As deaths spike, motorcycle training pushed for troops

[Devaclis]

http://www.9news.com/news/world/article.aspx?storyid=115250&catid=347

LOS ALAMITOS, Calif. - Pentagon brass got an eye-opener when they examined 2008 casualty figures: More Marines died stateside on motorcycles than were killed in Iraq or Afghanistan.

[dirkterrell]

More Marines died stateside on motorcycles than were killed in Iraq or Afghanistan.

We clearly need to ban motorcycles. Those things are dangerous!

Dirk

[Nick_Ninja]

We clearly need to ban motorcycles. Those things are dangerous!

Dirk


Don't go there D.

[kawasakirob]

"On 150mph sportbikes with racing technology" What about 190mph? forget the cruisers who wear out 4 sets of rear pads before the front brake is even touched. Another jab at sportbikes. Once out of the class, I wonder how many of his buddy's were pushing him to be a squid. Wheelie, Wheelie, do a burnout homey!!! Lets ride at a rediculous amount of speed and take chances, forget that you only have 1,000mi on the bike

[JohnEffinK]

"On 150mph sportbikes with racing technology" What about 190mph? forget the cruisers who wear out 4 sets of rear pads before the front brake is even touched. Another jab at sportbikes. Once out of the class, I wonder how many of his buddy's were pushing him to be a squid. Wheelie, Wheelie, do a burnout homey!!! Lets ride at a rediculous amount of speed and take chances, forget that you only have 1,000mi on the bike

Maybe a few but no more than any other cross section of society.

What is your point?

John

[kawasakirob]

Maybe a few but no more than any other cross section of society.

What is your point?

John

My point is, you can go to the highest level riding school out there, but once you get back on the street, its up to you how you ride. I feel strongly that the sportbike market is growing increasingly popular with the Stuntazzzzzzz. Generally, you talk to someone who has first gotten their first sportbike, they can't wait to learn how to ride a wheelie or go as fast as they can everywhere(Hell I was the same). It's the sensation of speed for the first time. I believe there is to much emphasizing on what you ride rather than how you ride. He had a Harley, seemed to do fine with it, and was coaxed into getting a sportbike, soon after, he's in the hospital?
Is that cool with you?

[JohnEffinK]

Yeah that is cool with me.

Just seemed that the jab was against the Marines in the article and that there was some difference with the rest of society.

Difference stems from the fact the military has means to force certain training on their members based on desires of the chain of command. Society has no influence on their members in that there is no method to force some sort of training on the populace.

The numbers quoted by the article is probably equally spread among all the services. And the Army is also forcing sportbike specific training on their folks.

Just did not want to propagate the misunderstanding that sportbike deaths was solely a military issue.

John

[kawasakirob]

I understand, I'm surprised and glad to hear that the military has been keeping such a close eye on it. I just hope the negativity of the matter will not affect motorcyling for future troops/ or in the civilian world. The article seemed to disregard the Harley for the 150mph race bike for the street. Hope it does not come down even more negatively on sportbikes and the sportbike market than it already is now with the military getting involved.

[JohnEffinK]

It totally disregards the Harley.

But simple numbers add up to the fact that the majority of deaths are the sportbike crowd and not the HD crowd within the military.

It is a lot easier for a troop to drop 10-12k on a new sportbike and be cool and ride fast and wreck fast. It is a different scene for the folks who drop 18-22k on a Harley that just want to cruise. Bikes built for a purpose that not always correlates with rider skill.....

John

[rybo]

This is something that I've been aware of for some time and am working to help do something about.

Chicane is looking to do some work with returning soldiers to give them both an acceptable outlet for their need for speed AND training on how to use the tools that they have (in this case, sportbikes)

A product of military training is that soldiers come out with a sense of "I can do anything" and that there is such thing as "acceptable risk". Then the military TRAINS THEM FOR THEIR MISSION. This is the critical link. Soldiers return home, have some bonus cash around and buy a sportbike. They then DON'T always get the proper training, which is what leads to deadly accidents.

