Why are you still buying Hondas/Toyotas?

[jbnwc]

When Buick is now making pure secsay cars like this AND has less problems per vehicle than any other make (besides Lexus)?

If I can't get a G8 GXP, I think this is my new second choice for my family ride.

http://www.netcarshow.com/buick/2010-lacrosse/

http://img2.netcarshow.com/Buick-LaCrosse_2010_800x600_wallpaper_05.jpg


http://img2.netcarshow.com/Buick-LaCrosse_2010_800x600_wallpaper_01.jpg

[Canuck]

I don't buy American or Japanese.
I'm all Eurotrash with my vehicles.

[Devaclis]

I am pretty sure the G8 is discontinued? Lemme check

[jbnwc]

This would be my first choice if I could get one here.

http://img2.netcarshow.com/Opel-Insignia_OPC_2010_800x600_wallpaper_05.jpg

[Devaclis]

General Motors' newly-appointed Vice Chairman, Bob Lutz, has penned a post on GM's Fast Lane blog that can be boiled down to two words: My bad.

A flurry of reports spurred on by Lutz' comments that GM was considering adapting the Pontiac G8 into a reborn, rear-wheel drive Chevrolet Caprice have been downplayed by a number of the General's generals, including CEO Fritz Henderson. In Lutz' post, he put the final nail in the G8-cum-Caprice's coffin saying:

"The G8 will not be a Caprice after all. I'd mentioned it, and said we were studying it, giving it a serious look, because a car like the G8 was just too good to waste.

"That's all still true. But I have to say that, with my new "marketing" hat on, upon further review and careful study, we simply cannot make a business case for such a program. Not in today's market, in this economy, and with fuel regulations what they are and will be."
Lutz is quick to point out that the decision to kill the G8 will have no effect on GM's future rear-drive vehicles, and he went on to say, "... we have a tremendous RWD team in Australia that gave us the beloved G8, a team that we will tap into at some point again in the future for its expertise and sheet metal. Just not right now."

So... nothing to see here people. Move along...

[jbnwc]

I am pretty sure the G8 is discontinued? Lemme check


I always buy used, 2-4 yrs old.

[salsashark]

yeah Opels!!!

[asp_125]

Buick will always be an old-man's brand. Now this.. http://www.netcarshow.com/audi/2010-a5_sportback/ is secksay. :up:

[jbnwc]

Buick will always be an old-man's brand. Now this.. http://www.netcarshow.com/audi/2010-a5_sportback/ is secksay. :up:


I saw a new A5 on the road next to a new CTS-V and the CTS is way secsayer IMO. I'll never buy either, unfortunately. I have to be realistic in my dreams!:(

[Matty]

If I can't get a G8 GXP,

P oor
O ld
N *****
T hinks
I t's
A
C adillac


ya-ya a lil rascist i know..... sorry in advance if i offended anyone.

[Devaclis]

I buy what I like. Brand loyalty is an advertising scheme.

[Zach929rr]

P oor
O ld
N *****
T hinks
I t's
A
C adillac


Real classy. :roll:

[Matty]

Real classy. :roll:
why thank you!!!!

[Nick_Ninja]

AMC WOODY PACER FTMFW!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/AMC_Pacer.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/AMC_Pacer_rear.jpg

[asp_125]

I saw a new A5 on the road next to a new CTS-V and the CTS is way secsayer IMO. I'll never buy either, unfortunately. I have to be realistic in my dreams!:(

556Hp, fastest sedan produced in the world.. six piston Brembos... :hump:

[jbnwc]

I was just surprised to see something so good looking coming out of an "old man" brand.

[jbnwc]

I buy what I like. Brand loyalty is an advertising scheme.

AMEN

[jbnwc]

I just realized that everything I've done on my pc for the last 35 minutes was totally viewable by a few of my clients.:oops:

[Mental]

The images you hotlinked aren't showing up.

GM cars are still designed with wallowy suspensions, overly chunky controls, and an insulated cabin. All of the things I do not want out of my car. They feel heavy and sluggish, even when they aren't. They are built that way becuase thats their demographic, which is why great cars like the GTO and G8, as well as the G8 sportruck don't make the cut.

Euro cars are designed to feel connected to the road and the designs are carefully thought through which is why you only see major redesigns out of europe every 10 years. Asain cars are designed to be nimble and trendy (Nissan Cube anyone) which is why Honda has a corprate madate for a major redesign every 3 years.

Of course I drive a van, so this is really just an academic exercise.

[Mental]

AMC WOODY PACER FTMFW!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/AMC_Pacer.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/AMC_Pacer_rear.jpg

Schaweetttt!

Oringinally designed to be a wankel powered car.

[jbnwc]

The profiles aren't much different...

http://img2.netcarshow.com/Audi-A5_Sportback_2010_800x600_wallpaper_1b.jpg
http://img2.netcarshow.com/Buick-LaCrosse_2010_800x600_wallpaper_06.jpg

[Devaclis]

Stop linking from that site. The pics are not working :)

[#1Townie]

i love my escalade...

my 08 f450 runs good..

[Nick_Ninja]

Schaweetttt!

Oringinally designed to be a wankel powered car.

Yep! :up:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Wankel_Cycle_anim_en.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/AMC_Pacer_1975_French_advertisement.jpg

And the real hooligan sled.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/AMC_Pacer_Amsterdam_2.jpg/800px-AMC_Pacer_Amsterdam_2.jpg

[GregsGSXR]

Ford Pinto Station Wagon... there is no substitute

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii427/GregsGSXR/1978_ford_pinto_cruisesilver_001.jpg

[rforsythe]

I've owned several Toyota's because they're built well, drive well, and run forever if you maintain them. I had a Nissan that was a POS but I think that was more just its history. Current rig is an F350 and the trucks are the only ford vehicle I'd drive, but that pretty much goes for all of the Big 3, at least in terms of run of the mill stuff (more exotic rides are a different story).

