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Vance
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 09:31 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen and those of you who I would question applying either of those pleasantries to...

Its 29 days until the General Election...
Its less than that before Colorado distributes its Mail In Ballot (if you signed up for it)(and rememeber if you did you HAVE to use it - you can't skip it and go to the General Election polling places)...

That said...
I'm usually not one to call my shot on anything political because often I prefer creating the debate for the sake of debate because I LOVE to debate...

... but in this case - with so much of EVERYTHING at stake... with the fact that McCain and Palin have opted to stop talking about the issues and started launching character and personal attacks on Obama (often the last refuge of a failed campaign) I'm putting my position out there:

PLEASE - if you have value the future of this nation's prosperity, your own prosperity, your children or future children's chances of not inheriting endless debt and endless wars...
PLEASE Vote for Obama.

John McCain should scare the crap out of you if you have any sense of who this man has become comparative to who he used to be.

He is a shell of his former "maverick" self.
This is a man I used to respect, and even in some respects like as a politician....
But now --- It - no... HE has become a gimmick. He knows it. If you have any radar for lies YOU know it. Just look at how he always falls back on it whenever he's confronted with having NO plans, no issue statements he holds to, no truth to his "straight talk", no intelligible explanation for picking Palin, ANYTHING he finds difficult to answer he pulls the "Maverick" card and smiles at some ridiculously inapporpriate moment.

If that doesn't work...
He busts out with the "when I was in the Hanoi Hilton..." comment trying to gain sympathy and play on some sort of qualification card that he does not have the right to lay claim to.

Being a mediocre pilot and subsequently SHOT DOWN does not make you qualified to be Commander-in-Chief any more than any derogatory comments he makes towards Obama's supposed inexperience in preparation for that role.

Is he a hero for the ordeal that befell him in Vietnam? Yes. That is not in question. But what he is NOT is a person that should be the next President of the United States because of that experience.

Some other things about him that disturb me... besides the fact he's become a two faced Bush cronnie and a traitor to the own ideals he upheld throughout the 80s into the 90s...

Here are a few things you may or may not know about him that particularly bother me:



John McCain voted against establishing a national holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Now he says his position has "evolved," yet he's continued to oppose key civil rights laws.1
McCain opposes a woman's right to choose. He said, "I do not support Roe versus Wade. It should be overturned."2
The Children's Defense Fund rated McCain as the worst senator in Congress for children. He voted against the children's health care bill last year, then defended Bush's veto of the bill.3
He positions himself as pro-environment, but he scored a 0—yes, zero—from the League of Conservation Voters last year.4

Sources:
1. "The Complicated History of John McCain and MLK Day," ABC News, April 3, 2008

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/the-complicated.html


"McCain Facts," ColorOfChange.org, April 4, 2008

http://colorofchange.org/mccain_facts/



2. "McCain says Roe v. Wade should be overturned," MSNBC, February 18, 2007

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17222147/


3. "2007 Children's Defense Fund Action Council® Nonpartisan Congressional Scorecard," February 2008

http://www.childrensdefense.org/site/PageServer?pagename=act_learn_scorecard2007


"McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion," CNN, October 3, 2007

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/03/mccain.interview/



4. "John McCain Gets a Zero Rating for His Environmental Record," Sierra Club, February 28, 2008
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/environment/77913/


AGAIN...

PLEASE... for your own sake... for your children's and/or future children's.... for this country you live in, work in, and hopefully love...

PLEASE....
Vote Obama

Nick_Ninja
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 09:35 AM
"Boulder Liberal Nick_Ninja approves this message."

Vance
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 09:37 AM
Oh yeah... I forgot...

"I'm Vance... and I'm NOT running for office (this time)... I'm not an Obama contributor, campaign volunteer, or in any way affiliated with the Obama campaign... but I for gorram fraking certain approved this message as loudly as I possibly can!"

:D

Devaclis
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 09:44 AM
But what if I am not proponent for having the government run my life for me and tell me what is best/safe/right for me and my family?

Why do you hate freedom?

Nick_Ninja
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 09:45 AM
But what if I am not proponent for having the government run my life for me and tell me what is best/safe/right for me and my family?

Why do you hate freedom?

I don't hate freedom --- I hate members and supporters of the GOP.

pilot
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 09:45 AM
You all would be a lot better off if I was El Presidente! (stirring....)

MetaLord 9
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 10:02 AM
Character attacks have come from both sides and the Obama campaign started or at least participated in them early in the season so that needs to be taken off the table to begin with.

Concerning his military service, I agree that being a war hero does not merit being a political one. I appreciate his service greatly as others do and I'm basing neither my opinion nor my vote on his service, only the fact that he has served at all.

McCain's Maverick reputation was established throughout the 80's & 90's during which you acuse him of being a "Bush Cronie." I agree that is not showing the same tendencies he did during the 2000 campaign when he championed the Straight Talk Express. However, he lost that primary and I think he learned a lesson in doing so. Sometimes you have to swallow your wilder tendencies to afford yourself the chance to make what you think are the right decisions.

To the "Bush Cronie" comment, I would say that the DNC hasn't fielded potlitically impotent canidates over the past 8 years, but I think that the ways in which they've run their campaigns are unimaginative and lazy. Instead of tackling issues at hand and focusing on "how" reasoning as much as their "what" statements (i.e. John Kerry's promise to bring back American jobs from over seas & keep them in the country while also increasing the minimum wage -John, you know those are two inversely related statements, right? how do you plan on doing that?). Instead of fortifying their platforms, in the last three major elections (counting the current one), the DNC has focused on the fact that their candidate is NOT George W. Bush. I fully agree that W. Bush has never become the President for which we had hoped, however, in the past two elections, the DNC hasn't been able to beat him. Kerry could've done it, but his entire platform centered around the "I'm not George W. Bush, so vote for me" strategy. Obama's campaign is trying to paint McCain as a huge Bush cronie who votes w/Bush 90% of the time. Well, first off, most of the congress votes with the President 90% of the time because 90% of those votes are routine maintenance type of bills & roll calls, such as "should we invite the President to give the State of the Union this year" to which everyone votes "yea." What's more is, even if McCain WAS a hardcore Bush Cronie, which he's NOT (and occasionally agreeing with a sitting President has never been a bad way to shore up support from the same party - a problem which McCain was accused of having at the beginning of primary season), if he WERE a huge Bush supporter then the DNC would be facing round three of the DNC vs. W. Bush, a series for which they've got a 0 for 2 record.

To the other points referencing the Children's Defense Fund Action Council & League of Conservation Voters, while they claim to be non-partisan, PAC's like these tend largely to be so slanted in their view of who's a better member of congress and who's done more for me lately, that I always take their "facts" with a grain of salt and force myself to consider the converse to their opinion (even when I agree with them), and I have trouble citing any questionably reputable or largely unheard of (to me) source without doing any research. Not discounting your points here, Vance, but I am wary of your refernces without looking into them first.

I'd love to go on, but I'm afraid that I might end up out on the streets should I do so!

puckstr
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 10:10 AM
Barrak Hussein Obama???:puke:

Best thing is today is the last day to register to vote... Not registered...no voties for you. Suckas
For thoes not registered to vote or not voting... shut the fuck up!!!

Bebop
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 10:18 AM
I refuse to vote for BO http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/tshivley/jitcrunch9.jpg

puckstr
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 10:21 AM
What a great guy looking out for his Brother. His one family.
And you think he will care about the voters. As if!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2590614/Barack-Obamas-lost-brother-found-in-Kenya.html

Barack Obama's 'lost' brother found in Kenya

Senator Barack Obama's long lost brother has been tracked down for the first time living in a shanty town in Kenya, reports claimed.



By Nick Pisa in Rome
Last Updated: 11:52AM BST 21 Aug 2008

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00793/220-obama-brother_793467f.jpg George Hussein Onyango Obama, Senator Barack Obama's long lost brother was tracked down living in a hut on the outskirts of Nairobi Photo: Guy Calaf, Vanity Fair, Italy


The Italian edition of Vanity Fair said that it had found George Hussein Onyango Obama living in a hut in a ramshackle town of Huruma on the outskirts of Nairobi.
Mr Obama, 26, the youngest of the presidential candidate's half-brothers, spoke for the first time about his life, which could not be more different than that of the Democratic contender.
"No-one knows who I am," he told the magazine, before claiming: "I live here on less than a dollar a month."
According to Italy's Vanity Fair his two metre by three metre shack is decorated with football posters of the Italian football giants AC Milan and Inter, as well as a calendar showing exotic beaches of the world.
Vanity Fair also noted that he had a front page newspaper picture of his famous brother - born of the same father as him, Barack Hussein Obama, but to a different mother, named only as Jael.
He told the magazine: "I live like a recluse, no-one knows I exist."
Embarrassed by his penury, he said that he does not does not mention his famous half-brother in conversation.
"If anyone says something about my surname, I say we are not related. I am ashamed," he said.
For ten years George Obama lived rough. However he now hopes to try to sort his life out by starting a course at a local technical college.
He has only met his famous older brother twice - once when he was just five and the last time in 2006 when Senator Obama was on a tour of East Africa and visited Nairobi.
The Illinois senator mentions his brother in his autobiography, describing him in just one passing paragraph as a "beautiful boy with a rounded head".
Of their second meeting, George Obama said: "It was very brief, we spoke for just a few minutes. It was like meeting a complete stranger."
George added he was no longer in contact with his mother and said:"I have had to learn to live and take what I need.
"Huruma is a tough place, last January during the elections there was rioting and six people were hacked to death. The police don't even arrest you they just shoot you.
"I have seen two of my friends killed. I have scars from defending myself with my fists. I am good with my fists."

MikeG
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 10:22 AM
So how about BO's radical associations? William Ayres the unrepentant terrorist and Weather Underground? Rev. Jeramiah Wright, and Father Phleger, saying "God Damn America" and "the U, S K,K,K of A" ?
-How about the fact of BO's senate voting record in which he has voted "present" more than yes or no, and when he was actually man enough to cast a real vote, he has voted with his party 96%, let me repeat that, 96%! And those of you who are in love with this guy believe every word that he says when he tells you he will work hard for bi-partisan solutions. Right... If you can't see past the B/S of BO's rhetoric, then you are obviously brain washed. It's unfortunate that so many think, "if you vote for me all of your wildest dreams will come true"

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/

Vance
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 10:27 AM
Why do you hate freedom?

I think that question should be applied to every politician who believes Roe v. Wade should be overturned.

Why do you hate freedom?

Isn't the truth of Roe v Wade about freedom over one's own body?
Why should a parasitic organism have MORE rights than the host carrying it?
How is THAT freedom?

I'm sorry - but I'd trust a card carrying ACLU member Democrat to give me more plausible freedom to control my body and extend those rights to my fellow man or woman's bodies accordingly than I'd ever trust any right wing bible beating Republican ever will or would.

And come on Puckstr...
Barrak Hussein Obama?
Really?
Are you still trying to scare people because he has a middle name that is supposed to recall some fear mongering and emotional disdain? Give me a fucking break with that lame ass angle. Its tired. Its meaningless.

Nick_Ninja
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 10:28 AM
[quote=MikeG;364371]<snip> It's unfortunate that so many think, "if you vote for me all of your wildest dreams will come true"<snip>[quote]

Or if you vote for 'the other guy' all your worst nightmares will come true. Well we are well on our way for that last statement to become reality.

MikeG
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 10:34 AM
Well it poses an interesting thought if you actually understand the simple fact that the executive branch of the government has absolutely no power to write laws or amendments. The legislative branch, congress, has that power exclusively. So the interesting thought would be how are either going to go about making all these changes as president, when in fact, they are not afforded that power?

puckstr
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 10:37 AM
And come on Puckstr...
Barrak Hussein Obama?
Really?
Are you still trying to scare people because he has a middle name that is supposed to recall some fear mongering and emotional disdain? Give me a fucking break with that lame ass angle. Its tired. Its meaningless.


Meaningless. :slappers: Well it pisses you off

Filo
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 10:40 AM
I hate you all. I have actual proof that all of you, liberal or conservative, regularly have sex with rodents. You also cut in line in front of veterans and push over old people. You kick puppies.








I am Adam and I approve this pack of skewed lies.

puckstr
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 10:41 AM
Adam 08 +10000000

Nick_Ninja
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 10:43 AM
Well it poses an interesting thought if you actually understand the simple fact that the executive branch of the government has absolutely no power to write laws or amendments. The legislative branch, congress, has that power exclusively. So the interesting thought would be how are either going to go about making all these changes as president, when in fact, they are not afforded that power?

Changes can be made with in the law. The current administration has not only abused the power that is granted within the outlines of the Constitution but has clearly over extended those privileges.

http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/2/1/0/1/5/p210154_index.html

MikeG
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 10:53 AM
All that was is a paper for school, somebody's opinion, in my opinion.

TFOGGuys
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:03 AM
*sigh* .... If only Bob Barr were better known.... the Libertarians probably represent the beliefs and values of main stream America better than the career politicians of the two dominant parties. Wake the F*CK UP, America!

http://www.lp.org/platform

Nick_Ninja
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:04 AM
All that was is a paper for school, somebody's opinion, in my opinion.

OK Ace. There is a fact out there that the Bush administration has circumvented the Constitution numerous times using the signing statement (over 400 at last count) to ramrod their agenda up the American publics ass. If you are so naive as to require a through bibliography to the evidence that is out there than here is an article that was published by the Boston Globe. Enjoy :roll:

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Reuters_Photo/2006/05/01/1146456546_0953.jpg

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/04/30/bush_challenges_hundreds_of_laws/

salsashark
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:10 AM
I think that question should be applied to every politician who believes Roe v. Wade should be overturned.

Why do you hate freedom?

Isn't the truth of Roe v Wade about freedom over one's own body?
Why should a parasitic organism have MORE rights than the host carrying it?
How is THAT freedom?

I'm sorry - but I'd trust a card carrying ACLU member Democrat to give me more plausible freedom to control my body and extend those rights to my fellow man or woman's bodies accordingly than I'd ever trust any right wing bible beating Republican ever will or would.

And come on Puckstr...
Barrak Hussein Obama?
Really?
Are you still trying to scare people because he has a middle name that is supposed to recall some fear mongering and emotional disdain? Give me a fucking break with that lame ass angle. Its tired. Its meaningless.

Don't jump down Puckstr's throat while doing the same thing regarding RvW... I love how this comes up every time a demmy wants to bag on the GOP.

Do you honestly believe that the GOP has the power to overturn RvW? Honestly...

And, if they had such power, why wasn't it overturned during the Reagan , Bush sr., or Bush jr. administration.

To clarify, I consider myself a conservative, but I am also pro-choice. Not that I think it is right or moral, but because I don't believe the government should deny proper medical care to women choosing to undergo such a procedure.

puckstr
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:17 AM
Don't jump down Puckstr's throat while doing the same thing regarding RvW... I love how this comes up every time a demmy wants to bag on the GOP.

Do you honestly believe that the GOP has the power to overturn RvW? Honestly...

And, if they had such power, why wasn't it overturned during the Reagan , Bush sr., or Bush jr. administration.

To clarify, I consider myself a conservative, but I am also pro-choice. Not that I think it is right or moral, but because I don't believe the government should deny proper medical care to women choosing to undergo such a procedure.

RvW is a red Herring

The title of the thread is "Stirring the Political Pot"
Yes it is a shit pot and I am just trying to get everyone's goat. Muuuhahaha

And TFOG the parties are FUCKED in the head, Neither the Dems nor the GOP have it correct. The practice of voting for the lesser of two evils is horribly flawed.

The problem is the "Choices" we have.

Oh wait .....
Wait......
WAIT for it.........







Giant Douche or Turd Sandwich? That is always the choices we are given .

CYCLE_MONKEY
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:19 AM
F#ck Oh-Bama. Him and his Un-American wife who's only "proud to be an American" because her unqualified black husband is running the race card for the Presidency.

Do I agree with McCain's stand on abortion or ILLEGAL immigration? F#ck no, but I look at the alternative and cringe.

McCain, baby!

P.S. Martin Luther King was NOT a Dr., just ask anyone who actually EARNED their doctorate in school. I would have voted against the holiday as well. Why not a holiday specifically for Kennedy who was assasinated in office instead? The word is "Pandering".

Devaclis
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:20 AM
Choice is an illusion created between those with power and those without.

Nick_Ninja
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:21 AM
F#ck Oh-Bama. Him and his Un-American wife who's only "proud to be an American" because her unqualified black husband is running the race card for the Presidency.

Do I agree with McCain's stand on abortion or ILLEGAL immigration? F#ck no, but I look at the alternative and cringe.

McCain, baby!

P.S. Martin Luther King was NOT a Dr., just ask anyone who actually EARNED their doctorate in school. I would have voted against the holiday as well. Why not a holiday specifically for Kennedy who was assasinated in office instead? The word is "Pandering".

November 5 you can buy me a victory beer.

CYCLE_MONKEY
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:25 AM
November 5 you can buy me a victory beer.
I'll take that bet! and, regardless, I'll still love ya brother.

Right-wing-Lunatic C_M:)

MetaLord 9
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:29 AM
K, I understand that the Bush administration has worked around the rules on occasion, but so has EVERY President! If Bush's transgressions have been so heinous, why hasn't the dem. party impeaced him? It's not like they don't have the numbers in congress!

vegasbound
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:31 AM
Anyone who would at this point vote for McCain is either uninformed, and idiot, or in serious denial. Nuff said.....

puckstr
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:32 AM
Choice is an illusion created between those with power and those without.


Dana in troubling times such as these I put my complete FAITH in GOD, and let his wisdom guide me.

vegasbound
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:32 AM
F#ck Oh-Bama. Him and his Un-American wife who's only "proud to be an American" because her unqualified black husband is running the race card for the Presidency.

Do I agree with McCain's stand on abortion or ILLEGAL immigration? F#ck no, but I look at the alternative and cringe.

McCain, baby!

P.S. Martin Luther King was NOT a Dr., just ask anyone who actually EARNED their doctorate in school. I would have voted against the holiday as well. Why not a holiday specifically for Kennedy who was assasinated in office instead? The word is "Pandering".


