CCW carry

[Fly boy]

So I am looking at getting a new gun for CCW but was curious to what you guys have had, or currently have.

I was hopeing for a Sub-compact for size reasons. Also, where do you carry, small of back, ankle, side?

[Knuckle Dragger]

Oh boy u opened a can of worms here and will never get a straight answer and all the professional opinion one could want. I cary a full size frame as I do not wnat to comprimise accuracy over anything. Again this is perference as it is you shooting it not me. I like the .40 caliber as it is framed as a 9mm but has the punch of a .45 this is something to think about. With a a 9 and I know people will balk at this you have to be commited to the scene as a 9 really does not have the take down it should. Meaning be prepared to shoot more then once if called upon to do so. As where to carry there are a lot of options I really like Galco Sky OPs holster used by the Air Marshalls as I can wear with a t-shirt and not show any of the weapon all I show is a small clip on my belt. Not really the most comfortable in a car; works real well on the bike. If you have a range near you try renting some guns and trying what you might want. Loveland has a really nice indoor range and it does rent all types of handguns. Good luck if u went send me a IM and I would be more then happy to help you anyway I can.

[PsychoMike]

do u have a pic of your holster?

[Fly boy]

Oh boy u opened a can of worms here and will never get a straight answer and all the professional opinion one could want. I cary a full size frame as I do not wnat to comprimise accuracy over anything. Again this is perference as it is you shooting it not me. I like the .40 caliber as it is framed as a 9mm but has the punch of a .45 this is something to think about. With a a 9 and I know people will balk at this you have to be commited to the scene as a 9 really does not have the take down it should. Meaning be prepared to shoot more then once if called upon to do so. As where to carry there are a lot of options I really like Galco Sky OPs holster used by the Air Marshalls as I can wear with a t-shirt and not show any of the weapon all I show is a small clip on my belt. Not really the most comfortable in a car; works real well on the bike. If you have a range near you try renting some guns and trying what you might want. Loveland has a really nice indoor range and it does rent all types of handguns. Good luck if u went send me a IM and I would be more then happy to help you anyway I can.


I was thinking .40 but I am open to 9mm as well. I would get some frag rounds for any weapon I go with and am a firm believer in "empty the mag" IFFFFF you really do have to use it.

I like the looks and feel of the Para LDA, just saw the Colt new agent and liked the looks. I don't have a place up here that will let me rent the guns, but I hold the ones from dealers around town.

any options out there that would be good besides the one's I listed?

[WidowmakerDutch]

I carry a Springfield Armory Tactical 1911. It's not the lightest pistol i've had but it's accurate and reliable when needed. I've owned several different brands Kimber,Colt and Para Ordnance.
My evaluation;

Springfield Armory - Not so light but clean and accurate fire
Para Ordnance - Kinda clumsy in the hand grip area. Seems to recoil much more than SA. Too much plastic.
Kimber- Nice affordable .45, accurate and clean fire.
Colt - There's a lot of recoil back onto the shooter. I did not like the Colt model.

[Fly boy]

I have a springfield 1911, and a Ruger P89. Both are WAY to big for me to CC. I just wear T-shirts and they are a little big to cover.

[Rhino]

I was thinking .40 but I am open to 9mm as well. I would get some frag rounds for any weapon I go with and am a firm believer in "empty the mag" IFFFFF you really do have to use it.

Then you need to be a firm believer in a spare mag:lol:

[pannetron]

My CCW choice is currently a XD-40 subcompact in .40 loaded with Federal LE Tactical HST rounds.

[d3spair]

My Glock 26

[JohnEffinK]

Glock 23 (.40 sub) in either a blackhawk serpa owb or a comptac iwb. Sometimes S&W .357 mod 66 with a no name iwb.

