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PharmerKyle
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 05:12 PM
A new-ish member raised the subject in another thread recently. Let's leave the names and behaviors out of this thread and, instead, have the conversation that the parties in question wished they had already started. Not everyone comes into this sport with full knowledge the rules we break or re-write. I hate to see anyone scared off without spending a few more words on the subject.

I remember my first group ride and the first few times I witnessed double yellow passes. I think I was equally astonished and remember feeling very wary of the riders I had met. It took a while for me to try again, but eventually I got it. I'd like to have an open and honest discussion about the double yellow line, its power over our minds, and what goes into the decision to override it.

So when you you cross over and pass?

When don't you cross over?

Has your skill set and opinion on passing changed since your first 5-10,000 miles?

Sortarican
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 05:26 PM
This is a good subject to bring up.

This weekend was weird, I had half a dozen cars actually wave me past or slow down/pull over to allow a pass under double yellow.
Suprising to say the least.
In the past I've also had drivers get lethally pissed for passing them on one.

I know a lot of pretty safe riders who routinely do it.
Personally I try to be patient and wait for a legal pass, if for no other reason than avoiding tickets.
But if there's a decent line of sight, and the bike I'm on can easily make it, I will pass.
Face it, there's stretches of mountain roads that for one reason or another have no passing zones for miles.
So until people actually start pulling over when they have 20 cars backed up behind them even the cagers are going to occasionally pass on dbl ylw.

Just be careful when you do.

asp_125
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 05:27 PM
When I started riding I was ignorant of the reasons why riders would do a double yellow pass. With accumulated mileage and experience, there are some valid situations where I would pass.

- single lane roads, with good sight lines and out of city limits.
- in the twisties after following slower than normal traffic ie motorhomes, slow cagers, or slow groups of riders
- after all other alternatives have been tried: waving them over, legitimate passing lanes or dotted lines.
- knowing there's a good section of road ahead and I'm following a Winnabego.

I won't pass on solid yellows if:
- conditions are sketchy
- I am already at a good pace, I am not at the track
- I know there will be passing zones ahead, I can wait a couple of minutes
- city limits and or LEO presence (that's a given)

Generally I will respect the solid yellow unless the slow cager or rider moves aside and waves me by.

Nick_Ninja
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 05:33 PM
Sight distance is what dictates crossing the double yellow for me.

Sight distance includes:

Traffic Conditions
Road Conditions
Cops

King Nothing
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 05:50 PM
I have never passed on the double yellow. My bike is too slow.

Sean
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 05:57 PM
+1 to all of the above.
If I can, I'll also take in to consideration who's in the car in front of me. I'll try and be extra careful around cars with kids. Chances are, the driver is going to be extra defensive and may get nervous with a bike shooting by. No need to put anyone else's life in jeopardy.

jimwallace
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 06:21 PM
i will pass on a double yellow when it is clear. that simple. doubles are set based on the average distance needed for the average vehicle (aka car/truck) to pass. motorcycles can pass in a quarter the time/distance. so if its clear i pass. i figure if the person is going to get pissed about me passing they are going to get pissed about me riding on their tail the whole way down. this is all assuming i have an urge to pass. if i am in no hurry and just putzin along well then no worries.

Player 2
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 06:24 PM
Sight distance is what dictates crossing the double yellow for me.

Sight distance includes:

Traffic Conditions
Road Conditions
Cops

:imwithstupid:

tripledigits
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 07:22 PM
Good reasoning here on the double yellow pass. Double yellows seem to be set up for the slowest cars on the road, with many passing opportunities missed because of this.

To take this one step further, I will admit I have done a freeway shoulder pass one time. I was on I-70 in the mountains, and there was a fellow in the left lane pacing a slow car in the right lane. When the right lane car slowed, so did he. This went on for miles, with a gradual line building behind the roadblock. I could see this guy in the left lane looking in his rearview mirror, so I knew he wasn't just brain dead to the situation. After a few more miles of this, I reached my melting point and passed the moving roadblock on the right shoulder. As soon as I did this, the guy in the left lane took off and tried to catch me. I was laughing so hard I began to fog up my helmet. I was on a trip from Las Vegas to Denver, having picked up my Blackbird......

*KEN*
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 07:31 PM
Make sure the car you're passing isn't about to make a left-hand turn...

mtnairlover
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 07:43 PM
It freaked me out too, when I first started riding in groups to see people passing on the double-yellow. I don't think I started doing it with confidence until last year. With that said, I do it for all the reasons mentioned above. Here's reasons when I won't:


sight distance -- when I can see a blind corner coming up and know that even with downshifting and going hard on the throttle won't get me past the vehicle without freaking out the cage driver and myself. This goes for upcoming hills of any height, as well.
leading a group of fairly newer riders, or new-to-group-riding riders...unless, extenuating circumstances call for it, like a cager who seems to be completely oblivious to the world around him/her. In this instance, I'll stick out my arm when passing to let followers know it's ok to pass as well and will put my arm down immediately when I see any possible danger.

bodhizafa
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 08:17 PM
"i will pass on a double yellow when it is clear. that simple." +1

Comes down to how confident I am at the time with the surroundings and who I'm with. I'm usually worried about riding like an ass in a group, peer pressure can be good. Still consider myself quite the newbie.

PharmerKyle
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 08:32 PM
If I can, I'll also take in to consideration who's in the car in front of me. I'll try and be extra careful around cars with kids. Chances are, the driver is going to be extra defensive and may get nervous with a bike shooting by. No need to put anyone else's life in jeopardy.
That's a really good point. I'm not often behind them long enough to do this assessment, but I'll definitely pay more attention to this. I didn't notice any on Sat, but it has come up plenty on Trail Ridge Road rides.

