Guns in Bars in AZ. What do you think?

[McVaaahhh]

I'm kinda torn a bit on this one.

On one hand, 2nd ammendment, protect your rights/family/all that stuff.

On the other hand people do really dumb shit when they're drinking and everyone with half a brain knows that alcohol and guns don't mix.

However, it only effects people that are legal gun owners.

So, I don't know how I really feel about this.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31683427/ns/us_news-life/?GT1=43001

PHOENIX - The Arizona Senate has given final approval to a bill that would allow people with concealed weapons permits to carry a gun into a business that serves alcohol.The 19-8 vote completes legislative action on the bill and sends it to Republican Gov. Jan Brewer. She has not said whether she will sign it, but she has long been a supporter of gun rights.
The measure has pitted powerful groups representing gun and bar owners against each other, sparking a debate about whether guns and alcohol can coexist without bloodshed.
Critics of the measure say guns and alcohol are a dangerous combination.
"We don't let people drink and drive, why should we let them drink and carry guns?" said Sen. Paula Aboud, D-Tucson, who voted against the bill.
Supporters say they should be able to protect themselves and their families even if they happen to be inside a business serving alcohol.
"It's very important that criminals are now afraid rather than law abiding citizens," said Sen. Jack Harper, R-Surprise, the bill's sponsor.
The measure would ban drinking while packing and allow restaurants to deny entry to gun-toting citizens by posting a sign next to their liquor license.
The bill initially required that a bar serving alcohol also serve food, but that provision was removed at the request of bar owners who worried about uncertainty over which bars have kitchens.
Forty other states have approved similar measures, according to the National Rifle Association.
Former Gov. Janet Napolitano, a Democrat, vetoed a similar bill earlier this decade that would not have required people to have concealed weapons permits in order to carry guns in bars.
More than 127,000 Arizonans have concealed weapons permits, which require a gun safety course and background check, according to the Arizona Department of Public Safety.

[dchd1130]

I could be wrong, but I thought you could carry in CO bars.

[Devaclis]

It should be up to the bar owner and the customers. /discussion.

[TFOGGuys]

Been legal w/CCW permit in CO for a long time, with no ill effects. It IS however, illegal to carry while under the influence, so most people I know with CCW don't drink if they're carrying, and don't carry if they might possibly be drinking. Not to mention, even if you're under the legal BAC, and you are involved in a shooting, you'll be hosed in civil court, even if you are coleared of any criminal wrongdoing.

[Bebop]

It should be up to the bar owner and the customers. /discussion.

It should be up to the bar owner. If the customers want (If not allowed) or don't want (if allowed) guns in a certain place they can go somewhere else.

[Devaclis]

Pig and elephant DNA just don't mix

[McVaaahhh]

Been legal w/CCW permit in CO for a long time, with no ill effects. It IS however, illegal to carry while under the influence, so most people I know with CCW don't drink if they're carrying, and don't carry if they might possibly be drinking. Not to mention, even if you're under the legal BAC, and you are involved in a shooting, you'll be hosed in civil court, even if you are coleared of any criminal wrongdoing.

Good to know. :up:

[Bebop]

Not to mention, even if you're under the legal BAC, and you are involved in a shooting, you'll be hosed in civil court, even if you are coleared of any criminal wrongdoing.

Do you have a case to prove that? Otherwise it is just speculation.

[LambeauXLIV]

Regardless, if the bar owner wants to, can't he/she put up a sign prohibiting firearms in their bar?

[Bebop]

Regardless, if the bar owner wants to, can't he/she put up a sign prohibiting firearms in their bar?

Yes Colorado law says that signs must be posted clearly at every entrance that says no firearms allowed. It cannot just be word of mouth or some rule in the manual.

[LambeauXLIV]

That makes sense

[Nick_Ninja]

Only on Whisky Row in Prescott, AZ:drink::siesta:

http://www.whiskeyrow.us/images/sharlothallphotoweb.jpg


"Oh they starts her in at the Kaintucky bar,
at the head of Whiskey Row,
and they winds up down by the Depot House,
some forty drinks below." -- Gail Gardner

[modette99]

..

