McCain's economic fairy tale

[tripledigits]

See today's (Oct. 24) Post editorial by Dave Sirota in section B, page 11. Here's an excerpt:

"In the last 8 years, we the little people have been forced to provide more and more of the taxes fueling America's redistribution machine. As the Congresssional Budget Office reports, the $715 billion in tax breaks that President Bush gave to those making more than $342K a year began dramatically shifting the overall tax burden fron the rich onto the rest of us. Meanwhile, because of lobbyist-crafted loopholes, most corporations pay zero federal income taxes, according to the Government Accountability Office. The result is what Warren Buffet admits: When counting all taxes, billionaires and big Business oftem pay lower effective tax rates than their employees."

This is the system that McCain wants to perpetuate. Get out and vote!

[Devaclis]

Anything positive to say about the candidate you want people to vote for?

[dapper]

I would sell thy presidential vote to the first $900 offer, but I think that's not allowed. :dunno:
At 900 dollars, I can avoid paying taxes, right? :lol:

[Snowman]

Sounds like a redistribution of wealth to me…
Damn Socialists…

[puckstr]

Whatever.... You can find tax loopholes without being "rich".

[MetaLord 9]

Gasp! You mean the ENTIRE country should have to support itself instead of relying solely on a wealthy minority??? BLASPHEMY!!!
[/sarcasm]
[/obama]
[/negativity]
Let's go look at puppies!! :D :D :D

[Big-J]

Let's go look at puppies!! :D :D :D

But then you would have to take your head out your ass. :):p

[Canuck]

:lol:

[Nick_Ninja]

But then you would have to take your head out your ass. :):p

Be nice --- go vote :D

[Devaclis]

Man, people get violent, instead of intelligent, when their choice for pres gets insulted.

Don't worry, whomever wins, the people who voted for him will be bitching about him in a year or two anyway. Enjoy your gloating.

[MetaLord 9]

But then you would have to take your head out your ass. :):p
Sorry, was just trying to see things from your point of view for once :D

[puckstr]

Sorry, was just trying to see things from your point of view for once :D


Nice:)

[~Barn~]

Intelligent and violent; just like I like my woman.

She'll fuck you up, and then proceed to explain to you, why it should have never come to that. :lol:

[The GECCO]

Intelligent and violent; just like I like my woman.

She'll fuck you up, and then proceed to explain to you, why it should have never come to that. :lol:

:spit:

[tripledigits]

Anything positive to say about the candidate you want people to vote for?

Yes, his name is not John McCain.

[puckstr]

Intelligent and violent; just like I like my woman.

She'll fuck you up, and then proceed to explain to you, why it should have never come to that. :lol:

:)
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c279/RodGozinya123/kirk.gif

[Devaclis]

Yes, his name is not John McCain.

VERY insightful. So, you are picking the lesser of 2 evils and not the right candidate for the job? Just curious as I know a lot of people who are basing their choice of candidate not based on their merits, or abilities, or achievements, but because the other candidate is a liar/scamer/cheater/scumbag.

Is the choice of a president important to you? If so, why would you vote this way? Is your wife/husband important to you? Would you choose them the same way?

I do not know how people rationalize their decisions for choosing a person that they see as being in direct control of their financial future, lifestyle, freedoms, safety, and liberties. I would think their would be more thought and insight behind their choice. But hey, it IS a lot easier to call someone an asshole than it is to listen to what you do not want to hear.

vote on ignorant masses.

[puckstr]

VERY insightful. So, you are picking the lesser of 2 evils and not the right candidate for the job? Just curious as I know a lot of people who are basing their choice of candidate not based on their merits, or abilities, or achievements, but because the other candidate is a liar/scamer/cheater/scumbag.

Is the choice of a president important to you? If so, why would you vote this way? Is your wife/husband important to you? Would you choose them the same way?