John

[Bebop]

I carry a G27 it is the Sub-compact .40 which I like. It is a small frame so it is easy to conceal with a double stack mag allowing you to carry 9 rounds with the factory clip and the recoil is not bad for a sub-compact for me it is easy to put follow up rounds on target. Accuracy is not bad, it is not great however, it is only a 3" barrel. Let me put it this way, you won't win any rapid fire 25 yrd pistol competitions with this gun however it will still hit the target at that range. The only down side I have had is that the grip is short, pinkey hangs off the bottom of the gun which can be annoying at first but you get used to it. I have a grip extender that is nice because I now have somplace to put my pinkey so it feels more acurate and I can get a site picture on the target just a fraction of a second sooner and it adds 1 round to the mag. so my gun is now at 10+1. Not bad for a sub-compact .40

How I carry it varies. Normally I have a IWB holster that sits at about 3 o'clock I have carried at 5 o'clock but it is uncomfortable to sit for long with the gun in that position. When I open carry I have a fobus retention holster that sits at about 4 o'clock.

I have shot a KAHR sub-compact. They are nice guns but don't work for me, with a single stack clip the handle is too small for my hand. I have also shot a 9MM Beretta great gun but in my mind not the best for concealment.

This is my view anyway.

[TFOGGuys]

So I am looking at getting a new gun for CCW but was curious to what you guys have had, or currently have.

I was hopeing for a Sub-compact for size reasons. Also, where do you carry, small of back, ankle, side?

I currently have a Baby Eagle fullsize in 9mm and another in .45, both carried in Kramer's IWB #3. I an looking for something smaller and lighter, strongly considering a S&W M&P .40 compact. I like the Smith better than the equivalent Glock, mostly because the barrel sits a bit lower in the frame, so it recoils more straight back rather than up, yielding a faster follow up on target.

[PROFLYER]

I carry the 340PD airlite. It's 11oz empty and has 5 .357 shots which is plenty. Guys that think you need 16 +1 are just carrying more weight. It has a crimson trace grip and has been voted carry gun of the year a few times. hammerless double action, squeeze and go. Not the most accurate but if you ever need it the assailant is within feet anyway. Plus, with the laser, its good at night. Trying to line up trijicon sights in the dark under pressure is ALMOST impossible, and unless you've taken advanced tactical handgun classes, you really just can't know how impossible it is.

Anyway, they retail at sportsmans for like 659, grip is another 200. I carry it in the summer in the small of my back in a simple nylon clip holster and in my CCW jacket in the winter.

[Kim-n-Dean]

Well, the first thing about CCW is not telling anyone. So, I'll break that rule for informational purposes... and I'm bored.

Springfield 1911 4" Champion .45 with hydrashoks. My holster is a WRB inside the pants and it's by far the best one I've used. I literally never leave home without it and it is extremely comfortable even in the car. They also make the same holster in a version where you can tuck in your shirt.

With my beer belly, you can't tell it's there at all, even with just a t-shirt (which is all I ever wear).

If any of the ladies out there are wondering too, you should check out Kim's purse. It specially made with a secret external pocket and a holster. Girls get all the cool stuff!

[Kim-n-Dean]

Trying to line up trijicon sights in the dark under pressure is ALMOST impossible, and unless you've taken advanced tactical handgun classes, you really just can't know how impossible it is.

Anyway, they retail at sportsmans for like 659, grip is another 200. I carry it in the summer in the small of my back in a simple nylon clip holster and in my CCW jacket in the winter.Tactical training teaches you not to use the sights. Draw and fire by feel. A laser gives up your position, too.

My instructor use to carry his back-up in the small of his back while on duty. He was in a fight and got knocked down and landed on the gun at his back. He said it was the most painful thing he's ever felt and it almost incapacitated him for a few seconds. I always thought that was a great spot until I heard that story.

[vmax2003]

I carry a walther P99...light weight, 9mm 15 round clip.
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc301/vmaxpower2003/790px-Walther_P99_9x19mm.png

[Fly boy]

Thanks for all the tips, definatly helps out. I will be definatly getting an IWB holster, but not in the small of the back (Thanks for the tip Dean). Now to try and find some around town if they are still in stock.

