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Sean
Tue Sep 1st, 2009, 07:51 PM
What's a good way to brake later, into a corner, on the track?

I've tried using braking markers but I think I still get off the gas, wait for the later marker and then brake. Which doesn't seem like that would help. I tried getting a little familiar with trail braking at R2SL, but as a canyon rider I am usually setting up my corner speed ahead of time which doesn't allow much braking in the corner.

Any ideas of good ways to work on this? I'd like to find a way to work on it where I am actually still on the gas longer without going into a corner hotter than I'm comfortable. Maybe slower on the straights and speed up towards the corner? Ideas?
Thanks.

Aracheon
Tue Sep 1st, 2009, 07:53 PM
Quit being a wuss. :D

Sean
Tue Sep 1st, 2009, 07:55 PM
Yeah, I think that's problem #1 :banghead:

64BonnieLass
Tue Sep 1st, 2009, 08:03 PM
Hahaha, loved this topic. Here is what I was told in part:

"When your gut tells you to grip, to brake, wait 2 more seconds. Do this consistently for each turn in question.

Or

Let the bike go 2 feet at a time. Learn the acceptance level of said brakes. Learn how they work and how hard you can squeeze."

I'm still trying Sean, but that was the advice to me this weekend. I suck at it but it's my personal goal. :)

Matty
Tue Sep 1st, 2009, 08:06 PM
Quit being a wuss. :D
+1 and learn how to spell "Brake."

64BonnieLass
Tue Sep 1st, 2009, 08:08 PM
Oh crap, I do suck at that one. Whoops and blow me!!! Yes, all at the same time, you heard me.

dirkterrell
Tue Sep 1st, 2009, 08:08 PM
Something I learned at the Pridmore school that helped me with this exact problem: slow down. I was having trouble making myself brake later going into turn 4 at HPR. I do fine at Pueblo because I know if I blow it, I can just keep going and come around and re-enter the track. But I was having trouble pushing past my marker at HPR because the survival instinct kicks in. :)

I asked Jason about this and he suggested that I try this: If you're doing, say 140 at your marker, say #4, then practice going in at 130 or 120 and roll-off/brake/downshift* at 3.5 or 3. Get used to being comfortable at your new marker, then start picking your speed up and using that same marker. If it works for you like it did for me, you'll be doing your original speed deeper into the corner entrance.

* Another thing I learned: this is a single action rather than roll-off, then brake, then downshift.

Dirk

rybo
Tue Sep 1st, 2009, 10:08 PM
Dirk,

I think the advice you got from Jason is excellent.

It is impossible to practice a new skill at 100%. If you're going at your maximum you are already using all of your "processing" capacity and do not have anything left to try a new skill.

Sean, I would pick one corner to work on. When I'm coaching riders at HPR I like them to practice into T1 because I can stand on the wall and SEE what they do, take some video even and SHOW them. Otherwise it's subjective on the part of the rider as to what they THINK they are doing instead of what they are actually doing. Brake markers, slowing down just a little and practicing the skill consistently are the keys. Once you can do it at 70% then start ramping up the speed again, once you get to your previous "100%" you're likely to discover that it's pretty easy to go faster than you had before because you have built capacity.

Looking forward to seeing you out there!

Scott

OUTLAWD
Tue Sep 1st, 2009, 10:52 PM
I have the same problem... and it seems when I pick up my pace, I brake harder and earlier, and end up actually going slower through the corner...:banghead:

I am going to try what dirk said...because, well, it makes sense

Thanks all for some great advice!

Scott, maybe you just need to yell at me in the hot pit, then I will try to actually commit to the corner...haha

Captain Obvious
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:06 AM
I was told just wait until you see god, then brake.

Bueller
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 05:40 AM
I was told just wait until you see god, then brake.
And if there is no God, how would that work?:)

dirkterrell
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 07:31 AM
I was told just wait until you see god, then brake.