Nice to see racism is alive in well in the good old USA.

What a tool...

Nick_Ninja
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:35 AM
K, I understand that the Bush administration has worked around the rules on occasion, but so has EVERY President! If Bush's transgressions have been so heinous, why hasn't the dem. party impeaced him? It's not like they don't have the numbers in congress!

On occasion. 400 times+ isn't an occasion but a habitual fascist methodology. I believe in the disconnect of Americans too. I also know that there are a boat load of idiots out there that voted for the goof.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/kamiya/2007/05/22/impeachment/

puckstr
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:46 AM
I am waiting for someone to accuse me of being racist because I
WILL NOT vote for Obama. That is ridiculous, my vote , my choice, and I don't have to justify my decision to ANYONE.

BTW I am Registered to vote.

Again for those not Registered to Vote, ha ha SUCK IT

dirkterrell
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:49 AM
the Libertarians probably represent the beliefs and values of main stream America better than the career politicians of the two dominant parties.


I think it boils down to what might be loosely called "morality." Half the country believes the government should tax the hell out of people who are economically successful and give it to people who are not, calling it "compassionate" or "being fair." The other half is driven by their religious beliefs to have the government creating/enforcing laws based on those beliefs. That leaves the Libertarians with a small constituency unfortunately. "Take care of yourself and leave other people alone" is the exact opposite of what most people seem to want to do. We "economic conservatives / social liberals" don't seem to have much voice. :(

Dirk

CYCLE_MONKEY
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:56 AM
Nice to see racism is alive in well in the good old USA.

What a tool...
Has nothing to do with racism. I'd vote for the RIGHT black man: Colin Powell.

How 'bout you suck my dick and then we're both happy?

salsashark
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 11:57 AM
We economic conservatives / social liberals" don't seem to have much voice. :(

Dirk

+1 I couldn't agree more.

One of the most true things put in this thread.

MetaLord 9
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 12:05 PM
Anyone who would at this point vote for McCain is either uninformed, and idiot, or in serious denial. Nuff said.....


Nice to see racism is alive in well in the good old USA.

What a tool...

Call him an tool and me an idiot because of how we act around you or because of the people we are, but once you start dismissing people because of their beliefs and writing them off you're closing your own mind to debate. Name calling is side-stepping the argument.


On occasion. 400 times+ isn't an occasion but a habitual fascist methodology. I believe in the disconnect of Americans too. I also know that there are a boat load of idiots out there that voted for the goof.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/kamiya/2007/05/22/impeachment/
You've gotta realize that those of us who voted for him (yes, us) are picking the lesser of two evils at that point. Had Kerry run a convincing campaign I would have had no problems voting him the better man. He didn't, so I didn't. What's more, 400 times is probably high for a President, but certainly not out of the realm of normalcy if you're consider some of the previous residents of the White House. Again, if you're upset that President Bush wasn't impeached, blame the congress for whom you voted.

The notion that anyone who doesn't agree with me is an idiot and shouldn't be allowed to see the light of day, much less breed, is one that leads down a dangerous and slippery slope. I can rail just as vehemently against anyone who disagrees with me this November, but, in the end, it doesn't make me any more correct than it does them.

Vote for the person you think is the best candidate. Argue for your candidate based on their position on issues that are important to you. Debate intelligently & using accurate facts (as Vance largely did in his original post), and open your mind to the possility that either one of us might be wrong, and I'll sit down, buy you a beer and talk ideas & views all night with ya!


And oh yeah, arguing on teh intarwebz is teh :slappers:!! :D

TFOGGuys
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 12:05 PM
It really is a sad state of affairs when we're faced with either "voting against that sonofabitch!" or having our voices snuffed because the Electoral College operates on a "wiener take all" (deliberate misspelling) basis. Because, realistically, the Libertarians don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting any Electoral votes under the current system.

I propose the abolition of the Electoral College system, as well as a reform of the campaign process, to broaden the actual (as opposed to illusory) choices. Open campaign finance disclosure, limit advertising, indeed limit campaigns to the 90 days prior to the election.

MetaLord 9
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 12:06 PM
Has nothing to do with racism. I'd vote for the RIGHT black man: Colin Powell.

How 'bout you suck my dick and then we're both happy?
Right or wrong, I, like pretty much any woman in the world, want nothing to do with your crotch, Frank! :D

Snowman
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 12:08 PM
November 5 you can buy me a victory beer.A little revolution from time to time is a good thing…

Remember, Remember the 5th of November, the Gunpowder treason and plot. I can think of no reason why the Gunpowder treason should ever be forgot.

Foolds
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 12:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8

A little political ad that will never make it to mainstream tv

Vance
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 12:13 PM
A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having!

puckstr
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 12:13 PM
A little revolution from time to time is a good thing…

Remember, Remember the 5th of November, the Gunpowder treason and plot. I can think of no reason why the Gunpowder treason should ever be forgot.


Excuse me? Does this train go to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave?

puckstr
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 12:15 PM
Voila! In view a humble vaudevillean veteran cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vestitudes of fate. This visage, no mere vinear of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populae now vacant; vansished. However, this valorous visitation of a bygone vexation stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and vittelin vermin vanguarding vice and vouch-safing the violently vicious and veracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengeance, a vendetta, held as a votive not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vicious suaze of verbage veers most verbose. So let me simply add that it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me "V".

TFOGGuys
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 12:15 PM
P.S. Martin Luther King was NOT a Dr., just ask anyone who actually EARNED their doctorate in school.


But Reverend King WAS a Republican....shows how things have changed.

Vance
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 12:21 PM
Voila! In view a humble vaudevillean veteran cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vestitudes of fate. This visage, no mere vinear of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populae now vacant; vansished. However, this valorous visitation of a bygone vexation stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and vittelin vermin vanguarding vice and vouch-safing the violently vicious and veracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengeance, a vendetta, held as a votive not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vicious suaze of verbage veers most verbose. So let me simply add that it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me "V".

Stop stealing from my sig line...
And my future inauguration speech when I become Emperor of Vancelvania...

Rhino
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 01:13 PM
PLEASE - if you have value the future of this nation's prosperity, your own prosperity, your children or future children's chances of not inheriting endless debt and endless wars...
PLEASE Vote for Obama.

AGAIN...

PLEASE... for your own sake... for your children's and/or future children's.... for this country you live in, work in, and hopefully love...

PLEASE....
Vote Obama


Nothing like a little fear mongering to start the week, eh? OMGWTFBBQ!!!!!! IF YOU DON'T DO THIS THE WHOLE WORLD WILL IMPLODE!!!

I'm tired of bullshit "gumdrops and unicorns" promises.

While you cite reasons that you don't like McCain, you don't give a single reason to actually vote for NObama. I don't need to reference his friends and business associates, I've read what HE has said about the issues for years back. In the beginning, he said absolutely NOTHING other than "CHANGE". Now that things have settled and he sees what the popular opinion is on matters, he states his supposed stands on issues.

I dare you to research any issue and see what he says now vs. what he said yesterday, a week ago, 10 years ago.

As he stands up behind the microphone and yammers on about what HE will do...it appears that no one realizes that 99% of what he says, he has absolutely no control over. Short of the idea that he would likely get to appoint several if not dozens of judges to the higher courts. The Heller vs. D.C. was a 5-4 vote. One more with O's voting record and Sortarican woulda been turning in his toys.

If you can "hang the fate of the free world" on R vs. W or any ONE issue for that matter, then somebody turn the lights off and remember to lock up, cuz the party is over.

Do I care that he's black? Nope. Do I care that he's actually a mix that 50% caucasion? Nope. Do I care that he wasn't bold enough to stand up and say "Don't vote for me just because I'm black, but rather my substance (or lack thereof)" Oh hell yes! The number of people who are voting for the novelty factor of "The first BLACK president"...is saddening. Your skin color or chromosome arrangement shouldn't matter.


It bothers me that the dems were split 50-50 between Klinton and O. Now the country is 50-50 Mc vs. O. How United can we be if every decision alienates half the population.


Recently, he has started using the term "politically unpopular" re: Immigration Reform, the bailout. What makes something politically unpopular? When the people call their representatives and say don't vote for the D.R.E.A.M. bill and shut down the switchboards...its the voice of the people. When they call and 99 to 1 say "don't vote for the bailout, we have time to come up with something better" it's the voice of the people. The voice of the people has been and continues to be ignored, and his new catch phrase says to me "The hell with what you want, this will get me votes/money/power." The politicians aren't even worried about losing their jobs while they should be concerned about their necks stretching as they hang from lamp posts in the town square.


If you want socialized healthcare, move to Canada.
If you want to hate the oil companies live in socialism, move to Venezuala.
You want the .gov in control of everything, move to Russia.

Don't fuck up MY country.

I have a lot. More than most. I worked my ass of to get it and didn't step on anyone else's back to get it. Everything tells me he's going to take it away and give to "the less fortunate" i.e. lazy fucks who make bad decisions.


The only benefit I can see to him winning is that we'll hit bottom a lot faster and hopefully get to start over with a clean slate.


Tell us WHY to support him. What makes him the saviour of our land?

Snowman
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 01:15 PM
Stop stealing from my sig line...
And my future inauguration speech when I become Emperor of Vancelvania...Ha I knew it another V...

JustSomeDude
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 01:15 PM
Here are a few things you may or may not know about him that particularly bother me:



John McCain voted against establishing a national holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Now he says his position has "evolved," yet he's continued to oppose key civil rights laws.1
McCain opposes a woman's right to choose. He said, "I do not support Roe versus Wade. It should be overturned."2
The Children's Defense Fund rated McCain as the worst senator in Congress for children. He voted against the children's health care bill last year, then defended Bush's veto of the bill.3
He positions himself as pro-environment, but he scored a 0—yes, zero—from the League of Conservation Voters last year.4

Sources:

1. Who cares. The Federal Gov't is the largest employer in the free world, why do they need to give their workers another day off? Cesar Chavez day anyone? I remember my liberal friends giving me crap for that one. It's not a matter of who a National Holiday is named for, it's the fact of the largest body of workers in this country already having the most excused days off from work. They don't need another.

2. The argument of "right to choose" is the root problem of the argument. You don't consider it a debatable issue, and choose to aggressively try and denounce anyone who opposes your ideology with distorted attacks on "freedom". The debate is simple, do you side for life, or medical choice? It's a cultural decision of supporting life and behavioral responsibility, as opposed to correcting all problems with the slice of a knife (or a drill into a baby's cranial cavity). Regardless, it's not a federal issue, and should be delegated to the states to decide how to handle it.

3. An argument for socialism or nationalized health care by arguing a "child's well being" is a ruse not many here will fall for.

4. Most "green" policies are populist at best with no significant ramifications on people or the environment. The "environmental" restrictions on output set in place by the Gov't only increase manufacturing and services costs, which are passed on to you and me. But if you are for giving your money to the government anyway, I guess this isn't much of a concern.


In addition Vance, comments such as arguing those voting for McCain are ignorant or "uninformed" do nothing to spur open dialogue or debate between the sides. You need to look at both sides objectively to appreciate their cause.

In general, conservatives simply see this election as a huge turning point in American history. We aren't voting for McCain, we're just voting against socialism. There is a large portion of the American population who truly believe that with a little "tweaking", socialism could really work here in a peaceful environment, world history be damned. With his nationalization of the mortgage industry, Bush, and the Democrats and Republicans in the houses are no help. Obama wants to take things further by overhauling education to make it more nationalized than it already is, tack on nationalization of health care, day care, and potentially the oil and gas industry, and the snowball will never be stopped.

As George Calin said, "socialism will come with a smile." Funny that he just didn't mean it in the way it's occuring (as he always predicted some sort of conservative fascism running amok). The government control Obama proposes is all "good" for us; feel good policy for the betterment of society. However, it is obvious to see how it limits freedoms and liberties if you're willing to look beyond its glittering facade. It's just that most people choose to ignore the side effects of socialized beaurcracy, because the warm yumminess they feel inside about the prospects of systems such as "free healthcare" are just too good to be true. Unfortunately, they really are.

Devaclis
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 01:18 PM
Thank You. I would have used a lot more swear words to get the same point across.


Nothing like a little fear mongering to start the week, eh? OMGWTFBBQ!!!!!! IF YOU DON'T DO THIS THE WHOLE WORLD WILL IMPLODE!!!

I'm tired of bullshit "gumdrops and unicorns" promises.

While you cite reasons that you don't like McCain, you don't give a single reason to actually vote for NObama. I don't need to reference his friends and business associates, I've read what HE has said about the issues for years back. In the beginning, he said absolutely NOTHING other than "CHANGE". Now that things have settled and he sees what the popular opinion is on matters, he states his supposed stands on issues.

I dare you to research any issue and see what he says now vs. what he said yesterday, a week ago, 10 years ago.

As he stands up behind the microphone and yammers on about what HE will do...it appears that no one realizes that 99% of what he says, he has absolutely no control over. Short of the idea that he would likely get to appoint several if not dozens of judges to the higher courts. The Heller vs. D.C. was a 5-4 vote. One more with O's voting record and Sortarican woulda been turning in his toys.

If you can "hang the fate of the free world" on R vs. W or any ONE issue for that matter, then somebody turn the lights off and remember to lock up, cuz the party is over.

Do I care that he's black? Nope. Do I care that he's actually a mix that 50% caucasion? Nope. Do I care that he wasn't bold enough to stand up and say "Don't vote for me just because I'm black, but rather my substance (or lack thereof)" Oh hell yes! The number of people who are voting for the novelty factor of "The first BLACK president"...is saddening. Your skin color or chromosome arrangement shouldn't matter.


It bothers me that the dems were split 50-50 between Klinton and O. Now the country is 50-50 Mc vs. O. How United can we be if every decision alienates half the population.


Recently, he has started using the term "politically unpopular" re: Immigration Reform, the bailout. What makes something politically unpopular? When the people call their representatives and say don't vote for the D.R.E.A.M. bill and shut down the switchboards...its the voice of the people. When they call and 99 to 1 say "don't vote for the bailout, we have time to come up with something better" it's the voice of the people. The voice of the people has been and continues to be ignored, and his new catch phrase says to me "The hell with what you want, this will get me votes/money/power." The politicians aren't even worried about losing their jobs while they should be concerned about their necks stretching as they hang from lamp posts in the town square.


If you want socialized healthcare, move to Canada.
If you want to hate the oil companies live in socialism, move to Venezuala.
You want the .gov in control of everything, move to Russia.

Don't fuck up MY country.

I have a lot. More than most. I worked my ass of to get it and didn't step on anyone else's back to get it. Everything tells me he's going to take it away and give to "the less fortunate" i.e. lazy fucks who make bad decisions.


The only benefit I can see to him winning is that we'll hit bottom a lot faster and hopefully get to start over with a clean slate.


Tell us WHY to support him. What makes him the saviour of our land?

zetaetatheta
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 01:21 PM
Obama's got all five of my votes:)

Nick_Ninja
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 01:22 PM
<snip>

It bothers me that the dems were split 50-50 between Klinton and O. Now the country is 50-50 Mc vs. O. How United can we be if every decision alienates half the population.<snip>

That's the beginning of the next civil war right there.

64BonnieLass
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 01:29 PM
Macaroni and Cheese

From Food & Wine (http://www.foodandwine.com/)
Even if you're not feeling nostalgic, you'll find this slightly updated version of an old favorite irresistible. And it's incredibly fast and easy because you don't have to make a sauce or even bake the macaroni.

:slap: Uh oh! Wrong "stir" thread. :D

salsashark
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 01:35 PM
Thank You. I would have used a lot more swear words to get the same point across.

+1 X 10^3

Shea
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 01:55 PM
Obama's got all five of my votes:)

Why engage in a debate about where this country is headed, the role government should play in individual's lives when you can just disregard the electoral process and steal the vote.

So much for your self-proclaimed "honor" sir...

salsashark
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 02:08 PM
This about sums it up...

http://www.jibjab.com/originals/time_for_some_campaignin

CYCLE_MONKEY
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 02:18 PM
Right or wrong, I, like pretty much any woman in the world, want nothing to do with your crotch, Frank! :D
Yeah, they're afraid of the internal damage!:)

TFOGGuys
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 02:23 PM
Yeah, they're afraid of the internal damage!:)


Yes, I suppose that, technically, busting a gut from laughing too hard would qualify as internal damage.... :lol:

Devaclis
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 02:25 PM
http://i37.tinypic.com/zv99tv.jpg

CYCLE_MONKEY
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 02:25 PM
Yes, I suppose that, technically, busting a gut from laughing too hard would qualify as internal damage.... :lol:
Doh!:lol:

DFab
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 03:26 PM
If you want socialized healthcare, move to Canada.
If you want to hate the oil companies live in socialism, move to Venezuala.
You want the .gov in control of everything, move to Russia.

Don't fuck up MY country.

I have a lot. More than most. I worked my ass of to get it and didn't step on anyone else's back to get it. Everything tells me he's going to take it away and

When Obama wins, will you leave the country? Or anybody that peddles that "love it or leave it" bs. After we elect a "socialist", and start down the "slippery slope", will you get the fuck out?

It's OUR country.

Do you make more that 250K a year? Then yes, your taxes will go up. But myself and about 95% of everybody else will get a tax cut.


give to "the less fortunate" i.e. lazy fucks who make bad decisions.
Your view on poverty is laughable.

VFR
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 03:42 PM
Well it poses an interesting thought if you actually understand the simple fact that the executive branch of the government has absolutely no power to write laws or amendments. The legislative branch, congress, has that power exclusively. So the interesting thought would be how are either going to go about making all these changes as president, when in fact, they are not afforded that power?


DING DING DING....President is just a figure head to blame when someone makes a bad decision.

We tried to make a change and the President vetoed it....Blame him

We tried to make a change and the President signed it into power, even though it didn't work...Blame him

dapper
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 03:48 PM
McCain has lots of experience, as Sarah has established. Just because someone has been doing something for a long time, doesn't mean they're doing it well/correctly. I would be happier if McCain was running for VP, as Dick did with George. However, I'm still celebrating that Killery is out of the rat race. (There is a God) Te-he

http://i37.tinypic.com/zv99tv.jpg
+1

pilot
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 03:54 PM
That was a good find Dana.