My truck is great, but I also grasp the concept of diesel maintenance and how to treat it when running hard or towing, so I expect it should last a while. People that have issues with these typically just pound the snot out of it and don't keep up on maint.

[Nick_Ninja]

AMC Gremlin is the one that other's are judged by.

http://photocarsonline.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/amc-gremlin/7-amc-gremlin.jpg

[#1Townie]

Ford Pinto Station Wagon... there is no substitute

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii427/GregsGSXR/1978_ford_pinto_cruisesilver_001.jpg

god damn hippies!!!:scream1:

[jbnwc]

GM cars are still designed with wallowy suspensions, overly chunky controls, and an insulated cabin. All of the things I do not want out of my car. They feel heavy and sluggish, even when they aren't. They are built that way becuase thats their demographic, which is why great cars like the GTO and G8, as well as the G8 sportruck don't make the cut.

Euro cars are designed to feel connected to the road and the designs are carefully thought through which is why you only see major redesigns out of europe every 10 years. Asain cars are designed to be nimble and trendy (Nissan Cube anyone) which is why Honda has a corprate madate for a major redesign every 3 years.


I gotta disagree based on my experience: My 2003 Toyota Solara was soft and "wallowy" and had just as many creaks and rattles as any other car. I liked it anyway.

Also, my '99 VW Passat(/A4) was praised for it's handling, suspension, engine, and tranny; but the suspension bounced like a bad rapper, the engine had NOOO power below 3500 rpms and the tranny was programmed for mileage which made it enfuriating.

My Grand Prix GXP, however, has a phenomenal engine, great suspension(a bit on the hard side), and shifts exactly when I want it to shift.

[jbnwc]

Stop linking from that site. The pics are not working :)


They work for me!

[TheStig]

My last Toyota felt like crap on the inside, probably wont buy another. I really dont buy a car based on if its American or not, I just buy what I like. Currently drive a VW, wife has an Audi, parents have an audi...so Im euro trash all the way right now. My GTI has excellent interior, excellent steering, and looks BAMF. I do like the '10 Fusions though as well as the new Malibu.

[asp_125]

It's all about the Corinthian Leather baby!
http://www.tocmp.com/pix/images/1976ChryslerCordobaSportCoupe.jpg

[~Barn~]

I saw a new A5 on the road next to a new CTS-V and the CTS is way secsayer IMO.

And I thought I was the one that was high. :lol:
(I will own an S5 in the next 10 years)

But to each, their own.

[Zach929rr]

The new CTS-V is really a piece of work. Factory supercharged to the tune of 500hp, if I recall. My buddy has an '06 or '07 CTS-V and that thing can hang with any import, handling and power wise. Feels very connected to the road as well.


god damn hippies!!!:scream1:

Don't hate on the paint scheme.

[Matty]

give me the MB S-65 AMG. 612 hp, sedan. And i'll be a happy man.

[Canuck]

Mmmmmmm. AMG SL65 BLACK. :hump:

[chanke4252]

Why they decided to keep buick instead of pontiac is beyond me. I mean I know that they brought in more money per car than their other brands, but that's the sort of short term rationale that put them in this mess to begin with. "lets make as much money now as we can without thinking about tomorrow". It's much easier to retool the cars branded under a certain name than it is to completely change a brand's image. Buick will be thought of as an old man brand for at least the next 10 years realistically. So now they have the regular "chevy" brand, the luxo "cadillac" brand, and the half-assed old-man luxo "buick" brand. Great.

The only GM I would ever buy is a G8 or new GTO (monaro), and primarily because they aren't made in the US. I would think about a vette, but they have kind of an midlife crisis-mobile image imo, so I doubt I ever would.

I'll stick to my japanese and euro brands at least till ford brings their euro lineup to the US at which point I'll probably look at a couple of them as long as they don't butcher the next gen.

[jbnwc]

Why they decided to keep buick instead of pontiac is beyond me. I mean I know that they brought in more money per car than their other brands, but that's the sort of short term rationale that put them in this mess to begin with. "lets make as much money now as we can without thinking about tomorrow". It's much easier to retool the cars branded under a certain name than it is to completely change a brand's image. Buick will be thought of as an old man brand for at least the next 10 years realistically. So now they have the regular "chevy" brand, the luxo "cadillac" brand, and the half-assed old-man luxo "buick" brand. Great.

The only GM I would ever buy is a G8 or new GTO (monaro), and primarily because they aren't made in the US. I would think about a vette, but they have kind of an midlife crisis-mobile image imo, so I doubt I ever would.

I'll stick to my japanese and euro brands at least till ford brings their euro lineup to the US at which point I'll probably look at a couple of them as long as they don't butcher the next gen.

-because Buick is the number 1 brand in China. In fact, that is where the new LaCrosse was designed I hear.

and BTW - all your Japanese brands are made in the US. The majority of Euro SUV's are too.

[Captain Obvious]

I hate so many little features on my fiance's Corolla, I would not support her purchasing another. If she needs to purchase another in 10 years that is. 60,000 miles and she has had no problems at all. Oil, coolant, done.

My F150 on the other hand, add a new quart of oil every several months and I never have to actually CHANGE the oil. It is self flushing. Granted the old truck is 20+ years old. Lets see her little toyota haul us to go camping.

[Captain Obvious]

And the policy of building basically the same car with design tweaks has always seemed silly to me.

