Lets say i tear my bike down to the valves..

[Survivalism]

Ive got an 02 F4i and it probably needs a valve adjustment, but i just honestly dont have the money to take the bike to a shop to do it.

In the next couple of days i need to tear the bike down to the valve cover so i mind as well just get it all set up for a valve adjustment.. now heres my question.

If i have the bike down to the valves and all the covers off as well as bought the shims and etc would anyone be willing to come adjust them for like $20? I believe i can take the bike apart and put it back together pretty easy i am just a bit hesitant to try to adjust what i believe to be shim under bucket valves.. doesnt look / sound easy at all.

[MetaLord 9]

It's time consuming is the real issue. I haven't done it, but I've looked it over several times in online walkthroughs. I'd also get a new valve cover gasket & some RTV sealant to have handy in case things get funky with removing the cover. I had to replace that gasket on mine and the original came off in pieces

[Survivalism]

It's time consuming is the real issue. I haven't done it, but I've looked it over several times in online walkthroughs. I'd also get a new valve cover gasket & some RTV sealant to have handy in case things get funky with removing the cover. I had to replace that gasket on mine and the original came off in pieces

I figured the most time consuming part would be taking the bike down to the valves, of coarse this bike has 4 cylinders and when i did an adjustment on the ninja it was pretty easy, no shim under bucket valves though..

[Wrider]

The problem with shim under buckets is that while it allows for a lighter valvetrain, it makes adjusting them a bitch. You have to measure, then pull the cams to adjust, re-time the cams and torque them properly, then re-measure to make sure it's right. Takes quite a bit of time.

[CoRR]

I've done it on my KX a few times. If you get a good measurement the first time and do exactly as your told you can do it in 1 step. Shim/bucket type are not all that bad. Just follow the directions to the "T" and you can get it done. Shims are about $10 each (or they were for my KX )
Dont rush and if you get mad or even irritated just walk away and come back calm. YOU can do it pretty easy.
James

[Wrider]

KX = 1 cylinder = 4 valves
F4i = 4 cylinders = 16 valves

You usually can do it only once, but if there's 0 clearance then you have to guess as to what shim to put in there to adjust it.

[Survivalism]

Well jeesus.. id like to do it but i dont want to do it by myself with no experienced help. Thanks for all the input guys, probably saved me from one hell of a big headache. Just gotta start saving up to take her up to TFOG.

[brennahm]

I know all the maintenance nazi's on here will hate me for this but here you go...

Is there a problem with the bike? Like is it hard to start or extremely noisy? Your bike doesn't need the valves to be adjusted.

If the valves were loose (which is rare) they would make noise, but any noise you have is WAY more likely to be the cam chain which you would remedy with a manual cam chain tensioner.

If the valves are tight, then the bike becomes really hard to start. Furthermore, if the valve has gotten to that point, which means it has no clearance, then you don't need to swap shims, you need to rebuild your head. The valves don't just magically lose clearance, either the valve is stretching which you shouldn't fix with shims or it's receding into the head which also should not be fixed with new shims.

All in all, it sounds like you know how to check valve clearance. If you're that far into the bike then by all means go ahead and pop the valve cover and check them. But if there's a problem, it's pretty unlikely that all you need are new shims.

[MetaLord 9]

^^Then why are valve checks/valve jobs recommended as part of normal maintenance? I'm not being sarcastic here, I'm genuinely curious. You make it sound like the only reason to adjust the clearance is because the factory did a poor job, otherwise it's a pretty serious problem or a cam chain tensioner.

[Bueller]

Valve jobs are not recommended maintenance, checks are to make sure there isn't a problem. The initial check and so called adjustment is usually just a cash cow for dealers.

[Ricky]

Valve jobs are not recommended maintenance, checks are to make sure there isn't a problem. The initial check and so called adjustment is usually just a cash cow for dealers.

Kawasaki recommended more than just the initial one for my 2007 Ninja 250. There were several intervals where they recommended it, starting at 500mi. I thought it was a bit ridiculous. However, my Honda says every 16k

[Wrider]

If the valves are tight, then the bike becomes really hard to start. Furthermore, if the valve has gotten to that point, which means it has no clearance, then you don't need to swap shims, you need to rebuild your head. The valves don't just magically lose clearance, either the valve is stretching which you shouldn't fix with shims or it's receding into the head which also should not be fixed with new shims.

The most common reason that shims need to be adjusted are because the valve seats are sunken a little into the head. That's not a problem, that's normal. It's perfectly fine to adjust it with shims. If it get to the point where you can't adjust with shims anymore then it's time for a head rebuild.

[Zach929rr]

If you have your engine down to the valves, get a goddamn feeler gauge and save yourself $20.

Derp.

I'll take $20 from you.

[Survivalism]

If you have your engine down to the valves, get a goddamn feeler gauge and save yourself $20.

Derp.

I'll take $20 from you.

