Awww NAW!!! Shea and the Black Night are gonna kill someone!!

[Devaclis]

MEXICO CITY, Mexico (CNN) -- Reviving a ban on assault weapons and more strictly enforcing existing gun laws could help tamp down drug violence that has run rampant on the U.S.-Mexican border, President Obama said Thursday.
"We can respect and honor the Second Amendment while dealing with assault weapons," Obama says in Mexico.

"We can respect and honor the Second Amendment while dealing with assault weapons," Obama says in Mexico.

Speaking alongside Mexican President Felipe Calderón, Obama said he has "not backed off at all" on a campaign pledge to try to restore the ban. It was instituted under President Clinton and allowed to lapse by President George W. Bush.

"I continue to believe that we can respect and honor the Second Amendment right in our Constitution -- the rights of sportsmen and hunters and homeowners that want to keep their families safe -- to lawfully bear arms, while dealing with assault weapons that, as we know here in Mexico, are used to fuel violence," Obama said.

Obama and Calderón spoke after completing a wide-ranging meeting that included talk of the deadly border situation.

Calderón said that the link between Mexican drug violence and the U.S. ban on 19 types of military-style semi-automatic rifles -- which lapsed in 2004 -- is clear.

"From the moment the the prohibition on the sale of assault weapons was lifted a few years ago, we have seen an increase in the power of organized crime in Mexico," Calderón said.

He said that more than 16,000 assault weapons have been seized in the crackdown on drug traffickers, with almost 9 in 10 coming from the United States.

Some observers have said Obama may be slow to reintroduce the ban in Congress, where it would be sure to spark a fight at a time when his administration needs all the political clout it can muster to push its aggressive economic recovery efforts.

Calderón acknowledged the debate's thorny nature.
Don't Miss

* Obama heads to Mexico amid escalating violence
* 'Border czar' held similar post under Clinton

"We know that it is a politically delicate topic because Americans truly appreciate their Constitutional rights," he said. "As long as we are able to express clearly what our problems in Mexico are, then we might be able to also seek a solution that respects the constitutional rights of Americans, that at the same time will avoid organized crime becoming better armed in our country."

Obama said he has asked Attorney General Eric Holder to study how current gun laws are enforced and whether loopholes in some can be tightened. He said laws already on the books should restrict the flow of weapons into Mexico.

Obama and Calderón said their discussions ranged from working together to combat global climate change, to efforts at comprehensive immigration reform. Obama noted his two votes as a U.S. senator for reforms was backed by then-President Bush but shot down by Bush's fellow Republicans over what they called an "amnesty" provision for illegal immigrants.

"For those immigrants who have put down roots -- they have come here illegally -- I think they need to pay a penalty for having broken the law. They need to come out of the shadows. Then we need to put them through a process where, if they want to stay in the United States, they have an opportunity to earn it," Obama said.

Calderón said the key to reducing illegal immigration is to grow jobs in Mexico, which he pledged to do.

But much of their talk centered on the drug violence. Video Watch report on President Obama's trip »

Since taking office in 2006, Calderón has worked to root out government corruption and crack down on the drug cartels that hold sway in many of Mexico's border regions. That, combined with ramped-up power struggles and turf warfare, has contributed to a rash of violence that has led to more than 1,000 deaths this year.

Obama commended Calderón on the steps his government has taken.

"But I will not pretend that this is a Mexican responsibility alone," he said. "A demand for these drugs in the United States is what is helping keep these cartels in business. This war is being waged with guns not purchased here but in the United States."

Obama said he'll urge fast-tracking of the three-year, $1.4 billion Merida Initiative, a joint security plan between the United States, Mexico and other Latin American countries in which U.S. equipment, technology and expertise are used toward combating the drug trade.

Speaking to CNN en Español, Obama lauded Calderón as having done "an outstanding and heroic job in dealing with what is a big problem right now along the borders with the drug cartels."

Asked whether the United States is partly to blame for the violence along the border, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said, "there certainly is a relationship. You can't deny it."

In Mexico City on Thursday, she said, "What we're working to do is to work to stop the flow of guns and cash into Mexico that are helping fuel these cartels, but also we're working at the border to make sure that the spillover violence doesn't occur in our own cities and communities." Video Watch what Napolitano says about the U.S.-Mexico drug link »

Napolitano said the United States also must ensure that it is enforcing immigration laws on employers who "consistently go into that illegal labor market in order to exploit it."

