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View Full Version : Coyote Motorsports = Problem Resolved



Jmetz
Sat Jul 5th, 2003, 04:22 PM
Picked up a nail in my rear tire yesturday so time to get some new ones. Good time for me to get the tires I really want Pilot Sports.

So I call around this morning. DMT is closed, Fay well need I say more, and Coyote. Phone call goes like this.

Me: I need Pilot Sports 180/55/17 rear and 120/70/17 front. Do you have those.

Coyote: Yea no problem.

Me: What do you guys run?

Coyote: I can get you the set for $290 mounted and balanced done deal.

Me: ok great thanks.

So I get ahold of my brother cuz I'm working and he agrees to run my bike down there for me.
He gets down there calls me and says:
They wanna put an h2 on the rear. So I'm like well why do they wanna do that? Here talk to the guy.

Me: Why do you wanna put an h2 on the rear?

Coyote: Well I got deal for the h2 rears and so I'll put it on with a sport front.

Me: Well I like the pilot sports tread block for rain and the h2 is pretty slick in the rain.

Coyote: Oh no the h2 has a good compound and tread pattern and does pretty well in the rain. (lots of up talking and why I should go with the h2)

Me: no thanks I'll just stick with the pilot sports front and rear.

Coyote: Oh well I dont have the rear in stock that's why I'm offering the h2.

Me: Why did you tell me you had them in stock on the phone earlier?

Coyote: Oh I wasn't thinking. I've been selling them this way for 9 sets now and didn't think about it.

Ok I start getting mad here because I was now told they have something which they don't. I've got my little bro runing around for me and I need a rear.

Me: FINE put it on.

Coyote: Ok and btw that's gonna come to $313

Me: Hold the fuckin phone. You tell me you have tires you dont, Your putting on a tire I dont want, And now your going to charge me more to do it. No way.

So we go back and forth through my brother who is now caught in the middle and getting pissed. These people have wasted his time and mine. I've got to get it done so we agree to $303. I should have just had my bro walk But I need the tire and I didn't want to completely waste his time for nothing.

Coyote pulled a serious bait and switch. In my opnion thats seriously bad business for a shop that just opened. I guess that's why they're called coyote. Not to mention I just got home and looked at them and it's a 2000 h2. A 3 year old tire!!! This conduct of business is very shady and extreemly unprofessional!

I will not go back to that shop and will advise all I know to do the same. The business they practice is foul and I hope their shop closes just as fast as it was opened.

Coyote Motorsports I salute you. :321:

MostroS4
Sat Jul 5th, 2003, 06:08 PM
I'm constantly amazed by substandard service in this day and age when as consumers we have many choices along with the Internet to pass along quality of service.

I'm at that point in my life where I value service quite a bit. To the point I don't need the absolute lowest price at the expense of honesty and service.

I think it would have been one thing if your brother got there and they sold the last set, but to say they've sold 9 sets tells me they knew they didn't have the tires you wanted when you called.....

Reckon its one place I won't be buying tires from...

Anonymous
Sat Jul 5th, 2003, 06:42 PM
A *3* year old tire?? Umm, that's not cool. Rubber tends to dry out after a while (heat cycles nonwithstanding), keep a real close eye on them for signs of too much wear and cracks.

Dude that's messed up. It's so hard to get good service anymore... :evil: Is the front one new at least?

haywood jablome
Sat Jul 5th, 2003, 09:42 PM
Fug it i would have waited till mOnday then went to Discount. Cant beat them. Oh well anouther black X in my book of places to stay away from . Thanks Man SOrry to hear about yoru run in.

Erratic
Sat Jul 5th, 2003, 10:03 PM
o.k. first of all I'm the one that actually went down there and had to deal with all this bullsh*t. First I had to wait 30min. just to be helped, and NO they weren't busy. So the counter guy finally brings the tires out. I see them and ask "so those are the pilot sports right?" He replies yes, but the rear is a pilot race. I said wait a minute my bro specifically asked for sports FRONT AND REAR.He says "oh we don't have the sport rears, but these are just as good." thats when the sh*t really started in and i called my bro. That's where his post picks up. So after we figure something out they go to mount them. 2-2 1/2 hours later finally ready to go. Thanks a lot A$$ wipes. I do have plans and Iam in the process of saving money to buy a 2003 R6 by the end of summer you coyote a$$wholes won't be seeing me at your shop when I'm finally ready. And a big :321: to coyote motorsports.