Personally I try to be patient and wait for a legal pass, if for no other reason than avoiding tickets.
Tickets suck! This is a great reason not to do it, or at least, not get caught doing it.

It freaked me out too, when I first started riding in groups to see people passing on the double-yellow. I don't think I started doing it with confidence until last year.

This is what made me want to start the thread. I think this reaction is more the norm than the exception. In order for us to get people over that initial "shock" when they see it, we need to talk about it more openly. Again, I hate to see new, potentially good riders and club members get distressed over this and leave.

My wife and a few other riding acquaintances have made the conscious and determined choice to never pass over a double yellow. They don't hold anyone else up in doing so and often end up in back. I respect this and would hate myself forever for putting pressure on them to pass against their own judgement. Waiting for a conservative rider is much preferred over a post-crash recovery.

The follow up question comes from this idea.

Has anyone ever ridden slowly or refused to pass and NOT had the rest of the group wait for them?

If so, was this a CSC group ride?

I'm hinting at an obvious conclusion.

sky_blue
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 08:35 PM
I won't pass on the double yellow. I wouldn't want a car to decide to pass me based on that diver's judgment, so I won't do the same thing to them. I know patience and courtesy aren't usually part of sportbike riding, but hey, that's just me.

CaptGoodvibes
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 08:36 PM
I do it whenever I want to. Hard to say when that will be. I make sure I can see ahead and consider if the car I'm passing will be turning left. I don't do it if I'm only going to make it past two cars in a line of many... just not worth it.

mtnairlover
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 08:39 PM
Has anyone ever ridden slowly or refused to pass and NOT had the rest of the group wait for them?

If so, was this a CSC group ride?



Nope, not here. People have always waited...always.

PharmerKyle
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 08:53 PM
I won't pass on the double yellow. I wouldn't want a car to decide to pass me based on that diver's judgment, so I won't do the same thing to them. I know patience and courtesy aren't usually part of sportbike riding, but hey, that's just me.
I held on to this idea for years. I only passed cleanly for a long, long time. I had this notion that if I somehow rose above and set a good example, that everyone else would do the same. Drivers & riders both continued to let me down. I was screwing myself out of a good time in the name of an orphaned ideal.

Then I began to re-evaluate what I thought a "clean" pass was. I've seen passes made in legal passing lanes where the passed and oncoming cars both screamed "oh shit" and went for the shoulder because a rider didn't really execute the pass well. I've seen cagers overreact to clean passes simply because the bike was loud or was on them too abruptly.

It's impossible to judge whether a driver will react well to a pass. I realized that the only aspect of a pass that I'd hold myself responsible for was whether I could make it or not. The feelings of the passed are their problem, unless I made an error in execution. I've blown a few passes and had to abort a few times as well. I do feel bad about those. I've seen drivers get pissed at the most well planned and executed passes too. I don't feel bad about those.

This distinction probably makes me an "asshole" in some books. I suppose that's OK. I just got tired of making decisions based on other drivers' unknowns.

firegixx600
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 09:06 PM
The double yellow pass is contraversial, but basically should only be attempted if you are an experienced rider. It sounds stupid that the more experienced you get, the more risks you take, but in actuallity when you know what you are doing, it isn't as dangerous. There are always risks taken, but when taken safely in my opinion is just fine. Illegal-yes, but still can be done safely by an "experienced" rider.

DavidofColorado
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 09:34 PM
Fine have your open discussion without opinions you may not like. I guess that is what your original post was getting at but it seemed a little 1 sided so it wasn't all that open. My original statement stands.

Nick_Ninja
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 09:34 PM
Was my original post not clear enough, Douchebag?

Go fuck around by yourself in "chat" if you just want to hear yourself type.


RIGHT ON PHARMER!! :up: :up: :up: :up:

Nick_Ninja
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 09:36 PM
Fine have your open discussion without opinions you may not like. I guess that is what your original post was getting at but it seemed a little 1 sided so it wasn't all that open. My original statement stands.

You shouldn't pass period. Your tire is mounted on BACKWARDS. You have no idea who you're pissin' off here do you?

Oh ---- and you lie like a rug buddy. Your statement:


I never pass and I can't believe you guys would do such a thing.

Is bullshit. When I went to pass the boat two-up on Trail Ridge I heard that you decided to venture out there in passin land ----------- well after the allowable safe distance had been well used up by the other two bikes in front of you. Your discretion leaves a lot to be desired --- as clearly stated here in your posts.

DavidofColorado
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 09:43 PM
You shouldn't pass period. Your tire is mounted on BACKWARDS. You have no idea who you're pissin' off here do you?

Was on backwards. And I was pissing on the guy who posted up in the other thread about how evil and dangerous everyone was and I let it go but I couldn't go on any longer and had to voice my opinion now since it wasn't going to die. And I am pretty sure that I am pissing off Kyle, you and chad when he reads this. But I'm sure a few others will follow... I knew some wouldn't like what I had to say though. But that is something I have gotten used to.:oops:

Nick_Ninja
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 09:45 PM
Was on backwards. And I was pissing on the guy who posted up in the other thread about how evil and dangerous everyone was and I let it go but I couldn't go on any longer and had to voice my opinion now since it wasn't going to die. And I am pretty sure that I am pissing off Kyle, you and chad when he reads this. But I'm sure a few others will follow... I knew some wouldn't like what I had to say though. But that is something I have gotten used to.:oops:

Go back and read my edited response. And I stand by my statement as well :roll:

DavidofColorado
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 09:47 PM
Is bullshit. When I went to pass the boat two-up on Trail Ridge I heard that you decided to venture out there in passin land ----------- well after the allowable safe distance had been well used up by the other two bikes in front of you. Your discretion leaves a lot to be desired --- as clearly stated here in your posts.