Well, if you're Kevin Schwantz you can do that and live. :)

Dirk

dirkterrell
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 07:45 AM
Here you go Sean. Just learn how to do what Kevin does at about 1:45 in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In7PczPyfIM

Rainey's "in your face" at about 2:10 is pretty good. Man, there was some damn good racing for a few years between those two...

Dirk

dragos13
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 07:47 AM
Something I learned at the Pridmore school that helped me with this exact problem: slow down. I was having trouble making myself brake later going into turn 4 at HPR. I do fine at Pueblo because I know if I blow it, I can just keep going and come around and re-enter the track. But I was having trouble pushing past my marker at HPR because the survival instinct kicks in. :)

I asked Jason about this and he suggested that I try this: If you're doing, say 140 at your marker, say #4, then practice going in at 130 or 120 and roll-off/brake/downshift* at 3.5 or 3. Get used to being comfortable at your new marker, then start picking your speed up and using that same marker. If it works for you like it did for me, you'll be doing your original speed deeper into the corner entrance.

* Another thing I learned: this is a single action rather than roll-off, then brake, then downshift.

Dirk

+1 on this info. Its exactly what Mark from Vanmar told me to do and it really helps.

Once you get used to braking deeper at a slower pace, then slowly start getting back up to speed at 5mph incriments. Once you are comfortible enough, then get back to full speed but still keep the deeper brake marker.

Another thing, pay attention to what you are looking at. Have your eyes scan as far ahead as possible. I found myself staring at the cone in turn 4 at HPR so I would slow way to much, and actually get back on the gas before the apex. When i started scanning ahead and looking at the tower at T5, i was no longer over braking.

64BonnieLass
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 08:49 AM
I was told just wait until you see god, then brake.


And if there is no God, how would that work?:)


Hahaha, that'll wake you up in the mornin. Too funny. :lol:

Sean
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 09:00 AM
Thanks for the tips everybody! Please keep it coming if you have more to add :up:

Well, if you're Kevin Schwantz you can do that and live. :)
<-- Not Kevin Schwantz :(

Another thing, pay attention to what you are looking at. Have your eyes scan as far ahead as possible. I found myself staring at the cone in turn 4 at HPR so I would slow way to much, and actually get back on the gas before the apex. When i started scanning ahead and looking at the tower at T5, i was no longer over braking.
Great point. This is something that I have actually been working on a lot lately on canyon rides. While it's hard to "trust" the street conditions, it definitely gives a different sensation when going through a non-blind corner. Just trying to keep my eyes up more as I'm looking through the corner helps carry more speed and confidence.

But is there such a thing as looking ahead to far?

TFOGGuys
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 09:14 AM
Another thing that helps is run the whole track in say, 4th or 5th gear, without using the brakes at all(no-brake drill), and slowly ramp up your speed to your max comfort level. As you become more accustomed to carrying corner speed, when you ride with the brakes, you'll find less tendency to overbrake. I remember reading an article a few years back where one of Keith Code's instructors did laps around Pueblo, and was only about .9 seconds slower in the no-brake drill than in an all out, race pace lap.

racedk6
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:00 PM
Thanks for the tips everybody! Please keep it coming if you have more to add :up:

<-- Not Kevin Schwantz :(

Great point. This is something that I have actually been working on a lot lately on canyon rides. While it's hard to "trust" the street conditions, it definitely gives a different sensation when going through a non-blind corner. Just trying to keep my eyes up more as I'm looking through the corner helps carry more speed and confidence.

But is there such a thing as looking ahead to far?


When I am coming up to a corner I try and spot my apex then look through the corner to find where I want to be on the exit.

McVaaahhh
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:21 PM
Sean, just wait. :D

jplracing
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:29 PM
Here you go Sean. Just learn how to do what Kevin does at about 1:45 in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In7PczPyfIM

Rainey's "in your face" at about 2:10 is pretty good. Man, there was some damn good racing for a few years between those two...

Dirk

There also about a dozen examples in this video of what Dirk is talking about.

If you look at 3:25 of it...I need to learn to pass while on the back wheel :shocked:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed727YpsIRE&feature=related

Snowman
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 12:31 PM
Don't start by braking...

