Crashing on group rides

[TFOGGuys]

What's your excuse?

[Mental]

Sorry...I was drunk....

[mtnairlover]

Brain aneurysm?

[Nick_Ninja]

Couldn't it be considered job security Jim?

[t_jolt]

Everyone that i've seen crash on a ride, pushed it a little to far. as when it was all said and done, they would even say so themselves. on the other hand, how are you to get any better without pushing yourself to a new level?

Tyrel

[mtnairlover]

Had a friend help me to completely break down and diagnose my crashes and each one of them had to do with me thinking I was going too wide, when all I needed to do was lean a little more and continue looking. It also had to do with the width of the road....most definitely the width. And because I freaked, I ended up fixating.

Now, since having that conversation, I've been taking it much easier on narrow roads.

[Devaclis]

Why is "I like to waste money" not up there?

[TFOGGuys]

Sorry...I was drunk....
You're excused. Next.


Brain aneurysm?
Not buying that one.:) Next.


Couldn't it be considered job security Jim?
Crash repair is never how I wanna see my customers return, Jeff. I prefer to just sell 'em tires and other consumables.

Everyone that i've seen crash on a ride, pushed it a little to far. as when it was all said and done, they would even say so themselves. on the other hand, how are you to get any better without pushing yourself to a new level?

Tyrel

It should be possible to expand one's abilities without exceeding one's limits. In my mind, it's never acceptable to crash on the street due to "pushing".

[SaShWhO]

shit happens.

[64BonnieLass]

Too much ego and trying to keep up outside of your boundries, seems to get people every time.

[Matty]

What about Mountain Dew bottles being on the road!?!?!?!?!

Just Kidding Carrie!!!



Tough to say why some people go down, could be debree in the road, could be lack of skills, could be they have their head up their ass. Who knows?

I've seen some really good riders go down for no apparent reason.

Out of the excuses given, i would have to say not riding your own pace has to be one of the more common reason for someone to go down.

[asp_125]

We think we're better than we really are. Overconfidence resulting in too much speed or speed inappropriate for the conditions. Crashes in the canyons are usually the result of a bad decision; not looking ahead for sand, trying to make a sketchy pass, trying to keep up with the group and not riding your own ride. Usually riding at 10/10ths doesn't leave you with much left over for emergencies.

[Snowman]

Randomly discarded Mountain Dew bottles? :)

[Matty]

We think we're better than we really are. Overconfidence resulting in too much speed or speed inappropriate for the conditions. Crashes in the canyons are usually the result of a bad decision; not looking ahead for sand, trying to make a sketchy pass, trying to keep up with the group and not riding your own ride. Usually riding at 10/10ths doesn't leave you with much left over for emergencies.
:imwithstupid:

[rforsythe]

You need another poll option: "The amount of ego present in a group ride increases exponentially according to the number of riders present."

For that reason I've all but stopped going on group rides unless I know everyone showing up. I have nothing to prove, and get tired of watching other people try to run into each other.

[Devaclis]

You need another poll option: "The amount of ego present in a group ride increases exponentially according to the number of riders present."

For that reason I've all but stopped going on group rides unless I know everyone showing up. I have nothing to prove, and get tired of watching other people try to run into each other.

Not entirely true. The group that I ride with now does not have this issue. It did not have this issue to begin with either. If it is 2 in the group or 6 like we normally have, there is no ego issue while riding. Of course we are all a little different than the average "holy crap I just got a new gickser and I just turned 18 and I am looking to go really fast let's ride!!!" CSC rider I have encountered lately. I am going to have to say that failing to keep the bike off the ground leads to crashing 100% of the time.

[Horsman]

I forgot to put on my Invincibility Cape and Devout Shoulders on before the ride??? and my intimidating shout could cause someone to wreck too... :(

[Sean]

99% of the time it's people riding above their level for that situation.
1% for shit happening.

[rforsythe]

Not entirely true. The group that I ride with now does not have this issue. It did not have this issue to begin with either. If it is 2 in the group or 6 like we normally have, there is no ego issue while riding. Of course we are all a little different than the average "holy crap I just got a new gickser and I just turned 18 and I am looking to go really fast let's ride!!!" CSC rider I have encountered lately. I am going to have to say that failing to keep the bike off the ground leads to crashing 100% of the time.

It's entirely true. You know the riders you're with, hence the qualifier in my post. If I know the people I am with can keep it in check, it's all good. Perhaps I should have added something about it applying to random-rider type stuff (like the "hey let's go ride XYZ canyon" rides).

