Early 2000 diesel truck advice

[Lurch]

Looking for a used 3/4 to 1 ton truck. Any brands I should stay clear of and any thing to look for?

[Zach929rr]

If I was going to buy a diesel, it would be something with a Cummins. Dodge built an incredibly well put together I6 motor for the Rams. I've heard Dodge tech's talking about service haulers with Cummins that make it to the 600k+ mi. mark and they can still see the cross hatch on the cylinder walls.

You may not like the Ram's body style or setup though. :dunno: Powerstroke also wasn't a bad choice, just not as solid overall as the Cummins.

[dues201]

It would have to be a cummins in that era. I had a 2000 3500 that was a great truck, never a problem in 200k and have heard of these engines running 1M miles without a rebuild :shocked:

the other big two wernt great engines at the time. (ford and chevy)

[cosp600rr]

I beg to differ. The cummins is a great motor but so is the powerstroke up till 2003. In 03 they switched to the 6.0 lt. engine and it sucked. The 7.3 is an awesome engine and will go a million miles as well. I have a 7.3 2002 powerstroke with a full exhaust a couple mods to the tranny and a 4 position dp tuner chip. Let me tell you that pulling my 36 ft. toyhauler is like nothing. This thing pulls like theres no tomorrow and gets pretty good gas milage. I have an econo mod for my chip and can regularly get 21 to 22 mpg on the highway and its a crew cab 4x4 3/4 ton.

I think it boils down to what truck style you like the most.



It would have to be a cummins in that era. I had a 2000 3500 that was a great truck, never a problem in 200k and have heard of these engines running 1M miles without a rebuild :shocked:

the other big two wernt great engines at the time. (ford and chevy)

[The Black Knight]

My advice, go with a Cummins. You can't beat em. Just try and find one with a manual transmission. Dodge didn't get rid of their auto tranny problems until they brought out the 3rd Gen 5.9's. Unless you happen to stumble upon one with low mileage(they can be found), then an auto wouldn't be bad.

Not really up on the Duramax's except anything from 2001 on up is a good motor. You can't beat the Allison transmission(except for Dodge's new AISIN trans with exhaust brake). A buddy of mine has a 2001 and the only problems he's had with it are some rear end seals needing to be replaced and his water pump replaced(at 90K miles).

As far as Powerstrokes go, yeah stay away from the 6.0's. The 7.3's are a good motor that's at least reliable. Power wise though compared to a Cummins stock for stock they don't match up. Although the aftermarket is big for the 7.3's and you can do anything to them.

How early 2000's you talking?? 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003?

If you can go to 2003, for sure get a Cummins. That's when they brought out the new(er) body style and new 5.9 with 610lbs of torque. One of my old bosses has a 05(same motor) and it's a anvil. And he treats his trucks like hell.

I'll be honest, I'm bias towards Cummins. Several friends have them, old boss has one and I just bought a 2007 Cummins a few months back. You can't beat em in my opinion. They don't have the top end of the Duramax or Powerstrokes(mainly because they are V8's) but they have more low end grunt(which is where you need it when hauling or towing).

OH yeah one last thing that I will say about the Powerstrokes(as you wanted to know things to stay clear of). Glow Plugs in the Strokers aren't cheap and they do go out. My current boss replaced his in his '99 stroker to the tune of about $900. Duramax's(GM) don't seem to have Glow Plug problems. And well Dodge it's all Heat Exchanger manifolds(which are costly if it goes out, but that is very rare).

Also if you want a truck that will still fire on a super sub-zero morning. Get a Cummins, Powerstrokes can't take the cold very well. If you get a Powerstroke, plan on plugging it in all the time. Only reason I know, is that at my work we've got several Powerstrokes and if they aren't plugged in on cold mornings, good luck getting them to start, because they don't.