I'm hopeful to have some programs worked out sometime this summer so that returning soldiers can have a spot where they learn how to ride their bikes in a controlled environment, and then get to practice those skills in a place geared towards speed with (more) safety.

Scott

[biship660]

thats quite a number of people to have died like that. ride safe all

[Mental]

I understand, I'm surprised and glad to hear that the military has been keeping such a close eye on it. I just hope the negativity of the matter will not affect motorcyling for future troops/ or in the civilian world. The article seemed to disregard the Harley for the 150mph race bike for the street. Hope it does not come down even more negatively on sportbikes and the sportbike market than it already is now with the military getting involved.


Its a valid piont, but the fact of the matter is these guys are not coming back with a wad of cash and buying a harley. Seriously, I have seen the numbers. These young troops are drawn to sportbikes becuase they have just survived a very dangerous tour and find themselves attracted to adreneline producing experinces. The older guys are coming back with cash and buying Harleys. They aren't dying by the same rates.

This isn't a far off concept, this is exactly the condition that gave rise to the Hell's Angels and a dozen other clubs of the like. They have a high strees experince for a long time and come home looking for the same thrill. Now instead of biker clubs in the traditional sense, its is a 600 that can be had for a month's Combat pay and will outrun any production car and several race cars. Thats the attraction.

Finally the level heads in the military are getting the brass to pay attention to this, encourage mentorship and education, as well as drag nights and track days to provide that excitement in a safe and controlled manner.

If we keep playing the blame game, the military will ban sportbikes and the like all together, and that will simply result in young members doing things illeagaly, and not wearing the correct gear.

By ackowledging the problem, thats gives young leaders and experinced bikers in the military a chance to address this problem in a reasonable and smart manner. By publicly embracing sportbikes, they create an enviroment wear military riders don't have to hang with the more dangerous of the street stunters, boulevard racers and crowd that thingks helmets belong on the tail section. Instead they find like-minded enthusiasts for the track, for the cruise, the strip and the stunting crowd. These riders will embrace the new riders and set a better example. The new riders learn the right way to act in every enviroment, including stunting, and ultimately become mentors themselves for the generation that comes after.

The added side affect will be the harley guys end up with an education as well and in the end , all bikers end up being safer.

This is the right thing to do.

[usmcab35]

i agree that this is a all branches problem. i was in the marines, now in the army and i saw it a bunch when people would read about sportbikes online or magizine overseas and then come home buy a busa or r1 , something entirely way to fast for their skill level. they just brought up the marines rather then everyone cause marines get that title as crazy, seat of your pants, no fear SOB... we are all of that in some cases lol. i think they should offer a free mandatory class for motorcycle owners in the military... one day, one day. not just to get on base but period, sounds like there would be a lot to work out as far as the details go but it could happen.

[pilot]

Dev,
Thanks for taking time to post up on this important activity.

Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic, Keith Code's California Superbike School as well as the MSF have been working with the US Marines, and other services.

See Article: Washington Times Article, Thursday May 7, 2009, Sec, B2-National Security, "Leave it to the Marines, Combat military motorcycle accident deaths"

We just finished working with 140 Marines over the past two weeks (Yep, the tan, aka burn, is coming along just fine:scream1:). Each group of students attended both Level 1 and 2 of TCARC. Additional efforts are underway for more training to take place in the near future.

Here is a link to an article from Camp Pendleton's "The Scout" and others:

http://scoutnewspaper.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1023&Itemid=427

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/04/marine_bikes_042609w/

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/07/leave-it-to-the-marines/

http://www.zibb.com/article/5173454/Cape+Fox+Joins+Forces+With+Lee+Parks+For+West+Coas t+Marine+Corps+Motorcycle+Training

Here is a PP presentation of the concerns that Safety has:

http://safetycenter.navy.mil/presentations/ashore/motorvehicle/Motorcycle_Safety_update_8-08.ppt

There are more articles and blogs available out there on the net.

To all, thanks for your support in this huge undertaking to save the lives of our service members.

Regards from a land far and away,
Pilot