Got Taken out biking on the trail yesterday(LONG RANT)

[justintyme73]

So I went for a bike ride yesterday with my dog Izze, on one of our great paved city trails. We've been doing this for almost 4 years now, she loves it and does great doing it. I hold her 5' leash and she heels on my right side which keeps her out of traffic when we have to ride on a street. She doesnt lunge after squirrels, ignores other dogs etc while we do it. She's about 40lbs max, a small Vizsla(hungarian pointer kinda like a german shorthair)

So we had cruised about 3miles yesterday and we were right beside the golf course as we came up behind a guy going the same direction walking his large Lab on a retractable leash. The dog was off the trail on the right hand side and in front of the guy a ways. I called out to warn him as we were passing and the his dog turned, saw Izze and charged us from across the trail. I hold Izzes leash just short enough so she can't get behind the bike, so he piled into Izze and they both hit my back tire as I was trying to stop. I was clipped into the pedals and crashed hard on my left side, and then popped up as fast as I could. The guy was reeling in his dog and I grabbed Izze(she was hiding behind me as soon as he pulled his dog off her, she's pretty much a chicken when it comes to dogs bigger than her). At this point I was upset but not pissed............I was checking Izze for bites and myself for injurieslll

Then the douchbag opened his mouth and said "I just don't get you guys" in a condesending tone that set my blood boiling. I didnt know WTF that meant and said exactly that, "What the fuck does that mean??" " You people riding bikes with your dogs" he says, like this wreck was obviously my fault. I replied "Well I certainly don't understand how The Fuck you can think that you not controling your dog is my fault!! I was getting pretty agitated at this point and a couple of the golfers actually had come over to see if I was OK. He then started to say my dog wasnt in control either as I had let go of the leash as I was crashing.....Seriously???? I said and I started to threaten to stick his RETRACTABLE leash up his ass. At this point one of the golfers spoke up and said "So your dog runs across the trail and attacks him and It's his fault and he was out of control??" He kind of puffed up then shook his head and tried to stick out his hand for a hand shake. "Fuck Off!" was my only response and he turned and pouted his way up the trail.

I thanked the two golfers for coming over, They were in disbelief as to what the guy had said. Izze was OK and I had some pent up anger to excercise out so we ended up doing about 10 miles.

I am so sore today!! Feels like I got hit by an NFL Linebacker, that concrete makes a ruff landing. My left Knee is skinned, my whole left side is bruised and my left elbow doesnt want to straighten out. Chainring took a nice bite of my right ankle too. Thank fully I was wearing a helmet cuz its toast, It cracked all the way through from the impact. Anyways thats my story, It won't deter me from riding with my dog once I heal up a bit and get a new helmet!

[JonnyD]

I had a similar incident with a greyhound I was fostering. I was at a baseball field (there's 2 side by side - each is completely fenced in) I take foster greyhounds there to run because they really enjoy running, and its completely fenced in and usually no other dogs there.

Anyway, I'm there one morning, another guy with a Lab comes up to the gate and comes in (other field is free). I yell to him to shut the gate and call my foster back to me, fortunately the foster didn't see the other dog. I'm walking to the gate with my dog on leash and his dog sees us, comes screaming across the field barking aggressively the entire way. I put myself between the two dogs and hunker down. That lab took my legs out and full speed and took a knee to the head in the process. Knocked me and my dog down, then scampered off as I landed on him from having feet taken out.

I yell at the owner, he apparently didn't even hear me earlier about the gate but yelled back "My dog isn't good with other dogs" along with some other crap that got my blood boiling. Awesome. Think you could do something simple like LOOK at your surroundings before putting your dog into a bad situation? I made my exit as quickly as I could.

OH well, my rant is over, and I'm really glad the golfers stuck up for you. There are many times I think that owners should be put through a ringer before being allowed a dog. Especially ones with those $%#@!ing retractable leashes. I realize they're purpose, and that they can be very very good. I have yet to see one good with any dog larger than about 50lbs, for the simple reason that by the time the dog gets to the end of that leash... you're losing the leash or your arm.

