PDA

View Full Version : Oh need opinons on immigration



Cat118!
Mon Oct 27th, 2008, 08:00 PM
Ok ok not to make this a war thread.
But I am writing a paper on illegal immigrations and would just like to hear ideas of a solution....or if you think there is not a prob.....or what needs to change............so on...thoughts please


ok carry on

mtnairlover
Mon Oct 27th, 2008, 08:13 PM
Problems? Lots.

First, lots of people come to this country because it's the "Land of Opportunity" and the immigrants take jobs that not many Americans would...migrant workers comes to mind. This in and of itself isn't necessarily a problem. What might be a bigger problem would be the fact that a lot of migrant workers tend to send their money home, rather than spend it here. Sure they need a place to stay while here and food to eat and clothes to wear, but they also live with several families to a home/apartment. The bottom line is even though farmers can make money, the money that migrant workers make doesn't completely stay here.

Ok, so another problem...migrant workers have children and they are expected to be in school. Many of them don't speak the language. So, if the school and district can't provide enough bi-lingual teachers (public education is already short-funded), then the school(s) lose out on more funding because they don't meet NCLB standards with poor overall test scores.

Ok, so I'm speaking negatives about migrant workers. Here's another angle...look at all the good that comes from migrant workers. Our farms are harvested and that does create product and money for the farmers who in turn buy the seed they need for the next harvest, as well as the fertilizer, the machinery, etc. Many farmers see their migrant workers as a great aid to their existance.

How about looking at maybe immigrants who have contributed to more than just the farmers of our country. Like are there any who have had major scientific breakthroughs while here in America? Are there any immigrants who have come to this country to escape political tirany only to do many good things here?

I can find more, but that's it for now.;)

mtnairlover
Mon Oct 27th, 2008, 08:27 PM
3 websites with info on illegal immigration, as well.

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2006_10_16/us/immigrants_make_wages_better.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration

http://www.cis.org/topics/illegalimmigration.html

:)

RCStylin'
Mon Oct 27th, 2008, 09:21 PM
Illegal immigrants are humans, too. I would do the same exact thing if I were in their situation. That being said, I don't think we are handling it correctly as of now in this country. We should give them citizenship automatically if they come here so we can tax them. More tax = more money for education (both teaching them english and teaching us spanish).

Change happens. Peeps who think we should build a fence should take their head out of the sand (or their ass). It's not gonna work. They're gonna come over in droves no matter what you do. Building a 3000-mile fence and manning it is a pipe dream that's never gonna happen. Especially since the republicans aren't going to win this election :)

Think about it...if you lived in a shanty hutt, had to eat dirt because you have no money, and you were staring at your wife and children starving every day, what would you do (don't say get a job, because there aren't any in poor areas of Mexico)? You'd cross the border and take your chances. It's gonna happen...it's the humanitarian steps the U.S. takes after it happens that's gonna fix it.

Please...someone justify the fence so I can have a good laugh!

Big-J
Mon Oct 27th, 2008, 10:04 PM
Build a fence!!! They took our jobs!!

Cat118!
Mon Oct 27th, 2008, 10:11 PM
so what would you guys do as a solution... the free money ...the free health care... the jobs that they get. If you were Prez what would you do to start putting order in it?

ihavealegohead
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 07:06 AM
Ok ok not to make this a war thread.
But I am writing a paper on illegal immigrations and would just like to hear ideas of a solution....or if you think there is not a prob.....or what needs to change............so on...thoughts please


ok carry on

Here are a couple of unpopular ideas for your paper -- but easy to make an argument for:

Educate them, keep them healthy. Not doing so would be more of a drag on society then letting them fend for themselves. Can you imagine a few million immigrants in Denver who have never been immunized? It costs more to fix them later then it does to get them healthy after they have a life threatening illness.

If you want to stop the floods if immigrants coming into the US: Eliminate the conditions in the country from which they come that causes them to leave in the first place. Invest in Mexico, eliminate crime, bring crime families down, etc.

Bebop
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 07:10 AM
I think Robin Williams had one of the best solutions. Pull our troops out from every country that we are in (they don't want us there anyway) bring them back here and put them on the border and give them orders to shoot people crossing on site.

Mental
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 09:38 AM
Immigration is a multifacedted problem like any other issue facing this country. The notion of a single solution such as "arrest them" Build a fence" or legalize all of them is stupid and short cited.

It was alluded to before, living conditions suck beyond most of our capacity to imagine in sections of Mexico. They suck so bad these folks are willing to risk their lives to cross the boarder. Wrap your head around that, you are so destitute that the possibility of death is not a deterrent. Those folks die from exposure, attacks, and smugglers leaving them to die in railroad cars.

Now, that death is not a deterrent, you can bet being here illeagally is not one either. But it does create an enviroment wheer the less scrupulous can take advantage. Who is going to rat out a drug dealer child protitution ring or habitual DUI offender in a community full of illeagals? So we are left with pockets of population where the immagrants we don't want can hide and flourish.

An issue of this magnitude requires a multi pronged approch. First we have to work a plan to allow for those who are here working hard to attian legal citizenship. It cost several thousand dollars to do the process and that needs to be much cheaper and streamlined. The idea that was propsed about providing proof you had been working is a good solution. 2nd it needs to be easier for law biding hard working Mexicans to enter this country. By accomplishing these two actions, you will reduce the flow of illeagals across the board, which is the only way pt #3 can work. Secure the boarder. I am not worried about a laborer who wants to come here and work. I honestly don't care if they send money home. But what does scare me is the vast unsecured board. Some esitmates say that 275,00 NON-Mexican illeagls have crossed that boardder. Of the 6 terrorist that were planning to attack Ft Dix a few years ago, 4 of them got in that way. When all of the workers can come here easier, then you can make a sfae assumtion those crossing are not coming to do good things and enforcement can get a lot more agressive becuase the chance you are engaging someone with deadly force that is a real threat goes up. That will alos allow these newly legal immagrants to police their own community and purge the dangerous members.

Anyone who feels that the hispanic influence is ruining this nation needs to look over the list of KIA's in Afghanistan and Iraq and see how many of thrir names end in vowels. Furthermore, if you can't cite what tribe you are from you need to remember you are a decendent of an immigrant and at one time you were considered the problem. Irish, Germans, Scandinavians, Asians etc etc etc, they all had their big movements into this country and changed the way we do things.

Anyone who thinks they are ruining our economy needs to be prepared to pay $5 for a Tomato.

Finally, and I have said this to everyone who will listen and a few that won't.

Mexicans will save us all.

Consider every aspect of a Islamic Fundalmentalist Nutcase (not a true Muslim, just the extremist). They have no family (wife and children) Thay hate our way of life. The believe Christianity is evil and the Pope is the devil. They don't wish to work, they protect nothing and cite nothing but pure hate. Take any aspect of what they believe and what they do and the polar oppisite is a Catholic Mexican. Not a marker eyebrow troublemaker, but a true conservative matrirchail Mexican. They believe in family, the sacred power of La Familia. Mothers are the most powerful members of a family, not kept in burkas and have acid thrown at them when their face is exposed. They believe in hard work and honest pay. They believe in education and making life better for their children. They are patriots and join the military in droves. They believe in God and country. They have family dinners and celebrate holidays. They dance and drink and embrace the joy of life.