Camaro - Firebird
Eagle Talon - Mitsu Eclispe - Plymouth Laser (Ahhh, the long lived Laser experiment)
etc, etc

Seems costs could have been reduced significantly by sticking with one version of the car. Base model + trim variations.

[Badhabit]

Why? Because I've learned my lesson. Because American companies don't understand suspension and handling. Because American companies forgot how to make a timeless design rather than these cars that look revolutionary this year and dated the next. Because American manufacturers don't seem to get it right the first time and I don't like dealing with a recall every few months. Because the American automotive business model is severely flawed - all the profits come from parts and service and the vehicles are sold with little to no profit margin so how can I expect them to be reliable? Because GM takes the use of plastic way too far. Because instead of designing a well thought out vehicle they design a "platform" and then hang 50 different body styles on it.

I will agree that Buick is now and has been for many years an extremely reliable brand. I'm not sure how or why when GM seems to screw up everything else. My dad had a Buick for years and it was a good car but one that I'd never voluntarily drive. Buicks might have such high reliability because only old geezers drive them, and then only under 45mph, you don't rack up many miles going to church, doctor's appointments and the grocery store, and they are maintained by old men who keep records of their oil changes back to the great depression in a coffee can on their workbench.

[Filo]

It's all about the Corinthian Leather baby!
http://www.tocmp.com/pix/images/1976ChryslerCordobaSportCoupe.jpg


You want it???? You got it http://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/1258745320.html .

[#1Townie]

Don't hate on the paint scheme.

i dont i was talkin about the hippies in the back ground.. stinky fuckers..:scream1:

[Keepitgreen]

And I thought I was the one that was high. :lol:
(I will own an S5 in the next 10 years)

But to each, their own.

The SLine.. hmmm...

So I just got to Denver this morning about 5am from Austin..
I am driving this up to Bend OR for my next gig..

I was told there are only a few of these as they are promo rigs or something and the team snagged one.. Don't know if that's a true statement but that's what was told to me.
It is freakin nice.. I have no complaints about it..
Audi Q 7
V6 TDI
SLine

Not a bad team car..

I drive an 09 VW Jetta Sportwagen with a 2.5 inline 5 .. She's quick..

[~Barn~]

I nearly got a Q7, but they were a tad too spendy, and everything I read, said that they felt underpowered when having to move all that bulk.

The CX-9 by contrast was less expensive, and the output was a lot more highly praised. Either way, I love all Audi's. I definitely have an S5 in my future.

[Mel]

I'm a Euro snob till the end....sorry, but American cars, as a whole, just do not have the luxury and the handling of the European cars. Even the CTS-V that you keep talking about, while kinda fun, when compared to something like an Audi S6 or BMW M5, just does not have the handling, feels big, and has body roll. And yes, one of my good friends has one, so no I'm not just another dreaming asshat who likes it because it's supposed to be fast.
FWIW, I drive an Audi S4....4th Audi I've owned, 2nd S4, and you seriously can't compare. I am presently taking applications for a boy-toy who possesses either an S5 or an R8....RS6's would be considered as well. :D

[King Nothing]

556Hp, fastest sedan produced in the world.. six piston Brembos... :hump:it was the fastest until last week and the new porsche panamera went 'round the 'ring faster.http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/12/fun-while-it-lasted-porsche-panamera-turbo-reportedly-tops-cadi/

[Matt]

After 25 years of owning American cars, we now own a Toyota and a Subaru. Both of these cars have been bullet proof. I don't care what the press says, we've finally seen the light and don't ever plan to buy another American car.

[Drift]

...the new porsche panamera...

All I can say/do... :drool:

[Pandora-11]

...because my Hondas, Toyotas, and Lexus' stay out of the shop. That's all.

[King Nothing]

...because my Hondas, Toyotas, and Lexus' stay out of the shop. That's all.really, that's great. My Oldsmobile with 166k miles on the odo has some minor issues, but it stays out of the shop. (unless I don't pay attention and run it into a median on Broadway.) The E250 at work needed some ball joints once, but has never left me stranded. My SVT Focus was a reliable daily driver. Americans make good cars, and until narrow-minded douches like you realize that, the American car companies are screwed.

[Pandora-11]

really, that's great. My Oldsmobile with 166k miles on the odo has some minor issues, but it stays out of the shop. (unless I don't pay attention and run it into a median on Broadway.) The E250 at work needed some ball joints once, but has never left me stranded. My SVT Focus was a reliable daily driver. Americans make good cars, and until narrow-minded douches like you realize that, the American car companies are screwed.
My choices and experiences make me a narrow-minded douche?
Nice..

I'm happy that you're having a great time with American cars. I, on the other hand, have owned Chevys and Fords and an Audi....and have had nothing but trouble. I won't call you a douche because you haven't had trouble.

[King Nothing]

My choices and experiences make me a narrow-minded douche?
Nice..

I'm happy that you're having a great time with American cars. I, on the other hand, have owned Chevys and Fords and an Audi....and have had nothing but trouble. I won't call you a douche because you haven't had trouble.I too have owned all sorts of cars. Two accords, both great cars. ('91 Accord LX and a '98 Accord EX, 4-cyl, 5-speed) Two Subarus, one was great and ran like a top long after I sold it to someone on this board. The other subbie had a new engine installed after it ate its own guts. The second motor cracked. (It was a tank in the snow, though) The Chevy Bertetta, P.O.S. 2000 Tundra, HORRIBLE brakes and a V8 that sounded like it had glass in it on cold mornings. My VW? Typical glitchy german car that I loved. My '98 Accord EX V6? Worst. Brakes. EVER. Worst automatic transmission ever. '95 Nissan hardbody, I don't even know where to begin with that thing. 2000 Nissan Frontier was so bad, that I only had it for a month. So yeah, the American cars I have owned have been pretty good with the glaring exception of the Beretta, which I loved because it was the first car I ever actually bought for myself.
And, no, you're not a douche because of you car history. All of the retarded posts you make, make you a douche.

