$177,000.00 Bank error.

[~Barn~]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28654819/

Can you imagine?

I don't think I would contact my bank either. That would be the hardest call in the world to make!

I'm thinking I probably would have just moved all of it to my Money Market account, and as the monthly interest deposits came in, transfered those over to my checking.

I mean seriously.... Fuck the bank if they can't get my deposit right. Quiting your job, moving, and buying a house was probably a little rash, though. :lol:

[McVaaahhh]

I'd be curious if they could actually be convicted of theft. Being stupid, yes, but theft, doubtful.

Is it theft if the cashier at a store gives you too much change?

[~Barn~]

Yeah, but you don't sign contracts that allow you to buy some cold cuts at Safeway. My guess is that there is "fine print" in most banking contracts that mandates the notification of the bank, in the event of a discovered transaction that's in error. :dunno:

[modette99]

Yeah the bank screws up and the people have to go to jail, that sounds a little messed up. I do not think I would quit my job for $177K that buys very little nowadays.

I had a problem one time where I inquired about refinancing my vehicle with my credit union as it was a lower rate vs Fords rate. I provided all the details but never signed the paperwork due to not liking the terms. They required me to carry insurance of $100 deductible and I called them and they said that it could not be waved. So I said okay I'll stay with Ford as the rate was not much higher, so no big deal.

A few months go by and I'm still mailing payments to Ford I get a check back from Ford. I'm like okay, I have no clue what this is about. I call Ford and they say the vehicle was paid off in full by guess who my credit union. So I call them, and they were very unhelpful, in fact I had a few words with the gal and got nowhere. So I called Ford back, told them I never authorized this...they were very friendly and told me they would look into the matter. A few days go by and I get a call from the Credit Union President wanting to know what happened. I explained it and he said he would look into the matter. A few more days go by and he calls me back and said he sees I never signed the paperwork and this had never happened and when someone inquires about a loan they have always gone through with it. He told me the Vice President of Ford financial services will be calling me. He did and the credit union paid Ford to take the loan back.

I was young at the time (22) and just wanted it straightened out.

However if this happened to me today, I would pretty much tell the credit union to kiss my butt and thanks for the Free car. I mean, its not like I did not spend time dealing with this and sitting on the phone to get answers. Reflecting back I should of been compensated for my time.

So yes banks do make mistakes and I do not feel these people stole. The bank should suck it up and instead learn from the $177K mistake. Instead of trying to blame them for theft, which they never asked for the money in the first place. If someone wants to deposit $177K into my account, thank you...but I will not ask where it came from.

[salsashark]

I'd be curious if they could actually be convicted of theft. Being stupid, yes, but theft, doubtful.

Is it theft if the cashier at a store gives you too much change?

Yes, they can be convicted of theft. They knew it wasn't theirs and they took it and ran.

I remember reading about this a couple of years ago so the details are fuzzy but it has to do with unlawfully benefiting from the mistake. Yes it sucks... if someone made this mistake in my account I would want to keep the money as well. But in the end, it's not their money and they have no right to it.

[modette99]

Yeah, but you don't sign contracts that allow you to buy some cold cuts at Safeway. My guess is that there is "fine print" in most banking contracts that mandates the notification of the bank, in the event of a discovered transaction that's in error. :dunno:

You know I do not recall a sheet of paper being present when we opened our account. My first bank account my father just handed them $3K for me, and I then transferred over my credit union money and that was it. They verbally took my name, address, and SSN and I showed my drivers license.

Next time I'm at my bank, I'll ask to see if there is policy...and if it is in writing and if I can get a copy.

Some might argue that the error depends on the individual and their interpretation of whether it was an "error".

[Spiderman]

Theft?!? :wtf: They withdrew it from their OWN bank account!

:idea: Maybe they thought it was an anonymous deposit from a rich relative? ;)

:lol:

[modette99]

Found these stories:
http://www.englishrussia.com/?p=249

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/sav/Nov06_bank_errora1.asp

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/BetterBanking/BankErrorInYourFavorYourProblem.aspx

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3084

So when something like this happens, why should the bank not be held on theft charges, like they want on individuals. This is the reverse of the bank paying out.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24858965-13762,00.html

[dirkterrell]

Yeah the bank screws up and the people have to go to jail, that sounds a little messed up.