When it finally comes to us or them, I want as many of these Mexicans on our side as well can get.

But thats just my opinion, YMMV.

So not only do I want to allow them here, I also want forced deportation of 5th generation welfare scamming breeding 7 kids in a trailer park who refuse to work. But thats where my theory gets a little extreme.

asp_125
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 09:58 AM
They come here quietly and next thing you know they are working alongside us, taking our ice rinks, and passing on their foreign customs like poutine and hockey and saying "eh"....

:)

Speaking as an immigrant from the great white north, I disagree with instant citizenship or citizenship by occupation. If they came here illegally they need to go through all the hoops to become legal first before getting citizenship.

puckstr
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 09:59 AM
I think Robin Williams had one of the best solutions. Pull our troops out from every country that we are in (they don't want us there anyway) bring them back here and put them on the border and give them orders to shoot people crossing on site.


That goes for the CANADIAN border too

jimwallace
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 10:03 AM
well i have to say rcstylin is partly right but also partly wrong. here is where he is wrong. if we give them automatic citizenship what makes you think they will act as a u.s. citizen. the problem with that is that many of them love mexico more than america and will still do the same thing they are doing now (sending their money back home). you are right about what would you do though. i know i would do the same thing. ...... here is my solution. keep illegal crossings difficult (a wall wont stop it so no point in trying) but we can continue to make it difficult. the key step here is to make immigration more streamlined because those who do want to be citizens have to wait years and jump through so many hoops it is ridiculous. if we streamline it and make it more efficient then those who want to become american and a productive part of OUR SOCIETY will be able to do so.

Devaclis
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 10:07 AM
I cannot sensibly post on this subject as I really do not know enough about the current immigration laws to back up my feelings. I think immigration is great. I think illegal immigration is wrong. You can either change the laws or enforce them. Right now, not too much is happening to do either.

Mental
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 10:18 AM
That goes for the CANADIAN border too
You gotta watch them. Those sneaky canuks are trying to be Mexican.
http://l.yimg.com/img.tv.yahoo.com/tv/us/img/site/98/84/0000049884_20080710174118.jpg

Miss Canada 2008

http://www.dancewithshadows.com/pageants/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/elisa-bikini-winner.jpg

Miss Mexico 2008

They even have a Miss Latina Canada Pagent.....

pilot
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 10:25 AM
Solution: The United States of North America. We are so already intertwined.

I have the honor to work directly with both Canadians and Mexicans. Hard working and respectable. Just like us!

I`m Batman
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 10:31 AM
The Great Wall of China... we can build something like that at the border and put snipers up there.

I agree with Dana... "I think immigration is great. I think illegal immigration is wrong."

jimwallace
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 10:49 AM
i kinda like pilots solution also..........just take over

Mother Goose
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 11:06 AM
Send whitey home!! They took my land! :lol:

CYCLE_MONKEY
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 11:53 AM
I really resent when people say that one ethic group alone is "willing to take the jobs Americans aren't". Sorry, but that's patent bullsh!t. My grandparents were all LEGAL immigrants, and as Americans THEY took those jobs. Hell, I took those jobs when I was younger before I got an education (NOT at taxpayer expense) and the skills needed to get a good job.

So, I'm FOR LEGAL immigration, dead set against ILLEGALS (not the BS PC "undocumented" term for what they really are) from any nation. Look at the crime the illegals are causing. Anyone that thinks otherwise is blind to the changes that have occurred in Bakersfield CA (and similar places), right here in Longmont, Denver, and Greeley etc. over the last 20 years or so since I lived here last. The mentality that gives them the feeling of entitlement to things we as legal American citizens work for is the same mentality that makes them feel above the law. And hey, if they do something really bad, they just cross back into mexico, and come back her within a week under a different name.

Then there's Bob (damn Kanadians)......but that's another story......:)

Filo
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 12:13 PM
So much hatred, so little thought...

I say send back ALL immigrants (illegal or legal) going back three generations (if you were born before 1920 you get to stay) plus all their offspring. That will really change things. We don't need them anyway.

Right, I am heading off to California to pick lettuce at $0.01 a head. Later.

jimwallace
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 12:29 PM
cycle monkey is right about the criminal activities. he forgot to mention the fact that if they are caught doing a crime then they usually are let go or are sent back to mexico with no real punishment for their crimes then they just come back over and do it again, because as a non citizens they are not subject to the penalties of our judicial system.

Captain Obvious
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 12:49 PM
I agree on several points Mental made, however he is way off base with his "Mexicans will save us all." He is just saying that to get points at home. Immigration, like many other issues facing America, is not an easy fix, nor will one action resolve the issue.

Border security must be increased. Increased staffing and budget will help, but I personally think "The Wall" is an unrealistic solution. Sure, it worked for the Chinese against the Mongolians, but Mexicans are far more ingenious.

Immigration. Our current system is okay, however if all services were changed and functioned more like a private business, effectiveness and speed to be legalized would improve. Not saying make it private, but the bureaucracy of the system has made it (and many other govt. services) grind to a halt.

Deportation. I say let ICE gather up everyone who is ILLEGAL and load them into a large boat. Take them to the Northern tip of the Yucatan Peninsula and dump them out. After making several trips south and then north again to get back to the border, if they make it, they can become LEGAL immigrants. That is the kind of gumption and goal oriented people the U.S. needs, not people who want to drink free from the tit of the U.S. Also, it is stupid to issue citations to IILEGALS

Medical impact on the U.S. The estimated cost of unreimbursed medical care in 2004 in California was about $1.4 billion per year. This is due to ILLEGAL immigrants who used and did not pay for the health care services. It would be cheaper to build hospitals for uninsured individuals and send them to those hospitals. Sure, the care would not be equal, but what do you expect, you aint paying for it! The notion that all people deserve equal medical attention is silly. You get what you pay for. That would lower the cost on paying customers and allow people to spend their money in other ways, which will always impact the economy in positive fashion. Our health care system has enough issues, the last thing it needs is to give out over-priced services for free.

LEGAL immigrants welcome. ILLEGAL immigrants not. Follow the rules, work the system and become legal. And that applies to all nationalities. Yes, some of us are lucky enough to be born in the U.S. versus other countries. Well, some of us were lucky to be born able to run a 4.3 40 yard dash and get paid millions for playing sports. Luck of the draw, play the hand you are dealt.

Captain Obvious
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 12:52 PM
I really resent when people say that one ethic group alone is "willing to take the jobs Americans aren't". Sorry, but that's patent bullsh!t. My grandparents were all LEGAL immigrants, and as Americans THEY took those jobs. Hell, I took those jobs when I was younger before I got an education (NOT at taxpayer expense) and the skills needed to get a good job.