I have been on a lot of whoever-wants-to-go group rides, and have rarely seen one where stupidity didn't take on a life of its own.

Let's go ride. I know you're not a douchebag. :D

[JustSomeDude]

+1 to most of the posts here.

I think a lot of people feel pressured to keep up, especially when a "fast guy" is hugging their rear wheel. Seeing some one on your ass in your mirrors can be a stress inducer for those who aren't confident in maintaining a slower speed.

Ef the "fast guys" who want to ride your ass. Keep your pace, keep your head up, and focus on your line. Let the "fast guy" go around you if he wants, and don't worry about losing sight of the guy in front of you. Get to your destination safe, and with your bike intact!

[MetaLord 9]

Probby the "not riding the pace" option covers the most ground here & I'd say is responsible for a high percentage of down stats, but sometimes, shit just happens. Doesn't matter what pace you're riding, sometimes there's just stuff beyond your control. You come around a blind corner and there's a random rockslide just after apex. An animal shoots across the road with epicly bad timing. Angry driver goes on the offense. You come around a high speed rated corner to find bikers riding 8 abreast.

The perceived need to keep up with the group can defiantely lead to some bad decision making, but, again, it's up to us as riders to choose the groups with whom we ride and make our own responsible decisions on the road. Sure, half of the group may have just passed two cars and motored on ahead, but you've gotta think: "They'll wait for me right? If they don't, are they worth riding with anyway? (and most importantly) If I pass these cars, do I have enough room to pass, enough room to get past them, and enough skills to pass them, pick my entry speed and lean angle, and safely make it through the next corner?"

[Devaclis]

Who the hell are you guys riding with? I have not had an ego problem, a "keep up with the fast guy" problem, or an "outta my way newb" problem on ANY of my last 5 street rides.

And Ralph, it cannot not be ENTIRELY true if it is not true all of the time. Qualifier or not.

Ouch, the sun is hot unless I don't touch it. Really?

[longrider]

You need another poll option: "The amount of ego present in a group ride increases exponentially according to the number of riders present."

For that reason I've all but stopped going on group rides unless I know everyone showing up. I have nothing to prove, and get tired of watching other people try to run into each other.

I agree with Ralph, I have never been a big group rider. I usually ride by myself or one or two good friends. When I have gone with a good sized group I usally come back with a good story :(

[McVaaahhh]

In my experience, it's always somebody who is "trying to keep up" with the faster riders and is in a bit over their heads.

One time I had a guy crash right in front of me because he was in way over his head. The first time we stopped I was going to talk to him about it because he almost binned it during the first half of our ride. He crashed about 10 min later when he came into a corner too hot and stood it up and off the road. Here's the thread about that: http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14618&highlight=crashed

[salsashark]

too busy trying to keep the Glock from falling out of the waist band? :dunno:

[= Buckeye Jess =]

The start of my motorcycling life was surrounded by bad luck, but it also taught me how quickly/easily things go bad and that it doesn't take much at all to ruin an entire season.

Once I was finally able to get back up in the saddle, I did so with the entirely wrong attitude. I felt like I survived getting hit by a drunk and I wasn't about to let that scare me away from biking. I'd gone down and couldn't do it again, right? El-wrongo. While I was willing to admit I was still new and would listen to advice, I wasn't willing to actively seek it.

I found myself riding with anybody and everybody and my riding patterns varied greatly depending upon who I was with. I sure as hell rode well above my abilities and most of the time I was just damn lucky I didn't kill myself. Then came the day that I DID go down again and beat the snot out of myself in the process. I was again, riding more aggressively than I needed to...but I also let outside factors/circumstances distract me. That get off was entirely my own stupid fault and I thankfully learned from it.

While I'd LOVE to be able to take the experience back - I'll never give up the lesson I learned from it. From the first day I rode again after the wreck, I rode my own pace and I have ever since. I've been on plenty of group rides since then and I usually end up waaaay behind everybody. But I also pick and chose who I ride with now and know that they are going to wait for me. As such, my skill has increased exponentially just over this summer (particularly these past couple months) and I can't wait to keep building upon it!

It is unbelievable how much more enjoyable the ride is when you aren't hanging on to the edge of the seat and know that you can take your time without someone else's panties getting in a bunch because you're holding 'em up. Unfortunately I don't know how you can REALLY sink the "Ride Your Own Ride" mantra into a n00b's head. I had to learn it on my own, but I'll never forget it now.