As for walking your dog on the bike... you might try with a dual sport like one of my neighbors does! Bet the exhaust note would give that other guy enough notice to reel in his dog.

[FZRguy]

So you crashed riding with a dog on a leash? Shocking. I ride 3,000 plus miles of paths, trails, street, everywhere commuting to work each year. I see it all the time and it’s a crash waiting to happen. Not busting your chops 73, but you're gonna crash if you do that and the reason or fault really doesn’t matter.

[justintyme73]

Actually the reason does matter to me. If I crash because of something I do thats fine I'll deal with it. If someone causes me to crash whether or not I have a dog with me thats their fault, and I can be upset about it if I want to be.

[Airreed]

If your dog keeps crashing he might turn out like this:

[Airreed]

Dude that sucks, I take my Vizsla out on runs all the time and he's really good on and off the leash....too bad other owners can't socialize their dogs better.

[FZRguy]

It’s your skin and you’re gonna lose more if you ride with a dog on a leash. The dog walkers with 50 ft. of leash strung across the path are no better. Be safer to let the dog run free….or go to a dog park.

[Sleev]

glad to hear you and Izze are ok!

Have you thought about one of these?

http://www.prlog.org/10314705-springer-bike-attachment-exercises-you-and-your-dog.jpg

[wankel7]

I'm sorry that you crashed, had a crappy interaction with another trail user, and are banged up.

But the fact is you can't control the outside world. You just do what you can to minimize the risk.

I know the accident wasn't your fault. But if I was to build a house of cards outside...who's fault is it if the wind kicks up and my house falls down? It would happen eventually I suppose.

[justintyme73]

I guess I dont see riding around with my dog as inherently dangerous as some of you do. In fact I've done it for years without a problem. In this case it really doesnt matter anyways, If I had been running with or walking my dog, and someones dog runs across the trail and attacks mine I guess we would have had it coming too??

Theres really no difference here. He was at fault, his dog attacked mine.

[justintyme73]

If your dog keeps crashing he might turn out like this:
Great looking Dog!!

Here's Izze out biking with us up on the Michigan ditch where she can be off leash. She does great off and on leash, she likes to stick close!
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t85/justintyme73/macie%20mtn%20biking/IMG_2086.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t85/justintyme73/macie%20mtn%20biking/IMG_2043.jpg

[bulldog]

I have read that some cities have banned riding a bicycle with your dog. May want to make sure you are not in one (not even sure any here in CO though).

I think you need to invest in the proper equipment to ensure the safety of you and your dog. Better to be safe than sorry. The equipment uses a spring to dampen the pull of a dog and is cheaper than one visit to the vet.

Here is one:
http://www.topdogs.com.au/categories/Dog-Bike-Attachment/

[MetaLord 9]

Guess I'm not seeing the big beef about riding a bike with a dog. If the dog's well behaved on the trail and you are in control then what's the deal? If you're not in control of your animal and yourself, then you shouldn't be on a trail at all, bike or not. If I'm walking my dog on a trail and I run into the same guy who's dog charges mine, then I'm gonna be pissed too, but it's still gonna be his fault 'cause he's not in control. Dog or not, folks lose control on trails all the time & get in each other's way

[bulldog]

Guess I'm not seeing the big beef about riding a bike with a dog. If the dog's well behaved on the trail and you are in control then what's the deal? If you're not in control of your animal and yourself, then you shouldn't be on a trail at all, bike or not. If I'm walking my dog on a trail and I run into the same guy who's dog charges mine, then I'm gonna be pissed too, but it's still gonna be his fault 'cause he's not in control. Dog or not, folks lose control on trails all the time & get in each other's way Physics! You stand and hold a rope and I will pull it, then get on a bicycle on let me pull that same rope with the same force and tell me which is harder to control. Just saying....

