why tape lights & mirrors for track?

[drago52]

Quick question about track days and racing. Why tape over or remove mirrors for track days? It seems like all the other automotive racing leagues (F1, nascar, rally racing, etc.) use mirrors. Is it a safety concern for crashing and not showering the track with glass? Same question for lights...

I think I posted this in the wrong section, but I don't see how to move it.

[dapper]

6 Pee's of Life: Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

Look where we want to go, not where we were just at.
Glass cuts tires, hands and isn't fun to find in swimming pools either.

[drago52]

Look where we want to go, not where we were just at.

That makes sense for track days, but what about racing? Seems like a racer could make use of blocking maneuvers better if he knew exactly what the rider behind him was doing (as in preventing block passes, etc.).

[jplracing]

Well the way I read your question there are really two questions that need to be answered

1. Your mirrors

One of the first rules you should be taught when riding the track is to never look behind you and always always look ahead of you. I would assume that you are wanting to view who is coming up behind you so that you can move out of the way...big no no. Whether racing or track riding, it is always the faster riders responsiblity to over take the slower rider safely. Part of doing this is to predict were the slower rider is going to be..thus holding your line. If you are attempting to move out of the way there are times when the faster rider can only guess as to were you will move...at best the faster rider has a 50/50 chance of guessing right...if he guesses wrong you can imagine what will happen. So in short you are alway looking in front of you never behind

2. Why tape up lights/turn signals etc..

You are partially right in that if you crash the tape will hopefully help in not spreading debre (sp?) across the track which aids in clean up time.

However, your brake light and be very distracting to a faster rider behind you. Chances are you will hit your brakes earlier than the next guy. The guy behind you will always have a 'oh shit' moment if he is still accelerating right behind you and you are braking

Hopefully my rambling makes sense...if not ask

Thanks

Joe

[McVaaahhh]

Part of his question was would the mirrors be useful if you were battling for position and could use your mirrors to see where the other rider was coming to effectively block him from overtaking. (Common practice in all automobile racing)

My guess would be that the mirrors would do more harm (additional drag) than good. :dunno:

[jplracing]

That makes sense for track days, but what about racing? Seems like a racer could make use of blocking maneuvers better if he knew exactly what the rider behind him was doing (as in preventing block passes, etc.).

You typed this one while I was typing my last response

1st..blocking is chicken shit. If the guy can pass you he is faster on that day and that is the way it is

2nd blocking can often lead to contact between the two riders...as it does often with motocross/supercross. More at stake to crash at a high rate of speed on the roadrace track than a slower motocross corner

now I am not saying it doesn't happen in road racing, but from my experience I know who is around me at any given time on the track so I really don't need mirrors to tell me if someone I am racing with is right there

[= Buckeye Jess =]

From what I was told was that it prevents the glass debris being spread all over, but in some (lucky) cases it might also prevent the glass/plastic from breaking at all.

Going with jpl as well....everytime I've asked about being passed and whatnot - I was specifically told in no uncertain terms that in being passed my only responsibility is to be predictable and to HOLD MY LINE! This way the rider passing me knows where I'm going to be going and it is their responsibility to pass me accordingly and safely.

[drago52]

1st..blocking is chicken shit. If the guy can pass you he is faster on that day and that is the way it is

So are you saying that we should shake our heads in disdain when we see Rossi or Lorenzo or Stoner taking a less optimal line to prevent blockpassing? I thought racers took different lines when they don't have to worry about someone braking hard on the inside late, then taking a slow line (fast in, slow out) and holding up the optimum line.


2nd blocking can often lead to contact between the two riders...as it does often with motocross/supercross. More at stake to crash at a high rate of speed on the roadrace track than a slower motocross corner

now I am not saying it doesn't happen in road racing, but from my experience I know who is around me at any given time on the track so I really don't need mirrors to tell me if someone I am racing with is right there

I think I get this. After you've been on the track for a while, you get to know where the guy is behind you without needing mirrors. I remember an interview with Lorenzo about a last-lap, last-corner pass a few races ago by Rossi and him saying "well, I really didn't think he'd take me, but I guess he was just more aggressive than I expected". Seems like Lorenzo could have done with some mirrors. haha

[Bueller]

So are you saying that we should shake our heads in disdain when we see Rossi or Lorenzo or Stoner taking a less optimal line to prevent blockpassing? I thought racers took different lines when they don't have to worry about someone braking hard on the inside late, then taking a slow line (fast in, slow out) and holding up the optimum line.




