The end of the United States of America

[Snowman]

Russian Predicts U.S. Breakup by 2010 (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html)

"He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S. When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union. Social unrest up to and including a civil war will follow. The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in.

California will form the nucleus of what he calls "The Californian Republic," and will be part of China or under Chinese influence. Texas will be the heart of "The Texas Republic," a cluster of states that will go to Mexico or fall under Mexican influence. Washington, D.C., and New York will be part of an "Atlantic America" that may join the European Union. Canada will grab a group of Northern states Prof. Panarin calls "The Central North American Republic." Hawaii, he suggests, will be a protectorate of Japan or China, and Alaska will be subsumed into Russia."

[Devaclis]

Russia could not predict the break up of Russia. I doubt their old Tandy Color Computers can predict what time tomorrow is :)

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I think it'll be sooner than that. Soon as Oh-Bama the Supreme Socialist takes office......

[dapper]

:viking:
A revised Sparta' forecast?

Russia wants Alaska...
Japan wanted Alaska back in the day...

Let's hurry up to wait and see how it unfolds.

[Nick_Ninja]

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/funny-pictures-cat-lives-in-a-depressed-economy2.jpg

[Snowman]

I believe Colorado would be better severed to be a part of The Californian Republic. Last thing we need is to become part of Texas.


:viking:
A revised Sparta' forecast?

Russia wants Alaska...
Japan wanted Alaska back in the day...

Let's hurry up to wait and see how it unfolds.
And then Palin will be able to see Russia fro her house.

[Nick_Ninja]

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/funny-pictures-cat-paper-ball-recession.jpg

[rforsythe]

I think we're due for another good civil unrest, especially if the government tries to introduce some dramatic reduction in our rights to own firearms, or blatantly kill constitutional rights (more than they already do). Economic downturn is certainly a stress factor in any good civil uprising, but hardly the cause of one in this case IMO since most people are happy as long as the TV works.

But yeah, I'm not holding my breath on what this guy predicts. I did like the part at the bottom though... "He cites French political scientist Emmanuel Todd. Mr. Todd is famous for having rightly forecast the demise of the Soviet Union -- 15 years beforehand. "When he forecast the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1976, people laughed at him," says Prof. Panarin."

Perhaps it's not possible to predict one's own demise? Has ANY world power in history actually successfully done that and then prevented it, going on to prosper?

[Kim-n-Dean]

Exactly correct!! As long as the TV's work, nobody will do shit!! Nintendo has them by the balls!! The government can now do whatever it wants, and it will!!

I don't think it has anything to do with whomever may sit in the Oval office, though. They sold us out a long time ago!!

[rforsythe]

Of course when Yosemite blows, the US might actually BE in 6 pieces...

[T-Dub]

So, would Wyoming then be part of Canada??? Isn't smoking weed there legal?????????????????

[Devaclis]

Look, the sky is falling.

[T-Dub]

I don't think it's falling, I just think it's blowing sideways right now at about 70 MPH. Damn this wind.

[Kim-n-Dean]

So, would Wyoming then be part of Canada??? Isn't smoking weed there legal?????????????????Nope! The almighty U.S. stepped in and said if you legalize it, we will withhold this and that. So, once again the U.S. controlled another country for the benefit/fucked up policy of the U.S.!!!

Wish I could afford to move to New Zealand!!

[T-Dub]

Nope! The almighty U.S. stepped in and said if you legalize it, we will withhold this and that. So, once again the U.S. controlled another country for the benefit/fucked up policy of the U.S.!!!

Wish I could afford to move to New Zealand!!


DEAR GOD!! What is wrong with us??? I smoked loads of weed in HS and would again if it was legal. To hell with alcohol, it makes my gout flair up. The only thing weed would do is make my weight flair up. :hump:

[Shea]

We would have to be saved from all the "drug crazed negros" if pot was ever legalized. Never underestimate the gullibility of the American public.

[rforsythe]

Should also point out that the Russians could never invade. Anyone who has seen Red Dawn knows that Patrick Swayze will jump out from behind a rock and kick all their asses.

