V-twin superbikes

[thaitanic]

what ever happen v-twin sportbikes? i dont see them as much as i used to anymore. 10-11 yrs ago everbody was making them. suzuki, honda,aprilia, etc....honda, suzuki discontinued RC51 &TLR....these are great bikes, is there not enough public demand?....whats going on?

[whitebrad]

i think the v-twin sorta hit the wall...

hell, i got one... love it and love 'em... but they seem to be figuring out how to really deliver power on those 4bangers...

[Matty]

^^^ that and they are heavy.

[rybo]

In the late 90's and early 00's the liter V twin was matched against the 750 4 cylinder in the AMA and WSBK race series. When the rules changed to allow the 1000cc 4 cylinder into those classes the V-Twin lost it's advantage and the manufacturers stopped making them.

This year they changed it up again and matched the 1200 CC twin to the 1000 cc 4, but it's really no match.

In terms of ULTIMATE power the 4 cylinder will win every time. Lower reciprocating weight means that the 4 cylinder can operate at MUCH higher RPM's giving an ultimate power advantage.

For us average folks, it doesn't equate to much. My lap time is about the same at HPR on my 13 year old ducati 748, as a modern Kawasaki 600 as a 2003 Yamaha R1. The limiting factor is me. In fact, the 748 shouldn't stand a chance in that company, but it delivers power very predictably and the chassis is really good, so I can carry some additional corner speed that I'm not as comfortable with on the other bikes.

For the average rider I would say that the twin offers some real world advantages. Narrower seat means that shorter riders fit better. The entire engine is inside the frame perimeter, meaning that pegs and handlebars hit the ground and take the brunt of the damage in a tip over. The power delivery is smoother, and the engine has a much wider powerband, which to me makes it easier to ride.

For the folks at the upper echelon of riding performance the ease of riding isn't as big of a deal, they KNOW how to extract the most from the bike and an extra few HP to them is like gold.

Now, the V4....well that's another story. :)

Scott

[Tipys]

I love twins thats all I have to say about this. RC51 I want bad

[dirkterrell]

Did somebody say something about V4s? :) The other day I was working in the garage and had the VF1000R out in the driveway. I was working on the Gixxer and happened to glance over at the 1000R. I was struck by how skinny it looked. Now, I call it "The Beast" for good reasons. It is a mid-80s 1000 and almost nothing about it can be considered small. But its width is quite slim, some 3 inches thinner than the Gixxer, a 750 and 20 years newer. Compared to 1000cc inlines of its era, it is pretty skinny.

Shouldn't be long before we hear about Honda's new V4 bike. Sounds like a 1200cc sport-tourer, with other bikes to follow soon thereafter. Come on Honda, it's time for the next model in the RC30 and RC45 line...

Dirk

[Captain Obvious]

The power delivery is smoother, and the engine has a much wider powerband, which to me makes it easier to ride.


I agree with everything except this. The extra torque in the big twins is much scarier and sudden than the peaky power of the 4s. The vast majority of street riding is done out of the power band for the 4s, so the wider band of the twins is very twitchy in comparison when on and off the throttle.

And you left out the other manufacturers developed the twins to meet Ducati on a level playing field. Then WSBK changed the rules to the 1000s and the twin was outmatched. Boooooo!

[whitebrad]

also, aprilia came out with the rsv4, which is a v-4, this year...

so wait a couple of track years for that to get the bugs all worked out... by then that should be the industry leader, if they stay dedicated to it...

anywhoo

[Aracheon]

I agree with everything except this. The extra torque in the big twins is much scarier and sudden than the peaky power of the 4s. The vast majority of street riding is done out of the power band for the 4s, so the wider band of the twins is very twitchy in comparison when on and off the throttle. <snip>


I suppose that depends on the bike. My 990 Superduke has a sensitive throttle (operating much like the 09 R1 in "A" mode) but it's by no means scarier than any of the I4 litrebikes I've ridden. In fact, I'm quite partial to riding it on the street because the powerband feels so damn linear (until it falls on it's face at 8,000rpm. :( )

[dirkterrell]

Turn up the volume and listen to this:

http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~terrell/bikes/vfrflyby.wmv (http://www.boulder.swri.edu/%7Eterrell/bikes/vfrflyby.wmv)

It's a vid taken by Steve (sfarson here) during the VFR meet here last week. Ahhhhh, the sound of those V4s echoing through the valley...