[Graybird]

Never had much luck with american cars except Jeeps. I know that Consumer Reports rapes them in all the stuff, but they have done right by me.

[Pandora-11]

I bow to the sharpness and higher intellect of YOUR posts. As for mine, don't read them. Your choice.

[THE3BS]

Call me a narrow minded douche. Back in 02 I spent almost 50k dollars on a Dodge Durango. In 1 year it was worth less then 20k dollars. After 3 years the transmission blew out. Thinking it was a fluke I bought another one. Guess what?.... Transmission blew out.

I pedaled to metal both Durangos a hand full of times. Literally a hand full of times and the transmissions blew up. The dealer told me I abused the transmission. Always changed the fluids on time and always babied them. Considering the Dodge 5.9 gets about 3 mpg if you drop the hammer I could not afford to drop the hammer.

My father as a devout Dodge man. He's got an 02 Ram 1500 and it now got 100k on the clock. Luckily he was smart and extended the warranty. In his first 35k he went through 2 engines and 1 transmission. After that the dealer seemed to get it right because he didn't have any problems until he hit 80k. He's recently been through 4 radiators and 2 heater cores. All done by the dealer.

My wife has a Toyota Camry I bought from my mother. In the 6 years my mother owned the car I replaced the brakes for her a few times and I bet the oil was only changed 5 or 6 times. When I bought the car from her she was complaining that it would leak oil all over. I asked her how long it had been since the oil had been changed. She informed me the last time I changed it. I hadn't changed her oil in over a year. The seal on the filter went bad it was spewing oil everywhere. I changed the oil and have every 3k since and that car runs like a Timex. It just keeps on ticking.

So call me a douche.. But based on real life experiences I buy what works for me.

On a side note I have an uncle that just took a job running a Toyota factory. He like the rest of his collegues make a crap load of money building a quality product and guess where they're doing it? Right here in the good ole USA.

[Pandora-11]

Thank you THE3BS

[King Nothing]

Nobody said anything about anything made by Chrysler. They make crap and have been making crap for decades. BTW, 50k on a Durango? Sucker.

[zetaetatheta]

really, that's great. My Oldsmobile with 166k miles on the odo has some minor issues, but it stays out of the shop. (unless I don't pay attention and run it into a median on Broadway.) The E250 at work needed some ball joints once, but has never left me stranded. My SVT Focus was a reliable daily driver. Americans make good cars, and until narrow-minded douches like you realize that, the American car companies are screwed.

I guess folks aren't allowed to have a different opinion than yours and if they do you resort to name calling. Well this douche makes my own decisions and I don't give a god damn rats ass about yours. As far as I'm concerned, America cars are shit compared to Japans offerings. I will never buy an American car as long as people with your attitude build them. I am sick of the folks that believe they know better and everyone else is stupid if they disagree. This applies to politics as well. So if anyone with a differing viewpoint than yours is a douche, then what does that make you the pussy.

[Nick_Ninja]

My 1985 Toyota 4-Runner has 243K miles on it. I rebuilt the engine less than 130K as it ran into some snorkel issues in a lake :D I also own a 2007 Toyota 4-Runner. What a difference between the two :lol:

[King Nothing]

I guess folks aren't allowed to have a different opinion than yours and if they do you resort to name calling. Well this douche makes my own decisions and I don't give a god damn rats ass about yours. As far as I'm concerned, America cars are shit compared to Japans offerings. I will never buy an American car as long as people with your attitude build them. I am sick of the folks that believe they know better and everyone else is stupid if they disagree. This applies to politics as well. So if anyone with a differing viewpoint than yours is a douche, then what does that make you the pussy.
It's not my fault your opinion is wrong.

[Zach929rr]

It's not my fault your opinion is wrong.

You are an idiot.

[King Nothing]

You are an idiot.:spit: Ouch. That really cut me deep. :lol:

[Zach929rr]

Yes, it was meant to cut to the core of you. Your ignorance just struck me as noteworthy.

[Stuart Little]

Call me a narrow minded douche. Back in 02 I spent almost 50k dollars on a Dodge Durango...

So call me a douche..

You're a douche... 50k for a durango eh?

[BrandonR1]

Been driving mopar's for years, dont plan on stopping anytime soon just because consumer reports says a toyota is better... they can suck it.

none of them can build a real truck anyways, just wannabe's.

[The Black Knight]

Been driving mopar's for years, dont plan on stopping anytime soon just because consumer reports says a toyota is better... they can suck it.

none of them can build a real truck anyways, just wannabe's.
I'm going to have to agree with that statement. I think when it comes to the truck segment, it's about the only thing America still owns. Chevy, Dodge and Ford's heavy duty trucks are all superior in my opinion and probably always will be. Granted they may each have their minor problems, but they are way ahead of what Japan has to offer when it comes to trucks.

I think Japan makes a very good effort in offering trucks that fit different types of buyers. But I also think the American companies offer trucks for just about everyone. Sure Toyota has the Tacoma and Nissan has it's Frontier. But Ford and Dodge offer the Ranger and Dakota(which is the only one out of the four to offer V8 power). I think the midsize truck battle is pretty tight between the manufactures and each side have their pros and cons.

