GM even admits that their cars are pieces of shit

[Aracheon]

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE4B738W20081208


DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp on Monday unveiled an unusually frank advertisement acknowledging it had "disappointed" and sometimes even "betrayed" American consumers as it lobbies to clinch the federal aid it needs to stay afloat into next month.

The print advertisement marked a sharp break from GM's public stance of just several weeks ago when it sought to justify its bid for a U.S. government on the grounds that the credit crisis had undermined its business in ways executives could never have foreseen.

It also came as Chief Executive Rick Wagoner, who has led the automaker since 2000, faces new pressure to step aside as GM seeks up to $18 billion in federal funding.

"While we're still the U.S. sales leader, we acknowledge we have disappointed you," the ad said. "At times we violated your trust by letting our quality fall below industry standards and our designs became lackluster."
The unsigned open letter, entitled "GM's Commitment to the American People" ran in the trade journal Automotive News, which is widely read by industry executives, lobbyists and other insiders.

In the ad, GM admits to other strategic missteps analysts and critics have said hastened its recent decline.
"We have proliferated our brands and dealer network to the point where we lost adequate focus on the core U.S. market," the ad said. "We also biased our product mix toward pick-up trucks and SUVs."
But GM also says in the ad that it was hit by forces beyond its control as it tried to complete a restructuring earlier this year.

"Despite moving quickly to reduce our planned spending by over $20 billion, GM finds itself precariously and frighteningly close to running out of cash," the ad says.

A failure of GM would deepen the current recession and put "millions of job at risk," according to the ad, which also highlights the automaker's pledged restructuring and intention to begin repaying taxpayers in 2011.
GM spokesman Greg Martin said the ad was an attempt by the automaker to present "a pledge directly to the public."
"We believe we need to deliver this commitment unfiltered since quite a bit of media commentary has not kept pace with our actual progress to transform the company," Martin said.

Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd, a Democrat from Connecticut who is central to the effort to craft an auto bailout bill, on Sunday said GM should replace Wagoner.
GM says Wagoner has the support of the company's board.
(Reporting by Kevin Krolicki, editing by Dave Zimmerman)

[Keyser Soze]

I'll say they are... especially these 2...

http://www.motorator.com/images/blog_archives/2007/12/2009_zr1_1.jpg

http://www.lingenfelter.com/images/9611004155.jpg

Shit..I'd rather have a toyota or honda any day

[Foolds]

Whats more amazing is Chris lives!

[puckstr]

I want a SKYLINE

[Foolds]

I want a SKYLINE


With an Exploding Trannie, and a Launch control system you can't use. Also a black box recorder they use against you in claims... No Thanks!

[asp_125]

http://www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/top10/05.trucks.worst.residual.value/05.pontiac.aztek.500.jpg

It took them this long to admit the obvious?

[Ceez]

http://www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/top10/05.trucks.worst.residual.value/05.pontiac.aztek.500.jpg

It took them this long to admit the obvious?


WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?!??! :shocked: That car is gangsta....throw some wire wheels and some curb feelers on that thing and you got your self a LOVE MA-CHEEN! :hump:

[SupermotoMJ]

I will agree. at least the current models, my 07 silverado has been in the shop with a problem every oil change. Electornics, gauge cluster, weather stripping. I will be pursuing the extended warranty before mine expires.. I'n defense it is not just GM that is cutting corners on new vehicles.. I'ts all about making a buck..

[200sr20]

I'll say they are... especially these 2...

http://www.motorator.com/images/blog_archives/2007/12/2009_zr1_1.jpg

http://www.lingenfelter.com/images/9611004155.jpg

Shit..I'd rather have a toyota or honda any day

These are fine examples that you can polish a turd!


I want a SKYLINE

Ah....Japan's bitchslap to the above cars

[dirkterrell]

I will admit that the US automakers have made improvements in quality in the last few years. The UAW also seems to have gotten the clue that they were running themselves out of jobs. And it is true that the downturn in the economy hits the auto industry hard. I'm hoping that the current situation scares the living shit out of the people in industry and they will now move forward with quality and competitiveness as their primary concerns when things like union contracts and executive management contracts are negotiated.