Never passed when it wasn't safe to do so. Anything you "HEAR" is up to you to believe if its true or embellished.

And I wasn't driving any less safe than you were.

Nick_Ninja
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 09:49 PM
Never passed when it wasn't safe to do so. Anything you "HEAR" is up to you to believe if its true or embellished.

And I wasn't driving any less safe than you were.

And who I chose to ride with is my prerogative too. You're off the list.

DavidofColorado
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 09:58 PM
And who I chose to ride with is my prerogative too. You're off the list.
I don't even know what to say there? Don't ride with me again see if care? But don't wait 3 weeks and after the ride to bring it up. Its old news now. Your off my Christmas card list so there.

BTW thanks for ruining a great memory of a ride that I thought went off without a hitch. I guess I wasn't prevy to the knitting circle gossip that was going on afterwards.

chad23
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 10:04 PM
I hope I'm not the Chad in this conversation.
Noone heres need to bring my name up for any reason.
If this tread has anything to do with the ticket I got for passing in a double yellow, make sure you know the story.
I got a ticket for passing in a double yellow less than 2 bike lengthes from the dashed line.
Now do I pass in the DY, when I feel it's suitable and safe to do so, yes i do. And the ticket i got wont stop me, now all I will do different is make sure there are no cops behind me
With that said those of you who dont like it, well hell just dont ride with me, i got enough friend to ride with

YZFRydn
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 10:06 PM
I will pass on a double yellow if:

- I can see quite a few hundred feet ahead
- People driving really slowly
- I am getting a bunch of rocks kicked up at me (Been up Boulder Canyon a couple times where I absolutely get some serious rocks coming at me)
- No LEO within sight (more importantly out of city limits)

I have on an occasion or two passed someone going down 144th/Dillon road if they are going way slow. Other than that I am not too much of a double yellow crosser. Going up Boulder Canyon though I have done most of my passing on those short little straights. People go so slowly up that and I don't know about the rest of you but 30mph on my R6 puts my engine around 225 degrees which is hot on my legs.

People do for some reason drive as far over to the right as possible when I am behind them and I am not in the mood to DY pass. One thing I have started to notice is people get pissed when I ride behind them. I ride towards the left hand side of the lane so I can somewhat see what is ahead of them but I am at least a good two car lengths behind any of them. I think i've gotten more road rage riding safely and legally than I have doing something stupid.

Side Note: The other day I was riding up to Ned and there were two riders behind me on litre bikes. One of them had his girl on the bike only wearing a helmet. I am doing some double line passing and these two guys are following me and there were a couple times where I booked it passed a couple cars. Couldn't believe them. One guy in front of me passed 5 cars in the tunnel. No fucking way.

PharmerKyle
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 10:17 PM
I hope I'm not the Chad in this conversation.
Noone heres need to bring my name up for any reason.
Nope, not you. Thanks for dropping by anyway. Your story is very relevant and maybe you could share a little more. How have you revised your passing strategy since the ticket?

DavidofColorado
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 10:19 PM
I hope I'm not the Chad in this conversation.
Noone heres need to bring my name up for any reason.
If this tread has anything to do with the ticket I got for passing in a double yellow, make sure you know the story.
I got a ticket for passing in a double yellow less than 2 bike lengthes from the dashed line.
Now do I pass in the DY, when I feel it's suitable and safe to do so, yes i do. And the ticket i got wont stop me, now all I will do different is make sure there are no cops behind me
With that said those of you who dont like it, well hell just dont ride with me, i got enough friend to ride with

No his name was like fresh fish or something. He had 5 posts and was complaining by the second one. Good luck with the ticket though.

DavidofColorado
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 10:25 PM
Pharmerkyle I will remove it if you say the magic word. But if you want to call someone names that is up to you. Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me.

Do you know that saying? Huh Crash-cop-caller?


The Merkle incident was all my fault...

...I'm so sorry to everyone involved....

... I instigated the whole Clovis ordeal as well.What are you going to do for an encore?

chad23
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 10:35 PM
Not me
Shit I was feeling the love that someone wanted to talk about me
About how i revised my riding, well I passed a truck in a double yellow 15 mins later, i just looked behind me real well first. no joke
You know I do pass in the DY but I try to make all the proper moves first.
Make sure there is no on comming traffic
and if there is you have PLENTY of room to do so
be patiant
and I never pass in blind corners.
Just be as safe as possible, and make sure the park ranger is not behind you when you do it
It always goes back to the saying "RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE" If you dont like to pass in the Dy than dont and if you dont like to do wheelies than dont and if these are thing you dont or cant tolerate, than dont ride with those that do.
We all need to quit forcing our beliefes on others and do our own shit
There my 2cents

PharmerKyle
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 10:41 PM
Not me
Shit I was feeling the love that someone wanted to talk about me
About how i revised my riding, well I passed a truck in a double yellow 15 mins later, i just looked behind me real well first. no joke
You know I do pass in the DY but I try to make all the proper moves first.
Make sure there is no on comming traffic
and if there is you have PLENTY of room to do so
be patient
and I never pass in blind corners.
Just be as safe as possible, and make sure the park ranger is not behind you when you do it
It always goes back to the saying "RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE" If you dont like to pass in the Dy than dont and if you dont like to do wheelies than dont and if these are thing you dont or cant tolerate, than dont ride with those that do.
We all need to quit forcing our beliefes on others and do our own shit
There my 2cents
Nice!