I do not know how people rationalize their decisions for choosing a person that they see as being in direct control of their financial future, lifestyle, freedoms, safety, and liberties. I would think their would be more thought and insight behind their choice. But hey, it IS a lot easier to call someone an asshole than it is to listen to what you do not want to hear.

vote on ignorant masses.


and to Quote YOU!!
Anything positive to say about the candidate you want people to vote for?

Well?

[Devaclis]

I don't vote. I REFUSE to choose the lesser of 2 evils. Until I find a candidate that I believe in and want to spend my next 4 years with, I will just wait.

[puckstr]

I don't vote. I REFUSE to choose the lesser of 2 evils. Until I find a candidate that I believe in and want to spend my next 4 years with, I will just wait.


Well this is for you....

Ok I believe it too.:(
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2207/2074221914_b82659fc8e.jpg

[Big-J]

Sorry, was just trying to see things from your point of view for once :D

I realize that, thats why I suggested you take your head out your ass, for once you will see the puppies a lot better!

[t_jolt]

See today's (Oct. 24) Post editorial by Dave Sirota in section B, page 11. Here's an excerpt:

"In the last 8 years, we the little people have been forced to provide more and more of the taxes fueling America's redistribution machine. As the Congresssional Budget Office reports, the $715 billion in tax breaks that President Bush gave to those making more than $342K a year began dramatically shifting the overall tax burden fron the rich onto the rest of us. Meanwhile, because of lobbyist-crafted loopholes, most corporations pay zero federal income taxes, according to the Government Accountability Office. The result is what Warren Buffet admits: When counting all taxes, billionaires and big Business oftem pay lower effective tax rates than their employees."

This is the system that McCain wants to perpetuate. Get out and vote!


ahh poor me, i only have to send out 15g a year in taxes. Ahh poor them, they still have to shove out millions in taxes. stop looking at the tax percents. look at the total amount these people are still shelling out. You better believe that they pay a lower percent cause well, just like in the real world, the more you "buy" the less you "pay" for damn near anything. quanity is wonderful thing. Go read that barstool econimics post, it might help explain what im trying to say

Tyrel

[fook]

yay for editorial pieces!

here's another one for you to read:
http://sbk.online.wsj.com/article/SB122463231048556587.html

excerpt:
In 2006, the latest year for which we have Census data, 220 million Americans were eligible to vote and 89 million -- 40% -- paid no income taxes. According to the Tax Policy Center (a joint venture of the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute), this will jump to 49% when Mr. Obama's cash credits remove 18 million more voters from the tax rolls. What's more, there are an additional 24 million taxpayers (11% of the electorate) who will pay a minimal amount of income taxes -- less than 5% of their income and less than $1,000 annually.
In all, three out of every five voters will pay little or nothing in income taxes under Mr. Obama's plans and gain when taxes rise on the 40% that already pays 95% of income tax revenues.


I'm most certainly not pro-McCain. I agree with Devaclas, don't vote for the lesser of two evils, don't give one party your support simply because you don't want "that other guy" getting in. it just perpetuates the crapfest that we have today in both the Democratic and Republican party.

[MetaLord 9]

I have yet to be convinced that Obama is a candidate more worthy of my vote than John McCain. I feel I've been mostly open minded throughout the year and I honestly feel that this is the first election we've had in several years where we actually have ideals vs. ideals and we aren't facing the depressing trudge to the ballot box to choose the lesser of two evils. I prefer John McCain as our President and will certainly voice my opinion once I step into the booth, however, I don't believe that either candidate is incapable of running our country or any more likely to head it into the ground than the other. The beauty of our government is its inability to move quickly. It's beautiful because it ensures that no one person or group of people can bring down the country or take us down the wrong path without EVERYONE knowing and without any chance to stop them/vote them out of office.

Vote your opinion, be able to defend both intelligently and remember that just because your candidate wins or loses, does not make your opinion any more correct than the next guy's.

[dirkterrell]

"In the last 8 years, we the little people have been forced to provide more and more of the taxes fueling America's redistribution machine. As the Congresssional Budget Office reports, the $715 billion in tax breaks that President Bush gave to those making more than $342K a year began dramatically shifting the overall tax burden from the rich onto the rest of us.