[MetaLord 9]

I understand the physics of it, but if your dog wrecks you on a bike, then that's your fault. If someone else's dog wrecks you while you're on a bike, that's their fault. I don't see people's problem with folks on bikes with dogs. It's like saying folks on motorcycles are more likely to hurt themselves than folks in cars, so motorcycles should be illegal and anyone who wrecks on a motorcycle should be at fault, regardless of what happens. I'm not trying to be a dick about it all, but I'm just having trouble understanding the viewpoint is all.

[bulldog]

I understand the physics of it, but if your dog wrecks you on a bike, then that's your fault. If someone else's dog wrecks you while you're on a bike, that's their fault. I don't see people's problem with folks on bikes with dogs. It's like saying folks on motorcycles are more likely to hurt themselves than folks in cars, so motorcycles should be illegal and anyone who wrecks on a motorcycle should be at fault, regardless of what happens. I'm not trying to be a dick about it all, but I'm just having trouble understanding the viewpoint is all.
So if you are drunk and driving and someone hits you, you should not be charged with drunk driving? Certain responsibilities come with the privledge of driving; rather it be a bicycle or car.
I am not saying I am against riding a bike with a dog, but I feel a certain amount of blame goes to the person that takes this chance. Just seems kind of dangerous to me...

[Ricky]

Some people are incapable of controlling their dogs... And what's worse is they don't even know it.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I actually think retractable leashes should be banned. You can't tell me you have your dog on a "leash" under control when it's 20' out in front of you. With a little 3 yr-old, I worry some assholes dog is going to bite her, and then I'd have to kill the dog and it's owner. People should have to have a short leash so what happened above DOESN'T happen again.

Sorry to hear it, hope you're ok.

[DorJammer]

Wow;
Really I have to hear a rant from some bicyclist, who not only thinks he owns the road but the trail by the golf course?

Tell you what, if you can't share with others on their terms then GTFO.

He had every right to be there, just as you did. Next time unclip your dam feet, or walk your dog. My God, the fact that he has a retractable leash seems to upset you as well.

Your folks obviously thought you were special, go do some push ups and man up.

[MetaLord 9]

I'm still missing it. Somebody else's dog goes after this guy's dog and he gets knocked off his bike because of the other guy's dog, right? Did I miss anything in the post? It's same as if the guy had been riding the bike and the dog went after his wheel or the dog ran across his path with a long leash & clotheslined the bike. The fact that 73 here had his dog with him is almost irrelevant since his dog wasn't doing anything except for being next to him. I'm not seeing the reason for anathema.

Nate, I also think that the drunk driving metaphor doesn't really apply hear since a guy on his bike with a dog is only really a danger to himself where a drunk driver is almost always a danger to others. If someone wants to bike with their dog, then it's the problem if the dog pulls them off the bike. I'm not seeing how the guy on the bike with a dog is a danger or problem for others. Maybe it's just because I don't encounter a lot of riders with dogs on the trails I run.

[bulldog]

Nate, I also think that the drunk driving metaphor doesn't really apply hear since a guy on his bike with a dog is only really a danger to himself where a drunk driver is almost always a danger to others. If someone wants to bike with their dog, then it's the problem if the dog pulls them off the bike. I'm not seeing how the guy on the bike with a dog is a danger or problem for others. Maybe it's just because I don't encounter a lot of riders with dogs on the trails I run.
Why could a person on a bike with a dog not be a danger or problem to another person? What if a dog saw a rabbit run through the trail, pulls the bike and person into a kid that is walking by; animals are unpredicatable. My point is if the person was not on a bike, then would this have still happened? My guess is no because it is much easier to control a dog while your feet are planted to the ground rather than planted on a bike; people go sideways, bikes do not. Again just saying the bike rider has to have some fault in this by taking the risk.