Ever not waited for someone in your group because they wouldn't DYP?

I didn't think so. n00bs need to hear this kind of stuff before they meet up.

DavidofColorado
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 10:44 PM
K

chad23
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 10:54 PM
I wouldn't say i would not wait for them, but i will not leave our meeting place till the got there and did what ever they needed to do.
I ride with all kind of riders
ones that are way faster than me
ones that are slower
hell i have one friend that will only do the speed limit
And I ride with them all, I always make sure you know where we are going to stop next and noone leaves till everyone arrives.
I would never give anyone shit for the way they choose to ride,unless you are outside your own ability, and not my standards. We all ride for our own pleasures so do so and we'll see you at the meeting spot.
again ride your own ride and we'll all have fun

CaptGoodvibes
Mon Jul 7th, 2008, 11:29 PM
I went on a ride with a couple guys the other weekend...

One who posts here regularly...

Two of us were much more "on it" but we always waited for our friend to catch up if we got too far ahead. Not that we were all that much faster but there were a couple passes that the third guy didn't attempt even though he could have IMO. I was in the middle and found myself trying to send mind control messages to our leader to make more passes but to no avail. Still, the scenery was great so in those slower times when stuck behind traffic, I took the opportunity to look around a bit.

Nick_Ninja
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 06:41 AM
First time user of this funtion on any forum, ever. Well earned, DBoD!

That's better!

Sorry for the interuptions and eruptions. Please continue. This thread is already more than I'd hoped for.

Agitator.

PharmerKyle
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 06:46 AM
Agitator.
You should know. I learned from the best. :up:

mtnairlover
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 07:09 AM
I was in my "happy place" for a bit, but shit, here goes...

Kyle and David...KNOCK IT OFF!!!

David, you do understand the point of this thread, right? So, please (purdy please) respect its intent.

Kyle, I love ya cuz of your nature and appreciate this thread for its intentions...let's keep it this way...please.

On to the thread and its purpose...

Like I said in my first post, I freaked when I was much more newbish and saw other riders passing on the DY. The first thing that came to mind was, "Shit! Why the hell am I riding with these guys? I must be insane!" I got used to the idea, though. Not the idea of breaking the law, but the idea of "safely" passing on a DY. It can be done. Once I did so, it was because of a more seasoned rider and because he was signalling that it was "safe" to pass...and only then.

Now, I pass on the DY when I'm in a group. Funny thing, though, and I thought about this last night, but I don't pass on the DY when I'm by myself. I can't explain why, yet, but it may come to me.

Anyhoo, get back to the intent of this thread...please.

zetaetatheta
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 07:21 AM
I believe it to be much safer to pass slower cars and separate oneself from slow stacked-up traffic while on a bike. Cagers have a way of entering one's tailpipe :) So I pass whenever I can do it to separate myself from congestion no matter what is painted on the road.

chad23
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 07:22 AM
Cathy I have to be honest here, I don't think I have even seen you pass in a DY, ever
You do show a good example of riding in a large group
In smaller groups you are riskier but always seem to ride safely, safer than most I ride with

mtnairlover
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 07:26 AM
Cathy I have to be honest here, I don't think I have even seen you pass in a DY, ever
You do show a good example of riding in a large group
In smaller groups you are riskier but always seem to ride safely, safer than most I ride with

You haven't ridden with me enough yet, Chad. And thanks.:oops:

rybo
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 07:35 AM
Are we going to play nice here or is this thread going to go away? (BTW, nice work Cathy...thanks)

Nick_Ninja
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 07:37 AM
Many times the group mentality takes over in passing situations. I cannot count how many times that I go out to pass knowing the road, the passing distance (DY or not) and the following goofballs insist on making the same pass. It seems like they don't even take the second it takes to evaluate the situation before executing the maneuver. So be it. Like lemmings over the cliff ---- except the other lemmings don't stop and turnaround to deal with the hood ornament carnage. I have my doubts participating in group rides and as a result have become more selective with who I ride with.

chad23
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 07:38 AM
You haven't ridden with me enough yet, Chad. And thanks.:oops:
I was trying to say something nice
I didn't say I was telling the truth
HA

mtnairlover
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 07:44 AM
I was trying to say something nice
I didn't say I was telling the truth
HA

You shouldn't say something about people unless it's the truth...:p


I have my doubts participating in group rides and as a result have become more selective with who I ride with.

This is exactly what a lot of people I ride with tend to do. I'm not as selective (fortunately/unfortunately)...but I do try and offer up advice when on a group ride when it's necessary. I hope and pray after offering up the advice that it was taken well...I have a problem feeling like I'm overstepping my bounds. But, I hate the idea of someone getting hurt because of me...what I said/did, or didn't say or do.

dm_gsxr
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 07:49 AM
Let's say that I'm more likely to pass in a group than by myself. I do DYP on my own but I'm a bit more patient. The nice thing about riding in the GWN, is that pretty much everyone moves over and waves you by even when it's not necessary. When I crossed the border to Washington, the traffic significantly increased and the behavior changed to be more confrontational.

Carl

chad23
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 07:56 AM
You shouldn't say something about people unless it's the truth...:p

SORRY:(



This is exactly what a lot of people I ride with tend to do. I'm not as selective (fortunately/unfortunately)...but I do try and offer up advice when on a group ride when it's necessary. I hope and pray after offering up the advice that it was taken well...I have a problem feeling like I'm overstepping my bounds. But, I hate the idea of someone getting hurt because of me...what I said/did, or didn't say or do.