[dapper]

50% tax increase at the fuel pump does not sound like an economic stimulus package. (Increase taxes on drivers and redistribute the wealth?)

Isn't -that- (http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1869309,00.html) arse backwards?

Federal funds were held from all states unless the states lowered the intoxication level from 0.1 to 0.08 for DUI. (I think)

Values of our gvt have slipped and fear is driving this country...not the ppl
(Who can we blame? We take personal responsibility for a hole in one. We call it fate when shit happens. Blame = Be Lame!)
We must voice our opinion for what we want or we will have more to b!tch about after something occurs which we do-not-want.

[DavidofColorado]

In before the lock!!

[Big-J]

Should also point out that the Russians could never invade. Anyone who has seen Red Dawn knows that Patrick Swayze will jump out from behind a rock and kick all their asses.

Not only that, we also have Chuck Norris on our side!!

[DavidofColorado]

50% tax increase at the fuel pump does not sound like an economic stimulus package. (Increase taxes on drivers and redistribute the wealth?)

Isn't -that- (http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1869309,00.html) arse backwards?

Federal funds were held from all states unless the states lowered the intoxication level from 0.1 to 0.08 for DUI. (I think)

Values of our gvt have slipped and fear is driving this country...not the ppl
(Who can we blame? We take personal responsibility for a hole in one. We call it fate when shit happens. Blame = Be Lame!)
We must voice our opinion for what we want or we will have more to b!tch about after something occurs which we do-not-want.

Those dumbass MoFo's why not fire one or two guys standing around holding the shovels and that should help with costs. Not demanding more money. Anyway I'm sure more people are driving now since gas does cost an arm and leg currently.

[puckstr]

Should also point out that the Russians could never invade. Anyone who has seen Red Dawn knows that Patrick Swayze will jump out from behind a rock and kick all their asses.


WOLVERINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://meekmok.com/muaddib/images/blog/wolverines.jpg

[pauliep]

Looks like I'll have to find a new job... Any ideas for a career change?

[Shea]

Looks like I'll have to find a new job... Any ideas for a career change?

Have you ever considered a career in piracy? You'd make a fine Dread Pirate Roberts...

[Chilly]

I think they know we are headed for Civil unrest, is this not why they stationed 20,000 of our own troops on active patrols in our own COUNTRY? So much for Posse Comitatus....



I think we're due for another good civil unrest, especially if the government tries to introduce some dramatic reduction in our rights to own firearms, or blatantly kill constitutional rights (more than they already do).

[Shea]

I think they know we are headed for Civil unrest, is this not why they stationed 20,000 of our own troops on active patrols in our own COUNTRY? So much for Posse Comitatus....

It's change we can believe in!

[rforsythe]

I think they know we are headed for Civil unrest, is this not why they stationed 20,000 of our own troops on active patrols in our own COUNTRY? So much for Posse Comitatus....

A little revolution can be a good thing, once in a while...

[DavidofColorado]

It's change we can believe in!
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2272/obamachangenazicc0wi4.jpg

[Sortarican]

So much for Posse Comitatus....

LOL,
You must be a rural boy if you know about the Comatose Posse.
(Bastards would never let us hunt on their property.)

[wulf]

I think they know we are headed for Civil unrest, is this not why they stationed 20,000 of our own troops on active patrols in our own COUNTRY? So much for Posse Comitatus....
Where are they doing active patrols?

[DavidofColorado]

Hopfully across the borders. But that would make to much sense. I think they are going to do roving patrols around VIP communities.

[rforsythe]

I think they are going to do roving patrols around VIP communities.

Based on what?

[DavidofColorado]

Based on what?
Womens intuition. If I was him that is where I would focus the patrols.

[Mental]

Oh dear damm god. Those 20,000 are not on active patrol. They just returned from Iraq and are being trained for civil RELIEF operations. Yes part of that is crowd control.

Oh and BTW, that Domestic Response Force has been in place since Katrina, the units just changed.