Americans aren't willing to take certain jobs due to the pay. If these crap jobs couldn't find people to work for $10 a day, they would be forced to pay more and at some point, the pay would be high enough that Americans WOULD be willing to do the job.

Some of this is also due to the attitude of many people today that manual labor is beneath them. Apparently if you can't find a job, then you are not that "special" therefore, manual labor might be your destiny. The world needs ditch diggers as well, we can't all be president.

Captain Obvious
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 12:54 PM
You gotta watch them. Those sneaky canuks are trying to be Mexican.
http://l.yimg.com/img.tv.yahoo.com/tv/us/img/site/98/84/0000049884_20080710174118.jpg

Miss Canada 2008

http://www.dancewithshadows.com/pageants/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/elisa-bikini-winner.jpg

Miss Mexico 2008

They even have a Miss Latina Canada Pagent.....

Canadian, Mexican, who cares. I would love to go south of the border.

Raptor
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 12:57 PM
As already stated, legal immigration is great! It's how my grandparents established themselves here and assimilated American society to positively contribute to the American system.

The term "illegal immigrant" does not accurately describe the majority of these tax-burdening law breakers though. An immigrant is someone who assimilates into their host land. The problem we are facing now has more to do with illegal colonists, for lack of a better term.

In either case, the idea that invisible, unwritten amnesty rules can override American law is ludicrous and an insult to anyone who respects law. Without even getting into the array of laws being broken for an illegal to remain here and make a living, consider just the idea that laws exist for anyone who wishes to enter the borders of our country. All of these laws are being swept under the rug which fractures the integrity of any written law addressing social establishment.

My opinion is that allowing the population of illegal colonists to grow on American soil is dangerous! There are too many loopholes that protect them in the event of a serious or violent crime. How many times do we read of an illegal who was released over and over for DUI who eventually winds up killing somebody? Remember the Baskin Robbins incident a couple weeks ago where a child was among I believe three dead, killed by an illegal? That was exactly that guy's case. Don't ask don't tell, right?
I am not saying that they are all criminals, and I am not saying that legal Americans do not commit crimes. What I am saying is that illegals who originate from a bordering country have a unique situation that absolutely does give them leverage over American law and the means to effectively evade justice for their crimes.
Cat, try researching how many unsolved murder, sexual assault, vehicular homicide, battery etc. cases there are where an illegal is the suspect. America is good enough to exploit when you don't have the means or will to protest your own failed system, but when you're facing murder or rape charges here, all of a sudden, Mexico is a great place to be!
When people are allowed to operate under false names, false social security numbers, with no criminal records on file in American databases, no address histories or known origins, it is dangerous!

Another point to consider researching is where bank lenders, who for fear of accusations of discrimination, and who are also under "don't ask, don't tell" protocol, are more likely to lend money to people with completely false identities.

Hope those are some usable ideas for your paper, Cat.

Spiderman
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 01:27 PM
They come here quietly and next thing you know they are working alongside us, taking our ice rinks, and passing on their foreign customs like poutine and hockey and saying "eh"....
Mmmm... poutine :yumyum:


Speaking as an immigrant from the great white north, I disagree with instant citizenship or citizenship by occupation. If they came here illegally they need to go through all the hoops to become legal first before getting citizenship.
.... :imwithstupid:

For those of us that WANT to be here and jump through all the hoops that immigration has in place for us to be LEGAL residents, it's a smack in the face to hear about amnesty for illegals.


the key step here is to make immigration more streamlined because those who do want to be citizens have to wait years and jump through so many hoops it is ridiculous. if we streamline it and make it more efficient then those who want to become american and a productive part of OUR SOCIETY will be able to do so.
:applause:

Many other good points as well. 8)

CYCLE_MONKEY
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 04:08 PM
Americans aren't willing to take certain jobs due to the pay. If these crap jobs couldn't find people to work for $10 a day, they would be forced to pay more and at some point, the pay would be high enough that Americans WOULD be willing to do the job.

My grandparents worked in far worse conditions for far less money, so I'd have to disagree with this based on fact. I'd rather pay more for my lettuce that foot the financial burden ALL us legal taxpayers pay for the negative impact these people have on our country.

Illegal COLONISTS, I like that, but here's one better:
Hostile Invading Army. Doesn't a hostile occupying force generally want to change the language to suit them and fly their flag instead of the conquored countries? Guess what.....please dial 1 for englase and check for mexican flags fyling on US soil.....

Mental
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 04:39 PM
As already stated, legal immigration is great! It's how my grandparents established themselves here and assimilated American society to positively contribute to the American system.

Your grandparents, my grandparemts, and Cycle Monkey's Grandparents got into this country a lot easier than a Mexican who wants to be here.

All previous generations had to do was get on a boat and float across the Atlantic. Show up at Ellis and get your new name. A Mexican has to fork out over $3,000, fill out applications and get permission before they leave Mexico. If they are leaving there to find work, where the hell are they gonna get that money? If we even had a system that allowed them to work off that money while they are here it would be better than whats in place.

...and don't give me that assimilation bullshit either. The majority of immagrants before and after WWI and WWII came here speaking no English, and brought their own customs with them, hell our country is BUILT on those European traditions. Look at a map of Minnesota and Wisconscin and tell that assimilation crap again.

Don't give me the crime bullshit. The Mafia is a uniqeuly American creation? My ass.

...and yes, while your parents worked far harder and shittier than these folks did, the reality of the sitation is this generation won't do it. They won't. Thats why you see white guys with a "Will Work for Food" sign in front of a McDonals that says "Now Hiring." This entire generation has developed a sense of entitlement and you all know it.

Big-J
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 04:51 PM
:applause:


Your grandparents, my grandparemts, and Cycle Monkey's Grandparents got into this country a lot easier than a Mexican who wants to be here.

All previous generations had to do was get on a boat and float across the Atlantic. Show up at Ellis and get your new name. A Mexican has to fork out over $3,000, fill out applications and get permission before they leave Mexico. If they are leaving there to find work, where the hell are they gonna get that money? If we even had a system that allowed them to work off that money while they are here it would be better than whats in place.

...and don't give me that assimilation bullshit either. The majority of immagrants before and after WWI and WWII came here speaking no English, and brought their own customs with them, hell our country is BUILT on those European traditions. Look at a map of Minnesota and Wisconscin and tell that assimilation crap again.

Don't give me the crime bullshit. The Mafia is a uniqeuly American creation? My ass.

...and yes, while your parents worked far harder and shittier than these folks did, the reality of the sitation is this generation won't do it. They won't. Thats why you see white guys with a "Will Work for Food" sign in front of a McDonals that says "Now Hiring." This entire generation has developed a sense of entitlement and you all know it.

Frosty
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 05:27 PM
I don't often listen to him but I thought this was interesting. At least something to think about if this was the other way around.

