Obama Fails on #1 Campaign Promise

[JustSomeDude]

There goes "universal health care"...

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25942829-2703,00.html

I'm sure the socialists are crying in their petrulli.

Meanwhile... Canadian doctors bemoan the "unsustainable" status of "free health care" in Canada.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jbjzPEY0Y3bvRD335rGu_Z3KXoQw

Boy, do I have a sweet tooth for this shit. :D

[whitebrad]

wow... fuckin brownshirts finally won...

fuckin cocksuckers... i get so tired of the social darwinists... i can't wait for anarchy so we can practice some real darwinism... thinkin that's what all these wealthy (and rich-boi jockriders) are missing... they want to just fuck everyone over and then run and hide behind the law... no law, no protection for the old rich white man...

eat the rich

cocksuckers

[buzzardman36]

This fucking country is so divided on everything that nothing can ever get accomplished. Fucking Republicans, Fucking Democrats. All just a bunch of sniveling argumentative cock sucking bastards. The Gov. has its citizens right where they want us. arguing over this shit and that shit while the politicians get rich and nothing fucking happens or changes for the better. DIVIDED WE WILL FALL/FAIL. Good fucking thing I have me some good "red dawn" type guns. Stupid fucking political bullshit!

[vort3xr6]

^^someone is butt hurt.

It is not just "the wealthy and rich-boi cocksucking jockriders" either. Check the polls. Its the majority of America that didn't want it. I say congratulations that people of America finally realized they can make a difference and their voices can be heard.

[dchd1130]

wow... fuckin brownshirts finally won...

fuckin cocksuckers... i get so tired of the social darwinists... i can't wait for anarchy so we can practice some real darwinism... thinkin that's what all these wealthy (and rich-boi jockriders) are missing... they want to just fuck everyone over and then run and hide behind the law... no law, no protection for the old rich white man...

eat the rich

cocksuckers

LOL good post :drink:
You cant win on merit, so you demonize and call names. The system needs work for sure, but what was presented was not the answer. The reason it didnt go through is because the majority of Americans did not agree with it. The dems could have pushed it through, but they were afraid they wouldnt get re-elected if they did.

[MetaLord 9]

Having money doesn't make you a bad person or the downfall of society. With a capitalist economic system based on Darwinism, I think a misunderstanding of how to make the system work properly is leading to a fair amount of chaos. There are certain inalienable rights, but an equal share of the wealth is not one of them and I think it's easy to feel jilted at either end of the spectrum.

Additionally, the "united we stand, divided we fall" mentality rings true in times of battle and hardship, but, when it comes to pressing issues deserving of much thought and deliberation, the benefit of a two party system is that two different opinion may be debated with the best winning or a compromise being forged. The downside is that two opinions often aren't enough to encapsulate the beliefs, needs, and wants of the republic. However, two opinions working out their differences will always trump one running unchecked.

[Nick_Ninja]

Having money doesn't make you a bad person or the downfall of society. With a capitalist economic system based on Darwinism, I think a misunderstanding of how to make the system work properly is leading to a fair amount of chaos. There are certain inalienable rights, but an equal share of the wealth is not one of them and I think it's easy to feel jilted at either end of the spectrum.

I want to buy a jilted winning powerball ticket.

[Snowman]

Is “bad person” the best you can do? I think these guys have you beat on name calling.

[MetaLord 9]

Randal, I feel that we've gotten to know each other well enough that my penchant for creative profanity should be well beyond your doubt.

[Snowman]

Yes, but be free man!
Unleash your inner crudeness and embrace the profanity being spewed by our tree swing, fesses throwing, Neanderthal friends!

[dirkterrell]

eat the rich


Be careful what you wish for. The top 25% of income earners pay nearly 87% of the federal income taxes. The top 1% pay over 40% of the bill. Eat them and things will go south real quick.

Source (http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/250.html)

Dirk

[whitebrad]

just because motherfuckers piss me off doesn't mean i am stupid...