They took a large sum of money that they knew didn't belong to them. Jail sounds right to me.

Dirk

[puckstr]

Say you thought it was a stimulus package or the Federal bank bailout package

[modette99]

I just do not see a Jury of working men and women actually convicting them. The only Jail they will end up with is until they go to trial.

Like it was said, I just say I was praying for some money and next thing I knew it was in my account.

Jail is for people that are a danger to society, these people are not as far as we know within that article. So instead of letting them keep $177K you rather spend that per year or more keeping them behind bars...yeah they are such a danger.

[modette99]

Say you thought it was a stimulus package or the Federal bank bailout package

Nah, I heard that comes with a free Cadillac with 24" rims.

[McVaaahhh]

Yes, they can be convicted of theft. They knew it wasn't theirs and they took it and ran.

I remember reading about this a couple of years ago so the details are fuzzy but it has to do with unlawfully benefiting from the mistake. Yes it sucks... if someone made this mistake in my account I would want to keep the money as well. But in the end, it's not their money and they have no right to it.


So if I find $1000 on the street and take it and run, I could be charged with a felony? I'm not sure...

[hcr25]

"Jail is for people that are a danger to society"

So if someone hacked into your bank account and drained it, they shouldnt do any jail time because they are not a threat to society?

[salsashark]

So if I find $1000 on the street and take it and run, I could be charged with a felony? I'm not sure...

check out the links that Modette provided. It explains the difference between finding money on the street... of which, there is no expectation of ownership because there is no obvious owner, and money deposited into accounts by mistake. You know that it doesn't belong to you and so does the bank. There is an expectation of knowledge of ownership.

[hcr25]

So if I find $1000 on the street and take it and run, I could be charged with a felony? I'm not sure...

Lol, finding money on the street and withdrawing money that you know is not yours are not really the same.

I am to slow!

[McVaaahhh]

You're probably right Salsa, just kind of a grey area.

I think it'd be hard to actually convict them and throw them in jail, which IMHO would be a bit overkill. However, it'd be perfectly acceptable to make them pay the money back.

[salsashark]

In one of the cases modette linked to, they made the person repay the money plus a 500 dollar fine.

I know it would be tough to not run with it... but it wasn't theirs and they knew it. I guess taking it's a moral issue... getting it back is a legal one.

[McVaaahhh]

"Jail is for people that are a danger to society"

So if someone hacking into your bank account and drained, they shouldnt do any jail time because they are not a threat to society?


Hacking into an account and taking money is different than waking up one day and it's there.


All I'm saying is the people didn't set out to steal money so I don't really think they are criminals. They probably just thought they couldn't get in trouble and tough shit for the bank. :dunno:

[Foolds]

Our Business bank made a 990k error once giving us a million dollars, but we called and they promptly fixed that problem

[dirkterrell]

Jail is for people that are a danger to society, these people are not as far as we know within that article. So instead of letting them keep $177K you rather spend that per year or more keeping them behind bars...yeah they are such a danger.

So, if you made the mistake of leaving your key in the bike in the parking lot and someone walked up and rode off on it, that would be ok? The person who happened to see the key probably wouldn't have been out to steal a bike but, hey, it was sitting there and it was the owner that screwed up, right?

Dirk

[McVaaahhh]

So, if you made the mistake of leaving your key in the bike in the parking lot and someone walked up and rode off on it, that would be ok? The person who happened to see the key probably wouldn't have been out to steal a bike but, hey, it was sitting there and it was the owner that screwed up, right?

Dirk


To complete the analogy Dirk, don't you mean if you opened someones garage and parked your bike in there with the key in it and the signed title in the trunk, closed the garage and walked away?

[dirkterrell]

To complete the analogy Dirk, don't you mean if you opened someones garage and parked your bike in there with the key in it and the signed title in the trunk, closed the garage and walked away?

No, that wouldn't be an honest mistake. The bank didn't say "here, you won some money" and later try to take it back. They made a mistake that put money in someone's account. When the mistake was discovered, the ethical thing to do was to bring it to the bank's attention. I'm amazed that people are having trouble seeing that.