"The Limbaugh Laws"

“All right, immigration proposals under discussion. Let me add mine to the mix. I want to call this proposal the Limbaugh Laws. …First, if you immigrate to the United States of America, you must speak the native language. You have to be a professional or an investor. [America is] not going to take unskilled workers…There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no special ballots for elections, no government business will be conducted in your native language. Foreigners will not have the right to vote…nor will they ever be allowed to hold political office. According to the Limbaugh Laws, if you're in our country, you cannot be a burden to taxpayers. You are not entitled, ever, to welfare, to food stamps, or other government goodies. You can come if you invest here, but it must be an amount equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage. If you don't know have that amount of money, you can't come and invest. You have to stay home. If you do come and you want to buy land, okay, but we're going to restrict your options. You will not be allowed to buy waterfront property in the United States. That will be reserved for citizens naturally born in this country.”
“In fact, as a foreigner, you must relinquish individual rights to property… Another thing. You don't have the right to protest when you come here. You're allowed no demonstrations, you cannot wave a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies, or you get sent home. You're a foreigner. You shut your mouth or you get out, and if you come here illegally, you go straight to jail and we're going to hunt you down 'til we find you.”
“I can imagine many of you think that the Limbaugh Laws are pretty harsh. I imagine today some of you probably are going, "Yeah! Yeah!" Well, let me tell you this, folks. Every one of the laws I just mentioned are actual laws of Mexico, today. I just read you Mexican immigration law. That's how the Mexican government handles immigrants to their country.”

CYCLE_MONKEY
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 05:43 PM
Your grandparents, my grandparemts, and Cycle Monkey's Grandparents got into this country a lot easier than a Mexican who wants to be here.
First off, it was NOT easy, or cheap. Secondly, all they have to do is jump the border, splurt out an anchor baby, and it's a done deal. Obviously you know nothing about what it was like for them. And regardless, they came here LEGALLY, following all the rules and laws in place at the time, which is all you can ask any immigrant.

All previous generations had to do was get on a boat and float across the Atlantic. Show up at Ellis and get your new name. A Mexican has to fork out over $3,000, fill out applications and get permission before they leave Mexico. If they are leaving there to find work, where the hell are they gonna get that money? If we even had a system that allowed them to work off that money while they are here it would be better than whats in place.
Sounds like that's mexico's problem. And, for reference, they don't even have to get on a boat here. Oh, and do you know how hard it is to legally emmigrate there? Especially if you're from South America?

...and don't give me that assimilation bullshit either. The majority of immagrants before and after WWI and WWII came here speaking no English, and brought their own customs with them, hell our country is BUILT on those European traditions. Look at a map of Minnesota and Wisconscin and tell that assimilation crap again.
Not bullshit, FACT. At no time in this country's history have so many things been printed in a SINGLE minorities language so they can exist here without having to learn English. I don't ever remember being able to press 1 for Italian, or 2 for Swedish, or 3 for Croatian etc. It's RACIST to cater to ONE specific group at the taxpayer's expense. They may have CAME here speaking no English, but they came here wanting to assimilate and BE Americans, not try to invade and turn this into "new" mexico. the learned the language. The people of their generations had respect for America, their new home, and would neveer dream of putting the country they came from first. To fly that countries flag instead of our own. Remember the demonstrations recently where they were "demanding" amnesty.....all the while flying their flag? Obviously, you are not old enough to remember these things, but I am.

Don't give me the crime bullshit. The Mafia is a uniqeuly American creation? My ass.
The amount of crime that the mafia commits pales in comparison to any of the "gangsta" things that go down on a daily basis in LA, or Bakersfield, or any other place with a major illegal population. Again, maybe you're simply too young to have seen the changes that have occurred over the last 20 years or so. Shall I post demographic statistics on the prison population over the years?

...and yes, while your parents worked far harder and shittier than these folks did, the reality of the sitation is this generation won't do it. They won't. Thats why you see white guys with a "Will Work for Food" sign in front of a McDonals that says "Now Hiring." This entire generation has developed a sense of entitlement and you all know it.
Wow, only white guys do that? Man, we oughta stop them from emmigrating. Oops, too late...

I'm Da Munkey, and I approve this message....

CYCLE_MONKEY
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 05:45 PM
I don't often listen to him but I thought this was interesting. At least something to think about if this was the other way around.

"The Limbaugh Laws"

“All right, immigration proposals under discussion. Let me add mine to the mix. I want to call this proposal the Limbaugh Laws. …First, if you immigrate to the United States of America, you must speak the native language. You have to be a professional or an investor. [America is] not going to take unskilled workers…There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no special ballots for elections, no government business will be conducted in your native language. Foreigners will not have the right to vote…nor will they ever be allowed to hold political office. According to the Limbaugh Laws, if you're in our country, you cannot be a burden to taxpayers. You are not entitled, ever, to welfare, to food stamps, or other government goodies. You can come if you invest here, but it must be an amount equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage. If you don't know have that amount of money, you can't come and invest. You have to stay home. If you do come and you want to buy land, okay, but we're going to restrict your options. You will not be allowed to buy waterfront property in the United States. That will be reserved for citizens naturally born in this country.”
“In fact, as a foreigner, you must relinquish individual rights to property… Another thing. You don't have the right to protest when you come here. You're allowed no demonstrations, you cannot wave a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies, or you get sent home. You're a foreigner. You shut your mouth or you get out, and if you come here illegally, you go straight to jail and we're going to hunt you down 'til we find you.”
“I can imagine many of you think that the Limbaugh Laws are pretty harsh. I imagine today some of you probably are going, "Yeah! Yeah!" Well, let me tell you this, folks. Every one of the laws I just mentioned are actual laws of Mexico, today. I just read you Mexican immigration law. That's how the Mexican government handles immigrants to their country.”

I guess they believe in "Exports" and not "Imports".....:)

Cat118!
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 06:22 PM
thanks guys
I also nee real solutions
Now some people assume that this is focused on mexicans....its focused on ALL ILLIGALS!!
My mother is an immigrant and became a citizen from Korea....

with that being said..... Solutions

Example: Like health care ....ER is what they are using for regular dr's and getting it for free, which makes it more expensive for citizens/tax payers

I say treat them...take pictures ,fingure prints and data base them ( like the police do) and then deport them back.

2nd time.... you tell me.. and strike 3???

What have other countries done that work?

Raptor
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 06:25 PM
Your grandparents, my grandparemts, and Cycle Monkey's Grandparents got into this country a lot easier than a Mexican who wants to be here.

All previous generations had to do was get on a boat and float across the Atlantic. Show up at Ellis and get your new name. A Mexican has to fork out over $3,000, fill out applications and get permission before they leave Mexico. If they are leaving there to find work, where the hell are they gonna get that money? If we even had a system that allowed them to work off that money while they are here it would be better than whats in place.

