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View Full Version : T's Noob Question of the week - Riding the Turns!



64BonnieLass
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 07:15 PM
I have a question regarding faith in the turns in the canyons.

How do you guys do spirited runs, and take those turns so fast not knowing what is on the other side?

I can hold a line (ish - not so much on a good ADHD day), and I work on it every time I'm out. But when I am in a blind turn in the canyons, I just can't help but wonder if there is a deer, a car stalled, an accident causing the oh shit factor as I see myself going over the rear of the car. My mind goes there every single time. Which distracts me from my riding and focusing on skill.

Even at a slow pace I'm usually still around 20MPH over the speed limit in those turns. And most of you guys are WAY ahead of me.

I find myself being more comfortable in my abilities on the sweepers because I don't have to worry my lil head about what if's. Therefore I'm more confident in those turns and ride a wee bit better and stonger and faster then on the blind turns.

How do I get over it? Or should I? How do you guys do it? What is the faith in those blind turns at speed?

salsashark
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 07:19 PM
Use the force!

Nick_Ninja
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 07:22 PM
Before riding the turns at a brisk pace I practice my panic stops ---- in the turns.

You have to watch who and what is behind you though :D

daemon
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 07:24 PM
quite truthfully....
alway's ride with some "reserve" in mind.
it has been said many times that you should not ride above your abilities.
this is true in many way's.

expect the unexpected.

for now you should consider your ability to react and react boldly.
there has been many ocassions where i had to grab the big binder to slow my pace...

take all the lesson's you can from seasoned riders and "never"...."never" ride above your own comfort level.

is this understood??

DevilsTonic
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 07:24 PM
I think that you have to have a few screws loose for that Terri. I still worry about that shit in the twisties too. The only place I feel more at home in the turns is at the track. Even then, I have this self preservation mechanism that says SLOW the F down, neither you, nor your son can afford to have you dead today. The more I get to know my machine (and yes I'm still getting to know it after three years) the faster I can go, it's all about knowing the machine's limits and being comfortable with those limits and your ability to not push it past the limits.

That doesn't necessarily mean that I don't take the twisties faster than I should, but I'm still a lot more reserved than most. This year I'll be hangin at the back of the pack, cuz if I get any more tickets I'm gonna end up like Barn ;).

daemon
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 07:25 PM
Before riding the turns at a brisk pace I practice my panic stops ---- in the turns.

You have to watch who and what is behind you though :D
true dat!!!!

tailgating tards!!!

64BonnieLass
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 07:29 PM
I get that. (I practiced that one day in front of a most forgiving and kind crew) But how do you panic stop around a turn at 60 MPH and not hit a) the target or b) a very hard wall/ - the non-target?

No matter how good you are, you're gonna get screwed going around that turn with speed regardless of skill. No? Am I wrong here?

mtnairlover
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 07:29 PM
Focus.

I dunno...I thought everyone does what I do...meh.

So, going on the notion that everyone is different when they ride in the canyons, this is what I do:

First...it takes time to get comfortable in the canyons. Before I started riding in the canyons, I was always the one driving in the canyons...day, or night. My ex didn't like to drive. I've been doing it since I could drive at 16. Back then, I had a Beetle. I loved driving in the canyons and snickered at the out-of-staters who had no clue how to drive. I would down shift and cruise in a group, until an opening and a passing lane would come up. Then I'd put as much distance between me and that group as I could...it's just fun for me.

As far as being on two wheels is concerned...well, what I trained myself to do from the time I was brand new to riding, was to find the furthest visible point in the turn and keep my focus on that point as it continued to change in the turn. Doing that gives me a little more confidence in the idea that if (heaven forbid) something would happen to be in that turn, then I'd have some sort of time to find a way to avoid a major mishap.

As I've grown more comfortable in the turns, I've been able to slowly add a little more speed.

So, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.:)

64BonnieLass
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 07:44 PM
quite truthfully....
alway's ride with some "reserve" in mind.
it has been said many times that you should not ride above your abilities.
this is true in many way's.

expect the unexpected.

for now you should consider your ability to react and react boldly.
there has been many ocassions where i had to grab the big binder to slow my pace...

take all the lesson's you can from seasoned riders and "never"...."never" ride above your own comfort level.

is this understood??

Nice Mayo, I loved this comment. Damn skippy it's UNDERSTOOD. I never ride over my ability. And when I do, some lil angel on my should puts me back in "check" in short order.

There have only been maybe 3 people in the whole CSC who have EVER told me I was too slow. Like I freeking don't know that. But I really don't care to EVER ride with those people EVER again. Riding with good friends simply feels better to me.

My problem is that I DO expect the unexpected. My tire slides in 7, I puckered and came way down, when I really could have had way more fun. But I didn't know the twists of that road, and my tires coupled with mag chloride were worrying me. I don't know how you guys do it.

Deer Creek scares the ever living shit out of me. I just can't get up to speed on that road. Why? Cause of the freeking DEER! :shocked: Ya know DEER CREEK...DEER!

Matrix
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 07:48 PM
I will add to this that the pavement conditions of a canyon are also unpredictiable. Is their shade or sun? Is their gravel or oil? All of which is uncertain at the time of entry into a tight corner.
Given this a rider should use extreme caution and I know for myself this means somewhere in the realm of 50-70% of ability. Anything more then that for me belongs on the track where the consistency of the turns allowed me to push the envelope.

Tipys
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 07:50 PM
I am slower on the street for some reason.


On the track going into turn 1 at pmi goes oh shit way to fast slow down then crap going to slow now. PPIR into 1 and throw 1 oh shit oh shit Im gonna die. Damn that was fun.

Then when I got comfrontable I crashed in 3 at pmi. I was like hell ya I got my knee down damn now peg shit that just happen. Damn it did I better get up.


I know my whole post is useless

Snowman
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 07:53 PM
The term “Fast” or “Slow” is relative to the person who is riding only. No one can tell you that you are slow, because their reference of speed is not yours.

When I was racing karts I never worried if I was slow or fast. I went at a speed that kept me smooth through the corners. Speed came as a consequence of that.

Running the canyons are the same way. Go as slow as you need to be smooth through the corners. If there is something in the road like a rock, you can react to it allot easier if you are not already on the edge.

It’s not about how fast its about how smooth.

mtnairlover
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 07:55 PM
somewhere in the realm of 50-70% of ability. Anything more then that for me belongs on the track where the consistency of the turns allowed me to push the envelope.

