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surfinspacegirl
Fri May 23rd, 2003, 11:53 AM
I need to get a steering damper for the SV to do the race school in June. So far most people are saying go with the Scotts, but it's $400 :shock: Anyone have any other recommendations, or is the Scotts just SO much better that it's worth the mula?

Anonymous
Fri May 23rd, 2003, 12:05 PM
I've never heard a bad thing about it. In fact if I had the cash, that's the damper I would install...

Big-J
Fri May 23rd, 2003, 12:29 PM
There are plenty of goor dampers, but Scotts is the best(from what I hear). I always say, buy the best you could afford!! :P :P :up:

UglyDogRacing
Fri May 23rd, 2003, 12:33 PM
There are plenty of goor dampers, but Scotts is the best(from what I hear). I always say, buy the best you could afford!! :P :P :up:

And why are they the best?

Hanna- come to the next MRA race and check out what most of the racers are using for steering dampers.
I am not a big fan of Scott's dampers because I've seen many of them fall apart. Plus the oil needs to be replaced in them almost yearly.

yakuza
Fri May 23rd, 2003, 12:53 PM
I use a Scotts, and a lot of racers with the MRA do also. I think it has some advantages against damage in a crash, since it doesn't have a long telescoping arm like many of the other styles.

As for frequency of changing the oil, I don't find that to be much of a drawback. Oil will break down when it is repeatedly forced through a constricting orifice, this is why you need to periodically replace your fork and shock oils. I don't see why the Scott's would need more frequent oil changes than any other hydraulic damper.

I honestly don't have a strong opinion either way. I definitely like the compactness and on-the-fly adjustability of the Scotts, and it has survived 2 lowsides totally unscathed. Good enough for me. :up:

Anonymous
Fri May 23rd, 2003, 02:02 PM
when it is repeatedly forced through a constricting orifice :shock: :o He said "constricting orifice" :lol: :lol: :lol:

But seriously, when I asked Mike Fitzgerald what he recommended for the R1, I was surprised when he didn't recommend Scott's - he said (if I remember correctly) they are based on a motocross philosophy, which allows a bit of play when going in a striaght line, which is something you don't want on a sportbike. Maybe it was just a personal thing for him. He recommended Ohlin's for me.

surfinspacegirl
Fri May 23rd, 2003, 02:08 PM
when it is repeatedly forced through a constricting orifice :shock: :o He said "constricting orifice" :lol: :lol: :lol:
No prizes for guessing who's got his head in the gutter :roll: :lol:


But seriously, when I asked Mike Fitzgerald what he recommended for the R1, I was surprised when he didn't recommend Scott's - he said (if I remember correctly) they are based on a motocross philosophy, which allows a bit of play when going in a striaght line, which is something you don't want on a sportbike. Maybe it was just a personal thing for him. He recommended Ohlin's for me.
That's exactly what I've been told, hence the request for others' opinions.....

UglyDogRacing
Fri May 23rd, 2003, 02:10 PM
That's exactly what I've been told, hence the request for others' opinions.....


Your on the right track.....

Big-J
Fri May 23rd, 2003, 03:03 PM
Mike Fitzgerald is a very knowledgeable guy, I would go with what he says!! :up: He was very helpful at PPIR when he did Hoopty's suspension and mine for that matter!!

yakuza
Fri May 23rd, 2003, 03:13 PM
That's exactly what I've been told, hence the request for others' opinions.....


Your on the right track.....

Interesting... so I guess it allows a little bit of play when there is not force being applied to the headset, which could cause a high-speed wobble perhaps? I could see how a "rod" style damper would pretty much negate that problem since there isn't the same slack, assuming it is adjusted correctly.

I dunno, I haven't had any problems with mine, perhaps if I were faster and riding more on the edge it would be something I'd notice.

BladeRider
Fri May 23rd, 2003, 05:43 PM
Hanna,

I was thinking of taking the race school in June as well. I've never felt a need for a damper on my Falco, but if the school requires it, I guess I better put one on. :roll:

I've heard good things about Ohlins as well from my other Aprilia message boards. Of course do you ever hear anything bad about any ohlins product?