Start down shifting first and use the RPMs to reduce your speed. It seems to work really well in situations like turn 1 a Pueblo.

dirkterrell
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:40 PM
There also about a dozen examples in this video of what Dirk is talking about.

If you look at 3:25 of it...I need to learn to pass while on the back wheel :shocked:

Yeah, that was the "in your face" move I was talking about. Racing sure seemed to be more exciting back then. It seems that all the electronics and other technical wizardry has taken a toll. Spies talks about that a bit in this interview:

Part 1:
http://www.onthethrottle.com/content/view/307/30/

Part 2:
http://www.onthethrottle.com/content/view/314/1/

Part 3:
http://www.onthethrottle.com/content/view/319/30/

Dirk

dragos13
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 01:55 PM
Don't start by braking...

Start down shifting first and use the RPMs to reduce your speed. It seems to work really well in situations like turn 1 a Pueblo.

This could really cause some problems if you are already high in the RPM's.

I am coming into turn 1 at Pueblo in 5th gear at about 12,000 RPM's. If I grabbed my shifts first, that would put 4th gear WAY above redline. Not to mention I have to grab two gears before turning in, so you are talking about 3rd gear now. Good way to drop some valves.

I would say try to be gentle on the brakes at first. Rather then grabbing a whole bunch of brakes right off the bat, gradually squeeze the brakes and do the hardest braking as late in the turn as possible. Once you have brought down the rev's, then grab your shifts.

Snowman
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 02:11 PM
This could really cause some problems if you are already high in the RPM's.

I am coming into turn 1 at Pueblo in 5th gear at about 12,000 RPM's. If I grabbed my shifts first, that would put 4th gear WAY above redline. Not to mention I have to grab two gears before turning in, so you are talking about 3rd gear now. Good way to drop some valves.Strange I have never had that issue.

Of course, I do let off the throttle as I shift down. I know I can go into turn 1 full throttle, let go throttle and shift from 6th to 5th to 4th in n matter of 2 seconds and not have the rear end come around. At which point I set the corner using the brake.

However, I am unable to go from 3rd to 2nd to 1st without the rear end coming around every time.

hcr25
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 02:20 PM
Strange I have never had that issue.

Of course, I do let off the throttle as I shift down. I know I can go into turn 1 full throttle, let go throttle and shift from 6th to 5th to 4th in n matter of 2 seconds and not have the rear end come around. At which point I set the corner using the brake.

However, I am unable to go from 3rd to 2nd to 1st without the rear end coming around every time.


All of this will vary depending on your speed,gearing and bike. Your full throttle and his full throttle can be very different. :)

Snowman
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 02:22 PM
True, I should clarify this statement by saying that I can do this with an 99 SV650.

pilot
Wed Sep 2nd, 2009, 11:42 PM
Here are some solid reasons for trail braking in a turn.



Minimize the amount and speed of suspension movement
Modify bike's attitude for faster and easier steering
Reduce reaction time for brakes and throttle
Maximize directional stability



IF you want to learn more about the specific techniques and reasons behind these techniques, we teach them in the Total Control Level 1 and 2 courses. Check with Curt from T3RG. He might just have some interesting points to offer.




Avoid "charging" the corner. That way you won't be slamming off the throttle going into the turn. Better slow in and fast out. You should be starting to ease off the brakes just before your turn point. Weight transfer will keep the front end loaded to assist in initiating the turn-in. Continue to ease off the brakes as you progress through the turn. In general, you should be off the brakes half way through your turn. Of course, each track, road, turn, apex out there will be different. The key is to develop your technique at slower speeds in a consistent turn, say, a clean, safe parking lot. Once you have the correct technique down you can practice it over and over. This will give you a baseline to judge your confidence and skill upon. Then, you can take this out to the road/track and practice it at higher speeds under varying conditions to see what works best for you.

You could do this by yourself, but it is always safer and more informative to do it with a skilled instructor. Nothing like a pair of trained eyes to see it from another angle. Consider taking a look at different courses out there and what they have to offer. Have fun and ride well!