?
What do you do with 365 used rubbers?

A
Roll it into a tire and call it a good year. Ha.

Devaclis
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 03:58 PM
http://cdn.holytaco.com/www/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/biden_debate_notes_holy_taco.jpg








http://cdn.holytaco.com/www/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/palin_debate_notes_holy_taco.jpg

pilot
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 04:08 PM
That's funny as hell, too. Where did you find that?

Devaclis
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 04:09 PM
haha I found it on a car forum this afternoon :)

MetaLord 9
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 04:09 PM
um, look for the logo stamped in the bottom of each pic, man! :lol:

Sortarican
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 04:17 PM
Barrak Hussein Obama???:puke:

What about John Sidney McCain????:shocked:

Sidney?!....as in Australia?!....and a girl's name to boot?!

This John McCain character sounds like he's some kind of cross dressing foreigner.:slappers:

I don't know about the rest of you, but I for one am not about to stand by and let this country be controlled by some kangaroo queer!

GOOD DAY SIR!
http://cincinnatipas.com/otter.jpg


...I propose the abolition of the Electoral College system....

It is an arcane system put in place by the political power elite to ensure that half educated farmers couldn't rally an unqualified candidate into office.
(And a good part of the last 200 years shows it hasn't worked to eliminate that possibility anyway.)

Hell, the technology is almost there to allow us to become a true democracy instead of a representative republic.

Devaclis
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 04:18 PM
Once you start making sense, people stop listening ^^^^^^

Shea
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 04:20 PM
Once you start making sense, people stop listening ^^^^^^

I'm sorry, were you talking?

Devaclis
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 04:21 PM
Don't quote me. Use quotes "around" me.

Vance
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 04:22 PM
What about John Sidney McCain????:shocked:

Sidney?!....as in Australia?!....and a girl's name to boot?!

This John McCain character sounds like he's some kind of cross dressing foreigner.:slappers:

I don't know about the rest of you, but I for one am not about to stand by and let this country be controlled by some kangaroo queer!

GOOD DAY SIR!
http://cincinnatipas.com/otter.jpg



It is an arcane system put in place by the political power elite to ensure that half educated farmers couldn't rally an unqualified candidate into office.
(And a good part of the last 200 years shows it hasn't worked to eliminate that possibility anyway.)

Hell, the technology is almost there to allow us to become a true democracy instead of a representative republic.

I like Jeff more and more...
Its funny though...
Never thought he'd be the one making sense. Huh. Go figure.

Shea
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 04:26 PM
Hell, the technology is almost there to allow us to become a true democracy instead of a representative republic.

Yeah, bread and circus' bitches. Vote your neighbor into poverty, demand everything for free and run the country into the ground.

We've replaced half-educated farmers with half-educated suburbanites, who don't know how many Supreme Court justices there are (let alone name them) and can barely find "US America" on a map. The reasons for the electoral college system are just as relevant today as they were 221 years ago.

Shea
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 04:27 PM
Don't quote me. Use quotes "around" me.

I'm not playing by your rules bitch! :)

MetaLord 9
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 04:34 PM
With a fully representative system in place, America votes Brad Pitt into office & Jessica Alba as VP.

I can see it now:
"House Bill #44216, Text 1 for Yea, Text 2 for Nay! Vote or Die! Vote or Die!"

fullgrownbear
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 04:36 PM
1. Who cares. The Federal Gov't is the largest employer in the free world, why do they need to give their workers another day off? Cesar Chavez day anyone? I remember my liberal friends giving me crap for that one. It's not a matter of who a National Holiday is named for, it's the fact of the largest body of workers in this country already having the most excused days off from work. They don't need another.

2. The argument of "right to choose" is the root problem of the argument. You don't consider it a debatable issue, and choose to aggressively try and denounce anyone who opposes your ideology with distorted attacks on "freedom". The debate is simple, do you side for life, or medical choice? It's a cultural decision of supporting life and behavioral responsibility, as opposed to correcting all problems with the slice of a knife (or a drill into a baby's cranial cavity). Regardless, it's not a federal issue, and should be delegated to the states to decide how to handle it.

3. An argument for socialism or nationalized health care by arguing a "child's well being" is a ruse not many here will fall for.

4. Most "green" policies are populist at best with no significant ramifications on people or the environment. The "environmental" restrictions on output set in place by the Gov't only increase manufacturing and services costs, which are passed on to you and me. But if you are for giving your money to the government anyway, I guess this isn't much of a concern.


In addition Vance, comments such as arguing those voting for McCain are ignorant or "uninformed" do nothing to spur open dialogue or debate between the sides. You need to look at both sides objectively to appreciate their cause.

In general, conservatives simply see this election as a huge turning point in American history. We aren't voting for McCain, we're just voting against socialism. There is a large portion of the American population who truly believe that with a little "tweaking", socialism could really work here in a peaceful environment, world history be damned. With his nationalization of the mortgage industry, Bush, and the Democrats and Republicans in the houses are no help. Obama wants to take things further by overhauling education to make it more nationalized than it already is, tack on nationalization of health care, day care, and potentially the oil and gas industry, and the snowball will never be stopped.

As George Calin said, "socialism will come with a smile." Funny that he just didn't mean it in the way it's occuring (as he always predicted some sort of conservative fascism running amok). The government control Obama proposes is all "good" for us; feel good policy for the betterment of society. However, it is obvious to see how it limits freedoms and liberties if you're willing to look beyond its glittering facade. It's just that most people choose to ignore the side effects of socialized beaurcracy, because the warm yumminess they feel inside about the prospects of systems such as "free healthcare" are just too good to be true. Unfortunately, they really are.


+1000.

A select few here have a hard time looking at ANY topic objectively. I hate the road runner tactic. Peck your eyes out and run the other direction at 100mph before I can even respond - and If I do respond, they just IGNORE it!

Sortarican
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 04:39 PM
...- and If I do respond, they just IGNORE it!

Huh? Did you say something man?

fullgrownbear
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 04:46 PM
Huh? Did you say something man?

SEE!!?!

dapper
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 05:06 PM
SEE!!?!
Even the cute opinionated right-winger Elisabeth Hasselbeck would be ignored every now and then.
http://images.askmen.com/blogs/entertainment/is-elisabeth-hasselbeck-hot.jpg

King Nothing
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 05:07 PM
Vance, rest assured that I am not swayed by your chicken little tirade. And for the record, I'm not voting FOR McCain, I'm voting AGAINST Obama.

Suki
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 05:22 PM
I will vote for Obama because in a couple years they are going to make a movie about him and Denzel Washington will play the part and i loooooove Denzel!!! :drool: :lol:

and doug, you're a douche bag to waste your vote for AGAINST someone. you might as well as just not vote at all OR just sell your vote on craigslist! :D

Sortarican
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 05:29 PM
Vance, rest assured that I am not swayed by your chicken little tirade. And for the record, I'm not voting FOR McCain, I'm voting AGAINST Obama.

Let make sure I have this straight:

You're not voting "for" a candidate, but rather using your vote "against" a candidate,
because you so fear what you believe that candidate will do to this country should they win the election?
And yet you're calling OTHER people Chicken Little?

Ummmmm, Dougie? The kettle said to tell you that you're black too.

JustSomeDude
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 05:37 PM
When Obama wins, will you leave the country? Or anybody that peddles that "love it or leave it" bs. After we elect a "socialist", and start down the "slippery slope", will you get the fuck out?

I know the post was not directed at me, but I feel inclined to respond...

And interestingly, I quite possibly may be motivated to "get the fuck out". If the People choose that the ideals of Stalin, Chavez, Marx, Jong Il, Napoleon, Mousollini, are best implemented with an American "twist," I may no longer feel comfortable amongst these People. Unlike Alec Baldwin and Tim Robbins, I put my money where my mouth is, as I already have an early Spring 2009 trip to the Ukraine planned to "scope things out" with my brother (aye - motherland!). 12% taxes, and recently free from a communist regime; they certainly appreciate their freedoms and the fruits of capitalism and Jeffersonian style individualism. Unfortunately, individual liberty and the entrepreneurial spirit has been lost on, well, at least 52% of Americans (according to recent polls).

Is that a weak decision and admitting all is lost on the home front? Maybe, but I'd rather work for a system that rewards my labors, than that which penalizes success and supports increasing government growth and entitlements.


Do you make more that 250K a year? Then yes, your taxes will go up. But myself and about 95% of everybody else will get a tax cut.

100% of the people will get a tax cut under McCain's plan. I don't know your tax bracket, but unless you are making under $18,000 a year, you will not see a significant change in your tax return from an Obama vs. McCain plan. But who knows, if $184 more back on your taxes is enough to buy your vote... go for it. Maybe you could buy that Xbox you've always wanted.... used... on Craigslist.

Rhino
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 06:01 PM
When Obama wins, will you leave the country? Or anybody that peddles that "love it or leave it" bs. After we elect a "socialist", and start down the "slippery slope", will you get the fuck out?

It's OUR country.

Do you make more that 250K a year? Then yes, your taxes will go up. But myself and about 95% of everybody else will get a tax cut.


Your view on poverty is laughable.

Boulder, huh? Imagine that.:siesta: You seem irritated. Has the slow economy harshed your mellow? (see? I can generalize too)

Why would I leave? I want front row seats to that disaster movie.:sniper: You might want to consider what happens when the evil "rich" and corporations leave the country due to overtaxing. Not just the loss of incoming tax monies, but the jobs disapearing.
I don't think my statement was anything like "love it or leave it". More along the lines of "We don't offer that service here and it would cost the shareholders too much to add it, but they do right down the street."

While none of them are offering cuts in spending (oh wait, McCain did mention cutting down to the essentials and was chastised for it.) O is offering another round of stimulus checks, regardless of whether you pay into the system or not. Where does that money come from? We are 11.3 TRILLION in the hole. Our entire GDP for 2006 was 13 trillion. He's buying votes.

Before you start about how Klinton had a surplus blah blah blah show me on paper where it was realized and not just projected. Show me how we spent 6 trillion on the war, and not on pork and social programs. While you're at it, look up Clinton, Community Reinvestment Act, Fannie Mae, Obama contributions and then tell me if you know how the economy got here.

I'm under the 250k cap. But it still is a kick in the gut when you do your taxes and 1/3 is taken. More so when you see what its wasted on.

I still don't see how you're going to cut taxes to "less thans" and at the same time give them more benefits. (middle class tax breaks, "free" healthcare)



Unless you've met the people I have that are in the system, you know nothing of my views on poverty. My personal experience could fill a book with the abuse and corruption and blind eyes turned. Do those social programs help some people? Yes. Is it abused by most? Yep. How about this, one simple request. Drug testing to receive benefits. Imagine the riots.

But more and more people are seeing things like this:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92592545
"Nunez, 40, has never worked and has no high school degree."
"People tell Nunez her daughter could get more money in public assistance if she had a child. "A lot of people have told me, 'Why don't your daughter have a kid?'"
This is "poor and hungry" in America:http://media.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2008/july/ohio/nunez200.jpg
This is poor and hungry anywhere else: http://images.google.com/images?q=starving%20children&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi (warning, graphic)


Living off the taxpayer should not be a career choice.

Fuck it, you know what? I hope he wins. The nose is already pointed at the ground. Him getting in would be like hitting the afterburners. Maybe we can salvage something from the wreckage.

I've already made my money and bought my guns.

note to self: pick up M82a1 asap.

schwagman
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 06:30 PM
I fought for this country. I love this country. I am proud to be a Republican. I am voting Republican. There is just too much damn estrogen in this forum so pull up your skirt Nancy. LOL, Have a nice day!

Bebop
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 06:35 PM
And interestingly, I quite possibly may be motivated to "get the fuck out". If the People choose that the ideals of Stalin, Chavez, Marx, Jong Il, Napoleon, Mousollini, are best implemented with an American "twist," I may no longer feel comfortable amongst these People. Unlike Alec Baldwin and Tim Robbins, I put my money where my mouth is, as I already have an early Spring 2009 trip to the Ukraine planned to "scope things out" with my brother (aye - motherland!). 12% taxes, and recently free from a communist regime; they certainly appreciate their freedoms and the fruits of capitalism and Jeffersonian style individualism. Unfortunately, individual liberty and the entrepreneurial spirit has been lost on, well, at least 52% of Americans (according to recent polls).

Communism doesn't work with a global economy but apparently obama and the rest of the Dems want to find that out for themselves as I am sure you would agree.

Anyway what I really wanted to tell you is that I just returned from a two week trip to the Ukraine and liked it and would say that it is not a bad trip for anyone wanting to go. While they do enjoy some new found freedoms right now they need the corruption within to end. The police are horrible (I would recommend not renting a car), customs was ok but I have heard horror stories from one of my family members who have been there before (I would suggest having some bribe money ready when going threw customs). They either did or still do have a socialist healthcare system (don't know for sure because I didn't have to go to the hospital) but I can tell you because I now have a family member who used to live in the Ukraine that a socialist system of health care is not good for the people. Don't expect the servers to be nice, because they haven’t gotten the concept that good service will get you a better tip and vice-versa. People there are crazy ass drivers so be prepared if you are staying in Kiev or Kharkov I would suggest using the subway and walking everywhere, oh and cars have the right of way (they will not stop!!!) and I don't know about you but my mom told me that car beats man every time. One other thing there girls there are beautiful and most are in good shape because they walk 2-3 miles every day and they love for people to give them compliments on how they look.

The Black Knight
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 08:31 PM
Well I just can't help myself. :)

A "Stirring the Political Pot" thread?? Why that's just my game.

When I first opened this thread up, I was greeted with a gigantic font of "Please Vote for Obama". I then went on to read the subsequent reasons why McCain is not fit for the job and is well, dangerous.

We see in bold font this plea:PLEASE - if you have value the future of this nation's prosperity, your own prosperity, your children or future children's chances of not inheriting endless debt and endless wars...
PLEASE Vote for Obama.

Here is where the plot thickens and we find out who really is "dangerous". The future of this nation impinges with a man who is supposedly our only hope. Who is this man? Barack Obama a man who has some of the most radical and extreme connections with complete lunatics and madmen.

First and foremost: Bill Ayers, someone whom Obama not only worked with(99-02) in distributing government money for his radical re-education of children in schools. He also is a known for his violent bombings. Bombings he said he would have like to have done more of. Not to mention that Ayers is a huge promoter of socialism/communism. Also Obama did his first meeting to start of his bid for the senate in Ayers home.

Second: Rev. Wright: This guy really needs no explanation. The man hates "white people". Has said "Goddamn America (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH5ixmT83JE)". Also promoter of "Black Liberation theology". A man very radical, with whom Obama looked to for over 20 years while sitting in his church pues listening to his ideology.

Third: Father Pfleger: Oh this guy is great. Aside from being radical left as well, he's also someone who likes to threaten others? Yep he and his anti-gun buddies Rainbow/PUSH coalition. Protested outside a chicago gun shop, chanting and yelling at the owner of the establishment, "He's the owner of Chuck's. John Riggio. R-i-g-g-i-o. We're going to find you and snuff you out… you know you're going to hide like a rat. You're going to hide but like a rat we're going to catch you and pull you out." Hmmm, seems like a portrait of self-composure, kindheartedness and a representative of the catholic church(who by the way denounce him).

Fourth: Obama's admitted Muslim connections. Regardless what he says, he has mentioned in his book Audacity of Hope: " I will stand with them(muslims/arabs) should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

I could go on and on, about how he views Iran as a tiny and insignificant country. Wanting to sit down with rogue dicators without pre-conditions. His blatant comments about cutting funding for our troops. And ripping on our troops saying this about their work in in the middle east: "and that requires us to have enough troops that we are not just air raiding villages and killing civilians".

He wants to get rid of funding for missle defense systems, calling them wasteful and systems that don't work. Well I don't think our defense department would develope systems that don't work. I mean that's why they pay the guys who develope these things the big bucks, to get it right.

I'm not voting for Obama, because he's a "dangerous" man, with ties to some of the most horrific individuals in america. He promotes socialism/communism through his "95% get tax cuts", but proposes "over 1 Trillion+ in new programs". Obama is dangerous because he has no clue as to what he's doing. He's good at running his mouth. Yet his strategies and solutions to problems are vaccuous at best. His only card agasint McCain he has is trying to tie McCain to Bush and the "last 8 years". When Obama "if" elected is more that willing to give Socialism and Communism a try.

We worked so hard to defeat this kind of economic point of view and ideology. Socialism fails each time it's tried and applied. Because just like in Soviet Russia, only the wealthy will have the money, and the common-man will be held behind walls with machine guns and when and where they get to live and breathe. Sounds fun doesn't it??

Obama is the most left-leaning and liberal candidate to date. His ideology is of turning America from a Republic to a Socialist state. Obama speaks of "8 years of failed policy" yet his way of thinking, would be guiding us down a dark path to eventual ruin. Because everytime Socialism/Communism gets put to the test it fails. And the thing that kills me is that over half the population of America, still wants to give it a go? I mean are you people freaking kidding me??

Who is more dangerous? McCain for wanting to at least try to reform the greed and corruption. Believes in the American way and wants to restore it to the way it was. By keeping corporations and small business thriving, and in turn keeping our jobs here in America. Instead of them getting sent abroad.

Or

Obama and his socialistic and commie ways of reducing America to another nation lost to the pages of history of failed economic strategies. Who wants to take money from those who have "earned it" and redistribute it to those who "sit on their butts". He wants to run off companies who employ millions. And crush the little man who is trying to become an entrapreneur and have his business get off the ground.

Vote for whomever you see fit. Vote for whomever you believe will do their job they promise. Just don't complain when one decides to try tactics of Soviet Russia and plunge the US in a Marxist society.