E-verify, an electronic employment eligibility verification system, must be an integral part of immigration enforcement, she said.

Obama is to travel later in the week to the summit for meetings with Latin American leaders. While on the trip to Latin America, Obama said he seeks to engage in talks with the region's leaders as equals.

"Times have changed," Obama said Wednesday.

He refused to criticize the leaders of Bolivia, Ecuador and Venezuela, who have taken measures to change their constitutions to extend their holds on power. Video Watch as President Obama arrives in Mexico »

"I think it's important for the United States not to tell other countries how to structure their democratic practices and what should be contained in their constitutions," he said. "It's up to the people of those countries to make a decision about how they want to structure their affairs."
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He said he believes that the United States has a leadership role to play in the region, but he qualified that role this way: "We also recognize that other countries have important contributions and insights."

He added, "We want to listen and learn as well as talk, and that approach, I think, of mutual respect and finding com

[Devaclis]

It seems he does not want to hurt anyone's feelings, unless they are Americans.

[Shea]

"I continue to believe that we can respect and honor the Second Amendment right in our Constitution -- the rights of sportsmen and hunters and homeowners that want to keep their families safe -- to lawfully bear arms, while dealing with assault weapons that, as we know here in Mexico, are used to fuel violence," Obama said.

uh, yeah. Anyone else see the stupidity of this statement, besides me?

Once again, Mr. President, reality and facts are against you....

[~Barn~]

As long as it's each other, I'm all for it.

I keed! I keed!

[Sully]

I can't stay focused long enough to read all that :bigeyes:

[Devaclis]

Since we are having a problem with illegal immigration HERE, does this mean that Mexico is going to ban it THERE? Only seems fair, right?

[Shea]

Since we are having a problem with illegal immigration HERE, does this mean that Mexico is going to ban it THERE? Only seems fair, right?

No, but we are going to fund a fence on their southern border...because of illegal immigration. Makes sense doesn't it?

[dirkterrell]

Drop the "war on drugs." Mexican drug cartels collapse. Problem solved. Billions of dollars saved and no one's fundamental rights need be compromised.

Dirk

[Shea]

Drop the "war on drugs." Mexican drug cartels collapse. Problem solved. Billions of dollars saved and no one's fundamental rights need be compromised.

Dirk

And billions generated in taxes. Too much sense, please take your freedom loving ways somewhere else Nazi.

[Horsman]

Wrap It and Tax It.... But I don't think anyone would want to be around me with a head full of booger(nose candy)... Everyone would be really gay in my eyes...
Are you threatening me???
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/4Horsman/copy_of_db_beavis_cornholio1_7144.gif

[Canuck]

Drop the "war on drugs." Mexican drug cartels collapse. Problem solved. Billions of dollars saved and no one's fundamental rights need be compromised.

Dirk

:imwithstupid:

[InlineSIX24]

"I continue to believe that we can respect and honor the Second Amendment right in our Constitution -- the rights of sportsmen and hunters and homeowners that want to keep their families safe.."

Against who? That would be fun question to ask him. Sporting and hunting was not the reason for the Second Amendment.

[RajunCajun]

I REALLY am still having trouble believing that soooo many of you people voted for this clown!! The sound of his voice makes my soul hurt....

[Big-J]

:lol: You guys are funny!

This is also funny, and sad at the same time! Stupid Media (http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=224275&title=nationwide-tax-protests)...Stupid People (http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=224276&title=tea-party-tyranny)

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Drop the "war on drugs." Mexican drug cartels collapse. Problem solved. Billions of dollars saved and no one's fundamental rights need be compromised.

Dirk
Dirk for President!:)

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

No, but we are going to fund a fence on their southern border...because of illegal immigration. Makes sense doesn't it?
Are you kidding? I hope......

we still haven't finished the fence on OUR Southern border. Round 'em up, ship 'em back, and let them build their own southern wall.

How's that "Change" workin' for ya?

[Filo]

Dear Ultra Right Wing Defenders of Justice,

Believe it or not I agree with you on this one, but not for the reasons you think. Banning assault weapons here will only stop Mexican drug war violence if they are only able to get their weapons from the US. If the Mexican gangs find assault weapons to be an effective solution to the problem they are faced with and we cut off the flow from the US, they will simply buy them somewhere else. It may cost a little more, but they will just add that cost to the end product like any other business.

