Carbed, V-Twin Questions - What to Expect?

[Raptor]

Recently had Leo Vince HM SBK's, DynoJet Kit, and K&N installed. It was dynoed after. After I got it back, it ran okay for a day or two but then went downhill fast. It wouldn't idle, died at every light, even died out of the blue on the freeway a couple times. Needless to say, right back to the shop it went. When I picked it up the second time, it idles but the RPM's are still very jumpy. It surges between 900 and 1400 RPM when idling at lights, warming up etc.etc.

The shop that did the work told me that this is what to expect with these kind of upgrades done on a carbed bike. I think it still sounds wrong though. Like it's sick. I mean, I know it's going to be different and all that but with a K&N and more open exhaust, why would it feel like the poor thing's struggling like that?

Anyhow, could someone tell me if this is true with a carbed bike, as far as what's to be expected...running and sounding like crap at an idle?? Makes it really hard to understand a couple things. 1) What's the point in "upgrading" so that it sounds like it's downgraded? 2) How does every other Superhawk (or any other carbed, sport v-twin) with aftermarket exhaust seem to have a steadier idle than mine?


Bike still has less than 3,000 miles by the way.

Thanks in advance.

Gary

<side note> Aside from that stuff, it also feels like the top-end is weaker.

[Rednarb]

Man, if it's surging from idle to 9,000 to 14,000 RPM then you have a serious issue. I hope that was a typo.

My SV is a gen 1 with carbs. Also has K&N, jet kit (brand?), and slip-on (not full exhaust). Until it is warm, it will not idle very well, often dropping down to 900 RPM before sputtering and dying. Once warm, it idles just fine and smooth at 1,300 RPM.

I can't attest to the "before the mods function" because the PO did all the mods.

G'luck! Sounds like you're in for a fight with the shop.

[Raptor]

Man, if it's surging from idle to 9,000 to 14,000 RPM then you have a serious issue. I hope that was a typo.

My SV is a gen 1 with carbs. Also has K&N, jet kit (brand?), and slip-on (not full exhaust). Until it is warm, it will not idle very well, often dropping down to 900 RPM before sputtering and dying. Once warm, it idles just fine and smooth at 1,300 RPM.

I can't attest to the "before the mods function" because the PO did all the mods.

G'luck! Sounds like you're in for a fight with the shop.

Yep, typo. Sorry...and thnx for pointing it out. I got "zero-happy".

That's the thing though, yeah, it's a little mroe work to warm her up but this keep going on after it's plenty warm, even with the fans kicking on and off.

[t_jolt]

sounds like she's ethier running to lean or way to rich.

Im going to take a guess and say lean.

I bet you have a vacum leak somewhere. They didnt tighten a hose/clamp enough. and its letting unmetered air into the system

[Sortarican]

No, that's not normal regardless of carbed/injected upgraded or stock.

What year/displacement is it?
Agree that it sounds like a vacuum line issue, carb adjustment, or maybe throttle possition sensor (if it's equipped with one).

Also,
Search the Honda forums for anyone describing similar issues.

[rybo]

Def running lean now. Stock bikes tend to run lean to pass emission in CA, adding airflow with a K&N and a better exhaust just added air to the mix without the benefit of fuel. What you need to have done is you need to put the bike on a dyno with an exhaust gas analyzer to get the jetting right. This is a process and costs some money, but I can recommend Aaron Clark for the work. www.moto-garage.com I can guarantee that the bike will run right (better and stronger than stock) when you get it back.

Please let him know rybo sent you.

Scott

[Raptor]

No, that's not normal regardless of carbed/injected upgraded or stock.

What year/displacement is it?
Agree that it sounds like a vacuum line issue, carb adjustment, or maybe throttle possition sensor (if it's equipped with one).

Also,
Search the Honda forums for anyone describing similar issues.

It's an '03 Superhawk, 996. I've been on a couple other forums and am awaiting feedback there too.

Something else I forgot to mention but your post reminded me, the throttle lags too. It's not snappy like it used to be. When I rev, it bogs for a quick second.