As far as full size goes, I think this is where Japan loses. No matter how much they hype the Tundra and Titan, they still can't compete in the 3/4 ton class eventhough both Toyota and Nissan say they cross the half ton/three quarter ton barrier. It doesn't happen that way and sure if you compare the Tundra to a Gas powered American truck, yeah it does o.k. But Chevy's 6.2L will still beat it and we aren't talking about the Diesel motors yet.

Which is why I don't understand why Toyota and Nissan bill these trucks to compete with the 3/4 ton Americans. Because if you want to go pound for pound and buy either sides truck completely loaded. Well then, the race is over once you cram a Cummins or Duramax or even a Powerstroke(bottom of the list for me in Diesels)in the engine bay. Yeah the Tundra is rated at 401lb of torque, but it still can only town right around 10000lbs. Well jump into a Cummins and now you've got 650lbs of torque and towing capacites closer to 15000lbs. We ain't even talking 1 tons yet(I've heard of guys towing 29000lbs with their Cummins!!), or my favorite Dually's.

Granted I'm bias, because I think America still builds the better trucks(full size and heavy duty) and when it comes to trucks, that's all I'll ever own(and have owned). The midsize is a tough call, I had a 02 Tacoma for awhile. Wasn't a bad truck, ran great and was dependable. Couldn't haul much and that's what kind of turned me off. I've seen Dakota's and Ranger's hold more and that's what did it. Plus being a taller and bigger guy I didn't like the room inside. I'm a full size truck guy, always have been and always will be.

As far as the cars go. Yeah I'm going to have to give the win to Japan and Europe. They just make better cars and tend to have more of a variety of them. Not saying that American cars suck. In my opinion, Ford makes probably the best cars in America. Love their Focus, Mustang ain't bad either. Their Fusion and 500 are bad ass and love their designs. Can't say as Chevy makes can cars I'd buy other than the Camaro and when it comes to Dodge. Well lets say they should just stick to making the Ram trucks and that's about it. I hate Dodge's cars, they don't make one I'd buy ever. They all look the same and each model is just a bigger version of the one under it. Even the Challenger is busted in my opinion.

About the only import car I'd buy is Japan. Eventhough I think Europe makes some very nice cars. I'd never own one. Just don't care for anything Germany has to offer. BMW's just scream old man car, Benz's are sterile and Audi's are bland. All well made cars, just not my cup of tea.

I'm more of an Italian car guy. Love Ferrari's but will never afford one. And I'd probably sell my left nut for a DB9(in dark silver of course). But from what I can afford, I'll drive a STi or EVO way before I'll buy anything German. And that's only after I've already gone through American cars first.

So yeah I'm American cars/trucks through and through. But don't think anyone is bad for buying Foreign. I figure buy what you like and drive it.

[Captain Obvious]

Lets not forget, Europe and Asia make plenty of cars that are comparable or sub-par to American manufacturers. So before everyone convinces themselves that all European brands are polished, built for handling, etc, gotta remember, we already have our midgrade vehicles produced here, the US only imports the luxury brands. Why import and overpay for a vehicle that will be equal in reliability to what we build locally? We just don't see many import brands such as Puegeot, Renault, Lancia, Fiats, etc, on every corner due to the economics. Hell, even American manufacturers build cars there which are equal to vehicles build on US soil, just badged differently.

There are also plenty of Asian cars that are built like crap as well.
http://www.automotive-links.com/mak/mak/asi.htm
Anyone ever actually drive a Tata? All the folks I work with prefer American cars to what they make back home.

[EVO8]

[quote=The Black Knight;481942]

Which is why I don't understand why Toyota and Nissan bill these trucks to compete with the 3/4 ton Americans.
quote]

Toyota and Nissan didn't built their full size line to compete against 3/4 tons. They built them to complete against 1/2 tons. I personally think they did a great job.

[The Black Knight]

[quote=The Black Knight;481942]

Which is why I don't understand why Toyota and Nissan bill these trucks to compete with the 3/4 ton Americans.
quote]

Toyota and Nissan didn't built their full size line to compete against 3/4 tons. They built them to complete against 1/2 tons. I personally think they did a great job.
I beg to differ, I've heard more then a few stories from Toyota dealers and even been present when a few were told about how the Tundra can take on anything a Duramax will. HAHAHA o.k.

And if I'm not mistaken but when the Titan was first introduced it was sort of hyped that it was a 1/2 ton that could do what 3/4 tons do. It's been awhile though, since I've seen anything on the Titan.

Look I'm sure they are great trucks. But the big drawback to the Tundra and Titan are the prices for what you get. If I wanted to go drop close to $50K on a Tundra(yeah completely loaded they approach $50k) and only get a half ton for $50k, I think it's a waste of money. I can take that same $50k and go buy a Chevy Duramax 1 ton or a Dodge Cummins 1 ton and have way more truck for the money.

Seriously look at it. Why would you go drop $40k to $50k on a Tundra, when that same amount can get you way more truck and a way better truck??? Look I'm not saying they aren't built nice or reliable. But the moment you put 15000 to 20000lbs on a Tundra/Titan, you'll flatten one like a pancake.

Like I say, nice trucks, very reliable and built well. But for the money you shell out for a Japan truck, you end up taking it in the shorts because you could have way more and better of a truck if you bought American. Any way you slice it man.

I mean even the Tacoma, being the cool little truck it is. Can run you close to $35k+ if you get one loaded. Man I can get a basic/fleet packaged 3/4 ton with a Diesel in it for that price. So you do the math on that one. $35k for a Japanese Mid size truck that isn't even a 1/2 ton or an American 3/4 ton with a Diesel that will tow your house.