First, The federal income tax is unconstitutional because it is not apportioned as the Constitution clearly states all taxes must be. Second, the 16th Amendment was never ratified according to the procedures as set forth in the Constitution. Third, the income tax (when you read the law) only applies to businesses and corporations. There is nothing in the law that requires an individual to pay a personal income tax.

The distinction is in legal wording. Income is a legal word that applies to business profits. Earnings is a legal word that applies to wages, etc. based on an individual's labor.

Even the IRS's own documents substantiate this fact. The IRS clearly states that the income tax, as it applies to an individual, is a voluntary tax. Furthermore, under IRS regulations, it states that the IRS has the authority to seize business property and assets. It has no power to seize personal property or assets.

But if other people want to keep paying taxes that they have no legal need to pay then they can keep paying. The IRS won't stop them.

The amount of revenue that the IRS generates each year, based on the taxation of personal income, fails to pay for anything in the Federal government budget aside from interest on the national debt. Any monkey can see that this has been the case since the income tax and the federal reserve came into existence with each budget year

[dirkterrell]

Yes, the amount of revenue that the IRS generates each year, based on the taxation of personal income, fails to pay for anything in the Federal government budget aside from interest on the national debt. Any monkey can see that this has been the case since the income tax and the federal reserve came into existence with each budget year

Well, please give this monkey a reference that shows that. The Bureau of Labor Statistics gives data for 2006 (http://www.bls.gov/emp/empmacro08.htm) showing a bit over a 1,053 billion dollars raised from personal income taxes and about 278 billion dollars paid on interest.

Dirk

[*GSXR~SNAIL*]

Call me Curious George too!

[chanke4252]

I'm glad this failed, it was a messed up plan. I think obama should cool it for the remainder of the year rather than trying to make massive sweeping changes all at once way more hastily than they need to be made. Either way, I don't think I can deal with another situation where there is such a huge amount of money being spent against the american peoples' wishes like the whole bailout fiasco at the end of bush's term, and the beginning of obamas to a slightly lesser extent.

I'm really curious how many of those decisions against the general will of the american people need to happen before we burn congress to the ground? It can't be that many, because I'm nearly there.

[whitebrad]

Well, please give this monkey a reference that shows that. The Bureau of Labor Statistics gives data for 2006 (http://www.bls.gov/emp/empmacro08.htm) showing a bit over a 1,053 billion dollars raised from personal income taxes and about 278 billion dollars paid on interest.

Dirk

let me make myself clear... i am not calling you a monkey... not sure where that came from... here is the book, a very well researched fact-based look at the income tax...

http://www.freedomtofascism.com/

i liked the facts, and the way it did not seem all paranoid and shit...

/havemyreasonstohatethegovernmentthebunchofcocksuck erswillnoteverdowhat'sright

[Rhino]

let me make myself clear... i am not calling you a monkey... not sure where that came from... here is the book, a very well researched fact-based look at the income tax...

http://www.freedomtofascism.com/

i liked the facts, and the way it did not seem all paranoid and shit...

/havemyreasonstohatethegovernmentthebunchofcocksuck erswillnoteverdowhat'sright


Many people have used "fact-based" attempts to avoid paying income taxes. Don't you think if it was "wrong" that the rich would be the first ones challenging it in court on a daily basis? Do you think Wesley Snipes would be in prison if paying taxes were "just a friendly suggestion, a donation if you will, to the fine folks at the IRS"?

People occasionally find loopholes, get their day in court, get it dismissed, then they close the loophole. Some guy figured out that the form 1040 didn't comply with the "paperwork reduction act", as it didn't have some silly number on it. He got off that year, but they have since changed it.

I would LOVE to be able to say they aren't entitled to the rewards of my labors, but the fucking thieves dont' see it that way. They want your money, think it's theirs, and will take it. C'mon, THEY make the laws, right?