[PROFLYER]

Tactical training teaches you not to use the sights. Draw and fire by feel. A laser gives up your position, too.

My instructor use to carry his back-up in the small of his back while on duty. He was in a fight and got knocked down and landed on the gun at his back. He said it was the most painful thing he's ever felt and it almost incapacitated him for a few seconds. I always thought that was a great spot until I heard that story.

That was my point, you can't use sights.

Give up my position? WTF are you in some country we don't know about running special ops missions?

The nice thing about the laser that MANY instructors, cops yada yada will tell you is it gives you the ability to hold the gun close to your body while still knowing where that bullet is going. The Hartford Police Hostage Rescue (clients of mine) uses laser grips so they can cover someone under arrest while still having a free hand, they don't need the gun directly in their sight line to know where that thing is pointed. Anyway, everyone do as you wish, you're going to anyway, this was another option.

As far as carry position, falling on it anywhere would hurt, don't get into fights, you should be gone or shooting by then anyway.

[Kim-n-Dean]

That was my point, you can't use sights.

Give up my position? WTF are you in some country we don't know about running special ops missions?

The nice thing about the laser that MANY instructors, cops yada yada will tell you is it gives you the ability to hold the gun close to your body while still knowing where that bullet is going. The Hartford Police Hostage Rescue (clients of mine) uses laser grips so they can cover someone under arrest while still having a free hand, they don't need the gun directly in their sight line to know where that thing is pointed. Anyway, everyone do as you wish, you're going to anyway, this was another option.

As far as carry position, falling on it anywhere would hurt, don't get into fights, you should be gone or shooting by then anyway.I guess perhaps I'm over thinking once again. Depending on what courses you've taken, one method of teaching is to not announce your position in a home invasion type situation.

Example: You're in bed and you awake to someone in the house. Perhaps you awake to see them out your bedroom door. Light him up with a laser and maybe he has his shit together enough to return fire based on the only light in the house. Your laser.

Since I have delusions of Rambo, I even keep my shotgun chambered so the intruder doesn't hear the all mighty click-click. Sound can give you away too, but I'm just a gun nut dying to shoot someone...

[Kim-n-Dean]

...and, oh yeah. The cop seemed to think falling on the small of your back is the worst way. I don't know because I don't get into those situations. I was just sayin'...

[PROFLYER]

Got it, that's why I have the shotty chambered with light for the house also!

This is JUST for carry outside the home, using anything other than a shotgun for home protection is a huge risk. Drywall doesn't stop hollowpoints! I can't imagine the feeling of hitting the dog, your kids, the neighbor etc etc. Everyone needs to understand the tools for each application.

[Kim-n-Dean]

Got it, that's why I have the shotty chambered with light for the house also!

This is JUST for carry outside the home, using anything other than a shotgun for home protection is a huge risk. Drywall doesn't stop hollowpoints! I can't imagine the feeling of hitting the dog, your kids, the neighbor etc etc. Everyone needs to understand the tools for each application.We put our dog, of 16 years, down about a year and a half ago. I live on a decent sized lot and I have a vasectomy with no kids. We're covered!!! :lol:

[The Black Knight]

This is JUST for carry outside the home, using anything other than a shotgun for home protection is a huge risk. Drywall doesn't stop hollowpoints! I can't imagine the feeling of hitting the dog, your kids, the neighbor etc etc. Everyone needs to understand the tools for each application.
To get super technical on the Shotgun for ultimate home defense, only thing worth running in your shotgun(if you're overly concerned about wall penetration) is Bird Shot. 00 shot and 000 shot will blaze through drywall as well, albeit with usually one or two walls worth of penetration and then they tend to run out of steam.

Hollowpoints will go through as well, though the fact that the jacket getting expanded will help to slow the energy and cause it to tumble rather than a regular FMJ which will scorch right through every wall.

The Best Defense(show on The Outdoor Channel, every Wed. night) did a comparo a few episodes back(and did a recap last night) of five different rounds. 9mm, .45ACP, .223 and 00 Buck and Bird Shot.

All but the Bird Shot managed to penetrate every wall(I think they had 4 walls set up). It was odd because the 9mm and the .45 auto actually did probably the most damage overall. The .223 was so freaking fast that it just smoked all the walls and didn't expand like the 9mm and the .45 auto. The 00 buck, ripped through two walls and stopped, with the Bird Shot not making it through the second wall(meaning the bird shot was completely devoid of much of it's energy after leaving the first wall).

Another cool side note was that the Bird Shot they tested at ranges of under 5 yards managed to hold a very tight pattern. Meaning it would thump someone pretty good at very close range.

I'm going to have to disagree about the Night Sights comment and not being able to use them. The whole reason Night Sights were developed was so that people "could" use them in low light or No Light situations. And maybe I'm just strange enough but I've actually practiced at night in in extreme low light in my house lining up my night sights and running some low light drills. I think if you're trained enough and put your mind in the right mindset you'll line them up like second nature when the time comes that you'll have to use them.

I love lasers as much as the next guy(I've got several) but I'll have to agree with Dean on this one. Running a laser on for the duration of the incident(i.e. someone breaking in) is a dead give away for your position in a home.

Now, it can and most of the times will help you if you're in a room and the guy is down a hall perpendicular to the room. If he sees a laser from the room just ahead, chances are he knows what's at the end of it and would probably run away. Someone may want to press their luck(you never know).

However, one of the best ways to not give away your position in your own home is to use a tac light, in short bursts of light on the ground or along the wall. Because if a intruder can see where the lights origin is coming from, they will be able to home in on it's source alot easier.

If I'm proceeding through my home using .5 sec light bursts on the ground/wall, I can still manuver and advance on the intruder without giving away my position. This technique allows for multiple engagement scenerios. If your light is equiped with a "strobe" feature(now would be the time to engage it) because it's been proven that in low to zero light, strobes will disable the intruders vision and they cannot tell whether you're advancing on them or retreating(it alters the visual perception to the mind, think also deer in headlights, it will confuse their vision).

Lastly, about using a caliber and hitting the dog or family or neighbor. I think it's wise to choose what will best suit your situation. For me, I don't have children to worry about but neighbors are a bit of a concern. My dog actually is part of my solution to a intruder problem. For me, my dog is my first line of defense against an intruder. With my dog's superior hearing to my mine and night vision, she's going to warn me and will assist come time to engage a intruder(I'm not going to be one of those people that will lock up my dog, I'll need all the help I can get waking up in the dead of the night). Which is why I choose to use my .45 auto with night sights and tactical light. Using a shotgun I most certainly will hit my dog as she's attacking and slowing the intruder down. So I have to use a bullet, instead of shot.

The sad part is, our guards dogs(people that have them) will unfortunately feel the brunt of the initial attack from an intruder and may come under attack as well. However, for me as long as my dog can give me the precious few moments to zero in on the intruder I can do my best to eliminate the threat quickly and hoping my dog isn't injured in the process.

I know all of that sounds like I put to much thought into it and have gone way overboard but in my opinion it must be done, if you're going to survive a home invasion in the middle of the night. Because the idea is to stop the threat from the intruder and not become a victim to be filed away as just another statistic.

[Fly boy]

Got it, that's why I have the shotty chambered with light for the house also!

This is JUST for carry outside the home, using anything other than a shotgun for home protection is a huge risk. Drywall doesn't stop hollowpoints! I can't imagine the feeling of hitting the dog, your kids, the neighbor etc etc. Everyone needs to understand the tools for each application.


Hollowpoints go through dryway, but frag rounds don't :D

[PROFLYER]

Maybe I'm not being clear enough. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT HOME PROTECTION!

He said CARRY GUN, who the hell carries around their house? It's meant for out of the home protection. If someone approaches you in a hostile situation in the dark your sights are worthless, I don't care if you practice "lining them up" or not, you can't do it while trying to react to whatever the situation is, most people don't even know how many times they fired!

You guys do as you wish, I just hope I don't hear about you killing someone because you didn't know which way your gun was essentially pointed when you tried to defend yourself. You're responsible for that bullet, know where it's going. A laser gives INSTANT flight path information, I watch people miss a silhouette in the range all day long trying to draw and fire using their sights. With a laser you can focus on your TARGET, not your sights, and see that the dot in his chest is where that bullet is going.

[lightspeed]

Sig SP2340 when out. Cheap, accurate, light easy to maintain and reliable. No safety..but what do you need one of those for anyway..lol. Used to be a Glock fan but this does the same thing for less.

[The Black Knight]

He said CARRY GUN, who the hell carries around their house? It's meant for out of the home protection. If someone approaches you in a hostile situation in the dark your sights are worthless, I don't care if you practice "lining them up" or not, you can't do it while trying to react to whatever the situation is, most people don't even know how many times they fired!

You guys do as you wish, I just hope I don't hear about you killing someone because you didn't know which way your gun was essentially pointed when you tried to defend yourself. You're responsible for that bullet, know where it's going. A laser gives INSTANT flight path information, I watch people miss a silhouette in the range all day long trying to draw and fire using their sights. With a laser you can focus on your TARGET, not your sights, and see that the dot in his chest is where that bullet is going.
Maybe you need to get to the range more. Because I practice almost 75-80% of my range time on draw and fire from the holster techniques. The rest of the time I work on newer techniques that I end up incorporating into a holster draw. I work on failure drill(2 to the chest, 1 to the head) strictly one shot one kill(to the head), double tap drills to the chest or head(head is tricky and you'll almost never need a double tap to the head but hey it's fun to practice). So it can be done and it's done by many many people that I've seen.

So I don't know where you get your statistics from but apparently everyone you shoot with/around, can't hit the broad side of a barn. I can't think of the last time I was out at the range and had a round miss my target. It also helps if you've got a real target to shoot at, try these(my personal preference and favs):http://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=TGSB-1

Granted, I've had rounds miss the chest/thoracic section(ending up in either the stomach or shoulder areas) and a ones outside the cranio-ocular region but still a head shot nontheless.

And while I'm not piling on because you're a fellow gun owner, I do recommend that you do some more range time(something that we all can never get enough of) and actually practice draw and sight techniques. Instinct Shooting is all find and dandy(but you've got to have the basics of front sight down first).

I love lasers and think they are great(who doesn't love gadgets). But if you are placing your money on the fact that you've got a laser and not relying on good old fashioned skill and hand eye coordination you might be in for a bit of a surprise.

Also lasers do not give instant flight path at all times. Not matter how zeroed in you are the bullet will deviate in flight path from the lasers path. Even with something as finely tuned as the Crimson Trace grip sights, they only state that from the factory they are bore sighted to 50ft, after that if you want to zero in on something farther it's up to you to adjust. But remember once set to a longer distance they will be off at a shorter distance. It's give and take, lasers can't always be spot on a 15 yards(or whatever you set them at), however your sights will put the bullet wherever you aim every time.

[PROFLYER]

Maybe you need to get to the range more. Because I practice almost 75-80% of my range time on draw and fire from the holster techniques. The rest of the time I work on newer techniques that I end up incorporating into a holster draw. I work on failure drill(2 to the chest, 1 to the head) strictly one shot one kill(to the head), double tap drills to the chest or head(head is tricky and you'll almost never need a double tap to the head but hey it's fun to practice). So it can be done and it's done by many many people that I've seen.

So I don't know where you get your statistics from but apparently everyone you shoot with/around, can't hit the broad side of a barn. I can't think of the last time I was out at the range and had a round miss my target. It also helps if you've got a real target to shoot at, try these(my personal preference and favs):http://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=TGSB-1

Granted, I've had rounds miss the chest/thoracic section(ending up in either the stomach or shoulder areas) and a ones outside the cranio-ocular region but still a head shot nontheless.