(Steve, I copied the file to my web site so as not to eat up your bandwidth...)

Dirk

[TheStig]

Triples ftw!




Just stirring the pot some :).

[whitebrad]

noice! vairy noice!

have you heard the aprilia v-4?

there is a vid on you tube... can't grab the link from work...

[DorJammer]

[quote=Captain Obvious;500607]I agree with everything except this. The extra torque in the big twins is much scarier and sudden than the peaky power of the 4s. The vast majority of street riding is done out of the power band for the 4s, so the wider band of the twins is very twitchy in comparison when on and off the throttle.

I have to agree with you on this. My old Kawasaki, and all my Honda inline fours were much more predictable on power delivery, expecially at low end.

But the sheer visceral power of a V Twin as it launches.. WOW

[dirkterrell]

noice! vairy noice!

have you heard the aprilia v-4?


Yes, I have heard it. They're doing pretty well in WSBK with it too.

Dirk

[DavidofColorado]

The V-4's are great looking engines. Twins not so much imo.

[rybo]

Did somebody say something about V4s? :)

Dirk

I intentionally wrote this to try to draw you into this thread....looks like it worked!


I agree with everything except this. The extra torque in the big twins is much scarier and sudden than the peaky power of the 4s. The vast majority of street riding is done out of the power band for the 4s, so the wider band of the twins is very twitchy in comparison when on and off the throttle.

yes and no in my experience. I see your point about street riding for sure. I've had v-twins for a long time, so I may just be used to it.


And you left out the other manufacturers developed the twins to meet Ducati on a level playing field. Then WSBK changed the rules to the 1000s and the twin was outmatched. Boooooo!

Booo if you want, but Ducati read the rulebook, and built the bike best suited to the rules. I can't fault them for that any more than I can fault Honda for the V-5 990 GP bike or Buell entering the 1125 in Daytona Sportbike. That the other manufacturers finally caught on is the cool part and opened a cool period in the development of the motorcycle.




also, aprilia came out with the rsv4, which is a v-4, this year...

so wait a couple of track years for that to get the bugs all worked out... by then that should be the industry leader, if they stay dedicated to it...

anywhoo

Yeah, I want one.

[rforsythe]

I agree with everything except this. The extra torque in the big twins is much scarier and sudden than the peaky power of the 4s. The vast majority of street riding is done out of the power band for the 4s, so the wider band of the twins is very twitchy in comparison when on and off the throttle.

Sorta... I've owned and ridden several twins, and the generally consistent experience is that the power band is less scary to me. There is more power throughout the band (so if you're used to most inlines where you have to give it a handful just to move I can see where this technique is not so good on a twin) but it's consistent and fairly linear. To me the power band jump of some inlines is much worse, as you have to know exactly when to let off a bit or it will jump like crazy - fun on the highway, bad in a turn. To me once I adjusted to the twin (basically just learning throttle control) it was a much more enjoyable experience.

[McVaaahhh]

I never owned a 1000cc I4, only 600's, so it's hard for me to compare I4's to my RC-51 (which is made by Honda BTW :D). My previous bike was a CBR600F4i, and I really liked that bike. It was comfortable and smooth with great track manners.

The RC51 is loud, heavy, gets shitty MPG, parts are ridiculously expensive, and it's like a torture rack to sit on all day. However, I friggen love this bike! The powerband is fairly linear and has crazy amounts of torque. I can cruise the canyons in 2nd or 3rd gear all day long and never have to wring its neck to get a good drive out of the corners.

The biggest thing for me, and a lot of people that own RC51's, is that it's completely different than every other gsxr, cbr, or ninja. It's a sexy bike and the sound that comes out of those dual Yoshimura's is just amazing. It's also one of the few bikes that people ask "What is that?" "I've never heard of that."


Yes Matty, it's an outdated and overweight machine, and performance-wise it's probably not even close to your new ZX6.