I beg to differ. The cummins is a great motor but so is the powerstroke up till 2003. In 03 they switched to the 6.0 lt. engine and it sucked. The 7.3 is an awesome engine and will go a million miles as well. I have a 7.3 2002 powerstroke with a full exhaust a couple mods to the tranny and a 4 position dp tuner chip. Let me tell you that pulling my 36 ft. toyhauler is like nothing. This thing pulls like theres no tomorrow and gets pretty good gas milage. I have an econo mod for my chip and can regularly get 21 to 22 mpg on the highway and its a crew cab 4x4 3/4 ton.

I think it boils down to what truck style you like the most.

See for me it all boils down to the motor. I'm more engine specific or loyal than I am manufacture/brand loyal. I love Ford's and always have been a Ford guy(so has my family). But I won't go near a Powerstroke. I'd take a Powerstroke over any Foreign truck but with the Cummins and Duramax out there, I'd pick those two over the Stroker anyday.

Styling doesn't really bother me. However, GM has the better overall style(inside and out). Though I think the Ram's are bad ass looking. I'll have to be honest, the Ford's aren't that great inside. Really Spartan interiors(again going off of all the work trucks we've got) compared to the three GM's and two Dodge's we've also got on our crew. Styling will always be second to the Engine to me.

[Wrider]

I learned to drive on a 2000 Ram 3500. My uncle owns a farm and puts his trucks through hell and back. He's tried Fords and they couldn't keep up with the loads of trees he hauls or his 5th wheel. His 3500 went for 250K with no problems at all. Well the alignment did go out, but that's due to him bouncing over fields at 50 MPH every day... lol

[Lurch]

Thanks for the advice guys. I have heard get a Cummins on more then one occassion. Not really looking for style and comfort I want cheap and durable because the bigger cheaper truck I buy means the bigger nicer trailer I can afford.

[t_jolt]

Reminds of a little saying :

I'd rather be a cummin than a stroken...

:)

[Kim-n-Dean]

It doesn't matter what brand or what engine. All my buddies have Fords and have never had problems. Another friend has a Dodge and is on his fourth engine. My 2005 F250 has been in the shop about twelve times. I got a bad one, obviously. Just like my buddy with the Dodge. I will admit that the 6.0 has a terrible reputation, though!!

My truck is totally stock and gets about 14.5mpg at best. Kim has gotten 17 out of it. It gets about 7 or below when towing. Buuuuut... I tow a 30 foot toyhauler and a 19 foot boat at the same time and it still outruns the Dodge's and Chevy's towing single trailers.

International and Ford got into a battle over warranty claims and International pulled out. Ford designed yet another engine, in house. Some pretty wild inovations that I hope work because I'll always be a Ford guy!

Check it out.

http://home.comcast.net/~tk4480/CSC/New67V8Diesel.pdf (http://home.comcast.net/%7Etk4480/CSC/New67V8Diesel.pdf)
http://home.comcast.net/~tk4480/CSC/All-New.pdf (http://home.comcast.net/%7Etk4480/CSC/All-New.pdf)
(http://home.somcast.net/%7Etk4480/CSC/New67V8Diesel.pdf)

[Tylar]

I have a 2004 6.0l powerstroke i bought brand new with the early build date and everything, and have never had any issues with it ..... because i have not modded anything on it. 100k miles and keeping the oil, filters and other lubes in a good place and you just about can't go wrong....

If i was in the market, i'd be hesitant to buy a used 6.0l powerstroke. If you want the Ford, i'd try to dig up a 7.3 .... a Cummins would be good, but i'd stay away from the automatics .... the 24v 6-speed manual is a very stout truck.

Just my humble opinion.

BTW, there are a ton of used 24v Cummins up here in Brighton and Fort Lupton for sale.

[rforsythe]

Dean I think some of your issues were also from the shop you were taking it to. Regarding the Ford 6.0's, 03 to mid 04 were the problem years, because Ford decided to alter part of International's design. Once they got over that they've been great (my 05 has zero issues). I put a Triple Dog programmer on my 350 in economy/tow mode and gained power and mileage as well; I can get 21mpg highway, and pulling a 43-foot gooseneck we averaged 12.5mpg to SLC and back this summer going 80mph+ the whole way.

