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View Full Version : Sticking your leg out before left turn



IT WASN'T ME!
Wed Aug 19th, 2009, 11:42 AM
I was watching some MOTO-GP coverage a few months ago and I noticed that Stoner would stick his left leg out right before banking into some left hand corners. I was watching some MOTO-GP and 250 GP coverage yesterday and saw some of the riders doing the same thing. Does anyone know why they are doing this?

~Barn~
Wed Aug 19th, 2009, 11:50 AM
The 2 MotoGP commentators will talk about this from time to time. They haven't really given any specific quotes (so far as I've heard), but basically they understand it to something of an "outrigger" mechanism, for hauling flaming balls into turns. Either something to initiate turn-in, shift balance, etc, etc...

They likened it to when riders first started to hang knees out, and it basically gets chalked up to the evolution of riding form. Or more accurately, "racing" form.

Canuck
Wed Aug 19th, 2009, 12:06 PM
Rossi started this trend. Now everyone is doing it. Barn is correct though, when it's supose to shift some wieght on the bike when you begin to countersteer. Think of it like a pendulum.

Bueller
Wed Aug 19th, 2009, 12:21 PM
I know why I do it on a tard, but it seems everyone is copying the monkey. I thought he was just stretching his leg out.

dragos13
Wed Aug 19th, 2009, 12:46 PM
Its been happening for a long time, its just more and more people are now doing it.

There is (obviously) alot of debate as to why. Personally, I believe its to adjust your foot after shifting. At one minute you are on the bridge of your foot so your toe can get under the shifter. Then, you need to adjust to get onto the ball of your foot for clearance. Thats why it seems to be only left handers, and not right turns.

CaneZach
Wed Aug 19th, 2009, 01:03 PM
Its been happening for a long time, its just more and more people are now doing it.
.

True dat! It's been done way before Rossi, Stoner, and anyone else. I think it's true meaning is lost in time, just like the meaning of San Diego.

whitebrad
Thu Aug 20th, 2009, 02:42 AM
True dat! It's been done way before Rossi, Stoner, and anyone else. I think it's true meaning is lost in time, just like the meaning of San Diego.

i thought San Diego meant "sandy cocaine"...

or was that sandy lleyo....

BHeth
Thu Aug 20th, 2009, 06:01 AM
The MotoGP commentators quoted Rossi as saying he started doing it because he feels he can brake harder if he hangs a leg down. That's the only explanation I have ever heard.

Either that or his huge titanium balls just need some air.

Hanging a leg out to initiate turn in doesn't hold water for me. The guys that do it seem to hang it out too early for that. The timing seems to coincide with getting on the brakes.

BHeth
Thu Aug 20th, 2009, 06:42 AM
I got curious about this and started searching. Here is a thread talking about it. I have no idea where this quoted article came from. The pic shows Rossi hanging it out in a righty, so I am guessing it isn't about foot position on the shifter. Val does it for braking. Casey has no idea why he does it. :slap:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=722913

~Barn~
Thu Aug 20th, 2009, 06:46 AM
Nice find.

JustSomeDude
Thu Aug 20th, 2009, 08:30 AM
Ef these theories...

We all know it's Bush's fault! :shocked:

JustSomeDude
Thu Aug 20th, 2009, 08:55 AM
Maybe just a psychological ploy?

http://www.motogpmatters.com/opinion/2009/07/22/the_truth_behind_the_rossi_leg_wave.html

It's an editorial, but a good theory. More from MCN...

http://www.justsomedude.com/rossilegout.jpg

Tipys
Thu Aug 20th, 2009, 09:35 AM
I got curious about this and started searching. Here is a thread talking about it. I have no idea where this quoted article came from. The pic shows Rossi hanging it out in a righty, so I am guessing it isn't about foot position on the shifter. Val does it for braking. Casey has no idea why he does it. :slap:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=722913


I was going to say I have seen Rossi do it on some right handers too. Tells me he doesn't use his rear brake either.

rybo
Thu Aug 20th, 2009, 10:08 AM
I was going to say I have seen Rossi do it on some right handers too. Tells me he doesn't use his rear brake either.

If he's backing it in he's probably using the rear brake.

Tipys
Thu Aug 20th, 2009, 10:15 AM
If he's backing it in he's probably using the rear brake.


Ok he doesnt use his rear brake all the time. I know he can't use it if his foot isnt even on the right peg.