Well, this is an easily tested claim with publicly available data from the IRS. I got them here (http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxstats/article/0,,id=96981,00.html).

Of course "little people" isn't a very well defined thing, so let's look at several income groups. Let's start with those making $40K/year or less. According to the IRS data for the years 2000, 2005 and 2006 (latest available), this group paid the following percentage of all income taxes

2000: 8.8%
2005: 5.8%
2006: 5.2%

So, if "little people" means $40K or less, they are shouldering less of a burden of the nation's taxes. Let's look at those making less than $20K:

2000: 1.7%
2005: 0.9%
2006: 0.8%

Same thing for this group, a decreasing fraction of the nation's tax burden in 2006 than in 2000. Less than half in fact.

Now, all the talk is about shifting the burden to "the rich" so let's look at that. Let's define "the rich" as those making $200K/year or more. The percentage of the tax burden on that group is:

2000: 45.8%
2005: 51.3%
2006: 53.2%

So, for that group the tax burden has gotten higher. Ok, let's define "the rich" as those making $500K/year or higher. The numbers for that group:

2000: 30.8%
2005: 34.3%
2006: 35.9%

Same story for that group. Ok, let's just look at the numbers for the top group in the IRS data, those making $10M/year or more. The numbers:

2000: 7.8%
2005: 8.4%
2006: 8.9%

So, the groups with higher income levels paid a higher fraction of the nation's income tax burden in 2006 than in 2000 while those in lower income brackets paid less.

Dirk

[Devaclis]

Rocket Surgery FTW!!!

[Kristian]

Instead of looking at it 'as picking the lesser of two evils', maybe think of it as 'the better of two mediocres'.

[DFab]

Well, this is an easily tested claim with publicly available data from the IRS. I got them here (http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxstats/article/0,,id=96981,00.html).



So, the groups with higher income levels paid a higher fraction of the nation's income tax burden in 2006 than in 2000 while those in lower income brackets paid less.

Dirk

You say the tax burden on the rich is going up. I say they are making a shit ton more money, and paying a SMALLER percentage of their income in taxes. Paying 20% in taxes on an income of 1 million results in a bigger tax "burden" then paying 30% on half a million. If that makes sense.

[t_jolt]

You say the tax burden on the rich is going up. I say they are making a shit ton more money, and paying a SMALLER percentage of their income in taxes. Paying 20% in taxes on an income of 1 million results in a bigger tax "burden" then paying 30% on half a million. If that makes sense.

percent doesnt matter...
look at the final figures
shouldn't the people that pay the most, also see the most for tax breaks?

cause really think it out loud. lets tax the successful for just that, being successful. If this truly how it was, no one would want to do good, cause they wouldnt make any extra for working harder etc...

[dirkterrell]

You say the tax burden on the rich is going up. I say they are making a shit ton more money, and paying a SMALLER percentage of their income in taxes. Paying 20% in taxes on an income of 1 million results in a bigger tax "burden" then paying 30% on half a million. If that makes sense.

Tax burdens for the various income brackets as a percentage of taxable income (same data source):

$10M+/year:

2000: 28.3%
2006: 22.8%

Under $40K/year:

2000: 14.0%
2006: 11.2%

Under $20K/year:

2000: 14.5%
20006: 10.0%

So, all groups are paying a smaller percentage of their income in taxes.

Dirk

[Snowman]

percent doesnt matter...
look at the final figures
shouldn't the people that pay the most, also see the most for tax breaks?

cause really think it out loud. lets tax the successful for just that, being successful. If this truly how it was, no one would want to do good, cause they wouldnt make any extra for working harder etc...
In a word... NO.

Everyone should pay the same percentage no matter what.
That is the ONLY fair way of distributing the tax burden.

Any attempt to get one class to pay more or less is promoting an agenda.

[MetaLord 9]

^^I'll drink to that!