Jesus H Christ, you know, peaple in uniform are Americans too, do you really think 20,000 of them would go on active patrol against their own citizens for $1100 a month? Are you that damm stupid, or really just hate the military that much?

Furthermore, every person in uniform swaers an oath to the CONSTITUTION! Not the president, not the military, not even their bosses. Our goverment can't handle the train system, do you really belive it is competent enough to enforce a military state?

Dumbass

[Nick_Ninja]

Oh dear damm god. Those 20,000 are not on active patrol. They just returned from Iraq and are being trained for civil RELIEF operations. Yes part of that is crowd control.

Oh and BTW, that Domestic Response Force has been in place since Katrina, the units just changed.

Jesus H Christ, you know, peaple in uniform are Americans too, do you really think 20,000 of them would go on active patrol against their own citizens for $1100 a month? Are you that damm stupid, or really just hate the military that much?

Furthermore, every person in uniform swaers an oath to the CONSTITUTION! Not the president, not the military, not even their bosses. Our goverment can't handle the train system, do you really belive it is competent enough to enforce a military state?

Dumbass

You could not have said it better :up:

[puckstr]

Furthermore, every person in uniform swaers an oath to the CONSTITUTION! Not the president, not the military, not even their bosses. Our goverment can't handle the train system, do you really belive it is competent enough to enforce a military state?

Dumbass


The Oath of Enlistment (for enlistees):

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

The Oath of Office (for officers):

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance tot he same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."


Read a bit closer. Enlisted are obliged to OBEY the PREZ. But they are only to follow "Lawfull" orders (according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice).

[Snowman]

So when did the industrial military complex invent this machine to remove a persons conscience?

[puckstr]

So when did the industrial military complex invent this machine to remove a persons conscience?


1776?

[Shea]

1776?

The same year that George Washington signed the Treaty of Tripoli :rolleyes:

While I do believe that most of my brothers and sisters in uniform would not follow that order, some will and that will make it very interesting (should it ever come to pass)

[rforsythe]

If a group of citizens were painted as a domestic enemy, you bet your ass some (if not most) soldiers would follow that order. It would take a lot more than a small group riding up against the man to actually make it an act of turning against the citizenry, versus just being seen as quashing some angry group of wackos.

[puckstr]

If a group of citizens were painted as a domestic enemy, you bet your ass some (if not most) soldiers would follow that order. It would take a lot more than a small group riding up against the man to actually make it an act of turning against the citizenry, versus just being seen as quashing some angry group of wackos.


TRUE
and the media would report the story that way

[Mental]

The Oath of Enlistment (for enlistees):

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

The Oath of Office (for officers):

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance tot he same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."


Read a bit closer. Enlisted are obliged to OBEY the PREZ. But they are only to follow "Lawfull" orders (according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice).

No, they are obligated to obey the lawful orders of the president and officers, thats the piont of the UCMJ being added in there. Every enlisted and officer serving in the military is under lawful obligation to not follow unlawful orders. Commiting a crime and saying you were following orders will still land you in jail, according to the uniform code of military justice.

[DavidofColorado]

No, they are obligated to obey the lawful orders of the president and officers, thats the piont of the UCMJ being added in there. Every enlisted and officer serving in the military is under lawful obligation to not follow unlawful orders. Commiting a crime and saying you were following orders will still land you in jail, according to the uniform code of military justice.

In a time of war or civil unrest they have to follow orders or they could be shot by their own officers. While I love the military I don't think there are that many martars in the service. Do you think when cops bounce some kid off the trunk of the car they are thinking about protecting their rights and caring about the perp being a citizen?

[rforsythe]

No, they are obligated to obey the lawful orders of the president and officers, thats the piont of the UCMJ being added in there. Every enlisted and officer serving in the military is under lawful obligation to not follow unlawful orders. Commiting a crime and saying you were following orders will still land you in jail, according to the uniform code of military justice.