However, what my outdated machine has that the newest japanese I-4 doesn't have is:

At the last bike night one week ago I walked out to my bike to take it to the bikini bike wash for Ceez. There were two guys and a girl standing there talking about and pointing to my bike. I was climbing on board and one of the guys says something to me about the how he loves the RC51 and that sort of thing. Then as I'm putting the key in the ignition he says to his buddy. "Sweet, he's going to start it". You just don't get that kind of reaction out of a Raven R6. :D

[Tipys]

^^^^RC51 FTW. Brain you should give me yours.

[dirkterrell]

The biggest thing for me, and a lot of people that own RC51's, is that it's completely different than every other gsxr, cbr, or ninja. It's a sexy bike and the sound that comes out of those dual Yoshimura's is just amazing. It's also one of the few bikes that people ask "What is that?" "I've never heard of that."


I know exactly where you're coming from. My Gixxer is a great track bike, much better than I am as a rider. But I have absolutely no visceral connection to that bike whatsoever.

Dirk

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

In the late 90's and early 00's the liter V twin was matched against the 750 4 cylinder in the AMA and WSBK race series. When the rules changed to allow the 1000cc 4 cylinder into those classes the V-Twin lost it's advantage and the manufacturers stopped making them.

This year they changed it up again and matched the 1200 CC twin to the 1000 cc 4, but it's really no match.

In terms of ULTIMATE power the 4 cylinder will win every time. Lower reciprocating weight means that the 4 cylinder can operate at MUCH higher RPM's giving an ultimate power advantage.
I agree.....with a caveat:

Not so much the reciprocating weight, it's the bore/stroke ratio and materials that determine maximum piston acceleration/decceleration and valve dynamics that determine the ultimate RPM. You could make a very short stroke/big bore v-twin that rev'd higher, but it would most likely be very peaky. In fact, the original 750-4/1000-2 formula was derived at because they thought the v-twin could never rev that high. It did, and with the added airflow thru the engine, made far more power than they expected.

My contention has always been, and borne out by the fact Ducati's have won around 75% of all the WSB titles, is that the displacement rules aren't fair, although it seems to be getting better. We'll see if Super-Spies takes the title!

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I know exactly where you're coming from. My Gixxer is a great track bike, much better than I am as a rider. But I have absolutely no visceral connection to that bike whatsoever.

Dirk
Funny, I do. I love the sound, the speed, and most of all the fact I trust it never to bite me and be forgiving of my (multitude) of sins. It makes me a better rider than I deserve to be.:)

[kawasakirob]

They are fun to ride.

[dirkterrell]

Funny, I do. I love the sound, the speed, and most of all the fact I trust it never to bite me and be forgiving of my (multitude) of sins. It makes me a better rider than I deserve to be.:)

That's what I love about motorcycling: there is something out there for everybody. Well, there will be when Honda builds me a V4 supersport. :)

Dirk

[thaitanic]

I noticed most v-twin riders are older in general. I think the unique characteristics of v-twin bike offers something more than torque and power. Its hard to explain, but V-twins pulls me in for some reason. dam...i miss my TLR

[JonnyD]

I agree, I friggin' LOVE my hawk. I came across it almost by accident last year, an '03 with 4 miles on it still at a dealership. First vehicle I've bought BRAND new. The thing is so much fun in the mountains! I get comments on the bike all the time. Now, if only my riding were up to par and I could properly flog that thing...

[TFOGGuys]

That's what I love about motorcycling: there is something out there for everybody. Well, there will be when Honda builds me a V4 supersport. :)

Dirk

14000 rpm V4 600, ~120 rwhp, under 420 lbs in street trim....Yes, Please:hump::hump::hump::hump:

[PiercedDuc]

My love for twins started by accident. My starter bike was an I-4 (FZR600) and was stolen. After a few months, I found a great deal on a Suzuki TLS. I didn't even know what the difference was between a twin and an inline at that time. I never had (or understood) a love for torque until I had a ton of it. So since then, I've always wanted other torquey twins. So the latest bike had to be a Ducati. My S4R is much lighter than the TL is, I guess the weight issue is dependent on which bike you get. I don't have anything against inlines, just a personal preference. My .02

[thaitanic]

i rode just about everything out there...including two-strokes. it seems older i get, the less i want 1000cc I4. i saw a great deal on 01 TLR on craigslist for $5500...this just might be my second TLR

[chanke4252]

I4's do deliver the power, but I could never get past the powerband. I'll stick with moderately sized twins and have the power when I need it where I need it rather than having to go look for it on an equivalently sized I4. Not as fast, but much easier to deal with and as such more fun to ride imo.

