What's your take on oil/gas prices?

[McVaaahhh]

Following this phenomenal rise and fall in oil and gas prices, what do you think about it?


I think it's far from over and $150/barrel will happen again next summer.

I think that everyone who bought into that $2.99/gallon deal offered by Chrysler is wishing they had a little Vaseline cause they're getting f'ed.

I think I'm taking all of my money out of the stock market and burying it in a mayonnaise jar in my yard.

This is crazy.



P.S. I'm going to shoot the first person that mentions a president or administration (past or present)

[Snowman]

I saw $2.10 off of Parker yesterday.


What I think we should do is

Dig a really big hole in your backyard.
Drop a 20,000 gallon tank into it
Fill the tank with gasoline.
Install extra fuel tanks into our MFP V8 Interceptors and scavenge the wasteland.

[puckstr]

I saw $2.10 off of Parker yesterday.


What I think we should do is

Dig a rally big hole in your backyard.
Drop a 20,000 gallon tank into it
Fill the tank with gasoline.
Install extra fuel tanks into our MFP V8 Interceptors and scavenge the wasteland.



I wasn't even finished reading this and all I could think of was
Mad Max.

Go Goose Go
http://hellforleathermagazine.com/images/whitehouse-goose.jpg

[BeoBe]

2 things.. 1 right after obama got president all gas prices here went up 10 cents

2. The govt. is shutting down over 1 million oil rigs in the US.. Not due to lack of production but because the govt wants the gas prices to go back up.. how messed up is that??

So enjoy it while it lasts cause its not gonna last long..

[64BonnieLass]

Uh oh. :shocked:

[rforsythe]

More than likely if rigs are shutting down, it's a decision of OPEC, not the government per se.

Donna saw gas below $2.10 a couple days ago, and diesel is finally below $3 by my house.

[Snowman]

2 things.. 1 right after obama got president all gas prices here went up 10 cents

2. The govt. is shutting down over 1 million oil rigs in the US.. Not due to lack of production but because the govt wants the gas prices to go back up.. how messed up is that??

So enjoy it while it lasts cause its not gonna last long..
Hmm interesting, you got an article to back that up?
I know the OPEC dropped production levels to keep the price up there.

And what’s that?
I hear nothing about off shore drilling contracts from the oil companies.
I guess at $70.00 they can’t make enough to cover the costs of drilling.

[McVaaahhh]

:guns: Beobe

[McVaaahhh]

I heard there is a station in Metro Denver at $1.99

[Nick_Ninja]

http://www.gasbuddy.com/

[64BonnieLass]

:guns: Beobe
See.....I knew it! LOL

I think we will see gas prices skyrocket again in the Spring/Summer. I have nothing to back this up, nor do I have any boob pictures. Just my .02.

[Filo]

Macroeconomics - supply and demand. The whole world is experiencing a massive slow down, which implies less consumption, which means lower prices. All you folks who drive the 10-12 MPG cars stopped driving them, lowering demand, lowering price. OPEC and non OPEC producers are certainly going to manipulate supply to increase prices.

As an example of the global slowdown - Volvo in Europe sold 41970 heavy trucks third quarter 1 year ago. This year, same quarter - 115. (http://www.economist.com/finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12523906&CFID=30427692&CFTOKEN=80771718)


It has almost nothing to do with what Bush did, who won the election, or what Obama may do. Remember, petrol is a global commodity in a global marketplace. There are 5.7 billion other people who want fuel too.

Emerging and developed economies are contracting. Until the contraction is over, gas prices are going to continue to have downward pressures. I suspect that prices will hover in the $2.10-$2.50 range over the winter with a spike at Thanksgiving, then tend towards $3.00 in the spring. But what the hell do I know?

[puckstr]

Can't we just get gas from Venezuela?? Screw OPEC
I really do not care about what type of leader Chavez is.

Terri there is always room for boob pics.

[Devaclis]

2 things.. 1 right after obama got president all gas prices here went up 10 cents

2. The govt. is shutting down over 1 million oil rigs in the US.. Not due to lack of production but because the govt wants the gas prices to go back up.. how messed up is that??

So enjoy it while it lasts cause its not gonna last long..