I used to feel weird offering advice,so now i ask the person I want to give it to if they want some advice. Most say yes and I offer what I have and some have said no and I say nothing. As for me I like getting advice, it can only make me better.
Unless your advice is stupid then I just learn that your stupid

ihavealegohead
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 08:24 AM
I used to feel weird offering advice,so now i ask the person I want to give it to if they want some advice. Most say yes and I offer what I have and some have said no and I say nothing. As for me I like getting advice, it can only make me better.
Unless your advice is stupid then I just learn that your stupid

Advice is cheap but opinions will cost you.

ihavealegohead
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 08:25 AM
And who I chose to ride with is my prerogative too. You're off the list.

Can I be on your list?

Nick_Ninja
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 08:25 AM
Advice is cheap but opinions will cost you.

And opinions are like ass holes ----- everybody has one. :D

Nick_Ninja
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 08:27 AM
Can I be on your list?

Which one? --- I have a few.

ihavealegohead
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 08:29 AM
Generally speaking I never pass on the yellow line. I’m been on bikes for about 20 years, the R6 being my first sport bike. It’s not a matter of skill for me but choice. That said, there are times when I do pass

1) When I’ve had no good twists because the cager in front of me is too slow
2) Exhaust fumes from the cager in front of me.
3) I’m in the middle of no where
4) I’m in Wisconsin
5) I'm trying to keep up with that nutty fudge packer Nick Ninja

Nick_Ninja
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 08:32 AM
Generally speaking I never pass on the yellow line. I’m been on bikes for about 20 years, the R6 being my first sport bike. It’s not a matter of skill for me but choice. That said, there are times when I do pass

1) When I’ve had no good twists because the cager in front of me is too slow
2) Exhaust fumes from the cager in front of me.
3) I’m in the middle of no where
4) I’m in Wisconsin
5) I'm trying to keep up with that nutty fudge packer Nick Ninja



Don't try to patronize me you Canuck. And it's spelled ***k_N**** :roll:

DavidofColorado
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 08:38 AM
This board is all about people who ride, offer advice and are computer savvy. Its great! I'm sorry for my posts earlier they seem harsh. There is a lot of punches I pulled though I wrote a few nasty messages but ended up erasing them before posting. I didn't want to make any one mad at me except BEEP because of the uppity post he made about you guys and your mad skills. So I apologize. Tell PharmerKyle what I said if he ever takes his fingers out of his ears. <--Joke cuzz he put me on his ignore list.

Sortarican
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 09:19 AM
.... One guy in front of me passed 5 cars in the tunnel. No fucking way.

Don't think I'd ever try that one either.
If something went wrong or you misjudge it's nice to have the option of taking the shoulder. DOn't really have that option in a tunnel.


...but there were a couple passes that the third guy didn't attempt even though he could have IMO.... Still, the scenery was great...

Like you said "IMO"...obviously it wasn't OK in his.
Good to hear you didn't do like some and begin riding his tail trying to push him outside his comfort zone.
Sometimes ya gotta just ease off the throttle and enjoy the slow.:turtle:

Devaclis
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 09:24 AM
I really do not like passing on DY. I have been behind slow traffic, in a group, and had other riders pass me and the vehicles ahead on DY. I'll sit back and bide my time. It's not always how fast you get to your destination. It gives me a chance to sit back and enjoy the beautiful scenery. To slow down a little bit.

The GECCO
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 11:16 AM
Can I be on your list?


Which one? --- I have a few.

Legohead - I'm on a couple, I'm sure, these are the ones you DON'T want to be on :lol:

CaptGoodvibes
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 11:52 AM
Like you said "IMO"...obviously it wasn't OK in his.
Good to hear you didn't do like some and begin riding his tail trying to push him outside his comfort zone.
Sometimes ya gotta just ease off the throttle and enjoy the slow.:turtle:

Exactly! I'm more of an encourager than a pressurer. If he doesn't want to ride in a way that he feels uncomfortable, then that's his call and I support that decision 100%. Plus for all I know, his bike was the culprit. Who am I to say what someone else should do anyway?

As a side note, there sure is a lot of drama on this board considering it's mostly men. :crazy: But I read it every day because there is a ton of good info about riding.

fook
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 12:07 PM
heck yes I'll pass on the DY if *I* feel its safe for me to do so. I'm not going to sit behind some camper trailer struggling its way up a hill because a traffic engineer counted on both hands before deciding where the dotted lines need to go.

If I feel I have the proper sight distance and can safely move around the obstacle then I'm going to do it.. unless one of my good friends in uniform happen to be around.

as for group rides and DY passing, each person in the group should still be deciding for themselves alone what is safe. riding beyond your limits and all that jazz still apply.

I'll pass when I need to and theres no emergency that says my partner behind has to stay right on my butt, theres always plenty of places to play catch up.

all that said, wow you guys are a lot of drama. :wtf:

pilot
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 12:28 PM
What I'd like to know is what's up with all the new "zones" of DY? It is easy to tell when you look down and see the old school paint of dashes covered up by a solid line...bummer.

When it comes to giving advice, the advice I'm getting is it's like golf: Don't, it's their shot to play (unless you're a paid caddy, ha). Otherwise, Darwin's law seems to be more popular than other options.

asp_125
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 12:41 PM
What I'd like to know is what's up with all the new "zones" of DY? It is easy to tell when you look down and see the old school paint of dashes covered up by a solid line...bummer.
...