Sean
Thu Sep 3rd, 2009, 09:37 AM
I would say try to be gentle on the brakes at first. Rather then grabbing a whole bunch of brakes right off the bat, gradually squeeze the brakes and do the hardest braking as late in the turn as possible. Once you have brought down the rev's, then grab your shifts.But if you do your hard braking late in the corner, don't you have more of a chance to tuck the front end?

dragos13
Thu Sep 3rd, 2009, 10:00 AM
But if you do your hard braking late in the corner, don't you have more of a chance to tuck the front end?

Yes of course, but becoming faster will always get you closer to the "limit"

Its all about being smooth, hanging WAY off the bike to keep it as upright as possible, having good suspension and rubber, and learning your limit. Some corners you will brake hard prior to entrance while still straight up(like HPR turn 1) while some require more trailbraking (Pueblo turn 1).

The later you brake, the more feet-per-second you carry at the end of the acceleration (fastest spots between turns).

kawasakirob
Thu Sep 3rd, 2009, 12:17 PM
There is a good article on trail braking in the October issue of Cycle World. Might be of help.

nwatkins
Mon Sep 14th, 2009, 12:13 PM
There are a lot people me included that have a problem with coasting. On a racetrack there should be no coasting. Off the gas, then on the brakes. Not of the gas, coast, coast, coast, then apply breaks. The same applys for dirt bikes, if you coast the bike does not handle well and will bounce around entering turns. A bike on the gas is a happy bike. Stay on the gas, then apply the brakes. Don't coast.

Sean
Mon Sep 14th, 2009, 12:22 PM
Thanks for bringing this back to life. I want to thank everybody for the advise. Little by little I would try and go deeper into a corner. I dropped ALOT of time by just trying to take off a little at a time. Angela was timing me and I would consecutively drop a second each lap. I never tried to push it to hard, just tried to go closer to the next break marker. It felt great!

And Casey, sorry I never hooked up with you (even though I asked for your help). I went out with Elden for awhile. I appreciate the willingness to help. :up:

eklew
Mon Sep 14th, 2009, 12:32 PM
Yeah, sorry about my bike breaking down or else I would have been out there more to help you out Sean. You did look a lot better from what I could see!!!!

dragos13
Mon Sep 14th, 2009, 12:56 PM
And Casey, sorry I never hooked up with you (even though I asked for your help). I went out with Elden for awhile. I appreciate the willingness to help. :up:

Sounds like you were in good hands Sean. Hopefully I can help you on the next trackday and maybe even see you on the grids next year :)

OUTLAWD
Mon Sep 14th, 2009, 01:23 PM
maybe I'll try to hunt one of you guys down as well next time...

In the later sessions I was trying to brake later and trail brake a bit into a few of the corners, but it almost felt as if the bike didn't want to turn in as well as when I was braking then diving in...which is the opposite of what it should do. Previously, I had success trail braking at slower tracks(read IMI)...

I am thinking this was totally unrelated to my braking, and more that I was begining to carry more speed (trying not to coast :oops:), and when I would downshift, the revs were significantly higher due to my higher entrance speed and the inertia of the engine at the higher rpm was wanting to keep it vertical...i kind of noticed similar behavior making transitions in the corkscrew as I got my speed up a bit.

Is this somewhat correct, and I'll just have to man up and throw it into the corners harder? or am I totally off base?

dragos13
Mon Sep 14th, 2009, 01:38 PM
maybe I'll try to hunt one of you guys down as well next time...

In the later sessions I was trying to brake later and trail brake a bit into a few of the corners, but it almost felt as if the bike didn't want to turn in as well as when I was braking then diving in...which is the opposite of what it should do. Previously, I had success trail braking at slower tracks(read IMI)...

I am thinking this was totally unrelated to my braking, and more that I was begining to carry more speed (trying not to coast :oops:), and when I would downshift, the revs were significantly higher due to my higher entrance speed and the inertia of the engine at the higher rpm was wanting to keep it vertical...i kind of noticed similar behavior making transitions in the corkscrew as I got my speed up a bit.