How does that make any sense? really? Why would the government want prices to go up? So people would purchase less gas thus lowering the tax revenue generated from gas purchase? Makes total sense.

[rybo]

There is some function of supply and demand at play. Fall and winter are lower driving times than summer, so prices tend to fall by default this time of year. People conditioned themselves to drive less this summer because of high prices, and have retained those habits and on top of that the economy is down, so people are looking at spending less in general.

There is no way it's over. Oil is a limited commodity (artificially, but still limited) and as such the only direction for prices to go (long term) is up.

At 70 a bbl it isn't very cost effective to look at alternate oil producing technology (ie oil shale), but there are a lot of exploration / drilling projects that started over the summer that will continue, even if capped.

Net result...use less, pay less.

s
p.s. I just paid 2.06 a gallon here in Fort Lupton.

[Filo]

Can't we just get gas from Venezuela?? Screw OPEC


Sorry puckstr - Venezuela is part of OPEC.



Terri there is always room for boob pics.

I agree. I will post pictures of my boobs if you post pictures of yours, Teri.

[Snowman]

Rybo is right.
If you want to keep gas prices low use less of it. A demand less than the supply will mean lower prices. To keep the prices low however we need to have a different way of powering things.

Pickens plan seems very plausible to me, replacing gas powered fleet vehicles with natural gas and replacing the natural gas power plants with wind. Keeping more of the 700 billion a year we send over seas for oil in this county would also have a positive effect on jobs, incomes, taxes and purchasing.

I thinks it’s the one thing conservatives and liberals can buy in on.

[puckstr]

Sorry puckstr - Venezuela is part of OPEC.

Bummer

I agree. I will post pictures of my boobs if you post pictures of yours, Teri.
:shocked:
Agreed





So why can't we get gas from Venezuela.
Bush policy? He is gone Jan 20th.

So what is the reason we do not get gas from Venezula.

[Sortarican]

Enjoy it while it lasts.
As soon as world economies fire up again look forward to $4.00+ a gallon, then $5.00+ for the rest of your lives.

What happens when a 1/2 billion Chinese middle-class consumers all go out and buy cars?

Upside for Colorado short term and the U.S. long term is at $150+ a barrel a lot of alternative energy sources become viable.
The U.S. and Western Europe will probably lead the world in the technological advancement related to energy development.
Of course after 10 years of that we'll farm all the jobs out to the Third World to actually manufacture them
and we'll go back to just keeping the books and creating the advertising.

[Filo]

So why can't we get gas from Venezuela.
Bush policy? He is gone Jan 20th.

So what is the reason we do not get gas from Venezula.

I think we still do get gas from Venezuela. It was politically unpopular when Chavez started bashing the US. That was when 7-11 severed ties with Citgo, which is Venezuelan. I believe that Citgo still sells here though.

[Sortarican]

So what is the reason we do not get gas from Venezula.

We do. At least we did for a long time.

And why don't we get a better deal from Chavez now that Bush is leaving?
As you've pointed out Steve,
his name is Barack Hussein Obama II...not Barack Jesus Obama Dos.

[McVaaahhh]

Anybody think the recent drop in fuel prices will alter people's decisions about their consumption, or do you think the recent "green" changes people have made with $4/gallon gas are here to stay long term?

I'm kinda on the fence.

I think some people will go out and buy SUV's and such, but I think most people believe that the low prices are anything but temporary.

[Snowman]

The longer gas prices stay low the more people will slip back into wasting it. Remember the 70’s and how long it took until SUV’s hit the road.

I think this is a good time to buy that hybrid and buy stocks into alterative energy. As long as gas is low these items will fall in price and as soon as it goes back up you would be ahead of the game.

[Filo]

I think some people will go out and buy SUV's and such, but I think most people believe that the low prices are anything but temporary.

SUV prices are through the floor and for some reason people like them. I think we will see an uptick in SUV sales, but not for a few quarters because people are scared and some are unable to get financing. Of course, any SUV sales would be an uptick from now, so that isn't saying much. However, I think that many people will go back to SUVs because for most people it was a financial decision to drop them, not a "green" decision.

[Shea]

Anybody think the recent drop in fuel prices will alter people's decisions about their consumption, or do you think the recent "green" changes people have made with $4/gallon gas are here to stay long term?

