Need some Help, any Lawyers here?

[Fly boy]

First of, here is the background:

I purchased a Car in April 2008 for a Dealership in Ft. Collins. They said the car was a quality vehicle and everything checked out ok with it. I had some minor maintenance done, and 2 different mechanics said that it was in a wreck. I called the dealership to ask about it, and they re-assured me with an "auto-check." It showed the car had a couple events, but was still "ok."

I am now trying to sell the car and decided to pull a carfax to show it was ok. When I recieved the carfax I found out that it was a total loss vehicle from previous owners of the dealership. I have emailed the dealership and he says that he was un-aware of and bad history on the car.

I have emailed Tom Martino, and a couple other news stations but I have not recieved anything back from them. My question is, am I SOL, or is there something I can do? I would not have purchased the car knowing the history, and now the value of the car is not what I purchased it at.

Is there anyone that has lawyer experience, or know someone I can talk to?

Thanks

[Zach929rr]

Did you receive a written warranty?

[Fly boy]

I don't believe so, but I don't have the paperwork with me at work.


Aren't dealerships required to provide info if I asked about the prior wreck?

[zetaetatheta]

If it was sold to you fraudulently and you can prove it you probably have some legal recourse, but if you bought it without due diligence--who knows.

[Zach929rr]

I was looking for the Lemon Law route, but it only applies to vehicles that were sent out with written warranties of some form, be it left over balance from a Manu. warranty, and extended warranty from the ship, etc.

By total loss do you mean salvage?

You can't do lemon law, so your only recourse would be through some sort of Consumer Protection stuff, located at the Colorado Department of Consumer Affairs (http://www.ago.state.co.us/). Here's a link to the Colorado Consumer Protection Act (http://www.ago.state.co.us/consprot/consumerlaws/CCPA.pdf).

Also, I'm not a lawyer, just know the ins and outs reasonably well.

[McVaaahhh]

If the vehicle was a total loss at some point it will have a salvage or a rebuilt from salvage title, you'll need to find out which one. (You'll probably have to call the leinholder if you financed it)

If it has a salvage title, the seller is required to sign and have you sign a salvage title disclosure form.

[Zach929rr]

If it has a salvage title, the seller is required to sign and have you sign a salvage title disclosure form.

This part falls under CCPA. If it was salvage and you weren't informed of it, that's a very good case.


(b) Fails to disclose in writing, prior to sale, to the purchaser that a motor vehicle is a salvage vehicle, as defined in section 42-6-102 (17), C.R.S., that a vehicle was repurchased by or returned to the manufacturer from a previous owner for inability to conform the motor vehicle to the manufacturer's warranty in accordance with article 10 of title 42, C.R.S., or with any other state or federal motor vehicle warranty law, or knowingly fails to disclose, in writing, prior to sale, to the purchaser that a motor vehicle has sustained material damage at any one time from any one incident.Coined "Deceptive Trade Practices" part 6-1-708 of the CCPA.

[McVaaahhh]

This part falls under CCPA. If it was salvage and you weren't informed of it, that's a very good case.

Coined "Deceptive Trade Practices" part 6-1-708 of the CCPA.

Yeah, I bought a bike that had an Salvage title once and didn't know we needed the form. When I went to the DMV to get the title in my name, I had to go back to the guy with the form so we both could sign it.

Question is, does that pertain to a Rebuilt From Salvage title?

[hcr25]

Also most banks wont finance a slavage title vehicle. So if your title is clean (non salvage) but was a total loss previously there might be something shady with the paper work.

[Zach929rr]

Question is, does that pertain to a Rebuilt From Salvage title?

That's a tough question. I think the real one is whether or not you were informed of its status prior to purchase. If you weren't, then you might be able to claim some deceptive trade. On the other hand, that vehicle did have to pass a state-level inspection to be titled again, so :dunno:

In his case, he bought the car prior to being informed of any of this. Clearly, the CCPA puts the burden of information transmittal on the Seller i.e. its their responsibility to clearly disclose any information on the vehicle. The case would come down to being able to prove the dealership had prior knowledge of the status of the car and didn't pass it on to the buyer. Obviously, that's very tough thing to do.

[Fly boy]

I was looking for the Lemon Law route, but it only applies to vehicles that were sent out with written warranties of some form, be it left over balance from a Manu. warranty, and extended warranty from the ship, etc.

By total loss do you mean salvage?

You can't do lemon law, so your only recourse would be through some sort of Consumer Protection stuff, located at the Colorado Department of Consumer Affairs (http://www.ago.state.co.us/). Here's a link to the Colorado Consumer Protection Act (http://www.ago.state.co.us/consprot/consumerlaws/CCPA.pdf).

Also, I'm not a lawyer, just know the ins and outs reasonably well.


I think total loss and salvage is the same thing.



If the vehicle was a total loss at some point it will have a salvage or a rebuilt from salvage title, you'll need to find out which one. (You'll probably have to call the leinholder if you financed it)

If it has a salvage title, the seller is required to sign and have you sign a salvage title disclosure form.

I have the Title, and when I licenced in WY, they didn't ask for anything. However, the dealership had to do some extra work because there was a lien on it.




Total Loss Check
Total loss reported on 04/13/2006. 1-2 owners




Total Loss





No New Issues Reported 3 owner (DEALER)





No New Issues Reported 4 owner (ME)





Structural / Frame Damage Check
No structural / frame damage reported to CARFAX.