So I'm going to revise the plea:
PLEASE - if you value the future of this nation's prosperity, your own prosperity and the ability to watch your dreams grow, your children or future children's chances of finally winning a war on terrorism and being able to secure a safer tomorrow for generations to come, for standing against what is right and wrong and not backing down when evil rears it's ugly head and for believeing in a America that used to be, could be and will be.

PLEASE Vote for McCain.

The Black Knight
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 08:34 PM
I got one more for you all:

here's a pic of Bill Ayers, standing on none other than?? what's that?? our American Flag

Rhino
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 08:45 PM
Well I just can't help myself. :)


I'm new to this. Who buys the beer? Is it by the word count or seniority or something?

:cheers:

Filo
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 08:47 PM
Boy, both sides here are doing a good job of spewing a bunch of over generalized bullshit and false dichotomies. The world as we know it will not end if {Obama, McCain} gets elected. Those of you who are threatening to leave if {Obama, McCain} gets elected will still be here bitching in four years. It will not be the end of the USA as we know it if {Obama, McCain} gets elected. Stop watching the TV ads (which are chock full of half truths at best and out right lies at worst) long enough to formulate a rational opinion on some isse.

Here is an idea. Decide if the economy, security or so called values matters most to you (please try to come up with more than just values). Weigh each candidates stance on those three categories. Decide which is most in line with your views and vote that way. Stop spewing personalized vitriolic bullshit that you hear on talk radio or read in the New York Times because this is the future of your country, not some pseudo-news/entertainment show that you catch on your drive into work or after the football game. Try to act like you are all voting age. Throw off the yoke of Nixonian and Rovian politics, turn on your brains, and debate like civilized human beings, not a bunch of hedonistic monkeys.
The fact is neither choice is perfect, but they are both better than what we currently have.

Here, have my review:

McCain has a history of bipartisanship; Obama has the majority in Congress. Both will be better than Bush at circumventing partisanship and getting something done.

Domestically, McCain is an economic liberal who favors big tax cuts and a simpler tax code, and minimal government intervention in big business. Obama is into subsidies, targeted tax breaks, and government improving peoples lives. McCain is into entrepreneur and business tax relief; Obama is into average worker tax relief.

Further domestically, health care is the biggest difference (neither seems to have much of a clue about the economy). Obama wants universal coverage; McCain hopes to drive down costs through competition. Most voters favor Obama's plan, but it will be really, really expensive.

Foreign policy will be about a wash: McCain will take a tougher stance on China and Russia, but Obama isn't a push over on those. In theory they are worlds apart on Iraq. In practice they will both withdraw troops within three years probably. McCain wants to spend more on the military than Obama and is more likely to invade Iran over nukes.

Abortion shouldn't matter, whatever your stance on it. It has been argued since Roe V Wade and neither candidate will be able to overturn it or make it more entrenched. And, as so called discussion on this forum shows, there is no real chance of a resolution anyway.

My stock portfolio is down 5% today, 15% since last Tuesday, 44% on the year. I think the candidate who convinces the American people he gets that the best will be the one who wins.

(Most factual information in this post comes from The Economist).

mtnairlover
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 08:51 PM
I was treated to lunch today at my new job by the Director of Education and my supervisors. It was a good thing to just sit and listen to people talk. Inevitably, the talk went the way of politics and investing, etc. I kinda got an idea of who was affiliated to what party, but without them actually saying as much...it was extremely subtle. (I love observing people) Anyhoo, so the discussion on money was the fact that to be honest, we're in this huge market mess because of the greed of people. Now, I'm not pointing fingers at one party or another, but there are many, many people who play the system very well...not just people who don't want to work and play the social service system, but corporations that know how to get around loop-holes, too, to get more money. Well, it finally caught up with a good many of them these past couple of weeks, hasn't it?

There has to be a significant change in that system as well. Obviously, it isn't working now, is it?

Which party would do a better job of fixing it? I dunno, but I can tell you that I'm quite gun-shy at this point. I thought I had faith way back in '01...it's pretty much dried up....as much as I tried to overlook and forgive...I'm still feeling like the 'average person' is getting raked over the coals.

I did a little check on the "tax analysis" of both party's proposed tax cuts and this is what most every organization is saying about the cuts...

The TPC also analyzed the impact of the McCain and Obama tax proposals on the deficit. Compared with current tax policy — in other words, if the “temporary” Bush tax cuts are considered permanent — “Sen. Obama’s proposals would raise $800 billion and Sen. McCain’s proposals lose $600 billion” over the first 10 years.


(Under the rules of its analysis, the Tax Policy Center did not adjust deficit estimates to account for spending cuts proposed by either campaign.)


Even in normal times, such campaign proposals would be subject to great change once a candidate takes office and has to compromise with Congress. And again, these are anything but normal times. Under these new conditions, no one can say with any certainty what proposals McCain or Obama would advocate once in office.


But what they’ve proposed in the past tells us that McCain has now embraced the Reaganomics approach that he rejected back in his “maverick” days, and that under Obama, tax increases would be far more targeted and limited than his opponents have tried to claim in this campaign. His general approach — trying to ease the burden on low- and middle-income households, while trying to bring the deficit under control — seems the wiser course no matter what the future may hold.
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/10/05/taxesed_1005.html

I also wanted to share another analysis...also to prove I'm not trying to show any bias...

Although both candidates have at times stressed fiscal responsibility, their specific non-health tax proposals would reduce tax revenues by an estimated $4.2 trillion (McCain) and $2.8 trillion (Obama) over the next 10 years. Both candidates argue that their proposals should be scored against a “current policy” baseline instead of current law. Such a baseline assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts would be extended and the AMT patch made permanent. Against current policy, Senator Obama’s proposals would raise $800 billion and Senator McCain’s proposals lose $600 billion.



The two candidates’ tax plans would have sharply different distributional effects. Senator McCain’s tax cuts would primarily benefit those with very high incomes, almost all of whom would receive large tax cuts that would, on average, raise their after-tax incomes by more than twice the average for all households. Many fewer households at the bottom of the income distribution would get tax cuts and those tax cuts would be small as a share of after-tax income. In marked contrast, Senator Obama offers much larger tax breaks to low- and middle-income taxpayers and would increase taxes on high-income taxpayers. The largest tax cuts, as a share of income, would go to those at the bottom of the income distribution, while taxpayers with the highest income would see their taxes rise significantly.


The impact of the tax code on economic activity under each candidate’s policies would differ in several important ways. Under Senator McCain’s proposed policies, the top marginal rates (35 percent on individual income and 25 percent on corporate income) would be significantly lower than under Senator Obama’s plan (39.6 and 35 percent, respectively). McCain’s reduced individual and corporate rates could improve economic efficiency and increase domestic investment, but the larger future deficits would reduce and might completely negate any positive effect. In contrast, Senator Obama’s proposed new tax credits could encourage desirable behavior, particularly if the childless EITC and payroll tax rebate encourage additional labor supply among childless low-income individuals. However, he would also direct new subsidies at an already favored group—seniors —and an already favored activity—homeownership—which could probably be better directed elsewhere.
http://www.urban.org/publications/411741.html

Because so much shit is going on right now, I'm honestly taking my time to review everything, or as much as I can, because my involvement is just as important as every other person's involvement in this election. I want to be 100% certain of my choice...and not make a choice because "it's the lesser of two evils."

The Black Knight
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 08:51 PM
I'm new to this. Who buys the beer? Is it by the word count or seniority or something?

:cheers:

I think it's who can come closest to using up the 10000 character count, without having to modify their original statement in order to meet limitations of characters. Then again, that's why you can always break it up into two parts :)

Myself, I've run over many times. I believe my worst was close to 18000 characters, so I had to truncate my comment by 8000. HAHAHA not good when you've got alot to say.

The Black Knight
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 09:00 PM
Post.

I actually agree with much of your post. I'm voting for McCain on a number of reasons. Many of which range from Iraq, Gun Rights, Healthcare, Immigration, Economy.

As most people know, one of my biggest issue's in life is safety. I.E. Gun Rights and foreign policy. I honestly believe the Economy will fix itself.

Donald Trump on Hannity's talk show today was great. He likened it all to the economy flushing itself. Letting it bottom out and it will come up. Because the problem we are facing now is GAS PRICES. If the world economies tank. Gas Prices has to follow and as Trump pointed out, if Oil is around $25 a barrel. Gas isn't a issue, people can afford to fuel their vehicles. People have more money and can spend to buy stuff or go on vacations. Thus rejuvinating the economy and jumpstarting it all over again.

The point is, let the American people take care of the economy. Get the price of fuel down and people don't mind spending money on lifes pleasures. The economies from past, present and future will come and go, rise and fall. Whatever happens, just let them fix themselves. If you're vested for the long haul(30+ years) in stocks or mutual funds. Then this is just another blip on the radar, that will eventually go away. But we've got to get fuel down. That's the key to fixing this mess...

zetaetatheta
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 09:11 PM
Well I just can't help myself. :)

A "Stirring the Political Pot" thread?? Why that's just my game.

When I first opened this thread up, I was greeted with a gigantic font of "Please Vote for Obama". I then went on to read the subsequent reasons why McCain is not fit for the job and is well, dangerous.

We see in bold font this plea:PLEASE - if you have value the future of this nation's prosperity, your own prosperity, your children or future children's chances of not inheriting endless debt and endless wars...
PLEASE Vote for Obama.

Here is where the plot thickens and we find out who really is "dangerous". The future of this nation impinges with a man who is supposedly our only hope. Who is this man? Barack Obama a man who has some of the most radical and extreme connections with complete lunatics and madmen.

First and foremost: Bill Ayers, someone whom Obama not only worked with(99-02) in distributing government money for his radical re-education of children in schools. He also is a known for his violent bombings. Bombings he said he would have like to have done more of. Not to mention that Ayers is a huge promoter of socialism/communism. Also Obama did his first meeting to start of his bid for the senate in Ayers home.

Second: Rev. Wright: This guy really needs no explanation. The man hates "white people". Has said "Goddamn America (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH5ixmT83JE)". Also promoter of "Black Liberation theology". A man very radical, with whom Obama looked to for over 20 years while sitting in his church pues listening to his ideology.

Third: Father Pfleger: Oh this guy is great. Aside from being radical left as well, he's also someone who likes to threaten others? Yep he and his anti-gun buddies Rainbow/PUSH coalition. Protested outside a chicago gun shop, chanting and yelling at the owner of the establishment, "He's the owner of Chuck's. John Riggio. R-i-g-g-i-o. We're going to find you and snuff you out… you know you're going to hide like a rat. You're going to hide but like a rat we're going to catch you and pull you out." Hmmm, seems like a portrait of self-composure, kindheartedness and a representative of the catholic church(who by the way denounce him).

Fourth: Obama's admitted Muslim connections. Regardless what he says, he has mentioned in his book Audacity of Hope: " I will stand with them(muslims/arabs) should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

I could go on and on, about how he views Iran as a tiny and insignificant country. Wanting to sit down with rogue dicators without pre-conditions. His blatant comments about cutting funding for our troops. And ripping on our troops saying this about their work in in the middle east: "and that requires us to have enough troops that we are not just air raiding villages and killing civilians".

He wants to get rid of funding for missle defense systems, calling them wasteful and systems that don't work. Well I don't think our defense department would develope systems that don't work. I mean that's why they pay the guys who develope these things the big bucks, to get it right.

I'm not voting for Obama, because he's a "dangerous" man, with ties to some of the most horrific individuals in america. He promotes socialism/communism through his "95% get tax cuts", but proposes "over 1 Trillion+ in new programs". Obama is dangerous because he has no clue as to what he's doing. He's good at running his mouth. Yet his strategies and solutions to problems are vaccuous at best. His only card agasint McCain he has is trying to tie McCain to Bush and the "last 8 years". When Obama "if" elected is more that willing to give Socialism and Communism a try.

We worked so hard to defeat this kind of economic point of view and ideology. Socialism fails each time it's tried and applied. Because just like in Soviet Russia, only the wealthy will have the money, and the common-man will be held behind walls with machine guns and when and where they get to live and breathe. Sounds fun doesn't it??

Obama is the most left-leaning and liberal candidate to date. His ideology is of turning America from a Republic to a Socialist state. Obama speaks of "8 years of failed policy" yet his way of thinking, would be guiding us down a dark path to eventual ruin. Because everytime Socialism/Communism gets put to the test it fails. And the thing that kills me is that over half the population of America, still wants to give it a go? I mean are you people freaking kidding me??

Who is more dangerous? McCain for wanting to at least try to reform the greed and corruption. Believes in the American way and wants to restore it to the way it was. By keeping corporations and small business thriving, and in turn keeping our jobs here in America. Instead of them getting sent abroad.

Or

Obama and his socialistic and commie ways of reducing America to another nation lost to the pages of history of failed economic strategies. Who wants to take money from those who have "earned it" and redistribute it to those who "sit on their butts". He wants to run off companies who employ millions. And crush the little man who is trying to become an entrapreneur and have his business get off the ground.

Vote for whomever you see fit. Vote for whomever you believe will do their job they promise. Just don't complain when one decides to try tactics of Soviet Russia and plunge the US in a Marxist society.

So I'm going to revise the plea:
PLEASE - if you value the future of this nation's prosperity, your own prosperity and the ability to watch your dreams grow, your children or future children's chances of finally winning a war on terrorism and being able to secure a safer tomorrow for generations to come, for standing against what is right and wrong and not backing down when evil rears it's ugly head and for believeing in a America that used to be, could be and will be.

PLEASE Vote for McCain.

It would be nice if you had some facts in your post, but like most faux news followers your facts are not facts at all, just lock step republican talking points. I guess desperate times call for desperate measures. If you and your ilk want 4 more years of Bush and you think that the USA is in great shape, please by all means pull your head out of the sand long enough to vote for your maverick--shit go all mavericky on our ass. Let's kick some ass especially everyone different than us true republican/patriotic/war and fear mongering christians. I can't seem to remember the part of the bible where spreading lies and spewing hatred were part of Jesus' lessons, must be encoded in the beatitudes. Maybe I need to read that part again. But who am I to question the second most popular republican (Jesus) after the messiah Ronnie. Anyway Obama is uppity, and has a funny middle name, BTW he is black..

The Black Knight
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 09:22 PM
It would be nice if you had some facts in your post, but like most faux news followers your facts are not facts at all, just lock step republican talking points. I guess desperate times call for desperate measures. If you and your ilk want 4 more years of Bush and you think that the USA is in great shape, please by all means pull your head out of the sand long enough to vote for your maverick--shit go all mavericky on our ass. Let's kick some ass especially everyone different than us true republican/patriotic/war and fear mongering christians. I can't seem to remember the part of the bible where spreading lies and spewing hatred were part of Jesus' lessons, must be encoded in the beatitudes. Maybe I need to read that part again. But who am I to question the second most popular republican (Jesus) after the messiah Ronnie. Anyway Obama is uppity, and has a funny middle name, BTW he is black..

See there you go again with the whole "Republican, Right wing, bible thumping, fear and war mongering" generic label. I never said, lets go beat down everyone out there. However, I do believe in protecting our own soil. Like that's a bad thing??

Oh and spewing lies and hatred, your O-boy and his ilk are very good at that as well. You also ask for facts. I don't have neither the time nor the inclination to search for every piece of fact out there. If that was the case, we would eat up bandwidth at alarming rates. Besides the points I made are very well known. It's not like I'm just making them up for fun.

And by the way, Yes I do believe the USA is in great shape. Where else can I get on my bike and ride around at any time I please or choose to fill up at any gas station of my choosing? Where else can I go to the local market and buy groceries and throw them away if I feel the need to, because I'm over fed?? Where else can you go and pick a school or college of your choosing or career and avocation of your choosing? Where else can you go read any kind of book you please(that says just about anything) and not get flack for it??

Point is, where else can you go and do everything I mentioned and more without being obstructed?? What country can you go to and fulfill your hearts desire, so quickly and so accessibly. What other countries are as rich as we are? Not only in money, but food, clothing, transportation availability, recreation and so on and so on.

Please if there are any countries in the world as cool as the United States of America, point them out. And if they are so wonderful and we are so bad, well then. There's the door, don't let it hit ya, where the good Lord split ya. :)


p.s.
I don't what your hang up is with the Bible and trying to use it against me. Everytime we discuss, you inevitably have to bring it up to try and somehow point out that I'm not christ-like. Well no kidding, I mean I do fall off the wagon alot but do get back up and try and try again. As I've said before, don't look upon the works of man, but upon the example of Christ. Only there will you find perfection...

MikeG
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 09:23 PM
OK Ace. There is a fact out there that the Bush administration has circumvented the Constitution numerous times using the signing statement (over 400 at last count) to ramrod their agenda up the American publics ass. If you are so naive as to require a through bibliography to the evidence that is out there than here is an article that was published by the Boston Globe. Enjoy :roll:

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Reuters_Photo/2006/05/01/1146456546_0953.jpg

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/04/30/bush_challenges_hundreds_of_laws/


Ace huh? So I am naive because I don't think like you? Typical liberal personal attacks to someone who doesn't share their views. Which makes me also wonder why are some liberals so angry all the time?

zetaetatheta
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 10:10 PM
See there you go again with the whole "Republican, Right wing, bible thumping, fear and war mongering" generic label. I never said, lets go beat down everyone out there. However, I do believe in protecting our own soil. Like that's a bad thing??

Oh and spewing lies and hatred, your O-boy and his ilk are very good at that as well. You also ask for facts. I don't have neither the time nor the inclination to search for every piece of fact out there. If that was the case, we would eat up bandwidth at alarming rates. Besides the points I made are very well known. It's not like I'm just making them up for fun.

And by the way, Yes I do believe the USA is in great shape. Where else can I get on my bike and ride around at any time I please or choose to fill up at any gas station of my choosing? Where else can I go to the local market and buy groceries and throw them away if I feel the need to, because I'm over fed?? Where else can you go and pick a school or college of your choosing or career and avocation of your choosing? Where else can you go read any kind of book you please(that says just about anything) and not get flack for it??

Point is, where else can you go and do everything I mentioned and more without being obstructed?? What country can you go to and fulfill your hearts desire, so quickly and so accessibly. What other countries are as rich as we are? Not only in money, but food, clothing, transportation availability, recreation and so on and so on.