[MetaLord 9]

holy crap I just agreed with randal...now I really DO think I need a drink.

[Snowman]

holy crap I just agreed with randal...now I really DO think I need a drink.The world is a very strange place indeed.

[Kristian]

In a word... NO.

Everyone should pay the same percentage no matter what.
That is the ONLY fair way of distributing the tax burden.

Any attempt to get one class to pay more or less is promoting an agenda.


National sales tax on everything but basic food stuffs. That's the way to even out the tax burden. Everyone pays, even those that earn and live under the radar.

[t_jolt]

In a word... NO.

Everyone should pay the same percentage no matter what.
That is the ONLY fair way of distributing the tax burden.

Any attempt to get one class to pay more or less is promoting an agenda.


i agree with you on this as well. i think flat tax would be the way to go but here is the problem:

you make millions. ill make my salary of say 60k a year. now there are a lot more of us only making 60k a year then there are of you millionaires. now being how damn near everyone is greedy as hell, it would only take 2 people who make 60k a year to say that they wanted you to pay more, cause you make more, just cause they outnumber your 1 vote.

do i think flat tax is a great idea, yes. would it last for long. probably not

[t_jolt]

National sales tax on everything but basic food stuffs. That's the way to even out the tax burden. Everyone pays, even those that earn and live under the radar.


bush tried this about 7 years ago. Apparently though, it was shot down cause it only supported the rich...

[bikernoj]

I don't vote. I REFUSE to choose the lesser of 2 evils. Until I find a candidate that I believe in and want to spend my next 4 years with, I will just wait.

To each his own, I suppose, but if you don't vote you don't get the right to complain about the outcome, IMO (and I use "you" in a broad sense here, not anyone in particular).

Besides, just because you don't like the choices before you doesn't mean you can't make an informed decision anyway. The operative word being "informed" here. Far too many people vote for the wrong person based on campaign lies, media bullshit or unjustified rumors. No matter what you hear, remember that opinion is NOT fact, it's just what a lot of people choose to believe (like the belief that the world was flat a few centuries ago). :crazy:

Not all choices are what we want them to be, but if you know what you're getting you can at least prepare for what might happen next.

[Devaclis]

To each his own, I suppose, but if you don't vote you don't get the right to complain about the outcome, IMO (and I use "you" in a broad sense here, not anyone in particular).

This is tossed around a lot and you know what? It is TOTAL bullshit. I have every right in the world to complain about the outcome. By NOT choosing either party, I am making a decision, my LACK of a vote DOES count. Why does everyone pull this shit?

This is not directed at you man, just everyone who pulls this silly little line out of their asses. Is it something you guys came up with all on your own? Is it something you peeps just made up here, on the spot? Or is it something you heard from someone waaaaay back when and never really put any thought into what that statement meant?

I chose to live in this country. If I do not like something I can try to change it, if I feel it is worth it, OR, I can bitch about it. You can't take that right away from me with a 50 year old, outplayed, over utilized, grossly false statement like that.

Sorry, that little line irks the ever loving fuck out of me. And again, not directed at YOU man, just those who use that line as a cop-out to try to ignore those of us who ACTIVELY choose not to pick the least corrupt mother fucker for the job.

[Snowman]

“You can choose a ready guide”
“In some celestial voice”
“If you choose not to decide”
“You still have made a choice”

RUSH - Freewill

All hail the trio...

[~Barn~]

So Dana, are you just going to not vote for the office of POTUS, or are you going to skip out on the election as a whole?

And you haven't mentioned anything about offering a write-in candidate or anything like that. That would be another viable option that seems a little more justifiable than simply obstaining from voting. IMO anyway. Especially if you feel the entitlement to (potentially) complain. :dunno:

Not that I'm not suggesting you don't have the right to do whatever you feel like, but you can't blame people for perhaps confusing your stance with apathy, even if it's a conscious decision for you. (?)