K... I'm done rambling! :)

[mtnairlover]

People want to get angry with those that ride over their head. And I don't blame anyone for showing concern. But, I'm gonna toss this out since I've been on the downside way too many times for my tastes.

I don't like crashing. Who does? I also hate the fact that there was no good reason for my crashes. Riding beyond my skill? Maybe the first time. But, the other times...really? I don't buy it. What's harder is to be able to talk to others and try and explain what happened. As a crasher, I get so sick and tired of hearing, "you were going too fast", or "you were trying to keep up"...all I want to say is "Really? Were you there? Did you see? Were you in my head?" At a certain point, crashers just don't want to hear it anymore, because everyone's got their opinions and yet, we're stuck here with bruised egos and sometimes, no good answer as to how to keep from doing it again.

I want to put my friend on a pedestal for what he did for me when he diagnosed my problem. He did not judge. He just picked apart every aspect and got down to the nitty-gritty with my crashes.

That's what I want to see. Not judgment as to people who crash, but good, level-headed diagnoses. A way to talk about what happened and a way to work on improving.

[Nick_Ninja]

All of the group rides that I have participated in the past four or five years, if a crash occurred, it has always happened behind me. :D

[GixxerCarrie]

People want to get angry with those that ride over their head. And I don't blame anyone for showing concern. But, I'm gonna toss this out since I've been on the downside way too many times for my tastes.

I don't like crashing. Who does? I also hate the fact that there was no good reason for my crashes. Riding beyond my skill? Maybe the first time. But, the other times...really? I don't buy it. What's harder is to be able to talk to others and try and explain what happened. As a crasher, I get so sick and tired of hearing, "you were going too fast", or "you were trying to keep up"...all I want to say is "Really? Were you there? Did you see? Were you in my head?" At a certain point, crashers just don't want to hear it anymore, because everyone's got their opinions and yet, we're stuck here with bruised egos and sometimes, no good answer as to how to keep from doing it again.

I want to put my friend on a pedestal for what he did for me when he diagnosed my problem. He did not judge. He just picked apart every aspect and got down to the nitty-gritty with my crashes.

That's what I want to see. Not judgment as to people who crash, but good, level-headed diagnoses. A way to talk about what happened and a way to work on improving.
+1 .....If I'm not learning....I'm not improving. Stupid Mtn Dew bottle...but I will be even more on the look out for road debris and blind corners..they not so nice!:cry:

and Matty....no offense taken. SCREW THE DEW!

[Matty]

and Matty....no offense taken. SCREW THE DEW!
Hey Randall said it too!!!

Glad you didn't take any offense to it. Like a few other people have said, shit happens.

[GixxerCarrie]

Hey Randall said it too!!!

Glad you didn't take any offense to it. Like a few other people have said, shit happens.

I know...its my pride though....:cry: But I got a better bike..lol. And sexay knees to show for it...and one hellofa scare.:alien:

[Devaclis]

I got you a new nickname, Carrie. That is the important part :)

[MetaLord 9]

People want to get angry with those that ride over their head. And I don't blame anyone for showing concern. But, I'm gonna toss this out since I've been on the downside way too many times for my tastes.

I don't like crashing. Who does? I also hate the fact that there was no good reason for my crashes. Riding beyond my skill? Maybe the first time. But, the other times...really? I don't buy it. What's harder is to be able to talk to others and try and explain what happened. As a crasher, I get so sick and tired of hearing, "you were going too fast", or "you were trying to keep up"...all I want to say is "Really? Were you there? Did you see? Were you in my head?" At a certain point, crashers just don't want to hear it anymore, because everyone's got their opinions and yet, we're stuck here with bruised egos and sometimes, no good answer as to how to keep from doing it again.

I want to put my friend on a pedestal for what he did for me when he diagnosed my problem. He did not judge. He just picked apart every aspect and got down to the nitty-gritty with my crashes.

That's what I want to see. Not judgment as to people who crash, but good, level-headed diagnoses. A way to talk about what happened and a way to work on improving.
Very valid points! But sometimes, "you were going too fast" or "you were riding above your abilities/trying to keep up" isn't a value judgement assessed, it's what actually happened. If you go through a corner too fast and slide out or panic, stand it up, and ride off into the ditch, then the issue is most likely that you were going to fast for the road conditions, lean angle, and line that you chose.