That's the point though. Taking arms against the government or other citizens/military/etc IS technically illegal. The only way that doesn't matter is if so many people do it as to make the law irrelevant for a time (i.e. revolution or civil war). Unless it reached that scale, soldiers would be within their authority and obligation, legal and otherwise, to follow any orders to put down a rebellion against the United States.

[puckstr]

No, they are obligated to obey the lawful orders of the president and officers, thats the piont of the UCMJ being added in there. Every enlisted and officer serving in the military is under lawful obligation to not follow unlawful orders. Commiting a crime and saying you were following orders will still land you in jail, according to the uniform code of military justice.


Yeah that is what I said.....

Quote: Read a bit closer. Enlisted are obliged to OBEY the PREZ. But they are only to follow "Lawfull" orders (according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice).

But if it ALL goes down the crapper (to the point when the Gov is Broke) and the Men and Women are not getting paid for service (military and police) then it will be a free for all here.

[Nick_Ninja]

Yeah that is what I said.....

Quote: Read a bit closer. Enlisted are obliged to OBEY the PREZ. But they are only to follow "Lawfull" orders (according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice).

But if it ALL goes down the crapper (to the point when the Gov is Broke) and the Men and Women are not getting paid for service (military and police) then it will be a free for all here.

That sounds like anarchy to me. :twisted:

[Mental]

Yeah that is what I said.....

Quote: Read a bit closer. Enlisted are obliged to OBEY the PREZ. But they are only to follow "Lawfull" orders (according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice).


No its not the same thing you said. Having taken both of those oaths several times and taken classes on what they mean, you are not under obligation to follow any order of the president. No, they do not have to follow and unlawful order from an officer or the president. Your position is that they have to do anything the President says.

Furhermore, that is the piont of comissioned officers, is that they are comissioned by the President, hence they are acting by proxy as the represenative of the Commander in Cheif. So the lawful orders applies to both the Presidents orders and the Officers orders, thats why they are in the same sentence, separated by a comma. They are a dual subject of the sentence. If there were two seperate circumstances, there would be two sentences. Whats more, this is underscored by the fact both of these oaths have to administered by a Officer.

Finally, if there were seperate circumstances demanding unquestioning loyaty to the Commander in Cheif in addition to defending the Constitution, don't you think it would be including in the Officers oath as well? No.


In a time of war or civil unrest they have to follow orders or they could be shot by their own officers. While I love the military I don't think there are that many martars in the service. Do you think when cops bounce some kid off the trunk of the car they are thinking about protecting their rights and caring about the perp being a citizen?

Wrong again, there are numerous circumstances where troops have refused to obey unlawful orders. During Operation Just Cause a C130 gunship refused to fire on a postion becuase they belived there were Americans there. They were ordered to return to base and were arrested (not shot) and when it came out they were right, they were released and commended.

[Snowman]

These soldiers still have a conscience, at least we hope they haven’t been removed. So the questions becomes what is a lawful order.

The torture that went on in Getmo was a violation of the Geneva Convention. No matter what euphemism you want to use. Should those soldiers that followed the presidential orders to water board those men be arrested for war crimes?

[puckstr]

That sounds like anarchy to me. :twisted:


Then we will see the TRUE nature of humanity..errr. inhumanity

[pauliep]

I'll check that out


Have you ever considered a career in piracy? You'd make a fine Dread Pirate Roberts...

[Shea]

I'll check that out

Or you can just join up with me Paulie, I may need some good shooters when the time comes :)

[Devaclis]

First, take a big step back... and literally, FUCK YOUR OWN FACE! I don't know what kind of pan-pacific bullshit power play you're trying to pull here, but Asia Jack is my territory. So whatever you're thinking, you'd better think again! Otherwise I'm gonna have to head down there and I will rain down in a Godly fucking firestorm upon you! You're gonna have to call the fucking United Nations and get a fucking binding resolution to keep me from fucking destroying you. I'm talking about a scorched earth, motherfucker! I will massacre you! I WILL FUCK YOU UP!