[Kim-n-Dean]

Dean I think some of your issues were also from the shop you were taking it to. That is very true!! Never ever under any circumstances go to Freeway Ford!!!


Regarding the Ford 6.0's, 03 to mid 04 were the problem years, because Ford decided to alter part of International's design. Once they got over that they've been great (my 05 has zero issues). That is also true. The '05 was the "fixed" engine.


I put a Triple Dog programmer on my 350 in economy/tow mode and gained power and mileage as well; I can get 21mpg highway, and pulling a 43-foot gooseneck we averaged 12.5mpg to SLC and back this summer going 80mph+ the whole way.We made that trip at about 85mph and got under 7mpg. I need to reprogram my ECU!!

[InlineSIX24]

If your looking for affordable and reliable don't count out the older Dodge from 96-98. It's the same engine with a mechanical fuel system. They were a bit more reliable than the 98.5+ with the electronic pumps. You can do some mods to any of them (especially cheap on the early Dodge) and run with a brand new truck.

[sag]

+1 on the 12v cummins

when the lift or fuel pump goes out on the 24v, youll be hurting inside

[MileHighColt]

Looking for a used 3/4 to 1 ton truck. Any brands I should stay clear of and any thing to look for?

Cummins is the way to go. My dad (john c on the forum) worked for the Holset Turbo division of Cummins (after 20+ years with Cummins), and did the quality control testing on the engines (1M+ mile tests). He owns a Ram 2500 and hauls his 5th wheel all over the place with nary a problem. He has the manual transmission and added an exhaust brake, but other than that, it's stock. Runs like a champ.

[The Black Knight]

It doesn't matter what brand or what engine. All my buddies have Fords and have never had problems. Another friend has a Dodge and is on his fourth engine. My 2005 F250 has been in the shop about twelve times. I got a bad one, obviously. Just like my buddy with the Dodge. I will admit that the 6.0 has a terrible reputation, though!!

My truck is totally stock and gets about 14.5mpg at best. Kim has gotten 17 out of it. It gets about 7 or below when towing. Buuuuut... I tow a 30 foot toyhauler and a 19 foot boat at the same time and it still outruns the Dodge's and Chevy's towing single trailers.

International and Ford got into a battle over warranty claims and International pulled out. Ford designed yet another engine, in house. Some pretty wild inovations that I hope work because I'll always be a Ford guy!

Check it out.

http://home.comcast.net/~tk4480/CSC/New67V8Diesel.pdf (http://home.comcast.net/%7Etk4480/CSC/New67V8Diesel.pdf)
http://home.comcast.net/~tk4480/CSC/All-New.pdf (http://home.comcast.net/%7Etk4480/CSC/All-New.pdf)
(http://home.somcast.net/%7Etk4480/CSC/New67V8Diesel.pdf)
I'd have to see you out pull a Cummins up a mountain pass since how you're completely Stock. Duramax maybe, but the new Dura's are wicked powerful. But towing a 30ft toy hauler + 19ft boat = about maybe 15,000lbs?? And you're blowing away Cummins and Duramax's with Singles?? :bs: I was born at night but not last night.

I know of a guy that runs a 14 horse trailer loaded with 4 draft horses, other horses + all the tack with his chipped Cummins and can do 75mph up some mountain passes, with plenty of pedal left(not that he does all the time hauling horses). Now that's a chipped truck albeit but he's pulling easy 20,000lbs+

So I'd be hardpressed to see a stock Stroker(6.0 even) pull as hard as you say. They're runners but they ain't that good. We loaded up our F550 dumptruck with 13 skidloader bucket loads of gravel and it could barely do 40mph up Fillmore hill, puffin smoke(white) and smelling like anit-freeze(and it's a newer 6.0).