I can completely sympathize with you on folks getting angry that you crashed, but the important things are A. that you're alright, B. that you learned something, and C. that your bike is still rideable. The worst thing you can do is crash, blame it on something other than your own riding, and refuse to listen to constructive criticism b/c you know you were "right." Even if it was a road hazard or car or bicycle related issue, you've got to assume those things are constants and that you'll see 'em again. That's the reason that people crash over and over again for the same reason. What you CAN change is the way that you react to them! It's important to learn, but it's even more important to realize that learning means that accepting that you might be wrong and someone else might be correct. That sucks REALLY bad and a lot of people have trouble with that, myself included, but you've gotta ask yourself "Do I wanna be right, or do I wanna be a better rider?"

[GixxerCarrie]

I got you a new nickname, Carrie. That is the important part :)

TRUE THAT...lol! :lol:

and I'll be jumping off this subject now cause I tend to get butthurt really easy on it as Matty already knows.

[jbnwc]

7 of 7 of the group ride crashes I have seen were due primarily to inexperience. 4 of them were my wife.:(

[CaneZach]

What about Mountain Dew bottles being on the road!?!?!?!?!

Just Kidding Carrie!!!



http://goozex.com/community/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/30/4721.Misc_2D00_OhSnap.jpg


In all seriousness, in all of the crashes I've seen, it hasn't been someone outriding their abilities, meaning they weren't pushing their bikes in order to keep up. They did however do something incorrect, like lock up the rear brake or fixate and dynamite the front brakes.

[jbnwc]

too busy trying to keep the Glock from falling out of the waist band? :dunno:


Hey dude - you try riding with Sketchers, ECKO's, and a Glock! It takes skilz!

[mtnairlover]

but you've gotta ask yourself "Do I wanna be right,

Yes (I'm being pompous and silly)


or do I wanna be a better rider?"
...and Yes. My point was the judgment thing. It's one thing to tell someone what you think and another thing entirely to listen to that person and pick out the details to come up with a diagnosis that is closer to reality than just saying "You were riding too fast".

I wanted a really good reason to slow down, because I'm not always freaking out when I ride. I wanted to dig way down to figure it out. And only one person was willing to sit down with me and do that digging. I say "willing" because it's hard for even me to talk with people I care about over such a touchy subject. I mean, we're calling people out...we're asking them to shut down the ego and really think about what they are doing when they twist that throttle just a tad too much. For me...there's gotta be more...there's gotta be a damn good reason for it...and because I'm so freakin bull-headed, I needed that extra long talk without the judgment.

[Matty]

The worst thing you can do is crash, blame it on something other than your own riding, and refuse to listen to constructive criticism b/c you know you were "right." Even if it was a road hazard or car or bicycle related issue, you've got to assume those things are constants and that you'll see 'em again. That's the reason that people crash over and over again for the same reason. What you CAN change is the way that you react to them! It's important to learn, but it's even more important to realize that learning means that accepting that you might be wrong and someone else might be correct. That sucks REALLY bad and a lot of people have trouble with that, myself included, but you've gotta ask yourself "Do I wanna be right, or do I wanna be a better rider?"

+1. Nice Chris. Hope some people read this. It's kind of the samething myself, Canezach, Mental, and a couple of others were saying at Dallas's BBQ.

[Mental]

Yes (I'm being pompous and silly)


...and Yes. My point was the judgment thing. It's one thing to tell someone what you think and another thing entirely to listen to that person and pick out the details to come up with a diagnosis that is closer to reality than just saying "You were riding too fast".

I wanted a really good reason to slow down, because I'm not always freaking out when I ride. I wanted to dig way down to figure it out. And only one person was willing to sit down with me and do that digging. I say "willing" because it's hard for even me to talk with people I care about over such a touchy subject. I mean, we're calling people out...we're asking them to shut down the ego and really think about what they are doing when they twist that throttle just a tad too much. For me...there's gotta be more...there's gotta be a damn good reason for it...and because I'm so freakin bull-headed, I needed that extra long talk without the judgment.

Hey, don't get all touchy cuz you suck....

(I keed I keed)

[Sortarican]

I blame God. She has it in for me.
(Hey, a lame excuse is better than no excuse at all.)

BTW, thanks for the help with the tire last week Jim.
Nothing I got from you was responsible for my crashing this weekend.

[mtnairlover]

Hey, don't get all touchy cuz you suck....

(I keed I keed)

I do SUCK...royally. Oh and I'm a pain in the arse. Oh and I crash just cuz I want the attention...oh and I whine cuz I sound cool when I whine:cry:

Muah...luv ya!

I guess in a sense I was trying to show that it's just as hard on us who crash and really want to figure out the reasons just as much as everyone else, but can't. It was like hitting my head against the wall, cuz there really was only one reason (so far) why I have crashed in the past. It was really bugging me.