And yeah, I get the fact that some guys who do buy the Japanese trucks like to thumb their nose at American truck guys. But personally, I think the only thing they are thumbing their nose at, is their wallets. Cause they are paying alot for basically nothing special in my opinion.

But to each their own....

[Nerves]

it was the fastest until last week and the new porsche panamera went 'round the 'ring faster.http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/12/fun-while-it-lasted-porsche-panamera-turbo-reportedly-tops-cadi/

That has a similar sexiness to the Dodge Charger. I'm sure it will be an extra 40K for the Porsche though.

[puckstr]

Fuck GM
http://tcritic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/governmentmotors.jpg

[Ricky]

Americans make good cars, and until narrow-minded douches like you realize that, the American car companies are screwed.

That's a BROAD statement.

Sorry, but 12 warranty trips in 18 months doesn't mean "american quality", to me. Yeah, I gave american cars a chance, and I fucking NEVER will again. Because they suck. I've owned Ford, Chevy and Chrysler. They were all pieces of shit. The Chrysler was the worst of them all. 2 bad MAF sensors, broken seat latches, replaced instrument cluster, multiple ECU flashes, rear drum brake noise, leaking shifter solenoid, snapped shifter cable, and more in only 15k miles. That's just the Chrysler. The other two aren't even worth talking about.

I've had a 95 Tacoma for the last 6 years and put almost 100k on it. It's got 223k miles on it now. Doesn't leak or burn oil. Runs quiet like the day it was purchased. I have beat the living FUCK out of it just like I did my Chrysler, by driving it to the mountains for boarding, every weekend in the winter. It has never failed to start for me. It has never left me stranded (unlike all 3 of my american pieces of shit). It has cost me plenty of money to replace the typical wear and tear parts, but that's to be expected. More than anything, my Toyota is reliable.

Then there's my CBR. Same as the yota. Granted, it's brand new, but it's never given me a single problem. I've had 2 Mitsubishi's in the last 2 years, and they were both flawless as well, except that I had a MAF sensor go bad in my Evo. Otherwise, I drive the hell out of all of my jap vehicles and they don't give me any of the problems that any of my american pieces of shit did. (except for the MAF sensor on the Evo, but that was due to the previous owner using an oiled air filter)

My boss owns an 06 Vette Z06, and he's about to sell the thing after having it only 2 years, and 4k miles. He's had more issues with it than I've had with all of my current vehicles combined. He has 3 other Toyotas (Prius, FJ, Sequoia), and hasn't had a single problem with any of them.

My neighbor has a chevy truck that is as old as my Tacoma, and he just replaced the engine in it after only 198k miles. He is the only owner. Once again, doesn't compare to the yota.

In my experience, american vehicles just don't compare in quality and reliability, even though there are some out there that will last forever.

[McVaaahhh]

After reading all the posts and name callings and all the other B.S. I think people as a whole buy what serves them the best.

A vehicle is typically your second biggest purchase next to a house so you buy what you want and what will treat you the best. All manufacturers have the "lemons" and their shiners so experience definitely vary. I'm a truck man myself and have been very pleased with the full size American Trucks and SUV's. I'll never buy an American car again just because of the resale value.

My history:
1987 Nissan 2wd pickup: Owned it for five years and I guarantee it's still going. No problems with that. In fact, it's the one vehicle I wish I still had.
1998 Nissan Frontier 4x4 4cyl. Only had it a year and had a couple of small, cosmetic issues covered by warranty. The only vehicle I ever bought brand new.
1997 Dodge Dakota 4x4. With the 5.3 V8 that thing was an animal and I loved it. However, it was in the shop monthly and went through 2 transmissions in one year. I will never own another Chrysler.
2000 Ford F150 4x4. Great truck. I put 80k on it in 5 years and sold it with 115k on it. Had one issue with a warped header that cost me $400. that was it.
2001 Chevy Tahoe Z71. My current ride. I've had it 3 years and it currently has 90k on it. Only issue was a leaking head gasket that I had to pay to get replaced $300. Other than that I've really enjoyed the truck and would buy another one.
2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GT. My wife's current car. She bought it new in '04 and it now has 60k on it. No major problems with the car, although the fit and finish sucks. Only problem is the resale. The sticker was $25k and it's now worth about $6k. :down: Next car we buy will probably be a Lexus.

The only vehicle that I've owned that had major quality issues is the Dakota and as such I'll never own a Dodge again. It's just too much money to risk throwing away on another POS.

We'll probably always have a truck and a car. For the forseeable future I plan on buying American 4x4's and Japanese cars.

[TheStig]

KIA FTW!!!!
















jk

[McVaaahhh]

Screw Kia's Yugo's man!

http://www.stangbangers.com/Yugo_Ad.jpg

[Mental]

I have a buddy in Texas who buys those in bulk, builds a Megasquirt DIY engine managment for them, turbos them and ends up with a sub 14 sec car for less than $1000

[Filo]

I'm going to have to agree with that statement. I think when it comes to the truck segment, it's about the only thing America still owns. Chevy, Dodge and Ford's heavy duty trucks are all superior in my opinion and probably always will be.

Most of what you said, I agree with although my personal tastes are a little different. However, I don't know that I would say the trucks always will be better. Until the American companies (and workers) start realizing that the way you stay ahead is by R&D, long term investment and listening to your employees as opposed to short term tricks for the stock market and untenable compensation packages (for both upper management and the union worker), they will continue the down hill slide. I would not be surprised to see the Japanese and even the South Koreans and Indians putting out really good heavy duty trucks in the next 10 years. If the competition keeps advancing and the US companies keep resting on their laurels, they will be done.