I seem to remember a member's sigline here to the effect: "Told to me by an IRS auditor: The trick is to not think of it as YOUR money" :(

It's almost time to start donating semi-precious metals though....at a few thousand fps each.

[*GSXR~SNAIL*]

...Any monkey can see that this has been the case since the income tax and the federal reserve came into existence with each budget year


let me make myself clear... i am not calling you a monkey... not sure where that came from...


We were looking at a point you made earlier in one of your posts.

[dirkterrell]

http://www.freedomtofascism.com/

i liked the facts, and the way it did not seem all paranoid and shit...



Well, when I see the Supreme Court make that ruling, I'll believe it. A Hollywood production doesn't cut it for me. :) Here is some interesting reading (http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/IncomeTax.htm) for you.

So, I gather your claim about income taxes not covering anything more than national debt interest was just pulled out of the air?

Dirk

[whitebrad]

can you show me the national vote figures for the ratification of the 16th amendment?

i have only been looking for that for 2 years

[dirkterrell]

can you show me the national vote figures for the ratification of the 16th amendment?

i have only been looking for that for 2 years

I found it in about a minute of searching:

Amendment XVI. \8\

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on
incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment

[[Page 34]]
among the several States, and without regard to any census or
enumeration.
\8\ The Sixteenth Amendment was proposed by Congress on July 12,
1909, when it passed the House, 44 Cong. Rec. (61st Cong., 1st Sess.)
4390, 4440, 4441, having previously passed the Senate on July 5. Id.,
4121. It appears officially in 36 Stat. 184. Ratification was completed
on February 3, 1913, when the legislature of the thirty-sixth State
(Delaware, Wyoming, or New Mexico) approved the amendment, there being
then 48 States in the Union. On February 25, 1913, Secretary of State
Knox certified that this amendment had become a part of the
Constitution. 37 Stat. 1785.
The several state legislatures ratified the Sixteenth Amendment
on the following dates: Alabama, August 10, 1909; Kentucky, February 8,
1910; South Carolina, February 19, 1910; Illinois, March 1, 1910;
Mississippi, March 7, 1910; Oklahoma, March 10, 1910; Maryland, April 8,
1910; Georgia, August 3, 1910; Texas, August 16, 1910; Ohio, January 19,
1911; Idaho, January 20, 1911; Oregon, January 23, 1911; Washington,
January 26, 1911; Montana, January 27, 1911; Indiana, January 30, 1911;
California, January 31, 1911; Nevada, January 31, 1911; South Dakota,
February 1, 1911; Nebraska, February 9, 1911; North Carolina, February
11, 1911; Colorado, February 15, 1911; North Dakota, February 17, 1911;
Michigan, February 23, 1911; Iowa, February 24, 1911; Kansas, March 2,
1911; Missouri, March 16, 1911; Maine, March 31, 1911; Tennessee, April
7, 1911; Arkansas, April 22, 1911 (after having rejected the amendment
at the session begun January 9, 1911); Wisconsin, May 16, 1911; New
York, July 12, 1911; Arizona, April 3, 1912; Minnesota, June 11, 1912;
Louisiana, June 28, 1912; West Virginia, January 31, 1913; Delaware,
February 3, 1913; Wyoming, February 3, 1913; New Mexico, February 3,
1913; New Jersey, February 4, 1913; Vermont, February 19, 1913;
Massachusetts, March 4, 1913; New Hampshire, March 7, 1913 (after having
rejected the amendment on March 2, 1911). The amendment was rejected
(and not subsequently ratified) by Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Utah.