I, like Dirk, think that legalization and taxation is the way to go. But they don't ever ask my opinion.

I also don't think the Big O is doing a terrible job on the whole. I disagree with him on this and some of his stimulus package, but he has done a good job with other parts of his job.

Sincerely,

The Conservative Liberal.

[Rhino]

Well clearly its because of the economic downturn and how it's affected coffee suppliers. Or maybe people or doing more coke for a morning "pick me up"?:crazy:

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/mar/25/1n25guns011211-guns-flow-south-border/
After the gunfight, Mexican law enforcement seized the weapons. Five of the guns traced by U.S. federal agents – a .223-caliber assault rifle, three .308-caliber assault rifles and the sniper rifle – were purchased between July 25 and Aug. 2 by a man in Las Vegas identified in court documents as Juan Valdez.

In the documents, the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said Valdez had bought or caused others to buy more than $100,000 worth of firearms. After authorities used a warrant to search his home in early December, yielding additional weapons and cash, Valdez claimed he had been buying guns for a man named “Zorra,” who provided him with tens of thousands of dollars to purchase firearms.

His poor donkey is probably doing shows in TJ.



Well, I'm off to Walmart to pick up some grenades, RPGs, a few semi-auto .50s, an auto AK, anti-aircraft gun... http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j6zlb06QZ_w0xfai_KvYyUmzBqQQ

[The Black Knight]

In reality it's not 90% of the guns but more like 17% according to some new information from the ATF(and I shouldn't say new, just info that the alphabet soup boys forgot to mention clearly). Point is, our powers that be, are using this 90% figure in order to insight fear and backing for this Assault Weapons Ban. If they can just prove in say way, shape, or form that "Assault Weapons" are making their way into Mexico via the US. Then they will have the ammunition they need to start a new ban on our beloved AR's and AK's and every other gun that is high cap.

I for one believe this is just another backdoor attempt to jam the Second Amendment. I have never and will never buy the Obama/Biden admin's stance on believing in the Second Amendment. I'd sooner believe that the earth was flat, than believe Obama on the 2nd. I think we'll see a few more attempts like these until they have no other choice but to just come right out and say it(that they just want to Ban Guns for the sake of Banning Guns).

And no, unlike the title of this thread reads. I do not want to kill someone. I'm just going to be "that guy" that said, "I Told You So." :)


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2009/04/02/myth-percent-guns-mexico-fraction-number-claimed/
EXCLUSIVE: You've heard this shocking "fact" before -- on TV and radio, in newspapers, on the Internet and from the highest politicians in the land: 90 percent of the weapons used to commit crimes in Mexico come from the United States.

-- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said it to reporters on a flight to Mexico City.
-- CBS newsman Bob Schieffer referred to it while interviewing President Obama.
-- California Sen. Dianne Feinstein said at a Senate hearing: "It is unacceptable to have 90 percent of the guns that are picked up in Mexico and used to shoot judges, police officers and mayors ... come from the United States."
-- William Hoover, assistant director for field operations at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, testified in the House of Representatives that "there is more than enough evidence to indicate that over 90 percent of the firearms that have either been recovered in, or interdicted in transport to Mexico, originated from various sources within the United States."

There's just one problem with the 90 percent "statistic" and it's a big one:
It's just not true.

In fact, it's not even close. The fact is, only 17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have been traced to the U.S.
What's true, an ATF spokeswoman told FOXNews.com, in a clarification of the statistic used by her own agency's assistant director, "is that over 90 percent of the traced firearms originate from the U.S."

But a large percentage of the guns recovered in Mexico do not get sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.

"Not every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market," Matt Allen, special agent of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), told FOX News.
Video:Click here to watch more. (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/#)

A Look at the Numbers
In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S.