Is this somewhat correct, and I'll just have to man up and throw it into the corners harder? or am I totally off base?

You are absolutely correct about the gyroscopic effect you feel when the bike is at high RPM's. What type of bike do you ride? On my R6, you basically have to keep it at 12,000RPM's or higher so it might be a matter of which bike you are on.

When in the corner (set throttle and lean angle) does it feel like the bike has to be forced to stay on the turning radius? Does it want to run wide or are you having to keep it from falling over? Do you notice keeping input on the bars? Could you (in theory) just let go of the bars and will the bike stay its course?

Find me next time for sure if you would like me to follow you or help with the cornering.

Also, did you feel like the faster speeds were making you turn into the corner sooner? Sometimes when you are above that comfort zone you will edge towards the corner sooner then at a relaxed pace. This can tighten up the entire radius of the corner making it harder no matter what rev's you are at.

Sean
Mon Sep 14th, 2009, 02:00 PM
Hopefully I can help you on the next trackday For sure, that would be great! :up:


and maybe even see you on the grids next year :)There's a good chance I'll do a few. Besides, someone has to bring up the back of the grid. :D

OUTLAWD
Mon Sep 14th, 2009, 02:00 PM
You are absolutely correct about the gyroscopic effect you feel when the bike is at high RPM's. What type of bike do you ride? On my R6, you basically have to keep it at 12,000RPM's or higher so it might be a matter of which bike you are on.

K3 Gix 7fiddy, probably around 10K+ when I noticed it


When in the corner (set throttle and lean angle) does it feel like the bike has to be forced to stay on the turning radius? Does it want to run wide or are you having to keep it from falling over? Do you notice keeping input on the bars? Could you (in theory) just let go of the bars and will the bike stay its course?

it feels pretty much stable as far as I can tell, with relativley little input on the bars, and is very easy to change direction mid corner (to say get around someone) with slight bar input.

It does want to push wide when I roll on the throttle any more than just maintaining the throttle, and after watching some video, this seemed to force me to drive out way later than people running about the same pace as me


Find me next time for sure if you would like me to follow you or help with the cornering.

Also, did you feel like the faster speeds were making you turn into the corner sooner? Sometimes when you are above that comfort zone you will edge towards the corner sooner then at a relaxed pace. This can tighten up the entire radius of the corner making it harder no matter what rev's you are at.

I was really f-ing up my brake markers, but I tried my best to keep my turn in markers and lines consistent throughout the day, and as I was picking up speed.

Thanks alot...I'll def scope you out next time

64BonnieLass
Mon Sep 14th, 2009, 02:10 PM
This is an awesome thread. I've read it 10 times, working on 11. :) Very good information.

dragos13
Tue Sep 15th, 2009, 07:10 AM
K3 Gix 7fiddy, probably around 10K+ when I noticed it

it feels pretty much stable as far as I can tell, with relativley little input on the bars, and is very easy to change direction mid corner (to say get around someone) with slight bar input.

It does want to push wide when I roll on the throttle any more than just maintaining the throttle, and after watching some video, this seemed to force me to drive out way later than people running about the same pace as me

I was really f-ing up my brake markers, but I tried my best to keep my turn in markers and lines consistent throughout the day, and as I was picking up speed.

Thanks alot...I'll def scope you out next time

So that is something we might want to focus on. Rolling on the throttle should make your bike want to stand up but not run wide. What suspension do you have? Stock rear shock? Does it seem like you have to slowly get back on the throttle to stay in the radius of your turn? Its possible you have too much rake in the front end.

OUTLAWD
Tue Sep 15th, 2009, 07:48 AM
So that is something we might want to focus on. Rolling on the throttle should make your bike want to stand up but not run wide. What suspension do you have? Stock rear shock? Does it seem like you have to slowly get back on the throttle to stay in the radius of your turn? Its possible you have too much rake in the front end.


to try to fight this, on the exits I have been trying to force my upper body down lower, trying to stand the bike up, so I can get on it harder, but it only gets me a little.