I'm noticing those too, IMO that just encourages more congestion, road rage and DYP since folks can't get around slower traffic. Maybe CDOT and CHP are working together to increase revenue.

pilot
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 01:14 PM
I'm noticing those too, IMO that just encourages more congestion, road rage and DYP since folks can't get around slower traffic. Maybe CDOT and CHP are working together to increase revenue.The ride up from Morrison to Evergreen via Bear Creek is pretty much a waste of time on the weekends:turtle:. With all respect to those who can't drive over 20 in the corners, that can be a bit slow for bikes--even on a touring ride.

I've found the best time to hit the front-range roads is on Sunday after 6 pm. Then most folks are at home watching 60 minutes and doing other stuff.

Nick_Ninja
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 02:03 PM
What I'd like to know is what's up with all the new "zones" of DY? It is easy to tell when you look down and see the old school paint of dashes covered up by a solid line...bummer.

When it comes to giving advice, the advice I'm getting is it's like golf: Don't, it's their shot to play (unless you're a paid caddy, ha). Otherwise, Darwin's law seems to be more popular than other options.

Many good roads here in Colorado have fallen victim to the dreaded DY paint striper machine. The reasoning is multi-fold.

Over the past twenty years not only bikes have increased in horsepower but cars have as well. As a result, what used to be adequate passing distances marked by the DY and Dashed lines have become death traps for unsuspecting motorists. Also traffic congestion has increased tenfold during the same time period. More vehicles occupying the roadway = more idiots competing for the same space.

Secondly there has been a change in demographics. The Peak to Peak is a prime example. when gambling was introduced to Central City and Black hawk the road was found to be inadequate to handle the insanely large numbers of vehicles --- and buses. Add inebriation into the equation then the cocktail becomes almost volcanic in nature.

The elimination of passing zones are determined by statistical analysis data. The more accidents that occur in a given passing zone tend to place that passing zone on the endangered passing zone list. CDOT, in their infinite wisdom decided to DY the complete stretch of road from US 6 and CO119 all the way to CC & BH. There might be one or two places that are still legal places to pass but the majority have been eliminated.

I say that we all start a campaign to SAVE THE PASSING ZONE. Pass legislation that will freeze all dashed lines to remain as such - and tack lane splitting on the bill as well :D

Miles
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 02:22 PM
I do it.
Many motorcyclists do it, and quite safely!
Cagers do it.
I've even seen a bicyclist do it.

Just do the math and decide for yourself. If you don't put anyone else at risk who cares what you do with your own life? Please don't bring up increased insurance premiums either. We all take risks every day (not always on two wheels) and if what's his face can't handle others here who obviously know what they are capable of, maybe he/they should find other folks to ride with, or bite their toungue and leave it at that. I applaud all of you here regarding safely/intelligently passing on the double and I have yet to ride with any of you, but I would happily do so!!!

Sortarican
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 02:33 PM
I say that we all start a campaign to SAVE THE PASSING ZONE.

Didn't CO adopt the Cali law about X number of vehicles behind you on a mountain road and you're SUPPOSED to pull over and let them pass?
That would alleviate a lot of the problem.

Then again, CO said they were going to begin pulling drivers over for hanging in the left lanes at lower than posted speed limits.
Anyone's that driven down to Pueblo from Denver knows that never gets enforced.
Favorite is the section near the Academy. Flat and straight and always 200 people in the left lane doing 50 in a 75.
(I blame the Southies for not going all Charles Bronson vigilante on the f&ckers!)

Drift
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 03:08 PM
Favorite is the section near the Academy. Flat and straight and always 200 people in the left lane doing 50 in a 75.
(I blame the Southies for not going all Charles Bronson vigilante on the f&ckers!)

Damn...I would like to help you brother, but I just sold all my weapons. :cry:

fook
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 03:15 PM
now, imagine that oncoming car wasn't there, who here is going to honestly say they wouldn't scoot on by?

8525

Drift
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 03:23 PM
With no on-coming car, and looking at the shadows for the gap, I would at least leap-frog the two campers...taking them one at a time. That is how I would look at the situation.

Bebop
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 04:52 PM
There are a few things that are hard to tell from this picture. How fast your traveling, how fast are the camper’s traveling? Maybe the picture is throwing off my depth perception but that corner is a little closer than I would like it to be if the campers are going at a good speed. If the car was not there I would at least overtake one camper, not sure about passing two in that picture. Truth be told would probably wait for a better line of sight and pass them both in one shot especially if I am riding with less experienced riders, unless they are doing 30.

Matty
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 04:52 PM
Make sure the car you're passing isn't about to make a left-hand turn...
:imwithstupid:

pretty much like everyone else said, i'll pass when it's clear. then again my clear might not be as defined as others, lol.

The GECCO
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 08:12 PM
and tack lane splitting on the bill as well :D

:cheers:

ChrisCBX
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 08:18 PM
Didn't CO adopt the Cali law about X number of vehicles behind you on a mountain road and you're SUPPOSED to pull over and let them pass?
That would alleviate a lot of the problem.