First, calm down. Second, there are people in a long lost of countries who have it really bad. Should we start sending the boats out for them now too? Third, none of this defeats the fact that they are breaking the law by coming here, despite the lack of an easy transition.
All previous generations had to do was get on a boat and float across the Atlantic? Are you serious? What generations of what racial groups? It was free? Food too? How long did this all-inclusive, free trip across the Atlantic take? I'm not usually the type to interject emotically charged rhetoric but since you paid me such high respect, that entire assertion is the real bullshit here, my friend.
Honestly, you really have no idea how difficult it was for my grandparents to get here. To claim from the hip that it was easier is incredibly presumptuous and in fact, I'd challenge the argument. Many of our grandparents risked death to get here, including mine. Many of them landed here only to give their lives on the battlefield. The adversity that early 1900's immigrants faced was incredibly far beyond what even illegals face today, and yes my friend, that is a fact.
In retrospect, I'd go so far as to say that illegals today have it pretty easy compared to earlier generation immigrants who faced parallel challenges in getting here and often, worse adversity once they were here.
So yeah, I simply do not buy the argument that immigrants have a harder time getting themselves here now than our grandparents did back when.
Some type of credible, unbiased source to back that claim would be greatly helpful but I doubt it could be found.


...and don't give me that assimilation bullshit either. The majority of immagrants before and after WWI and WWII came here speaking no English, and brought their own customs with them, hell our country is BUILT on those European traditions. Look at a map of Minnesota and Wisconscin and tell that assimilation crap again.

Ummm...the assimilation vs. colonist point is based on definition. Regardless, assimilation only means that one might become productive into the host land's system, not that one must give up their ethnic tradition. I don't care where you come from or how closely you wish to remain with your ethnic background, as long as you are productive, or assimilated, to the host land. Illegals are not so, unless again, you can provide a credible source proving otherwise.
As far as looking at a map of other states, what type of map will tell me what ethnic, racial, religious, political etc., groups are in good productive standing with their legal and social structure and which groups are not? I don't need a map to tell me that allowing a large and rapidly growing group of people who break the law just to be here leads to perpetual disregard for the law by default. I don't think that a map of Wisconsin is going to dissuade my opinion that allowing this is dangerous.


Don't give me the crime bullshit. The Mafia is a uniqeuly American creation? My ass.

I don't even understand the point you are making with this comment. It doesn't address anything I stated, whatsoever.


...and yes, while your parents worked far harder and shittier than these folks did, the reality of the sitation is this generation won't do it. They won't. Thats why you see white guys with a "Will Work for Food" sign in front of a McDonals that says "Now Hiring." This entire generation has developed a sense of entitlement and you all know it.

I'm sorry but the panhandler on the streetcorner falls far short of supporting that argument. Some people will do what they have to do, others will not. It's not a race specific characteristic. To actually claim that illegals will absolutely do what Americans absolutely will not, is hyperbole.

All that aside, Mental, where is your argument addressing the decay of American law that is subsequent to this issue? If you expect me to align with the idea that their plight takes precedence over the American criminal justice system, you're definitely wasting your time. Does this mean I do not empathize with their situation? Nope. Does it mean that I don't think they're great people? Nope. Does it mean that I think that everyone, especially immigrants, should respect the law? Absolutely, and nothing more. I'll say it one more time, overriding the law for such a quickly growing demographic is dangerous, sends the wrong message from the jump, and does not earn respect for this nation as a host.

jimwallace
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 06:46 PM
heres an idea for you on that subject cat. 1. if the medical problem is not a serious issue then dont treat them. Growing up i had to duct tape up a lot of gashes and wounds cause i didnt want my mom to spend the money to take me in for stitches cause we couldnt afford it. 2. if they do need treated mark them down as you say and contact ICE.


the final step could actually be used with criminal acts too. If they show up on the boards a few times and are still Illegal perhaps there could be some sort of bylaw that allows them to become citizens for the purposes of prosecution? I am sure there are a lot of problems with this idea but hell i guess it is an idea for you to explore.

Cat118!
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 07:39 PM
heres an idea for you on that subject cat. 1. if the medical problem is not a serious issue then dont treat them. Growing up i had to duct tape up a lot of gashes and wounds cause i didnt want my mom to spend the money to take me in for stitches cause we couldnt afford it. 2. if they do need treated mark them down as you say and contact ICE.


the final step could actually be used with criminal acts too. If they show up on the boards a few times and are still Illegal perhaps there could be some sort of bylaw that allows them to become citizens for the purposes of prosecution? I am sure there are a lot of problems with this idea but hell i guess it is an idea for you to explore.


well to my kowledge the hospitals have to treat everyone. And that was just an example to get ideas flowing.

rewarding crimnals with citizenship I dunno if I like that.... BUT it has an angle that could have some potential

jimwallace
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 07:59 PM
yes hospitals do have to treat everyone, thats what i was getting at, maybe they should only have to treat someone who has a problem that is dangerous to the persons actual well being. I also hate rewarding someone for criminal activities but right now that is what we are doing by not being able to prosecute them. so perhaps if they are in this country illegally and commit a FELONY then give them an automatic citizenship and PROSECUTE. just an idea for you.

Raptor
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 08:18 PM
Hey Cat,
It wouldn't work for all countries where illegals come from but at least pertaining to the countries where it is most problematic. Instead of focusing mostly on fixing the problem here, maybe some of the focus should be given to strongly persuading the governments of origin to assist us in the matter.
Particularly those from which the greatest economic burden derives. Perhaps if our government were a bit more zealous in addressing the reasons that illegals are coming here with their governments. It could almost be considered economic infiltration against the US to some degree when another country's political and resulting social dysfunction begins to cost the US serious money.

Cat118!
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 08:47 PM
Hey Cat,
It wouldn't work for all countries where illegals come from but at least pertaining to the countries where it is most problematic. Instead of focusing mostly on fixing the problem here, maybe some of the focus should be given to strongly persuading the governments of origin to assist us in the matter.
Particularly those from which the greatest economic burden derives. Perhaps if our government were a bit more zealous in addressing the reasons that illegals are coming here with their governments. It could almost be considered economic infiltration against the US to some degree when another country's political and resulting social dysfunction begins to cost the US serious money.
well My paper has to have a solution in it....and persuade the reader to see my side. Also some kind of proof on how some of the ideas have work.... like what has other countries done to have their immigration not a huge economy hit.
Like I hear that you CANNOT move to canada unless you have sponsership from a job... grant from a school or 10,000.00 in your bank. If you dont fall into those you are not employable and no one will give you a job, rent to you, sell you a house..... But I do have to have a soild solution in the paper

Mental
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 09:25 PM
Admititly my last response was a bit terse but I stand by my aurguments.