Stock F/R everything. Sag set as close as possible by Sir Rybo. The front is still a bit soft, but out of preload. Haven't messed with the damping because honestly I don't know what I'm doing with it, as in what adjustments will have what effect on what part of the bikes handling.

Once I set the radius and speed in a corner, I pretty much hold constant throttle, or roll on slowly, to hold my line, until the last bit of the turn when I know I can get on it without running too wide.

The forks are above the top triple clamp by 2-3 mm IIRC. It was like this when I got it, and I haven't noticed any stability issues, so I haven't messed with it. Should I maybe mess with raising them more? or might it be that the rebound is letting it out too fast and lengthening the forks?

Thanks man! I'm def gonna have to hit you up in person next time I'm out if nothing more than to shake your hand.

dragos13
Tue Sep 15th, 2009, 07:59 AM
to try to fight this, on the exits I have been trying to force my upper body down lower, trying to stand the bike up, so I can get on it harder, but it only gets me a little.

Stock F/R everything. Sag set as close as possible by Sir Rybo. The front is still a bit soft, but out of preload. Haven't messed with the damping because honestly I don't know what I'm doing with it, as in what adjustments will have what effect on what part of the bikes handling.

Once I set the radius and speed in a corner, I pretty much hold constant throttle, or roll on slowly, to hold my line, until the last bit of the turn when I know I can get on it without running too wide.

The forks are above the top triple clamp by 2-3 mm IIRC. It was like this when I got it, and I haven't noticed any stability issues, so I haven't messed with it. Should I maybe mess with raising them more? or might it be that the rebound is letting it out too fast and lengthening the forks?

Thanks man! I'm def gonna have to hit you up in person next time I'm out if nothing more than to shake your hand.

Yeah stock suspension will find its limit quickly on the track. Does your rear shock have any adjustments? I dont think you want to keep dropping the front to make things work. I'm sure Scott has set you up probably to the best possible ability.

Your comment about body position is dead on. You want your upper half as low as humanly possible. Look at the pro's that are dragging elbows. They do this to lower the center of gravity, allowing the bike to turn on the same radius but with less lean angle. Dont force your body down, but rather get comfortable being totally loose and hanging really low. I try to straighten my outside arm, and drive my inner elbow to the ground. You should be able to feel the tank just on the outside of your pec muscle. When I know I'm in a good position, its almost like I'm just relaxing dropped down as low as possible. My arms and shoulders are always really loose. I try and use the windscreen as my gauge. If I know the top of my helmet is even to or lower then the top of my windscreen, I feel to be in a good position.

While a stock bike has its limits, EVERY rider can become smoother and better positioned to make riding fast easier. The first thing I do when trying to "correct" suspension or riding issues, is figure out what I can do as the rider to make input, movement, and responses as smooth as possible.

Remember: SMOOTH IS FAST!!!

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/41/l_f4e4a318cba74e428d88fff6af11980f.jpg

OUTLAWD
Tue Sep 15th, 2009, 08:49 AM
Thanks man. I didn't intend on jacking the thread...

My body position is slowly getting there, and I try to focus before the session and think about what specifically I want to work on, but once I get on the track, my $10 of attention is being spent everywhere except what I wanted to focus on. I am finally picking up markers for shifts and turn-in points...I just have to keep at it and keep bugging you guys...haha

I have defiantley made a ton of progress in the 3 track day I have been to.

My roomate said I looked alot like Pegram...which means I gotta get down
http://www.roadcarvin.com/sites/default/files/images/Larry_Pegram_6829.preview.jpg

dragos13
Tue Sep 15th, 2009, 10:02 AM
Thanks man. I didn't intend on jacking the thread...

My body position is slowly getting there, and I try to focus before the session and think about what specifically I want to work on, but once I get on the track, my $10 of attention is being spent everywhere except what I wanted to focus on. I am finally picking up markers for shifts and turn-in points...I just have to keep at it and keep bugging you guys...haha

I have defiantley made a ton of progress in the 3 track day I have been to.