A lot of moutain road pull out areas for slow moving vehicles need to be used more often. The problem seems to be that nobody wants to admit that they are the "slow" vehicle. All of us have probably followed behind a slow truck, RV or car and watched as they pass one pull out after another.:roll:

On a side note............
I recently followed a motorhome RV down to Longmont from Estes Park. I have NEVER seen an RV go that fast. It was interesting to watch the guy. He must have been a fellow motorhead.:)

Jaydoc
Tue Jul 8th, 2008, 08:33 PM
On a side note............
I recently followed a motorhome RV down to Longmont from Estes Park. I have NEVER seen an RV go that fast. It was interesting to watch the guy. He must have been a fellow motorhead.:)

The wife and I are proud new owners of a used 32 foot RV. You want a lesson in how important setting up for a turn is then drive one of those babies on a curvy road. Talk about feeling the chassis loading and unloading! But if you do it right and apply the same principles you use for riding a bike (or driving a car) on the track then you can really keep up your speed in the curves. If, however, you have no idea what a late apex turn is or how to use all of a lane then you're going to be braking all the time and driving slow in general.

Nick_Ninja
Wed Jul 9th, 2008, 12:28 AM
:cheers:

Any time you're ready to push lane splitting through the state legislature let me know. The position of the AMA and the MRA along with a vise grip of lobby support might just be the thing that the motorcycling community of this state needs.


Side note: I came back from Steamboat this past weekend (7/4) and the experience I had on I-70 was nothing short of FUCKED UP. I could have made it to Idaho Springs from the Eisenhower Tunnel in less than 30 minutes ---- it took over 2 hours. I'm at the point of planting IED's and taking out a few SUV's that seem to be in the way of progress.

pilot
Wed Jul 9th, 2008, 09:01 AM
http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8525&d=1215551681

No Pass.

In this case the trailer (and tow vehicle in front of it) totaling about 36 feet in length will be at the corner entry in 3-4 second while traveling about 40 MPH. Considering that the side marker posts are about 100 feet apart on the straight stretch, that would mean from the rider's POV, that at 60 MPH the rider will make the corner in about 5 seconds. This would not be enough time to reasonably move back in between the two vehicles and stand up and take a bow--especially considering that the front vehicle's driver is:drink:and will brake and decrease the following distance between the two vehicles prior to the following tower braking. Also, the :) is shining brightly and slightly to the right in the face of oncoming traffic--perhaps obscuring their view and perhaps timing. Should, say, Rybo and Scott come flying around the approach at 70 MPH the closing distance between our rider, Valentino, and thus would be fast approaching a head-on crash.

Additionally, upon closer inspection, there is an endangered-species osprey on sitting atop the 16th evergreen to the right and it is about to swoop down on a :turtle: that is ravaging the apple core thrown into the ditch by a previous passer-by. None of this would sit well with the National Park Patrol (same one who spent precious time with Cathy last year) who is sitting just around the corner reading this season's program about the MRA and the Colorado Sportbike Club--thinking what a nice group of R2SL volunteers and safe riders these people are.

All distances and times are estimates. But hey, that's what we do (estimate) every time we ride.

pilot
Wed Jul 9th, 2008, 09:05 AM
Any time you're ready to push lane splitting through the state legislature let me know. The position of the AMA and the MRA along with a vise grip of lobby support might just be the thing that the motorcycling community of this state needs.


Side note: I came back from Steamboat this past weekend (7/4) and the experience I had on I-70 was nothing short of FUCKED UP. I could have made it to Idaho Springs from the Eisenhower Tunnel in less than 30 minutes ---- it took over 2 hours. I'm at the point of planting IED's and taking out a few SUV's that seem to be in the way of progress.Jeff (and everybody else), next time try the old frontage road that goes from around exit 216, I believe, through Silver Plume, then on the highway to Georgetown (2 miles) get back off and ride the old US 6 all the way down through Empire into Idaho Springs. In the past I have taken several riders on this scenic route and general time saver. Less car exhaust. too!

Nick_Ninja
Wed Jul 9th, 2008, 09:16 AM
Jeff (and everybody else), next time try the old frontage road that goes from around exit 216, I believe, through Silver Plume, then on the highway to Georgetown (2 miles) get back off and ride the old US 6 all the way down through Empire into Idaho Springs. In the past I have taken several riders on this scenic route and general time saver. Less car exhaust. too!

We were on the frontage road and it sucked equal ass. :cry:

pilot
Wed Jul 9th, 2008, 09:23 AM
We were on the frontage road and it sucked equal ass. :cry:That calls for Bo-Jo's!:)

Captain Obvious
Wed Jul 9th, 2008, 04:49 PM
I pass. I usually check with new people to see if they will as well. If not, I usually won't pass on a DY if I am in the minority.

I have a group I ride with all the time. Couple of us do, the slower guys sometimes will, but we end up waiting for them anyways.

Buddy and I puled out of a waterfall overlook and he promptly pass a white Durango. I noticed the plates were solid white and marked as "permanent" so waited. Sure enough the Smokey Mtns park ranger lit my buddy up. And only gave him a warning! The gods were smiling that day.

dapper
Wed Jul 9th, 2008, 07:21 PM
Sight distance includes:

Traffic Conditions
Road Conditions
Cops


+ daylight conditions
+ parking lots
+ wildlife



Make sure the car you're passing isn't about to make a left-hand turn...
Yeah, I saw a R1 ram the rear left corner of a minivan in this exact discription. Weird.

And I wasn't driving any less safe than you were.
It's subjective dear David. Leave it alone.

The GECCO
Wed Jul 9th, 2008, 10:05 PM
Any time you're ready to push lane splitting through the state legislature let me know. The position of the AMA and the MRA along with a vise grip of lobby support might just be the thing that the motorcycling community of this state needs.

I'd love to, but between the MRA, CAMA(HPR) and the CMC my free time is nearing non-existent levels. I would be happy to contribute what I can, but it'll be 2009-2010 (MRA prez term is over and hopefully HPR is up and running) before I'd have the time to be the lead on such a project.