When they truly get the message that they can't continue their previous approaches and expect the taxpayers to bail them out, they'll develop into healthy businesses. And it _is_ in our best interest as a country to have that kind of large-scale manufacturing capability if a large, prolonged military conflict broke out. That is one reason why I have always bought American cars even though I knew I could get something better from Honda or Toyota. The cost-benefit analysis tipped in that direction for me. Lately I had been waning, though, because I didn't feel that Detroit was doing their share. If they can show that they get the message, I will buy from them.

Dirk

[Aracheon]

I will give GM credit in that the powertrain in the Duramax Silverados is one fine piece of engineering, and also in the awesomeness that is the new ZR-1. But out of a massive line of cars and trucks, when you can only count on one hand the number of vehicles that don't completely suck, that's pretty damn sad.

And what's even worse is not so much the cars and what have you, but the fact that the completely retarded executive teams of the 3 companies and their mismanagement is going to completely F up jobs for the millions of employees who work for them.

[Slo]

Yeah I tried the whole buy a domestic thing when I had my 03' Cobra, interior started falling apart the second week I had it. A year ago, tried again, looking at the Jeep SRT8 and after sitting in it realizing the interior was the same crappy stuff in several other cars, never looked at it again.

As much as I like Japanese/European cars, I hope GM steps it up, competition is always good for the consumer in the end.

[Nick_Ninja]

I have owned Toyota's for the past 28 years. I will never by an American car as long as I inhabit this planet.

[Ceez]

I have always had good luck with GM cars. I have owned a 63 Impala, 64 Impala, 70 GTO, 85 Cutlass Supreme, 00 Chevy Cavalier and an 03 Yukon XL. The only bad luck I have had with any of the vehicles was the fuel pump went out on the Yukon at 40k miles. The dealership towed it for me and replaced it for free as well as the fuel filter and a new harness for the pump. Even though I was outside the 36K warranty, they wrote it off and I havent had any issues since. Maybe im just lucky...who knows. Regardless, its nice to see a major corporation acknowledge thier own faults. Hopefully they correct them and regain the consumers trust once again.

[Keyser Soze]

These are fine examples that you can polish a turd!



Ah....Japan's bitchslap to the above cars

This is proof that you're a moron

[puckstr]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg13/MrIKnow/billbo20.jpg

[Ghost]

With an Exploding Trannie, and a Launch control system you can't use. Also a black box recorder they use against you in claims... No Thanks!

GM pretty much started the Black Box (SDM/EDR) in the 1990s, and ALL GM prodcts from 1997+ have a data logger.

One was successfully used against the owner of a Corvette in FLA.




GM AIR BAG SDM / BLACK BOX / EDR / CRASH DATA AVAILABLE (depending on year and model)
Vehicle speed (in five one-second intervals preceding impact)
Engine speed (in five one-second intervals preceding impact)
Brake status (in five one-second intervals preceding impact)
Throttle position (in five one-second intervals preceding impact)
Driver's seat belt state (On/Off)
Passenger's airbag enabled or disabled state (On/Off)
Airbag Warning Lamp status (On/Off)
Time from vehicle impact to airbag deployment
Maximum Delta-V ( DV ) for near-deployment event
Delta-V ( DV ) vs. time for frontal airbag deployment event
Time from vehicle impact to time of maximum Delta-V ( DV )
Time between near-deploy and deploy event (if within 5 seconds)

Additional crash data available 2006 and newer GM vehicles:
Low tire pressure warning system status
Traction control status
Anti lock brake status
Transmission range
Service engine lamp status
Vehicle door 2/4 status open/closed
Outside air temperature in degrees F
Passenger seat belt switch
Yaw rate
Lateral acceleration
Steering wheel angle
PDOF / Principal direction of force degrees

And more...