Big-J
Sat Jul 5th, 2003, 11:11 PM
Very dissapointed to here about that J !! :x I guess there true colors came out pretty quick, and how long have they been open for! :slap: < Coyote Motorsports

TWISTED
Sun Jul 6th, 2003, 01:40 AM
I had a rear tire changed from them a week or so ago. $30 more than DMT, but I was out of there in 1 hour. Guy at counter was decent. Not much shit to look at for an hour though.

JohnS
Sun Jul 6th, 2003, 04:07 AM
jmetz....

Sorry for the hassle :( I got your PM and will notify the owner of what took place.

Before this situation even took place the person responsible is being dealt with for other issues we were having.

I know you guys and gals don't want to be test experiements for a new shop but cut us a little slack we are new and still working out some kinks. Trying to open a new shop and do things different from how other shops do things does take a little trial and error. The error was on one employee and the trial is over.

I hear alot of complaints with how shops do business and all of us that work at Coyote Motorsports have worked at almost every shop in town. We came to Coyote for a reason and that main reason is the owner Dave Wagner has given us the ability to take better care of our customers. I'm sure if you give us the chance we will prove just how different we are especially when it comes to buying a new motorcycle. Change takes time and the little kinks will work themselves out.

I have been hanging around and reading this board for a while now and respect the power that you gals/guys hold. Above all I respect your opinions and appreciate when I'm notified of a problem with an employee or system.

I hope one experience doesn't sour the rest of you on or service dept. or any other dept. for that matter.

John Schwaderer

MostroS4
Sun Jul 6th, 2003, 07:45 AM
While I agree a new business takes some time to "sort out" the bugs, I think there are some things that are "intrinsic" to a business especially one that deals directly with the public. Customer Service being one especially in the area of honesty.

I don't think a business should have to work towards that. Honesty is one thing that should be there from the beginning and not something a business works towards.

yakuza
Sun Jul 6th, 2003, 11:43 AM
I can understand having it take a little while to get your procedures worked out, especially if you're having trouble with an employee. Perhaps something could be done to make jmetz feel better about his interaction with your shop (store credit, etc). But what's the deal with substandard products? A 3 year old tire???

JohnS
Sun Jul 6th, 2003, 12:50 PM
A business can be totally honest and customer service driven and have one bad apple(employee) seem as if the bunch is spoiled. I'm not even sure it was a lack of honesty on said persons part as much as it was just a major mistake covered with excuses :|

As far as the 3 year old tire is concerned I'm not sure that it's really that old. I know we have a lot of Pilot Race 1's in stock which are last years race tire. I plan on picking up some for my track bike and had a set a while back and they worked great on the track and street.

I'm going to see what can be done to make it up to jmetz. Check your PM!

John

~Barn~
Sun Jul 6th, 2003, 02:05 PM
Josh, give this guy a shot. See if the store really steps up and takes care of you somehow.

I'm interested in what transpires, so keep us posted.

Sometimes an genuine apology with something tangible to make up for whatever needs to be, can be reason enough to give somebody another chance..

Now!... *having* to always make amends at a shop is an entirely different subject. We'll all be better off, if it can really be chalked up to an isolated incident.

Erratic
Sun Jul 6th, 2003, 06:17 PM
As far as the 3 year old tire is concerned I'm not sure that it's really that old. I know we have a lot of Pilot Race 1's in stock which are last years race tire.

John



We did a search last night and did not see the tread that tire has until 2000

yakuza
Sun Jul 6th, 2003, 10:44 PM
I was under the impression that tires had a marking of some sort (numbers and letters) that designated manufacture dates, batch, etc. I'd want to double-check that before definitively stating a tire is 3 years old...

