R1 rear sag ?'s and suspention ideas

[BlueDevil]

Allright Im gettin closer. Just had a few questions. I am using a stock shock in the rear and I set the sag on it. At the start I was about 1.2" and I tightened it up to be just over 3/4". I do love it and feel a huge difference in stability. However in order to get it to that measurement I am on the very last setting I have avail on this shock. It wont go any tighter. Im just wondering if this is common? Fully geared up I weigh just about 195lbs. I dont think I need to go any tighter Im just curious if this sounds right? Thoughts? Ideas? Would this indicate that I would HAVE to get a new rear shock if I weighed like 250lbs and the shock would not tighten up to an acceptable setting or am I looking at this all wrong?


On a side note I have begun the front as well. From stock settings I have taken the rebound out 4 clicks to avoid so much spring back coming off the brake. When I would come out of hard braking I felt unstable cause there was so much stap back. Now it comes back at me much smoother and more controlable. Ill be going out to the track to get the front set up just right. Any tips? How much travel should I have on a hard brake? I heard it should use almost all of the useable area with out bottoming out. That true? Any suggestions is as always appreciated. Remember: Im a suspention rookie please explain your thoughts as such.............

Thanks

[Bryce]

actually Dion you were about dead nut's when you started you want about 1/4 to 1/3 of your total travel sag ie. about 1" to 1 1/4"

[BlueDevil]

No kidding? I talked to a few AMA folks at PPIR and they said about 3/4 to an inch. Who knows? I guess everyone is different. I do feel more stable now though. Bumps are hell on the street but in the corners I feel like I dont have as much movement in the back end.

Explain if U please......... What are the pro's and cons of different measurements?

[UglyDogRacing]

No kidding? I talked to a few AMA folks at PPIR and they said about 3/4 to an inch. Who knows? I guess everyone is different. I do feel more stable now though. Bumps are hell on the street but in the corners I feel like I dont have as much movement in the back end.

Explain if U please......... What are the pro's and cons of different measurements?


Really depends on the track. PPIR is very smooth so less sag is ideal for that track. For the street and the other tracks in the state, 1" to 1 1/4" would be right.

[BlueDevil]

Ok but Y? Keep in mind I was fine with the stock setting but until now have not had any different. I have mine at just over 3/4" and it seems so much smoother and stable. Whats my pro and con either way?

[yakuza]

Ok, so you have 3/4" of sag in the rear currently, what happens when you hit a pothole that is 1" deep? Your shock will top out and could unsettle the bike. If you had that 1" to 1-1/4" of sag, you'd still have room for the wheel to travel without upsetting the bike. This is just one scenario, but (from my understanding) sag is to put your suspension in it's optimum operating range, and to preload the spring to an optimum point to provide compliance without bottoming out.

Many people prefer a more firm suspension because it gives a little more feedback, this doesn't necessarily mean it is the optimum range for your suspension to be in. I'd suggest reading the Sportbike Performance Handbook, it's got some good info on the mechanics of how our bikes work. :up:

[Ytry2]

Sag

take 3 buddies

one tape measure
some duct tape
a black pin
a metel rod, or wire *i use safety wire that has been twisted up and stright* i have used string in a pinch

First turn your compression and rebound to full SOFT *make note of how many turns or clicks it took to get there. WRITE it down

get of the bike, lift the bike's weight off the tire
gently set it back down.
let the bike settle under it's own weight. mesure the distance between 2 points...
Me i am lazy, i take a long straight wire and attach it to the tail above the rear axel..

Place a peice of tape on the swing arm next to the axel bolt
place a mark at where the pointer touches when the bike is sitting under its own weight.

take your tape measure, measure from the mark you just made 27 mm -30 mm down

now have the rider get on the bike, bounce up and down and then sit in riding posistion with full gear on. make your adjustment to the spring *preload* *loosen tighten* intill you hit the mark you made for 27-30mm.

place your compression and rebound back to the posistion you had.
I am race tech'd and weight 160 pounds with gear. I have .80 springs in the front, stock spring in rear on my GSXR600. running 5w suspension fluid.

i have 27 mm sag in the front - comp. 1 and 1/2 full turns from hard rebound 1 and 1/2 from hard
and 30 in the rear with 1 and 1/4 from hard on comp and 1 and 1/4 from hard on rebound.

for stock street bike, look in past issues of sport rider, they have their suspesion set up on the bikes they test that will give you a general starting point.. how ever you MUST set the sag to you your self, then use there comp/rebound setting as a base number.

Remember these bikes are set up for a 140-160 pound rider from Japan

[954ßlaÐeRunnerr]

Im good with how to do it. Read up on it well. Just wanted to knwo pros and cons. I do like the feed back and stiffness of it at 3/4". Not many pot holes on the track but I see your point on the street. Any more thoughts?

[yakuza]

There may not be many potholes on the track, but you'd be suprised how the big some of the bumps can be, and how much more the bike reacts to even small bumps when you're travelling at high speeds.

If the bike feels better to you with 3/4" of sag, then I say ride it as-is! Suspension is a simple concept, with a much more complex application. No one is going to be able to tell you the magic settings to make your suspension feel perfect, because it's totally up to the way you ride and how you want the bike to feel. I again strongly suggest the Sportbike Performance Handbook, and the Twist of the Wrist II has a good section on suspension theory. You could also read the articles and info (including recommendations for your bike) on the Traxxion Dynamics website (http://www.traxxion.com).

I can try to answer your specific questions (to the best of knowledge, :) ):



However in order to get it to that measurement I am on the very last setting I have avail on this shock. It wont go any tighter. Im just wondering if this is common? Fully geared up I weigh just about 195lbs. I dont think I need to go any tighter Im just curious if this sounds right? Thoughts? Ideas? Would this indicate that I would HAVE to get a new rear shock if I weighed like 250lbs and the shock would not tighten up to an acceptable setting or am I looking at this all wrong?

You may not have to get a new shock, it's possible you could respring it with a heavier spring. Stock suspensions are generally on the soft side, so a heavier rider would need a heavier spring, and for best results probably a revalve. Unfortunately this frequently isn't possible with the stock suspension parts, so aftermarket becomes the way to go.



From stock settings I have taken the rebound out 4 clicks to avoid so much spring back coming off the brake. When I would come out of hard braking I felt unstable cause there was so much stap back. Now it comes back at me much smoother and more controlable.
Turning the rebound adjust out (counter-clockwise) should have reduced the amount of rebound damping, and will allow the fork to extend more quickly.



How much travel should I have on a hard brake? I heard it should use almost all of the useable area with out bottoming out. That true?
I don't believe you'll ever want to bottom out the forks. If your forks are bottomed out and you hit a bump, the whole bike will move instead of the front wheel only. I agree that you should be able to use as much of your suspension travel as you can without bottoming out.

Hope that helps.

[BlueDevil]

Thanks Alex. I agree. I do have the Twist of the Wrist II and have read it. Wait a minute heavier rider? U callin me fat? haha Anyway? I think I have a good idea. I also read the Yami manual an it has some good suggestions and info as well. Seems to make sense with the pics show as well. Ill give these ideas a try on Friday and let U know how it turns out. Thanks all.