Old (1999?) Article



GM autos have 'black box' containing crash data


By CATHERINE STRONG
Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) - General Motors Corp. has installed devices in hundreds of thousands of its cars that collect data when a car crashes, much like a black box on an airplane.
Doctors, engineers and government officials say the information can help them better understand how the human body tolerates car crashes. They plan to use that knowledge to construct safer cars, improve the treatment of crash victims and write government auto safety standards that would better protect passengers in auto accidents.
The existence of the so-called auto black box system is raising sensitive privacy questions about whether such information could be used in litigation.
The most sophisticated version of GM's device, known formally as a sensing and diagnostic module, is in hundreds of thousands of GM cars from the 1999 model year: the Buick Century, Park Avenue and Regal; the Cadillac Eldorado, DeVille and SeVille; the Chevrolet Camaro and Corvette; and the Pontiac Firebird.
The module will be in almost all GM vehicles in a few years, the company says.
The module, part of the air bag sensing system, stores information in the few seconds before a car sensor identifies a crash and fires the air bags. The data include the speed of the car, whether the driver was wearing a seat belt, when an air bag deployed and whether the driver used the brakes.
GM quietly installed different versions of the sensing system on some cars throughout the 1990s, but the modules have become more sophisticated. Their existence became public in a paper written by GM and government engineers and presented at a conference last month.
Until now, government crash investigators could only take an educated guess at the speed of a car involved in an accident, based on evidence at the crash scene.
GM is the only automaker that makes such data and a tool to recover it available to researchers, the paper said. GM hopes to have laptops available so government crash investigators can download data independently of the company by the end of the year.

[Canuck]

Fuck GM. Ever since they ruined my beloved SAAB brand, I've had enough of them, and I went through 3 different SAAB models before realizing this. GM is great for ruining the brands they have by making them bland with the others in the stable and their quality is shite as well.

I now roll with zee Germans and haven't looked back.

[MAZIN]

In the last few years I had bought about 4 cars. I bought my wife a new 06 Mazda 6 that was a POS, after a year of babying that car the heater spit crap all over, the furl pump would make the whole car jerk when it got below a half a tank and after all that with 11k on the OD the valves had to be replaced. The same year I had bought a jeep and after title issues with the dealership they ended up giving my another jeep. They both were utter crap. I traded in both the Mazda and the Jeep in and got my wife and I two Toyota Fj's and could not be happier. I still have a 98 F150 but other than that if its not a classic I wont buy another domestic.

[Devaclis]

Elitists

[Nick_Ninja]

Elitists

You can ride in my Elitist 4-Runner with beer holders :D

[Devaclis]

I like the 4 runner. Wish I had one :)

[Sortarican]

You are all treasonous bastards.
(you're right about the cars.....but you're still bastards.)


I love my American cars.
Without them I would never have learned automotive repair.

[TFOGGuys]

Like it was necessary to admit it, when they foist crap like THIS on the public:

http://www.dieselchevette.com/dieselchevettelogo.gif

[FZ1Guy]

:pointlaugh: BwaHaHaHa..... what a POS :banghead:

[SamuraiX]

This is proof that you're a moron

Wasn't he agreeing with you and your corvette bashing?

[Canuck]

Rob is just pissed that he is stuck in Wisconsin.

[Ghost]

Like it was necessary to admit it, when they foist crap like THIS on the public:

http://www.dieselchevette.com/dieselchevettelogo.gif

Because the Chevy "Shovit" would've been too obvious...

[puckstr]

Don't forget the Chevy LUV
http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/images/chevy_luv.jpg

[Devaclis]

Gas guzzlers!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/devaclis/gaykid1.jpg

[modette99]

..

[McVaaahhh]

My biggest complaint with American vehicles is their resale value. Jenny's Grand Prix was bought new in '04, has 50k on it and is pretty much worthless. We've had no problems with it other than a sway bar noise related to an accident, but it's been reliable otherwise.

I'm not particularly loyal to any one brand or country of origin, but for trucks and SUV's I simply like the American styling better. I really like the new Full size GM Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade and the Ford F-series pickups.

However, our next new car will probably be a certified pre-owned Lexus.