Jmetz
Sun Jul 6th, 2003, 11:06 PM
I'm not even sure it was a lack of honesty on said persons part as much as it was just a major mistake covered with excuses :|

As far as the 3 year old tire is concerned I'm not sure that it's really that old.

John,

The said person told me when I called that they had the front and rear Pilot sports in stock. This was obviously untrue or "not honest" as I would later come to find out.
Second when confronted he said he had already sold 9 sets like that. This further proves that he was being dishonest on the phone and also clearly makes a case that this was no mistake on his part, he knew what he was doing as he had done 9 times before. No offense John but 9 times makes it pretty hard to "forget" that you dont have something in stock.

As far as the tire goes the only year that tread pattern was used as far as all the searches I have done show, was in 2000

You also state that the employee is already being dealt with for other "problems" before my situation took place. I feel it very unfortunate that I even had to deal with this employee that being the case. I'm not one to tell you how to run a business but that "one bad apple" unchecked is costing you lots of business. And from the sounds of it should have been eliminated awhile ago.

Further more you also said you hope that one bad experience doesn't sour it for everyone else. That's what this is for, to keep others from having the same expierence and getting screwed. It's time that bad customer service not go unchecked! Frankly I'm tired of all the places that I spend my money not giving a shit about the consumer!
I will give you credit for stepping up even though you had nothing to do with this situation directly and we'll see what transpires from here.

Anonymous
Sun Jul 6th, 2003, 11:44 PM
Josh,

On your tire you will find the 'DOT Code'. It begins with, naturally, "DOT" and is then followed by 3 groups of letters/numbers. For example on my Pilot Sport rear, the code reads:
DOT HB7D 788T 2401

The first two groups are not significant, they are just manufacturer/model information. The last one tells you when the tire was physically made; decode it as the week then year, i.e. for my rear tire it was made in the 24th week of 2001. This will tell you definitively when the tire was made.

I still think this problem should not have happened, and I'm not sure what John's actual involvement in Coyote is since he's not the owner, but unless it was a shop practice to bait and switch customers, there definitely seems to be a pattern that this employee was a part of (which he admitted to).

Personally I do not like the idea of giving a race tire to a street rider either - they are race tires for a reason, because they need to heat up to get sticky and are designed to be ridden much harder than a street compund which holds on to the road at much lower temperatures. I feel this little fact should have been explained to the customer instead of having him believe it was the same thing just "better". I don't think Josh will be pushing it hard enough on the street to be an issue, and for track days if he gets into them it might help, but try to imagine what would happen if someone bought this race compound tire and went into a canyon corner hot early into his ride, expecting it to stick, only it slid out because it wasn't hot yet... Yeah. Not pretty. If this employee is and has been a problem, then why is he still there? IMO he needs to be finding a new place of employment, if your commitment to customer service and a new era of motorcycle consumer happiness is legit.

JohnS
Mon Jul 7th, 2003, 09:53 AM
when confronted he said he had already sold 9 sets like that
I wouldn't say this makes him dishonest. It's still possible that he was misinformed and passed the misinformation along 9 different times. Still I'm not defending his actions or information I'm just trying to make sense of it.

No I'm not the owner or even a manager at Coyote Motorsports but I have a vested interested in making sure all of you have a good experience where I work. I will speak to the owner of the situation that transpired and see what can be done for Josh.

I think everyone desrves a second chance as this employee has recieved. Like I said he's being dealt with. I'm just trying to keep my mouth shut about it.

Coyote the company has done nothing wrong other than having the wrong employee in the wrong position here. Lesson learned, I'm just sorry Josh had to deal with our problem.

We are closed today (monday) but we will be contacting Josh.

As far as the tire in question. I will look to see and contact some tire guys to find out about the tires we have in stock. Pilot sports themselves do take a long time to warm up. I've stayed away from them for this reason. I know many racers were running pilot Race 1's last year and I plan on running them again as in my opinion are the best tires on the market. just my opinion though.