[Jason ON]

Ditto on all the VTwin pros.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

That's what I love about motorcycling: there is something out there for everybody. Well, there will be when Honda builds me a V4 supersport. :)

Dirk
Why not just get the new Aprilia? Not a big fan of twins (though I love the sounds) but the new v4? THERE'S a Finicky Italian I can get into. Inline-4 type power and great sounds in a sexy compact package with total adjustability? :hump::)

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I4's do deliver the power, but I could never get past the powerband. I'll stick with moderately sized twins and have the power when I need it where I need it rather than having to go look for it on an equivalently sized I4. Not as fast, but much easier to deal with and as such more fun to ride imo.
People say that but if you overlay the dyno curves of equal displacement twins and 4's you see the torque curves aren't much different, especially with Gixxer or Kawi motors, but that the 4's just keep right on climbing when the twins sign off. Maybe they just FEEL more torquey.

[Airreed]

I have both a twin (RC51) and an Inline 4 (600RR). I just bought the 600rr a few months ago, but it's always a welcome change/treat to ride the RC.
Why I like twins: Sound, they sound dead sexy the deep rumble is just bad ass. They are not a dime a dozen bike, go to a bike night and count the twins to the I4's...then count the RC51s....if you like low RPM tourque you will love twins.

My RC has around 30k miles and I still get compliments on it!

[dirkterrell]

Why not just get the new Aprilia?

Too much coin for a brand new design. Honda will give me what I want for a lot less and they have a long history with the V4. And it's the wrong color. :)

Dirk

[MUSHMEAT]

inline 4 always kicked there ass always cool though wish Kawi had built one....

[Captain Obvious]

Booo if you want, but Ducati read the rulebook, and built the bike best suited to the rules. I can't fault them for that any more than I can fault Honda for the V-5 990 GP bike or Buell entering the 1125 in Daytona Sportbike. That the other manufacturers finally caught on is the cool part and opened a cool period in the development of the motorcycle.

Who is Boooing Ducati? Reread the post. I liked it when the twins were winning. Bumping to 1000 just gave the I4s too much of an advantage. Perhaps they should of given them 850. :)

[rybo]

Who is Boooing Ducati? Reread the post. I liked it when the twins were winning. Bumping to 1000 just gave the I4s too much of an advantage. Perhaps they should of given them 850. :)

I misunderstood your boo...

apologies

[DavidofColorado]

Who is Boooing Ducati? Reread the post. I liked it when the twins were winning. Bumping to 1000 just gave the I4s too much of an advantage. Perhaps they should of given them 850. :)
Are you saying that vtwins can't keep up with an I4 when they both displace 1000cc? They should have their own class or add a couple cylinders. But then again that wouldn't be very sporting. They are better in the twisties though. Much lighter.

[Captain Obvious]

Are you saying that vtwins can't keep up with an I4 when they both displace 1000cc? They should have their own class or add a couple cylinders. But then again that wouldn't be very sporting. They are better in the twisties though. Much lighter.

Yes. Exactly. In multiple race series, they do have their own classes.

Better in the twisties, yes. Lighter, no.
All TL1000R --- 434 lb ---- 135 bhp
2002 Suzuki GSXR1000 --- 374.8 lb -- 160 bhp
2002 honda 954 --- 369.9 lb --- 154 bhp
2002 Ducati 998 ---436lb --- 123bhp
2002 Honda RC51 --- 429lb --- 123bhp

[Captain Obvious]

I misunderstood your boo...

apologies

My first love.

http://www.diseno-art.com/images/Ducati_916_123.jpg

[chanke4252]

People say that but if you overlay the dyno curves of equal displacement twins and 4's you see the torque curves aren't much different, especially with Gixxer or Kawi motors, but that the 4's just keep right on climbing when the twins sign off. Maybe they just FEEL more torquey.

eh, I dunno. dyno's graphs from different dynos aren't exactly interchangeable, so unless it's done on the same dyno it's kind of pointless. Anyway, it's not so much the amount of torque and power, but rather where and how it is delivered, which isn't exactly optimal on the street on most I4's, regardless of gearing.