[Devaclis]

Apathy has nothing to do with it. I have stated why I will not vote. Until the circumstances on which I base my decision change, it will remain that way. Someone has to run this country. I do not know of 1 person perfect for that job. Same goes for state and local levels. Why should my stance change just because it is not a selection for Prez?

I am a stubborn, hard headed person. I am not ignorant. I will not make major decisions that are ignorant.

[Snowman]

At least go and vote no on retaining judges…
I have always firmly believe no one should have that kind of power for long.


Oh and vote down Amendment 48 while you are at it.

[MetaLord 9]

The statement stems from the idea that if you aren't invested enough to try to change your circumstances then you have nothing with which to substantiate your opinions. I understand that inaction is still, in this case, action. Obstaining i still having an opinion. In this particular instance (and yes I know of the extenuating circumstances, Dana), I would say that, considering the posibility of a write-in ballot, expressing your opinion & exercising your voice when asked the question is a civic duty, honor, and privilege that I would neither take lightly, nor pass me by.

[~Barn~]

So it sounds to me like you're not going to vote on any of the amendements and referenda then, either? You're just not participating across the board? This is the largest Colorado ballot in over 100 years, ya know.

So yeah... Wow... I can understand your POV to a certain extent, but I dunno... There are all kinds of important issues at hand here, and they don't all fall into the party vs. party (or person vs. person) category, that you seem to take umbrage with.

Not voting is your prerogative though, so more power to you. But doing-so, and later complaining about something you could have voiced an opinion on though, will not find you an audience I fear. Then again, it maybe shouldn't.

[Big-J]

IMO, the real cop-out is not voting because no body meets your standards, not doing anything about, and complaining about the whole system.

[~Barn~]

Shut the fuck up Donny, you're out of your element.




<------- Cracks himself up.

[Canuck]

Oh and vote down Amendment 48 while you are at it.

Also Amendment 47.

[modette99]

..

[dirkterrell]

Meanwhile, because of lobbyist-crafted loopholes, most corporations pay zero federal income taxes, according to the Government Accountability Office.

I think I found the report that he is talking about here (http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08957.pdf). It looks like among all US corporations , about 67% paid no income tax. If you look at large corporations ($50M gross or more, the ones people usually like to vent at :) ), about 25% of those paid no income tax in 2005 (latest year available) and the number has been on the decline since 2001). I need to dig into the tables later and see but I'd bet most of those used the clever loophole of not making a profit. (sarcasm alert for the ill-prepared...)

Dirk

[modette99]

The companies might not of paid income taxes, but how about all the employees that are typically hired in such companies. How much did the employee base for a company like Microsoft pay for the year??? How many jobs were created in that year? If one of these companies closes their doors, we would be in more trouble economically then what the stock market has caused.

With jobs created by a corporation, the more money the Government gets by the employees paying taxes. The more money the company makes the more the employees get paid, thus more taxes being paid.

I had to vote with my wallet, thus is why I did not go with Obama. Under his plan, We would have to pay another $6K a year, not to mention probably more with his other plans that are not factored in. Our we rich, maybe to some because we make $120K a year. I do not feel rich. This is with just my wife working, if I worked we be looking at $160K-$180K a year house hold income, even then we would not feel "rich".

[DFab]

I never did understand why people think the rich should support them, well life is not fair. Why not instead of bitching about how crappy life is for you that you go and invent something or start a business or re-educate yourself so you can make more money. This is what is still great about this country anyone can become a somebody. Look at McCain

I would like to be a somebody... Anybody know any wealthy heiresses?

[MetaLord 9]

Well I happen to have a-wait. did you say "heiresses" or "harry asses?"

[The Black Knight]

This is tossed around a lot and you know what? It is TOTAL bullshit. I have every right in the world to complain about the outcome. By NOT choosing either party, I am making a decision, my LACK of a vote DOES count. Why does everyone pull this shit?

This is not directed at you man, just everyone who pulls this silly little line out of their asses. Is it something you guys came up with all on your own? Is it something you peeps just made up here, on the spot? Or is it something you heard from someone waaaaay back when and never really put any thought into what that statement meant?