This is exactly what I've heard. I think it's a very good rule of thumb to use. I know I tend to be wayyyy overly cautious riding up in the hills in the winter time. I freak out when I see the white powder of left over mag chloride and I am always wary of canyon roads that tend to get mostly shade in the winter.

Summer time is a bit different for me and as my riding buddies will attest too, I've got more balls than I should have when I ride...but, I am no where close to other riders out there...those whom I've ridden with in the past and have helped me to improve my riding technique both on the track and in the mountains.

UglyDogRacing
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 07:58 PM
If you're riding 20mph over or 60mph in a canyon turn(most I see are 35mph limit), you are riding at least 100% or more of your ability. You need to back that down to 75% or you will not be prepared for the unexpected. Whenever you ride in the canyons you need to anticipate a hazard in every turn.

Matrix
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 08:13 PM
This is exactly what I've heard. I think it's a very good rule of thumb to use. I know I tend to be wayyyy overly cautious riding up in the hills in the winter time. I freak out when I see the white powder of left over mag chloride and I am always wary of canyon roads that tend to get mostly shade in the winter.

Summer time is a bit different for me and as my riding buddies will attest too, I've got more balls than I should have when I ride...but, I am no where close to other riders out there...those whom I've ridden with in the past and have helped me to improve my riding technique both on the track and in the mountains.

I missed one important part. Even if you’re riding at 50-70% you NEED TO ACT as if you are riding at 100%.
Case in point this fall I was being lazy into a corner at what I thought was about 50% ability. Then the ass stepped out (which has happened dozens of times at the track) and instead of holding my line and throttle position I panicked and managed to high side in what would have normally been a casual corner. Over confidence in this case was detrimental to my well being. haha :banghead:

mtnairlover
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 08:18 PM
Yeah...I guess I've never gotten to the point of having my tail end step out on me in a corner...but, I have felt that on the straight away....different. In the corners, I always tell myself to be prepared before going in and that's on each and every corner, but at that last point of no return...that point right before you hit full commitment, that's when everything just flows smoothly for me and I let everything else fall away (accept my awareness).

Oh and over-confidence? Yeah...been there, but all it takes is a self-check to put that away and just enjoy the ride.

SaShWhO
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 08:37 PM
the Canyons are like boxes of Chocolate......................
....................you never know what you're gonna get.

dirkterrell
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 08:43 PM
It’s not about how fast its about how smooth.

So true. In a race last year at Pueblo on the first lap I was behind a guy who was a little slower than me and Diego was in front of him. Diego was pulling away and I'm fighting to get around this other guy. I finally got by him on the brakes going into 9 and started chasing Diego. The harder I tried, the farther ahead he got. I was blowing turns left and right. Finally I said to myself "Slow down and do it right." After that I began catching up.

As for riding fast in the canyons, you have to give yourself a lot of room to adjust for the unknowns. I ride pretty conservatively on the streets. Too many unknowns to go hauling ass through blind corners.

Dirk

mtnairlover
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 08:51 PM
Note:

A quick confession...

Even though I may have just said my riding buddies tell me I'm fearless in the canyons, like Snowman just said...speed is all relative. I am just more comfortable in the canyons than my pals and they're ok with letting me know it...sides, they pass me over and over again at the track.

It's all relative.:)

asp_125
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 08:54 PM
A few of us who shall remain nameless (but who have posted in this thread :D ) have been up and down 7 so many times we know the corners in our sleep. On other roads I will dial it back even more since I am not familiar with the corners. Nevertheless, I keep that "what if" thought in the back of my mind; it's the angel on your shoulder balancing the devil in your right hand. Never ride faster than you can brake, never ride with the thought of keeping up or trying not to be the turtle in front.

The 3 keys are: smoothness, precision, and control. Smooth enough to not need to scrub off speed suddenly or throw the bike around more than you need to; overreacting upsets the balance of the bike. Precise enough to hit all of your marks all of the time, and always remain in control. If you rush a corner you will give up one or more of the three items. Most riders don't automatically become fast, they creep up to it.

As for confidence? Develop a trust in your abilities, in your tires, and a healthy respect of the road conditions. Know when you can hang it out a bit, versus when to back it down.

64BonnieLass
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 08:59 PM
K! Great feedback. But how do you guys go on BLIND FAITH? A blind turn for me, IS blind faith.

Is an "ignorance is bliss" kind of mentality that you have?

Is it faith in your ego that keeps you going in your mind at that kind of speed? Do you just assume it's "all clear" and haul ass?

How do you hit those blind turns never knowing if your 75% or 100% is enough or too much to be safe? Or even better, within your ability - that you are 100% confident that you can handle it?

Captain Obvious
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:00 PM
I have a question regarding faith in the turns in the canyons.

How do you guys do spirited runs, and take those turns so fast not knowing what is on the other side?


I think a lot of people ride well beyond safe limits on the street. Either they fool themselves about the actual safety margin, they over estimate thier abilities, etc, etc.

I admit fully that I have ridden beyond safe limits on the street.

We all view risk the differently and a many (esp guys) have a way of marginalizing it. I was slack jawed as I watched guys rail past cars over double yellows into blind turns. Asked about at the next stop and was given a bs excuse about being in control, etc, etc.

Captain Obvious
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:03 PM
A few of us who shall remain nameless (but who have posted in this thread :D ) have been up and down 7 so many times we know the corners in our sleep.


But have no clue about the car making an illegal u-turn, merging, or just pulling out. Example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOWefaKXLSo)

mtnairlover
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:08 PM
K! Great feedback. But how do you guys go on BLIND FAITH? A blind turn for me, IS blind faith.

Is an "ignorance is bliss" kind of mentality that you have?

Is it faith in your ego that keeps you going in your mind at that kind of speed? Do you just assume it's "all clear" and haul ass?

How do you hit those blind turns never knowing if your 75% or 100% is enough or too much to be safe? Or even better, within your ability - that you are 100% confident that you can handle it?

Wow...now this is hard to answer. I don't know that I have an answer. Some people have told me I'm overly confident...too stuck on the idea of speed to realize the risk. My honest answer to that comment is that in their mind's eye, yes...and that's based on their experiences...not mine. My experiences are mine and I deal with things differently than others. As is true with everyone posting here and on this board. Everyone deals with things differently. But again, that's based on their personal experiences.