455bird
Wed Jul 9th, 2008, 11:30 PM
I'd love to, but between the MRA, CAMA(HPR) and the CMC my free time is nearing non-existent levels. I would be happy to contribute what I can, but it'll be 2009-2010 (MRA prez term is over and hopefully HPR is up and running) before I'd have the time to be the lead on such a project.
If you guys are serious about this, let me know. My sister worked in the senate this last year and has got a few (influential) guys drooling over her. Figure anything will help, and I would love to be able to lane split like I did back in Cali. :)

pilot
Thu Jul 10th, 2008, 12:25 AM
Ahhhhh, the lane splitting debate....

ghost-whiner
Thu Jul 10th, 2008, 01:10 AM
This is coming from a 2 year rider, mind you, but I'd like to say I would never pass on a DY (barring a cager wave on/pull over). In fact I have to say I was rather impressed with the group I rode with on Sunday. There were many times when the agitation of a *cough* mini-van *cough* would hold up all 9 of us. Instead of passing,the leaders just pulled aside to give us some space and then we returned back to the road.

grafix
Thu Jul 10th, 2008, 08:45 PM
I have...will I again...probably not. Its when people get too comfortable on bikes is when people end up getting hurt. Man im still kicking myself in the ass for that and I was lucky to even make it! :\

Bueller
Thu Jul 10th, 2008, 09:50 PM
Its when people get too comfortable on bikes is when people end up getting hurt. Man im still kicking myself in the ass for that and I was lucky to even make it! :\
Being comfortable on your bike is a goal, complacency is another thing.
If it scared you that bad you screwed it up. I pass all the time unless they GTFO. I have cut some close but I am very confident in my pass before I go.

grafix
Thu Jul 10th, 2008, 11:07 PM
Being comfortable on your bike is a goal, complacency is another thing.
If it scared you that bad you screwed it up. I pass all the time unless they GTFO. I have cut some close but I am very confident in my pass before I go.

Yes being comfortable on a bike is a goal, however getting too comfortable is when i see people get hurt...atleast thats how it is back in Ohio. At first you are all cautious, you are defensive...then you start getting comfortable with the speed, with the adrenaline, and you do stupid shit...I have had friends killed because they got "too comfortable." Im not saying being comfortable is a bad thing, im saying it can be corruptive and can make you careless.

bodhizafa
Thu Jul 10th, 2008, 11:25 PM
Be comfortable but stay within yourself. We all make bad decisions, just try to minimize them.

sandboxshooter
Sat Jul 12th, 2008, 09:57 AM
Big Boy (and Girl) rules apply....take the appropriate risk for YOU and deal with any consequences......Sandboxshooter out......(Chad, I really like the comment about stupid advice......lol.) I ALWAYS take advice for the same reasons.

guessinthe2000
Sun Jul 13th, 2008, 12:35 PM
Im pretty sure most of the rv people are not bike rider/or car drivers... so they dont know what to do...

Oldgreen
Sun Jul 13th, 2008, 12:51 PM
A. Lane Splitting-Just got back from Paris and London, lane splitting-YEEEEEHAAAA!!! The cages don't mind it works great and road rage seems non-existent....let's do it. Just because there is a law ok'ing it doesn't mean you have to.
B. Double Yellow Passing-Yes. I was told by a LEO that in Larimer County, the judge throws out impeding tickets almost all the time. I almost always ride the speed limit, so if I catch you on my 636, you are really slow. I seem to get waved by a lot on my sport bike. So I can to 70 mph in 1st gear, my exposure time is nil, if I know the road or can see down it aways, and the vehicle is well below the speed limit, my sight picture is good, road conditions are good.....I go.

PharmerKyle
Wed Aug 27th, 2008, 03:17 PM
been stewing on this little piece of a ride report for a week or so.

Slowed to a near crawl by now, I remember weaving through the debris field so as not to run across anything that would damage a tire, but I was getting ever closer to Mitch lying in the road. John and I soon passed right near him and beyond and stopped our bikes and got off to determine what had happened. A woman beside the road was already on her cell phone calling for help, and several other passenger cars had pulled off the road.
John asked if I was OK and went to see if Mitch could be helped, maybe even to perform CPR on our new riding buddy. He came back to me and said two words I’ll never forget and never want to hear again, “He’s dead.” Mitch had crossed into oncoming traffic while passing a car and slammed head-on into the front of the truck. The fuel tank on his bike exploded causing the fire on the truck, and the rest of the bike exploded into an uncountable number of pieces, resulting in the debris field in the road, with the rear section of the bike stuck under the front of the truck.
One witness told me later that she had told her husband after Mike had passed them then Mitch passed them, “ They look like they are having so much fun, David, you should get a bike HE’S NOT GOING TO MAKE IT!” It happened that quickly.
I wasn't on this ride or personally acuainted with the rider, but we were headed to the same rally that evening by different roads.
http://www.legacy.com/gazette/Obituaries.asp?Page=LifeStory&PersonId=115519162

He certainly wasn't a stupid or thoughtless person as you can tell by his obituary. It's a grim reminder that it only takes one error in judgement or bit of bad luck. This is partly why I'm downsizing to a 500 or a duallie for now.

I rode up to Denver & back today on the ST. I told myself from the beginning that I wasn't going to go wild with speed or do any DYPs. I only passed clean today and kept it down in the 8 pt range. It only hurt a little. This was the source of inspiration for the 9/6 ride that I posted. Take it easy, everybody.