Dean I think some of your issues were also from the shop you were taking it to. Regarding the Ford 6.0's, 03 to mid 04 were the problem years, because Ford decided to alter part of International's design. Once they got over that they've been great (my 05 has zero issues). I put a Triple Dog programmer on my 350 in economy/tow mode and gained power and mileage as well; I can get 21mpg highway, and pulling a 43-foot gooseneck we averaged 12.5mpg to SLC and back this summer going 80mph+ the whole way.
For you and Dean,

what's up with you guys getting such weird mpg readings. I've managed 24mpg highway and usually do 16-18mpg in town(bone stock). I noticed on highway I get my best fuel mileage running between 65-70mph. Overhead console reading has been as high as 30mpg on highway but I know that's off a bit(plus it's more instaneous readings than average, unless you don't reset it).


Cummins is the way to go. My dad (john c on the forum) worked for the Holset Turbo division of Cummins (after 20+ years with Cummins), and did the quality control testing on the engines (1M+ mile tests). He owns a Ram 2500 and hauls his 5th wheel all over the place with nary a problem. He has the manual transmission and added an exhaust brake, but other than that, it's stock. Runs like a champ.
I've been thinking of adding the exhaust brake to mine. My buddy's got the 6.7 Cummins with the exhaust brake and that thing is amazing coming down a mountain pass. Freakin thing will stop you if you let it. Heck of a way to save on brake pads. I've been reading some forums where guys are easily getting 80,000 miles out of a set of pads because of the exhaust brake.

[MileHighColt]

I've been thinking of adding the exhaust brake to mine. My buddy's got the 6.7 Cummins with the exhaust brake and that thing is amazing coming down a mountain pass. Freakin thing will stop you if you let it. Heck of a way to save on brake pads. I've been reading some forums where guys are easily getting 80,000 miles out of a set of pads because of the exhaust brake.

He put the exhaust brake on knowing he'd be pulling in the Appalachian mountains and out here when they came to visit. It really is an amazing little add on for descending the hills.

[The Black Knight]

He put the exhaust brake on knowing he'd be pulling in the Appalachian mountains and out here when they came to visit. It really is an amazing little add on for descending the hills.
And it's also good for warm-up times. Especially when it's really cold. You can get it direct from Dodge for around $1300(don't know if that's installed or not) but it will be under warranty. The money you'd save in brake pads and parts failing due to high heat and wear is what would make it worth it.

[Kim-n-Dean]

I'd have to see you out pull a Cummins up a mountain pass since how you're completely Stock. Duramax maybe, but the new Dura's are wicked powerful. But towing a 30ft toy hauler + 19ft boat = about maybe 15,000lbs?? And you're blowing away Cummins and Duramax's with Singles?? :bs: I was born at night but not last night. About 12,500 on the toyhauler and about 3,500 on the boat. I probably should jump in the truck next to me and make sure he's got it floored...

[The Black Knight]

About 12,500 on the toyhauler and about 3,500 on the boat. I probably should jump in the truck next to me and make sure he's got it floored...
yeah I ain't saying your Powerstroke isn't great. Just couldn't believe you pulling that much and leaving Cummins and Dura's in the dust. For the most part all three manufactures are fairly equal from the factory(in stock form). Obviously each of the three will do something different/better than the other but they are fairly matched.

So you either got a freak Powerstroke, or you're running old Cummins and older Duramax's. Which I could see if yours is a 6.0 and you're going up against a 12V Cummins. 12V's for all their greatness aren't powerhouses(compared to a New Cummins). I think some of the earlier 12V's(93-95) barely had 200hp and around 450lbs of torque.

As far as I know, Cummins was the first to break 600ft lbs. I know the Powerstroke didn't do it until the 6.4(2008) and not completely sure when the Duramax did it. I know the current Duramax is rated at 660ft lbs. The diesels have taken leaps and bounds within the past 10 years or so.

Supposedly Ford's new Scorpion is going to have 750ft lbs, but I'll have to see it to believe it. I think we've hit a threshold for power in these motors. Not so much in the fact that they can't make them more powerful but it's the transmissions that will be getting wadded up like candy wrappers with these torque monsters hooked up to them. I think anything more than 700ft lbs and the costs will go even higher because they will have to develop a tranny that can withstand those numbers and still offer longevity. I know GM puts the Allison 2350 in the Kodiak's but regular heavy duty(1 ton and below) only get the basic Allison trans.