So, to say it's "blind faith" maybe it's true. Is it over confidence? If that's the way you want to define it. Is it stupid? I guess maybe that would be true if a person kept crashing in the turns...oh wait...no comments from those who've seen me do that. My crashes are not because of the turn...anyway back on topic...blind faith? Yeah, I guess that's what I'd call it...but, I use it based on all my experiences, which I mentioned in my first post here. I tend to get to know things and places and roads as intimately as a person can...that's not bragging, that's just how I deal with things and because I deal with things that way, I tend to feel comfortable in certain situations where others might not.

asp_125
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:11 PM
But have no clue about the car making an illegal u-turn, merging, or just pulling out. Example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOWefaKXLSo)

Thus the remark about "what if"

Snowman
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:16 PM
K! Great feedback. But how do you guys go on BLIND FAITH? A blind turn for me, IS blind faith.

Is an "ignorance is bliss" kind of mentality that you have?

Is it faith in your ego that keeps you going in your mind at that kind of speed? Do you just assume it's "all clear" and haul ass?

How do you hit those blind turns never knowing if your 75% or 100% is enough or too much to be safe? Or even better, within your ability - that you are 100% confident that you can handle it?
Well this is where philosophy meets the road.

How can you be sure that there isn’t a boulder in the road around the next corner?
Short answer is that you can’t.

Whether it’s your fault, their fault or no body’s fault you have to accept that accidents can and will happen to you and anyone who rides. This means that you will never be 100% sure of anything at anytime. You can’t see around that corner, no one can.

So the question becomes how do you prepare yourself for the eventuality that as some point you will go down? It’s the reason we wear gear. I mean if we knew we were not going to go down that day why would any of us wear it? Yet, we all try our best to cover against road rash, impacts and anything else we can cover.

It comes down to this. The one question we all have to ask ourselves when we start riding is that there will always be a possibility that you can get seriously hurt of even die riding a motorcycle. You can say to yourself this will never happen to me and step away from the bike or accept that the possibility exists and get on one.

asp_125
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:21 PM
I think a lot of people ride well beyond safe limits on the street. Either they fool themselves about the actual safety margin, they over estimate thier abilities, etc, etc.
...

A study one time said probably 80% of drivers overestimate their skill. Hopefully us riders are more realistic but I would not be surprised if it's higher. Truthfully, how many of you regularly go back to the parking lot and do the box, or practice panic stops? I know I don't and should.

So given the fact that most of us are probably egotistic and think we're better riders, in real life, backing it off to 7/10ths is probably a good idea to buy us that safety margin we'll no doubt need.

asp_125
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:23 PM
Great discussion btw. I think all newbies should read this.

64BonnieLass
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:26 PM
Ooooooo, good comment Randall. And I am the personality that I would rather slide into the grave sideways, however, I believe in calculated risks at the same time. Risk is freeking fun. Calculated risk is harder but still pretty fun. I'm about having fun yet still mitigating death.

I realize there are some asshats who ride sideways because they either don't care or simply aren't old enough to educate themselves.

But for those of you that are seasoned and stellar riders...I still don't have an answer about running those turns at those kind of speeds on blind faith.

Snowman
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:32 PM
And that is the next question a rider must ask. How much risk am I willing to take. Some here are fine pushing 90% into that corner because they have been around it a hundred times, while other take it at 60% because it’s a new road to them.

It’s personal choice. What do you as a rider, on this day, with this machine, wearing this gear, feel about the next corner?

UglyDogRacing
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:34 PM
But for those of you that are seasoned and stellar riders...I still don't have an answer about running those turns at those kind of speeds on blind faith.


why do you need an answer

jimwallace
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:38 PM
i love the rule of 70 percent, although when you get going sometimes the pure joy of it will get me above that. what i do always try to do is ride tire lines cause this gives me 2 things, 1 is better traction, the sand ect gets kicked away by the car tires so less chance of slip and also better area grip for braking. secondly by sticking to the two tire lines it puts you to one side and i try to always be ready for an emergency pass if a car or something is stopped in the middle of the road (stalled, saw some deer, taking pictures) and i am unable to make an emergency stop i can whip to the shoulder or the center line (my preference due to the fact that if something is up people tend to stand on the shoulder as opposed to the center line and i DONT WANT TO RUN SOMEONE OVER. these are just things i hope to do if the situation ever came to pass, which i always hope doesnt, and try to avoid. but in all honesty accidents do happen regardless of whether or not you are above speed. all you can do is think and practice in youre mind some of the scenarios and manuevers used to avoid accidents. Mental prep is one of the greatest tools we have.

asp_125
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:42 PM
Imagine a non-rider or someone just starting out. They look at us countersteering into corners, or executing the "box" and think there's no possible way that can be done. Yet they see us do it. But to them, it seems like such a far removed concept. We tell them it can be done, have faith in the technique and trust the bike. So while to us it's part of our skillset, to them, they have to have faith in that it is possible.

Same here. Experience, ability, and trust. Faith, probably to a degree .. blind? Blind implies ignorance or arrogance. Most of the riders here with some seat time would probably agree, the ones that use blind faith probably don't last very long in the saddle.

64BonnieLass
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:43 PM
why do you need an answer

I Think, Therefore I Am. That's why.

Nick_Ninja
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:44 PM
I ride the corners by the seat of my pants ---------- sometimes ------------- and 35 years riding experience on Colorado roads other times.

asp_125
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:45 PM
LOL in the beginning when I was an undisciplined n00b, I probably used blind faith (if you call it that) on occasion: "oh God.. oh God.. damn that was close!" :D

Snowman
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:46 PM
I Think, Therefore I Am. That's why.
You think therefore you survive.

64BonnieLass
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:47 PM
i love the rule of 70 percent, although when you get going sometimes the pure joy of it will get me above that. what i do always try to do is ride tire lines cause this gives me 2 things, 1 is better traction, the sand ect gets kicked away by the car tires so less chance of slip and also better area grip for braking. secondly by sticking to the two tire lines it puts you to one side and i try to always be ready for an emergency pass if a car or something is stopped in the middle of the road (stalled, saw some deer, taking pictures) and i am unable to make an emergency stop i can whip to the shoulder or the center line (my preference due to the fact that if something is up people tend to stand on the shoulder as opposed to the center line and i DONT WANT TO RUN SOMEONE OVER. these are just things i hope to do if the situation ever came to pass which i always hope doesnt and try to avoid. but in all honesty accidents do happen regardless of whether or not you are above speed. all you can do is think and practice in youre mind some of the scenarios and manuevers used to avoid accidents. Mental prep is one of the greatest tools we have.