No Issues Reported





No Issues Reported





No Issues Reported





Airbag Deployment Check
No airbag deployment reported to CARFAX.



No Issues Reported


No Issues Reported



No Issues Reported



Odometer Rollback Check
No indication of an odometer rollback.



No Issues Indicated



No Issues Indicated


No Issues Indicated





Accident / Damage Check
Damage reported on 01/26/2006.




Damage Reported





No New Issues Reported





No New Issues Reported

[TurboGizzmo]

Does the title list it as salvage? "S"

[Kristian]

You have recourse if they did not disclose salvage at the time of sale. Call the Dept of Revenue, auto division, 303-757-9978

[TurboGizzmo]

I know there are ways to "wash" the title so you can convert a "S" title to clear then you dont have to disclose it and its "legal" just shady......

[Fly boy]

Does the title list it as salvage? "S"

The title looked normal to me, but then again, I don't know what I am looking for. Where would the "S" be located?



You have recourse if they did not disclose salvage at the time of sale. Call the Dept of Revenue, auto division, 303-757-9978


They did not disclose salvage title nor a wreck. The dealership had trouble with the title/lien so I am sure he knew something wasn't right with it, but again, still denies it.



This is the responce I got from the dealer once I saw the carfax and emailed/called them:

Hello Ben,

I received your voice mail. I am sorry to hear you have not had a great experience with the honda. The vehicle you purchased from us was not from an auction, but was a trade-in. We had not done anything with the title in reference to your comment about "cleaning" it. Can you please send me a copy of the carfax report? My fax is (XXXXXXX). If in fact someone has altered the title prior to us receiving it, then we are not aware of it. And if this is the case, then I will be more than willing to work with you in persuing anyone in respect to possible fraud.

Lets touch base after you have sent the fax. Let me know if you need any other information in between.

Best regards,

[TurboGizzmo]

Titles formate has changed and without one in front of me i dunno....thought it was in the upper right area but this is based on memory.
Does the title have a "S" anywhere on it? Or "rebuilt from salvage"? Is rebuilt from salvage stamped on the inside of the driver door?

http://www.dmv.org/co-colorado/salvaged-vehicles.php

[McVaaahhh]

For Colorado Titles there's an 'S' in the upper left hand corner.

I don't remember where the rebuilt goes, but I believe it's on the title somewhere.


If you have the title, look at it really closely, as I'm not sure of anything for Wyoming titles. If it is not a Salvage title than I can't see how the dealership did anything illegal, you'd have to prove they "washed" it and defrauded you.

[Fly boy]

I will have to check the car and paperwork when I get home.


Thank you all for the Info so far. I will post up when I am better prepared

/rant

[Kristian]

The "S" usually is part of the title number. If the title is branded, then you go back on the dealer, the dealer goes back on the previous owner. Once the dealer sees the problem, the should jump all over it!

[Fly boy]

I don't see anything on the title that shows it is a salvage, or rebuilt from salvage

[Fly boy]

Checked the doors all around and nothing says rebuilt, or salvage.


Same with the Title, nothing about it on there.

Any idea's?

[TurboGizzmo]

If carfax says it and repair people confirm it then I assume the title was just reissued through another state making it clean....its not a requirement to stamp it on the vehicle it was just a guess if the place did or not. Depending on how it was all done it could be completely legit from a title and selling standpoint.....

[Fly boy]

so I could sell it as a clean title vehicle?

Will I need to disclose it was a rebuilt?

[rforsythe]

Well, if they ask you have to be truthful about it, so in that respect you would have to disclose it. Otherwise it's fraud and someone will be posting a thread like this about you.

[Graphite675]

Is that the carfax report below? I'm no expert but looking at that I would almost guess the car was stolen and written off by the insurance company. Then recovered later and sold to the dealer at an auction or something? That report shows no physical damage other then what was reported on 1/06. The airbags have never deployed and there is no frame/structural damage so it could not have been a bad accident I would think. Nothing worth totalling the car over.
I think carfax gets there info from insurance companies so if they wrote it off as stolen it might so up as a total loss in carfax? Just a thought.






Total Loss Check
Total loss reported on 04/13/2006. 1-2 owners




Total Loss





No New Issues Reported 3 owner (DEALER)





No New Issues Reported 4 owner (ME)





Structural / Frame Damage Check
No structural / frame damage reported to CARFAX.





No Issues Reported





No Issues Reported





No Issues Reported





Airbag Deployment Check
No airbag deployment reported to CARFAX.



No Issues Reported


No Issues Reported



No Issues Reported



Odometer Rollback Check
No indication of an odometer rollback.



No Issues Indicated



No Issues Indicated


No Issues Indicated





Accident / Damage Check
Damage reported on 01/26/2006.




Damage Reported





No New Issues Reported





No New Issues Reported

[Fly boy]

I don't know. It was definatly in a wreck and fix up though.

From what I am concluding is that I am SOL on this car. Need to just try and private sell it, and if they ask disclose info.

[TurboGizzmo]

So you just worried that the car wont yield a good sale? There is nothing to disclose because according to everything (Title/DMV) the car isnt salvage. Have you asked to see the report the dealer ran and compare it....?

Can you contact carfax for more details on the total loss they are reporting?