I'm kinda on the fence.

I think some people will go out and buy SUV's and such, but I think most people believe that the low prices are anything but temporary.

Never underestimate the American consumer's ability to think no more then two weeks in advance. "Gas in $2 honey, let's get that Tahoe for you and our one kid!"

Oil is sold on the open market puckstr and is therefore fungible. Doesn't matter where it comes from...

BTW, filled up at the Western on Hwy 24 just east of Woodland Park for $1.97/gal.

[rybo]

Anybody think the recent drop in fuel prices will alter people's decisions about their consumption, or do you think the recent "green" changes people have made with $4/gallon gas are here to stay long term?

I'm kinda on the fence.

I think some people will go out and buy SUV's and such, but I think most people believe that the low prices are anything but temporary.

Well, SUV's and Trucks are CHEAP right now compared to hybrids, so while prices are low I suspect that there are some people shopping that will go for them, but there is a lesson in recent history, and I think this group of SUV buyers will be in the minority.

The auto industry is seeing it's lowest demand in roughly 20 years. This is for a couple of reasons. The major one is that the credit markets aren't up to the task right now. Notice how all the 0% finance offers went away? Sure you can still get HUGE rebates on a new car, but you can't get cheap financing. In the end most new car buyers are looking at a payment amount, not a total price. I think the habit of driving less is here to stay for a little bit. In the last quarter americans drove something like a BILLION less miles than they did in the previous year, same quarter. That's a lot of miles.

I'm not really on the fence. I travel a lot and the cost of gas this summer didn't dissuade that very much. I like to go places and the cost of gas is the cost of going places.

I like the Pickens idea and agree with some of what's been said here. That being said wind can only provide so much capacity, and the places where it's windy don't offer real proximity to load centers. The nation's ability to transmit electricity long distances is poor, and that part of the infrastructure is badly in need of some updating. There is a lot of electricty to be found in increasing the efficiency of our transmission systems. I think you will also see a trend towards natural gas autos. The technology is pretty easy to implement even on current automobiles. Natural gas is widely available in the US and can easily bolster our energy independence. Finally I think you will see a re-emergence of nuclear power. This is the most likely bridge technology to fuel cells and to operate well they need hydrogen. It takes a metric-shit ton of electricity to free hydrogen from water, so we will need an abundance of electricity to make it happen. Nuclear power is one of the most efficient ways of making electricity. It doesn't release Co2 and offers a large degree of energy independence as well because the uranium is highly available in the US.

The answers to the problems are not singular. It's not JUST fuel cells, or wind, or natural gas, but rather a combination of a lot of emerging (and old) technologies to reduce our dependence on a single source such as we've come to enjoy.

I think the next 20 years are going to provide technological advances that I can't even beging to imagine. My grandmother, at the time of her death, had witnessed man's first flight, the emergence of automobiles as a primary form of transportation, the electrification of america, the first space flights and so forth. She lived nearly 100 years. I think the next 20 is going to surpass that level of change. Please keep your arms inside the ride at all times.

[Sortarican]

Never underestimate the American consumer's ability to think no more then two weeks in advance...

True.
When gas went to $3.99 how many people went and traded in their 16mpg SUV's for below book
in order to buy a 23mpg Toyota at a premium price?

If they did the math they would have realized at +7 mpg that -$8,000 deal will only take them like 8 years of driving to break even on.

[dapper]

Rybo is right.
If you want to keep gas prices low use less of it. A demand less than the supply will mean lower prices. To keep the prices low however we need to have a different way of powering things.

Pickens plan seems very plausible to me, replacing gas powered fleet vehicles with natural gas and replacing the natural gas power plants with wind. Keeping more of the 700 billion a year we send over seas for oil in this county would also have a positive effect on jobs, incomes, taxes and purchasing.

I thinks it’s the one thing conservatives and liberals can buy in on.
Partially correct.
OPEC cut half a million barrel production last month when the price was getting near the upper 70's per barrel. (Receiving lower $ per barrel than they want)
Our national economy is doing better than a lot of other economy's.