OMG, I can't even read that. Do you southies not understand Paragraphs and shit. Ya know...to help the reader, READ. Good god almighty. Use spaces and paragraphs...fine I give......aint gonna happen EVER,

Okay, shit, I just tried a second time and stil NO COMPRENDO...DAMMIT JIM!!! (it's too hard for me hunny)

Tipys
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:50 PM
I got a question what about the turns you can see everything and then a Harley guy picks the wroung time to pass almost hitting a truck and taking you and a few other riders out at the same time coming towards you?

Nick_Ninja
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:50 PM
OMG, I can't even read that. Do you southies not understand Paragraphs and shit. Ya know...to help the reader, READ. Good god almighty. Use spaces and paragraphs...fine I give......aint gonna happen EVER,

Okay, shit, I just tried a second time and stil NO COMPRENDO...DAMMIT JIM!!! (it's too hard for me hunny)

Makes total sense to me. Elephant vision helps.:drink:

Snowman
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:51 PM
I got a question what about the turns you can see everything and then a Harley guy picks the wroung time to pass almost hitting a truck and taking you and a few other riders out at the same time coming towards you?Lobby to outlaw Harley’s?

jimwallace
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:51 PM
dont northies know how to spell....still has 2 l's and damnit is spelled damnit.....:silly:...hahah..bring it:vader:.......its okay love ya anyway:makeout:

jimwallace
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:56 PM
besides, i did use spaces....and that was A paragraph.

64BonnieLass
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:56 PM
why do you need an answer

Jim you know exactly why I want the answer. You should know why I want it more than anybody.

I post these questions for others to learn from. Not that I don't hope to benefit, because they are my true questions the more that I ride.

I want to know the motivation that "we" have". I want to know why we blow turns at uncaring speeds with no supposed consequence on the other end??? Really???

I want to know why we, as sportbikes, feel the need to blow turns out of the water on the "street"?

And furthermore, I want to know that if I'm missing something, why am I not willing to do it? Why won't I follow you or anybody else at fucking insane paces? Why are you guys so damed fast in those blind faith turns? What the heck makes me think harder in each turn as though I have something to lose that you don't?

Tipys
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:56 PM
Lobby to outlaw Harley’s?

I second



dont northies know how to spell....still has 2 l's and damnit is spelled damnit.....:silly:...hahah..bring it:vader:.......its okay love ya anyway:makeout:


Jim dont bring up spelling cause there just gonna bring me into this.

jimwallace
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 09:58 PM
yeah well trevor i think youre a closet case northie

asp_125
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 10:01 PM
The only thing that matters, is if at the end of the ride you take off your helmet with a smile, thinking.. damn that was a fun ride, can't wait to do it again. Then you walk into the house and kiss your loved one(s). That's all the justification needed, not how fast or slow you ride or how willing you are to push the envelope.


...
And furthermore, I want to know that if I'm missing something, why am I not willing to do it? Why won't I follow you or anybody else at fucking insane paces? Why are you guys so damed fast in those blind faith turns? What the heck makes me think harder in each turn as though I have something to lose that you don't?

Because you do have something to lose, not only are you riding for yourself, but your friends as well. Imagine the trauma if any of us were to lose a fellow rider on a ride. We'd hate to lose a companion like you, or anyone for that matter. Survival instinct.. it's a good thing.

Tipys
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 10:02 PM
yeah well trevor i think youre a closet case northie


:shocked:

Don't you every say that shit agian

jimwallace
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 10:02 PM
1.I want to know the motivation that "we" have". I want to know why we blow turns at uncaring speeds with no supposed consequence on the other end??? Really???



2.I want to know why we, as sportbikes, feel the need to blow turns out of the water on the "street"?



3.And furthermore, I want to know that if I'm missing something, why am I not willing to do it? Why won't I follow you or anybody else at fucking insane paces? Why are you guys so damed fast in those blind faith turns? What the heck makes me think harder in each turn as though I have something to lose that you don't?
1.i think this is different for all of us. some like the ability to have control at such levels, others like the loss of control, and some just like the rush, ect ect.


2. not just sportbikes, but cars, trucks, cruisers ect. too.


3.you simply havent found the reason for yourself to do so. you may find it or you may not. its up to you and entirely fine either way.

Nick_Ninja
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 10:07 PM
T,

It's all about developing confidence. You do that through experience --- and making mistakes. It helps to know the road and to know what to 'expect' around the corner. An example I can provide here is I slow way down on known roads with wildlife access to water in the late afternoon as these migration paths tend to be populated at that time. There is no guarantee that deer won't be on their way to the watering hole at any time but it seems to be more popular at sunset.

In the winter I take the outside, weighted tire track in the turns (right turns in the left tire track and left turns in the right tire track) to avoid sand accumulation on the road.

Just two tidbits I continue to use to survive this 'sport'.

UglyDogRacing
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 10:09 PM
Jim you know exactly why I want the answer. You should know why I want it more than anybody.

I post these questions for others to learn from. Not that I don't hope to benefit, because they are my true questions the more that I ride.

I want to know the motivation that "we" have". I want to know why we blow turns at uncaring speeds with no supposed consequence on the other end??? Really???

I want to know why we, as sportbikes, feel the need to blow turns out of the water on the "street"?

And furthermore, I want to know that if I'm missing something, why am I not willing to do it? Why won't I follow you or anybody else at fucking insane paces? Why are you guys so damed fast in those blind faith turns? What the heck makes me think harder in each turn as though I have something to lose that you don't?


"Ride your horse along the edge of a sword; hide yourself in the middle of flames...."

mtnairlover
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 10:10 PM
T,

It's all about developing confidence. You do that through experience --- and making mistakes. It helps to know the road and to know what to 'expect' around the corner. An example I can provide here is I slow way down on known roads with wildlife access to water in the late afternoon as these migration paths tend to be populated at that time. There is no guarantee that deer won't be on their way to the watering hole at any time but it seems to be more popular at sunset.

In the winter I take the outside, weighted tire track in the turns (right turns in the left tire track and left turns in the right tire track) to avoid sand accumulation on the road.

Just two tidbits I continue to use to survive this 'sport'.


Jeff hit this one outta the park.

I was gonna post this with the last one where I mentioned being intimate with the roads...this is what I mean by intimate...

I was gonna include in one of my responses that I don't just know roads because I've been on them a whole lot, but because of other conditions like weather, the shape of the road/age, width of the road, rock walls by the road and what happens during bad weather around those rock walls, and so much more stuff. The Earth and nature is a tad more predictable than people are IMO. Even paying attention to traffic flow in the canyons with cars helps to predict whether or not there may be animals in the road around the next turn, which actually happened last year to me.

