuring out where that all went might be good too. :)

[64BonnieLass]

See, Dana lives downstairs, "leveling his warlock" :hump:, and the Pie lives upstairs with Aunt Terri's dogs.

Thank god for the interwebs or you two would never have sex. :)

[Devaclis]

Low oil light never came on. Bike never leaked oil and has never smoked. When I drain the oil I will look fir foreign material. Bike also had a really bad rhythmic vibration you could feel in the tank. It also has a metallic clacking coming from the top end of the motor at idle. Only after the bike warmed up tho

[puckstr]

sell it

[Nick_Ninja]

Low oil light never came on. Bike never leaked oil and has never smoked. When I drain the oil I will look fir foreign material. Bike also had a really bad rhythmic vibration you could feel in the tank. It also has a metallic clacking coming from the top end of the motor at idle. Only after the bike warmed up tho

The noise could be Cam Chain Tensioner -------- but that doesn't answer high oil consumption issues

[jimwallace]

actually it kinda sounds like a broken valve spring.

[Devaclis]

A broken valve spring would not prevent the clutch from disengaging while the motor is running. The noises may be due to the spring but the fact it will not go into neutral while running is the clutch. I am going to pull the oil and check it and then yank the side cover to inspect the clutch. I will get back to you guys on this. Thanks a lot for all of the help so fat

[Devaclis]

Sooooooo
Sweetie pulled off the fairings, pulled the right side housing, and pulled the clutch. The steels were in really good shape. no scoring or warpage. The friction plates looked brand spanking new. No particles in the oil or in the side housing. We put everything back together.

Started the bike. Idled fine. When I pulled in the clutch lever, no problems, no noises. I went to drop it into first and it ground really hard. Tried to go from neutral to 2nd, same thing, hard grinding.

I have no clue as to what is wrong now.

Clutch springs are tensioned per the manual, exactly the right amount of oil, clutch lever is at the correct tension, everything is as it should be.

Any ideas?

[MetaLord 9]

You need House for motorcycles

God, I've gotta stop watch'n so much TV...

[dirkterrell]

I have no clue as to what is wrong now.


It has detected Sweetie's Gixxer envy.

Dirk

[Devaclis]

Sweetie Pie is getting frustrated. We may just spend the unreasonable amount that the Stealers charge and take it to a shop :(

[jimwallace]

clutch cable?

[Devaclis]

Clutch cable is tensioned with no play in it.

[Spy007]

Can you click it into first while the bike is off... then start the bike with it in first and the clutch in to see if it pulls? Then adjust the cable to see if its just not in the right spot... maybe that will help.

[Devaclis]

The GS has an actuator arm that I am trying to do some research on. That could be the issue.

[puckstr]

Sooooooo
Sweetie pulled off the fairings, pulled the right side housing, and pulled the clutch. The steels were in really good shape. no scoring or warpage. The friction plates looked brand spanking new. No particles in the oil or in the side housing. We put everything back together.

Started the bike. Idled fine. When I pulled in the clutch lever, no problems, no noises. I went to drop it into first and it ground really hard. Tried to go from neutral to 2nd, same thing, hard grinding.

I have no clue as to what is wrong now.

Clutch springs are tensioned per the manual, exactly the right amount of oil, clutch lever is at the correct tension, everything is as it should be.

Any ideas?


not trying to be an ass...but it comes naturally for moi....

I had a similar issue when I changed the clutch for the VFR. I found out the hard way that all the Clutch disks are NOT the same.

If the disks are not on the correct place (order...one is different than the rest) it will start in neutral but pull in the clutch and try any gear and it will "CLUNK" stop the engine cold.

hope that helps.

[konichd]

Clutch cable is tensioned with no play in it.

FYI your clutch cable should have some play in it so the clutch isn't engage slightly when the lever is released.

[Devaclis]

Right, normally we keep it that way. We were just making sure that we were getting full release on the clutch. Once we are done messing around it will have the standard play in it :)

[Sortarican]

BTW, What year is Piezy's GS?

I think you're dealing with two issues.
1) Low oil.
After the last oil change did you recheck the oil level after running it a little?
The oil filter will soak up a little oil, but usually not enough to leave it as low as described. Maybe half a pint max.
I've seen it run and it definitly doesn't seem to be burning enough oil to account for that much loss in so few miles.
So the original cause is kind of a mystery.

2) Clutch issues:
When you pulled the clutch disks did you clean them off and give them a little oil bath?
If you ran it low on oil the friction/wear disks could get gunked up with pad material and cooked oil to the point that they're not seperating enough to allow oil between the individual disks.
Also +1 on Steve's comment about confirming the order in which the wear/friction plates are stacked.
If the clutch is the old style worm screw actuated type check that it is functioning and not worn out.

Don't bother with the dealership. We can tear into it this week and figure what's up.
I have most of the calipers, guages, micrometers, etc. you should need to check tolerances for anything out of spec.

[sky_blue]

If I had clacking coming from the top of the engine, I'd check the valve clearances.

If that didn't work I'd search here: http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?board=1.0

[Devaclis]

yeah Jeff. The pads were in good shape. I pulled them all apart and checked each side of all of them. No gunk :) Also, the oil really was not that low. We put in about a quart to top it off to the correct level.

I found a few articles on GSTwins on how to adjust the 3 adjustable areas of the clutch so I will try that tonight.

Thansk for the GS link chica!! I have been on their site all day :)

[MetaLord 9]

um don't you have certificates for stealerships and aren't you always reccommending faster & tfog?

[Devaclis]

I have certificates for a Kawi place way up in Longmont. TFOG is booked out 3 weeks at least.

[cromer611]

Maybe the claw mechanism in the clutch cover isnt grabbing the pin that pulls/pushs the clutch pack apart.

[Stuart Little]

Maybe some jerk named Stuart threw a monkey in your garage with a box of superglue and told him to go apeshit (I'm not the best moto mechanic but I try to help) :)