Dirk

[~Barn~]

I take it back. I would take the $$ to Vegas and play craps.

[McVaaahhh]

Oh, not debating ethics at all Dirk. Of course the moral and ethical thing to do is to return the money. The question, in my mind, is did they actually commit a crime? It appears that they did, but I don't necessarily agree that they are criminals and should do prison time.

And I do think my analogy is a bit closer. :D

[TFOGGuys]

The sad part is, when you bring it to the bank's attention, they rarely even thank you for it. Not so much as a free toaster. But when they jacked up one of my deposits (shorted it about 3k), it was like pulling teeth on a rabid wolverine to get them to credit the overdraft fees and write letters to the recipients of the bad checks stating that it was indeed their error. Needless to say, I no longer deal with that particular bank.

[t_jolt]

Here is the thing, Morally, yes they should have said something.
But there is a time frame that the bank can do this in. I know if you cash a "make believe" check and they put the funds into your account. ( saying that it cleared after the ten day waiting period) my bank has 3 days to take it back after they say its cleared. If they do not take it back in that time frame, then they dont get to take it back.

[modette99]

To complete the analogy Dirk, don't you mean if you opened someones garage and parked your bike in there with the key in it and the signed title in the trunk, closed the garage and walked away?

Yep his analogy is so flawed.

Dirk, leaving a key in the bike and parked and someone taking it is stealing. Having someone dump money into MY ACCOUNT on their own whether bank error or not is not stealing on my part. I did not ask for the money to be put into my account, and in fact should be able to charge a fee for holding the money in my account.

McVaaahhh is right on with his analogy.

Another one would be, someone tosses a brief case into your open front door and then comes back later and claims you stole it. No, you tossed it in my front door, so you then gave me the money whether or not you might of made a mistake on which house should not really legally bother me. Your mistake, so learn from it.

[#1Townie]

fuck banks..

[dirkterrell]

Yep his analogy is so flawed.

Dirk, leaving a key in the bike and parked and someone taking it is stealing. Having someone dump money into MY ACCOUNT on their own whether bank error or not is not stealing on my part. I did not ask for the money to be put into my account, and in fact should be able to charge a fee for holding the money in my account.


No, Brian's analogy is flawed because he posited that someone PURPOSELY left the bike for you to take (i.e. the signed title). My analogy is spot on because your ability to ride off on the bike (take the money) exists because someone made a mistake and left the key in it (deposited money in the wrong amount). Nowhere in the banking mistake did the bank tell the people it was their money.

So, if you made a mistake and made a deposit with the wrong account number, you'd buy the argument that the other account owner could keep the money?

Dirk

[Dietrich_R1]

My BANK held CASH for about 25 days & then a check of 16K was bounced for insuficient funds to buy a house!!! I still had the receipts when I walked over the money from one bank to another across the street.

One stressful night of calling my bank Customer Service was hell. My down payment could be kept by the homeowner legally & I couldn't get it through the banks heads of what had happened.

When I finally gave up, I told the C.S. Rep that Bank One would soon be buying me my new house if I lost the deal due to their Screw-Up (They had no answer to WHY this had happened).

I soon got a phone call back, my ass kissed & close to $1K in cash & Best Buy gift cards issued to me. DAMIT... I was able to purchase the home!!!

[Matty]

No, that wouldn't be an honest mistake. The bank didn't say "here, you won some money" and later try to take it back. They made a mistake that put money in someone's account. When the mistake was discovered, the ethical thing to do was to bring it to the bank's attention. I'm amazed that people are having trouble seeing that.

Dirk
i'm with ya Dirk...

[McVaaahhh]

We could argue semantics until the wee hours of the morning. However, my point is this:

If you woke up tomorrow morning and there was a mint-condition RC30 sitting in your garage with the key in the ignition and a signed title in the trunk. No note that says anything, it's just parked there. Do you take that bike for a spin? Do you sign the title and go to the DMV and claim it as yours? Ethically and morally you should probably try and track down the owner of the bike, but legally did you do anything wrong?

Slightly different than walking down the street tomorrow and seeing a GSXR parked at the curb that somebody left the key in.