MotoGP is not club level racing

[Kitten]

MotoGP is not club level racing

This is very true. There are different lines in racing at all levels, but that still doesn't mean you look back. As was stated you know where you are in the race and you know where your competition is so you choose your like accordingly. In the last turn in Germany last week Rossi chose a very defensive line through the last turn making it nearly impossible for Lorenzo to pass.

Looking back, especially at most peoples level can lead to very dangerous outcomes. I crashed at a track because I was too worried about what was behind me and changing my line as an outcome. Learned a very valuable lesson.

[dirkterrell]

So are you saying that we should shake our heads in disdain when we see Rossi or Lorenzo or Stoner taking a less optimal line to prevent blockpassing? I thought racers took different lines when they don't have to worry about someone braking hard on the inside late, then taking a slow line (fast in, slow out) and holding up the optimum line.


There's a big difference between taking a defensive line from the start and changing your line mid-turn to block someone (or allow them to pass).

Dirk

[UglyDogRacing]

So are you saying that we should shake our heads in disdain when we see Rossi or Lorenzo or Stoner taking a less optimal line to prevent blockpassing? I thought racers took different lines when they don't have to worry about someone braking hard on the inside late, then taking a slow line (fast in, slow out) and holding up the optimum line.

I think I get this. After you've been on the track for a while, you get to know where the guy is behind you without needing mirrors. I remember an interview with Lorenzo about a last-lap, last-corner pass a few races ago by Rossi and him saying "well, I really didn't think he'd take me, but I guess he was just more aggressive than I expected". Seems like Lorenzo could have done with some mirrors. haha

From the MRA rulebook and you will see the same rule in just about every organization in the country-



Section 10 - ON TRACK REGULATIONS
C. Any rider who appears to be deliberately blocking another motorcycle attempting to pass, or is observed to be riding rough and/or dangerously will be penalized or disqualified. This is a judgment call by MRA officials and is not protestable.

As Joe said, purposely blocking is chicken shit. And trying to compare it to Rossi and Lorenzo is a poor comparison. A motogp rider who is paid millions taking a defensive line while fighting for a podium spot is not blocking. And if Lorenzo did have mirrors he would have been passed earlier or most likely crashed because of being more concerned about whats going on behind him instead of whats in front.

[Valguard]

+1 to uglydogracing & dirkterrell.

Bottom line is, you don't need it. And if you don't need it in racing, you get ride of it.

[swademaster]

I crashed at a track because I was too worried about what was behind me and changing my line as an outcome. Learned a very valuable lesson.

When did you go down on the track? On the track bike I would guess?

[Kitten]

Nope it was a long time ago when I had the buell.

[drago52]

Cool, thanks for all the input. I didn't really define what I meant by blocking or level of racing. Unfortunately, my title was ambiguous and I posted this in the MRA category. Really I was just referring to the defensive lines taken by the pros in motogp (and likewise for F1). I don't race motorcycles, but I do track days and appreciate the skill and expertise by those who race.

[BigE]

Just think of it this way...if you think of the time it takes to see what's actually going on behind you and applied it to looking ahead, then maybe the guy that was going to pass you wouldn't be able to catch up in the first place.

[nwatkins]

If you had mirrors, you would be looking in the right one and get passed on the left. Just pay attention to your line and be faster.

[swademaster]

Nope it was a long time ago when I had the buell.

I forgot about that.

[The GECCO]

The original logic/need for taping lights is pretty much behind us, as nothing in the lighting system of most modern sportbikes is actually made of glass any longer. People still do it because "that's how it's always been done".

The mirrors are done, as others have said, to keep you looking forward and not worrying about what's behind you.

As for the brake lights, I've heard both sides. Some say it's a distraction, others not. Some of the racers I've heard from actually LIKE to be able to see the brake lights on lapping days because it gives them even more warning that someone who may not be running at "race pace" is on the brakes earlier than may be expected. This actually helps prevent the "oh shit" moment that occurs when you realize that your closing rate just quadrupled because the guy in front of you is on the binders earlier than expected. On a lapping day, when there are lots of different talent levels and lots of riders who aren't too familiar with each other, more information is usually a good thing.

I wouldn't take it as far as saying I think it's necessary to re-install the brake lights on racebikes, but for the most part at an actual race event the riders know a lot more about who they are riding with based on what session/race they're in or whatever...it's just a different environment.

And I agree with the others that there's an enormous difference between "taking a defensive line" and "blocking". Taking a defensive line is simply an ACTION, blocking is a REACTION.