[DavidofColorado]

First, take a big step back... and literally, FUCK YOUR OWN FACE! I don't know what kind of pan-pacific bullshit power play you're trying to pull here, but Asia Jack is my territory. So whatever you're thinking, you'd better think again! Otherwise I'm gonna have to head down there and I will rain down in a Godly fucking firestorm upon you! You're gonna have to call the fucking United Nations and get a fucking binding resolution to keep me from fucking destroying you. I'm talking about a scorched earth, motherfucker! I will massacre you! I WILL FUCK YOU UP!
Who are you talking to?

[Devaclis]

It is a movie quote, from Tropic Thunder :)

[puckstr]

I will just build a "Shitty Wall"
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/southpark/images/thumb/8/8f/Epi903img01.jpg/200px-Epi903img01.jpg
God Damn you Mongolians

[DavidofColorado]

It is a movie quote, from Tropic Thunder :)
Haven't seen it yet. But it doesn't sound like your usual 90 min gay joke movie that I am used to getting from Hollywood.

[puckstr]

http://fusedfilm.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/booty-sweat.jpg

[DavidofColorado]

Wrong again, there are numerous circumstances where troops have refused to obey unlawful orders. During Operation Just Cause a C130 gunship refused to fire on a postion becuase they belived there were Americans there. They were ordered to return to base and were arrested (not shot) and when it came out they were right, they were released and commended.
I hope I am wrong on this one. I am just one of those "...don't trade security for freedom..." people. I just don't want to run the risk of being right. But its not like we don't have Military bases here. Its just that they don't usually take on a police roll.

[Mental]

...Its just that they don't usually take on a police roll.

Its not a question of usually, its a question of not allowed to. One of the big problems with Katrina and the aftermath wasn't that the federal forces weren't ready to go, its that they aren't allowed to unless asked. But everyone blamed the federal goverment for not coming sooner, but the reality is they followed the law and weren't asked to come in. Now they have slated forces that specialize in diasaster recovery and adverstise to every state and federal agency out there to prevent this from happening again.


I hope I am wrong on this one. I am just one of those "...don't trade security for freedom..." people. I just don't want to run the risk of being right. But its not like we don't have Military bases here....

I'm the same way, but I am tired of this growing misconception that miltary peaple are ignorant and evil just waiting to take away your guns and freedom. I had to deal with aftermath of that kinda paraniod think even in the early 90's. Watch any movie from the 70's, most of the 80's and the bad guy is always a military general who wants to start war with the USSR or some kind non sense. they are portrayed as warmongers and sub-human. Now folks are projecting their paranioa against the goverment into its most visable arm, the military and the conspiracy theroists keep feeding it.

I have been told as an AWACS crewmember that I was responsible for 9/11. Really?!?, me and my average 23-year-old crewmembers in an ancient jet that entered service in the 70's took over modern airliners and crashed them with surgical precision? Seriously.

The paranioa about the civil response force is the same thing. "Oh, they are just waiting to decalre martial law!" On this very board someone theoriszed that Bush was going to do just that before, and then after the elections.

The goverment is too complicated and has too many avenues for this to happen. Thats what causes most of the problems, the over arching oversight the goverment has on itself. Not some riduculous Illuminatti trying to cull you with Television and take away your guns.

[Shea]

Its not a question of usually, its a question of not allowed to. One of the big problems with Katrina and the aftermath wasn't that the federal forces weren't ready to go, its that they aren't allowed to unless asked. But everyone blamed the federal goverment for not coming sooner, but the reality is they followed the law and weren't asked to come in. Now they have slated forces that specialize in diaster recoveryand adverstise to every state and federal agency out there to prevent this from happening again.

It was far easier just to blame the current administration for "falling down on the job" then to actually place the blame where it should have gone (namely the mayor of New Orleans and the governor of LA).

I have mixed feelings about having troops operating inside the US. Probably stems from my inherent distrust of a "too-powerful" central government and the firm belief that people should take care of themselves. At the same time I wouldn't mind seeing engineer units along the US/Mex border building a fence (rather then some no-bid contract going to KBR to do it). Time will tell

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7SbJZ_G-_C8