[DavidofColorado]

Yes. Exactly. In multiple race series, they do have their own classes.

Better in the twisties, yes. Lighter, no.
All TL1000R --- 434 lb ---- 135 bhp
2002 Suzuki GSXR1000 --- 374.8 lb -- 160 bhp
2002 honda 954 --- 369.9 lb --- 154 bhp
2002 Ducati 998 ---436lb --- 123bhp
2002 Honda RC51 --- 429lb --- 123bhp
NICE. If I ever get a job I am going to have to get a twin. Brat may sell me his TL 1000 if I can pry it from his cold dead hands that is...:alien:

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

eh, I dunno. dyno's graphs from different dynos aren't exactly interchangeable, so unless it's done on the same dyno it's kind of pointless. Anyway, it's not so much the amount of torque and power, but rather where and how it is delivered, which isn't exactly optimal on the street on most I4's, regardless of gearing.
Look at how broad and flat the torque curve is on a Gixxer 1k.

[Xtremjeepn]

Kind of a fun thread to read.

I currently have a twin (sv650), a Triple (Speed triple) and an inline (07 R1).

I can honestly say I love them all. The neat thing is the triple, torque of a twin, but revs like an inline.

[Wintermute]

The reason twins kick ass can't be seen on a dyno. It's all about the power delivery. (Which Yamaha has mimicked with the new "Crossplane" technology.)

Basically, the straight, linear "rip" that conventional I-4s deliver to the rear wheel don't give the tire enough time to "rest" and grab the road between power pulses. The slower pulses of Vs allow this, allowing the average rider to get on it harder out of a corner without traction problems. That's the theory anyway.


^^^ that and they are heavy.
My bike's around 387 dry (410 stock).

Be nice if they carried the RC8R over here. 180hp w/kit, same as the 1198S, so twins can make some power:
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/2009-KTM-RC8R-1.jpg

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

The reason twins kick ass can't be seen on a dyno. It's all about the power delivery. (Which Yamaha has mimicked with the new "Crossplane" technology.)

Basically, the straight, linear "rip" that conventional I-4s deliver to the rear wheel don't give the tire enough time to "rest" and grab the road between power pulses. The slower pulses of Vs allow this, allowing the average rider to get on it harder out of a corner without traction problems. That's the theory anyway.


My bike's around 387 dry (410 stock).

Be nice if they carried the RC8R over here. 180hp w/kit, same as the 1198S, so twins can make some power:
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/2009-KTM-RC8R-1.jpg
Theory anyways....

sure they can make power.....as long as you allow them to run their +200cc cheater moters.:)

I do like the looks of that Katoomer though.:hump:

[peteremsley]

2002 Ducati 998 ---436lb --- 123bhp
2002 Honda RC51 --- 429lb --- 123bhp

I'd never have thought a 998 was porkier than a RC51. I was under the impression that the testaretta engine was lighter than its predecessor.

I have an i4 and two twins. IMO twins deliver on the street.

[rybo]

I'd never have thought a 998 was porkier than a RC51. I was under the impression that the testaretta engine was lighter than its predecessor.

I have an i4 and two twins. IMO twins deliver on the street.

It's tough to compare published weight to published weight as manufacturers use different states to weigh the bikes in. For example, did the radiator have fluid in it? Was there oil in the engine? Was the battery in the bike? How about fuel?

So, the published weight isn't all that accurate.

BTW....twins deliver on the track too. I rode Jim Brewer's 04 RSVR at HPR this weekend....let's just say, AWESOME!

[Captain Obvious]

BTW....twins deliver on the track too. I rode Jim Brewer's 04 RSVR at HPR this weekend....let's just say, AWESOME!