Tom

yakuza
Fri May 23rd, 2003, 06:34 PM
FYI, when I took the race school, they didn't require a damper to participate in the school and earn your license, they only required it if you wanted to participate in the "Student" race at the end of the day. So if funds are tight you can probably skip on the damper until you are ready to race. I'd recommend not taking my word for it and checking with Mark Schellinger, though. :)

BladeRider
Fri May 23rd, 2003, 10:08 PM
If I take the school, ya know I'll have to run in the race at the end of the day. :D

I could chintz out and pickup a stock Mille damper, but it's not adjustable. A new replacement one is still around $230 and for another $70 I could get an Ohlins.

Tom

DucBloke
Sun May 25th, 2003, 12:07 AM
If you're on a budget, Storz makes a good adjustable damper. Should be about half of what the Scotts is. You'll need to call them to see if it will fit the SV650.

http://www.storzperf.com/

There's also another brand I found for the SV650, made by Daytona. Here's a link. Call them if they don't have your model on the list. Daytona does make it and the part number is 38245. It should be around $230.00

http://www.sioux-online.com/~dingsda/racing/daytona.html

jwimbauer
Wed May 28th, 2003, 04:19 PM
There are plenty of goor dampers, but Scotts is the best(from what I hear). I always say, buy the best you could afford!! :P :P :up:

I would disagree - The Scotts dampener was designed for MotoX bikes and has an inserted bubble ...

Go with a real steering dampener - like a top or front mounted one. Some can use the side mounted ones but the are more up to be damaged during a crash.

The best are the ones that provide a progessive curve of resistance so you don't have to have it cranked up and still have the "easy" handling of the bike. Yet, in case of fast shakes it will adjust to the speed and force of the shake (kinda like a slow and fast rebound).

Just my input - But of course, I could be wrong ....

BTW - How fast can you change
1. Fairing stay
2. clutch lever
3. brake lever
4. clean the bike (full of Virginia clay)
5. Change right handlebar
6. Change right footpeg

Any guesses? :roll:

UglyDogRacing
Wed May 28th, 2003, 04:28 PM
There are plenty of goor dampers, but Scotts is the best(from what I hear). I always say, buy the best you could afford!! :P :P :up:

I would disagree - The Scotts dampener was designed for MotoX bikes and has an inserted bubble ...

Go with a real steering dampener - like a top or front mounted one. Some can use the side mounted ones but the are more up to be damaged during a crash.

The best are the ones that provide a progessive curve of resistance so you don't have to have it cranked up and still have the "easy" handling of the bike. Yet, in case of fast shakes it will adjust to the speed and force of the shake (kinda like a slow and fast rebound).

Just my input - But of course, I could be wrong ....



http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/images/smiles/sm-thumbup.gif

jontflesh
Wed May 28th, 2003, 04:38 PM
I need to get a steering damper for the SV to do the race school in June. So far most people are saying go with the Scotts, but it's $400 :shock: Anyone have any other recommendations, or is the Scotts just SO much better that it's worth the mula?

1st off..... See you in class!!! :D

Milehigh turned me onto a Hyperpro Top Mount Damper. They are pricey to but so far I am totally happy with it. Adjust on the fly, seems really smooth, I have yet to get another tank slapper since he installed it.

http://www.jontflesh.com/images/parts1.jpg

The only downfall is you have to take the whole thing apart to lift the tank.


Flesh

Anonymous
Wed May 28th, 2003, 04:45 PM
BTW - How fast can you change
1. Fairing stay
2. clutch lever
3. brake lever
4. clean the bike (full of Virginia clay)
5. Change right handlebar
6. Change right footpeg

Any guesses? :roll:

Not sure of the relevance there... But, minus the cleaning of the clay which could feasably take an afternoon to get it all out, probably not long just to bolt on some new components...

Good discussion on the dampers! Lots of info on what the Scotts really are that I didn't know before.

Hoopty
Thu May 29th, 2003, 08:48 AM
Jurgen, what did you guys use on your SV's?

MileHigh, got any info for me on the Hyperpro? :D

Jont- hope to see you and SSG at the race school! :guns:

surfinspacegirl
Thu May 29th, 2003, 09:03 AM
BTW - How fast can you change
1. Fairing stay
2. clutch lever
3. brake lever
4. clean the bike (full of Virginia clay)
5. Change right handlebar
6. Change right footpeg

Any guesses? :roll:

Not sure of the relevance there... But, minus the cleaning of the clay which could feasably take an afternoon to get it all out, probably not long just to bolt on some new components...

Good discussion on the dampers! Lots of info on what the Scotts really are that I didn't know before.