[Sortarican]

My biggest complaint with American vehicles is their resale value...

I'm not following you??????.....res?......resaaaa?.....resaaaaale? :think:

Never heard that word before.
What does it mean?:dunno:

[McVaaahhh]

I'm not following you??????.....res?......resaaaa?.....resaaaaale? :think:

Never heard that word before.
What does it mean?:dunno:

I know that's not in your vocabulary Jeff, but trust me, it exists. :lol:

[Nick_Ninja]

Latest Headline ---- Auto Bailout Appears Dead in Senate as G.O.P. Resists

Would this be considered tossin the UAW under the bus?

[Ghost]

Latest Headline ---- Auto Bailout Appears Dead in Senate as G.O.P. Resists

Would this be considered tossin the UAW under the bus?

Depends, is it an American-made bus?

[Slo]

I myself am not looking at buying Domestic, the only ones I would consider are out of my reach for now.

However, I would still like to see them get some help only due to all the people working that it would affect if they went under. But definitely a re-structure is needed in place from even at the design levels on up.

[UglyDogRacing]

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn373/UglyDogRacing/Funny/bailout.jpg

[Keyser Soze]

Wasn't he agreeing with you and your corvette bashing?

I was being sarcastic. Typical GTR nutswingers bash what they dont know. Z06 WILL stomp the GTR. ZR1 is up there with the super cars and out performing most. Both made by rednecks in Bowling Green Kentucky. Here's another GM piece of shit the world cant stop raving about...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2318/2241921226_c6600be546.jpg

[Keyser Soze]

Rob is just pissed that he is stuck in Wisconsin.

Its not that bad eh! Just gotta get used to the rude ass people, shitty roads, and the fact that your car will be rusted away in a year. :drink:

[Sortarican]

.. But definitely a re-structure is needed in place from even at the design levels on up.

They're supposed to appoint a "Car Czar" to oversee them.
But if that would improve Detroit's operations or just add another layer of bureaucracy to it would remain to be seen.

[Devaclis]

Is Lee Iownacocconut coming back?

[puckstr]

I want them to fail because

I HATE NASCAR.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i144/Krank_konigin/NascarBlows.jpg

[Captain Obvious]

I am in the market for a new truck, and my leaders are the Tundra and Titan. But the F150 and Silverado are only a couple steps behind. I am leaning away from trying another Dodge as they are expensive to fix and have a history of needing a bit more maintenance than the others.

But the article was an interesting piece. I guess they are trying the hat in hand technique now.

[GregsGSXR]

What about this all tine classic. Ford pinto stationwagon...dare to dream

http://www.lovefords.org/78/pintobobcat/New_Folder/1978_ford_pinto_cruisesilver_001.jpg

[Sortarican]

What about this all tine classic. Ford pinto stationwagon...dare to dream
LOL,
Don't have to dream, my family owned a Porthole Pinto.

It was our second Pinto and was actually a fun little car.
(But rusted out and was only good for 100K miles like all cars of that era.)

[Jim_Vess]

Is there really any difference between so-called foreign and domestic cars today? :dunno:

Practically every manufacturer - even Hyundai - builds cars in the States now. All the manufacturers are multi-national and most have at least one model that's a piece of shit.

[Ghost]

Is there really any difference between so-called foreign and domestic cars today? :dunno:

Practically every manufacturer - even Hyundai - builds cars in the States now. All the manufacturers are multi-national and most have at least one model that's a piece of shit.

Which is to get around the various tariffs on imports.

And while most of the smaller cars are still fully built in Japan, the majority of the rest are "assembled" here from parts shipped in from overseas, but the components aren't manufactured here, and the assembly is more automated than in the domestic plants.

--and that's for the few "Big Three" plants still operating in the US, the rest are in either in Mexico or Canada or they're Japanese or Korean cars rebadged with domestic nameplates.

[Pandora-11]

Toyota/Lexus....the only cars to buy.