[Shea]

It should be up to the bar owner and the customers. /discussion.

pfft, freedom is for losers. We should just have government dictate every aspect of our lives so people don't have to think for themselves.

If someone has some data on how many CCW holders were involved in a disproportionate number of shootings at bars, in states with similar laws, I'd be against it. However, my gut says that no such data exists and this is just another emotional fallacy by a certain wing of the public. Next thing you know they will be telling us the CCW holders at bars are responsible for Mexican drug cartel violence...

[Nick_Ninja]

pfft, (<---left that because it is soooo Shea) <snip>Next thing you know they will be telling us the CCW holders at bars are responsible for Mexican drug cartel violence...

Not in Prescott --- only in Douglas and Nogales. Those towns are closer to the action.

[Midget Hellion]

I think that if you have a CCW, you should be allowed to carry your firearm into an establishment serving alcohol. If you have gone through the work to get a CCW, you are not going to be the type to drink and carry. The people that would drink and carry probably don't have a CCW anyway, why would violating yet ANOTHER law phase them if they are already disregarding CCW laws?

[JohnEffinK]

Plus, sometimes you are in a bar with a jukebox playing and the song really sux. It is easier to shoot it than to have to walk out to your car to get the tire iron.

John

[Shea]

Not in Prescott --- only in Douglas and Nogales. Those towns are closer to the action.

lol <does his impression of N_N's stink eye and universal sign of peace>

[RajunCajun]

Been legal w/CCW permit in CO for a long time, with no ill effects. It IS however, illegal to carry while under the influence, so most people I know with CCW don't drink if they're carrying, and don't carry if they might possibly be drinking. Not to mention, even if you're under the legal BAC, and you are involved in a shooting, you'll be hosed in civil court, even if you are coleared of any criminal wrongdoing.

Legal BAC has nothing to do with it really. If you are drinking at all and are carrying with a CCW, you can lose it if any cop questions you about it. If you are carrying, then NO drinking, period.


I think that if you have a CCW, you should be allowed to carry your firearm into an establishment serving alcohol. If you have gone through the work to get a CCW, you are not going to be the type to drink and carry. The people that would drink and carry probably don't have a CCW anyway, why would violating yet ANOTHER law phase them if they are already disregarding CCW laws?

My thoughts, exactly!

Ok, so I have to go reload, don't drink my damm beer!! LOL!:drink:

[Bebop]

Legal BAC has nothing to do with it really. If you are drinking at all and are carrying with a CCW, you can lose it if any cop questions you about it. If you are carrying, then NO drinking, period.


Everything I have seen says that you can carry and drink as long as you are not at the legal limit. If you would get a DUI then you cannot carry but until that point you can. The cop cannot revoke your CHP only the issuing Sherriff or Judge can do that.

18-12-106. Prohibited use of weapons.
(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:
(d) The person has in his or her possession a firearm while the person is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance, as defined in section 12-22-303 (7), C.R.S. Possession of a permit issued under section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or possession of a permit or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article is no defense to a violation of this subsection (1).
"Under the influence" are the key words

[The Black Knight]

Everything I have seen says that you can carry and drink as long as you are not at the legal limit. If you would get a DUI then you cannot carry but until that point you can. The cop cannot revoke your CHP only the issuing Sherriff or Judge can do that.

18-12-106. Prohibited use of weapons.
(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:
(d) The person has in his or her possession a firearm while the person is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance, as defined in section 12-22-303 (7), C.R.S. Possession of a permit issued under section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or possession of a permit or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article is no defense to a violation of this subsection (1).
"Under the influence" are the key words
Right and in Colorado, 1 Beer is considered "Under The Influence" , so yes you "cannot" drink and have your firearm with you. Unless you want to press your luck.