I now have a really keen understanding of my limits in all situations and on all roads...so far.

So, thumbs up to my pal for putting up with my bull-headed'ness.:D

[PrillerGrrl]

When I've been behind peeps that have crashed, it's usually in corners. They seem to be looking in front of them and not into the turn so when the road sudddenly turns even sharper, the reaction seems to be to get on the brakes and then their bike goes upright and they shoot into the bushes.

PG

[Pandora-11]

The fact that I have been actively reading all of the info posted on this forum for several months and people have "let me" without trying to actively run me off (mostly and only recently) has meant much as I've completed this msf course. It has been amazing in that the things they have been showing me will have HUGE benefits toward helping me to save my life: avoiding obstacles, riding over obstacles, body positioning, speed control, cornering correctly, lean, etc. Having been a reader of this forum, I was able to ask pertinent questions about things I've heard expressed here during crashes and otherwise. They spend a lot of time discussing riding at a comfortable speed, handlebar position in stopping and curves as well as braking and lock-up, and searching for potential hazards This endorsement has been a long time in coming....but finally.

[GixxerCarrie]

Yes (I'm being pompous and silly)


...and Yes. My point was the judgment thing. It's one thing to tell someone what you think and another thing entirely to listen to that person and pick out the details to come up with a diagnosis that is closer to reality than just saying "You were riding too fast".

I wanted a really good reason to slow down, because I'm not always freaking out when I ride. I wanted to dig way down to figure it out. And only one person was willing to sit down with me and do that digging. I say "willing" because it's hard for even me to talk with people I care about over such a touchy subject. I mean, we're calling people out...we're asking them to shut down the ego and really think about what they are doing when they twist that throttle just a tad too much. For me...there's gotta be more...there's gotta be a damn good reason for it...and because I'm so freakin bull-headed, I needed that extra long talk without the judgment.

Cathy...Sully and I had this same conversation. Sometimes I feel because we are woman riders that the men are twice as hard on us. Her and I had a great discussion on not only the things I do really good, but, the things I need to concentrate and improve on. Also, experience to take away from all of this.

If you come at me at the jugular, acting like a know it all, I'm going to eat you alive, and, your going to piss me off. I will take nothing away from what you tell me. I am also hard headed. I take responsibility for my actions, and, what I need to improve on going forward. There is a way to go about mentoring people...some could use some lessons on that.

Sully gave me a small bullet list...of what she tought, but, also what I'm good at. It was the first time I was like OMG :banghead:someone finally gets it.
She earned my respect...Thanks Lev.:)

[TFOGGuys]

hard on

Uhhuhuhuhuh...she said hard on....uhuhuhuhuhuhuh

http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy/original/beavis.jpg

[GixxerCarrie]

I can always count on Jim or Dana to give me a Hard Time! lol!

[TFOGGuys]

The fact that I have been actively reading all of the info posted on this forum for several months and people have "let me" without trying to actively run me off (mostly and only recently) has meant much as I've completed this msf course. It has been amazing in that the things they have been showing me will have HUGE benefits toward helping me to save my life: avoiding obstacles, riding over obstacles, body positioning, speed control, cornering correctly, lean, etc. Having been a reader of this forum, I was able to ask pertinent questions about things I've heard expressed here during crashes and otherwise. They spend a lot of time discussing riding at a comfortable speed, handlebar position in stopping and curves as well as braking and lock-up, and searching for potential hazards This endorsement has been a long time in coming....but finally.

Congratulations! and welcome to the ranks of the riders! :cheers:

[Devaclis]

P-Dora has her MSF completed? Woohooo!! there is a kick ass trail right by your house. Let's go ride!

[mtnairlover]

Cathy...Sully and I had this same conversation.

I love that girl! :)

[MikeG]

Brain aneurysm?
Hey, that happened to be a low side, without the bike :banghead:

[daemon]

When I've been behind peeps that have crashed, it's usually in corners. They seem to be looking in front of them and not into the turn so when the road sudddenly turns even sharper, the reaction seems to be to get on the brakes and then their bike goes upright and they shoot into the bushes.

PG
couple this with exhaustion and innattentiveness and you will have my excuse for bumping a guardrail a couple months ago.
400+ mile day of hard riding and i was done and just cruising instead of pushing it like i had been all day.
i knew i was at my limit for the day and chilled back to cruising mode.

i screwed up and i know it but it had nothing to do with me pushing myself.