Please if there are any countries in the world as cool as the United States of America, point them out. And if they are so wonderful and we are so bad, well then. There's the door, don't let it hit ya, where the good Lord split ya. :)


p.s.
I don't what your hang up is with the Bible and trying to use it against me. Everytime we discuss, you inevitably have to bring it up to try and somehow point out that I'm not christ-like. Well no kidding, I mean I do fall off the wagon alot but do get back up and try and try again. As I've said before, don't look upon the works of man, but upon the example of Christ. Only there will you find perfection...

Typical hypocritical pseudo christian BS (we are not perfect, don't even have to try). Just bugs me how self professed "christians" have so much hatred in them. Guess that is what pushed me away from organized religion.
I have never said there were better countries, I believe it was a republican on this site that mentioned leaving if Obama is elected. The facts are, this country has floundered under the republicans. I hope the American people can see that, and according to the polls they have. There is plenty of dirt on McCain but I prefer to focus on the future and McCain is more the same. Nov 4th will tell the tell. Maybe you should leave and find a good fascist country where you can spew your hatred and be called a patriot for it, one where there is only one opinion and all others a squashed. I'm sure you could find one where the people are ignorant, fear their government, and loathe anyone different than them. I; however, prefer the USA because I can have a say in my government, don't have to be christian, can hold elected officials accountable, and can question my government (which I believe is the most patriotic thing an American can do). On Nov. 4th I shall exercise that right, and it's nice I don't have to believe or adhere to your value system to do so. I do not believe Obama is a terrorist nor a muslim. I do believe dinosaurs never coexisted with humans, earth is older than 6000 years, adam and eve is a parable, the bible was written by men and those men wrote what their superiors wanted ie. King James. I respect your faith in your Karl Roves and Chicken Hawks, dying for those idiots in a bullshit war if it will make you feel better, tell women what they can do with their own bodies, focusing on my family, do as I say not as I do, giving all your money and mine to the very wealthy with this corporate welfare, and worring about same sex couples ruining your God approved marriage, but when you spread lies about others though, all I can say is if there is a hell--see you there.

thatmofo
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 10:50 PM
I'm all about the C.H.A.N.G.E. campaign:

Come Help A Negro Get Elected!

dapper
Mon Oct 6th, 2008, 10:55 PM
http://www.truthorfiction.com/images/salute.jpg
Respect
Senator Barack Obama, Governor Bill Richardson, Senator Hillary Clinton and Ruth Harkin stand during the national anthem.
Barack Hussein Obama's photo (that's his real name)......the article said he REFUSED TO NOT ONLY PUT HIS HAND ON HIS HEART DURING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, BUT REFUSED TO SAY THE PLEDGE.....how in the hell can a man like this expect to be our next Commander-in-Chief????

I kinda got an idea of who was affiliated to what party, but without them actually saying as much...it was extremely subtle. (I love observing people)
Because so much shit is going on right now, I'm honestly taking my time to review everything, or as much as I can, because my involvement is just as important as every other person's involvement in this election. I want to be 100% certain of my choice...and not make a choice because "it's the lesser of two evils." We have two ears and one mouth for a reason. I dislike the ideology of a vote for the Independent party is a vote for the "O". How's that for being transparent!:)



So I'm going to revise the plea:
PLEASE - if you value the future of this nation's prosperity, your own prosperity and the ability to watch your dreams grow, your children or future children's chances of finally winning a war on terrorism and being able to secure a safer tomorrow for generations to come, for standing against what is right and wrong and not backing down when evil rears it's ugly head and for believeing in a America that used to be, could be and will be.
I feel that someone stuck me in a small room to listen to Haggee give his fear-biased mind-programming pitch. I understand where you're coming from and choice not to allow the spin of silliness to affect the peacefulness. Just because something is in our buffet, doesn't mean that we have to eat it.

Let's kick some ass especially everyone different than us true republican/patriotic/war and fear mongering christians. I can't seem to remember the part of the bible where spreading lies and spewing hatred were part of Jesus' lessons, must be encoded in the beatitudes. Maybe I need to read that part again. But who am I to question the second most popular republican (Jesus) after the messiah Ronnie. Anyway Obama is uppity, and has a funny middle name, BTW he is black..That's a interesting way of looking at the topic.
I have enjoyed learning more about the Golden Thread of the truths which are agreed upon between multiple different religions/isms: Hindu, Buddha, Christian, Islam, Juda, Tao, etc. Being that some people have been taught fear...I am happy to understand that fear is just false evidence appearing real.
Any fear based religion, government, or institute is exactly wrong in my opinion. This country was not founded by pessimists. It was founded by optimists.



There's the door, don't let it hit ya, where the good Lord split ya. :)

p.s.
I don't what your hang up is with the Bible and trying to use it against me. Everytime we discuss, you inevitably have to bring it up to try and somehow point out that I'm not christ-like. Well no kidding, I mean I do fall off the wagon alot but do get back up and try and try again. As I've said before, don't look upon the works of man, but upon the example of Christ. Only there will you find perfection...Frankly, we are taking life to seriously, if we are taking this personally. Lighten up and realize that "God is Love." We create our own heaven or our own hell right here and now. For this, too, shall pass.
:angel:

I'm all about the C.H.A.N.G.E. campaign:

Come Help A Negro Get Elected!
That's funny right thur...

Scribbler
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 12:48 AM
A couple things...

First... Dapper... dude seriously... that picture you posted of Obama has already been disproven. If I remember correctly it was taken when he didn't have his hand over his heart was because it was during a prelude to the national anthem and not during the national anthem itself. Additionally... it was also popularized during the same time that Obama didn't wear a US flag pin at events and was criticized for not doing so. Well guess what... during the first presidential debate Obama DID sport the flag pin and McCain DIDN'T. I myself couldn't care less about the whole issue, but if you want to bring it up, well then you've got to recognize.

Second... I'm an independent (for those of you who are technical about it...I'm registered Unaffiliated, more accurately I was registered republican prior to this election however the partisan difference is long since moot, despite what anybody says) and have watched both sides very carefully. I could debate the merits of both sides of the party. I share ideals with both major candidates so it becomes rather conflicting as to which I'd prefer as president. So which do I vote for?

I find myself having to vote for the candidate who would represent and produce the american ideals. As well I have to vote for the president who would also rekindle strained foreign relations. I can NOT find myself voting for a president who would further strain those relations and further kill the american ideals. I can't help but vote for Obama. Do I agree with all of his ideas? No. However some of them I do. Do I agree with all of McCain's ideals? No. And again some of them I do.

The clincher for me is which candidate would overall produce the best outcome economically, with foreign relations, and american idealism (that's the biggie for me). In a nutshell... which would make the US more popular worldwide and at home.

Maybe some of you would rather make your individual statements and make a stand on those ideals, however that's not what the US needs at the moment. In today's world, no government can work alone. Despite what ideals we hold dear to our heart and beliefs, we also have to shake hands with our neighbors. The number one problem we have as a country today is the whole world resents the last major superpower, regardless of their reasoning or rationale. Do we embrace that stance? Or do we share it with the rest? I think the latter. The republicans have promoted the former and its not working. Give the democrats a shot. What do we have to lose? Do you think the Democrats will lay down? Nope... prior to the first Bush administration, military strength came from the democrats, not the republicans.

#1Townie
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 07:27 AM
obama cant fix shit..

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 08:04 AM
A couple things...

First... Dapper... dude seriously... that picture you posted of Obama has already been disproven. If I remember correctly it was taken when he didn't have his hand over his heart was because it was during a prelude to the national anthem and not during the national anthem itself.


Afraid NOT Dude. He did not put his hand over his heart the ENTIRE time of the national anthem. Maybe his heart in in his "crotchal region".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwog6E08CFU

God that woman's singing is butchering our anthem.

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 08:12 AM
Jesus Christ

I have just a few things to say first of all is that those of you who are just thinking on terms of Rep. and Dem. be quite. this two party system we have is bringing America down by not giving us an actual choice yes we have third parties but a lot of people still think that a third party vote is a wasted vote when the ONLY wasted vote is the one not cast and if you didn't cast a vote shut the hell up. How that person votes is up to them because it is there vote if they want to vote for someone fine, against someone that's fine to the point is just vote people. The great thing about America is that we have the choice of how we vote

Second ALL main stream media will put a twist on the news. Unless you actually went to the source and found the original document or whatever the case is and found the information chances are you are being fed a story that has been twisted around.

As for those of you who are attacking the republicans because of their religion for fucks sake stop it. If I remember this correctly people came here to be free of religious persecution. I guess though in your mind only the Christians are free game everyone else can believe in whatever religion they want. I would be completely in the wrong if I said all liberals are Muslim sympathizing American hating ass holes however a liberal who says Christians are 'bitter people clinging to their guns and religion' is 100% PC. I guess that is just the double standard world the dems have come to create. You don't have to follow a religion no one is forcing you. I am going to stop this before it starts. Yes I know you have the freedom of speech to say what you want about Christians just like I have the freedom to type this article so don't bitch about your freedom of speech when you would take mine away. I believe that "To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society" - Teddy Roosevelt

Now for all of you NObama supporters out there but this goes to everyone else as well. If you are saying some of the facts are not true because the person they were about said they were not true well then you are a naive fool. With the race this close in votes and in time they WILL say anything to get your vote. Hell they started that months ago

I have my reasons for not voting for Obama one of which is I already have a messiah

K I'm done now :)

Devaclis
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 08:13 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/devaclis/Funny/5604dd2f.jpg

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 08:17 AM
^^^^^^^^^^
He has Jack and Shit, And Jack left town!
All religions are Fair Game...I may be God Less but I will NEVER be Gun Less!!!!!

Nick_Ninja
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 08:22 AM
We need a good civil war ----- against religion.

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 08:23 AM
All religions are Fair Game...I may be God Less but I will NEVER be Gun Less!!!!!

I am fine with the all or nothing notion, that is the freedom of speech. It is a right of everyone and protected for those that are US citizens. I was saying don't poke fun at a religion then tell me I can't poke fun at one.

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 08:23 AM
We need a good civil war ----- against religion.


Jeff, you and I have found common ground on that one

Bebop, I feel ALL religions are ridiculous and are man-made for control

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 08:25 AM
We need a good civil war ----- against religion.

Congradulations you are promoting something that thousands of people have died for in order to get. You are able to sleep at night?

Nick_Ninja
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 08:26 AM
Congradulations you are promoting something that thousands of people have died for in order to get. You are able to sleep at night?


Hell yeah! Fuck them whom have died and their fuckin' icons.

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 08:33 AM
Hell yeah! Fuck them whom have died and their fuckin' icons.
So you don't believe in it there for no one should... Sounds familiar, wait something is coming to mind. Goose stepping, swastikas, bad mustaches... Hiel Hitler? You are just as bad as people who you hate.

Keyser Soze
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 08:40 AM
I'm voting democrat!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPG25Wf0aa4

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 08:44 AM
I'm voting democrat!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPG25Wf0aa4


:lol:

Devaclis
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 08:45 AM
So you don't believe in it there for no one should... Sounds familiar, wait something is coming to mind. Goose stepping, swastikas, bad mustaches... Hiel Hitler? You are just as bad as people who you hate.

Not everyone who oposses religion is a Nazi.

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 08:48 AM
Not everyone who oposses religion is a Nazi.


John Lennon was no Hitler

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 08:50 AM
Not everyone who oposses religion is a Nazi.

No but people who want to kill people who don't belive what they do have the same traits as them. You should consider your own words because not every christian thinks that there religion is the only one in fact from my experiance most don't.

Devaclis
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 08:59 AM
In considering my own words "Not everyone who oposses religion is a Nazi", I do not see any information indicating that I think every Christian thinks that their religion is the only one. As a matter of fact the word "Christian, That, Only, One, Thinks, or Every" are not even in my own words.

You are projecting. My quote was simple and did not incite the need for my indictment as a Christian hater, killer, or basher. Read my quote again.

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 09:06 AM
In considering my own words "Not everyone who oposses religion is a Nazi", I do not see any information indicating that I think every Christian thinks that their religion is the only one. As a matter of fact the word "Christian, That, Only, One, Thinks, or Every" are not even in my own words.

You are projecting. My quote was simple and did not incite the need for my indictment as a Christian hater, killer, or basher. Read my quote again.
Then maybe you should look at my quote again "So you don't believe in it there for no one should... Sounds familiar, wait something is coming to mind. Goose stepping, swastikas, bad mustaches... Hiel Hitler? You are just as bad as people who you hate." It was directed at the person making the quote not at everyone who hates religion. So therefore you started the "projecting" I just returned in kind.

Devaclis
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 09:13 AM
Right, lets argue over who your comment was directed at and not what your comment actually was.

"You should consider your own words because not every christian thinks that there religion is the only one in fact from my experiance most don't."

This had NOTHING to do with my comment. I was not defending anyone. I was informing you that people who are not religious are not all mass murderers.

Don't make this more than it is.

Nick_Ninja
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 09:20 AM
Bebop --- I could care less what you believe in. I believe I'll have another drink. Take your fuckin beliefs, what ever that they may be, and pack sand. I have no use for you. I'll let you live ------- this time. Oh, since this is a motorcycle forum i might as well place all my cards on the table, I don't ride with you kind either.

Shea
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 09:22 AM
Bebop --- I could care less what you believe in. I believe I'll have another drink. Take your fuckin beliefs, what ever that they may be, and pack sand. I have no use for you. I'll let you live ------- this time. Oh, since this is a motorcycle forum i might as well place all my cards on the table, I don't ride with you kind either.

Wow...

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 09:28 AM
It really is astonashing how you can remember to breath. I am not going to argue with you any more becasue "Never argue with an idiot, people might not know the difference". I have a feeling you might respond with something along the lines of well you are giving up because you don't have an argument so therefore I win. Which is BS but hey whatever helps you sleep at night.

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 09:33 AM
Bebop --- I could care less what you believe in. I believe I'll have another drink. Take your fuckin beliefs, what ever that they may be, and pack sand. I have no use for you. I'll let you live ------- this time. Oh, since this is a motorcycle forum i might as well place all my cards on the table, I don't ride with you kind either.

Oh dear god, SAY IT ISN'T SO! WHAT HAVE I DONE TO DESERVE THIS CRULE FATE! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! :cry::cry::cry: :321:

merlin
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 09:43 AM
A little revolution from time to time is a good thing…

Remember, Remember the 5th of November, the Gunpowder treason and plot. I can think of no reason why the Gunpowder treason should ever be forgot.

There's a good reason to vote for McCain- He's more likely to finish what the Shrub started and fuck things up to the point of inciting a revolution!

Remember folks- Your vote means fuck-all. If voting could accomplish anything, they would have outlawed it long ago. The only votes that mean anything in this day and age are made from rooftops. :sniper:

Merlyn

Snowman
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 09:54 AM
Please review Godwins Law…

How to Behave On A Internet Forum (http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-behave-on-an-internet-forum)

This thread has offically reached 1...

Rhino
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 10:18 AM
Well, the title of this thread was right, the pot is stirring:scream1:

After 3 pages, it's degraded to the usual stereotypical "I'm a lefty and you rightys suck because..." "I'm a righty and you lefty's suck because..."

But I have yet to see any substance from the OP or anyone for that matter that gives ANY reason to support the OP's idea that Obama will save us all. This thread was started with a proclamation of doom if he doesn't win. Don't ask me to validate my choice, that's not the game. Hell, I might be voting for him and just "stirring the pot" myself.


A few people have offered what issues are important to them. It seems like there should be an overwhelming list of reasons. Where's the typical Vance diatribe that takes 3 posts to fit it all?

So again: Give 1 reason...give 5, 10...Hell, offer ANYTHING.:dunno:

Shea
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 10:31 AM
So again: Give 1 reason...give 5, 10...Hell, offer ANYTHING.:dunno:

Why?

What passes as enlightened debate on CSC and the interwebs in general:

A. If you support McCain you're a Nazi, if you support Obama you're a Communist.

B. If you have any religious belief system you should be shot, if you have none you should be shot.

C. I am a victim of (insert your favorite institution, corporation and/or group) and you should all join me in my victimhood.

D. When painted into a corner that could possibly mean conceding a point, disparage your opponent, his views and his family origin/sexual preference.

E. Any post worth a damn should contain several insults and threats to life/limb/property, just because someone doesn't agree with your rational, intelligent and well researched conspiracy theory.

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 10:41 AM
Well, the title of this thread was right, the pot is stirring:scream1:

After 3 pages, it's degraded to the usual stereotypical "I'm a lefty and you rightys suck because..." "I'm a righty and you lefty's suck because..."

But I have yet to see any substance from the OP or anyone for that matter that gives ANY reason to support the OP's idea that Obama will save us all. This thread was started with a proclamation of doom if he doesn't win. Don't ask me to validate my choice, that's not the game. Hell, I might be voting for him and just "stirring the pot" myself.


A few people have offered what issues are important to them. It seems like there should be an overwhelming list of reasons. Where's the typical Vance diatribe that takes 3 posts to fit it all?

So again: Give 1 reason...give 5, 10...Hell, offer ANYTHING.:dunno:

I would think in order to answer your question we would need to know what issues are important to you in order to limit our research to show you points for any one canidate. Otherwise any one of us can post pages upon pages of information for or against any canidate. Better yet if you want this information look for it yourself because not only will you know when you have found the truth but you won't have to cut threw the BS that both sides feed you.

Stuart Little
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 10:43 AM
"Boulder Liberal Nick_Ninja approves this message."

Also approved by Jeff's VP...aka Stewy, I mean, I'm pretty sure I am as qualified as Palin!

salsashark
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 10:46 AM
Why?

What passes as enlightened debate on CSC and the interwebs in general:

A. If you support McCain you're a Nazi, if you support Obama you're a Communist.

B. If you have any religious belief system you should be shot, if you have none you should be shot.

C. I am a victim of (insert your favorite institution, corporation and/or group) and you should all join me in my victimhood.

D. When painted into a corner that could possibly mean conceding a point, disparage your opponent, his views and his family origin/sexual preference.