Stank Juic3
Thu Aug 20th, 2009, 10:32 AM
Maybe this is one of the wonders of the world, Imma start doing it to look cool.

JustSomeDude
Thu Aug 20th, 2009, 11:29 AM
Ok he doesnt use his rear brake all the time. I know he can't use it if his foot isnt even on the right peg.

Hogwash. It's new Yamaha tech... the "toe pedal". They hide teh wireless rear brake controller in his b00tiez...

http://www.justsomedude.com/footsie.jpg

IT WASN'T ME!
Fri Aug 21st, 2009, 08:03 AM
From the other posts and the article (thanks BHeth) I think I can guess why. It probably helps keep the rear of the bike from coming around during hard braking. Sort of like a counter-weight.

nwatkins
Fri Aug 21st, 2009, 08:56 AM
I honestly think that Rossi started doing it just to see how many people would start doing that with him. Great joke Rossi it worked!!.

He is probably at home laughing his ass off.

CaneZach
Fri Aug 21st, 2009, 02:11 PM
I honestly think that Rossi started doing it just to see how many people would start doing that with him. Great joke Rossi it worked!!.

He is probably at home laughing his ass off.

Yeah, but Rossi isn't the first guy to do it on a track.

GregsGSXR
Fri Aug 21st, 2009, 02:18 PM
If Rossi's dong it maybe we all should too...........

Valguard
Fri Aug 21st, 2009, 09:04 PM
I like the counter weight/pendulum idea, but not so much for the bike but for Rossi.

IMO - When the back end wobbles and your just hanging on to the bike you have no point of reference to judge your wobbling except for your inner ear (or whatever gives you balance). However, if you let your leg hang off, you have a nice little pendoulum to help augment your feeling of the bike. Thus, a better idea of what the bike is doing, ergo, an ability to push it a little harder.

Just my $.02

jsears1864
Sun Aug 23rd, 2009, 12:34 AM
hes just trying to kick them damn praire dogs... i do it all the time too.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/jsears1864/junkie%20crap/rossikick.jpg
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/jsears1864/junkie%20crap/rossikick.jpg)

hcr25
Mon Aug 24th, 2009, 08:40 AM
Who was the first racer to ever drag his knee? What did other racers think about him and what he was doing? I bet they all thought he was a crazy fuck for doing that.
Now most every track day rider is more worried about putting a knee down for the first time then doing a clean mistake free lap.

Mike

CaneZach
Mon Aug 24th, 2009, 09:20 AM
Who was the first racer to ever drag his knee? What did other racers think about him and what he was doing? I bet they all thought he was a crazy fuck for doing that.
Now most every track day rider is more worried about putting a knee down for the first time then doing a clean mistake free lap.

Mike

Well, duh! God forbid we know that dragging knee is a result of good body position, speed, and lean angle! Who cares about body position when you can just hang your ass off the seat, get your body crossed up, and put a knee down to "impress da ladiez":slappers:

(Tongue firmly in cheek)

Davy4575
Sat Sep 26th, 2009, 10:17 PM
he could just be airing out the twig n berries. Safer than reaching down to scratch em

Cars-R-Coffins
Sun Sep 27th, 2009, 01:34 PM
It's funny to think that others are experimenting with a technique the best rider in the world uses successfully and then they try to explain how his technique is worthless :banghead: When they start to beat Rossi on a regular basis without the leg technique I'll start paying attention to what they have to say.

Motodrew
Sun Sep 27th, 2009, 01:45 PM
Ya well I can ride with no hands.

Keepitgreen
Sun Sep 27th, 2009, 08:26 PM
I like this theory the best..
I would bet money on it as well.


hes just trying to kick them damn praire dogs... i do it all the time too.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/jsears1864/junkie%20crap/rossikick.jpg
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/jsears1864/junkie%20crap/rossikick.jpg)

Davy4575
Wed Sep 30th, 2009, 12:07 AM
Ya well I can ride with no hands.

you are well on your way to being able to scratch your balls while riding. That way you wont have to stick the left leg out.

dragos13
Wed Sep 30th, 2009, 06:58 AM
What about the idea that they do this in order to put the most amount of weight possible on the outside peg? Of course when you are backing it in to a corner, weighting the outside peg helps keep the rear from coming all the way out. If you were to weight the peg as hard as possible, it could cause your inside leg to come up and off.

Comments? Thoughts? I figure since the thread is still alive we should keep things going :)

RAGrote
Thu Sep 30th, 2010, 04:13 PM
Love the prarie dog idea!!!