Thank you,
John

Jmetz
Mon Jul 7th, 2003, 10:41 AM
Josh,

On your tire you will find the 'DOT Code'. It begins with, naturally, "DOT" and is then followed by 3 groups of letters/numbers. For example on my Pilot Sport rear, the code reads:
DOT HB7D 788T 2401

The first two groups are not significant, they are just manufacturer/model information. The last one tells you when the tire was physically made; decode it as the week then year, i.e. for my rear tire it was made in the 24th week of 2001. This will tell you definitively when the tire was made.

The number is 3900 or the 39th week 2000. Thus a 3 year old tire.

Anonymous
Mon Jul 7th, 2003, 11:34 AM
Josh,

On your tire you will find the 'DOT Code'. It begins with, naturally, "DOT" and is then followed by 3 groups of letters/numbers. For example on my Pilot Sport rear, the code reads:
DOT HB7D 788T 2401

The first two groups are not significant, they are just manufacturer/model information. The last one tells you when the tire was physically made; decode it as the week then year, i.e. for my rear tire it was made in the 24th week of 2001. This will tell you definitively when the tire was made.

The number is 3900 or the 39th week 2000. Thus a 3 year old tire.

Well, there you have it. Kinda hard to argue with that one... ;)

John regardless of what you work out with Josh, I see some issues here. It seems than an employee did this 9 times. So if he wasn't being dishonest, then he was misinformed 9 times and by the 9th time didn't bother to go back and physically check the stock himself? That just makes him stupid. I'm not sure which is worse when it comes to people trusting their bikes to the shop's care.

I know your involvement here is required to be limited, and I do appreciate you stepping up to try and make this right. I'm not trying to bust you up on this, but Josh is my friend and I'm going to get his back if I feel he's being wronged, as I do here. If this was by some freak occcurance some massive misunderstanding or act of incompetence, I'm willing to accept that, but as of now the fact remains that Coyote has in stock and for sale, tires produced 3 years ago, and is selling them as new to customers, which has now been proven. You have an employee who is either lying to customers or a moron, I can't tell which or why. These are both not small issues; now I know a lot of the people here, and we're all resonable people. If we all feel that the problems have been taken care of I think we can all forgive and forget, especially to a new company going through growing pains. While whatever you work out with Josh is between the two of you, it would be in the best interest of Coyote to write back here at some point with what is being done specifically...

As for the heat cycles of Michelin tires, well, that was kind of my point. I've never seen a problem with Sports (I have them on a liter twin and they seem to grip like glue - I love 'em!), but by definition the race tires will heat up even more slowly. You mentioned that racers love the Pilot race compound, and I agree, I know people who swear by them; however they are racers, not street riders as Josh is; he was sold a race tire that while stickier when hot, is worse when cold, and I don't think he was made aware of the potential ramifications of that.

Of course these are just my opinions and anyone is free to make their own judgement ... If I am wrong, I will apologize, but I don't think I'm too far off-base here.

BlueDevil
Tue Jul 8th, 2003, 08:44 AM
Oh man not good from a new dealer in town. There are so many bad ones out there it would have been a great move for them to come in and be the good guy off the start. Ive been there but never bought anything. Ill stay clear. For tires I have always been a DMT fan.

jrok929
Tue Jul 8th, 2003, 12:45 PM
Not forgetting to mention that the two tires have significantly different tread patterns....overall just bad business to be selling two different tires to anyone!...i'm sure Michellin would love to hear about this one.

Jmetz
Tue Jul 8th, 2003, 03:44 PM
Spoke with John this afternoon and they are going to correct the problem.

The employee in question has been removed, They have the pilot sports on order and will swap them out when they come in at cost and have agreed to refund me the difference.

John was very apologetic for the situation though he had nothing to do with it. I must commend him for cleaning up someone elses shit and he's just an employee not even a manager.