The currency rate of USD vs GBP is ideal right now at about $1.59/pound.
With the oil demand dropping down, the storage containers full, cutting local production is the only option.

$80-100 per barrel is where the analysts believe the range will likely stabilize for a year or two. The price per gallon was never meant to see $2/gal again...so this is something to celebrate.

11 places in Oklahoma city are under $2/gallon. One was at $1.88:shocked:

[~Barn~]

It's my fault. The commute adjustment I've made is withholding 100's of dollars in gasoline revenue per month, and the trickle-down affect is basically bringing our economy to a standstill. If it helps at all, I am using these newly recovered monies, to fund:

-Terrorism
-Tittie dancers
-Guns & Ammo (the products, not the magazine)
-A grassroots movement to tax internet usage
-Super hardcore terrorism
-Better Home & Gardens (the magazine, not the cause)
-Rap music
-The Vail corporation
-thepiratebay.org (http://www.thepiratebay.org)
-The YUM brand of fast food restaurants
-The University of Wyoming
-Stunters
-And the makers of Excedrin

[rforsythe]

If they did the math they would have realized at +7 mpg that -$8,000 deal will only take them like 8 years of driving to break even on.

Exactly. It makes a whole lot more sense to just drive it less.

[Sortarican]

......

Vance! Quit using Scotts signon!

J/K Scott, a lot of good points there.
And I agree, not only will new technologies and behavioral patterns change the face of the world,
but it's also our best chance of sabilizing both the US and world economies.

I think the idea of photosynthetic hydrogen production and photovoltaic roof shingles are two great ideas who's technologies should be attainable.

[McVaaahhh]

True.
When gas went to $3.99 how many people went and traded in their 16mpg SUV's for below book
in order to buy a 23mpg Toyota at a premium price?

If they did the math they would have realized at +7 mpg that -$8,000 deal will only take them like 8 years of driving to break even on.

:imwithstupid:

A $10,000 used Tahoe is a much better deal (monthly cost wise) than a $30,000 Prius, even at $4/gallon (unless you're driving like 30k/year). Most people can't do the math.

I drive a Tahoe and this summer I figured things would come back down so I just held on to it, drove it a bit less, and now I'm happy that it only cost $45 to fill it up. :crazy:

I bet all those people that took huge hits on their trucks/suvs are just kicking themselves right now with that $500/mo payment for that Mini Cooper/Civic/Prius/whatever.

[dapper]

Here's a shirt for ya Barn!
http://rlv.zcache.com/nobody_knows_im_a_terrorist_shirt-p235876018150372302qi7t_210.jpg

[Scribbler]

The whole reason gas prices dropped in the US is due to a couple factors...

1st...After recovering from Gustav, US oil production refilled our reservoirs as well as brought our own projected oil production back online.

2nd, The drop in barrel cost was not due to the American economy dropping, but the Worldwide economy dropping.

Now that worldwide economy...for the moment... is rising, the cost per barrel is increasing again. Which in turn is not just a plus for the oil industry but those who are once again investing in it. The cost of investing in oil has dropped so low that not just wall-street can conveniently invest in it, but moms and pops can as well, at a very affordable price.

According to many analysts, the price will rise again; however it's also predicted the $4 per gallon price for gas won't be seen for another decade. Sure it will rise, but not back to what we saw a year ago...for quite some time. And when it does, the opportunity for people with low income to invest is ripe for the pickings.

The fortunate circumstance (if you can look at it that way) is that when US oil production took a hit, the world economy also tanked. Luckily for the US, it worked out in our favor. As an American, if you have any surplus cash laying around, it would not be a bad investment to invest a few of those dollars in Oil.

[dapper]

I bet all those people that took huge hits on their trucks/suvs are just kicking themselves right now with that $500/mo payment for that Mini Cooper/Civic/Prius/whatever.
Damn Instant-Generation Thinking :no:


The fortunate circumstance (if you can look at it that way) is that when US oil production took a hit, the world economy also tanked. Luckily for the US, it worked out in our favor. As an American, if you have any surplus cash laying around, it would not be a bad investment to invest a few of those dollars in Oil.
We have the World Bank...and that puts America in a better position.
[this is what I call on the ledge]Brian wants to sell low and put his depreciating currency in a jar...which will mold...and plant it. :no:
Remember, the number of shares is the same. Dividend are coming. Dollar-cost-average!