That's my analogy to an erroneous deposit into your account. :D

[dirkterrell]

We could argue semantics until the wee hours of the morning. However, my point is this:


:)



If you woke up tomorrow morning and there was a mint-condition RC30 sitting in your garage with the key in the ignition and a signed title in the trunk. No note that says anything, it's just parked there. Do you take that bike for a spin? Do you sign the title and go to the DMV and claim it as yours? Ethically and morally you should probably try and track down the owner of the bike, but legally did you do anything wrong?


But the title thing is where the analogy breaks down. The bank didn't tell these people that the money was their's (title signed over in your analogy). The more correct analogy is that I found the RC30 sitting in my driveway with the key in it. No signed title. If I tried to claim it as mine, it would be theft.

I'll leave it at that.

Dirk

[Matty]

Brian... i love ya man, but i don't think you're going to win this one, lol.

[modette99]

So, if you made a mistake and made a deposit with the wrong account number, you'd buy the argument that the other account owner could keep the money?

Dirk

The sure act of putting money into MY ACCOUNT means they thought I should have it. I have no control over WHO puts money into my account. Could of been Obama, my neighbor, or money owed and deposited from the IRS. It is my ACCOUNT, like this is my house, don't walk in and give me a gift and then come back to take it back.

[McVaaahhh]

But the title thing is where the analogy breaks down. The bank didn't tell these people that the money was their's (title signed over in your analogy). The more correct analogy is that I found the RC30 sitting in my driveway with the key in it. No signed title. If I tried to claim it as mine, it would be theft.

I'll leave it at that.

Dirk


I think the garage is a closer analogy. It's your garage and invisible to the rest of the world (just like the contents of your account). The only other person that knows the bike is in there is the guy who left it there (the bank).

Money doesn't have a title or bill of sale so that's why I included a signed title (just the seller portion).




Matty, just cause Dirk's a rocket scientist doesn't mean he's always right. :lol:

[dirkterrell]

The sure act of putting money into MY ACCOUNT means they thought I should have it. I have no control over WHO puts money into my account. Could of been Obama, my neighbor, or money owed and deposited from the IRS. It is my ACCOUNT, like this is my house, don't walk in and give me a gift and then come back to take it back.

You didn't answer my question. If you put the wrong account number on a deposit slip and dumped $3K into someone else's account by mistake, would you consider it a gift to that person and let it slide?

Dirk

[modette99]

Yep, your hung up on his title part. Okay bike does not have the title...legally you then still have the right to charge storage fees on a typical garage I would charge ($150 a month). As the home owner there does not legally have to set out to find the owner. Personally like the bank case I would leave the bike in the garage, take photos and start recording storage fees, late fees, and lock out fees and after say 6 months I'd probably part the thing out...or if you want to play it by the law like a storage facility then I would post it in the paper and hold an auction (how it works in Flint, MI)...or like I have done call someone and they pay you and they haul it away no questions asked...LOL

Title or no title you do not have the right to store something in someones garage without their consent.

You do not have the right to put money into someones account without their consent, unless your giving them the money. My account, like my garage, go get your own. Whether bank error or not, why should I have to do the leg work on who put money into my account. In this case it is a little harder as they obviously could see a few digits were added, but in other cases of bank error it is not so simple.

[salsashark]

Argue semantics all you want.

Going back to the original story, these people took something that did not belong to them and now they're paying the piper.

Theft is theft... it's as simple as that. How is this so hard to understand?!





OK, now back to our regularly scheduled program.

[modette99]

You didn't answer my question. If you put the wrong account number on a deposit slip and dumped $3K into someone else's account by mistake, would you consider it a gift to that person and let it slide?

Dirk

Yes I would, you are the one writing the account number, why should you then be able to say nope that was not who I meant to give the money too. Morally wrong on the person to keep the money but legally they should be able too.

Otherwise, what if I owe you $3K and deposit that into your account like we agree on. I use cash, thus no way to cancel the check. Then I decide for whatever reason after 2 months to just claim to the bank "oh that is not the account I meant" and then they withdraw it from your account and make you bounce all your checks.

You wrote the number down, so if you can not handle a simple task like that then maybe you and your money should part ways. One thing I double and triple check is the account number I write down on a deposit slip.