I chose to live in this country. If I do not like something I can try to change it, if I feel it is worth it, OR, I can bitch about it. You can't take that right away from me with a 50 year old, outplayed, over utilized, grossly false statement like that.

Sorry, that little line irks the ever loving fuck out of me. And again, not directed at YOU man, just those who use that line as a cop-out to try to ignore those of us who ACTIVELY choose not to pick the least corrupt mother fucker for the job.
Honestly, and I'm sure you'll freak that I'm agreeing with you. But I completely support anyone's "RIGHT" not to vote. If someone/anyone chooses not to vote, then that is completely their choice and they should not be lambasted for it.

People saying you have no right to complain isn't right either. I think everyone/anyone has the right to complain even if they didn't vote for a specific person or congress.

And while some may throw the "if you didn't vote you can't complain" card around, it holds very little water. To an extent they may be right in the fact that, if you "had" voted then maybe something may have passed that didn't or vice versa. However, if you as an individual feel a specific issue isn't worth your vote, then you've got every right under the sun to note cast your vote.

I believe one of the most sacred things an American citizen has(aside from the Bill of Rights) is your VOTE. By casting a vote, you cast basically your beliefs or point of view on issues. If an issue raised, doesn't meet your criteria of voting or your beliefs. Then by all means don't vote for it.

I think people come down to hard on those who don't exercise their "vote" and it's a shame. Myself, I firmly would stand with you on this issue, as I believe your vote is sacred. It should be used when you choose or when you choose not.



At least go and vote no on retaining judges…
I have always firmly believe no one should have that kind of power for long.

Gettin kinda creepy around here, with me being in absolute agreement with you on this issue. HAHA

No seriously, I firmly believe in giving judges the boot every election year. People in that kind of position and power, regardless of their politics should be removed.

These people get in office and end up in that position for decades and it corrupts them. Eventually they feel they have ascended to deity status and are completely removed from the common man.

In total agreement with you here, I voted NO across the board on judges.


So it sounds to me like you're not going to vote on any of the amendements and referenda then, either? You're just not participating across the board? This is the largest Colorado ballot in over 100 years, ya know.

So yeah... Wow... I can understand your POV to a certain extent, but I dunno... There are all kinds of important issues at hand here, and they don't all fall into the party vs. party (or person vs. person) category, that you seem to take umbrage with.

Not voting is your prerogative though, so more power to you. But doing-so, and later complaining about something you could have voiced an opinion on though, will not find you an audience I fear. Then again, it maybe shouldn't.
Is it such a bad thing that he doesn't participate in our own State's election either? Whether it be our largest or smallest election in history is irrelevant.

When I was younger(after turning 18) I didn't vote. Why? for one I had to real interest in politics. I was sort of removed from many of the issue's, some I was aware of but didn't care to vote on.

I always felt that there was too much corruption in politics and felt that lending my vote in such a system would only add to more corruption. I didn't like politicians then and I still don't now.

It's been 10 years since then, and I still hold some views as I did when I was younger. I've changed alot though and I feel personally that I should vote. I think our country is alot different then what it was when I was in junior high and highschool and I believe it demands that more if it's populace vote now more than ever.

For me it's always been a catch 22. I've felt that all politicans are corrupt and greedy. Yet sometimes I want to believe what some have to say and believe they are trying to work for the people.

A view that I will hold however until the day I die. Is you can't trust a politician any further that you can throw them.

[TFOGGuys]

Well, this is an easily tested claim with publicly available data from the IRS. I got them here (http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxstats/article/0,,id=96981,00.html).

*snip*
Dirk
Stop trying to confuse them with verifiable factual data.....rhetoric driven harangues are MUCH more entertaining.....

[dirkterrell]

Stop trying to confuse them with verifiable factual data.....rhetoric driven harangues are MUCH more entertaining.....