Or, for another view point, it will go this way: in order to combat the increasingly expensive proposition of making cars all the companies will start to specialize. Cummings and Honda will make motors, the big three will design bodies, Tata, Chery, Changfeng and Kia/Hyundai will fabricate platforms, and various makes will style and brand the output. Boutique brands like Ferrari, Porsche, Bugatti will either go away or cater only to the extremely wealthy. That Ford F-350 Diesel Dually will be brought to you by Cummings/GM/Ford/Tata and will be imported from Mexico. It may not be correct, but it is definitely a possibility.

[I`m Batman]

I travel a lot for business, so I get a lot of rental cars. Most of them are MODERN American cars. I would say falls into something that the average Joe would buy or can afford. All my rentals are full size BTW. And THEY ARE ALL CRAP! Once in a blue moon I would run into a place that have some Japanese and I would jump on those in a second. They generally drives and handle better and I feel safer in them because I can feel what the car is doing and have better control overall. The Maxima is awesome vs 300, charger, magnum, impalas, new malibu, G6 which I are POS to name a few.

Now I'm comparing the modern cars and the current models that are available today not what used to be 10 years ago. Impala SS is stupid BTW. Who was the genius that makes a FWD V8? No wonder they're going out of business.

Oh, and sometimes I get Volvo too, s40 and s60. Those are nice to drive too. Not powerful but nice.

[I`m Batman]

Or maybe because most normal American cars are just plain ugly and most people probably couldn't get over the fact that the car is ugly and never give it a chance.

[Captain Obvious]

Oh, and sometimes I get Volvo too, s40 and s60. Those are nice to drive too. Not powerful but nice.

You should try the S60R. :) Plenty of giddy-up.

[Tipys]

Ok best statement I have ever heard of the subject came from a Ford Service writer. "I don't care who makes it, it can brake."

Now I myself love Euro cars, American trucks (Never a gas truck), Jap cars as long time drivers not trying to race them, and Old School American Muscles Cars.

I myself have owned.
1990 Honda Accord 300k miles still ran great just crashed it.
2004 Chevy Cavilar totaled 8 days after buying
2004 Mit Lancer 40k miles That I drove the wheels off most of the time and went throw 3 clutches, clutch master cyclinder, and a whole transmission in the 3 years that I owned it.
2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 90k only problem I have had was a new transmission but that was all my own fault.



No to those who feel everyone should buy American because it gives Americans jobs. Foreign cars have given more Americans jobs then any of the big 3 have.



And King Nothing all your comments are VOID. Unless you go sell your SV for a Harley Davidson in the next few days.

[I`m Batman]

You should try the S60R. :) Plenty of giddy-up.

I would love to but I don't think they rent those out. :(

[King Nothing]

And King Nothing all your comments are VOID. Unless you go sell your SV for a Harley Davidson in the next few days.Can I get a Buell?

[Captain Obvious]

I would love to but I don't think they rent those out. :(


You could always go test drive one weekend. When we were poor sailors with nothing better to do, that is how we would spend the weekends. Yet I digress, after I test drove a S60R, I was hooked and purchased after research.

[sergio]

I really enjoyed reading this thread, some truly passionate automotive beliefs.

As far as my history:
90 Civic - no problems at all and I drove that car like a mad man, insane 20 sec 1/4 times, smokin the competition, kazillion miles on it

97 Acura CL - head gasket blew at 120,000 miles, that could have been avoided if I replaced my slightly torn coolant hose after I first noticed it, easy fix anyway, picked up a gasket for $30 and replaced it, it actually started after I was done

05 and 08 Scion XB, no problems, one had low miles and the other I bought new

08 Mazda CX7 - no problems, very low miles, quick little turbo, a little laggy at take off due to the turbo, amazing handling for an SUV/Crossover

05 ranger FX4 - some yoke thing in the transmission went out at 46,000 miles, fixed under extended warranty. Without the warranty, I would be SOL, on the plus side, the truck did well offroad and great at climbing curbs, got an 09 Focus as a rental, not a bad little car for the couple of days I had it.

07 Mazda 6 - no problems, good handling as well

Mazda is/was (not really sure if they still own it) technically a Ford, I like the design alot more and better handling than there Ford counterparts.

As far as friends, most have honda/toyota cars and no problems, especially Toyota Tacoma and 4runner; those seem to be real winners even after offroad abuse. Another friend has a late model Impala approaching 80000 miles and no issues at all. Some cars are complete crap however for modern cars; I believe good maintenance can go real far. Luckily all my recent cars were low mileage, if I had to go with a high mileage car, I would probably lean towards Honda, they are easy to work on even though that doesn’t seem to be necessary for most owners due to exceptional reliability and motors are readily available.

[Tipys]

Can I get a Buell?

Yes a Buell would count.

[rforsythe]

Or, for another view point, it will go this way: in order to combat the increasingly expensive proposition of making cars all the companies will start to specialize. Cummings and Honda will make motors, the big three will design bodies, Tata, Chery, Changfeng and Kia/Hyundai will fabricate platforms, and various makes will style and brand the output. Boutique brands like Ferrari, Porsche, Bugatti will either go away or cater only to the extremely wealthy. That Ford F-350 Diesel Dually will be brought to you by Cummings/GM/Ford/Tata and will be imported from Mexico. It may not be correct, but it is definitely a possibility.

What do you think happens now? My F-350 diesel engine is made by International. Dodge uses the Cummins obviously. Not sure what GM uses, but I doubt they made their own. Pretty sure a good portion of it comes from Mexico now.