[modette99]

Argue semantics all you want.

Going back to the original story, these people took something that did not belong to them and now they're paying the piper.

Theft is theft... it's as simple as that. How is this so hard to understand?!
OK, now back to our regularly scheduled program.

Chances are they will not go to Prison over this, If they did not spend the money (just says they were about to buy a house). No Jury will convict on this, and if the people have clean records it is a waste of tax money to try them and send them to jail.

I know if it was me and a larger amount like some stories I posted, say around $5 million I would just transfer that money to 20 different accounts around the world and move to some 3rd word nation (west Africa is nice) and sit back and enjoy life on the beach. Might not be able to return to the US, but I could live with that. The problem with these people, they think $177K is a lot of money so they up and move, but within the US still...LOL I hope most here would not think $177K is life altering, yes it would help but not really change your way of living.

[dirkterrell]

Yes I would, you are the one writing the account number, why should you then be able to say nope that was not who I meant to give the money too. Morally wrong on the person to keep the money but legally they should be able too.


I didn't say you were giving money to someone. You are going to deposit a $3K check in your account but you mistakenly write the wrong account number on the deposit slip. You seriously would say "I fucked up, the money is yours."? I call bullshit. :)



Otherwise, what if I owe you $3K and deposit that into your account like we agree on. I use cash, thus no way to cancel the check. Then I decide for whatever reason after 2 months to just claim to the bank "oh that is not the account I meant" and then they withdraw it from your account and make you bounce all your checks.


This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand. The bank (or anyone else) didn't owe these people anything. As I said earlier, if the bank had told them that the money was their's and then took it back, they would be justified in keeping it.



You wrote the number down, so if you can not handle a simple task like that then maybe you and your money should part ways. One thing I double and triple check is the account number I write down on a deposit slip.

Glad to hear that you don't make mistakes. :) This thread, unlike many, has been very educational for me.

Dirk

[DARK ANGEL]

i would have made the money "dissapear" and then dissapear myself...HAHAHAHAHA taken the money out, close the account and run, aint my problem and from what i understand banks dont make mistakes.

[thaitanic]

MLB mike piazza paycheck http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/copy-mike-piazza-s-may-25th-2001-take-home-paycheck-1478377/

[rforsythe]

What the fuck?

[modette99]

So what did that have to do with the Original topic of this thread? How is that paycheck a bank error? I should of skipped to this page of the thread, I reread some of the postings to refresh myself....fuck

In any case I still would move to some 3rd world nation after the bank messes up and deposits $5 million into my account.

Oh and one question asked to me that the poster failed to read in my response....its not my fucking problem with the bank screws up. If you the depositor are too fucking dumb to write the correct number on the deposit slip you and your money need to part ways. If the bank teller messed up and deposited the money in error then the bank should be at fault and loose the money as they are obviously too fucking dumb...and if it was a person and not a machine that made the mistake fire that person.

[rforsythe]

My WTF was directed at this off topic response to a thread over a year old.

But, good job at keeping it real. :lol:

[modette99]

My WTF was directed at this off topic response to a thread over a year old.

But, good job at keeping it real. :lol:

Oh I know, my response was to him too (thaitanic) and trying to get it back on track and at least trying to make my post somewhat valid...LOL

I could careless if a bank looses out of some money...LOL I feel a little bad for a person that made the mistake...but like I said I charge storage fees and it be upt o that person to PROVE in court they messed up....you are not allowed to be an Indian giver. If it was a large sum see you, I'm out of here...LOL

[t_jolt]

Im surprised no one has said this yet. By LAW, if the bank makes a deposit out of error, the bank has 72 hours to notify the account owner(s) of the mistake and take it back. If its been longer then 72 hours then its the account owner(s) money. Now unless you signed an agreement with the bank stating errors in your favor are never yours.

[t_jolt]

haha, i didnt even get to page 3 before i responded. My response is almost the exact same as it was then haha

[The Black Knight]

What the fuck?
that was going to be my response. I hate zombie threads.

[60pan]

Zombies:horse:

just logon to the IRS website & send them the $$$$....its theirs anyway & themall can figure it out whilst I go ride :cheers: