Pirates pwned

[Shea]

A much as I disagree with him on a whole host of issues, props to Obama for green-lighting letting the Seals do what they do.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090413/ap_on_re_af/piracy;_ylt=Ai3ZXVHvSdsTAUu_mIYDO4kDW7oF

Heard on the radio though that the remaining pirate was being flown to the US to be tried. Anybody know what the piracy laws are? Thought the captain of a ship had the authority to try a pirate...hang him from the yardarm and all that.

[MetaLord 9]

I think the rules are so old the probably involve punishment ala death by hanging or walking the plank.

[Zach929rr]

Bracing themselves on a rolling warship in choppy seas, U.S. Navy snipers took down a trio of Somali pirates with single shots, freeing the American sea captain being held at gunpoint

Wow. Go Seals.

[salsashark]

Keelhaul him!

Unfortunately (for him), the only ship available is the Nimitz...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/USS_Nimitz_1997.jpg/290px-USS_Nimitz_1997.jpg

[Shea]

Keelhaul him!

Unfortunately (for him), the only ship available is the Nimitz...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/USS_Nimitz_1997.jpg/290px-USS_Nimitz_1997.jpg

lol, ouch

[dirkterrell]

A much as I disagree with him on a whole host of issues, props to Obama for green-lighting letting the Seals do what they do.


I was watching "This Week" yesterday morning and they were talking about the piracy issue and this hostage situation in particular. Several of the talking heads were going on about how we need to set up a legal framework to deal with these things, yada yada yada. I was thinking "A SEAL team would provide a good solution." Paul Krugman was, not surprisingly, taking the position that piracy was a minor irritant to the commercial shippers and this was just a cost of doing business, comparing it to muggings. Newt Gingrich was noticeably perturbed at that stance.

Dirk

[Devaclis]

The only problem now is that the pirates still have 40+ ships hostage and their are threatening retaliation. How about those countries who do not have SEAL teams but have their own people being held for ransom?

[Shea]

I was watching "This Week" yesterday morning and they were talking about the piracy issue and this hostage situation in particular. Several of the talking heads were going on about how we need to set up a legal framework to deal with these things, yada yada yada. I was thinking "A SEAL team would provide a good solution." Paul Krugman was, not surprisingly, taking the position that piracy was a minor irritant to the commercial shippers and this was just a cost of doing business, comparing it to muggings. Newt Gingrich was noticeably perturbed at that stance.

Dirk

Yeah, for some reason taking a strong stance and punching someone back is considered "wrong" with these people. Every time I hear those people talk all I can do is picture a certain person, getting of a plane with a piece a paper in his hand and proclaiming peace in our time.

Be unafraid to use the sword and you will know peace. Cower at the thought of violence and you will know nothing but. Or to put it another way "Speak softly and carry a big stick" - TR

[Shea]

The only problem now is that the pirates still have 40+ ships hostage and their are threatening retaliation. How about those countries who do not have SEAL teams but have their own people being held for ransom?

You know, I think those operators would be more then willing to help out.

[dirkterrell]

The only problem now is that the pirates still have 40+ ships hostage and their are threatening retaliation. How about those countries who do not have SEAL teams but have their own people being held for ransom?

The pirates do it because people pay. If you let them continue unimpeded, they will eventually rule the seas. I agree that there is a cost of doing business but it has to be in enforcing the law, not paying ransoms to thugs. Allow the ships to arm and protect themselves without fear of being taken to court by scumbags. If you come within the reach of a Ma Deuce on a ship without permission, you suffer the consequences.

Dirk

[asp_125]

Go Navy!! :up: I'm sure there's a market for soldiers of fortune, to deal with pirates for other countries without SEAL teams.

[Devaclis]

I am not disagreeing. I am letting you know that people who have no problems with kidnapping and embezzlement and who now have had their partners killed by the USA will have NO issues with killing currently held hostages to prove they mean business.

[salsashark]

The pirates do it because people pay. If you let them continue unimpeded, they will eventually rule the seas. I agree that there is a cost of doing business but it has to be in enforcing the law, not paying ransoms to thugs. Allow the ships to arm and protect themselves without fear of being taken to court by scumbags. If you come within the reach of a Ma Deuce on a ship without permission, you suffer the consequences.

Dirk

Again, an area where the insurance companies tread all over reason and logic.

We were discussing the idea of arming these ships and allowing them to defend themselves. Unfortunately, the shipping companies' insurance carriers have all but defeated this notion by making it so expensive to insure boats doing this that the carriers would rather pay ransoms. The carriers are finding it cheaper to pay the pirates than the insurers... kind of makes you wonder who the real criminals are...

[Airreed]

Go Navy!! :up: I'm sure there's a market for soldiers of fortune, to deal with pirates for other countries without SEAL teams.

Sounds like Blackwater is about to get a new contract!

[dirkterrell]

I am not disagreeing. I am letting you know that people who have no problems with kidnapping and embezzlement and who now have had their partners killed by the USA will have NO issues with killing currently held hostages to prove they mean business.

So what's the answer to the problem of piracy?

Dirk

[MikeG]

A much as I disagree with him on a whole host of issues, props to Obama for green-lighting letting the Seals do what they do.


:drink: Nope, according to the reports Obama had nothing to do with this.

"The pirates were pointing AK-47s at Capt. Richard Phillips and he was in "imminent danger" of being killed when the commander of the nearby USS Bainbridge made the split-second decision to order his men to shoot, Vice Adm. Bill Gortney said." The Skipper of the USS Bainbridge made the call to shoot. Navy Seal Snipers dropped them...

[InlineSIX24]

Those snipers have severe talent. Three single shots from ship to ship being bounced around with deteriorating weather.

[Mental]

:drink: Nope, according to the reports Obama had nothing to do with this.

"The pirates were pointing AK-47s at Capt. Richard Phillips and he was in "imminent danger" of being killed when the commander of the nearby USS Bainbridge made the split-second decision to order his men to shoot, Vice Adm. Bill Gortney said." The Skipper of the USS Bainbridge made the call to shoot. Navy Seal Snipers dropped them...


You need to re-read the reports. Our Commander In Chief sent those forces with the edict of "Do what you need to do."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_piracy_obama


WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama twice authorized the military to rescue a U.S. captain who was being held by Somali pirates and whose life appeared to be at risk, administration officials said after Sunday's rescue.
The Defense Department twice asked Obama for permission to use military force to rescue Capt. Richard Phillips from a lifeboat off the Somali coast. Obama first gave permission around 8 p.m. Friday, and upgraded it at 9:20 a.m. Saturday. Officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations said the second order was to encompass more military personnel and equipment that arrived in the Indian Ocean to engage the pirates.


In other words, he understood that he was basically letting slip the dogs of war. You do not manage an organization of that nature once they come off the leash. You trust in their training, disipline and experience. In this instance, and with all instances where warriors are not micro-managed, they did their job effectively and professionally. They saw a life being threatened, and reacted under their direction to protect.

On the larger issue at hand, I personally don;t give two shits about other nations and their ability to deal with pirates. If those folks see the Stars and Stripes flying on the bow of a ship, they had better learn to steer clear. Of course a few of them will get ambitious and try this again, but even a wolf learns to aviod traps.

The US is not the only nation with very capable and well-trained operatives. CIS (Russia), The Boys from Heyford (British SAS), Italian Carabinari Spec ops, the Polish have an excellent organization, the Spanish, of course the Aussies, China, S Korea, Indian Commandos are pretty vicous, most of your former Soviet states, Chzecs, Croatia, etc etc etc. There is a way to make piracy very painful.

As referenced earlier, they are doing this becuase it works. They get paid and come home as heros. If you want it to stop, make it not work.

[t_jolt]

And if any of you think our long range high precision teams are good. these guys have everyone beat. British SAS. They have the most advanced and intense training for snipers. No one can top them. hell they could make a 5 year old shoot better then most.

[~Barn~]

:drink: Nope, according to the reports Obama had nothing to do with this.

Mental already Ninja'd my reply, but here is another article that outlines exactly what is known about The Presidents involvement in all of this. And for all intents and purposes, the US Military doesn't really do anything of any international significance, w/out approval and orders from the POTUS.

Obama twice approved force to rescue hostage. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30182256)

Yet another reason why I like this cat. He may seem like just another smooth talking politician, without much substance. But give him a reason, he'll make some very quiet and mostly unpublicized decisions, to have you fucked up. :up:

[Devaclis]

I would say that you need to resolve the issue in the country of origin, not on the high seas. Somalia is not even a real country anymore as the government has no control. Why is it that we have not invaded their country for these acts of terrorism? Why have we not tried to force a democratic government them? Maybe because we have nothing to gain from it? Hell, some of these pirates are taking in $100 million a year in ransom money. Somali women are flocking to the ports to marry them. The young kids have NO other route to take that will allow them to support their families so they turn to piracy too. At VERY young ages.

I don't think killing the pirates that take Americans hostage and then ignoring the other hostages is the right way to approach this. I DO think that action needs to be taken at the origin of the problem. The Somali government.

[~Barn~]

I'm glad we saved this guy. That being said, I still do not want us to be World Police.

[utsv650]

TEAM AMERICA --FCUK YEAH! --- and i think its "Xe" now.. not blackwater... right?

[Canuck]

And if any of you think our long range high precision teams are good. these guys have everyone beat. British SAS. They have the most advanced and intense training for snipers. No one can top them. hell they could make a 5 year old shoot better then most.

True. But let's not forget that the record for farthest confirmed kill was done by the Canadian Special Forces in Afganistan.
The French commandos have already conducted a few ship raids against Pirate held ships with pretty sucessful results. I believe that they only lost one hostage in the past several months of conducting these raids.

[VFR]

The only problem now is that the pirates still have 40+ ships hostage and their are threatening retaliation. How about those countries who do not have SEAL teams but have their own people being held for ransom?


They can borrow ours for the right price

[Sortarican]

I take back some of the things I've said about Navy Squids.


So what's the answer to the problem of piracy?

Dirk

A couple more snipers and a good supply of ammo?

Personally I would have liked to have seen Iraq handled this way.

[dirkterrell]

I would say that you need to resolve the issue in the country of origin, not on the high seas. Somalia is not even a real country anymore as the government has no control. Why is it that we have not invaded their country for these acts of terrorism? Why have we not tried to force a democratic government them? Maybe because we have nothing to gain from it? Hell, some of these pirates are taking in $100 million a year in ransom money. Somali women are flocking to the ports to marry them. The young kids have NO other route to take that will allow them to support their families so they turn to piracy too. At VERY young ages.


I recall the last time we went to help the Somalis, all they did was shoot down Blackhawks (because the politicians neutered our military people and tied their hands, feet, heads and everything else behind their backs with ridiculous rules of engagement) and drag the bodies of US servicemen in the streets to cheering crowds. They chose their side.

Dirk

[Devaclis]

We should just give up then. We would not want to have to make hard decisions. We are Americans, we will be OK.

[t_jolt]

True. But let's not forget that the record for farthest confirmed kill was done by the Canadian Special Forces in Afganistan.
The French commandos have already conducted a few ship raids against Pirate held ships with pretty sucessful results. I believe that they only lost one hostage in the past several months of conducting these raids.

Yes, but we both know that this the farthest we know about. I believe his was 1.5 miles. But props to him. for wind adjustment etc... anything over 500 yards starts to get a little hairy. :)

[dirkterrell]

We should just give up then. We would not want to have to make hard decisions. We are Americans, we will be OK.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do something in Somalia but that I don't feel much sympathy for the Somali people after what they did. They made their choice and they get to live with it. And if we do decide to go back in, we'd better let the military do what they need to do and not have the politicians making military decisions. There is a rich history of the dangers of that.

Dirk

[Devaclis]

You go in with a different goal than you did the first time. If not, you change your trade routes, cut off all ties with those that deal with Somalia, and hope they rot, learn, or are taken over by another country. Take away their source or piracy for crying out loud. Or you can be a Republican and nuke and pave the entire country.

[TFOGGuys]

Anyone else here feeling we should be good humanitarians, and donate several million dollars worth of American technology(read:cruise missiles) to the Somali ports that harbor these scumbags? "Look at me, I'm a pirate "hero" and I just got my home port turned into a smoking crater, because I'm a dumbass and fucked with another American vessel". I bet their popular support in Somolia would evaporate in a hurry.....

[salsashark]

Honestly... I can't blame them for trying to make their lives better. If I lived in Somalia and piracy was the only means of eating, you bet I'd be trying to score a ship or 2.

From a defensive view, I think it's ridiculous that the private companies protect their ships, then bitch and moan when they travel through these waters and get caught. It's all about the dollar. It's no surprise that the waters around Somalia are dangerous. These merchants continually travel close enough to the shore to get captured because they don't want to spend the money on fuel. The Indian Ocean's a big place, take the scenic route. They won't arm themselves because they don't want to spend the money on insurance.

[brennahm]

There are reports coming out of Mogadishu that they are pleading for help with the problem (House Africa committee chairman was there yesterday). Yes, the government there sucks. I'm not saying help them to be nice, help them to get this shit taken care of. Yeah, it sucked before, but this time we will make the rules (fingers crossed).

Many props to the snipers, and that captain was no pansy either, gotta hand it to him.

[Mental]

I recall the last time we went to help the Somalis, all they did was shoot down Blackhawks (because the politicians neutered our military people and tied their hands, feet, heads and everything else behind their backs with ridiculous rules of engagement) and drag the bodies of US servicemen in the streets to cheering crowds. They chose their side.

Dirk

Actually the problem was the forces were under the UN and their rules of engagement. Which as a Veteran of the UN I can tell you is the greatest wussification of armed forces short of making them wear tutus.

This was also the last time US armed forces were placed in whole under UN command. We still have US UN Observers, but you will not see a platoon or group or any large US force placed under those conditions again. This discusion got me into a very terse discussion with a Nigerian Lt and I almost punched him to prove his piont and mine.

But what the Somalis did with the bodies, yeah, that still strikes a very strong note in me.

But anyone who thinks we're not already involved in limited combat operations in Somilia is not paying attention. We haven't expanded it becuase our forces are tied up in other countries.

I got to see Micheal Durant speak with other folks from the Night Stalkers, and there are several active duty veterns of that conflict who would love to go back in there and settle a few scores. Given that the Pirates are saying we are their number 1 enemy, I say "Come get some."


...Many props to the snipers, and that captain was no pansy either, gotta hand it to him.
QFT

[MikeG]

You need to re-read the reports. Our Commander In Chief sent those forces with the edict of "Do what you need to do."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_piracy_obama



Seems like the Obama-bots will put the political spin on it, of course he sent the Navy in there, the Navy has been there. Personally I'd rather hear it from the Navy skipper i.e. the source

[brennahm]

The Navy was there, he gave the orders for special operators as I read it.

[rforsythe]

I am not disagreeing. I am letting you know that people who have no problems with kidnapping and embezzlement and who now have had their partners killed by the USA will have NO issues with killing currently held hostages to prove they mean business.

Hmm, yes and no. This situation was different - they chose to attack a US-flagged ship and take an American hostage onto their own vessel. Then they waved their dicks in the air (metaphorically) at the US Navy, thus pissing off a lot of highly-trained people that are particularly skilled at killing exactly who they mean to and getting folks out of sticky situations.

The US is likely not going to go in guns blazing to protect other countries' ships, as evidenced by the fact that we haven't really bothered to show force until now except for putting ships in the area. However perhaps other countries will choose to step up and get it done here now too. That said, until that happens, I think the pirates know these other ships are still fair game, and have probably learned from their fellow Darwin Award winner buddies to stay away from ours.

Piracy works because people are scared of angry dudes with guns, and hand over the cash. This generally works attacking commercial ships as well because they haven't really attacked another nation per se. I think if the pirates realized that the world is pretty well done with their shit and is just going to start killing them for sport they might find another line of work. Just my $0.02. There is a reason piracy died off a while ago, and it's because militaries declared open war on them.

Yeah I'm for justice, due process, blah blah. I'm also of the opinion that if you wave your gun in the air at unarmed civilians like some fucking high-seas cowboy outlaw, you might not like what comes flying in your direction by those charged with protecting the lives of others. Our guns are bigger. The problem seems to work itself out in my head, and really I just don't know why we haven't been shelling the living shit out of these pirate "mother ships" once in international waters. It isn't like they're out on a pleasure cruise.

One advantage here though is that the dramatic incline in piracy may help global warming!

[SamuraiX]

Yeah I'm for justice, due process, blah blah. I'm also of the opinion that if you wave your gun in the air at unarmed civilians like some fucking high-seas cowboy outlaw, you might not like what comes flying in your direction by those charged with protecting the lives of others.


:imwithstupid:

[MikeG]

I want to see a graph of the increase of pirates in relation to the release of Pirates of the Caribbean films

[Shea]

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg217/medli1/sealtshirt.gif?t=1239722388

[AetasMutuo]

Devaclis is correct. This problem will not be resolved on the open waters. This begins and ends in Somalia. A large show of force on the ocean will only act as a short term deterrent. Somalia makes more money off of piracy then they do with all legitimate factors of their GNP combined.

These people are poor in a way that makes poor Americans very wealthy by comparison.

[dirkterrell]

The Nuge had a few words about the situation:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=31445

Dirk

[~Barn~]

Great article by that guy.... Right up until the point where that war shi.... err.... commerce ship, actually does get overtaken, and in turn arms the pirates themselves.

I get his point though, and I do agree that being armed (to a certain degree) is prudent.

His prose was a little too much fairytale though, and not enough non-fiction. IMO, of course.

[Wintermute]

The problem is that Somalia is still a failed state. All these years, nobody wants to go in there and help, not that you can blame anybody after what happened to us.

Just like the heroin traders in Afghanistan, the pirates can act with impunity. And also just like Afghanistan, our old buddies Asshole Qaeda are coming on strong. So if we go in strong and vaporize the pirate's fancy new houses, AQ will flog the crap out of any collateral damage and get more local support.

It's a big shit sandwich the world has put off eating for years. With the economic meltdown and 2 wars, I expect we'll punt on it again. This would be a good one for Europe after they fucked us in the Blackhawk Down era.

[Wintermute]

Sorry Uncle Ted, from what I understand there's issues with most freighter insurance policies against arming the crew. Liability issues of untrained crews with automatic weapons.

Mercs are a possible answer. Hire Blackwater or Executive Outcomes and rotate heavily-armed 3-man teams onto ships through the area.

[Shea]

I think you're pretty on target Winter. Unfortunately Europe has even less political will to do anything then we do. Add to that the absolute decrepit shape their militaries are in and not much is going to happen.

[Mental]

Seems like the Obama-bots will put the political spin on it, of course he sent the Navy in there, the Navy has been there. Personally I'd rather hear it from the Navy skipper i.e. the source

So as I see it, you want to see a senior naval officer badmouth his current Commander In Chief? This isn't a politcal issue. Furthermore, military members are barred by the UCMJ from making statements of that nature. In fact commanders are not usually allowed to make any public statements about any operations or situations. Thats why every military base and operation has a Public Affairs officer.

[Devaclis]

As I was saying:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/14/obama.pirates/index.html

[brennahm]

Yeah, the pirates ARRRR shakin in their boots.


Bullshit.


They're still going (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103073020)

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Piracy cannot be tolerated. Reduce the shipping lane in that area to a narrow, easily patrolled corridor, get a multi-national military presence there and destroy any hostile ships and kill all the pirates and use their dead bodies as chum for the sharks. Problem solved.

[Horsman]

Those snipers have severe talent. Three single shots from ship to ship being bounced around with deteriorating weather.

You bet they are...
Several Variables:
1) Wind Speed
2) + Range
3) Moving Targets on the boat
4) Two moving platforms(boat to boat) since it is in the water

not an easy shot...

[Wintermute]

That, and 1 of the shots was through a window.

Anybody know if it was closed? That would be even more incredible.

[GixxerCarrie]

You bet they are...
Several Variables:
1) Wind Speed
2) + Range
3) Moving Targets on the boat
4) Two moving platforms(boat to boat) since it is in the water

not an easy shot...

Did you used to be a NAVY SEAL? Or just a good shot? lol!:)

[Horsman]

Did you used to be a NAVY SEAL? Or just a good shot? lol!:)

Nope, but damn good enough to shoot yer eye out with my Red Rider!!!
http://homepage.mac.com/rmansfield/thislamp/files/page0_blog_entry204_1.jpg

[dirkterrell]

http://www.boulder.swri.edu/%7Eterrell/images/navy.jpg

Dirk

[Mental]

that is awesome.

[Slo]

Shooting into a closed window.....accurate with a supersonic round to about 3', other variables play into as well. ;) I would just like the see the glass fly out of the back of the pirates head following the round.

[~Barn~]

What I like about the picture, is that he's using (I think) a Barrett .50 to do the job.

Not that this is how it went down with the pirate sniping situation of course (they probably used PSG1's) but even if you missed with that fitty-cal round, you would probably kill the person anyway, if you were within a few inches. :lol:

[Slo]

Yeah while I was in the Marines, friggin *EDIT* (not NATO rules thanks for the reminder Jim) Geneva Convention declared shooting any person with a .50 was considered inhumane and was banned. I know some situations back in Somalia due to rules of engagement might had tested this BS rule, but not sure if it was ever changed or modified.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Yeah while I was in the Marines, friggin NATO rules declared shooting any person with a .50 was considered inhumane and was banned. I know some situations back in Somalia due to rules of engagement might had tested this BS rule, but not sure if it was ever changed or modified.
Are you serious? That blows. Piss on the NATO rules. You use the best weapon for the job, and from all I've been told, the .50 makes the best sniper rifle. I quick kill with a .50 is a lot more humane that death by and incindary (napalm, etc.).

[TFOGGuys]

Yeah while I was in the Marines, friggin NATO rules declared shooting any person with a .50 was considered inhumane and was banned. I know some situations back in Somalia due to rules of engagement might had tested this BS rule, but not sure if it was ever changed or modified.

.50s are supposed to be used for destruction of equipment and supplies only, according to the Geneva Convention. Of course, things such as helmets, eyeglasses, collar insignia, uniform buttons, and belt buckles would all count as "equipment"....:devious:

[SaShWhO]

.

[VFR]

You bet they are...
Several Variables:
1) Wind Speed
2) + Range
3) Moving Targets on the boat
4) Two moving platforms(boat to boat) since it is in the water

not an easy shot...

Also darkness

[Slo]

.50s are supposed to be used for destruction of equipment and supplies only, according to the Geneva Convention. Of course, things such as helmets, eyeglasses, collar insignia, uniform buttons, and belt buckles would all count as "equipment"....:devious:

Blah, brainfart, it was geneva convention, not nato rules...

Friend of mine from 1/9 went to Somalia and was telling me about some guys sniping at them through buildings, but rules of engagement were strict on not shooting any un-armed and not shooting at you.

So situation was there "was" a guy that would run from building to building, no weapon in hand (the weapons were already placed in the buildings) and would pop shots at them as they came down the streets. Needless to say, there were some big holes in a couple buildings, no more person popping shots at them.

[InlineSIX24]

I'm not sure how a carefully placed .50 from a sniper is less humane than an Apache using a 30mm chain gun on some guy running across a field. :dunno:

[Slo]

Not sure either, maybe something stupid to do with one being and area target weapon vs point target weapon, haha.....

Either way, your not putting holes in anyone, just blowing apart bodies....

[Canuck]

Here's a CBC program on the Canadian Sniper Team in Afghanistan and Rob Furlong (the current record holder). They use the McMillan TAC-50; to which they help develop, probably the best accurate .50 cal in use currently.
Pretty interesting.

1st part...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2knT8RwxKA&feature=related

2nd part...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q76G7F4dV8&feature=related

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I recall the last time we went to help the Somalis, all they did was shoot down Blackhawks (because the politicians neutered our military people and tied their hands, feet, heads and everything else behind their backs with ridiculous rules of engagement) and drag the bodies of US servicemen in the streets to cheering crowds. They chose their side.

Dirk
+1000

What a waste of time, $$, and LIVES that was. I've come to the conclusion that certain areas of the world will always be mired in savagery and bloodshed, and cannot be saved.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg217/medli1/sealtshirt.gif?t=1239722388
Sweet!

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

The Nuge had a few words about the situation:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=31445

Dirk
"And so, on top of the ones fore and aft is mounted a .Ma Deuce .50 caliber machinegun with 10,000 rounds, protecting our freedom one half-inch at a time.":)

[Horsman]

What I like about the picture, is that he's using (I think) a Barrett .50 to do the job.

Not that this is how it went down with the pirate sniping situation of course (they probably used PSG1's) but even if you missed with that fitty-cal round, you would probably kill the person anyway, if you were within a few inches. :lol:


Correct M-82 :) fitty would knock the skinny fitty feet off the dingy... :)

http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~terrell/images/navy.jpg

[TFOGGuys]

I'm not sure how a carefully placed .50 from a sniper is less humane than an Apache using a 30mm chain gun on some guy running across a field. :dunno:

Besides, pirates are not signatories to the Geneva Convention, so we are not bound to honor the provisions. Light 'em Up! :sniper:

[~Barn~]

Being able to dismiss the provisions that others are not bound to, is easy.

Being able to honor the provisions that you have bound yourself to... That's what takes character.

Food for thought.

[Shea]

Being able to dismiss the provisions that others are not bound to, is easy.

Being able to honor the provisions that you have bound yourself to... That's what takes character.

Food for thought.

:imwithstupid:

However, self defense against people who are trying to do you harm is completely acceptable.

[~Barn~]

<snip...> self defense against people who are trying to do you harm is completely acceptable.

Oh, for sure! I would have gladly pulled the sniper trigger on Captain Jack Skinny myself.

I would have probably missed of course, and killed Captain Jack Hostage, but I'm just sayin'....

[Devaclis]

Here's a CBC program on the Canadian Sniper Team in Afghanistan and Rob Furlong (the current record holder). They use the McMillan TAC-50; to which they help develop, probably the best accurate .50 cal in use currently.
Pretty interesting.

1st part...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2knT8RwxKA&feature=related

2nd part...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q76G7F4dV8&feature=related


We get it. You are Canadian, and proud.

;)

[Shea]

Captain Jack Skinny

lol

[TFOGGuys]

Being able to dismiss the provisions that others are not bound to, is easy.

Being able to honor the provisions that you have bound yourself to... That's what takes character.

Food for thought.

I'm not saying we should play down to their level, but we should not expect them to play up to ours. When they attacked civilian shipping on the open seas, they forfeited any right to clothe themselves in the protection afforded to soldiers. They are at that point common criminals, and should be handled accordingly. When a bank robber crosses the line and threatens a hostage, police snipers are generally given the green light to fire at will, so why should Somali pirates be given any greater consideration?

[~Barn~]

But Jim.... Just because the "rules of war" say that engaging an enemy with a .50 caliber rifle round, or other inapproprate arms, is generally considered as being a no-no, this is a far cry from any sort of "protection" afforded to soldiers. If anything, I consider it to be an decree of respect in some fashion. I don't think there is any sort of parallel between what you just posted now, and your earlier "light 'em up" post. :think:

Yeah, the pirates were criminals, and yeah, their deaths were necessary and just.

Your earlier post though, I think, was just trying to express your view, that the pirates' exclusion from war conventions, is justification that they can be (perhaps should be?) killed with weapons that effectively eviscerate their bodies.

I mean maybe that was just me, but that's the way I read it. That's why I replied with my post, that hinted at the morality of it all, not the criminality of it.

;)

[TFOGGuys]

Brandon, IMHO, the pirates gave up their breathing rights as soon as they attempted to board the Alabama. The actual mechanism of their death is not really important to me, as long as it's not morally reprehensible(i.e. Torture). The Geneva Convention is basically an agreement between signatories to mutually abandon certain acts of war, such as the use of chemical weapons, the use of white phosphorus as an anti-personnel weapon, and so forth. The reasoning being that if you agree not to use such measures against your opponent, he will not use them against you. As the pirates have placed themselves outside the law, it really doesn't matter to me it they take a .22 slug behind the ear, or a 40mm HE grenade to the sternum.

just my .02 (depreciated for the IRS)

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Brandon, IMHO, the pirates gave up their breathing rights as soon as they attempted to board the Alabama. The actual mechanism of their death is not really important to me, as long as it's not morally reprehensible(i.e. Torture). The Geneva Convention is basically an agreement between signatories to mutually abandon certain acts of war, such as the use of chemical weapons, the use of white phosphorus as an anti-personnel weapon, and so forth. The reasoning being that if you agree not to use such measures against your opponent, he will not use them against you. As the pirates have placed themselves outside the law, it really doesn't matter to me it they take a .22 slug behind the ear, or a 40mm HE grenade to the sternum.

just my 02 (depreciated for the IRS)
I agree. Pirates on the open seas have no loyalty to or protection under any country's flag. They operate completely outside the laws, and therefore should have zero protection under any of them, and/or the Geneva and/or NATO rules. I don't think we should take prisoners or allow surrender either. No mercy. Waste of money, and who's going to be responsible for them anyways? The same countries that allow their existance? Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[Horsman]

IMPORTANT NEWS.................

Different Kinda Pirates get busted... NO NOT BUTT PIRATES...

Hide yer torrents.....

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/04/17/sweden.piracy.jail/index.html

[TFOGGuys]

IMPORTANT NEWS.................

Different Kinda Pirates get busted... NO NOT BUTT PIRATES...

Hide yer torrents.....

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/04/17/sweden.piracy.jail/index.html

Saw that earlier on another source, but don't expect TPB to shut down anytime soon, their tracker servers are outside Sweden, and redundant. Distributed hosting FTW!

[Horsman]

Saw that earlier on another source, but don't expect TPB to shut down anytime soon, their tracker servers are outside Sweden, and redundant. Distributed hosting FTW!

Sweet!!! :yay: I was getting nervous... I have a pretty high seeding ratio...

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090418/ap_on_re_af/af_piracy


"Seven Somali pirates were detained, but they were soon released because "NATO does not have any detainment policy," Fernandes said. The seven could not be arrested or held because they were seized by Dutch nationals and neither the pirates, the victims nor the ship were Dutch, he explained."

And:

"Pirates plucked from the sea by navy warships could be tried anywhere from Mombasa to New York, Paris to Rotterdam — but most are simply set free to wreak havoc again because of legal issues."

Niiiiice. Exactly why they should simply be executed at sea.