And while I'm not piling on because you're a fellow gun owner, I do recommend that you do some more range time(something that we all can never get enough of) and actually practice draw and sight techniques. Instinct Shooting is all find and dandy(but you've got to have the basics of front sight down first).

I love lasers and think they are great(who doesn't love gadgets). But if you are placing your money on the fact that you've got a laser and not relying on good old fashioned skill and hand eye coordination you might be in for a bit of a surprise.

Also lasers do not give instant flight path at all times. Not matter how zeroed in you are the bullet will deviate in flight path from the lasers path. Even with something as finely tuned as the Crimson Trace grip sights, they only state that from the factory they are bore sighted to 50ft, after that if you want to zero in on something farther it's up to you to adjust. But remember once set to a longer distance they will be off at a shorter distance. It's give and take, lasers can't always be spot on a 15 yards(or whatever you set them at), however your sights will put the bullet wherever you aim every time.

You must feel big because this is the interwebz and you think you can challenge my skills, and that of the SEALS, Marine RECON and other special ops guys that I shoot with because, again, this is the interwebz and you can diligently toss around a bunch of sappy words.

Feel free to come down to Loveland anytime, I'll pick up the range fee and these guys who do this stuff for a living (read blackwater type guys) will show you how it's done. They miss, I miss, we practice panic drills where you're surprised and a target then is presented in some random part of the range. You can plink all you want in your cute little lane that I'm sure is reserved with a name plate, draw all you want, but when it's an alley and he's just jumpped from behind a dumpster sights are harder to find...these guys have been on the front lines and have learned to trust their equipment, even if you think it's a cute gadget. You ever been there?

My only point was that most panic and can't find their sights, thus the reason so many suggest a crimson trace for a true street carry pistol. It's easier to learn to focus INSTINCTIVELY on your target and know that within 10 yards you laser is accurate enough, no matter the refereced variances in shot position or manufacturing standards. Instictive shooting is target acquisition based, perhaps YOU need to read more. At 50' you're getting the electric chair because a defense shooting is within 10 yards....

[The Black Knight]

You must feel big because this is the interwebz and you think you can challenge my skills, and that of the SEALS, Marine RECON and other special ops guys that I shoot with because, again, this is the interwebz and you can diligently toss around a bunch of sappy words.

Feel free to come down to Loveland anytime, I'll pick up the range fee and these guys who do this stuff for a living (read blackwater type guys) will show you how it's done. They miss, I miss, we practice panic drills where you're surprised and a target then is presented in some random part of the range. You can plink all you want in your cute little lane that I'm sure is reserved with a name plate, draw all you want, but when it's an alley and he's just jumpped from behind a dumpster sights are harder to find...these guys have been on the front lines and have learned to trust their equipment, even if you think it's a cute gadget. You ever been there?

My only point was that most panic and can't find their sights, thus the reason so many suggest a crimson trace for a true street carry pistol. It's easier to learn to focus INSTINCTIVELY on your target and know that within 10 yards you laser is accurate enough, no matter the refereced variances in shot position or manufacturing standards. Instictive shooting is target acquisition based, perhaps YOU need to read more. At 50' you're getting the electric chair because a defense shooting is within 10 yards....
That's kind of what I figured, you'd get butthurt because this is the internet and you're pissed because someone doesn't subscribe to your point of view on shooting.

I'm sure the SEALs, Marine RECON and others you shoot with are all bad ass, and I never challenged your skills or theirs. What I did comment on was you challenging the skills of others, whom YOU've never shot with. So go on and make your assertations all you like and file everyone in the "idiot or un-trained file" because they don't train with or shoot the exact same way as you do.

The name plate on my very own shooting lane was good too. I needed a laugh and that did it. And I never said lasers were "cute" gadgets either, just gadgets(meaning something cool i.e. tech type stuff) so don't get butthurt about the "gadget" comment either.

And yeah, I know about instinctive shooting and how it works, so NO I don't need to go read up on it again.