Thank you John for stepping up.

yakuza
Tue Jul 8th, 2003, 03:51 PM
That's very good to hear, thanks for keeping us updated. A shop that steps up and takes care of their problems is a good shop, in my opinion. :up:

Big-J
Tue Jul 8th, 2003, 05:04 PM
Way to go John!! You should be getting a raise for saving a lot of potential business for Coyote MS!!!

Erratic
Tue Jul 8th, 2003, 05:13 PM
I'm glad coyote took care of this and thank you John for stepping up and cleaning someone elses mess :up:

JohnS
Tue Jul 8th, 2003, 09:01 PM
The way our shop sees it.....

It's not someones elses mess it's our mess. Whether it's the sales dept. or service, parts it affects how our customers see us. thats not one persons problem it's everyones.

So you all know if theres ever a problem with any dept. at Coyote you can always contact me and we'll make sure we make it right again.

Just for future reference on tires ( I asked around)... As long as tires are stored properly they are as good as tires straight from the Mfg. All that is required to store them properly is to keep them inside at a constant temp. as long as that temp isn't 200 degrees ;) they will still be good 3 years down the road. As for selling track tires to street riders I'll pass along the good advice of warning street riders of the difference.

I sincerley hope we get the chance to work with you gals and guys in the future whether it be for parts , service or a new motorcycle.

Keep the rubber side down :D

John

Bryce
Tue Jul 8th, 2003, 09:05 PM
just as a note to all the age of a unused tire (ie still has sealer on it ) is of very little matter and will not dry out due to the sealer therefore making the issue of age mostly moot

Anonymous
Wed Jul 9th, 2003, 01:29 PM
John,

Thank you for handling this, and I am happy to see that everyone at Coyote takes an active role in the success of the company no matter what their position. It's also good that you take an active role in local riding groups such as this one; I'm sure everyone here is pleased that it has been taken care of swiftly and openly, and will continue to shop at Coyote in the future. :up:

Erratic
Sat Aug 2nd, 2003, 01:23 AM
Well it isn't exactly my place to say this, but Jmetz called me from coyote today when he was getting his tire changed out. Apparently the service guy who started this whole mess was still their. If you read John's post he directly said that this person was fired, and the problem eliminated. So why is he still their? On top of that they gave him no re-embursement as stated. J said they told him it was because the tires cost the same. That should not matter. Give the man something for the hassle, time, and his troubles. Maybe I didn't get the whole story, but this really dissapoints me.

JohnS
Sat Aug 2nd, 2003, 06:19 AM
If anyone has any questions feel free to PM me.

Anonymous
Sat Aug 2nd, 2003, 03:18 PM
Apparently the service guy who started this whole mess was still their. If you read John's post he directly said that this person was fired, and the problem eliminated. So why is he still their?ERRATIC, I couldn't find anything in John's post that directly said the guy was actually fired. This is all I found, which actually indicates that he wasn't fired:
I think everyone desrves a second chance as this employee has recieved. Like I said he's being dealt with.
According to Josh's post on 7/08, several things were said over the phone which now seem to have been lies:
Spoke with John this afternoon and they are going to correct the problem.

The employee in question has been removed, They have the pilot sports on order and will swap them out when they come in at cost and have agreed to refund me the difference.
John, I'm not trying to stir up shit here, but if Josh was promised something, then Coyote should deliver. Even if the tires were the same price, Coyote should make an exception in the name of good business. Like ERRATIC said, to compensate for the time & trouble that both he and Jmetz were put through (as we all know, time is money). :D

Peace out.

Erratic
Sat Aug 2nd, 2003, 04:50 PM
Ahhh sorry I thought John had posted that somewhere but it must have been from the phone conversatio. But in any case it was said.

JohnS
Sat Aug 2nd, 2003, 06:46 PM
I said it because it was suppose to happen and didn't. I'll talk to the owner about reimbursment. thanks for the reminder cause i was trying to read through everything to find out what our service manager was gonna do.

Jmetz
Sun Aug 3rd, 2003, 10:47 AM
I'm fine with what has taken place. I wasn't in it for the money. I was just very suprised to find the employee still there. and that is probably the only thing I wasn't ok with.