[TFOGGuys]

GM's latest Brown...er....Green car:
http://www.trendhunter.com/images/phpthumbnails/10805_3_468.jpeg

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

...I went through 3 different SAAB models before realizing this.
Most people would have realized this after the first.....but that's ok, we understand......:)

My dad and uncles had Saabs dating to the early 60's. My uncle still swears by them, but thankfully my dad wised up. They were always too funky for me. The new Volvos look nice, but the Saabs.....well, it's still a face only a mutha could love....

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

LOL,
Don't have to dream, my family owned a Butthole Pinto.

Spell-checked it for ya bro.:)

[TFOGGuys]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/9/91/CRAPMOBILE.JPG

[derekm]

I have my 66 Fairlane & a 2000 Durango. I all but have the Dodge paid off, but unless I can get a decent (bwahaha) trade in towards a Tacoma next year looks like I'll keep it as a back up vehicle. The classic car is the only shitbox I need....

[Tipys]

With an Exploding Trannie, and a Launch control system you can't use. Also a black box recorder they use against you in claims... No Thanks!

All cars the are OBD 2 and up have Black boxes in them.

[Tipys]

Is there really any difference between so-called foreign and domestic cars today? :dunno:

Practically every manufacturer - even Hyundai - builds cars in the States now. All the manufacturers are multi-national and most have at least one model that's a piece of shit.

Its all really about mantiacne you can make any car run for a while if you take care of it. Some car companys make them easier to take care of the others. The American car companys pay there higher up people way more then they should.

[Toner]

:dunno:
Its all really about mantiacne.
What??

[rforsythe]

:dunno:
What??

Mantiacne. It's like acne, but worse. Scourge of the teenage years.... It's just ... manti, man!

To the guy who posted that in the first place - yeah keeping your car maintained goes a long way, but the fact is some are just fundamentally flawed when they leave the factory. Oil changes and air filters won't prevent a total piece of shit from breaking on you.

The Superduty's are actually decent, so when I needed a large truck the F-350 was adopted. I can't see owning much else any of the three companies have made though, unless you count something like a '67-68 Mustang -- however that isn't really in the same category.

Donna had a Saturn (GM product), it always had something going wrong with it. OTOH, the 4Runner we found to replace it is rock solid, as all of the other Toyota's I've owned have been.

[Sortarican]

.... Some car companys make them easier to take care of the others.....

True that.
I'd like to shoot the engineer that decided the starter should be wrapped by the exhaust pipes so that when it fails
you have to break off 12 manifold bolts that have been rusting for the last 10 years.:banghead:

Another reason I love classic cars.
Open the hood and not only can you identify everything.
Hell, if you want you can sit in the engine compartment while you wrench on it.


:dunno:
What??

LOL,
It took me a while to figure that one out. Medicine?....main acne?.....manicure?....:think::dunno:
(Tipsys a good guy though. I blame the public school system.)

[Devaclis]

The real problem is not with the cars, it is with the people that own them. Just my $ .38

[TFOGGuys]

The real problem is not with the cars, it is with the people that own them. Just my $ .38
S'truth! We have totally unreasonable expectations:

A car should start and run every time I decide to drive it somewhere

A car should last more than 20000 miles without requiring any major repairs

A car should have a reasonable level or fit and finish, and not rattle like a handful of lugnuts in a coffee can every time I drive over a bump in the road

A car should not be subject to 11 safety recalls in the first year due to horrible engineering

A car should have more resale value after 2 years than used toilet paper

You see? We're TOTALLY unreasonable!

Meanwhile, I'll continue to drive my 270K mile Toyota MR2.....:)

[puckstr]

We need the HOMER

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1b/The_Homer_by_Carlos_Bisquertt.jpg

http://jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2008/06/TheHomer.jpg

[Sortarican]

Meanwhile, I'll continue to drive my 270K mile Toyota MR2.....:)

Wow, an MR2?
I didn't know you were gay Jim.
:lol:
(J/K, but if it was a Fiero or Miata I'd be outin' ya.)

[dirkterrell]

Donna had a Saturn (GM product), it always had something going wrong with it.

