10% ethanol vs 15% vs motorcycles

[Ghost Rider]

Interesting ....... Gov at work.

http://motorcycling.speedtv.com/article/bikes-federal-action-to-allow-more-ethanol-in-gasoline-could-damage-motorcy/

[TinkerinWstuff]

I find it hard to believe that motorcycle manufacturers haven't tested their motors with ethanol blends more than E15 for that matter. The trend has been coming for a long time and personally I doubt it will hurt anything.

Kind of like the fear of unleaded fuels that pretty much turned out to be nothing.

[OUTLAWD]

engines had to be changed signifigantly to run on unleaded fuels...hardened valve seats, different valve material, etc.

I'm not going to get started, but corn based ethanol is a complete failure, and I wish the government would stop forcing it on everyone. Maybe I'll just stock up on leaded sunonco @ HPR...mmmm...smells sooo good

[Mother Goose]

I'm wondering how they would regulate if you are using E15 or not on the vehicle that it supposed to use it.

[asp_125]

Corn growers subsidies FTL. Hemp based fuels FTW! :D

The article doesn't say what specific harm it does to a motor. Someone's bound to come up with an additive, much like they did when leaded gas became scarce.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Yep, the yield on corn based ethanol is pretty weak. I read somewhere that it takes something like 2.5 gallons of petrol to produce 1 gallon of ethanol. On top of that, the more ethanol that is in petrol, the worse gas milage you will get. Corn based ethanol is not the answer... but the ethanol lobby is pretty powerful.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Alcohol fuels should be used for large stationary powere generators where they can be specifically designed for it (alcohol-resistant seals, etc.), and where the distillery (garbage fermentation, etc.) can be located on-premise or nearby. Alcohol is caustic to seals and gaskets, and even the aluminum of your engine. I can see it easily causing damage. In fact, a friend who used to work with Indy cars tells me they start the engines on gasoline, run the alcohol fuel, then at shutdown run the engine again on pure gasoline to get all the alcohol out of the engine and fuel pumps/lines etc. because it's so nasty.

[Scored51]

A couple of the basic problems with this is the ethanol will destroy all natural rubbers in the fuel system. Fuel lines, injector seals, and all carburetor seals. t is also an alcohol based fuel where the correct mixture with air is 9 to 1 (not 14.7 to 1). Therefore, there is a decrease in fuel economy as you will need as much as 1/3 more ethanol versus gasoline to produce the same effect. My final rant about this is I once saw a statistic that said is every inch of agricultural land in this country was converted to grow crops for ethanol production, it would be enough to cover only 7% of our fuel needs.

My .02 on four cents worth of paper.

[longrider]

Even the supporters of E15 say it is only for 2007 and newer vehicles. That makes me wonder what retailer would want to switch as he would be cutting off 80 -90% of his potential customers?

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Even the supporters of E15 say it is only for 2007 and newer vehicles. That makes me wonder what retailer would want to switch as he would be cutting off 80 -90% of his potential customers?
Excellent point. I have an '01, and I don't want to run that shit.

[TinkerinWstuff]

engines had to be changed signifigantly to run on unleaded fuels...hardened valve seats, different valve material, etc.

That's what they said. But I know plenty of engines in autos and small engines that predated the lead fuel debate, running just fine on unleaded. Those design changes/improvements happened anyway and are probably a key reason why we see vehicles turning 400,000 miles.

[OUTLAWD]

Best estimates show ~1:1 fuel used to ethanol produced, but the corn lobby is the ethanol lobby, and when I met with these rubes in DC, they actually believe corn is a great solution. I was in a meeting trying not to laugh at the shit that was spewing from their mouths...

even for other alt. fuels, an acre of soybeans yields ~60 gallons of fuel...who in there right mind looks at an acre of land, and a years worth of work as 2 tankfulls in their pickup.


come-on bio-butanol! haha

[TinkerinWstuff]

400,000miles divided by 30mpg = 222acres of soybeans over the life of the vehicle.

that's a lot of realestate. Better get started tearing down those wind towers and plowing fields.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Best estimates show ~1:1 fuel used to ethanol produced, but the corn lobby is the ethanol lobby, and when I met with these rubes in DC, they actually believe corn is a great solution. I was in a meeting trying not to laugh at the shit that was spewing from their mouths...

even for other alt. fuels, an acre of soybeans yields ~60 gallons of fuel...who in there right mind looks at an acre of land, and a years worth of work as 2 tankfulls in their pickup.


come-on bio-butanol! haha
Yeah, it's pathetic that these idiots think it's worth it. The Greens don't believe in the reality of physics, obviously. Now, bio-fuels from fermented garbage is a great idea from what I've read. Hey, it's waste anyways, right?