I think the right thing to do is if you're going out to a bar to get "lit up" just leave your firearm at home or in the car.

I'm as Pro-Second Amendment as you can get. But I personally don't agree fully with Arizona on this one. For me it's not about the issue of concealed carry and being in a bar. I'm worried about that "ONE" dumbass that is going to give CCW's like myself and others a bad name. No one is perfect and sure as the world you'll get that one guy that just has to try it out, he'll go to the bar. Get hosed on some booze and then he'll get smack talked and something will happen. I can already see it happening now.

Again I'm not really against Arizona because it's their law and if it's law it's law. I just don't have enough faith in people for someone to be able to mix their alcohol and CCW.

Now am I saying I haven't been in a bar or in a restaraunt with a bar and been CCW. Of course I do it all the time(mainly in places where it's a dining area and a separate bar, like Old Chicago's) but then again I'm the exception to the rule. I don't drink "EVER" so I can get away with it. I know there are other people who walk the same line as myself.

However, I'm worried about those who do like to suck a few back and get rowdy. Now mix in the pistol and I think it will be just a matter of time before the SHTF.

I'd like to give CCW'ers the benefit of the doubt on this one but it's going to be a tough one. Mainly because I'm worried about the affects on gun rights in general. I know how the other side(Anti-Gunners) are reacting. They are waiting with baited breath for something to happen and when it does(lets hope not), they are going to pounce on it faster than Rosey O'Donnell at an all-you-can-eat buffet.

I just hope to hell this doesn't backfire in Arizona's face.

[Snowman]

This can only lead to one thing...

http://ftp.anakinweb.com/anakinweb/dvd/anh-han-greedo2.jpg

[The Black Knight]

Greedo getting shot??

[Snowman]

Han shooting first!

[The Black Knight]

Han shooting first!
yeah but it's o.k. Greedo was bad, so as long as the bad people get shot it's all good :up:

[Cars-R-Coffins]

Right and in Colorado, 1 Beer is considered "Under The Influence" , so yes you "cannot" drink and have your firearm with you. Unless you want to press your luck.

Let's not start rumors...

In Colorado there is no bright-line rule that defines the amount of alcohol necessary to be "under the influence" or "intoxicated" in the context of being in possession of a firearm.

CRS 18-1-804. Intoxication.

(4) "Intoxication", as used in this section means a disturbance of mental or physical capacities resulting from the introduction of any substance into the body.

[The Black Knight]

Let's not start rumors...

In Colorado there is no bright-line rule that defines the amount of alcohol necessary to be "under the influence" or "intoxicated" in the context of being in possession of a firearm.

CRS 18-1-804. Intoxication.

(4) "Intoxication", as used in this section means a disturbance of mental or physical capacities resulting from the introduction of any substance into the body.
Exactly, and for someone like myself who doesn't consume alcohol. 1 Beer would be enough to screw me up and become intoxicated. So that's why they give such a loose interpretation and write it like they do. Because they have to cover all kinds of people not just a minority.

I don't know though, this kind of law is going to be very interesting. We'll have to wait and see if and any kind of fall out will happen with it.

[DavidofColorado]

Sounds good. Let them do it and face the consequences if they kill someone. This doesn't change the law that murder is still illegal right? And if someone wants to carry in a bar or place that serves alcohol like Olive Garden, then let em.

There are some states like Tenn. that don't have bars exactly they have restaurants that serve booze. And they have to make most of the money from food. But you can't carry in there because the liars that are against it call the places bars.
But Tenn. has a lot of funny ideas when it comes to spirits. I know that Jack Daniels distillery is in a dry county.

[kawasakirob]

I think it's fine. I work at a bar in the mountains and there are a few "customers" that usually carry a firearm on them. No big deal. they get as drunk as the next guy. The problem is getting some goober with his pants down to his knees and trying to start something and instead of throwing a punch, he shoots the guy. That is unfortunate. There are already guns in Bars here, alot of people just don't know it. The only thing you can do, is try to figure out who has em