Well the bike is right at 16k but the valves still tick like they should i believe. Going to replace the spark plugs tomorrow so i may pull off the cover and check em.. ive got feeler guage things to check if they are in spec, i just dont have the trust in myself to adjust the lifeline of my brand new bike with little experience. ;)

[Zach929rr]

If you have a service manual it should be a piece of cake.

Chances are that your valves are just fine at 16k anyway, as has probably been stated in this thread already.

[FZRguy]

If you have a service manual? The first thing you should buy for any bike you own.

[Kevin]

@ brennahm: It's a maintenance check. They can get out of spec as the valve seat wears, which is normal. On bucket over shim valves, the clearance will get tighter, until the valve is not seating properly.

@ Survivalism: As others said, it's pretty simple if you take your time and measure carefully. IMO, the riskiest part is removing and re-timing the cams. The most confusing part is keeping the measurements and the math straight and figuring out what you need for shims.

Get a service manual. Make sure you have a feeler gauge with metric as the primary measurement so you can get your measurements in the proper increments. For example, you'll stack a .01mm and a .05mm together to measure .06mm. If your feeler gauge is primarily in inches, (with mm as a secondary measurement) then you won't have the proper mm increments to get the proper measurements. That's probably the biggest headache you can easily avoid. Don't even try with an inches feeler gauge.

Take the valve cover off and don't try to save the gasket - throw it away and have a new on on hand. Measure each valve clearance according to the service manual and write each one down. Measuring properly takes an experienced feel for how much drag you should feel on the feeler gauge. If you've never done it, get someone to show you what it should feel like.

Then write the spec down next to each one you recorded and do the math for each valve.

If your clearance is .11mm - .19mm and you measured .07, then you need a shim which is at least .04mm and no more than .12mm thinner than what's currently in there. Aim for the middle, so your goal is to get that valve to .16mm. You'll want a shim that's .09mm thinner. Take your time with the measurements and the math. As the valve and seat wears, the clearance will lessen, so you want to go towards the large end of the spec.

Once you have them all written down and the math done, set the motor at TDC (and don't bump it) and remove the cams and the buckets and shims. The shims that are currently in there will each be numbered to correspond to a thickness measurement. (it's been forever since I've done a honda, so I might be wrong here.) Play musical shims to get as many as you can close to your target clearance (close counts) and then run to the parts store with a list. Put the new shims where they should go, check that the crank is still at TDC, and put the cams back on, and torque everything as the manual says. Once it's back together, recheck your clearances to make sure you did the math right and that you're within spec.

If you're not comfortable doing this level of maintenance, best to take it to the shop, because you are going into engine internals. Chances are with that low mileage, you won't have to touch them; just check them, and they'll still be in spec. If they're out, you can then load it up and take it to the shop. Labor might be cheaper too, since you're already in there when you bring it to them.

[Matty]

Henry (brennahm) and I "checked" the valves on my 'o5 GSXR 1K with 48,652 miles on it yesterday, and both intake and exhaust were almost in the middle of spec. Now on the other hand my K&N was ridiciously dirty. I guess forgetting to clean it every once awhile didn't help. But now she purrrs like she did so many miles ago.

[FZRguy]

No worries there Matty. K&N filters need little cleaning and actually filter better when dirty.

4. How often do I need to clean my K&N air filter?

If you have not experienced a decrease in mileage or engine performance, chances are your filter is fine and does not yet need cleaning. To be more specific, the filter does not require cleaning if you can still see the wire screen on the entire air filter regardless of how dirty it may appear. When the screen is no longer visible some place on the filter, it is time to clean it. When used in normal paved road, street or highway conditions, our replacement air filters that fit in the factory air box should require cleaning every 50,000 miles and our large conical filters on an intake system should require cleaning every 100,000 miles. When used in dusty or off-road environments, our filters will require cleaning more often. We recommend that you visually inspect your filter once every 25,000 miles to determine if the screen is still visible.

[Matty]

ya, the last time it was clean was about 45,000 miles ago when i installed it. lol.

[brennahm]

Thanks for showing up 3 weeks later...


@ brennahm: It's a maintenance check.

Which is why I said they don't need to be adjusted, I never said they shouldn't be checked.


They can get out of spec as the valve seat wears, which is normal. On bucket over shim valves, the clearance will get tighter, until the valve is not seating properly.

The valve seat wearing to the point of needing new shims is not normal, it's the sign of something going wrong, like seat or valve coatings being gone. Please tell me you don't charge people for your services?

[Kevin]

Thanks for showing up 3 weeks later...

Which is why I said they don't need to be adjusted, I never said they shouldn't be checked.

The valve seat wearing to the point of needing new shims is not normal, it's the sign of something going wrong, like seat or valve coatings being gone. Please tell me you don't charge people for your services?

Didn't mean any offense. Needing to replace shims to maintain valve clearance is completely normal. But not at 16k miles. So we're both saying the same thing. And yes, I did charge for routine valve adjustment maintenance on automobiles when I was a tech.