Ferrari/Porsche/Bugatti/etc already cater to the wealthy; why is your future prediction any different? Wealthy people will continue to have a lot of money; that's what happens when you and I buy stuff. It ultimately ends up buying some guy a Ferrari.

Thanks for your predictions of .... now. good job. :)

[Filo]

Thanks for your predictions of .... now. good job. :)

You are welcome. Actually, you are just jealous of my greatness. It happens.

On to the real answer - Now GM , Honda, etc, still make the whole shebang to some extent. Sure, individual components get outsourced (like windshields, electronics, etc). I meant in the future they will only make a specific part. Honda will make only engines. All the bodies will be bought by someone else and Honda will sell its engines to other companies (kind of like the new Buell's engine). Ford will ONLY design bodies. Tata and the other asian companies will ONLY put together parts from other manufacturers. None of the current car companies will make the whole car except for the boutique players. That is what I meant. It is certainly trending that way, as you pointed out. I am just saying it will go all the way.

Oh, and can you add a tongue sticking out smilie? I need one.

[The Black Knight]

What do you think happens now? My F-350 diesel engine is made by International. Dodge uses the Cummins obviously. Not sure what GM uses, but I doubt they made their own. Pretty sure a good portion of it comes from Mexico now.

Yeah Chevy's and GMC's use the Duramax diesel, with the Allison transmission. They don't make the Duramax, it's a Isuzu motor. Used in many of their larger convoy and moving trucks. Excellent motor and with the Allison it's tough to beat.

If I'm not mistaken on Ford but International only made the 7.3 Powerstrokes. The 6.0 and 6.4(up until this year) were all made by Ford(which is probably why they've had such hiccups with those motors). From what I gather the new 09 Powerstrokes are back to being made by International. Which is odd that they have them make the Powerstroke for one final year and then switch to the new Navistar Scorpion in 2010. Although I think International is going to have a had in the new Scorpion.

Another funny tidbit is that Ford actually owns Cummins. However, due to Cummins contract with Dodge, Ford can't put the Cummins in their trucks. Now if/when that contract expires, I'm sure Ford is going to pay through the nose to land the new one. If they do, the Ford will be one bad ass truck with a Cummins in it.

[longrider]

If I'm not mistaken on Ford but International only made the 7.3 Powerstrokes. The 6.0 and 6.4(up until this year) were all made by Ford(which is probably why they've had such hiccups with those motors). From what I gather the new 09 Powerstrokes are back to being made by International. Which is odd that they have them make the Powerstroke for one final year and then switch to the new Navistar Scorpion in 2010. Although I think International is going to have a had in the new Scorpion.


For the record International is just a DBA for Navistar, the Powerstroke is more commonly referred to as a Navistar engine. Also to the best of my knowledge the Powerstroke has always been made by Navistar.

[The Black Knight]

For the record International is just a DBA for Navistar, the Powerstroke is more commonly referred to as a Navistar engine. Also to the best of my knowledge the Powerstroke has always been made by Navistar.
That's cool, I'm not completely up on the Powerstroke(as it would be my last choice in a diesel). But from what I've read and heard/seen, if you're going to get one. Get a 7.3(last of the reliable ones), the 6.0's and 6.4's are big piles. Which I do know for a fact because every guy at my work that either has one for a fleet work truck or their own personal truck, hate em. I've seen the 6.0's on more than one occasion not start during a cold winter day(and yes this is later in the day if not plugged in). One of our construction crew guys has the new 6.4 for his work truck. It's already been down for several problems. Our welder has already went through a turbo and injectors on his 6.0.

From what I understand it's the 6.0 that you want to stay away from. I'm sure there are some good ones out there. But everyone that I know that's either had a 6.0 or has one now, hate the things.

I'd take the Duramax or Cummins any day over the Powerstroke. Which is sad because Ford really does make a nice truck. They just need a better motor. If the only ones that are worth anything are the 7.3's(which are turds compared to the Duramax and Cummins in power), I still wouldn't get one because of their age(have to go back into the late 90's or early 2000's for one).

[#1Townie]

i wove amerecaa

[jbnwc]

Impala SS is stupid BTW. Who was the genius that makes a FWD V8? No wonder they're going out of business.


I think a v8 FWD is brilliant and I'll tell you why - The competition for the SS, GXP, and Super don't have one. Their competition is all FWD 4-6 cylinders. I personally own a GXP and love it because I could have been stuck with a wimpy Altima, Maxima or other v6 FWD sedan. Instead, I have a lower mileage, newer, waaaay more powerful, V8-rumbling baby hauler and can still get around just as easily in the snow. The 1% of the time when I want to do donuts in the parking lot I am sad, but otherwise I love it.

That said, I hope my next car is RWD for that 1% of the time!

[chanke4252]

-because Buick is the number 1 brand in China. In fact, that is where the new LaCrosse was designed I hear.

and BTW - all your Japanese brands are made in the US. The majority of Euro SUV's are too.

So then they should have reorganized regionally based on that sort of thing. They already have brands that are region specific, which is what they should have done if it is the case that Buick is big in China rather than trying to change a brand's image everywhere else. I mean they're already battling the whole "gm sucks" image, it just doesn't make much sense to pile on more image changes that will take more time than they realistically have.

Depends on the model. There are a number of cars that are really only marketable in the states, and many of those are built here. Besides, the final build quality depends on design quite a bit. Design a car that has very little room for error during assembly, and then have it assembled by a union notorious for it's shitty and sloppy work, and then you have a real piece of crap on your hands. There is a reason that the US built japanese cars have been consistently better than the equivalent US built domestic cars.

Even so, japanese quality is slipping and newer hondas are absolute trash, regardless of where they are built. We'll all be buying korean in a few years.