Take a look at a calender that shows moons/days.
Look for the full-moon and the no-moon.
The full-moon is creating a high tide.
The no-moon is creating a low tide.
The market is in the low tide right now. The tide will rise again. Just not back at 14k points in 30 days. :)

Prices, however, will remain "highly volatile, especially in the next year or two," the IEA said. "A worsening of the current financial crisis would most likely depress economic activity and, therefore, oil demand, exerting downward pressure on prices."Mutual Funds can spread the load. Oil stocks don't.

[puckstr]

Barn

you had me at "Tittie Dancers":boobies::hump:

[Devaclis]

I use about 1 tank of gas per week on the bike commuting to and from work. I don't really care if gas is $9 a gallon when it comes to my vehicles. What I DO care about is how much it raises the price of consumer goods, services, and production. This will do nothing but move MORE jobs and good production to countries where costs are cheaper than here in the US of A.

[Scribbler]

Dapper,

I guess I should have also included in my previous post... (was in a hurry to post it out while over the shoulder I had work goin on =/ )

While it's a good time to buy because it will probably rise on the short term, Purchasing Futures in Oil is probably not a very good bet at this time. Short term investments in oil is relatively safe if you're paying attention. But yeah, purchasing futures can really hurt you since it's so unstable. Sure Oil can drop another $10 - $20 per barrel in the next year or two, however there will undoubtedly be an upswing which will make it worthwhile if you sell at the right time.

[dapper]

:up:

[pilot]

Buying fuel is like gambling. You have to decide when and where to place your bet. There will always be a better/worse pay-off somewhere else. That's what makes it fun for the little guy. Gamble on gambla's.

[TFOGGuys]

Price war at 20th and Youngfield in Lakewood....$1.85 and $1.84 for regular 3 stations at that corner....

[McVaaahhh]

Price war at 20th and Youngfield in Lakewood....$1.85 and $1.84 for regular 3 stations at that corner....

Nice.

I can't remember the last time I paid under $2/gallon.

[rforsythe]

Price war at 20th and Youngfield in Lakewood....$1.85 and $1.84 for regular 3 stations at that corner....

They including diesel in that price war? :eyebrows:

(I could use a bunch for my new sub...)

[TFOGGuys]

I didn't catch the price for diesel, but they are seriously cheap.... had news crews out this morning...I'll check diesel tomorrow when I go by...

[Jim_Vess]

Rybo is right.
If you want to keep gas prices low use less of it. A demand less than the supply will mean lower prices. To keep the prices low however we need to have a different way of powering things.

Pickens plan seems very plausible to me, replacing gas powered fleet vehicles with natural gas and replacing the natural gas power plants with wind. Keeping more of the 700 billion a year we send over seas for oil in this county would also have a positive effect on jobs, incomes, taxes and purchasing.

I thinks it’s the one thing conservatives and liberals can buy in on.

Pickens plan sounds good, but has some problems.

First, wind energy is not reliable enough to replace all the gas-fired power plants. Other sources such as coal and nuclear would be needed.

Second, the increased demand for natural gas that would occur if it is the primary fuel source for fleet vehicles will drive up the price of gas used for heat. Just as has happened after the increased use of natural gas to produce electricity.

He has some good ideas, but the solutions aren't that simple. Until electric storage technologies improve, wind will not be able replace other sources of power generation.

[Snowman]

I agree, the simple solution is long since past.
Nuclear, Solar, Thermal Updraft and Clean Coal will have to all be employed to keep the power coming. But Pickens plan is a first step and won’t cover all the oil we import. But we have to start somewhere.

[Clovis]

Western at $1.94/gal is currently the cheapest per the CS Gas buddy.

http://www.coloradospringsgasprices.com/

To answer the question someone asked as to why the government would want to artifically raise the price of gas by lowering supply, here's my explanation. I don't have any offical links or what not so this is just my theory and probably others as well.

There are those in the world that believe that through the burning of fossile fuels we're slowly killing the planet, namely through "climate change" or "global warming" or whichever name it goes by. The planet is going through a change tempature wise, however earth records (read: ice cores) show the earth naturally goes through periods of warming and cooling and has done so for at least hundreds of thousands of years, if not billions.