Also you do realize the 50ft comment was DIRECT from Crimson Trace themselves. I don't know how many articles or shows I've seen where Crimson Trace has been showcased and the reps talk about 50ft bore sight. Also do the math dude, the difference between 10yd and 16yd is 20ft. Not a big gap, so no you won't be getting the electric chair. While the accepted norm for urban confrontations is 10 yards or less, to engage someone at 50ft or 16 yards would not be totally out of the questions.

So tell me something Mr. Tactical Battalion Commando Commander, the average altercation takes place in 10 yards or less(Usually at distances of 3 to 7 yards) and it takes the average assailant to cover that distance in roughly 1.5 seconds. Is your gun just going to magically appear in your hand with your laser on and ready to rock?? Or are you going to have to un-holster your pistol and attempt some sort of half assed aim just barely clearing your holster, because of course you've got a laser to save you???

It takes the average joe CCW close to 2 or 3 seconds to move their clothing out of the way and un-holster and aim. So even at we'll call it 3 seconds(because recognizing the threat will take a portion of this time), you're still a good .5 seconds behind the bad guy who is rushing you(possibly with a weapon).

And even the guys who I've seen who do train with lasers, still go through the motions of, releving clothing, unholster, draw and aim. While the laser has given them a faster split second advantage in a scenerio where they are already behind the clock, they still aim. That's what I'm getting at. You're claiming that "just point the laser and the bullet goes there and you're done". Dude, not everyone is Wild Bill Hickok with a quick draw.

[Fly boy]

Can you guys bicker in PM's please?

I was just curious to what type of sub-compact/compact would be a good suggestion.


I am leaning more towards the Walther PPS, the XD-9 was a little wider then I liked.

[The Black Knight]

Sorry man, didn't mean to hijack your thread.

Which XD did you try out? Regular XD or XD(M)? I've got the XD(M) in 9mm and this gun is the tits. I love it and really am pleased with it. Finally got my XD Gear Up promo magazines last week as well(only took 75 days and several calls to Springfield).

If you're not the biggest guy, then an XD(M) might be a little hard to conceal, unless you run a sholder holster rig. Then you can just about conceal anything. On the hip is harder, just dress for CCW.

p.s.
I think the CSC forum is pretty tame compared to a couple other forums I'm on. The XDTalk one is great, those people bomb each other into oblivion and usually with clean and intelligent language too. Rarely will you see someone just meltdown and swear. Again didn't mean to hijack, just having a spirited conversation with PRO.

[Fly boy]

Its ok. I know I opened up a can of worms.

It just said XD-9 Sub-compact. It was thinner then the S&W MP compact. I am going to be using a IWB holster so smaller or thinner, the better.

[PROFLYER]

I'll un-hi-jack this too. I wasn't trying to get into a pissing match, I never said that basic skills weren't necessary FIRST. They are more necessary than not, my point simply stated that for HIS carry gun, look into the crimson trace, if anything its extra reassurance that you're shooting in the right direction!

All the other scenario stuff is just fluff, know where you bullet is going is the first thing to be worried about, if a laser helps (which is does for many) use one. Learning to shoot and the basics of front sight should be skills acquired long before you even think of carrying a firearm.

I have an XD9 3" (sub compact) and it's one of the nicest out of the box guns I've ever shot. A glock in comparison will "feel" like it's not made as well, some love them, if you shoot them both side by side you'll see what I'm talking about.

Who was melting down and swearing? Did I slip?

[The Black Knight]

I'll un-hi-jack this too. I wasn't trying to get into a pissing match, I never said that basic skills weren't necessary FIRST. They are more necessary than not, my point simply stated that for HIS carry gun, look into the crimson trace, if anything its extra reassurance that you're shooting in the right direction!

All the other scenario stuff is just fluff, know where you bullet is going is the first thing to be worried about, if a laser helps (which is does for many) use one. Learning to shoot and the basics of front sight should be skills acquired long before you even think of carrying a firearm.

I have an XD9 3" (sub compact) and it's one of the nicest out of the box guns I've ever shot. A glock in comparison will "feel" like it's not made as well, some love them, if you shoot them both side by side you'll see what I'm talking about.