The GECCO
Thu Sep 30th, 2010, 04:28 PM
I was going to say I have seen Rossi do it on some right handers too. Tells me he doesn't use his rear brake either.

Not necessarily, there are a fair amount of riders that have the rear brake hooked to a lever under their left thumb. Similar to those screwed up throttles on ATV's nowadays.

vort3xr6
Fri Oct 1st, 2010, 07:48 AM
I actually started doing the leg dangle during the last race at HPR. I was doing it going into turn 1, turn 8, and a few other left handers.

Here is what I found when I did it. This is why I do it and I make no claim that this is why the pros do it. During really hard braking the momentum is traveling forward and you must move your foot back so your toes are on the peg. I let me foot dangle forward to let the momentum do its thing then put the foot back when I start to let up into trail braking.

The other reason was confidence. I felt like I could brake so much harder with the leg out. Must come from my dirt riding days.

The final reason was to relax. Having your leg hang off for some reason made me not do the death grip during braking. I would relax and just let the bike slow down as fast as it could. This gave me more stamina throughout the race and gave me a chance to stretch my leg out and not get cramps.

I don't know. I like doing it, not because it makes me look cool, but because it helps me ride faster, smoother, and more controlled.

I guess everybody is different but I am going to keep doing it.

dragos13
Fri Oct 1st, 2010, 08:30 AM
WOW back from the dead for sure.

Having now experimented with this, I found the following:

When braking hard and being lazy with my clutch release, the rear end gets really loose. By hanging the inside foot off, it allows you to put max pressure on the outside peg. Instead of the bike fish tailing under you, it keeps the rear end kicked out towards the outside.

Now, I realized it was only cuz my downshifts and clutch releases were so lazy that the rear got loose in the first place. I decided instead of trying to bandage the situation and stick my leg out, I would instead blip the throttle better and slowly let the clutch out on downshifts. This improved how deep I could go into a corner, and gave me more time to do it later and later. When you have your foot off, you are pretty much in "pause" mode waiting for things to settle down.

With back to back practices, I was on average 1 second faster NOT putting my foot out. So, thats my $.02 and how it worked for me :)

Scer
Fri Oct 1st, 2010, 08:39 AM
What about the idea that they do this in order to put the most amount of weight possible on the outside peg? Of course when you are backing it in to a corner, weighting the outside peg helps keep the rear from coming all the way out. If you were to weight the peg as hard as possible, it could cause your inside leg to come up and off.

Comments? Thoughts? I figure since the thread is still alive we should keep things going :)

Good thought Casey.

What about if they are using the wind drag of the leg to make a force to use to plant the rear more.

So when you are turning you stick out your leg to use the aerodynamic drag to help plant the opposite leg "plant the bike."

As you are going into a turn, the rear tire comes off the ground (or comes close to) by how much force is being put on the front of the bike. As the rear comes up, the bike has a tendency to swing out to the outside of the turn. Well if you can use the inside leg to transform the aerodynamic drag from the inside leg and moves that force to the outside leg on the peg. Then you have an extra amount of "weight" to use to actually push down on the tires to increase your grip level. In essence.. a human spoiler.

Drag = 1/391 x Cd x A x V^2 (using the standard air equation)

Cd for a tubular sphere is ~.4
A is the leg itself (with leathers). Say 10in. x 27in = 270 in^2/12 (for ft.) =22.5
V is velocity. Let's just see what the drag is at 100 MPH

Drag = (1/391)x.4x(22.5)x(100^2)
=230 lbs. of force

Obviously this is very assuming however, this means if you stick your leg out at 100 MPH you will have an extra ~230 lbs. of force you can use to plant the bike. As you slow down the force wont be as great and you lose some of that force in transporting it from the inside leg to the outside. Not only to plant the rear but to actually use to simply slow the bike down.

That's my story and I am sticking to it. :)

Spoil on Spoilas

~Barn~
Fri Oct 1st, 2010, 08:44 AM
Scer: Everything cool that just happened... You wrecked it.

