Forgive me. I'm a scientist, not a politician. :)

Dirk

[MattTLS]

Apathy has nothing to do with it. I have stated why I will not vote. Until the circumstances on which I base my decision change, it will remain that way. Someone has to run this country. I do not know of 1 person perfect for that job. Same goes for state and local levels. Why should my stance change just because it is not a selection for Prez?

I am a stubborn, hard headed person. I am not ignorant. I will not make major decisions that are ignorant.

Just an idea, Dana -- vote 'present'

[derekm]

Ive contemplated living near the beach in Mexico doing wheelies all over and drinking botteled water...until I found out I have a kid on the way. lol

ps- is there a "candidates and amendments for dummies"?

[Devaclis]

IMO, the real cop-out is not voting because no body meets your standards, not doing anything about, and complaining about the whole system.

Know anyone who fits that description? I would like to meet them.

I am hoping you were not referring to me. I would like you to read my posts again and point out where I complained about the whole system. Like I said before, education.

[dapper]

Big J meant to say, sell your Honda and use the money to buy some weed. :lol:

I feel that anyone who wants the power of a President and uses the word 'need' to rally the citizens, troops and foreign countries -must- be questioned.
Need and greed might be synonyms. :confused:

[MetaLord 9]

Just an idea, Dana -- vote 'present'
Obama for Present-dent! :lol: :lol:

[Sortarican]

Whatever.... You can find tax loopholes without being "rich".

The middle/upper middle class basically have home interest they can write off.
If you're lower/mid/upper-mid and don't own a home you need 10K+ in deductions to even begin to itemize.
So basically you have to be supporting a spouse dying of cancer while putting yourself through college adn raising a bling child in order
to rack up enough deductions to begin to access any "loopholes".
At which point you're pretty much fooked anyway.


This is tossed around a lot and you know what? It is TOTAL bullshit. I have every right in the world to complain about the outcome....
Can't you find any issues/candidates on the ballot you feel worthy of your vote?
At the local level there's still some people that haven't (completely) prostituted themselves.
And you could always do a write in if you feel neither candidate worthy.
If all the disenfranchised non-voters like yourself showed up and cast a vote of no confidence that in itself might trigger some positive change.


...“If you choose not to decide”
“You still have made a choice” RUSH - Freewill All hail the trio...

Dude, a Rush quote is probably the LAST thing that would influence Dana.

Now throw up a couple lines of Neil Diamond's "America" and we might get him to the polls.


At least go and vote no on retaining judges….
+1 "When in doubt, Vote 'em out."
Unless I've had personal experience with them or am familiar with their record and support it.


.. It looks like among all US corporations , about 67% paid no income tax...

Like Leona Helmsley said:
"Only little people pay taxes."
And Corp America use the lion's share of federal resources to make their profits, yet dodge paying for it whenever possible.



.....rhetoric driven harangues are MUCH more entertaining.....
:cheers:
Here! Here!....We'll have none of your damn "facts" muddying the waters Dirk!


Forgive me. I'm a scientist, not a politician. :)
Dirk

I know what I'm getting Dirk for X-Mas. (The shirt....not the chick.)
http://rlv.zazzle.com/back_off_man_im_a_scientist_shirt-p2352917632279348071k_125.jpg

[Devaclis]

The issue I have with that is that I do not know who I would write in. I do not know anyone on this planet that I would personally trust to do the job in line with my beliefs. I am not against the system, or electing a president. It is the fitness of the character that I do vote for that is the issue.

I have been looking hard at local offices and I really cannot find any good, unbiased information to help me decide who I would like to choose. I wish it were easier. It comes down to my willingness to do the research on each candidate and get a solid feel for their platforms and past political behaviors, and how much it really matters to me.

Hell, I can't find one decent, moral person to vote for in the Highlands Ranch Home Owners Ass-ociation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devaclis http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/showthread.php?p=372077#post372077)
This is tossed around a lot and you know what? It is TOTAL bullshit. I have every right in the world to complain about the outcome....