I've had two Saturns (1993 SC1 and 2006 Vue) that never needed anything beyond routine maintenance. My 1998 Expedition had the mass airflow sensor go out a few years ago but that's about it. The SC1 has ~165K on it and the Expedition is at about ~115K.

Dirk

[puckstr]

I've had two Saturns (1993 SC1 and 2006 Vue) that never needed anything beyond routine maintenance. My 1998 Expedition had the mass airflow sensor go out a few years ago but that's about it. The SC1 has ~165K on it and the Expedition is at about ~115K.

Dirk


I drive a 1998 SL2 5-speed and it is fantastic. 35mpg city 42mpg hwy:hump:
Kicks the shit out of my old Grand Cherokee 15mpg going downhill

[Pandora-11]

OTOH, the 4Runner we found to replace it is rock solid, as all of the other Toyota's I've owned have been.

See...Toyotas people.....even old Toytotas are the way to go.

[Ghost]

5 Subarus, my '98 went to 221,000miles before I sold it. I still see it running around, and the highest-mileage Subie I ever saw at the dealership was an 01 Forester that a regional sales rep in TX had-- 417,000miles and still running on the original powertrain.

I've owned GM products in the past, some were utter shit-bombs that would detonate when you least needed them to, others were "acceptable".

At a quick count, I think I've owned 6, and one was such a POS that it got lemon-lawed (which was an ordeal in its own right), one was actually pretty good, the rest were somewhere between "unreliable money pit" and "marginally acceptable if you've never owned or driven an Japanese car and thus don't know how good 'cheap' cars actually can be."

Still, if you want a real POS, buy a BMW or Audi, especially used and out of their included service period. They're no more reliable than US cars, but they cost 5x as much to repair.

[Canuck]

Toyota's aren't crap, but they are still overrated. Most models have that over-the-top cheap japanese plastic interior.
IMO, the majority of newer Japanese cars have lost their soul. Bland and boaring.

[puckstr]

The Best car I ever had was an 85 Volvo 244 that I added a turbo and IC.
Fun drifting monster..untill I seized the input shaft bearing in the trans.

It had 250,000 miles in it when I sold it. Recently I saw it on I-25 alive and still kicking

[Sortarican]

352,000 miles on my '81 AMC Jeep CJ5.

[TFOGGuys]

352,000 miles on my '81 AMC Jeep CJ5.

and the shitty plastic valve cover has leaked since about mile 2.....

[Sortarican]

and the shitty plastic valve cover has leaked since about mile 2.....

:lol: You must have owned one.

I tapped the head and replaced it with an aluminium one.
Jeep wanted like $80 (in the late 1980's) for the fancy neoprene/steel gasket to keep the original plastic valve cover from leaking.

Though one upside to a leaky v/c gasket, never had a seized bolt anywhere that the oil found it's way too.
(Which was most of the drive train.)

[TFOGGuys]

:lol: You must have owned one.

I tapped the head and replaced it with an aluminium one.
Jeep wanted like $80 (in the late 1980's) for the fancy neoprene/steel gasket to keep the original plastic valve cover from leaking.

Though one upside to a leaky v/c gasket, never had a seized bolt anywhere that the oil found it's way too.
(Which was most of the rest of the vehicle, adjoining vehicles, parks, and beaches.)

Fixored. Nah, I never owned one, but I worked in auto parts for a long time. The high zoot gaskets sealed better, but didn't keep 'em from leaking when the valve cover cracked. I assumed it was a 258, since none of the V8s would cover near that many miles before the oil pump quit and seized the crank going down the highway.

[Sortarican]

... I assumed it was a 258,...

Yup, the venerable straight-six.
Lousy carter carbs too. But replaced that with an aftermarket.

Anyone who's seen it, or God forbid rode in it, can testify that the thing is beat to hell.
I'm starting to think my Jeep may be a zombie, she just won't die.

[Keyser Soze]

The real problem is not with the cars, it is with the people that own them. Just my $ .38

Wiser words have not been spoken!