Basically, my senses are heightened in every sense...not just my feeling from the bike, but everything else around me.

asp_125
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 10:15 PM
... in the late afternoon as these migration paths tend to be populated at that time. There is no guarantee that deer won't be on their way to the watering hole at any time but it seems to be more popular at sunset.

Corollary: in the late afternoon as these migration paths tend to be populated at that time. There is no guarantee that bar hoppers won't be on their way to the watering hole at any time but it seems to be more popular at sunset.

I see you've ridden past the Little Bear in Evergreen on a summer afternoon. :D

Nick_Ninja
Tue Feb 3rd, 2009, 10:18 PM
Corollary: in the late afternoon as these migration paths tend to be populated at that time. There is no guarantee that bar hoppers won't be on their way to the watering hole at any time but it seems to be more popular at sunset.

I see you've ridden past the Little Bear in Evergreen on a summer afternoon. :D

Never past ----- directly to the front door and to the bar. :drink:

Bueller
Wed Feb 4th, 2009, 05:38 AM
How do you hit those blind turns never knowing if your 75% or 100% is enough or too much to be safe? Or even better, within your ability - that you are 100% confident that you can handle it?
Seat time has taught me I don't panic in crash avoidance situations.
Honey you could be riding up dear creek in a straight and high visibility situation hand have a deer jet out of the woods and t-bone you, they aren't very bright you know. Or some jackweed drops a cig in his lap and swerves into your lane looking for it , or a million different scenario's
I think you might be a bit over anxious. Just keep riding, the more seat time the more comfortable you will get. It is all about risk management.
Do you see a pattern in T's questions? :lol::makeout:

CHRISTIAN COWBOY
Wed Feb 4th, 2009, 08:23 AM
[quote=Bueller;405215]Seat time has taught me I don't panic in crash avoidance situations.
Honey you could be riding up dear creek in a straight and high visibility situation hand have a deer jet out of the woods and t-bone you, they aren't very bright you know.

Been there!!
Done that!
We were riding 10 strong and a deer came out of nowhere and picked a guy off his bike, in the middle of the pack.
Was with gixxercarrie and we had to limp the guy home.:hump:

TFOGGuys
Wed Feb 4th, 2009, 08:41 AM
Terri, there's some things that helped me when I was a noob, that I use to this day:

1. Look as far up the road as you possibly can. the earlier you can see a hazard, the more time you have to react and avoid it.

2. Related to the above, position yourself to see as much of the upcoming turns as possible, and use a slower entry and later turn in, so you can see more before you commit to a line.

3. Use the "vanishing point" to help set entry speed. This is the point where the sides of the road appear to come together. As it gets closer to you, reduce throttle or brake. As the vanishing point moves further up the road, you can accelerate.

4. Brake hard early, set corner speed, and accelerate through the corner. Late turn in and apexes almost always yield maximum vision, and give you a better chance of reacting to the odd corner that tightens more than you expect.

5. When (not if) you think you're going too fast in a corner, trust your tires and bike. If your tires are still on the ground, you CAN turn in tighter and make the corner. Just release the brake, hold the throttle open a little, and lean on the inside bar. This has saved my bacon more than once in the last 25 years.

6. As others have stated, leave a reserve. My personal limit on the street is 49% of flat out, figured as 70% of MY ability multiplied by 70% of the available traction. This will vary based on how I feel, and the road conditions. I never feel the need to ride over my head to keep up with a vastly better (or less cautious) rider. If I happen to lose them, I'll catch up at the next stop. Or not. If not, I can find my way home. Conversely, I'll stop and wait for slower riders to regroup.

I hope this helps :)

InlineSIX24
Wed Feb 4th, 2009, 09:07 AM
..No matter how good you are, you're gonna get screwed going around that turn with speed regardless of skill. No? Am I wrong here?

I'm with you on that one. I find myself letting the front of the pack go and riding back a bit because I've seen what happens when people push it and run into a hazard around a blind turn, from close calls and rear tire washout on gravel to hitting a patch of rocks and having no place to go. That keeps me from riding to the point where I would go down. I worry more about those then slow moving cars. I've come around corners and almost hit deer, ..at least with those you have a chance that they will run out of your way. I think that always having those in the back of mind has probably kept me from becoming a better rider in some ways, but I don't look forward to lying in a hospital bed for a month in a body cast, or worse.

Sean
Wed Feb 4th, 2009, 09:36 AM
How do you guys do spirited runs, and take those turns so fast not knowing what is on the other side?Stupidity. Lets face it, not knowing what is around the next corner and going fast through it is just plain dumb. It's the adrenaline that drives us to do it every time.


I can hold a line (ish - not so much on a good ADHD day), and I work on it every time I'm out. But when I am in a blind turn in the canyons, I just can't help but wonder if there is a deer, a car stalled, an accident causing the oh shit factor as I see myself going over the rear of the car. My mind goes there every single time. Which distracts me from my riding and focusing on skill.Sometimes it's good to hold a line, but sometimes it's not. On the street it's just as important to be able to break the line and get through the corner. The "oh shit" factor is confidence. As many have said in this post, don't ride out of your comfort level. The track is the place to push your abilities, not the street. Do what feels comfortable and controllable. When you push to hard out of your comfort zone, bad things happen. :(


Even at a slow pace I'm usually still around 20MPH over the speed limit in those turns. And most of you guys are WAY ahead of me.I've never been on a ride where anybody was mocked for their lack of speed. If I did come across a person like that, I probably wouldn't ride with them again. It's about enjoyment, fun and safety. If someone doesn't agree, we don't need to ride together. Again, push the limits at the track, not the street. If someone falls behind a little bit, people always wait to assure the safety of all of the riders.


I find myself being more comfortable in my abilities on the sweepers because I don't have to worry my lil head about what if's. Therefore I'm more confident in those turns and ride a wee bit better and stonger and faster then on the blind turns.Practice. Try practicing blind turns, but start slowly. Last year, I rode the same twisty/blind cornered road everyday on my lunch hour, just to get better at it. And it worked. Or do it with someone you trust and that can hep you with some techniques/roads.


How do I get over it? Or should I? How do you guys do it? What is the faith in those blind turns at speed? Ride your own ride and get better, just like you've done at the track. Be patient and don't push harder than you need to. Just be safe :up:

Disclaimer: Take everything I saw as personal opinion. I'm not nearly as seasoned as some of the people on here.