Which anything is possible I suppose. I know of a guy here in the Springs that pulled 29,000lbs with his Cummins and it was a '98 or 2000. So they can withstand the weight and strain but something will go eventually.


P.S.
for the record I've test drove several Powerstrokes. A 2000, 2002, 2008 and 2009. Plus the few 6.0's at my work. And the only ones that really impressed me were the new 6.4's. 7.3's were nice but lacked punch. 6.0's were good but we treat em hard at work. 6.4's had nice power and were grunty.

That being said, I've only been in one Duramax(my friends) and it's dang zippy. Gets up a moves.

As far as Cummins go, aside from my 07, I've tested a 2005, 2006, 2002 and a 2008. One that impressed me the most was the 2006, it was a 1 ton Dually with a 6 speed. That truck flat rocked!!! Mine pushes me in the seat but that '06 would slam you back. Probably had to do with the gearing as it was a 1 ton and Dually(most dually's will come with shorter gears). Only reason I didn't pick up that '06 was the dealer wasn't wanting to work a deal out so I walked. I'm happier as I've got the last of the 5.9 Cummins and none of the new 6.7 emissions BS that's on them.

[Kim-n-Dean]

yeah I ain't saying your Powerstroke isn't great. Just couldn't believe you pulling that much and leaving Cummins and Dura's in the dust. For the most part all three manufactures are fairly equal from the factory(in stock form). Obviously each of the three will do something different/better than the other but they are fairly matched.

So you either got a freak Powerstroke, or you're running old Cummins and older Duramax's. Which I could see if yours is a 6.0 and you're going up against a 12V Cummins. 12V's for all their greatness aren't powerhouses(compared to a New Cummins). I think some of the earlier 12V's(93-95) barely had 200hp and around 450lbs of torque.I never said "leave in the dust" or "blow away". Those are your terms. I have no idea what year the other trucks were. I have no idea how hard they were driving them. All I know is that they got passed by me on a hill.

I outran a WRX when I first got the truck. What does that mean? I have no idea either.

[MileHighColt]

I outran a WRX when I first got the truck. What does that mean? I have no idea either.

That means that the squirrel "driving" it didn't know what he/she was doing. :)

[Kim-n-Dean]

That means that the squirrel "driving" it didn't know what he/she was doing. :)I would say so, too. Especially if it's an automatic. No one stalls 'em up for a proper launch. I can even outrun my buddies manual shift Crossfire because he leaves at idle. Maybe he's just saving his clutch though, I don't know...

Where's that "turbo truck racing" post and video from a long time ago?

[rforsythe]

I'd have to see you out pull a Cummins up a mountain pass since how you're completely Stock. Duramax maybe, but the new Dura's are wicked powerful. But towing a 30ft toy hauler + 19ft boat = about maybe 15,000lbs?? And you're blowing away Cummins and Duramax's with Singles?? :bs: I was born at night but not last night.

I pass other people towing my rig too, but I don't think it means shit. They're just going slower. Most people just set it on cruise and forget it; I set mine a little higher so I get home sooner, other people take longer and spend a little less on gas. It's a toss up.


We loaded up our F550 dumptruck with 13 skidloader bucket loads of gravel and it could barely do 40mph up Fillmore hill, puffin smoke(white) and smelling like anit-freeze(and it's a newer 6.0).

Might want to get the EGR cooler checked out if it's puffing white and smelling like coolant. The one notorious weakness of the 6.0's is that cooler getting plugged up, which is bad.


what's up with you guys getting such weird mpg readings. I've managed 24mpg highway and usually do 16-18mpg in town(bone stock). I noticed on highway I get my best fuel mileage running between 65-70mph. Overhead console reading has been as high as 30mpg on highway but I know that's off a bit(plus it's more instaneous readings than average, unless you don't reset it).

Are you getting that on a 6.0? Those are considered normal mpg's for our trucks AFAIK. 21 on the highway isn't bad (I generally do 5 over), and 12.5 pulling what I do is awesome.