OK, Jurgen, I guess the REAL question is "Who went down?"

surfinspacegirl
Thu May 29th, 2003, 09:06 AM
Jurgen, what did you guys use on your SV's?

MileHigh, got any info for me on the Hyperpro? :D

Jont- hope to see you and SSG at the race school! :guns:

Dave, Glenn Conser mentioned MB sliders which mount to the SV frame and have a steering damper bracket built in. Those, with a ~ $100 Daytona damper makes the whole shebang about $260. I think I'm gonna go down that route....

See ya at the school... :D

jwimbauer
Thu May 29th, 2003, 09:17 AM
BTW - How fast can you change
1. Fairing stay
2. clutch lever
3. brake lever
4. clean the bike (full of Virginia clay)
5. Change right handlebar
6. Change right footpeg

Any guesses? :roll:

Not sure of the relevance there... But, minus the cleaning of the clay which could feasably take an afternoon to get it all out, probably not long just to bolt on some new components...

Good discussion on the dampers! Lots of info on what the Scotts really are that I didn't know before.

OK, Jurgen, I guess the REAL question is "Who went down?"

It was just a reference to our last endurance race at Virginia. I have never seen such a crash fest in my life. 35 teams, 33 crashes, 8 teams went down twice (4 hour endurance). To answer your question, it was Nicky and it took us 11 min to get the bike back on the track. We still finished 5th in class (out of 12) and somewhat in 13th. (out of 35).

On Saturday, there was a "A Superstock" Race and on the last lap it started sprinkling really slightly. Josh Hayes made it through the Roller-Coster and Mark Junge crashed right behind him. After that, the next 12 guys out of the top 15 went down and just catapulted their bikes down the famous roller-coster - simply unbelievable.

I know, it's not really of relevance here - just an entertaining comment.

don't kick me off Ralph .... :roll:

jontflesh
Thu May 29th, 2003, 09:50 AM
Jurgen, what did you guys use on your SV's?

MileHigh, got any info for me on the Hyperpro? :D

Jont- hope to see you and SSG at the race school! :guns:

Oh Milehigh just reccomended the brand and where to get it. http://www.motoextreme.net that is all :)

Yeah I'll be the one pissing on my bike, not hard to miss ;)


Flesh

UglyDogRacing
Thu May 29th, 2003, 09:51 AM
Jurgen, what did you guys use on your SV's?

MileHigh, got any info for me on the Hyperpro? :D

Jont- hope to see you and SSG at the race school! :guns:

Dave, Glenn Conser mentioned MB sliders which mount to the SV frame and have a steering damper bracket built in. Those, with a ~ $100 Daytona damper makes the whole shebang about $260. I think I'm gonna go down that route....

See ya at the school... :D


Jurgen- didn't you just recommend the MB slider setup to Glenn yesterday on the MRA message board? :lol:

rocktboy
Thu May 29th, 2003, 09:53 AM
If you're on a budget, Storz makes a good adjustable damper. Should be about half of what the Scotts is. You'll need to call them to see if it will fit the SV650.

http://www.storzperf.com/

There's also another brand I found for the SV650, made by Daytona. Here's a link. Call them if they don't have your model on the list. Daytona does make it and the part number is 38245. It should be around $230.00

http://www.sioux-online.com/~dingsda/racing/daytona.html


Those are good alternatives and don't forget TOBY dampers. I have those on my R1 and I have no complaints. I know at least a couple racers use them in the world and European circuit. They are just not as popular as some of the bigger (big $$$$) names 8)

UglyDogRacing
Thu May 29th, 2003, 09:57 AM
MileHigh, got any info for me on the Hyperpro? :D




Hyperpro-
http://www.hyperprousa.com/images/99SV650hclpg_web.jpg

Ohlins-
http://www.partsmag.com/news_items/2003-May-Week4/5-23/Ohlins.jpg


Both list for $460 but I can do much better than that on the price.

surfinspacegirl
Thu May 29th, 2003, 09:59 AM
Jurgen, what did you guys use on your SV's?

MileHigh, got any info for me on the Hyperpro? :D

Jont- hope to see you and SSG at the race school! :guns:

Dave, Glenn Conser mentioned MB sliders which mount to the SV frame and have a steering damper bracket built in. Those, with a ~ $100 Daytona damper makes the whole shebang about $260. I think I'm gonna go down that route....

