Spring settings for road riding

[Devaclis]

I have been having a problem when shooting canyons (I call it shooting you guys may call it driving 11 miles an hour) where my back wheel feels like it is sliding out even tho it is not. It feels really odd to me.

My buddy suggested bumping up the stiffness on my spring from the 3 it was set on, to a 5. I did that yesterday but was not able to go anywhere to test it out.

My ?? is this: Will a softer setting make the back end feel squirly? And won't a setting that is too stiff make it jump around and skip when taking tight Corners?

[rybo]

This area is probably the most "art" like in bike maintenance. Unfortunately there is no one suspension setting that will work for everyone and not even for two people who weigh the same.

There are lots of reasons why the back of the bike may do what you are describing. One is spring setting (called preload). A good starting point is to have someone measure a fixed point on the bike (top of the seat, bottom of the fender) when you are not on it, but it is supporting it's own weight. This is the base number. Then sit on the bike, surge load the rear suspension a few times by bouncing on the seat, and then sit stationary on the seat, like you would if you were going to ride. The difference between the numbers should be between 2-3 inches. This is called sag. The worst stock part on the hawk was the rear shock and this alone may be contributing to the sensation you are feeling on the road. A bunch of companies made good aftermarket units. The most popular was the Fox shock. Fox no longer is in the steetbike business, but you can find used ones out there from time to time. Other areas to look at on your bike include rear tire pressure (often overlooked when there are handling problems) and wheel alignment, not really an issue on a single sided swingarm unless it's been crashed (hard).

Best of luck!

Scott

[MattTLS]

Hi Dana,

Glad to see that you're still enjoying the Hawk. Anyway, like Scott said, the Hawk's stock suspension, both front and back were its major faults for aggressive riding -- they're way too soft. If you remember, those forks have a somewhat higher spring rate versus stock as I had cut one or two coils off (which increases the rate). I know it's not the best way to get stiffer springs, but it works. If I were you, yes, I would crank the preload all the way at the rear. The stock shock is too soft for me, and I'm prettly sure you're a little bigger than me. And like previously mentioned, a Fox/Ohlins/Penske shock generally work great right out of the box, or there're a few different CBR900 shocks that can be slightly altered and will improve the Hawk's suspension dramatically from what I have heard. Also, raising the rear helps for most riders. This puts more weight on the front which makes the bike more responsive to steering inputs. Here again if I remember correctly, some models of CBR900 shocks are slightly longer than the stock Hawk shock and work well. Otherwise, most of the aftermarket shocks have adjustable length. Just add a little ride height at a time until you find a setting that works -- too much can make the handling go to crap.

By the way, I got our '88 back and running again and have been riding it almost as much as the TL. I'd even forgotten how much fun the Hawk is, and I had it in my garage all that time just waiting to be ridden.

Anyway, if you need any help, let me know. And if you're interested in any of the aftermarket parts, I've still got them.

Matthew

[Devaclis]

Matt, good to hear from ya :) I have had more fun with this bike than I can put into words. I did up the preload all the way and it made dramatic difference! I do need to take care of the front suspension now. It dives pretty hard. I have a buddy who is gonna take care of that for me :)

I have over #k on her since I got her from you and most of that is canyon riding. This thing just eats it up! I am having some issues with my own riding skills, but the bike will always be able to out perform me :)

[MattTLS]

Also remember that the forks have RaceTech cartridge emulators installed, so you can increase the preload on those to firm up the forks. Right now, they are still set up for my wife, and she's pretty tiny. If you also installed higher rate springs, I'd guess you'd like the setup pretty well.

Matthew

[The GECCO]

This area is probably the most "art" like in bike maintenance. Unfortunately there is no one suspension setting that will work for everyone and not even for two people who weigh the same.

There are lots of reasons why the back of the bike may do what you are describing. One is spring setting (called preload). A good starting point is to have someone measure a fixed point on the bike (top of the seat, bottom of the fender) when you are not on it, but it is supporting it's own weight. This is the base number. Then sit on the bike, surge load the rear suspension a few times by bouncing on the seat, and then sit stationary on the seat, like you would if you were going to ride. The difference between the numbers should be between 2-3 inches. This is called sag. The worst stock part on the hawk was the rear shock and this alone may be contributing to the sensation you are feeling on the road. A bunch of companies made good aftermarket units. The most popular was the Fox shock. Fox no longer is in the steetbike business, but you can find used ones out there from time to time. Other areas to look at on your bike include rear tire pressure (often overlooked when there are handling problems) and wheel alignment, not really an issue on a single sided swingarm unless it's been crashed (hard).

Best of luck!

Scott

2"-3" of sag?!? :o

.75"-1.25" is more like it, the total travel of the rear wheel is probably less than 5 or 6 inches.

[HIX]

I have been having a problem when shooting canyons (I call it shooting you guys may call it driving 11 miles an hour) where my back wheel feels like it is sliding out even tho it is not. It feels really odd to me.

My buddy suggested bumping up the stiffness on my spring from the 3 it was set on, to a 5. I did that yesterday but was not able to go anywhere to test it out.

My ?? is this: Will a softer setting make the back end feel squirly? And won't a setting that is too stiff make it jump around and skip when taking tight Corners?


Not to simplify your question but I always check the most obvious cause so ....

Did you check to ensure that your tires are at the right pressure? All the suspension tweaks in the world won't help you if your tire is low

[Devaclis]

Yeah, I checked before riding then after about 10 miles of warm up. The pressure was fine. That is what I was thinking too.

Matt, how do I adjust the emulators to to stiffen up the front end? I am not finding any detailed articles anywher on this.

Thanks!!!

[MattTLS]

Matt, how do I adjust the emulators to to stiffen up the front end? I am not finding any detailed articles anywher on this.

Thanks!!!

The emulator sits under the fork spring. You have to take off the fork cap, pull out the preload spacer, washer, and spring (slowly spin the spring while removing to make less mess -- the oil runs down the coils), and then use a grab tool of some kind to reach into the fork to pull out the emulator. At this point, you'll probably know just what I'm talking about. The emulator is a brass device that has a low speed bypass hole and a valve for high speed damping that works against a small coil spring. More damping requires more preload on that spring. If I remember correctly, you can use up to seven full turns of preload on the springs, but I'll check if you'd like. I think the emulators are currently set at about two turns of preload, but I don't remember for sure -- it's easy to check though. I believe you can also get stiffer springs for the emulators from Race Tech. I probably have a spare set of instructions for emulators around here somewhere if you'd like a set so that you'd know torque specs, etc.

Matthew

[rybo]

2"-3" of sag?!? :o

.75"-1.25" is more like it, the total travel of the rear wheel is probably less than 5 or 6 inches.

He's got it right, my apoplgies for the bad info

[dgoldan]

Also take a look here for some technical help.
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0006_susp/

[RAGrote]

Set your sag to 25-30 mm and then let your compression and rebound damping do the rest of the work.

If it's trying to kick you out of the seat, increase rebound damping - SLOWLY until it stops doing that. If it's not trying to kick you, decrease rebound until it does and add some.

The key is;
Set the sag
make SMALL adjustments and ONLY ONE at a time
TAKE NOTES.....to know where you are, where you've been and where you're going....

The whole process could take a month, depending on how often you ride.

patience... grasshopper. Take your time and you'll be rewarded with a sweet canyon straffing monster.

[Devaclis]

I have everything tuned finally. It feels pretty good. I do a few hundred miles a week at least so I have had plenty of time to make sure I like it. Thanks for all of the help guys :)