[MetaLord 9]

There's always the chance when riding with a dog that something unpredictable just like when riding a bicycle, motorcycle, car, etc. I'll give you that animals are unpredictable, but all the his dog did in this case was attract the second dog over to the bike and into the rear wheel. 73's dog really wasn't a player in this. If his dog hadn't been there and the second dog had just gone after the rear wheel (maybe he doesn't like wheels, or bicycles, or wanted to chase a moving thing, whatever the reason... ) then it would be 100% the fault of the second dog's owner wouldn't it? It wouldn't be the bicycle rider's fault that he was attacked by a dog would it?

If a guy's out riding his bike with a dog & the dog see's a squirrel, drags the dude off of his bike, then it's his fault and that was the risk he took. I don't know that there's any reason to regulate something like that by saying you can't ride a bike with a dog. If you wanna take that chance, go ahead! You've got a brain to protect yourself from doing stupid stuff. If it doesn't to it's job, then you pay the consequences

[bulldog]

There's always the chance when riding with a dog that something unpredictable just like when riding a bicycle, motorcycle, car, etc. I'll give you that animals are unpredictable, but all the his dog did in this case was attract the second dog over to the bike and into the rear wheel. 73's dog really wasn't a player in this. If his dog hadn't been there and the second dog had just gone after the rear wheel (maybe he doesn't like wheels, or bicycles, or wanted to chase a moving thing, whatever the reason... ) then it would be 100% the fault of the second dog's owner wouldn't it? It wouldn't be the bicycle rider's fault that he was attacked by a dog would it?

If a guy's out riding his bike with a dog & the dog see's a squirrel, drags the dude off of his bike, then it's his fault and that was the risk he took. I don't know that there's any reason to regulate something like that by saying you can't ride a bike with a dog. If you wanna take that chance, go ahead! You've got a brain to protect yourself from doing stupid stuff. If it doesn't to it's job, then you pay the consequences So you think the same situation would have happen if they were walking the dog and not on a bicycle?

Yes, if someone isn't strong enough to control a dog, they are at fault. Get a smaller dog that is not stronger than the owner. Exactly why I don't let my little sister walk my bulldog.

This has been banned in many cities and I assume for valid reasons.

[MetaLord 9]

I think that if the guy hadn't had a dog, had just been on a bicycle and someone else's dog ran into the bike then it would the second guy's fault for not controlling his dog.

Just because something is banned, I don't always know that it's for good reasons, especially at local and municipality levels. Sometimes things are banned over a single incident, or for popular reasons, not good ones. Just because people who don't ride motorcycles think it's a good idea for motorcycle riders to be required to wear helmets, doesn't make that a good law necessarily.

[Ricky]

Wow;
Really I have to hear a rant from some bicyclist, who not only thinks he owns the road but the trail by the golf course?

Tell you what, if you can't share with others on their terms then GTFO.

He had every right to be there, just as you did. Next time unclip your dam feet, or walk your dog. My God, the fact that he has a retractable leash seems to upset you as well.

Your folks obviously thought you were special, go do some push ups and man up.

So what you're saying is, you're the guy who couldn't keep control of his fucking dog?

[Ricky]

Why could a person on a bike with a dog not be a danger or problem to another person? What if a dog saw a rabbit run through the trail, pulls the bike and person into a kid that is walking by; animals are unpredicatable. My point is if the person was not on a bike, then would this have still happened? My guess is no because it is much easier to control a dog while your feet are planted to the ground rather than planted on a bike; people go sideways, bikes do not. Again just saying the bike rider has to have some fault in this by taking the risk.

I see what you're saying, but not all animals are unpredictable. I am in control of my dog 100% of the time when we are on a run, skates, bike, etc. Even when we are in the park playing fetch, and he's 100 yards away, I still have full control over him.