Sortarican
Wed Feb 4th, 2009, 09:37 AM
Great points, all of them.:up:


I dunno...I thought everyone does what I do...

And that would be what..........crash?:think:


There have only been maybe 3 people in the whole CSC who have EVER told me I was too slow....

Yeah, but in my defense, I wasn't talking about your riding.:lol:


I Think, Therefore I Am. That's why.

You lost Jim at "think".


...I still don't have an answer about running those turns at those kind of speeds on blind faith.

OK, seriously:
1) Never use blind faith. It should always be based on your feel for your, and your bikes, abilities and expected road conditions.
Sunrise and sunset, expect a higher chance of deer being out, reduce speed.
Winter/Spring, expect more crap on the road, reduce speed.
Weekends in a popular hiking/biking/sightseeing area, expect bonehead moves, reduce speed.

2) This state does a pretty good job of consistently grading turns, so a curve marked at 35mph in one canyon is usually going to be about the same in the next.

3) Take right handers a little slower than lefthanders. Loosing it in a right turn puts you in the path of oncoming traffic.

4) Practice and get in the habit of tightening a turn.
Bailing out of a turn is easy, just stand the bike up and you'll go wide 100% of the time.
But getting used to adding a couple degrees of lean and (lightly) throttling up in the middle of a turn takes a little practice.
Also another reason to never ride past a certain % (I like to stay below 60% on the street).

5) Practice braking/scrubbing speed in corners.
I wouldn't recommend doing too much this on the street at realtime speeds.
Practice it at the track or a parking lot.

MetaLord 9
Wed Feb 4th, 2009, 09:51 AM
This is gonna echo what a lot of folks have said, but it doesn't make it less true. Riding well within your own abilities gives you a margin of error without getting into the "there but for the grace of God" abilities.

On unknown roads I'm a lot slower through blind corners because I've got more to take in and process, like where the road goes, which line I need to take, which line I'm currently on, etc. On known roads I'll hit 'em a little harder around the blind corners because I know where the road is gonna be and I've only got to look for road hazards. That said, if I blow around a corner and find myself in the middle of a hairy situation, I know I've ALWAYS got options. Since I'm riding at no more than 60%-70% of my overall abilities, I know I've got another 30%-40% left as "save my ass" skills. If I come around a corner hot and see some unexpected debris in the road I'm likely to pull up a little, scrub some speed off, and then get back into the turn with a new line that will help me get around the danger. OR if I see a better line on the inside then have confidence in the bike and your own abilities to lean a little farther and give it a little more throttle to pull that tighter line. That extra left over ability is there for you to make adjustments without being in serious trouble.

Just remember, you ALWAYS have options. The more you get comfortable and confident in panic situations and at higher speeds, the better you will get at making the best decisions. When you hit something like that you've got just immediately go into what you're going to do, panicing takes up time that you don't have.

And sometimes you come across that situation where you've got to strongly considering doing the unthinkable: dumping the bike to save your ass. I came through a corner at the end of the day last summer and the sun was at the worst possible spot and completely blinded me. I might as well have taken the turn with my eyes closed. I thought to myself "Ok, I'm pretty sure I know where this turn goes so I'm riding for that line. If it's not where I think it is, I'm gonna have to low side the bike and slide out." Road rash and conversations with insurance are always preferable to a dirt nap.

As far as the speed goes, ride your own pace and practice good group riding. I think it's good to push yourself so that you can grow your own abilities but don't ride so far out of your comfort zone that youre face is constantly in panic look. Go quick for you and if it's not quick enough for someone else, wave them around when it's safe and talk out what you think you did well and what you would like some help/advice with at the next stop. Do that and you'll always make it to the next stop.

SaShWhO
Wed Feb 4th, 2009, 11:12 AM
Great discussion btw. I think all newbies should read this.

+1
make it a mandatory read!!

Slo
Wed Feb 4th, 2009, 11:20 AM
I think there will always be "risk" whether your on 2 or 4 wheels, hell there is always risk in general. I believe that you can, however, like many mentioned previously, "minimize the risk your taking". Some stated that riding within your means is the way to go, problem is, most people interpret this as "I made it through the turn without crossing lines".

To me, riding within your means is exactly what Jim (ugly dog racing)stated.... Riding at best 75% of your potential for feeling comfy... This way you will have that abilitiy and time to react to as much as possible for anything unseen, I call it "keeping a margin for error"....

64BonnieLass
Wed Feb 4th, 2009, 11:26 AM
Great points everyone.

One of my reasons for posting these types of questions, as I do from time to time, is for that great discussion to transpire.

It's really pretty cool to read some of the great comments and to see where there is a common theme amongst us as riders.

Also, if others read it and are able to learn only one thing, or take something positive from the conversation then it's good for all of us.

Thanks guys. :)

Snowman
Wed Feb 4th, 2009, 11:41 AM
Terri, the great educator… :)

ihavealegohead
Wed Feb 4th, 2009, 03:41 PM
I have a question regarding faith in the turns in the canyons.

How do you guys do spirited runs, and take those turns so fast not knowing what is on the other side?

From personal experience there isn't much you can do about the deer. (Fucking DEER!!)

If your a FOG like me with kids and responsibility you might just let the kids do those corners and catch up on the straights.

That said, when I do corners faster then I should I just hope that when I'm about to hit something I can either slip to the side or try to make the collision a little less painful.

Another point worth mentioning -- if your the last in the group, hopefully all your buddies crash ahead of you and either a) give you warning b) pile up a bunch of soft bodies for you to run into.

In the case of A) get the experienced riders right in front of you, giving you a few split seconds notice.

In case of B) try to find the fattest guy on the smallest bike,and ride behind him. It's also worth mentioning that fatter guys tend to be more flachulent. Hopefully if he or she is fat enough, the bike will slide away providing you a softer collision point.

Jim_Vess
Wed Feb 4th, 2009, 04:51 PM
Another point worth mentioning -- if your the last in the group, hopefully all your buddies crash ahead of you and either a) give you warning b) pile up a bunch of soft bodies for you to run into.

In the case of A) get the experienced riders right in front of you, giving you a few split seconds notice.

In case of B) try to find the fattest guy on the smallest bike,and ride behind him. It's also worth mentioning that fatter guys tend to be more flachulent. Hopefully if he or she is fat enough, the bike will slide away providing you a softer collision point.

Note to self: When riding in groups, follow the fat guy.

King Nothing
Sun Jun 28th, 2009, 06:50 PM
I don't have any faith in the road. I have faith that my bike will do what it was designed to do and what I ask it to do. It has the potential to do so much more than I could ever ask of it.