Source. (http://www.gpoaccess.gov/constitution/html/conamt.html)

Dirk

[TFOGGuys]

I think that the rejection of the "public option" portion of the healt care reform program should be a strong signal to the bureaucrats in DC to "get your fucking hands out of my pockets" and quit spending money we don't have on crap we don't need. They shoved over a thousand pages of pork through in the name of "emergency stimulus", but as more people find out what was in the stimulus package ($2 million grant to CHINA to study the drinking habits of prostitutes? :wtf:), the American public has come to realize that just because Washington "says so", 'tain't necessarily so. The stimulus package was suppose to halt the loss of jobs at ~7.5% unemployment, yet the rate hovers at close to 10% nationwide, and we have another trillion dollars in debt to service. CARS was supposed to revitalize the auto industry, and all it really did was artificially overheat the sales numbers for about a week, until it ran through a billion dollars of taxpayer money. No, I don't have the answers, but in my book, if the government wants us to "use credit responsibly" (ostensibly the cause of the latest economic troubles), then they should fucking lead by example. :scream1:

[whitebrad]

well that's just fuckin great...

just be rich, anyone, during the collapse... see what happens...

god i am so tired of this country. i have to take my son to grandparental visitation because the grandmother has more money and more access and i ran out of money and my lawyer withdrew and fucked me...

realize, that they are supposed to give special weight to the desires of the parents... then wrap your head around the fact that that bitch and her husband abused him during visitation...

and we still can't win, and can't protect our child (clear violation of due process and equal protection...) without going to jail, all because they have more money and can afford to keep filing motions and motions and motions and motions...

it's all good, just keep pushing...

PLEASE COLLAPSE SOON!
I NEED THE STRESS RELIEF

[Shea]

PLEASE COLLAPSE SOON!
I NEED THE STRESS RELIEF

Closer then you think...

http://www.bullionbullscanada.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1120:us-government-converts-inflation-into-gdp&catid=47:us-commentary&Itemid=111

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/nielson081109.html

http://rense.com/general87/econn.htm

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article12795.html

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article12610.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,25939108-2702,00.html?from=public_rss [Cap and Trade anyone?]

But your friends, the politicians, just keep playing the same game:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090817/ap_on_re_us/us_california_legislative_pay

Face it, we're being played and we're rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic. 2+ extra Trillion in debt in just 6 months. Almost half of what Bush added to the bottom line in 8 years. This will end sooner rather then later and America will be changed forever...and not necessarily in a good way.

[puckstr]

Why can't the world be more like this:
http://www.zombieland.com/
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLaApNzzDY)

[Wintermute]

There goes "universal health care"...

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25942829-2703,00.html

I'm sure the socialists are crying in their petrulli.

Meanwhile... Canadian doctors bemoan the "unsustainable" status of "free health care" in Canada.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jbjzPEY0Y3bvRD335rGu_Z3KXoQw

Boy, do I have a sweet tooth for this shit. :D

Here's a quote from the article about Canada that gives you such a hard-on:

Doig, who has had a full-time family practice in Saskatoon for 30 years, acknowledges that when physicians have talked about changing the health-care system in the past, they've been accused of wanting an American-style structure. She insists that's not the case.
"It's not about choosing between an American system or a Canadian system," said Doig. "The whole thing is about looking at what other people do."

Hmm, so she says that despite the problems with Canada's system, they don't want our shitty, corporate profit-rationed system. Is that supposed to be some kind of vindication for defeating universal healthcare for poor people?

As far as Obama "failing" on this, it's not over by a long shot.

[Sortarican]

I agree they should take more time to consider the healthcare issue.

As for the other 99% of this thread........yawn.

[= Buckeye Jess =]

Here's a quote from the article about Canada that gives you such a hard-on:


Hmm, so she says that despite the problems with Canada's system, they don't want our shitty, corporate profit-rationed system. Is that supposed to be some kind of vindication for defeating universal healthcare for poor people?


I've said it before, and I'll say it again. No, our current system isn't perfect and the entire healthcare system needs a MAJOR overhaul...but I just can't agree that universal healthcare is the appropriate route to take. The last time you and I got into this, you took it as a fight. I'm not fighting/arguing with you....more like a healthy debate. That's going to be the only way that we as a nation will ever be able to find a solution to the crisis.