From from 1920 or so up until 1964, there were no issues or cost to immagrat to America. As long as you weren;t a communist, you were allowed in. In fact the mortality rate taken from the ships manifest shows the mortality rate at slightly above 1%. Granted, 4 times higher than if they stayed, but not nearly the horrible story you guys are painting. A literacy test wasn't even adopted in 1917, and even then volume of immgrants was almost unchanged. Quota Act of 1921 was the first attempt to limit immigration, and that was based on the percentage of the countries current population in the US. That law wasn't fully implemented until 1929 and ultimatley niehter limted immgration from the Western Hemisphere. The McCarran-Walter Act basically allowed European immgrants to come here for free and be granted asylum. So yes they followed the law. My piont is the laws we have are too buerocratic and to compare the crisis today with the European immgration of the previous century is apples and oranges. In fact prior to 1920, there were no restrictions on Europen immgration, and in fact a great many of them also retired back to their countiries after WWI becuase they ,ade thei money here and the cost of living was cheaper there.

So yes, all they had to do was get on a boat. It wasn't an easy voyage, and not always a safe one. But I stand by that statment.

I'm not claiming Americans will absolutely not do what illeagals absolutely will. In fact that phrase was never used. I am claiming that immgrants (all of them, Hati, Africans, Mexico, Cuba etc) will work in field the current generation will not do. They do labor. It's not an absolute and to imply that I was making one is less than I would expect from what have been some pretty solid pionts from you. Its not a hyperbole. "Lazy Americans" is punchline throughout the world. Furthermore there is a shortage of craftsmen trades in this country becuase we as a society have until recently looked down on anyone who mades a living with their hands. Despite the growing economic crisis in this country, there is still a labor shortage, and has been one for quite some time.

My aurgument is not the decay of American law, but the over-burdening of it. If you want these illeagals to follow the law, stop making it so expensive and complicated. The $3,000+ doesn't go to the Mexican goverment, it goes to ours, and to lawyers. Thats how much it costs.

As for Cycle, I am older than you. I remember lots of things. Post the demographics in prisons and I will reply with a demographic of the population and draw a line that shows how they have grown in accordance with a growing Hispanic community.

At the time of the massive Europena influx into this country we didn't offer the services we do now (which for the record I do have a problem with illegals taking advantage of) The adjustment to a spanish option is simply an organization adjusting to their user base. Yes, they should assimilate, and many of them do purely out of survival needs. But those don't make the news. Do not forget that by US law, any Cuban who gets one foot on dry soil in the US is automatically granted asylum, so Mexicans are not the only immgrants who speak Spanish. In fact, Spanish is the 2nd most spoken laugage in the world. Why certianly Mexicans are driving a lot of this, it is innaccurate to blame that entirley on them.

Hostile Invading Army? Really. Now they are as bad as the Russians that invaded Georgia? They are uniformed armed soldiers operating under orders and paid by their goverment to take territority?

My stance is still the same. The laws are inaccurate and need to be changed. Doing this will make it easier for immgrants to come here. This will reduce the illegals crossing the boarder, and allow us to secure it agianst the far more dangerous non-Mexicans that are crossing the boarder. Allowing the workers (not everyone, just the ones that are working) a legal and viable avenue to pursue citezenship will expose the true dangerous criminals hiding in pockets of illegal laborers. Finally by allowing the folks who are working to pursue legal citzenship, we will increase tax revenue and pay for the overburdened services being offered to them.

Mental
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 09:27 PM
...like what has other countries done to have their immigration not a huge economy hit...

Look up what Germany did in the late 80's early 90's. They had one of the most liberal asylum polices in the world and as a result, a lot of former Yugoslavians found their way there. Ultimatley they had to adjust it, but they found homes, citzenship and jobs for them.

The Black Knight
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 09:46 PM
Ok ok not to make this a war thread.
But I am writing a paper on illegal immigrations and would just like to hear ideas of a solution....or if you think there is not a prob.....or what needs to change............so on...thoughts please

ok carry on

Well you want to hear ideas of a solution and so forth. Here's my take:

And contrary to some of the bleeding hearts here. I'm all for building a wall, mainly as a deterrent. It should be heavily manned and have people on it 24/7.

I'm all for immigration and people coming here to make a better life. But not at the expense of American citizens. If you want to come here and work? Great get a work visa and come in legally. Don't steal social security #'s from hard working American citizens in order to forge your own false identity.

When American citizens lose their SSN's it causes much heartache and monetary pain. The ramifications and the hoops Americans have to go through to clear these matters up is BS. It shouldn't be happening in the first place.

Here's how I would eliminate alot of the problem:

1. Refuse amnesty for all illegal immigrants. American citizenship is not some cheap doorprize to be given to the anyone who walks in. You've got to earn. I'm sorry but people who are born here do have it better and if you want to come and participate in this country. Then get in line and do it the right way. When you earn it, then it will mean so much more to you.

2. Immediate deportation of all incarcerated illegal immigrants. I don't care where they do, but they will be put on buses and shipped back to Mexico. Let Mexico deal with them. Give Mexico an ultimatum, that if they return, we will execute them(all violent felons) and bill them(Mexico) for our trouble.

3. Institute a program of military service in lieu of citizenship. 4 year active service and you've come one step closer to citizenship(if not the full thing already). When they learn what our military goes through to keep our country the greatest it is, maybe it will teach them a bit of respect for the red,white and blue.

4. Deportation of all families with native born children. Just because you manage to impregnate your wife and bring her over her to fire one off on American soil, doesn't give you the right to be able to stay with your now native born child. You and your child go back home and that's that. It's time we stop being so soft and worry about separating famlies. I've got the solution and it doesn't separate families. In fact it keeps them together. An illegal family that stays together, gets deported together.

5. Require a 3 year probation that they must follow. Meanining no felonies or misdemeanors racked up. Proof of stable residence and stable job. If you're going to come here, then you're going to live here and work here. Pay your taxes and not ship American money back to Mexico.

5(a). After the 3 year probation is up, then you will be extended the fullest amount of the Bill of Rights and Constitution. Until then, proof and displayable actions of your quest for citizenship must be shown.

6. I'm sorry but this is America, and English is our ONLY language. Our public schools will not be forced to slow their progress and hire specialized teachers in order to deal with you and your children. As a prerequisite to becoming a citizen, one of your utmost goals should be, becoming fluent in English. It's America, not Mexico. No one is saying you can't speak your native tongue. You're just not going to do it in school or at governmental places of work. Get with the program or get tossed.

7. Leave your BS crime filled life back in your country of orgin(assuming you are a criminal, if not then this statement doesn't apply to you). America is about opportunity and growth. Making your wildest dreams and aspirations come true. Don't bring your thug life and crime with you. Check it at the gate, because the minute you screw up, you're back home. Break the law and expect to get prosecuted.

8. Respect this country and it's people. America is a land of great compassion and wonderous acts. So don't treat it's Constitution, it's forefathers, its' flag, it's laws and most importantly it's people like the dirt on your shoes.

Now if people can abide by that, well then we'll just get along great. All in all, I think I'm being more than fair. :)

mtnairlover
Tue Oct 28th, 2008, 10:16 PM
Bleeding hearts...what?