I never said "leave in the dust" or "blow away". Those are your terms. I have no idea what year the other trucks were. I have no idea how hard they were driving them. All I know is that they got passed by me on a hill.

I outran a WRX when I first got the truck. What does that mean? I have no idea either.

Yep, see above. Passing does not equal racing. I don't know about Dean or other drivers really, but when I am pulling something (particularly something big) I am not trying to see who can outrun the other guy; it's stupid, unsafe, and puts a massive amount of strain on everything. I need my truck to last many years, and don't want to be replacing tranny components just because my ego wasn't in check. Heavy loads = starting smoothly and letting things get up to speed, versus hammering the throttle and dumping all that torque into something that can't turn with it.

[Kim-n-Dean]

Ralph gave me an idea. Let's go to Bandimere with our trailers hooked up!! Bring spare u-joints and drive shafts.

[The Black Knight]

I pass other people towing my rig too, but I don't think it means shit. They're just going slower. Most people just set it on cruise and forget it; I set mine a little higher so I get home sooner, other people take longer and spend a little less on gas. It's a toss up.
That's how I am on the highway. I set mine to cruise and don't worry about it.

Might want to get the EGR cooler checked out if it's puffing white and smelling like coolant. The one notorious weakness of the 6.0's is that cooler getting plugged up, which is bad.
It's a work truck and it's up to our Fleet guys to fix it. It was under a very heavy load though. Fillmore Hill ain't exactly short to go up.

Are you getting that on a 6.0? Those are considered normal mpg's for our trucks AFAIK. 21 on the highway isn't bad (I generally do 5 over), and 12.5 pulling what I do is awesome.
Nope, I've got a 5.9 Cummins '07. I figure the I6 probably gets a little better than the V8's. But I know the V8's tend to do better on the highway(or highway speeds) than the I6 Cummins(probably just gearing)

Yep, see above. Passing does not equal racing. I don't know about Dean or other drivers really, but when I am pulling something (particularly something big) I am not trying to see who can outrun the other guy; it's stupid, unsafe, and puts a massive amount of strain on everything. I need my truck to last many years, and don't want to be replacing tranny components just because my ego wasn't in check. Heavy loads = starting smoothly and letting things get up to speed, versus hammering the throttle and dumping all that torque into something that can't turn with it.
I'm the same way, just because the truck and do it, doesn't mean you need to. Slow and steady up to speed is the way to go with heavy loads.

Which is why I think we've reached a threshold for torque in these trucks. The transmissions can only handle so much. If they start pushing 700 or 800lbs of torque. They are going to have to beef up the trannys to hold up over time.

[dues201]

I beg to differ. The cummins is a great motor but so is the powerstroke up till 2003. In 03 they switched to the 6.0 lt. engine and it sucked. The 7.3 is an awesome engine and will go a million miles as well. I have a 7.3 2002 powerstroke with a full exhaust a couple mods to the tranny and a 4 position dp tuner chip. Let me tell you that pulling my 36 ft. toyhauler is like nothing. This thing pulls like theres no tomorrow and gets pretty good gas milage. I have an econo mod for my chip and can regularly get 21 to 22 mpg on the highway and its a crew cab 4x4 3/4 ton.

I think it boils down to what truck style you like the most.


I do have to agree, I had a 92 7.3 IDI, basically the same engine non turbo that lasted me well into the 300K range without a hickup. I just didnt remember when ford switched to that horrible 6.0

[InlineSIX24]

Ralph gave me an idea. Let's go to Bandimere with our trailers hooked up!! Bring spare u-joints and drive shafts.

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/videos/57/6202897/index.html

[Kim-n-Dean]

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/videos/57/6202897/index.htmlWell... I was trying to be ridiculous, as usual. Had no idea people actually did that. That's cool!!

[InlineSIX24]

haha. Yeah. I don't think it's a regular thing anywhere. I think they just came up with it for the DP Challenge since that is closer to what the trucks are designed for rather than just drag racing unloaded.