:lol:

Scer
Fri Oct 1st, 2010, 08:48 AM
HAHA.. and then Rossi comes out with a big sword named Excalibur..

wreck on wreckas

dragos13
Fri Oct 1st, 2010, 09:13 AM
Damn Oscar, very nice equation and it also makes sense :)

OUTLAWD
Fri Oct 1st, 2010, 09:18 AM
Drag = 1/391 x Cd x A x V^2 (using the standard air equation)

Cd for a tubular sphere is ~.4
A is the leg itself (with leathers). Say 10in. x 27in = 270 in^2/12 (for ft.) =22.5
V is velocity. Let's just see what the drag is at 100 MPH

Drag = (1/391)x.4x(22.5)x(100^2)
=230 lbs. of force



F'in engineers

EDIT

wait...I don't have the eqn in front of me, but what is 1/391? and how do units of ft^2 multiply with mph?...


yeah bro...your units don't work out...at all....I got:

Fd=rho*Cd*v^2*A using your #s = 37lb force :p

dirkterrell
Fri Oct 1st, 2010, 09:40 AM
Drag = 1/391 x Cd x A x V^2 (using the standard air equation)

Cd for a tubular sphere is ~.4
A is the leg itself (with leathers). Say 10in. x 27in = 270 in^2/12 (for ft.) =22.5


Sanity check: a leg covering 22.5 ft^2? No. :) To go from in^2 to ft^2 you need to divide by 12^2 not 12.

Dirk

Mother Goose
Fri Oct 1st, 2010, 09:51 AM
You know I don't speak Spanish...

Scer
Fri Oct 1st, 2010, 10:11 AM
Thanks for the back up guys. See what happens when I do math before coffee!!

Anyway yes the area was all off. It's actually 1.875 ft.^2. So using that then it actually comes out to a smaller 20 lbs but like I said before it still is weight that you can put on the rear tire to make it grip. (or even up to 40 as Dave has it)

here is the breakdown (using Dave's more involved exn):
Cd= .4
rho (@mile high, and 80 degrees F) = .002684 slugs/ft^3
V= 100mph = 146.67 ft/sec
A= 2.25 ft * .832 ft= 1.875 ft^2


so.. Fd = Cd(1/2)ρV^2A = (.4)(1/2)(.002684)(146.67^2)(1.875)=21.65 lbs

There are a lot of variation to the actual true equation of it. Altitude, rider leg width, shape of leathers, temperature etc...

Still my story and I am still sticking to it!! :P

Thanks again guys.

correct on correctas

Scer
Fri Oct 1st, 2010, 10:41 AM
You know I don't speak Spanish...


Que on Que'as

Scer
Fri Oct 1st, 2010, 10:47 AM
F'in engineers

EDIT

wait...I don't have the eqn in front of me, but what is 1/391? and how do units of ft^2 multiply with mph?...


yeah bro...your units don't work out...at all....I got:

Fd=rho*Cd*v^2*A using your #s = 37lb force :p

Ah.. you forgot to divide by 2 or multiply by 1/2... it's a 6 or one hlaf dozen thing. Or you say tomato I say fuck you type thing too. :D

Yeah I was trying to remember the actual exn from when I was in aerodynamics class. I knew that 1/391 *yada yada was the simplified version of it. I also remember that the person next to me had taco bell and that made me very hungry. Everything else I have to google now. lol

google on googlas

Ghettodsm
Fri Oct 1st, 2010, 11:02 AM
he could just be airing out the twig n berries. Safer than reaching down to scratch em

came here to post exactly that. lol

CYCLE_MONKEY
Sun Oct 17th, 2010, 07:50 PM
Naw, y'all got it all wrong. Rossi consistantly overcooks it into every corner, so he hangs the leg out to lever his cheeks off the seat and break the spincter suction between his butthole and the seat, so then he's free to shift his ass, and thus body weight, to the inside of the bike to lower the combined CG and make the corner.:D

thankgod
Sun Feb 6th, 2011, 11:42 AM
:up:
hes just trying to kick them damn praire dogs... i do it all the time too.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/jsears1864/junkie%20crap/rossikick.jpg
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p182/jsears1864/junkie%20crap/rossikick.jpg)

Davy4575
Thu Feb 10th, 2011, 02:24 AM
Since its back from the dead again....That looks likes pueblo

coax
Thu Feb 10th, 2011, 11:20 AM
I think the leg goes out to weight the rear tire a little more under braking and maintain a better contact patch. Think of a start. If the legs aren't on the pegs the possibility of wheelies is increased, due to weight being shifted to the rear. I think it also creates a LITTLE extra drag to help slow down and boy do they need it, at those speeds.

martincjm
Thu Feb 10th, 2011, 04:10 PM
I always thought it was for inside corner blocking. You can't make the bike wider, so why not make the rider wider. It says "Go ahead and pass me, but you're gonna get kicked in the A$$"