Anyhoo...so not like I actually like my ex in-laws, but they are Mexican and came to this country illegally, many, many years ago. They worked on farms in Nebraska and spent quite some time going back and forth to Mexico. My ex would tell a story of when la migra had come to the farm they were working at and he and his family hid in a chicken coop. That was the first and only time they were actually deported. They finally were able to stay in the states because I think they were sponsored by one of the really rich farmers out in Burlington. My ex didn't start school until he was 8 and he was placed in the first grade then. All 6 of the kids went through school and finished high school with a diploma. All 6 went on to some sort of post-secondary school. All of the family, at one point or another in the past 30 years, became Naturalized. Now, the family adds to the economy out in Burlington by owning and renting real estate to other migrant workers. They are all productive citizens...well...cept the ex, who has a huge self-esteem problem and is an alcoholic, but that's another story.

Anyway, my point is that what was mentioned before about creating a system where those who come here to work should have papers that say they are here to work and if they wish to become citizens, they would get that choice, sounds good, but if someone who has no intent of working yet still wants to come to this country will find a way to get here...illegally. It's still gonna happen, just like bad guys will still get guns. But, that kind of solution might actually work. Of course, a whole new department would have to be created and maybe even coordination between both our government and the Mexican government to ensure the proper steps are taken by everyone. Maybe a kind of bureau? I dunno, but it's an idea...and better than that "wall" that seems to continue to be built.

Mental
Wed Oct 29th, 2008, 09:04 AM
The next morning I re-read all the stuff posted here and I do want to divert just a bit.

I really have enjoyed this discussion. One of my post was again, not the same level that I have been engaged here. While we haven't offered Cat the exact response she was asking for, I feel this was a pretty lively debate and managed to stay pretty civil, and despite my departure, pretty light as well, unlike some of the other polairizing discussions we have seen here. I do believe we are probably closer in opinion than this two dimesional medium will allow us to see.

So really, thanks.

Captain Obvious
Wed Oct 29th, 2008, 10:39 AM
My grandparents worked in far worse conditions for far less money, so I'd have to disagree with this based on fact.
What fact are you referring to? That your grandfolks were paid less in worse conditions for hard work? I think it has been addressed, but that was a different time and people like our grandparents had a different view on work. We were dirt farmers until my father's generation left the farm in my family. Different time, different economy now.
It is widely accepted that the newer generations of Americans are softer than the older and manual labor is no longer seen as noble but as employment that people do because they are incapable of "harder" work. Different thread, but when people say this about cops it really pisses me off.


I'd rather pay more for my lettuce that foot the financial burden ALL us legal taxpayers pay for the negative impact these people have on our country.

I agree, I would be willing to pay more up front as well. If that is because the farmer is paying more for a legally employed worker. And if the illegal workers were not able to be employed, we would have to pay reasonable wages for legal immigrants and Americans to do the work.

Captain Obvious
Wed Oct 29th, 2008, 10:48 AM
I also nee real solutions
Now some people assume that this is focused on mexicans....its focused on ALL ILLIGALS!!
My mother is an immigrant and became a citizen from Korea....


You are correct, most of us did jump on the Mexican issue. But that is due to illegals from Mexico being more numerous and in more geographical locations.

Illegal Asian immigrants are much more regional of an issue. Generally though, I would wager that due to the higher of difficulty to get here, more are subjected to slave trade and forced labor vs being able to simply walk across the border and roam freely.

It is like all crime, that which is more in your face gets the attention and bothers the public more. Hence the focus on Mexican immigration. And that is why no one complains about illegal Canadians. Firstly, they are so pasty white and cute, and secondly well they are harmless. You tell me, who on the list below scares you? Corey Haim? Perhaps if I had prescription pills in my pocket.
Pam Anderson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamela_Anderson) Dan Aykroyd (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000101/)
Samantha Bee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Bee)
Neve Campbell (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000117/)
John Candy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Candy)
Jim Carrey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Carrey)
Hume Cronyn (http://www.northernstars.ca/actorsabc/cronyn.html)
Henry Czerny (http://www.northernstars.ca/actorsabc/czerny.html)
Elisha Cuthbert (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisha_Cuthbert)
Colleen Dewhurst (http://www.northernstars.ca/actorsdef/dewhurst.html)
Michael J. Fox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_J._Fox)
Lorne Greene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorne_Greene) Corey Haim (http://www.northernstars.ca/actorsghi/haim.html)
Jill Hennessy (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005007/)
Robert Ito (http://www.northernstars.ca/actorsghi/itobio.html)
Norman Jewison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Jewison)
Margot Kidder (http://www.northernstars.ca/actorsjkl/kidder.html)
Eugene Levy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Levy)
Rich Little (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Little)
Howie Mandel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howie_Mandel)
Andrea Martin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Martin)
Raymond Massey (http://www.northernstars.ca/actorsmno/masseybio.html)
Lorne Michaels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorne_Michaels)
Rick Moranis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Moranis) Mike Myers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Myers_%28actor%29)
Leslie Nielsen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Nielsen)
Sandra Oh (http://www.northernstars.ca/actorsmno/oh_sandrabio.html)
Matthew Perry (http://www.northernstars.ca/actorspqr/perry_matthew.html)
Walter Pidgeon (http://www.northernstars.ca/actorspqr/pidgeonbio.html)
Keanu Reeves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keanu_Reeves)
Saul Rubinek (http://www.northernstars.ca/actorspqr/rubinek.html)
Paul Shaffer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Shaffer)
William Shatner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shatner)
Martin Short (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Short)
Donald Sutherland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Sutherland) Kiefer Sutherland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiefer_Sutherland)
Dave Thomas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Thomas_%28actor%29)
Alex Trebek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Trebek)
Nia Vardalos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nia_Vardalos)

Mental
Wed Oct 29th, 2008, 11:36 AM
Back before Micheal Moore went insane, he had a great TV show called TV Nation. They did an entire skit where a Canadian walked across the boardder wearing a sandwhich board saying "I am coming for your jobs." The guard didn't flinch.

BOT. A lot of other countries have special exceptions to immagration. Chinese illeagals are granted Asylum if they can prove they are under duress should they be returned.

For Koreans, there have been three major waves. The first came in the early 1900's and most of them ended up in Hawaii working argricultural jobs. They were granted Asylum under the current economic and politcal situation n Korea. The 2nd started in the 50's becuase of the war. After that until 1965 it was limited to 100 Koreans per year. Then the last one started in 1969 until the late 80's Korens immgration has now kinda ceased to be an issue becuase S Korea has prospered very well.

Hatians have their own agency, The Office of Diasporic Affairs which now falls under the President.

As mentioned, Cubans are automatically given refugee status along with other privileges. Some of these special privileges were introduced in 1966 and included gaining permanent residency if the Cuban had been in the U.S. for at least a year, even if they simply stayed past their Visa requirements.