See ya at the school... :D



Jurgen- didn't you just recommend the MB slider setup to Glenn yesterday on the MRA message board? :lol:

:lol:

UglyDogRacing
Thu May 29th, 2003, 10:13 AM
Also, if your stuck on that Scott's design but don't want to fork out that kind of $$$, GPR is another alternative-

http://www.revlimiterracing.com/steering/gpr/gprSuz_02_600.jpg

Big-J
Thu May 29th, 2003, 11:25 AM
There are plenty of goor dampers, but Scotts is the best(from what I hear). I always say, buy the best you could afford!! :P :P :up:

I would disagree - The Scotts dampener was designed for MotoX bikes and has an inserted bubble ...

Go with a real steering dampener - like a top or front mounted one. Some can use the side mounted ones but the are more up to be damaged during a crash.

The best are the ones that provide a progessive curve of resistance so you don't have to have it cranked up and still have the "easy" handling of the bike. Yet, in case of fast shakes it will adjust to the speed and force of the shake (kinda like a slow and fast rebound).

Just my input - But of course, I could be wrong ....

BTW - How fast can you change
1. Fairing stay
2. clutch lever
3. brake lever
4. clean the bike (full of Virginia clay)
5. Change right handlebar
6. Change right footpeg

Any guesses? :roll:


So I guess it's safe to say the Scotts is not the best!! :D :P
The riders I know who have them say they are very happy with it though!! O well!!

yakuza
Thu May 29th, 2003, 11:35 AM
The riders I know who have them say they are very happy with it though!! O well!!

Yup, I've been very happy with mine, but then again I'm about 1/4 as fast as Nicky Wimbauer. :lol: Perhaps as I get faster it'll become a problem, we'll see...

UglyDogRacing
Thu May 29th, 2003, 11:46 AM
So I guess it's safe to say the Scotts is not the best!! :D :P
The riders I know who have them say they are very happy with it though!! O well!!


What makes them happy? The way it looks or have they actually gone into a tank slapper?
A steering damper is like wearing a bullet proof vest; it isn't of any benefit until you get shot at.

yakuza
Thu May 29th, 2003, 12:13 PM
I thought the argument about the Scott's was the bubble that could cause some wobble in straight lines at high speeds, not a propensity to tank-slap.

UglyDogRacing
Thu May 29th, 2003, 12:33 PM
I thought the argument about the Scott's was the bubble that could cause some wobble in straight lines at high speeds, not a propensity to tank-slap.

I didn't say that Scott's has a propensity to cause a tank slapper. The purpose of any steering damper is to mitigate the effects of a tank slapper, wobble, head-shake, oscillations, etc. This only occurs when the front tire is changed from it's normal track. The issue with the Scotts is that it has trouble alleviating this when in straight lines at high speed due to inserted bubble as Jurgen stated.
My argument is how can one say that a steering damper works well without actually experiencing this.

Big-J
Thu May 29th, 2003, 12:34 PM
So I guess it's safe to say the Scotts is not the best!! :D :P
The riders I know who have them say they are very happy with it though!! O well!!


What makes them happy? The way it looks or have they actually gone into a tank slapper?
A steering damper is like wearing a bullet proof vest; it isn't of any benefit until you get shot at.

Well, if they had actually gone into a tank slapper, then that automaticly would show that it didnt work!! So if they are happy with it, then I am assuming the damper is doing its job!

So unlike a vest, you don't have to get shot to know if it works of not!!!!

yakuza
Thu May 29th, 2003, 12:47 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if it's possible to remove the bubble then... anyone know if it's been tried?

Ytry2
Thu May 29th, 2003, 01:05 PM
we put a matrix *like hyper pro* on Shana's SVs650...
I like it so much i think i will get one for my 600... i did not like the scotts....

surfinspacegirl
Thu May 29th, 2003, 01:10 PM
we put a matrix *like hyper pro* on Shana's SVs650...
I like it so much i think i will get one for my 600... i did not like the scotts....

Hey TC, who carries those?

Ytry2
Thu May 29th, 2003, 03:47 PM
we put a matrix *like hyper pro* on Shana's SVs650...
I like it so much i think i will get one for my 600... i did not like the scotts....

Hey TC, who carries those?