Personally, I'm not sold on the idea that we are to blame for this but rather it's more likely a coiencidence.

The idea behind keeping the prices high is to keep "green" ideas popular and fiscally plausable to ultimately get Americans off oil as the primary means of fuel for transportation.

The far left democrats want to exert control over our lives by keeping oil too expensive to be affordable and practical, essentially forcing people to live in smaller houses, drive smaller cars and use mass transit; this is how much of Europe travels and lives. Meanwhile the elite have so much wealth they can continue to live their lifestyle without being effected by their policies.

Europe can live like this and use mass transit mainly because of their infastructure; Europians largely do not live 20-100 miles from where they work, their cities are much more condenced then American cities, public transportation is effective but in America it would not be; simply we're too large and spread out for it to be.

This is how you have people like Al Gore who preach about the evil of global warming and how we need to drive smaller cars, live in smaller homes yet he lives in a Mansion which uses as much energy as 20 normal homes in a year, and flies around the country in a private jet, arguably one of the greatest waste of fossil fuels. Al Gore "offsets" this by buying "carbon credits" - an idea that you can drive that SUV, live in the huge house as long as you buy "carbon credits" to offset it, meaning simply if you're wealthy you can continue to live your life style while forcing everyone else to change.

Now, keeping the price ariticially high does have one benifit I can see. Oil is fininte and will hit the peak and run out some day; estimates of this occuring place it between 15 and 100 years from now.

So, at one point oil will not be economically feasable to be used in the manner it is today and an alternative will be required. I would prefer to build these alternatives before we hit peak oil. Additionally if we were able to significally reduce or even eliminate our oil imports we would cease the greatest transfer of wealth (US to oil exporters) in human history and I imagine our interest in middle eastern affairs, save for Isreal would evapurate.

-Clovis

[guegreen]

2 things.. 1 right after obama got president all gas prices here went up 10 cents

2. The govt. is shutting down over 1 million oil rigs in the US.. Not due to lack of production but because the govt wants the gas prices to go back up.. how messed up is that??

So enjoy it while it lasts cause its not gonna last long..

---------------------
Are you a complete idiot?
This week, oil hit a 21-month low. Following the election. Retail prices for gas move for lots of reasons, including local market conditions, are the willingness of retailers to try make just a bit more profit.

There are no where near a million "oil rigs" in the US.

If you mean drilling rigs, there are currently 1992 working drill rigs (oil and gas) in the US. The gov't has no legal authority to "shut down" rigs. That's right, folks, the gov't requires legal authority, based in statute, act.

The rig count in the US has been flat for most of the decade (about 1300 in 01 and the same in 06), increasing about 10% over the last two years as there has been a boom in a variety of shale formations from North Dakota to Texas.

Oil will drift slowly up to about $80/bbl by the end of Q1 09. Oil prices crashed in the past 2 months due to... the credit crisis-- hedge funds that very heavy in commodities faced margin calls and redemptions; money went out of equities and commodities (oil) into into treasuries; and the stock crash strengthened the dollar in relative terms, driving down oil, which is priced in dollars; and finally the recession is causing energy demand destruction-- US gasoline tax receipts are down consecutive months since May.

Long-term, as the economy recovers, expect $150/bbl oil by the summer of 2010.

Have you thought that your steady diet of right wing/conspiracy-oriented propaganda has eroded what little faculty for reasoning you might have had? Does the fact that cause and effect in the greater world just plain eludes you give you pause? In your stead, I would certainly wonder why I display my depthless ignorance to the world at large, without reflection or evidence or reason.

[guegreen]

Can't we just get gas from Venezuela?? Screw OPEC
I really do not care about what type of leader Chavez is.

Terri there is always room for boob pics.

Venezuela is a member of OPEC. One of the most militant members, in terms of production caps. And probably one of the most prolific cheaters, in producing more than they say they do...

They have little refining capacity, so we don't buy "gas" from them but "oil."
Note, the Venezuelans have lots of sour (high sulfur content) and heavy oil, both of which are costly to refine. Their "heavy" oil reserves are the greatest in the hemisphere.
And Chavez is having real problems from the drop in prices-- inflation plus government deficits.