No doubt. Trey Batey passed me at VIR on the front straight. We were both riding bikes labeled TLR, but clearly had different understandings of what the bikes would do.

[mra# 527]

Funny I dont see really any mention of the 1098 or the 1198 both of
those bike will hang with any I4>>> Ive had both and I can tell
you my 1098 is the best bike Ive owned hands down.

1098 is just as fast if not more than the liter I4's that Ive owned.
and very light.

[Matt]

You can subscribe to the Honda V4 newsletter here:

http://www.honda-v4.co.uk/en/en/News

I'm hoping the new bike is more sport oriented. But the teasers suggests its more of an ST1100 replacement than a sportbike.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Funny I dont see really any mention of the 1098 or the 1198 both of
those bike will hang with any I4>>> Ive had both and I can tell
you my 1098 is the best bike Ive owned hands down.

1098 is just as fast if not more than the liter I4's that Ive owned.
and very light.
Funny, the objective comparo tests I've read always show the I-4's making more HP (if little less tq), and being quicker (1/4) and faster on the top end.

[rybo]

Funny, the objective comparo tests I've read always show the I-4's making more HP (if little less tq), and being quicker (1/4) and faster on the top end.

Frank,

you've always been a HP guy.

Power to weight would be a good comparision

but really, what makes the ducati great is how well developed the chassis is. Bumpy track? OK. The ducati deals with it easily, and the I4s not as good.

You want to compare empirical data to empirical data, that's fine, but no two manufacturers use the same dyno on the same day with the same tire, strapped down the same way, so the published HP numbers are useless. Also, no two manufacturers use the same scale with the same set up, so that's pretty useless too.

Really, it comes down to what works for you. For me, I go better on 2 cylinder motorcycles, so I will hope to continue to race them.

I find the ducati (and aprilia) amazingly easy to go pretty fast on. I'm more than willing to take your bike to the track and wear out the tires to see if I could go faster on your mighty gixxer....

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Frank,

you've always been a HP guy.

Power to weight would be a good comparision

but really, what makes the ducati great is how well developed the chassis is. Bumpy track? OK. The ducati deals with it easily, and the I4s not as good.

You want to compare empirical data to empirical data, that's fine, but no two manufacturers use the same dyno on the same day with the same tire, strapped down the same way, so the published HP numbers are useless. Also, no two manufacturers use the same scale with the same set up, so that's pretty useless too.

Really, it comes down to what works for you. For me, I go better on 2 cylinder motorcycles, so I will hope to continue to race them.

I find the ducati (and aprilia) amazingly easy to go pretty fast on. I'm more than willing to take your bike to the track and wear out the tires to see if I could go faster on your mighty gixxer....
Hey Rybo, hope all's well with you and the family.

The latest comparo I read included the Ducati on the same day, and it was up a little on tq, but down in hp, acceleration, and top speed. I applaud them though, because after years of producing heavier bikes the new bike is lighter than the others, possible exception being the Honda. I agree the Ducati's seem to have better suspension, but I think that's a matter of price. If you're going to spend a couple grand (if not $15k) more, I'd expect better suspension. If i remember correctly, the Ducati was the fastest around the track. I still fail to see why the Japanese makers don't come out with "specials" with REAL suspension upgrades. suzuki especially, with all it's AMA titles. Yoshimura had a few back in the day (Tornado), but they were too expensive. I sure wanted one though.:)

Here's a comparo, take a Ducati (R model, is it?), and send a Gixxer 1k to KWS and spend the same total money on it and give it equal displacement. Dyno them, 1/4mi them, top speed test 'em, and track test 'em. Gloves off, and we'll see who wins!:)

I'll make the popcorn!:)

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I find the ducati (and aprilia) amazingly easy to go pretty fast on. I'm more than willing to take your bike to the track and wear out the tires to see if I could go faster on your mighty gixxer....
Well, it's not a Yamaha, so I guess it'd come back in one piece!:)

I might let you do that one day if you promise to set my suspension up for me. Now, she's kinda old, so go easy on 'er! (Not!) although, the suspension is probably way too worn for best effect.

[Captain Obvious]

Funny I dont see really any mention of the 1098 or the 1198 both of
those bike will hang with any I4>>> Ive had both and I can tell
you my 1098 is the best bike Ive owned hands down.