A quick delve into the Irish immgration of the potatoe famine will reveal a lot of the same aurguments being used against the current Hispanic influx. Irish were lumped together as criminals and lazy. They were employed at 1/2 pay of other peaple and when they protested, the militia was brought in to force compliance.

Russian have been coming here steady for 300 years. But in the 70's as a part of our trade agreement with Russia, there was a provision made for eased immgration for improvished or persecuted groups. In 1976 the Hebrew Immagrant Aide Soicety was etsablish in Vienna and allowed Soviet jews the option of Isreal or America.

In short many ethnic groups after the turn of the century and certianly during times of war have has specific organizations and laws made in their favor. So who gets in and who can't is directly refelctive of who we don;t like poltically and was ethnic group has enough of a voice.

CYCLE_MONKEY
Wed Oct 29th, 2008, 11:52 AM
Back before Micheal Moore went insane, he had a great TV show called TV Nation. They did an entire skit where a Canadian walked across the boardder wearing a sandwhich board saying "I am coming for your jobs." The guard didn't flinch.

BOT. A lot of other countries have special exceptions to immagration. Chinese illeagals are granted Asylum if they can prove they are under duress should they be returned.

For Koreans, there have been three major waves. The first came in the early 1900's and most of them ended up in Hawaii working argricultural jobs. They were granted Asylum under the current economic and politcal situation n Korea. The 2nd started in the 50's becuase of the war. After that until 1965 it was limited to 100 Koreans per year. Then the last one started in 1969 until the late 80's Korens immgration has now kinda ceased to be an issue becuase S Korea has prospered very well.

Hatians have their own agency, The Office of Diasporic Affairs which now falls under the President.

As mentioned, Cubans are automatically given refugee status along with other privileges. Some of these special privileges were introduced in 1966 and included gaining permanent residency if the Cuban had been in the U.S. for at least a year, even if they simply stayed past their Visa requirements.

A quick delve into the Irish immgration of the potatoe famine will reveal a lot of the same aurguments being used against the current Hispanic influx. Irish were lumped together as criminals and lazy. They were employed at 1/2 pay of other peaple and when they protested, the militia was brought in to force compliance.

Russian have been coming here steady for 300 years. But in the 70's as a part of our trade agreement with Russia, there was a provision made for eased immgration for improvished or persecuted groups. In 1976 the Hebrew Immagrant Aide Soicety was etsablish in Vienna and allowed Soviet jews the option of Isreal or America.

In short many ethnic groups after the turn of the century and certianly during times of war have has specific organizations and laws made in their favor. So who gets in and who can't is directly refelctive of who we don;t like poltically and was ethnic group has enough of a voice.
I'm against the Cuban thing, or any premise where "if you can get here, you're in". So, since there is no religious or governmental persecution by the mexican gov't besides simple overwhelming corruption, why should they be special? further, what I said about the "press 1 for English" stands, I know of no other time where we catered to one specific group like this at taxpayer expense.

And for the record, from your pic, you look younger than I. I'm 44, and you are?

Mental
Wed Oct 29th, 2008, 07:53 PM
...And for the record, from your pic, you look younger than I. I'm 44, and you are?
Damm. I usually win that contest on the interwebz. I'm 37

well 37 and 1/2

CYCLE_MONKEY
Thu Oct 30th, 2008, 08:02 AM
Damm. I usually win that contest on the interwebz. I'm 37

well 37 and 1/2
You don't even qualify for FOG status.....young punk!:)

BeoBe
Thu Oct 30th, 2008, 12:25 PM
i agree with george carlins idea to handle illegals

while i try and find it, heres a funny

TY Kurel
On Becoming Illegal.
FORMS ARE GOING FAST- SIGN UP TODAY!
Becoming Illegal (Actual letter from an Iowa resident and sent to his senator)
The Honorable Tom Harkin
731 Hart Senate Office Building
Phone (202) 224 3254
Washington DC , 20510
Dear Senator Harkin,
As a native Iowan and excellent customer of the Internal Revenue Service, I am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the Department of Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process for becoming an illegal alien and they referred me to you.
My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen to illegal alien stems from the bill which was recently passed by the Senate and for which you voted. If my understanding of this bill's provisions is accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the United States for five years, all I need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine and income taxes for three of the last five years. I know a good deal when I see one and I am anxious to get the process started before everyone figures it out.
Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay taxes every year so I'm excited about the prospect of avoiding two years of taxes in return for paying a $2,000 fine. Is there any way that I can apply to be illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result for me and my family because we paid heavy taxes in 2004 and 2005.
Additionally, as an illegal alien I could begin using the local emergency room as my primary health care provider. Once I have stopped paying premiums for medical insurance, my accountant figures I could save almost $10,000 a year.
Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter would receive preferential treatment relative to her law school applications, as well as 'in-state' tuition rates for many colleges throughout the United States for my son.
Lastly, I understand that illegal status would relieve me of the burden of renewing my driver's license and making those burdensome car insurance premiums. This is very important to me given that I still have college age children driving my car.
If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become illegal (retroactively if possible) and copies of the necessary forms, I would be most appreciative. Thank you for your assistance.
Your Loyal Constituent,
Donald Ruppert
Burlington , IA
Get your Forms (NOW)!! Call your Internal Revenue Service 1-800-289-1040.

Mental
Thu Oct 30th, 2008, 12:28 PM
You don't even qualify for FOG status.....young punk!:)
STFU old man before I go all spider monkey on you.

BeoBe
Thu Oct 30th, 2008, 12:32 PM
lol here it is

Hmmm..George Carlin may be on to something here..

Gas Price Solution by George Carlin:

President Bush wants us to cut the amount of gas w e use. The best way to

stop using so much gas is to deport 11 million illegal immigrants! There would be 11 million less people using

our gas. The price of gas would come down, then bring our troops home from

Iraq to guard the border. When they catch an illegal immigrant crossing the

border, hand him a canteen, rifle and some ammo and ship him to Iraq.

Tell him if he wants to come to America then he must serve a tour in the

military. Give him a soldier’s pay while he’s there and tax him on it.

After his tour, he will be allowed to become a citizen since he defended

this country. He will also be registered to be taxed and be a legal

patriot. This option will probably deter illegal immigration and provide

a solution for the troops in Iraq and the aliens trying to make a better

life for themselves. If they refuse to serve, ship them to Iraq anyway,

without the canteen, rifle or ammo. Problem solved.

AirAssault
Fri Oct 31st, 2008, 03:30 AM
Like most here, legal immigration :)

If you didn't come into this country legally, go back to your own country. Im sorry it sucks but that's your problem, I sure as hell don't need you coming here and f-ing up our country too.... we already have a president that did that. Take steps to change your own country, or apply to enter the US legally and take the steps to stay here legally.

Now that being said, we need to secure our borderes (and not moron bush secure, I mean really secure) I have no problem building a wall with armed men patrolling said wall. Motion sensors, FLIR, and other high tech options should also be used.