E. Any post worth a damn should contain several insults and threats to life/limb/property, just because someone doesn't agree with your rational, intelligent and well researched conspiracy theory.

:spit:

It's like the rough draft to the CSC Bill of Rights!

Imagine the motorcycle community we would have if people spent half as much time riding as they do spewing right and left wing nonsense as well as other BS on the interwebz?!

Stuart Little
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 10:57 AM
I fought for this country. I love this country. I am proud to be a Republican. I am voting Republican. There is just too much damn estrogen in this forum so pull up your skirt Nancy. LOL, Have a nice day!

Not many people who fought for our country are democrats because as i'm sure many military and ex-military can agree as well as pressing into all the things you need to do in boot camp they also push a political and religious agenda on you.

Simply because republicans believe more in military spending than democrats.

But good call on calling everyone voting for Obama Nancy, i'm sure that'll teach em and make em vote for McCain :P

CYCLE_MONKEY
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 11:11 AM
http://www.truthorfiction.com/images/salute.jpg
Respect.....NOT!!!
Perfect reason not to vote for the a$$-clown. And, honsetly, the only one I need, although I have plenty of others. Think that after he loses the election, he can wear a "Loser" pin since he can't be bothered to wear our flag pin?

Shea
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 11:13 AM
Not many people who fought for our country are democrats because as i'm sure many military and ex-military can agree as well as pressing into all the things you need to do in boot camp they also push a political and religious agenda on you.

Simply because republicans believe more in military spending than democrats.

But good call on calling everyone voting for Obama Nancy, i'm sure that'll teach em and make em vote for McCain :P

I don't know what Basic you went to but I didn't receive any political/religious "agenda" while I was there.

In general, Republicans believe that "providing for the common defense" is the primary duty of government. In general, Democrats do not and would rather see that money moved to social programs. Reading the Constitution makes it pretty clear who stands on firmer ground.

CYCLE_MONKEY
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 11:14 AM
I don't know what Basic you went to but I didn't receive any political/religious "agenda" while I was there.

In general, Republicans believe that "providing for the common defense" is the primary duty of government. In general, Democrats do not and would rather see that money moved to social programs. Reading the Constitution makes it pretty clear who stands on firmer ground.
Nah, I think it's more that Democrats are pussies and Republicans are man enough to put themselves in harms way for a total (often ungrateful) stranger to fight for what they believe in......:)

Shea
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 11:22 AM
Nah, I think it's more that Democrats are pussies and Republicans are man enough to put themselves in harms way for a total (often ungrateful) stranger to fight for what they believe in......:)

I guess you could put it that way. I would argue that those who love their country, believe in the freedom and opportunity that it offers are more willing to pick up arms then those who believe that we are an evil, capitalist, nazi-run, fascist country who enslave the world with our greed.
As such those in uniform will tend to be more conservative then liberal.

Anecdotally, out of my company (120-ish) only one person was a diehard Democrat.

But we were all war-monger, baby-killing robots without a shred of intelligent objective thought amongst us.

Filo
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 11:26 AM
But I have yet to see any substance from the OP or anyone for that matter that gives ANY reason to support the OP's idea that Obama will save us all.

So again: Give 1 reason...give 5, 10...Hell, offer ANYTHING.:dunno:

OK, here is one for Obama (not sure what the OP is). Obama is more likely to balance the budget and eradicate the deficit. McCain's stated goals will increase the deficit significantly. Now it is up to you to decide if you are for deficit spending or not.

Here is another interesting tidbit. If Obama wins we will have a Dem as president and a Dem controlled congress. With a Rep. president and a Rep. congress we had run away spending and a bunch of pork. Imagine what the Dems. will do. That right there may be enough reason to vote for McCain... (continued below, with a context enabling quote)


Why?
D. When painted into a corner that could possibly mean conceding a point, disparage your opponent, his views and his family origin/sexual preference.


you hamster f*cker. :)

BTW, given the "volatility" of the world market today, both candidates are going to have to seriously cut back on what they are promising in their campaigns.

Filo
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 11:28 AM
But we were all war-monger, baby-killing robots without a shred of intelligent objective thought amongst us.

No, you are a hamster f*cker, just like the last guy. :)

Shea
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 11:32 AM
you hamster f*cker. :)

BTW, given the "volatility" of the world market today, both candidates are going to have to seriously cut back on what they are promising in their campaigns.

Hamster f*cker?! That's it! I'm going to hunt you down and kill you, your dog and steal your little red book, blood sucking commie bitch! :)

Yeah, as usual, there will be no way either of them will be able to deliver on the utopian plans we get fed each election cycle.

Keyser Soze
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 11:33 AM
I don't know what Basic you went to but I didn't receive any political/religious "agenda" while I was there.

In general, Republicans believe that "providing for the common defense" is the primary duty of government. In general, Democrats do not and would rather see that money moved to social programs. Reading the Constitution makes it pretty clear who stands on firmer ground.

No kidding! :lol: You ever go through basic training Stewie?

t_jolt
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 11:33 AM
OK, here is one for Obama (not sure what the OP is). Obama is more likely to balance the budget and eradicate the deficit.

Not really, What about all of obama's pet projects? who pays for those?


Here is another interesting tidbit. If Obama wins we will have a Dem as president and a Dem controlled congress. With a Rep. president and a Rep. congress we had run away spending and a bunch of pork.

Well considering that the congress and the house has been dem controlling now for years... There the one that really put us where we are...

just my .02

Shea
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 11:38 AM
Well considering that the congress and the house has been dem controlling now for years... There the one that really put us where we are...

just my .02

There is plenty of blame to go around. They're all corrupt, weak and poor stewards of our money.

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 11:46 AM
There is plenty of blame to go around. They're all corrupt, weak and poor stewards of our money.
Agreed, this problem started long ago even before Bush Sr. Rep and Dem congresses and presidents had chances to do something but didn't. The banks can be blamed for lending out money to people who could not afford the morgage and the people are to blame for wanting more house then they could afford.

Filo
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 11:48 AM
Not really, What about all of obama's pet projects? who pays for those?

Taxes. You and I pay for all those projects. BTW, this is not my idea. This is the result of a survey of a few hundred economists based on what the candidates have said during the campaign and what they have put forth as proposals. You can find it in detail at (where else) www.economist.com (http://www.economist.com)



Well considering that the congress and the house has been dem controlling now for years... There the one that really put us where we are...
just my .02

The Dems controlled congress starting at the last mid term election. Before that it was Republican controlled. Bill Frist was the last R. majority leader. Dems controlled congress from 2001 to 2003. Reps from 2003 to 2007. Dems have controlled it since. Thus, at the end of Bush's second term it will have been half Dem controlled half Rep controlled. In general, it is a bad idea (from my point of view) to have the presidents office and the congress controlled by the same party.

Federal Deficit (all numbers are approximate, $Billions): 2001, -120; 2002, 160; 2003, 375; 2004, 405; 2005, 305; 2006, 250; 2007,160.

One thing I am against, not being a believer in so called Reganomics, is a large budget deficit or large federal debt. In 2007 our federal debt was $5000B.

Shea
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 11:51 AM
One thing I am against, not being a believer in so called Reganomics, is a large budget deficit or large federal debt. In 2007 our federal debt was $500B.

Close...well, ok not really. Federal debt as of Sept '07 was $8.993 TRILLION. (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/feddebt/feddebt_ann2007.pdf)

Total debt (debt and unfunded obligations) is around $60 TRILLION. Hard choices need to be made but niether candidate has the stones to make them and niether party has the political stomach to confront such a problem. We can't tax our way out of it, the only course of action is to gut government spending. And, of course no one is willing to even consider that.

salsashark
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 11:55 AM
Taxes. You and I pay for all those projects. BTW, this is not my idea. This is the result of a survey of a few hundred economists based on what the candidates have said during the campaign and what they have put forth as proposals. You can find it in detail at (where else) www.economist.com (http://www.economist.com)


Who's taxes?

95% of Americans are getting tax cuts...

The gov doesn't currently have enough money to pay for current programs (I know, I work on one)...

Companies that are forced to pay more will go elsewhere to conduct business...

Companies continuing to conduct business will pass on tax increases directly to the customer...

The rich can't feed everyone

Do you not see the fault in this logic?

Shea
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 12:06 PM
Who's taxes?

95% of Americans are getting tax cuts...

The gov doesn't currently have enough money to pay for current programs (I know, I work on one)...

Companies that are forced to pay more will go elsewhere to conduct business...

Companies continuing to conduct business will pass on tax increases directly to the customer...

The rich can't feed everyone

Do you not see the fault in this logic?

C'mon Salsa, you know that with a little "hope" it will all work out.

Tax the rich, tax the corporations and raise the capital gains tax to "20-25%" (thus driving foreign investment out of the country and drying up domestic capital investment) is a surefire way of fixing a faltering economy. But give tax cuts to those who put (realtively) very little into the system to make it look like you care. Election year politics at it's finest baby!

pilot
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 12:08 PM
I say we have a garage sale and sell:

California and Texas back to Mexico (They're pretty much there anyways)
Louisiana to France (France needs to feel the pain of a hurricane)
Florida to Spain and Portugal (because we got ripped off on the fountain of youth)
NY and surrounding areas back to the Indians (let them open up casinos and fix Wall Street with the money they take in)

That should get us out of debt.

Oh, and Alaska to Canada and Russia (Palin could then look at the dirt at her hammer toed feet and say, "Look, Russia!"

mastap07
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 12:23 PM
im one of those church goers from time to time and i dont understand how you can go from a muslim to a christian over night?

DFab
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 12:31 PM
A few have brought up the abortion issue, saying that the next President has no control over it. The next prez will most likely appoint 2 new supreme court justices, to replace 2 retiring liberals (Stevens and Ginsburg maybe?). A McCain presidency will swing the court hard to the right, resulting in Roe v. Wade being overturned the next time it's challenged.

An extreamly conservative supreme court for the next 2 decades would be one of the worst outcomes of his election, IMO.

Nick_Ninja
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 12:35 PM
A few have brought up the abortion issue, saying that the next President has no control over it. The next prez will most likely appoint 2 new supreme court justices, to replace 2 retiring liberals (Stevens and Ginsburg maybe?). A McCain presidency will swing the court hard to the right, resulting in Roe v. Wade being overturned the next time it's challenged.

An extreamly conservative supreme court for the next 2 decades would be one of the worst outcomes of his election, IMO.


Assuming the Ol' War Horse gets in ----- I can't wait for the flip-flop. Neither the legislative branch nor the judiciary branch of the U.S. government has addressed the question "Is the fetus human?" In 1973, they claimed they "didn't know" and "there was not enough evidence." Roe v Wade was ultimately decided based on the mothers right to "privacy". Privacy will not be 'overturned'.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/04/cindy-roe-wade-overturned/

Stuart Little
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 12:41 PM
Perfect reason not to vote for the a$$-clown. And, honsetly, the only one I need, although I have plenty of others. Think that after he loses the election, he can wear a "Loser" pin since he can't be bothered to wear our flag pin?

LOL, notice McCain isn't even in the picture, what kind of respect does that show... you're the guy that is not voting for Obama because he didn't raise his hand :)

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 12:44 PM
LOL, notice McCain isn't even in the picture, what kind of respect does that show... you're the guy that is not voting for Obama because he didn't raise his hand :)


I have seen him raise his hand.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/raycomfort/ObamaHitler.jpg

Sortarican
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 12:45 PM
Companies that are forced to pay more will go elsewhere to conduct business...

Where have you been? That ship done sailed.
And it did so with tax credits for the cost of moving approved by both parties.


.. But giving rebate checks to the masses to be spent on Chinese manufactured WalMart products
in order to make it look like you care and distract you from the storm on the horizon
while all the time printing more script till you drive the value of
same said masses life savings down by 20% is sound fiscal policy.....

Fixed (aka: libelously misquoted) for ya Shea.:up:
(Though in all honesty Shea probably wouldn't have constructed it as such a blatant run on sentence.)

Nick_Ninja
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 12:45 PM
I have seen him raise his hand.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/raycomfort/ObamaHitler.jpg

lame ............................................... :roll:

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 12:48 PM
Jeff how bout this one?
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/lancer02es/Obama.png

Shea
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 12:49 PM
Fixed (aka: libelously misquoted) for ya Shea.:up:
(Though in all honesty Shea probably wouldn't have constructed it as such a blatant run on sentence.)

Though an accurate misquote :)

Rhino
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 12:59 PM
I would think in order to answer your question we would need to know what issues are important to you in order to limit our research to show you points for any one canidate. Otherwise any one of us can post pages upon pages of information for or against any canidate. Better yet if you want this information look for it yourself because not only will you know when you have found the truth but you won't have to cut threw the BS that both sides feed you.


I don't want to be catered to. In the original post (OP) Vance came on like an infomercial host selling the 2nd coming of Christ. I've done a lot of research on everybody running, and with few exception, it's standard "lie your ass off before the election" politics. Basically, I'm simply asking him or anyone to back up the original statement.

I see one post from Filo regarding the deficit, which as far as I can tell, the Pres has no control over. The other about appointed the judges and 1 topic they might rule on...

If this post was about KonichD telling everyone that EVERYONE needed to get the newest Kawi, he'd have a list of all the specs and stats and why it is soooo much better than your bike.

It shouldn't matter who I am. So far, its the same as its been all along. Using coined phrases and no substance. Someone, anyone give me a list. A list of why he is better, not why the other guys suck. Try to actually use something that the Pres would have control over.


List topics and how he is far superior. Not just "He will change the hope that brings hopey change."

Sortarican
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 01:08 PM
I don't want to be catered to....

Are you sure? They're delicous!
Try just one...they're baked with genuine Hope!

http://openhouse.homegoods.com/wp-content/photos/cookies_007.jpg

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 01:16 PM
Let's all Step up for Change and Hope and fuzzy fucking Bunnies and berkenstocks, and unicorns, and rainbows.

Give give give for the new messiah
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/img/08/obama-donate-banner5.jpg
http://my.barackobama.com/page/outreach/view/main/du

Devaclis
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 01:23 PM
Vote Palin:

http://www.moarpics.com/images/6pduuldaul9h4v93gau1.gif

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 01:25 PM
Vote Palin:

http://www.moarpics.com/images/6pduuldaul9h4v93gau1.gif:hump::hump::hump::hump:
Biden looks HUNGRY

salsashark
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 01:25 PM
Where have you been? That ship done sailed.
And it did so with tax credits for the cost of moving approved by both parties.


Fortunately, working in a job that can not be outsourced!

So, if the ship has done sailed, why would we close the port and mine the bay?

McVaaahhh
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 01:29 PM
If this post was about KonichD telling everyone that EVERYONE needed to get the newest Kawi, he'd have a list of all the specs and stats and why it is soooo much better than your bike.



DK would tell you why your bike sucks too. :D




It shouldn't matter who I am. So far, its the same as its been all along. Using coined phrases and no substance. Someone, anyone give me a list. A list of why he is better, not why the other guys suck. Try to actually use something that the Pres would have control over.


List topics and how he is far superior. Not just "He will change the hope that brings hopey change."

This is just sad, and even more sadly a sign of the times. I think that the negative campaigning of local officials all the way up to the prez is now so ingrained in the collective consciousness that very few people can probably come up with a positive about any candidate. And maybe there isn't a positive, there's just lesser degrees of suckiness...

For a lot of folks like me, who haven't drank the kool-aid from either campaign, things are really confusing right now. I need to find some time and find out what the candidates actually stand for and why I should vote for them instead of why I shouldn't vote for the other guy.

Raptor
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 01:29 PM
This is a very unique political thread. I've never seen one quite like it.

Raptor
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 01:30 PM
Vote Palin:

http://www.moarpics.com/images/6pduuldaul9h4v93gau1.gif

BWAhahahahahaaa!

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 01:33 PM
This is a very unique political thread. I've never seen one quite like it.

So you were looking for facts and mature debate here?

I guess this would be a massdebate.

Filo
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 01:34 PM
Who's taxes?

95% of Americans are getting tax cuts...

The gov doesn't currently have enough money to pay for current programs (I know, I work on one)...

Companies that are forced to pay more will go elsewhere to conduct business...

Companies continuing to conduct business will pass on tax increases directly to the customer...

The rich can't feed everyone

Do you not see the fault in this logic?

You assume I support the position. The question was how does Obama expect to pay for his programs. The answer is taxes. It is not my answer - it is his answer. There are false dichotomies implied in your answer by the way. Both candidates are going to have to raise taxes, given the current situation. To imply otherwise is irresponsible. Also, you assume I support Obama. Further, you assume I have no problems with Obama's stated policy. All of the assumptions are questionable at best.

Raptor
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 01:37 PM
So you were looking for facts and mature debate here?

I guess this would be a massdebate.

Huh? Massengildebate? And, how dare you insinuate that I would ever, ever be in search of anything logical...here or anywhere else!! :tomato:

Filo
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 01:40 PM
Close...well, ok not really. Federal debt as of Sept '07 was $8.993 TRILLION.

I sit corrected. I actually had a typo and meant to type 5000 not 500, which is roughly the publicly held debt. Sorry.

Vance
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 01:45 PM
4 pages?
That's it?

Dammit... I thought for SURE with that initial post I could have mustered up at least 10 by now.

Hmmm....
I have to find something else to stir a stronger debate amongst you denziens of the CSC ether.

:devil2:

salsashark
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 01:54 PM
You assume I support the position. The question was how does Obama expect to pay for his programs. The answer is taxes. It is not my answer - it is his answer. There are false dichotomies implied in your answer by the way. Both candidates are going to have to raise taxes, given the current situation. To imply otherwise is irresponsible. Also, you assume I support Obama. Further, you assume I have no problems with Obama's stated policy. All of the assumptions are questionable at best.

Not in the least... I don't assume any of the above... as far as I'm concerned, assumption is the mother of all fuck ups. I saw that your were citing economist.org or whatever, just simply replying to what you wrote. There are very few people on this board that I would assume to know where they stand, that's because they came out and said, "this is where I stand". (maybe I could have word-smithed it better to avoid using "you"... I really wanted to use [you], but damn Ralph for taking away that little bit of fun!)