Bueller
Sun Jun 28th, 2009, 06:52 PM
I lean more when I go faster, don't know why but it works for me :)

Bueller
Sun Jun 28th, 2009, 07:24 PM
Have you re read this thread? Do you see the improvement in your riding since you first started this?

Nick_Ninja
Sun Jun 28th, 2009, 08:05 PM
Ride more. Ride fast. Take chances. Until you condition your mind that it is OK to take chances (risk) you won't progress. Simple concept. Not to be condescending or confrontational.

64BonnieLass
Sun Jun 28th, 2009, 09:11 PM
Kapowww..Just read old posts. This one was awesome.


A few of us who shall remain nameless (but who have posted in this thread :D ) have been up and down 7 so many times we know the corners in our sleep. On other roads I will dial it back even more since I am not familiar with the corners. Nevertheless, I keep that "what if" thought in the back of my mind; it's the angel on your shoulder balancing the devil in your right hand. Never ride faster than you can brake, never ride with the thought of keeping up or trying not to be the turtle in front.

The 3 keys are: smoothness, precision, and control. Smooth enough to not need to scrub off speed suddenly or throw the bike around more than you need to; overreacting upsets the balance of the bike. Precise enough to hit all of your marks all of the time, and always remain in control. If you rush a corner you will give up one or more of the three items. Most riders don't automatically become fast, they creep up to it.

As for confidence? Develop a trust in your abilities, in your tires, and a healthy respect of the road conditions. Know when you can hang it out a bit, versus when to back it down.

Nick_Ninja
Sun Jun 28th, 2009, 09:14 PM
And the only way to get there is to ride. Not by posting on a board.

Nick_Ninja
Sun Jun 28th, 2009, 09:22 PM
NM

kawasakirob
Mon Jun 29th, 2009, 03:31 PM
Going into blind corners at speed on the road is stupid. People who hit right/left hand blind corners on the street at speed have not slid accross oncoming traffic or ran wide into oncoming traffic. If your lucky enough to live through that first mistake of doing so, chances are it will scare the living shit out of you and you will ride more consevatively on the street(around blind corners) from there on after. Nothing like taking a corner and seeing some rocks and stuff while you are pretty heavily leaned over with no place to go, let alone that stopped RV who is looking at a Deer midcorner.

asp_125
Mon Jun 29th, 2009, 03:43 PM
.. Nothing like taking a corner and seeing some rocks and stuff while you are pretty heavily leaned over with no place to go, let alone that stopped RV who is looking at a Deer midcorner.

rocks, deer, RV... .. or the cop who gave us the "slow down" sign on P2P yesterday afternoon. :oops:

LiQuIdAiR=OTB=
Mon Jun 29th, 2009, 04:12 PM
I must admit that i've recently fallen pray to the fearless rider in some cases. The abilities in myself have grown in leaps and bounds. The understand of weather conditions and tire prepareness are becoming easier to understand. The more you ride in changing conditions the more you understand about your bikes ability. You understand if road variables come your way you have several things at your favor. One, speed. Which is also deadly. Two, the make/compound of your tires. Three, your ability to plan exit strategies. Four, how well you know your bike. Do you ride relaxed or do you grip the handles to where your hands hurt at the end of a ride?

Each of course is mix differently based on the environment. But, knowing and appreciating each gives, at least me, the ability to enjoy a ride and "dodge" the unknown. Dodge you shall.

In short, I think the true riders of this sport come to terms about life and it's possiblities. It's probably more stupid than anything but it seems this is based on perspective.

If a person is unsure about this sport then perhaps they should take the time to evaluate their situation. May be happier doing something else. There is nothing wrong with trying and disliking and moving on. Shows courage you tried and an open mind for future endevours.

Nick_Ninja
Mon Jun 29th, 2009, 07:42 PM
I must admit that i've recently fallen pray to the fearless rider in some cases. The abilities in myself have grown in leaps and bounds. The understand of weather conditions and tire prepareness are becoming easier to understand. The more you ride in changing conditions the more you understand about your bikes ability. You understand if road variables come your way you have several things at your favor. One, speed. Which is also deadly. Two, the make/compound of your tires. Three, your ability to plan exit strategies. Four, how well you know your bike. Do you ride relaxed or do you grip the handles to where your hands hurt at the end of a ride?

Each of course is mix differently based on the environment. But, knowing and appreciating each gives, at least me, the ability to enjoy a ride and "dodge" the unknown. Dodge you shall.

In short, I think the true riders of this sport come to terms about life and it's possiblities. It's probably more stupid than anything but it seems this is based on perspective.

If a person is unsure about this sport then perhaps they should take the time to evaluate their situation. May be happier doing something else. There is nothing wrong with trying and disliking and moving on. Shows courage you tried and an open mind for future endevours.
:

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have ridden and lost
Than never to have ridden at all.

--- Alfred Lord Tennyson's poem In Memoriam:27, 1850 :D

pannetron
Mon Jun 29th, 2009, 08:38 PM
Learning to trail brake, AKA braking while leaned over will save your life someday. Those riders who must stand up their bikes to brake hard will one day ride out of their lane and into the grill of the on-coming RV that's half in their lane. The other life saving skill is knowing how to lean your bike WAY over and trust the tires. And not leaning the other way so your foot pegs ground out and lever the tires off the ground and you low side. Ride into blind turns way deep -- late apex -- so you have as much time and road as possible to correct for any surprises. And yes, Virginia, some folks just ride stupid fast and hope their luck, not skill, gets them through alive.

Nick_Ninja
Mon Jun 29th, 2009, 09:12 PM
Counter steering isn't a too bad thing to know either.

kawasakirob
Mon Jun 29th, 2009, 09:59 PM
rocks, deer, RV... .. or the cop who gave us the "slow down" sign on P2P yesterday afternoon. :oops:

Yeah no kidding:)

64BonnieLass
Wed Jul 1st, 2009, 09:58 PM
Wow. I missed some of the recent comments posted. But I have done some soul searching in recent days.

I post these questions in the hopes of the conversation. And I really feel that there are many many great posts here and in my other BS T's Q threads. There is a great deal of knowledge to be gained. I hope to better myself through those conversations. If someone else is able to identify then great. If the questions appear to be stupid to some of you, then so be it.

But I sincerely have no issues with humbling myself to whatever degree to ask, either for my betterment or for others who may be reading.

I ride. I ride as much as I can and with as many varied groups as I can to as many different routes as I can.