1098 is just as fast if not more than the liter I4's that Ive owned.
and very light.

You are right, unfortunately, you are spotting the twin 100 or even 200 ccs. The bump in displacement of the twins was needed to balance the difference between the I4 and twin power plants.

[ThorsTwin]

I have an 08 CBR1000rr & I really love that bike. Having had a couple of RC51's prior to a literbike, I felt I really missed the RC. Earlier this year I liberated a pristine 06 RC51 from some fucktard with 1500 miles on it with several mods. All I can say now is that I have the best of both worlds. If push came to shove, I'd sell the CBR first.

[mra# 527]

You are right, unfortunately, you are spotting the twin 100 or even 200 ccs. The bump in displacement of the twins was needed to balance the difference between the I4 and twin power plants.
So that means what? Less cc more power big deal. A 500 gp bike would take dump on the I4s that are out now.

I used to sell Jap inline 4's and rode a ton of them.
Every year for the past few years the 10r the R1 GSXR ect ect.

The 1098 I have has the 70mm full sys with race ecu and yes more
exspensive but as I stated before nothing I have ridden yet handles and
runs thru the gears as hard as my Duc. If its about $$$ the Duc is the
wrong bike #1 and yes the I4 will perform for next to nothing. Im not sure
what that means other than bang for the buck.

As I stated Ive had at least 10 or more I4's over the years and they
are killer!! However none of them have half the soul of my bike.
Im sure that sounds really cliche but its so true.

[DavidofColorado]

Some bold statements being made above.

[Wrider]

So that means what? Less cc more power big deal. A 500 gp bike would take dump on the I4s that are out now.

Not quite... the 500cc 2 strokes were pushed out by the 1000cc 4 strokes. Given equal work porting/polishing, intakes, exhaust, etc, a 2 stroke needs to be about 60% of the size of a 4 stroke to deliver equal power. Now if it was the 500 2 strokes against the current 800cc 4 strokes it'd be a very good race if horsepower alone was the key. If weight was factored in then the 2 strokes would probably win.

Oh, and did you guys know a 4 stroke GS500 can run off of the exhaust of a RM250 2 stroke? I didn't believe it either until I saw it happen... :shocked:

[Ninja Nate]

I'm on my second RC51 now. First was track only, now I have one for the street. I LOVE the twin for street riding, torque anywhere and anytime. I dont see myself having another I4 for the street...

[rybo]

Not quite... the 500cc 2 strokes were pushed out by the 1000cc 4 strokes. Given equal work porting/polishing, intakes, exhaust, etc, a 2 stroke needs to be about 60% of the size of a 4 stroke to deliver equal power. Now if it was the 500 2 strokes against the current 800cc 4 strokes it'd be a very good race if horsepower alone was the key. If weight was factored in then the 2 strokes would probably win.



Yup,

When the rules changed to downsize four stroke moto GP bikes to 800cc the 500CC two stroke was completely forbidden. Up till that point the 500CC two stroke would have been legal, but completely uncompetitive against the 990cc four stroke.

A couple of teams tried to run them in the first season against the new 990's and got creamed.

s

[PoisonRVT]

The twin is just it's own sweet 2-cylinder orchestra. There is nothing that sounds so sexy as decelerating in first or second from red line on the rc and shooting your twin flames as you come under 8000. The problem is it becomes addicting.

Anyone interested in organizing a v-twin sportbike ride??

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Yup,

When the rules changed to downsize four stroke moto GP bikes to 800cc the 500CC two stroke was completely forbidden. Up till that point the 500CC two stroke would have been legal, but completely uncompetitive against the 990cc four stroke.

A couple of teams tried to run them in the first season against the new 990's and got creamed.

s
Also, the 2-strokes had been progressively neutered for the last few years until their banning anyways. They were forced to run unleaded fuel, and I believe they changed the allowable octane rating also. In their heyday, without the 990's TC and other electronic aids, I'd say they'd have given them a serious run for the money. In fact, there were a couple tracks where the 2-strokes records stood for years. I think Schwantz had the Assen record if (my failing:)) memory serves....