As far as everyone else, I'm taking this thread at face value, a pot stirring festival.

Filo
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 02:07 PM
Not in the least... I don't assume any of the above... as far as I'm concerned, assumption is the mother of all fuck ups. I saw that your were citing economist.org or whatever, just simply replying to what you wrote. There are very few people on this board that I would assume to know where they stand, that's because they came out and said, "this is where I stand". (maybe I could have word-smithed it better to avoid using "you"... I really wanted to use [you], but damn Ralph for taking away that little bit of fun!)

As far as everyone else, I'm taking this thread at face value, a pot stirring festival.

Hamster f*cker (see page 6 for context)

Filo
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 02:09 PM
4 pages?
That's it?

Dammit... I thought for SURE with that initial post I could have mustered up at least 10 by now.

Hmmm....
I have to find something else to stir a stronger debate amongst you denziens of the CSC ether.

:devil2:

OK, how is this:

Everyone complete this sentence

I ________ Vance because he is a __________.


I'll start

I disenfranchise Vance because he is a hamster f*cker.

TFOGGuys
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 02:13 PM
In considering my own words "Not everyone who oposses religion is a Nazi", I do not see any information indicating that I think every Christian thinks that their religion is the only one. As a matter of fact the word "Christian, That, Only, One, Thinks, or Every" are not even in my own words.

You are projecting. My quote was simple and did not incite the need for my indictment as a Christian hater, killer, or basher. Read my quote again.

Our First Amendment not only allows for the free practice of your chosen religion, it also allows the choice to be FROM religion if you wish. It's no more a subject other people should be advising me on than if I choose to masturbate in the shower or not... :jerkoff:

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 02:15 PM
with peanut butter

CYCLE_MONKEY
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 02:30 PM
LOL, notice McCain isn't even in the picture, what kind of respect does that show... you're the guy that is not voting for Obama because he didn't raise his hand :)
LOLROFLLMAO
You're blaming McCain for the photographer not even being able to get him in the picture?!?! Now THAT'S funny!:)

CYCLE_MONKEY
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 02:32 PM
Oh, and Alaska to Canada and Russia (Palin could then look at the dirt at her hammer toed feet and say, "Look, Russia!"
Better Hammer Toe than Camel Toe! Or, in her part of the world, "Moose Knuckle"......:)

TFOGGuys
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 02:32 PM
I don't want to be catered to. In the original post (OP) Vance came on like an infomercial host selling the 2nd coming of Christ. I've done a lot of research on everybody running, and with few exception, it's standard "lie your ass off before the election" politics. Basically, I'm simply asking him or anyone to back up the original statement.

I see one post from Filo regarding the deficit, which as far as I can tell, the Pres has no control over. The other about appointed the judges and 1 topic they might rule on...

If this post was about KonichD telling everyone that EVERYONE needed to get the newest Kawi, he'd have a list of all the specs and stats and why it is soooo much better than your bike.

It shouldn't matter who I am. So far, its the same as its been all along. Using coined phrases and no substance. Someone, anyone give me a list. A list of why he is better, not why the other guys suck. Try to actually use something that the Pres would have control over.


List topics and how he is far superior. Not just "He will change the hope that brings hopey change."

Real change in Washington will not come until we come up with enforceable term limits. If some gawdawful career politician can plan on retaining his post for the next thirty years by steering pork or government benefits to his constituency, he'll promise anything to get re-elected. If he knows he's going to lose his job, and his future employability is determined by his resume (like in the real friggin world), more attention might be paid to doing what is beneficial, rather than what is popular. What flat fuckin' pisses me off is that this election boils down to a choice between two broken ideologies that really don't have anything new to offer, and haven't for 60 years. Nor do they actually differ from each other significantly, regardless of the exaggerated posturing going on. There are no less than 5 additional parties fielding candidates, but have you heard anything in the mainstream media about them? Seen their candidates invited to televised debates? WTF?

/rant

Note: Regardless of which candidate wins, ask yourself in January 2010 :Am I, personally, any better off because I voted for _________?

Kole.S
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 02:34 PM
what time is the debate tonight?

DFab
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 02:35 PM
Assuming the Ol' War Horse gets in ----- I can't wait for the flip-flop. Neither the legislative branch nor the judiciary branch of the U.S. government has addressed the question "Is the fetus human?" In 1973, they claimed they "didn't know" and "there was not enough evidence." Roe v Wade was ultimately decided based on the mothers right to "privacy". Privacy will not be 'overturned'.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/04/cindy-roe-wade-overturned/

Scalia for one has been very clear. He does not believe the right to privacy covers abortions. He does not believe abortion is constitutionally protected. 2 more justices with the same view (actually one more would do it), and Roe v. Wade can be overturned.

Also, neither the constitution or the bill or rights expressly provides the "Right to Privacy". Many people read the 9th amendment to provide this, but again, different judges have different opinions.

wtf? Cindy McCain? Is she going to be picking the judicial nominees in a McCain administration? Or is she going to be one of them?

TFOGGuys
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 02:38 PM
with peanut butter


Shhhhhhhhhh!



:spit:

64BonnieLass
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 02:44 PM
Note: Regardless of which candidate wins, ask yourself in January 2010 :Am I, personally, any better off because I voted for _________?

With either candidate, my answer is NO! Politics suck and so do blow job luvin politicians - especially the two we have to choose from this term. The "people" can't win in this year's election. PERIOD!

Please have a very nice day. Great day for a ride huh? :)

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 02:49 PM
With either candidate, my answer is NO! Politics suck and so do blow job luvin politicians - especially the two we have to choose from this term. The "people" can't win in this year's election. PERIOD!

Please have a very nice day. Great day for a ride huh? :)

Economically the country was better off when Bill got a knobber.

I don't care who or what the President sticks his/her pink parts in, just so long as it is not the Americain taxpayer.

So Bill got blown. Big Deal .

Main thing is Stupid ASS CHIMPY is GONE

Sortarican
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 02:56 PM
So, if the ship has done sailed, why would we close the port and mine the bay?

So no more ships get out or in without paying the fees for the port they're enjoying a rich livelyhood from.

I'm a programmer and I know programmers that are out of work.
The current and past administrations have consistently increased the number of H-1B visas issued (to as high as 195,000 for 2001-2003).
Mostly for technology workers, claiming a shortage of qualified US resident workers.

Offshoring is done under the same claim of necessity.
All the time qualified workers here are left unemployed and the corporations still enjoy every benefit of being rich in a
country they've put out of work.

If I'm making millions while living in this country I would have no problem paying even a higher tax burden.

The average man in the streets is making no direct profit from the bulk of the US goverment spending used to support the
infrastructure of this country.
Corporations on the other hand use our military (both to protect their interests and provide huge contracts), roads, bridges,
seaports, and national forests to make billions, yet cry poverty and communism when asked to pay a little more.

A bicyclist pays nothing to ride on the road.
A car is licensed, pays registration and fuel taxes, and is expected to have insurance.
The commercial truckers have increased license testing, pay higher registration fees, insurance, fuel taxes, and are under increased scrutiny to ensure both the public and the environments safety.

To make more, you used more, so you should pay more.

Filo
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 02:59 PM
...
Please have a very nice day. Great day for a blow job huh? :)


I'm confused... what are you offering here? And to whom?

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:03 PM
So no more ships get out or in without paying the fees for the port they're enjoying a rich livelyhood from.

I'm a programmer and I know programmers that are out of work.
The current and past administrations have consistently increased the number of H-1B visas issued (to as high as 195,000 for 2001-2003).
Mostly for technology workers, claiming a shortage of qualified US resident workers.

Offshoring is done under the same claim of necessity.
All the time qualified workers here are left unemployed and the corporations still enjoy every benefit of being rich in a
country they've put out of work.

If I'm making millions while living in this country I would have no problem paying even a higher tax burden.

The average man in the streets is making no direct profit from the bulk of the US goverment spending used to support the
infrastructure of this country.
Corporations on the other hand use our military (both to protect their interests and provide huge contracts), roads, bridges,
seaports, and national forests to make billions, yet cry poverty and communism when asked to pay a little more.

A bicyclist pays nothing to ride on the road.
A car is licensed, pays registration and fuel taxes, and is expected to have insurance.
The commercial truckers have increased license testing, pay higher registration fees, insurance, fuel taxes, and are under increased scrutiny to ensure both the public and the environments safety.

To make more, you used more, so you should pay more.

So your getting a bicycle ???

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:07 PM
So no more ships get out or in without paying the fees for the port they're enjoying a rich livelyhood from.

I'm a programmer and I know programmers that are out of work.
The current and past administrations have consistently increased the number of H-1B visas issued (to as high as 195,000 for 2001-2003).
Mostly for technology workers, claiming a shortage of qualified US resident workers.

Offshoring is done under the same claim of necessity.
All the time qualified workers here are left unemployed and the corporations still enjoy every benefit of being rich in a
country they've put out of work.

If I'm making millions while living in this country I would have no problem paying even a higher tax burden.

The average man in the streets is making no direct profit from the bulk of the US goverment spending used to support the
infrastructure of this country.
Corporations on the other hand use our military (both to protect their interests and provide huge contracts), roads, bridges,
seaports, and national forests to make billions, yet cry poverty and communism when asked to pay a little more.

A bicyclist pays nothing to ride on the road.
A car is licensed, pays registration and fuel taxes, and is expected to have insurance.
The commercial truckers have increased license testing, pay higher registration fees, insurance, fuel taxes, and are under increased scrutiny to ensure both the public and the environments safety.

To make more, you used more, so you should pay more.
Why is it fair that thoes who have worked hard invested wisley should have to pay for thoes who have no asperations to do the same. Everyone in this country has the opertunity to make as much money as they wish if they have no motivation to do the work to get there why should they be rewarded for being lazy? To me that is not fair.

As for the bicyclists not paying anything to ride on the road maybe they should. Some of the money from registering your car goes to pay for road upkeep (eventhough sometimes cities don't do a good job) bicyclists use the road so they should have to pay to help up keep it. Besides that I am tired of having to slow down to 20 MPH just because of these people and as far as there "share the road" protest how about I share the road when you pay to use it like everyone who is driving a car or motorcycle.

Sortarican
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:08 PM
So your getting a bicycle ???

Dude!
Did you just quote that whole fucking thing for the sake of a one liner?

Man.......I feel dirty for rambling on.....but you man......you should be shot.

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:10 PM
Dude!
Did you just quote that whole fucking thing for the sake of a one liner?

Man.......I feel dirty for rambling on.....but you man......you should be shot.


Going to shoot me?
Thank A Republican!!

Devaclis
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:11 PM
LOL Guns don't kill people, dying does!!

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:14 PM
LOL Guns don't kill people, dying does!!
Nope, guns don't kill people bullets do. Guns just get them going really fast.

or if you prefer

Guns don't kill people, massive internal bleeding does.

Filo
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:15 PM
Why is it fair that thoes who have worked hard invested wisley should have to pay for thoes who have no asperations to do the same. Everyone in this country has the opertunity to make as much money as they wish if they have no motivation to do the work to get there why should they be rewarded for being lazy? To me that is not fair.


Like Paris Hilton. She is rich. She must have worked hard. Or any of the Waltons. You know they worked their asses off for their billions. Generalizations are too general :).



As for the bicyclists not paying anything to ride on the road maybe they should. Some of the money from registering your car goes to pay for road upkeep (eventhough sometimes cities don't do a good job) bicyclists use the road so they should have to pay to help up keep it. Besides that I am tired of having to slow down to 20 MPH just because of these people and as far as there "share the road" protest how about I share the road when you pay to use it like everyone who is driving a car or motorcycle.

How many bike riders do you know who don't also own a car? Also, road wear is roughly squarely proportional to the weight of the vehicle. So the same person on a 10# bike does much less damage than on a 400# motorcycle which is less than a 2000# car which is less than a 6000# SUV which is less than a 40000# truck. And that 10 seconds missing from your life slowing down so you don't kill someone - boy, I'll bet you could have spent that working your ass of to get ahead just a little bit more.

Yes, I am cranky. You hamster f*cker.

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:19 PM
Guns don't kill people, Chuck Norris Does

Chuck Norris kills people with guns on occasion to prove that he has a gentle side, after all.

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:19 PM
How many bike riders do you know who don't also own a car? Also, road wear is roughly squarely proportional to the weight of the vehicle. So the same person on a 10# bike does much less damage than on a 400# motorcycle which is less than a 2000# car which is less than a 6000# SUV which is less than a 40000# truck. And that 10 seconds missing from your life slowing down so you don't kill someone - boy, I'll bet you could have spent that working your ass of to get ahead just a little bit more.

Yes, I am cranky. You hamster f*cker.
Nope don't miss the 10 seconds because I just run the fuckers off the road there is a sidewalk that I don't see people walking on. Besides they are suposed to follow the rules of the road and from what I remember from Drivers ed you must obey the speed limits and you are a hazard if you are over/under them. So fuck them.

What the heck is it with you and fucking hamsters? I feel sorry for any pets that you own.

TFOGGuys
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:19 PM
As for the bicyclists not paying anything to ride on the road maybe they should. Some of the money from registering your car goes to pay for road upkeep (eventhough sometimes cities don't do a good job) bicyclists use the road so they should have to pay to help up keep it. Besides that I am tired of having to slow down to 20 MPH just because of these people and as far as there "share the road" protest how about I share the road when you pay to use it like everyone who is driving a car or motorcycle.

Using that argument to support your point of view is like advocating that Miss Piggy get a clitoridectomy because Kermit has a green penis! :wtf:

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:22 PM
Like Paris Hilton. She is rich. She must have worked hard. Or any of the Waltons. You know they worked their asses off for their billions. Generalizations are too general :).

I could care less if you taxed here because she didn't earn it. I was talking about people who did earn they money that they have.

64BonnieLass
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:22 PM
Yes, I am cranky. You hamster f*cker.

:hibye: Hey me too! BTW...what exactly is a hamster f*cker? Or is this just the "word of the day" for the fun of it? :D

I say we BAN Vance and all of Vancelvania FOREVER. How's that for just plain-good-thinking-everybody-wins-politics?

salsashark
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:24 PM
^^ LOL Ms. Piggy...


reminds me of another great thing about this country.
http://marczawel.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/bacon.jpg

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:26 PM
I could care less if you taxed here because she didn't earn it. I was talking about people who did earn they money that they have.


Well many people would highly agree that slackers that fuck off on public forums instead of working did not EARN their paychecks.......:banghead:

Wait a minute, that's me...

Snowman
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:27 PM
Well many people would highly agree that slackers that fuck off on public forums instead of working did not EARN their paychecks.......:banghead:

Wait a minute, that's me...Testify!!!!

TFOGGuys
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:28 PM
http://lovecarrots.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/pervy-gourd.jpg

Filo
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:28 PM
What the heck is it with you and fucking hamsters? I feel sorry for any pets that you own.


:hibye: Hey me too! BTW...what exactly is a hamster f*cker? Or is this just the "word of the day" for the fun of it? :D

The hamster f*cker is from page 6 when Gixxerk2 said (see section D - painted into a corner). Now I am just throwing it out there because I think it is funny. All my pets have passed away, so the furry friends are safe for now. I'm thinking of getting an iguana though. I guess I would be a lizard f*cker at that point.


Why?

What passes as enlightened debate on CSC and the interwebs in general:

A. If you support McCain you're a Nazi, if you support Obama you're a Communist.

B. If you have any religious belief system you should be shot, if you have none you should be shot.

C. I am a victim of (insert your favorite institution, corporation and/or group) and you should all join me in my victimhood.

D. When painted into a corner that could possibly mean conceding a point, disparage your opponent, his views and his family origin/sexual preference.

E. Any post worth a damn should contain several insults and threats to life/limb/property, just because someone doesn't agree with your rational, intelligent and well researched conspiracy theory.

Sortarican
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:29 PM
Why is it fair that thoes who have worked hard invested wisley should have to pay for thoes who have no asperations to do the same....

Sorry my statement wasn't clear to you.

In order for Corp. America to make all that hard earned money they have used more resources of the federal goverment than average american.

I mean, did you use the services of the FAA, US Coast Guard, and several US embassies to make your salary last week?
I know I didn't.
Yet I pay into those things that are only directly profitable to corperate america.
(And yes thats an oversimplification. They are indirectly used by us all I know, but not directly.)

Also, saying they're being asked to pay for the lazy and poor is exactly what they want Middle America to think.
How else can they get people who are struggling make a living to identify with them?

I'm saying if you take a bigger piece of the American Pie, you should get charged more than those eating Top Ramen.

Snowman
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:35 PM
Sorry my statement wasn't clear to you.

In order for Corp. America to make all that hard earned money they have used more resources of the federal goverment than average american.

I mean, did you use the services of the FAA, US Coast Guard, and several US embassies to make your salary last week?
I know I didn't.
Yet I pay into those things that are only directly profitable to corperate america.
(And yes thats an oversimplification. They are indirectly used by us all I know, but not directly.)

Also, saying they're being asked to pay for the lazy and poor is exactly what they want Middle America to think.
How else can they get people who are struggling make a living to identify with them?

I'm saying if you take a bigger piece of the American Pie, you should get charged more than those eating Top Ramen.Yea, how the hell else could Tony Stark ever get the funds need to constuct his suit?

http://juliekinnear.com/imagesall/images-2008/ironman.JPG

Big-J
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:38 PM
Jesus, 9 pages and no one has won this debate yet?
How much shit you guys gonna throw at eachother?

Devaclis
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:39 PM
SHUT UP, YOU!!!

Sortarican
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:40 PM
Yea, how the hell else could Tony Stark ever get the funds need to constuct his suit?

....and buy all that scotch...and burn all those exotic cars up....and screw Pepper Potts?
My point exactly! Finally someone get's what I'm saying. Thank you Randall.

And thank you Adam for not fucking your dead hampster.
(Nobody needs a rodent necrophiliac.)

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:40 PM
Sorry my statement wasn't clear to you.