But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.
In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.
So, if not from the U.S., where do they come from? There are a variety of sources:

-- The Black Market. Mexico is a virtual arms bazaar, with fragmentation grenades from South Korea, AK-47s from China, and shoulder-fired rocket launchers from Spain, Israel and former Soviet bloc manufacturers.
-- Russian crime organizations. Interpol says Russian Mafia groups such as Poldolskaya and Moscow-based Solntsevskaya are actively trafficking drugs and arms in Mexico.
- South America. During the late 1990s, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) established a clandestine arms smuggling and drug trafficking partnership with the Tijuana cartel, according to the Federal Research Division report from the Library of Congress.
-- Asia. According to a 2006 Amnesty International Report, China has provided arms to countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America. Chinese assault weapons and Korean explosives have been recovered in Mexico.
-- The Mexican Army. More than 150,000 soldiers deserted in the last six years, according to Mexican Congressman Robert Badillo. Many took their weapons with them, including the standard issue M-16 assault rifle made in Belgium.
-- Guatemala. U.S. intelligence agencies say traffickers move immigrants, stolen cars, guns and drugs, including most of America's cocaine, along the porous Mexican-Guatemalan border. On March 27, La Hora, a Guatemalan newspaper, reported that police seized 500 grenades and a load of AK-47s on the border. Police say the cache was transported by a Mexican drug cartel operating out of Ixcan, a border town.

'These Don't Come From El Paso'
Ed Head, a firearms instructor in Arizona who spent 24 years with the U.S. Border Patrol, recently displayed an array of weapons considered "assault rifles" that are similar to those recovered in Mexico, but are unavailable for sale in the U.S.

"These kinds of guns -- the auto versions of these guns -- they are not coming from El Paso," he said. "They are coming from other sources. They are brought in from Guatemala. They are brought in from places like China. They are being diverted from the military. But you don't get these guns from the U.S."

Some guns, he said, "are legitimately shipped to the government of Mexico, by Colt, for example, in the United States. They are approved by the U.S. government for use by the Mexican military service. The guns end up in Mexico that way -- the fully auto versions -- they are not smuggled in across the river."

Many of the fully automatic weapons that have been seized in Mexico cannot be found in the U.S., but they are not uncommon in the Third World.
The Mexican government said it has seized 2,239 grenades in the last two years -- but those grenades and the rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs) are unavailable in U.S. gun shops. The ones used in an attack on the U.S. Consulate in Monterrey in October and a TV station in January were made in South Korea. Almost 70 similar grenades were seized in February in the bottom of a truck entering Mexico from Guatemala.

"Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semi-automatic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California," according to a report in the Los Angeles Times.

Boatloads of Weapons
So why would the Mexican drug cartels, which last year grossed between $17 billion and $38 billion, bother buying single-shot rifles, and force thousands of unknown "straw" buyers in the U.S. through a government background check, when they can buy boatloads of fully automatic M-16s and assault rifles from China, Israel or South Africa?

Alberto Islas, a security consultant who advises the Mexican government, says the drug cartels are using the Guatemalan border to move black market weapons. Some are left over from the Central American wars the United States helped fight; others, like the grenades and launchers, are South Korean, Israeli and Spanish. Some were legally supplied to the Mexican government; others were sold by corrupt military officers or officials.

The exaggeration of United States "responsibility" for the lawlessness in Mexico extends even beyond the "90-percent" falsehood -- and some Second Amendment activists believe it's designed to promote more restrictive gun-control laws in the U.S.

In a remarkable claim, Auturo Sarukhan, the Mexican ambassador to the U.S., said Mexico seizes 2,000 guns a day from the United States -- 730,000 a year. That's a far cry from the official statistic from the Mexican attorney general's office, which says Mexico seized 29,000 weapons in all of 2007 and 2008.

Chris Cox, spokesman for the National Rifle Association, blames the media and anti-gun politicians in the U.S. for misrepresenting where Mexican weapons come from.

"Reporter after politician after news anchor just disregards the truth on this," Cox said. "The numbers are intentionally used to weaken the Second Amendment."

"The predominant source of guns in Mexico is Central and South America. You also have Russian, Chinese and Israeli guns. It's estimated that over 100,000 soldiers deserted the army to work for the drug cartels, and that ignores all the police. How many of them took their weapons with them?"

But Tom Diaz, senior policy analyst at the Violence Policy Center, called the "90 percent" issue a red herring and said that it should not detract from the effort to stop gun trafficking into Mexico.

"Let's do what we can with what we know," he said. "We know that one hell of a lot of firearms come from the United States because our gun market is wide open."

[Cars-R-Coffins]

WOW! That's a lot of information :shocked:

[The Black Knight]

:hump:

[Cars-R-Coffins]

When's the AK group buy?

[Filo]

I didn't have time to read your whole post, but I do have to object to one thing I read it the first half. It is quoted below:


In reality it's not 90% of the guns but more like 17% according to some new information from the ATF(and I shouldn't say new, just info that the alphabet soup boys forgot to mention clearly). Point is, our powers that be, are using this 90% figure in order to insight fear and backing for this Assault Weapons Ban.