WATCH OUT FOR EXHAUSTION.

[vampie]

My first crash taught me to respect cold tires and off camber turns. My second crash taught me to recognize mental fatigue. My third taught me to ride my own pace and to avoid the "red mist." (I know, I'm from the school of hard knocks.) There were all kind of secondary lessons I leaned through my journey as well, like the joys of amnesia and narcotic pain killers.

All in all, I wish I didn't go through everything I did (especially the 20k in medical bills), but it all worked out in the end and I'm a much better person for it.

[Bueller]

Crash=Fail :(
No excuse

[GixxerCarrie]

Crash=Fail :(
No excuse


No Shit! MAJOR FAIL!:banghead:

[sugarrey]

Well then a large majority of us have FAILED and are FAILURES.

Guess I could live with that.

[brennahm]

The one thing I haven't heard mentioned explicitly here is a safety margin.

It's been alluded to with the "riding over your head" theme, since, after all, if you're over your head, you've erased more than your safety margin. These people - in my opinion - can only be helped by themselves. You can see them at the open ride meet-ups. They have that look in their eyes that's a mix of excitement, fear, apprehension, ego, etc. The one thing they don't seem to have is a focus that's needed for canyon rides.

Then there seems to be a lot of talk of "shit happens." That's a piss poor excuse in my opinion. I'm never the fastest on a ride, but I know that I can almost always avoid any gravel, sand, car, harley, etc. I know that I can either go around or inside most obstacles because I've set myself up with a speed and position to adjust for obstacles. If I ever feel that I'm losing that ability then my speed drops...immediately.

I agree with Bueller...crash=fail.

Unless of course that's your goal or you're such a man that you don't mind "pushing your limits."

[Tipys]

http://goozex.com/community/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/30/4721.Misc_2D00_OhSnap.jpg


In all seriousness, in all of the crashes I've seen, it hasn't been someone outriding their abilities, meaning they weren't pushing their bikes in order to keep up. They did however do something incorrect, like lock up the rear brake or fixate and dynamite the front brakes.



I agree for the most part. The only thing i see is the think they are going in way to hot for the corner when they really arent thinking they cant handle it then panic brake, fixate, lock it up, freak out, and crash.


My excuse for my last drop (Not crash). I was more worried about Ly (GCHI) then then I was about putting my kickstand down.

[Aracheon]

My street crash last year was due to an equal combination of factors, all of which lead to one word:

DECISION.

My choice to ride faster than I should have been going, on tires that I knew were bad, on a road I didn't know very well, was a decision that I made. For no other reason than I had a post-winter adrenaline craving, and satisfying that crave was making a gamble that I didn't think I would lose.

[FZRguy]

All street crashes are bad. Most dirt crashes are learning experiences with minimal consequences. An old XR100 or 125 two-stroke is cheaper than the cost of fixing a new sportbike after one crash. It’s a barrel of fun and will improve your riding skills ten-fold.

[BigE]

All street crashes are bad. Most dirt crashes are learning experiences with minimal consequences. An old XR100 or 125 two-stroke is cheaper than the cost of fixing a new sportbike after one crash. It’s a barrel of fun and will improve your riding skills ten-fold.

+10,000

Learning on a small dirtbike should be required for licensing IMO.

I haven't been on too many group rides with CSC folks and thankfully the ones I did go on had no wrecks.

Also +10 for Mayo's comments on exhaustion. A couple of years ago I rode to Pueblo at Oh Dark thirty in the morning, did corner working for a rider school all day, headed home at about 5ish, got into a huge storm in the Springs, waited that out and ended up getting back up to Loveland at 10ish at night. And of course there was construction on I25! Traffic was creeping where I had slip the clutch and go 1/2mph. I about fell over from exhaustion more times than I care to remember.

[Flamesuit on ;)] I think most street wrecks are the fault of the rider. You need to take responsibility for yourself, know your skill level and give yourself "outs" or escape routes.
Someone mentioned when you're at 10/10ths there's nothing left in case of emergency.
I used to always say that "oh yeah, I'm riding at 7-8/10ths pace" then a couple of things happened. First I did some tracks days and realized that for the street I was at 9-10/10ths. The other thing is getting older and not wanting tickets and most importantly, having family waiting for me to come home. So I guess I'm old, slow and don't give a crap if I impress anyone else with my riding.

[CaneZach]

+10,000



[Flamesuit on ;)] I think most street wrecks are the fault of the rider.

No flame. I agree! For single-unit crashes, I'd say upwards of 95%