I just cringe at the thought of the government dictating my healthcare. This boils down to my fundamental viewpoint on politics (that gov't needs to be kept to a minimum and stay the hell out of my life as long as I don't step on someone else's rights in the process of living it).

While I don't like a lot of what is happening at The White House, I'm glad to see that this particular issue is going back to the drawing boards above all others...

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I think if it was done RIGHT it could be the best thing. I, for one, are tired of seeing these Taj Mahals these medical buildings have become. Marble floors, columns, hundreds of thousands if notmillions of $$ to make a fancy building?!?! Piss on that. I remember the medical buildings when I was younger, and the bills were way more reasonable. Simple, effective, not these grandious monstrosities we see now. THAT'S a large part of your bill.

[JustSomeDude]

Hmm, so she says that despite the problems with Canada's system, they don't want our shitty, corporate profit-rationed system. Is that supposed to be some kind of vindication for defeating universal healthcare for poor people?

As far as Obama "failing" on this, it's not over by a long shot.

Don't be mad. There's still a chance for Kucinich in 2012.

[Tipys]

I think if it was done RIGHT it could be the best thing. I, for one, are tired of seeing these Taj Mahals these medical buildings have become. Marble floors, columns, hundreds of thousands if notmillions of $$ to make a fancy building?!?! Piss on that. I remember the medical buildings when I was younger, and the bills were way more reasonable. Simple, effective, not these grandious monstrosities we see now. THAT'S a large part of your bill.


That it does. This universal heath care is a wonderful idea. I am all for it.


Exsample you get lets say Cancer. Ok lose your job and your health care plan. Do you think you are going to be able to find a health care? No you won't because you are pre-exiting condition.



People really need to think about the ''what if''.

[Horsman]

Why can't the world be more like this:
http://www.zombieland.com/
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLaApNzzDY)

I think we all need some Zombieland... Welcome to Zoooombieee land.... My Momma said "someday I would be good at something...."
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/4Horsman/2012-woody.jpg

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

That it does. This universal heath care is a wonderful idea. I am all for it.


Exsample you get lets say Cancer. Ok lose your job and your health care plan. Do you think you are going to be able to find a health care? No you won't because you are pre-exiting condition.



People really need to think about the ''what if''.
LIFE is a pre-existing condition. The first law passed should be that ins. companies can NOT discriminate against the health of an employee, and use that as an out.

[TFOGGuys]

LIFE is a pre-existing condition. The first law passed should be that ins. companies can NOT discriminate against the health of an employee, and use that as an out.

So does that prohibition include the rates that they can charge? Or merely prohibit denial of coverage? Does it seem fair that I (a relatively healthy, slightly overweight, nonsmoker) should pay the same rates as a morbidly obese, heavy smoker that drinks a 12 pack of Colt 45 every night? Or that a competitive trialthlete should pay the same rates I do, for that matter? Not trying to start a fight, just want you to clarify what you consider "discrimination".

[puckstr]

I think we all need some Zombieland... Welcome to Zoooombieee land.... My Momma said "someday I would be good at something...."
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/4Horsman/2012-woody.jpg


You Gotta Pudry Mouth

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

So does that prohibition include the rates that they can charge? Or merely prohibit denial of coverage? Does it seem fair that I (a relatively healthy, slightly overweight, nonsmoker) should pay the same rates as a morbidly obese, heavy smoker that drinks a 12 pack of Colt 45 every night? Or that a competitive trialthlete should pay the same rates I do, for that matter? Not trying to start a fight, just want you to clarify what you consider "discrimination".
Glad you asked. I pay higher life ins rates because I have mildly elevated cholesterol and higher blood pressure, and I'm ok with that. I save money by NOT being a smoker and being in pretty good overall health. What I'm talking about is if a condition develops while I was at WG, say, a shoulder condition, then if I switch jobs, the next job will refuse to cover that (and everything else that's documented) because it's a "pre-existing" condition. They should be prohibited from doing that.