The word is incite as in to urge, not insight as in faculty of seeing the inner character. Just saying. See, you are always wrong :)

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I didn't have time to read your whole post, but I do have to object to one thing I read it the first half. It is quoted below:



The word is incite as in to urge, not insight as in faculty of seeing the inner character. Just saying. See, you are always wrong :)
....I would have used the word "instill", but maybe that's just me.....:)

Hey, give the guy a "brake" Filo........:)

[The Black Knight]

The word is incite as in to urge, not insight as in faculty of seeing the inner character. Just saying. See, you are always wrong :)
typo my bad :) it's my mistake for the year

[ZX9Rider]

Is it just me... or does Mexico's problem with crime seem like their problem? Even if Obama's rhetoric is true (which its not) why compromise my rights to try and fix it. Unless they just need an excuse to try the ban again.

The first ban was introduced because all the white kids acting like gangstas back in the 90's and the ban was to stop them from sticking an AK in their Impala's. (and it worked as far as fooling the public) Then the next time the ban was heard in the senate was to repeal it (1997) and it worked, because all the people figured out it was more of a pain for law abiding citizens then to stop crime. They tried to renew the ban back in 2004 because the terrorists wanted them (even though they can get real military weapons and not the bastardized ones sold here) Now they are saying that Mexico is getting their guns from us. I guess it was just their turn to be blamed. But the ban is the only thing consistant in all of this. The ban is what they really want and another one after that I'm sure. When the ban was in full effect in 2000 Al Gore pledged in his presidential campaign to ban all hand guns. It must be frustrating to have to wait so long on something like banning guns. I mean they are going to be to old to do whatever a huge government does to its people when they are unarmed and helpless. The next generation of tyrants are going to have all the fun.

The Second Amendment is a big road block for them to overcome. But if you can misread it and say its something not writen then you can overcome that. And anyone that points out that the second amendment has nothing to do with sporting purposes. You can call them extremists or radicals. Enter the media bias you see against gun owners The media can serve another purpose though they can spin whatever story you need to push the ban.

But if they can spin it enough and fool enough people to think its for the children or to stop terrorists or to help Mexico fight its war for pay offs. They might get what they want in the end. But with the flimsy facts and blaitent lies, people that love freedom and hate liars will write letters and emails to be nice and ask to stop. But they seem to have a shorter memory then us and will just try it again.

[The Black Knight]

When the ban was in full effect in 2000 Al Gore pledged in his presidential campaign to ban all hand guns. It must be frustrating to have to wait so long on something like banning guns. I mean they are going to be to old to do whatever a huge government does to its people when they are unarmed and helpless. The next generation of tyrants are going to have all the fun.


That's kind of the point. They don't care about the the here and now, for gun banners it's about the long term. It's the toe in the door effect. Once you get the toe in, then all the toes, then the foot, then the leg and pretty soon the whole beast. What was started back in the 50's 60's and 70's has had affects on today's gun laws. Which in return today's gun control laws will yield their results decades from now.

When you've got a specific party that has infiltrated into a government. They just bide their time. What one generation accomplishes or fails to accomplish the next one will take to task in getting completed.

Until one day we end up with total control of the government and the populace. That is the ultimate goal for all of them. It's not about the GUNS, it's about CONTROL. Guns just stand in the way of that Control, Why? because an armed populace can stand in the way. When everyone is unarmed and powerless, then the government will step up and issue the "My way or the highway" ultimatum and those who still wish to dissent will then be put to death.

It's in the history books, many nations great nations have fallen to this outcome and the United States is no exception to the rule. It may not happen today, tomorrow, a year from now or ten years from now. But one day it will happen, it's all just a matter of time. Whether or not our generation sees it come to fruition, it is our duty in life to make sure it never happens.

[brennahm]

This is like any other issue. The US is full of people who can't stand to not feel safe. They want to ban guns for fear of getting shot, they want to ban fast motorcycles for fear of getting hit, they want uneducated-self-important morons checking our bags for mouthwash in airports for fear of getting blown up. People want to FEEL safe, not be safe. And no amount of reason or evidence will change their emotion driven minds.

Also, don't anybody think that one party or group of people in our government is all bad or all good, they all have their moments quite regularly.