Can't you find any issues/candidates on the ballot you feel worthy of your vote?
At the local level there's still some people that haven't (completely) prostituted themselves.
And you could always do a write in if you feel neither candidate worthy.
If all the disenfranchised non-voters like yourself showed up and cast a vote of no confidence that in itself might trigger some positive change.

[Sortarican]

The issue I have with that is that I do not know who I would write in....

Picard 2008?

[Devaclis]

Picard is OK but has issues with children, Borgs, and his past with his brother are sketchy. Plus he has a mechanical heart.

[Sortarican]

Picard is OK but has issues with children, Borgs, and his past with his brother are sketchy. Plus he has a mechanical heart.

Then here's a candidate with a personal message for you:


TICK/ARTHUR 2008
Change You Can Be Confused By!
http://ublib.buffalo.edu/lml/comics/pages/images/tick-graphic.jpg

Egad Dana! Not voting is like letting a stranger order your pizza.
But it's no ordinary pizza, Chum. It's a great big pizza pie I like to call FREEDOM!

Sure you might get lucky and find it tasty, with warm gooey cheese, and scrumptious toppings.
But in that apathetic path danger lies little buddy.
Danger in the form of onions, anchovies, and pineapple......PINEAPPLE DANA!

YOU CAN'T JUST PICK THE ONIONS OFF THE PIZZA OF JUSTICE MAN!

[Devaclis]

Great, now I'm hungry.....







for JUSTICE!!!

[puckstr]

The middle/upper middle class basically have home interest they can write off.
If you're lower/mid/upper-mid and don't own a home you need 10K+ in deductions to even begin to itemize.
So basically you have to be supporting a spouse dying of cancer while putting yourself through college adn raising a bling child in order
to rack up enough deductions to begin to access any "loopholes".
At which point you're pretty much fooked anyway.




hint: Start your own business.

Or a church :slappers:

[dirkterrell]

Like Leona Helmsley said:
"Only little people pay taxes."
And Corp America use the lion's share of federal resources to make their profits, yet dodge paying for it whenever possible.


Yet, that claim is entirely unsupported by the IRS data I referenced. The small corporations (the "little people", i.e. family businesses) are the ones that have the highest rate of not paying corporate income taxes. And most of those I would bet don't pay income tax because they didn't make a profit. They damn sure provide a lot of jobs to people though, and those people do pay personal income taxes. I would like to see some real data backing up the claim that "corporate America uses the lion's share of federal resources..."

Dirk

[VFR]

I LIKE BACON

[puckstr]

I LIKE BACON

Bacon FTW:hump:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2jyti_bacon-with-macon_fun

[Sortarican]

... I would like to see some real data backing up the claim that "corporate America uses the lion's share of federal resources..." Dirk
I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe you used the U.S. Embassy services in Beijing to help negotiate trade and customs regulations
related to your off-shoring of the production of widget sub-assemblies for your manufacturing
plant in Taiwan this month.
Or possibly enjoyed the Army Corp of Engineers dredging of the Mississippi river basin
so that your exports of iron ore from your mining concerns can more readily access
the international shipping ports in Mobile and New Orleans.
Me? I drove eight miles to work.

Yes, that's an oversimplification, but even taking "trickle down" into account I believe corporations using gov. resources
to get rich should pay a higher percentage than individuals using less resources to get by.

[MetaLord 9]

Bacon FTW:hump:
Now you too can make everything taste like glorious, sumptuous BACON!!!

http://www.baconsalt.com

[dirkterrell]

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe you used the U.S. Embassy services in Beijing to help negotiate trade and customs regulations
related to your off-shoring of the production of widget sub-assemblies for your manufacturing
plant in Taiwan this month.
Or possibly enjoyed the Army Corp of Engineers dredging of the Mississippi river basin
so that your exports of iron ore from your mining concerns can more readily access
the international shipping ports in Mobile and New Orleans.
Me? I drove eight miles to work.


But, it's the big corporations that mostly pay the corporate income taxes so what's the problem?

Dirk