In order for Corp. America to make all that hard earned money they have used more resources of the federal goverment than average american.

I mean, did you use the services of the FAA, US Coast Guard, and several US embassies to make your salary last week?
I know I didn't.
Yet I pay into those things that are only directly profitable to corperate america.
(And yes thats an oversimplification. They are indirectly used by us all I know, but not directly.)

Also, saying they're being asked to pay for the lazy and poor is exactly what they want Middle America to think.
How else can they get people who are struggling make a living to identify with them?

I'm saying if you take a bigger piece of the American Pie, you should get charged more than those eating Top Ramen.
Well that is your opinion. I just don't agree with it. I don't want to pay for someone who does nothing of less than I do. I can understaind why people who make more then me would not want to support me. I was not raised to ask people for hand outs. I was raised that if you want something you have to earn it. That is my take on it.

64BonnieLass
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:41 PM
clitoridectomy :wtf:

Ouch! That word hurts just looking at it. :eek:

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:41 PM
My point exactly! Finally someone get's what I'm saying. Thank you Randall.
No I get what you are saying I just don't agree with it.

Snowman
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:44 PM
I've been a fan of flushing the current code and put up an 18% sales tax. Everyone pays the same tax no matter what income level you may have. And if you don't want to spend you get to save more of it.

Nick_Ninja
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:44 PM
Scalia for one has been very clear. He does not believe the right to privacy covers abortions. He does not believe abortion is constitutionally protected. 2 more justices with the same view (actually one more would do it), and Roe v. Wade can be overturned.

And Scalia is nothing more than a right-wing, Conservative mouthpiece. And on the flip side the addition of two additional justices to the bench that are of the same mold would do nothing more than assure the legislation of morality.


Also, neither the constitution or the bill or rights expressly provides the "Right to Privacy". Many people read the 9th amendment to provide this, but again, different judges have different opinions.

The Supreme Court, however, beginning as early as 1923 and continuing through its recent decisions, has broadly read the "liberty" guarantee of the Fourteenth Amendment to guarantee a fairly broad right of privacy that has come to encompass decisions about child rearing, procreation, marriage, and termination of medical treatment. Polls show most Americans support this broader reading of the Constitution.



wtf? Cindy McCain? Is she going to be picking the judicial nominees in a McCain administration? Or is she going to be one of them?

Anything is possible under a Republikan regime.

Filo
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:45 PM
Jesus, 9 pages and no one has won this debate yet?
How much shit you guys gonna throw at eachother?


Shut up, hamster f*cker

Big-J
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:48 PM
SHUT UP, YOU!!!


Shut up, hamster f*cker

Are you talking to me? (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3802889096313645067&ei=bNfrSJ2WGIruqAK49YjLDg&q=Are+you+talking+to+me&vt=lf&hl=en)

Devaclis
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:48 PM
I really do like all of you. A lot of you are my good friends. But you are all wrong.

Flying Spaghetti Monster FTW!!!!!

http://www.venganza.org/

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:50 PM
When I am ruller.

I am putting all of you against the wall

TFOGGuys
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:52 PM
Well that is your opinion. I just don't agree with it. I don't want to pay for someone who does nothing of less than I do. I can understaind why people who make more then me would not want to support me. I was not raised to ask people for hand outs. I was raised that if you want something you have to earn it. That is my take on it.

Welcome to the (old Republican/more recently Libertarian) Party!

I work hard for what I have. I tend to be generous when it comes to helping those that are truly less fortunate due to circumstances beyond their control, but I have no tolerance for those that expect the government (pronounced TAKS PAYERS) to provide them with not only the necessities of life, but numerous luxuries, all the while turning up their noses at work they consider "beneath them".

Sortarican
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:54 PM
No I get what you are saying I just don't agree with it.

I don't think you do. You keep going back to the lazy/poor, like that's where the real money is spent.
It's not, it's spent on armies, bridges, and commerce department employees.
Entitlement programs are a drop in the bucket by comparison.
The largest of those by far is Medicare/Medicaid. And those aren't the lazy poor, they're the lazy old and infirmed.

But wether you do or don't get my point, you definitly have the right to your opinion and the right to progress your views in goverment by the way you vote.
In that fact we're all rich in America.

Nick_Ninja
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:55 PM
Welcome to the (old Republican/more recently Libertarian) Party!

I work hard for what I have. I tend to be generous when it comes to helping those that are truly less fortunate due to circumstances beyond their control, but I have no tolerance for those that expect the government (pronounced TAKS PAYERS) to provide them with not only the necessities of life, but numerous luxuries, all the while turning up their noses at work they consider "beneath them".

:imwithstupid: Fuck the Welfare Rats.

TFOGGuys
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:56 PM
I've been a fan of flushing the current code and put up an 18% sales tax. Everyone pays the same tax no matter what income level you may have. And if you don't want to spend you get to save more of it.

How about flushing most of the US Government, AND institute a reasonable sales tax ~3% to cover things like national defense and border control? Let the States apportion their money as they wish, without the USG taking a cust (ie. Highway funds)?

Devaclis
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:57 PM
Look, the man in this picture is obviously the breadwinner (he is a man) yet his shirt is better constructed, made from better materials, and COSTS LESS than the Womans' shirt.

What don't you guys get??? Jeebus.


http://www.easyscreens.info/gallery/20081007/4.jpg

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:58 PM
I don't think you do. You keep going back to the lazy/poor, like that's where the real money is spent.
It's not, it's spent on armies, bridges, and commerce department employees.
Entitlement programs are a drop in the bucket by comparison.
The largest of those by far is Medicare/Medicaid. And those aren't the lazy poor, they're the lazy old and infirmed.

But wether you do or don't get my point, you definitly have the right to your opinion and the right to progress your views in goverment by the way you vote.
In that fact we're all rich in America.


Jeff you are correct we are all rich in America. I was in the Dominican Republic, and our WORST slums were a huge leap up the standards scale.

These people were actually living in areas the resembled Landfills.

BTW there is no personal income tax and they have limited public services

America Rocks

salsashark
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 03:58 PM
I've been a fan of flushing the current code and put up an 18% sales tax. Everyone pays the same tax no matter what income level you may have. And if you don't want to spend you get to save more of it.

werd... I couldn't agree more with this.

Big-J
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:01 PM
We should abloish womens right to vote, that will fix a lot of Americas problems!!

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:01 PM
End Women's Sufferage NOW

Nick_Ninja
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:02 PM
I don't think you do. You keep going back to the lazy/poor, like that's where the real money is spent.
It's not, it's spent on armies, bridges, and commerce department employees.
Entitlement programs are a drop in the bucket by comparison.
The largest of those by far is Medicare/Medicaid. And those aren't the lazy poor, they're the lazy old and infirmed.

But wether you do or don't get my point, you definitly have the right to your opinion and the right to progress your views in goverment by the way you vote.
In that fact we're all rich in America.


Yesssssirreeeebob!

http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/National-Debt-GDP.gif

salsashark
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:04 PM
End Women's Sufferage NOW

Damn the 29th... recreate '08 (1908 )

Bebop
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:05 PM
I don't think you do. You keep going back to the lazy/poor, like that's where the real money is spent.
It's not, it's spent on armies, bridges, and commerce department employees.
Entitlement programs are a drop in the bucket by comparison.
The largest of those by far is Medicare/Medicaid. And those aren't the lazy poor, they're the lazy old and infirmed.

But wether you do or don't get my point, you definitly have the right to your opinion and the right to progress your views in goverment by the way you vote.
In that fact we're all rich in America.
So then tell me why is Communism failing if it is so good? Communism doesn't work because people like to own things.

Devaclis
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:07 PM
Hahaha you are awesome at generalizing and adding negative symbolism. Rock on!!!

Big-J
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:08 PM
We should so send all the lazy Mexicans who are taking all those American jobs we don't want back home, they are a drain on our society!!

Talking shit is fun, now I see why this has gone on for so long!

rforsythe
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:10 PM
So then tell me why is Communism failing if it is so good? Communism doesn't work because people like to own things.

Well, that and the populace has general negative feelings toward governments that drag you out of your home in the middle of the night and disappear you.

Devaclis
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:11 PM
Yeah!! Damn lazy Mexicans!! Good work man, I almost forgot!!



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/devaclis/Funny/beaners.gif

TFOGGuys
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:14 PM
Well, that and the populace has general negative feelings toward governments that drag you out of your home in the middle of the night and disappear you.

It IS kind of inconvenient.... CIA "rendition", anyone?

Big-J
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:20 PM
Come by Saturday morning, my lawn will be waiting for you!:up:



Yeah!! Damn lazy Mexicans!! Good work man, I almost forgot!!



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/devaclis/Funny/beaners.gif

64BonnieLass
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:25 PM
We should abloish womens right to vote, that will fix a lot of Americas problems!!

And there we have it folks!!!! At the end of every good political debate comes...J-E-L-L-O wrestling. Imma kick yo ass homie! :)

Big-J
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:27 PM
And there we have it folks!!!! At the end of every good political debate comes...J-E-L-L-O wrestling. Imma kick yo ass homie! :)

Damn, if I knew talking some dumb shit would get me into a wrestling match with Terri, I would have joined this thread a long time ago!!

In all fairness though, other were talking some dumb shit way before me (I just wanted to join in), so you should probably wrestle them first, but not in Jello, you can save that for me!!

puckstr
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:27 PM
Yeah!! Damn lazy Mexicans!! Good work man, I almost forgot!!



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/devaclis/Funny/beaners.gif


STFU I love Burritos

Shea
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:30 PM
I've been a fan of flushing the current code and put up an 18% sales tax. Everyone pays the same tax no matter what income level you may have. And if you don't want to spend you get to save more of it.

To double quote you... "Testify!!!"

I find it abhorrent that under the current system a good portion of my labor is owned by the state. Slavery, with "representation".

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

Sortarican
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:34 PM
End Women's Sufferage NOW

Ban the bra.....wait!...I mean ban the bra for hot chicks!


So then tell me why is Communism failing if it is so good? Communism doesn't work because people like to own things.

Actually communism was defeated by cold war spending. Spending that we're still paying for.
Capitalism defeated Communism the same way chemotherapy defeats cancer.
By nearly killing the entire system in the hopes that the parts you like out live the parts you don't want.

And BTW, Communism isn't completely failing.
Have you seen how much in US Treasury notes the Communist Chinese goverment holds?
They didn't loose. They're buying us on the installment plan, one WalMart purchase at a time.
And Socialism in the EU is doing better than we are economically and still manages to better educate their children, take care of their poor, and provide healthcare to their people.


We should so send all the lazy Mexicans who are taking all those American jobs we don't want back home, they are a drain on our society!!

And the Canadian to boot.....damn Ice-Backs.


It IS kind of inconvenient.... CIA "rendition", anyone?

I don't get the problem with waterboarding.....looks fun to me:
http://www.hawaiionyourown.com/waikiki06-boogie%20board.jpg

Snowman
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:37 PM
And there we have it folks!!!! At the end of every good political debate comes...J-E-L-L-O wrestling. Imma kick yo ass homie! :)
Warm Oatmeal is where its at my dear... Warm oatmeal, mmmmm..

Big-J
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:37 PM
And the Canadian to boot.....damn Ice-Backs.

Don't even get me started with Canadians, f'in posers! :scream1:

CYCLE_MONKEY
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:52 PM
Yesssssirreeeebob!

http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/National-Debt-GDP.gif
This graph shows me we are much less in debt than we were under Truman, and that, in fact, the curve is MORE favorable under the current Bush administration than it was under Komrade Klinton. To read this graph properly, look at the area under the graph, and the ength of time we spent under it. Look at how, though Klinton's dropped at the end, it spent a majority of the time at a higher level, than Bush has. This, as Klinton was busy dismantling the Armed forces and the Intelligence agencies (that accounts for the savings....by making people uemployed), AND didn't have a war to fight....but that he was partly responsible for by leaving us blind so the terrorists could do 9/11.

Thanks for posting that brotha!:)

CYCLE_MONKEY
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:55 PM
Don't even get me started with Canadians, f'in posers! :scream1:
So, what we need Dana to do is make is a pic with a Kanadian flag with a circle/slash thru it, with a "I'll shovel my own damn driveway myself" sign next to it!:)

The Black Knight
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:55 PM
Typical hypocritical pseudo christian BS (we are not perfect, don't even have to try). Just bugs me how self professed "christians" have so much hatred in them. Guess that is what pushed me away from organized religion.
I have never said there were better countries, I believe it was a republican on this site that mentioned leaving if Obama is elected. The facts are, this country has floundered under the republicans. I hope the American people can see that, and according to the polls they have. There is plenty of dirt on McCain but I prefer to focus on the future and McCain is more the same. Nov 4th will tell the tell. Maybe you should leave and find a good fascist country where you can spew your hatred and be called a patriot for it, one where there is only one opinion and all others a squashed. I'm sure you could find one where the people are ignorant, fear their government, and loathe anyone different than them. I; however, prefer the USA because I can have a say in my government, don't have to be christian, can hold elected officials accountable, and can question my government (which I believe is the most patriotic thing an American can do). On Nov. 4th I shall exercise that right, and it's nice I don't have to believe or adhere to your value system to do so. I do not believe Obama is a terrorist nor a muslim. I do believe dinosaurs never coexisted with humans, earth is older than 6000 years, adam and eve is a parable, the bible was written by men and those men wrote what their superiors wanted ie. King James. I respect your faith in your Karl Roves and Chicken Hawks, dying for those idiots in a bullshit war if it will make you feel better, tell women what they can do with their own bodies, focusing on my family, do as I say not as I do, giving all your money and mine to the very wealthy with this corporate welfare, and worring about same sex couples ruining your God approved marriage, but when you spread lies about others though, all I can say is if there is a hell--see you there.

See, I can't figure out what your hang up is. It's not pseudo-hypocritical christian BS when someone says "they are not perfect". It's actually a common well known fact. What I mean when I say(and this is last time I'm going to explain it to, as it seems to be flying over your head everytime), is that I'm not perfect, nor will I ever be on this earth. However, when I do fall of the wagon, I get back up and try, try again. It's all anyone can do.

I also don't know where you get the "hatred" card from. I never said I hated anyone. Do I have strong dislikes for some, you bet. I own it, and make no bones about it.

As far as leaving the country. Again where are you at? I know you're in Manitou Springs but please look through all the pot smoke, burlap, fairies dancing in the street and witches flying on their brooms and actually make a point that isn't way out there. I don't preach hatred, I preach live and let live. For some reason that severely conflicts with your ideology. That people of faith are complete hate mongers and it's their way or the highway.

I've said it before and time and again. But just so it sinks in your thick head here you go: "I don't care what people do with their lives. Believe how you want to believe and live how you want to live. As long as it does not infringe upon mine, and do not push beliefs into my life and home. This is America and you are free to do as you please, just stop trying to take away my Constitutional rights(read Bill of Rights) and everything will be just fine."






I feel that someone stuck me in a small room to listen to Haggee give his fear-biased mind-programming pitch. I understand where you're coming from and choice not to allow the spin of silliness to affect the peacefulness. Just because something is in our buffet, doesn't mean that we have to eat it.


Actually, my McCain plea was a play on Vance's words. It was comical and nothing more to be taken from it. Done completely in jest, though behind every joke there is some seriousness to it.


We need a good civil war ----- against religion.

I'll be looking for you on the battlefield. :sniper:


Hell yeah! Fuck them whom have died and their fuckin' icons.

You're so profound, I mean yeah the 50-125 million Christians that died violent deaths during the Dark Ages wasn't enough blood shed for you.

Again, I'll be looking for you on the battlefield.


Bebop --- I could care less what you believe in. I believe I'll have another drink. Take your fuckin beliefs, what ever that they may be, and pack sand. I have no use for you. I'll let you live ------- this time. Oh, since this is a motorcycle forum i might as well place all my cards on the table, I don't ride with you kind either.

Feeling is mutual.

Nick_Ninja
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 04:59 PM
<snip>Again, I'll be looking for you on the battlefield.



Feeling is mutual.

Yeppers, the battlefield is where this is going to end up alright. Stay in the springs where you belong. You are not a Coloradan.

Sortarican
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 05:00 PM
..., in fact, the curve is MORE favorable under the current Bush administration than it was under Komrade Klinton....

Dude! Use your good eye. That ain't what it's saying.

Though Junior did manage two slight hiccup drops during his time.

And of course Raygun/Bush just ran that sucker up faster than a coke whore using stolen credit card.

The Black Knight
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 05:04 PM
Yeppers, the battlefield is where this is going to end up alright. Stay in the springs where you belong. You are not a Coloradan.

you make me laugh :lol::lol:

and why would I want to stay in the Springs, I'd much prefer to sack Denver.

Filo
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 05:04 PM
This graph shows me we are much less in debt than we were under Truman, and that, in fact, the curve is MORE favorable under the current Bush administration than it was under Komrade Klinton. To read this graph properly, look at the area under the graph, and the ength of time we spent under it. Look at how, though Klinton's dropped at the end, it spent a majority of the time at a higher level, than Bush has. This, as Klinton was busy dismantling the Armed forces and the Intelligence agencies (that accounts for the savings....by making people uemployed), AND didn't have a war to fight....but that he was partly responsible for by leaving us blind so the terrorists could do 9/11.

Thanks for posting that brotha!:)

Look at the trends Frank. You have to be continuous in the graph (C1 at the very least), since you inherit what your predecessor left you. The slope was negative in the Clinton years after the inflection point early on. Truman's was so high because of the dual effect of the Second World War and low GDP. As we became a consumer economy, GDP increased, so a static debt level means a decreasing graph. GDP grew under Bush at first, so a rising graph means the debt level was rising faster than GDP. That is like you increasing your spending faster than you are getting a raise.

Hamster f*cker.

Sortarican
Tue Oct 7th, 2008, 05:09 PM
Hamster f*cker.

Hey, we're all good Americans here! (Each in our own way.)

I say we exercise our rights/privileges and vote that the Admins change the title of this thread to Hamster f*cker!
(Vote HF in 2008 or the terrorists win!)