But in my searching, and some of these posts have helped immensely, I have decided what kind of rider I want to be.

I have a great deal of work to do as a rider. And it may (probably will) take the rest of my life to accomplish it. But I take pleasure in that. Because the path will be on a bike, which is all I ever wanted anyway.

I suppose my conclusion is that I just want to ride. I don't want Mach 3. I don't want dangerous blind turns, at those speeds, to fooker my life up. When I am doing 20+ over posted in the canyons, and still the slow chic?....I am perfectly at peace with that.

All I want is to ride. And to be a better rider over the course of time.

If you want to help, great. If you want to critisize me, then piss off, and save your participation for another thread. Because there may actually be somebody other then me, to whom this thread means something to.

Otherwise, there are some fantastic learning tips from a lot of great people here. Thank you to those people who offered up their opinions and lessons.

Tipys
Wed Jul 1st, 2009, 10:28 PM
Learning to trail brake, AKA braking while leaned over will save your life someday. Those riders who must stand up their bikes to brake hard will one day ride out of their lane and into the grill of the on-coming RV that's half in their lane. The other life saving skill is knowing how to lean your bike WAY over and trust the tires. And not leaning the other way so your foot pegs ground out and lever the tires off the ground and you low side. Ride into blind turns way deep -- late apex -- so you have as much time and road as possible to correct for any surprises. And yes, Virginia, some folks just ride stupid fast and hope their luck, not skill, gets them through alive.



Wait whats this rear brake you speak of?


And yes Terry ride, ride, and then ride some more.

Nick_Ninja
Wed Jul 1st, 2009, 10:52 PM
Maybe I was too harsh. I will go ride all weekend and think about that.

64BonnieLass
Wed Jul 1st, 2009, 11:01 PM
Wait whats this rear brake you speak of?
And yes Terry ride, ride, and then ride some more.

Yea, I actually was lectured on a canyon ride for using my rear brake in the turns..and how dangerous it was. All I did, was nod. :) If you can use it appropriately, it's a stellar tool. Of course now, I have a hard time using rear, because of the track, but I ride differently track vs. street. Weird sometimes even to me, how differently I ride in those two venues.


Maybe I was too harsh. I will go ride all weekend and think about that.

Excellent Idea dear heart!!! And yes, you were too harsh. But we can discuss it. I deleted some of my posts, but after thinking about it, I feel the way I feel, and I am the way I am. And I have no reason to be ashamed for the way I ride or my ideals on riding, that work for me. I ride my own ride, and I always will. Hmmmm...who taught me that one? :)

Tipys
Wed Jul 1st, 2009, 11:09 PM
I don't ever use the rear brake unless stopped while on a hill.

64BonnieLass
Wed Jul 1st, 2009, 11:21 PM
I don't ever use the rear brake unless stopped while on a hill.

Yea, and I happen to have the luxury to know a VERY good rider who uses it in canyons on the super tight spots. I have yet to master it, but it works and works well, with throttle control. I don't even know where I picked it up from initially, but for some reason I started using it early on. And it works if you can use it appropriately.

I'm still practicing and will be for years to come. :)

RAGrote
Thu Jul 2nd, 2009, 01:16 PM
I'm not a big betting man but I'd wager 60-80% of those who ride 6/10ths or higher would be highly screwed if there was an obstacle in the road, around a blind corner, that could not be driven around. (probably me included)

The odds are astronomical that there will NEVER be something like that in your path. But still, once...

When I used to ride ALL THE TIME at 6 or higher I rode with a GREAT deal of faith that there were no such obstacles in my way. Arrogance will kill ya, sure.

But don't most of us have the expectation that NOTHING will EVER happen to MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE....?

RAGrote
Thu Jul 2nd, 2009, 01:24 PM
I think a lot of people ride well beyond safe limits on the street. Either they fool themselves about the actual safety margin, they over estimate thier abilities, etc, etc.

And who hasn't seen those riders (sport, cruiser and tourer) who are over their head the second they pull the cover off their bike?
Totally unaware and without a care.

I've mentioned to 2 people in my life that they should NOT be riding motorcycles. Just never "got it". Never sought knowledge, never practiced their skills... Both fell over - really didn't have the skill to ride fast - scuffed up their bikes on multiple occasions until the family stepped in with an "intervention". "Daddy... please don't die":crazy:

Sortarican
Thu Jul 2nd, 2009, 03:49 PM
How do you guys do spirited runs, and take those turns so fast not knowing what is on the other side?...

Ask Carrie, she has that shit down.








Still too soon?

Wintermute
Thu Jul 2nd, 2009, 04:26 PM
Yea, and I happen to have the luxury to know a VERY good rider who uses it in canyons on the super tight spots. I have yet to master it, but it works and works well, with throttle control. I don't even know where I picked it up from initially, but for some reason I started using it early on. And it works if you can use it appropriately.

I'm still practicing and will be for years to come. :)

It's covered in this vid as a way to "pivot" through square corners:
Ride Like Rossi pt1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck83BtS_o3c)
Ride Like Rossi pt2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvQpJPelS34&feature=related)

Scer
Thu Jul 2nd, 2009, 04:46 PM
It's all about risk Terri...Most of life is. (sometimes it bites you in the ass) If you wanna take the risk of losing your $5-$30k bike due to a wash out or some four legged creature... Some days I do and some I don't.

When I do, it's usually still with some cation. Having the ability to put some of the bikes capacity on reserve to get me out of a crappy situation. I use both front and rear brakes. (you still have 20-30% stopping power at the rear wheel) Using the engine speed more than anything else. If you keep your rpms high then you have a lot more control of deceleration and acceleration than if they were low. And try to limit the pucker effects because if you aren't calm enough to control your bike, the bike sure as hell won't save your ass.
And like the others say.. get some experience on the roads that you wanna go fast on. When you know what the blind corner looks like on the other side, when the surprises come up then you can say "self, something is not right here at all".
Just be smooth and consistent instead of trying to be faster. It will be lot more fun that way for sure. Oh yeah. don't forget to use ALL of your lane. Wide out, close in, and wide back out.

ok, I am done...

rant on rantas

64BonnieLass
Fri Jul 3rd, 2009, 05:02 PM
Wonderful comments everyone. Thank you so much. There are some great opinions that hit home from almost everybody who has posted. Seat time and personal experience is what all new riders need. But your perspectives help a lot too. Thanks guys.

Wintermute, great links on the trail breaking. Practice, practice...:)

I just love this sport. :D