[Raptor]

Def running lean now. Stock bikes tend to run lean to pass emission in CA, adding airflow with a K&N and a better exhaust just added air to the mix without the benefit of fuel. What you need to have done is you need to put the bike on a dyno with an exhaust gas analyzer to get the jetting right. This is a process and costs some money, but I can recommend Aaron Clark for the work. www.moto-garage.com (http://www.moto-garage.com) I can guarantee that the bike will run right (better and stronger than stock) when you get it back.

Please let him know rybo sent you.

Scott

Hi Scott. Sounds like a great suggestion but the problem is, these guys have already been paid to do the same. Paying twice to have the work done right once isn't right, you know?

G.

After I finish my homework, I'm going to go put yet another tank of gas in her (I was initially told it's probably bad gas making it die) and drive her around tonight to see what happens.

[Raptor]

Here's what the Superhawk forum thinks:

http://superhawkforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15386

Similar remarks about the jetting being an involved process.

[Raptor]

Well...the bike's back to dying when I stop at lights and I'm, to put it extremely lightly, not happy at all.

Looks like it's definitely time to go ahead and get the whole 2 month ordeal posted in the shop experiences forum.

G.

[rybo]

I can appreciate that you don't want to pay twice for the same work and that the first shop should make it right, but they haven't, so the question now is do you want your bike to run right or not?

What it sounds like to me is that you bought some product from them and they "installed" the product. It didn't matter if it was right or not, they just wanted it to move out the door. In addition to writing to the shop, I would strongly consider writing to the supplier of the parts. I know for a fact that Leo Vince is a highly customer service driven company, and if they think their product is being poorly represented by a dealer they will be less inclined to do business with that dealer. I'm guessing dynojet is the same way, but don't have enough experience with them to know.

This is the basis of a long standing discussion I've been having with a friend recently about motorcycle shops. Many stores offer products for sale, but don't REALLY know how to optimize that product for their customers. This seems to be your situation. They KNOW a dynojet kit is "good", but they don't really know how to install or use it. After it's put in your bike should run BETTER! not worse, and you should leave that store with a smile knowing that the service you got was in your (and ultimately, their) best interest. If you don't get quality service why WOULDN'T you mail order your stuff and put it on yourself? You'd probably have saved a few bucks in the process and been no worse off.

ok...enough of my rambling. Have a good morning

Scott


Hi Scott. Sounds like a great suggestion but the problem is, these guys have already been paid to do the same. Paying twice to have the work done right once isn't right, you know?

G.

After I finish my homework, I'm going to go put yet another tank of gas in her (I was initially told it's probably bad gas making it die) and drive her around tonight to see what happens.

[jplracing]

This pains me to say but I agree with Scott 100%

The mods you added to the superhawk should have improved not hindered performance and ridablity.

In my opinion you have two options. 1) Continue to fight with the shop that orginally did the work or 2) Bring it to a qualified guy like Clarkie.

Unfortunatly, I too have had these types of problems. The end result was that I took the bike to Aaron and the problems got resolved. I can't give the guy a better recomendation that that!!!

Let us know what happens and do I dare ask what shop?

Joe

[rybo]

This pains me to say but I agree with Scott 100%



And that NEVER happens. Someone quick, go buy a lottery ticket!

See you on the AMU grid this weekend Joe?

[Raptor]

Thanks for the input, Scott and Joe. Both of your's logic is sound in every way. I'm contemplating my course of action now. Contacting Leo Vince and Dyno-Jet is a good idea pending the outcome of this final attempt to get things right.

After all this hassle, the next time I get a call that my bike is "ready", I will not be driving it away with an ounce of confidence. That nagging feeling that something is wrong f'ing sucks to ride with.

There's a report of the entire experience in the appropriate forum.

Thanks again guys.

G.

[jplracing]

And that NEVER happens. Someone quick, go buy a lottery ticket!

See you on the AMU grid this weekend Joe?

Nope not even bringing the Kawi.

I will be working on the TL and hopefully getting everything sorted. I will be running twins O and Vintage O

Assuming everything is successful the kawi will be advertised Monday

Fingers crossed!!!

Joe