[jbnwc]

Let me introduce you to Captain Obvious:


Bob Greco, spokesman for the American Petroleum Institute, told The Wall Street Journal that by approving E15 without full testing, the EPA is putting "politics before science."

Since when has the EPA been anything but a political weapon against us?

[jbnwc]

Even the supporters of E15 say it is only for 2007 and newer vehicles. That makes me wonder what retailer would want to switch as he would be cutting off 80 -90% of his potential customers?

They don't - I saw a station in IA that had three versions of E10(89. 90, and 93), E15, E25(IIRC) E85, diesel, farm diesel, and bio-diesel. It was a fuel buffet!

[fasterlaster]

Ethanol is a good idea in theory, just in in practice as it currently is. With the problems associated with seals and what not for older vehicles, and the decreased fuel efficiency it's not there. The plus is this is a renewable source of fuel for vehicles, but my understanding is the energy needed to both harvest and process ethanol far outweighs the gain at this point. Who knows what the future holds.

[R1NORI]

They are just trying a different approach to control the public
now that gas/oil prices are down
let's make up some bullshit that the public will believe so we can make more $$$

[jbnwc]

They are just trying a different approach to control the public
now that gas/oil prices are down
let's make up some bullshit that the public will believe so we can make more $$$

:imwithstupid:

The single biggest benefit to corn ethanol is that it's all produced right here; no shipping our money overseas.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

:imwithstupid:

The single biggest benefit to corn ethanol is that it's all produced right here; no shipping our money overseas.
Regardless, the energy out of the process vs the energy in to the process makes it a huge mistake. Anything that takes more energy than it produces is just stupid.

[dchd1130]

I own a few small engine shops and 10% ethanol fuels have been hell for these engines. Cant wait to see the problems that arise with the 15%. All of the manufactures, say not to use any fuel over 10% ethanol in the owners manuals now. Between the regulations on the fuels and the regulations on the engines. They are making it very tough to keep these engines running. Its great for the repair department. Keeps stuff coming in. It gets old, explaining to the average homeowner why his new machine is so much harder to keep running then his 15 year old mower was.

[Sarge]

One of these Ethanol execs just got caught slipping millions "secretly" to some Republican special interest money laundering factory. Yay for America! and rich people everywhere!

[Sarge]

Found it:



Bruce Rastetter the original money behind American Future Fund


The American Future Fund, a conservative organization based in Iowa, has been one of the more active players in this fall’s campaigns, spending millions of dollars on ads attacking Democrats across the country. It has not hesitated to take credit for its attacks, issuing press releases with headlines like “AFF Launches TV Ads in 13 States Targeting Liberal Politicians.”

Like many of the other groups with anodyne names engaged in the battle to control Congress, it does not have to identify its donors, keeping them — and their possible motivations — shrouded from the public.

But interviews found that the group was started with seed money from at least one influential Iowa businessman: Bruce Rastetter, a co-founder and the chief executive of one of the nation’s larger ethanol companies, Hawkeye Energy Holdings, and a rising force in state Republican politics. And hints of a possible agenda emerge from a look at the politicians on the American Future Fund’s hit list. Most have seats on a handful of legislative committees with a direct say in the ethanol industry.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/12/us/politics/12donate.html

GO Republicans! And +1 for special interests!

[jbnwc]

Found it:






http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/12/us/politics/12donate.html

GO Republicans! And +1 for special interests!

This might be credible if the NY Times served as anything more than a Leftist Pawn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y8tzEmhm1o

[Sarge]

Times was just the first place that popped up in a Google search. I first read about it on Time and CNN, and you can find the same story on MSNBC and others.