Two Brothers - the problem we fouund was that nothing else was in stock
Nobody had anything scotts, gpr, hyper pro, even the stand alone ones that use kits to attach toby, LP etc... the only thing we could get 2 weeks ago was that matix.. It was VERY easy to put on and feels very nice. Instructions were CLEAR and they gave good diagrams ;)

dgoldan
Fri May 30th, 2003, 05:16 PM
Just FYI, I accidentally came across these while looking for a cover for my R1.

http://www.tobefast.com/r198up.htm
Scroll all the way to the bottom

And
http://www.tobefast.com/scotts.htm

Dan

BladeRider
Fri May 30th, 2003, 10:29 PM
The best are the ones that provide a progessive curve of resistance so you don't have to have it cranked up and still have the "easy" handling of the bike. Yet, in case of fast shakes it will adjust to the speed and force of the shake (kinda like a slow and fast rebound).
After doing some searching, so far the only manufacturer I found that advertises this type of action is Hyperpro. The Ohlins advertise as being pressurized so there's no play in them, but no progressive dampening. I found both going for $319 for a Mille (same mounting as my Falco) on different websites. I might step up and give the hyperpro a shot since the variable resistance makes sense to me.

Edit: I did find some info on Matris and they advertise "speed sensitive" dampening. They have three models, M2 - 8 click adjust 2-piece rod, M3 - 9 click adjust, 1-piece rod, M4 - 15 click adj, pressurized chamber, 1-piece rod. All models are speed sensitive.

Tom

Hoopty
Mon Jun 2nd, 2003, 02:53 PM
Blade, where did you find this stuff and was the $319 with mounting hardware?

Anonymous
Mon Jun 2nd, 2003, 05:04 PM
Also, if your stuck on that Scott's design but don't want to fork out that kind of $$$, GPR is another alternative-

http://www.revlimiterracing.com/steering/gpr/gprSuz_02_600.jpg
Mike Applehans just got one of these (this past weekend, I think) and (if I remember correctly) he said it's probably the best damper he's ever used! Same design as the Scott's, but no "bubble", and they'll rebuild it for free.

BladeRider
Tue Jun 3rd, 2003, 09:57 AM
Big-J,

I found the Matris info here http://www.pdq1.co.uk/matris.htm. Hyperpro here http://www.hyperprousa.com/

Here's a review some guy did with a few dampers on an RC51. http://www.rc51.org/tests/dampers/

The $319 I quoted was a hyperpro with the mounting hardware. I can't remember the website I found that on... :( I'll keep digging.

Here's another website that's selling an Ohlins for my Falco for $289 (w/kit) http://www.revlimiterracing.com/steering/steering.html. These guys also sell the gpr damper that spiderman mentioned.

Tom

UglyDogRacing
Tue Jun 3rd, 2003, 10:08 AM
All of these dampers can be purchased at

http://www.gixxer.com/banners/Motoextreme.gif (http://www.motoextreme.net/)

Email or call Rodney and tell him your a member of the CSC club.

sales@motoextreme.net or call toll free 866-788-MOTO

Hoopty
Tue Jun 3rd, 2003, 12:04 PM
Jim, I can't find Hyperpro anywhere on the Moto Extreme webiste. :?

Blade, please let us know if you find that site selling the Hyperpro for $319, that's alot cheaper than I've found. :up:

UglyDogRacing
Tue Jun 3rd, 2003, 12:12 PM
Jim, I can't find Hyperpro anywhere on the Moto Extreme webiste. :?

Blade, please let us know if you find that site selling the Hyperpro for $319, that's alot cheaper than I've found. :up:


Hoopty, they have some in stock and can order any that they don't have. They haven't updated the website yet to show them.

Hoopty
Tue Jun 3rd, 2003, 01:13 PM
Cool, thanks Jim. PS- tell them to get on it!!! :P

BladeRider
Wed Jun 4th, 2003, 09:20 AM
Blade, please let us know if you find that site selling the Hyperpro for $319, that's alot cheaper than I've found. :up:
Okay, I finally dug up the site http://www.starcycle.com/street/hyperpro.html
I noticed most other bikes are closer to the $400 range. They must be lowballing the Mille.

Tom

yakuza
Sat Jun 7th, 2003, 02:13 PM
It looks like the "Scott's versus others" argument was discussed a year or two ago on the WERA forums. A couple people claim that the air bubble gets emulsified in the oil almost immediately, and of course others argue that point. I found it to be an interesting discussion, though. :)

There's also general damper theory and recommendations in the thread, worth a read IMHO.

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?threadid=5884