Who was melting down and swearing? Did I slip?
I wasn't referring to you, but about the XD Forum I'm on. Those people over there really let each other have it. Although it's very classy smack but you do get the rogue thread where someone will meltdown(though rarely).

I was saying CSC is pretty laid back when it comes to chatting and discussions. Other forums(usually have worldwide users who participate)will sometimes bomb away at each other in threads. We've got heated discussions but none where it's a flat out verbal/internet assault smackdown HAHAHA.

I'll have to concur on your thoughts about Glocks and comparos to other guns. Glocks are badass guns and set the bar way back, however for me there are other pistols out there that I prefer much more. I think Glock started to believe their own BS and just produced a very quality pistol but no upgrades(not saying Glocks aren't upgraded, just seems very run of the mill with most Glock models).

Only Glock I've ever wanted was the Glock 20(10mm). Absolutely love the way that gun fits in my hand(s) and can tell that I would enjoy shooting it. I don't get that feeling from other Glock models. The G17(9mm) isn't bad either.

[Warren]

I have an xd subcompact .40. I love it. It shoots great is small enough to hide easily and seems to be really well made. I have a crossbreed supertuck holster with a little custom trim work done to it and it makes the gun easy to conceal no matter what I wear. My advice would be to find a gun that fits your hand as well as your concealment needs. I picked up a lot of guns before I decided on the xd. The xd just seems like it was made to fit my hand.

[wulf]

Yeah small of the back can break your spine if you fall on the hard object.

Night sites work, if you want the arguably best gun fighting sights get XS big dots.

Frag rounds will still go through drywall.

M&P and the Glocks are the most reliable of the choices. XD 9mm are more reliable than the rest of the xd series but still not what i'd choose as a primary gun.

I've ranted about the XD's before, made in croatia the parts supply is hit or miss. You HAVE to send the gun back to the factory for most of the simplest repairs i.e. extractor replacement so you could be out of a carry gun for a week assuming overnight shipments. Then there's the random lock ups that they can experience, the two peice guide rod can jam mid way through the firing cycle, the solution is to beat it open with a hammer then feild strip it and clean it. Then deburr the guide rod. Sad because is liked the XD's feel.

I've literally plowed my glock through the dirt for about 20 feet and it came up with a gritty heavy trigger pull but it fired just fine.

As far as CCW location and holster type? That's VERY personal, what works fine for some, probly won't work for you. Most people who've been carrying for any amount of time have tried plenty of holsters. You can find alot of lightly used holsters at discount prices from people who just weren't able to get it to work for them.

Consider training a bunch, there's lots of good instructors that are here in this state, and plenty that travel through.

Best of luck

[RajunCajun]

I know all of that sounds like I put to much thought into it and have gone way overboard but in my opinion it must be done, if you're going to survive a home invasion in the middle of the night. Because the idea is to stop the threat from the intruder and not become a victim to be filed away as just another statistic.

Right on bro! I agree with pretty much everything you said. I'm a fan of the Sig Pro .40 and like the Glock as well. The 40 has plenty of knockdown but a bit lighter than the .45. I'm not worried about not having a 9mm with 16 +1 rounds cuz like BK said, 2-3 shots is usually all you need, if you have time for that. I have mine loaded with Hydros as well so even if it's not a direct chest/head shot, it'll still cauze enough damage to let me GTFO. If you need more, you're in a gunfight and should get an AR or GTFO, or quit watching so many movies. I have a simple in-the-pants holster and carry right handed strongside. I guess if I fell on it, it would hurt but it's not on my spine so I think that's a little safer. I wouldn't put mine or the lives of my family on the accuracy of a laser, but would trust my own skills instead. Like BK, I dig them, just think they are more of a novelty than reliable. I guess they could be really handy in some situation but hinder your concealment in others

Ok, that's bout it. Have fun picking out your gear but, knowing how to USE what you have is more important than WHAT you have, if that makes any sence.