My roomate said I looked alot like Pegram...which means I gotta get down
http://www.roadcarvin.com/sites/default/files/images/Larry_Pegram_6829.preview.jpg

Yeah he is one crossed up rider lol. That works for many, usually the old school guys.

If you are loosing your attention and cannot fully focus on body position, then take a step back. Lower your riding to maybe 80%, where you are comfortable and not worried about all the intense details. Stay at 80% for a full session, working solely on body position. Next, try doing the same but for body position AND race line. Once you are doing that without thinking, step up to 90% racing.

Another thing I have been told alot as a new racer, you have to slow down to speed up :)

dirkterrell
Tue Sep 15th, 2009, 10:45 AM
Yeah he is one crossed up rider lol. That works for many, usually the old school guys.


This is crossed up:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q161/mukkes/motorsportsite/boettubbergen.jpg

Boet van Dulmen, very popular (and successful) Dutch rider in the 70s and 80s. In my first foray into racing back in the mid-80s, people thought my riding position with my head off towards the grip was odd, but it made sense to me (being a physicist) and felt comfortable. I'm in between Pegram and Casey in terms of upper body position. Now I'm told that I need to get lower and hang off more. :)

http://www.boulder.swri.edu/%7Eterrell/bikes/PMP2008apr26/_igp2239_small.jpg

Dirk

OUTLAWD
Tue Sep 15th, 2009, 11:03 AM
yeah...my upper body is stil a bit high...

dragos13
Tue Sep 15th, 2009, 11:53 AM
Here is what I look at from a rear viewpoint. This is the idea I have of leading with your head, and making sure you aren't crossed up. The angle at which your body is at compared to the angle your bike is at. Remember, this is just my personal opinion, never proven to be correct just what works for me.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii206/dragosracer/PPIR2.jpg

Sean
Tue Sep 15th, 2009, 01:17 PM
Thanks man. I didn't intend on jacking the thread...No worries. It's nice to actually have a thread about riding on this forum. :up:




http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii206/dragosracer/PPIR2.jpgI was told by a couple of racers that you should "kiss the mirror," which it looks like you are doing pretty well in this pic.

dragos13
Tue Sep 15th, 2009, 01:26 PM
I was told by a couple of racers that you should "kiss the mirror," which it looks like you are doing pretty well in this pic.

The "kiss the mirror" technique is perfect for getting an idea of where your head needs to be.

OUTLAWD
Tue Sep 15th, 2009, 01:36 PM
I was told by a couple of racers that you should "kiss the mirror," which it looks like you are doing pretty well in this pic.

Thats what I think I'm doing, but film never lies...maybe what I see in my mirrors just isn't attractive enough for me to get any closer...

Sortarican
Tue Sep 15th, 2009, 02:17 PM
What's a good way to brake later, into a corner, on the track?...

I'd just wait a little longer before pulling on the lever.
(Or am I over simplifying?)

But seriously, I can relate to your comment about just coaster to a later marker.
I did the same thing when trying to brake later at full pace at Pueblo on #1, 9, and 10.
+1 on working at a lower pace in one spot then ramping it back up.

And it can't be overstressed, only work on one thing at a time. (Or at least per session.)
If you try modifying your braking, body position, and line all at the same time you'll never get any of them right.
And probably just end up tucking it into the mud on #1 or something dumb like that.
(I only joke cause you didn't wad the bike or injure yourself....plus that was just plain funny to watch you hosing out 30lbs. of mud from your belly pan.):)

BadR6Man
Tue Sep 15th, 2009, 04:22 PM
One way is to stay on the gas and wait for the person in front is you to hit his brakes, just pass him and then hammer your brakes. Have you ever thought about trail braking?? If you do find yourself too hot entering the corner, roll off of the ft brakes but keep riding it almost to the apex if needed.

racedk6
Tue Sep 15th, 2009, 08:46 PM
The "kiss the mirror" technique is perfect for getting an idea of where your head needs to be.


I would say more of a replace the mirror with your head :)