We couldn't substitute Venezuelan oil for Canadian, North Sea, Nigerian and Middle Eastern oil even if we wanted to. Their max production has been about 3.6 mbbl per day. And seems to be on the decline (down about 25% under Chavez), now about 2.4 mbbl per day. We consume, currently, half of that. We (the U.S.) consume 20.68 million barrels per day.
Uh, that's why can't "just get gas from Venezuela."

[Filo]

Western at $1.94/gal is currently the cheapest per the CS Gas buddy.

http://www.coloradospringsgasprices.com/

To answer the question someone asked as to why the government would want to artifically raise the price of gas by lowering supply, here's my explanation. I don't have any offical links or what not so this is just my theory and probably others as well.

There are those in the world that believe that through the burning of fossile fuels we're slowly killing the planet, namely through "climate change" or "global warming" or whichever name it goes by. The planet is going through a change tempature wise, however earth records (read: ice cores) show the earth naturally goes through periods of warming and cooling and has done so for at least hundreds of thousands of years, if not billions.

Personally, I'm not sold on the idea that we are to blame for this but rather it's more likely a coiencidence.

The idea behind keeping the prices high is to keep "green" ideas popular and fiscally plausable to ultimately get Americans off oil as the primary means of fuel for transportation.

The far left democrats want to exert control over our lives by keeping oil too expensive to be affordable and practical, essentially forcing people to live in smaller houses, drive smaller cars and use mass transit; this is how much of Europe travels and lives. Meanwhile the elite have so much wealth they can continue to live their lifestyle without being effected by their policies.

Europe can live like this and use mass transit mainly because of their infastructure; Europians largely do not live 20-100 miles from where they work, their cities are much more condenced then American cities, public transportation is effective but in America it would not be; simply we're too large and spread out for it to be.

This is how you have people like Al Gore who preach about the evil of global warming and how we need to drive smaller cars, live in smaller homes yet he lives in a Mansion which uses as much energy as 20 normal homes in a year, and flies around the country in a private jet, arguably one of the greatest waste of fossil fuels. Al Gore "offsets" this by buying "carbon credits" - an idea that you can drive that SUV, live in the huge house as long as you buy "carbon credits" to offset it, meaning simply if you're wealthy you can continue to live your life style while forcing everyone else to change.

Now, keeping the price ariticially high does have one benifit I can see. Oil is fininte and will hit the peak and run out some day; estimates of this occuring place it between 15 and 100 years from now.

So, at one point oil will not be economically feasable to be used in the manner it is today and an alternative will be required. I would prefer to build these alternatives before we hit peak oil. Additionally if we were able to significally reduce or even eliminate our oil imports we would cease the greatest transfer of wealth (US to oil exporters) in human history and I imagine our interest in middle eastern affairs, save for Isreal would evapurate.

-Clovis

Good lord Clovis, you are tacking further and further right. This has to be the best right wing paranoid shit I have seen in quite some time. Way to add nothing but partisan bullshit into the discussion.

1) The whole global-warming-is-coincidence thing is pretty lame. CO2 and other greenhouse gasses does change the temperature of the planet. To understand this (rather than just parrot what Rush and the ultra right wing want you to) start with radiation theory. Take the black body radiation of the sun, find out where the energy is concentrated and find out how CO2 and other gases affect it (use the absorptivity/transmissivity/reflectivity of the atmosphere for this). Then calculate the black body radiation of the earth. Note how the shift in the wavelength of the radiation causes a big increase in reflectivity due to increased CO2 in the atmosphere. Is this all the reason? No, probably not. There is probably some contribution from cyclical varaiations too. But the scientists who claim it isn't happening are almost always harboring conflicitng interests - being paid for by the gas companies. Do the math, I have and it isn't that hard (and no, I am not any sort of government sponsored scientist). But stop with the right wing talk radio arguments, because they are unhelpful. And besides, if that doesn't sway you to drive less, try

2) Burning fossil fuels releases benzene, hexane, soot, particulates, and a host of other carcinogens. This is directly related to the rise of asthma, emphysema, and cancers. But if that still doesn't appeal to your ultra-right-wing-the-liberal-elite-is-out-to-get-me-personally persona, try

3) Oil is a finite resource. Burning it in a vehicle that gets 10mpg instead of one that gets 30mph for no other reason than "I want to, oh wait I need to" is selfish, self centered, short sighted and obnoxious. Perhaps that isn't a good enough reason. Try this one

4) You cite the desire to push alternate fuels as a left wing conspiracy. The rest of the world (that doesn't get Rush and Fox news) is going to go ahead with alternative energy. We can either choose to get educated, trained and compete with them technologically or we can choose to serve them their coffees, pump their gas replacements, and get them their home loans financed through China. Since the alternative energy sector is such a left wing conspiracy drain, we should see the 1400 jobs that Vestas Wind energy and the 500 jobs AVA Solar is adding to the Colorado economy as nothing more than a welfare state program. We should definitelky resist learning anything at all about alternative fuels.


I am sorry you are not convinced about global warming. I am sorry that your political leanings have negated the really good science that has gone into global warming. There is a question as to HOW MUCH of the rise is due to human activity, but there is absolutely no question that we have caused a rise in temperature and it is not insignificant. Remember, I have no agenda here. I don't make my money doing anything having to do with gloabal warming or alternative energy. The folks on talk radio, Fax news, etc do make their money by creating controversy. It is unfortunate that they have chosen a non-political question and turned it into a political football. Once again it shows how the media (both the left and the right) is not serving the best interests of this country.

Oh, and one final thing. OPEC and the oil companies have much, much more reason to keep the price of gas high. Their sole purpose for existing is to maximize return for investors. They have no other reason to be. The higher the price of gas, the more profit they make. Plain and simple. If you will buy gas at $10.00 a gallon, they will sell it to you at that. There is no need to bring some vast left wing conspiracy into the picture.

[MattTLS]

2) Burning fossil fuels releases benzene, hexane, soot, particulates, and a host of other carcinogens. This is directly related to the rise of asthma, emphysema, and cancers. But if that still doesn't appeal to your ultra-right-wing-the-liberal-elite-is-out-to-get-me-personally persona, try

3) Oil is a finite resource. Burning it in a vehicle that gets 10mpg instead of one that gets 30mph for no other reason than "I want to, oh wait I need to" is selfish, self centered, short sighted and obnoxious. Perhaps that isn't a good enough reason. Try this one

As far as the politics is concerned, anyone with an agenda can manipulate data to push their ideas. Personally, I think there is yet MUCH to be learned before it can be qualitatively determined the extent to which human activity affects whatever level of global warming that may exist.

As for some of your other statements, it sounds like we should all 'try' to do our parts to save the world. By your signature line, it looks like you may be a racer. If so, is this something you simply 'want' to do, or is it something you actually 'need' to do? Are you ready to stop racing, and in fact riding altogether, in order to do your part to 'try' to minimize harm done to the world? My guess is that you'll continue to be "selfish, self centered, short sighted and obnoxious", all the while disregarding the ramifications of your actions. If I was still racing, I know how I'd answer. :) I don't ride near as often as I'd like, and I'll not stop. I drive a car that gets near fifty mpg, the reason being that I don't like to waste money getting from here to there. I wouldn't condone wasting resources simply burn them up, but I'm not about to stop living my life as I'd like either. To each his own ....

[Filo]

As for some of your other statements, it sounds like we should all 'try' to do our parts to save the world. By your signature line, it looks like you may be a racer. If so, is this something you simply 'want' to do, or is it something you actually 'need' to do? Are you ready to stop racing, and in fact riding altogether, in order to do your part to 'try' to minimize harm done to the world? My guess is that you'll continue to be "selfish, self centered, short sighted and obnoxious", all the while disregarding the ramifications of your actions. If I was still racing, I know how I'd answer. :) I don't ride near as often as I'd like, and I'll not stop. I drive a car that gets near fifty mpg, the reason being that I don't like to waste money getting from here to there. I wouldn't condone wasting resources simply burn them up, but I'm not about to stop living my life as I'd like either. To each his own ....

No, you don't understand. Everything I believe is the truth. It is everyone else's point of view that is wrong. :)