If your dog does not trust you, and see you as the dominant one, that's when problems arise. Dogs are actually quite predictable, especially compared to humans. Dogs are used to the same things that happen over and over and over again. Obviously, this dude with the crazy dog had no control over it. It reacted exactly the same way it has to other bikes or dogs before, and the owner reacted just as he had before... "psh, whatever, not my fault" and because the human doesn't feel it's his fault, the dog gets no discipline, and more likely affection, which further encourages the dog's behavior the next time. The dog now knows the next time he sees a dog next to a bike, he will get affection for going after it. It's really pretty simple.

[bulldog]

I see what you're saying, but not all animals are unpredictable. I am in control of my dog 100% of the time when we are on a run, skates, bike, etc. Even when we are in the park playing fetch, and he's 100 yards away, I still have full control over him.

If your dog does not trust you, and see you as the dominant one, that's when problems arise. Dogs are actually quite predictable, especially compared to humans. Dogs are used to the same things that happen over and over and over again. Obviously, this dude with the crazy dog had no control over it. It reacted exactly the same way it has to other bikes or dogs before, and the owner reacted just as he had before... "psh, whatever, not my fault" and because the human doesn't feel it's his fault, the dog gets no discipline, and more likely affection, which further encourages the dog's behavior the next time. The dog now knows the next time he sees a dog next to a bike, he will get affection for going after it. It's really pretty simple.
I agree that the other person was at fault too because they were using a retractable leash and one of the leash laws is a restriction on how long it could be. My point is I feel this could have been avoided if the person was walking their dog and not on a bicycle; therefore making them a little at fault. If the dog was 100% controlled, then it would have sat there perfectly still as the bad dog came at him/her; but instead it reacted like most dogs do and moved around to encounter the bad dog making the bike rider fall off.

I encounter dogs everyday when walking mine and many come up to him and he reacts too. Now if I decided to ride around on something that was not intended for what it is being used for (like walking a dog) and something bad happen to me, I would feel a bit at fault for riding around on it knowing I was taking that chance. Not to mention bikes are made to be rode with two hands, so that is a chance in itself to ride with one hand holding a leash. Get off your bike and walk the dog the way the leash was created for and use the bike for yourself and not your dog. If not don’t cry if you get hurt….

So sometimes who cares who is at fault, because measures could be taken to reduce the risks and it is the smart thing to do regardless. Doesn’t take back the fact this bicycle rider could have got really hurt and suffered injuries for life. Oh wait, except the American dream to sue someone….

[wankel7]

If you're riding a bike and have a dog on a leash it's an accident waiting to happen. Dog stops fast becuase they get something in their paw, dog trips, bolts after something, some comes after your dog...

A good push and a biker is on the ground. I play a lot of bike polo and it's pretty easy to make somebody put a foot down.

Anyways, don't let reality stand in the way of a good idea.

[Sleev]

I dont feel like Justin was at fault here. The only reason I recommend the bike hardware is because dog trainers recommend them.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Why don't we just have some fucking redneck diesel pickup driving asshole drive up the path and smoke everyone out equally? :)

Actually, I'd have to side with the OP. It sounds like the other person's dog was out of control. I HATE the retractable leaches. There's absolutely no way you have control of your dog on a 20' leash. Bullshit.

[mathman1000]

Too bad you couldn't taser his fucking dog. The guy didn't control his dog AND was an asshole about it.....fuck him. Nothing worse than people who have animals and can't control them. Like the assholes who leave their dogs outside barking all night; real nice folks.

Does anyone know what would happen if you tasered or pepper sprayed another person's agressive dog?

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Too bad you couldn't taser his fucking dog. The guy didn't control his dog AND was an asshole about it.....fuck him. Nothing worse than people who have animals and can't control them. Like the assholes who leave their dogs outside barking all night; real nice folks.

Does anyone know what would happen if you tasered or pepper sprayed another person's agressive dog?
NOTHING should happen. The guy was defending himself and his dog from some asshole's overly agressive UNcontrolled dog. I'd have no problem whatsoever shooting the thing dead if it came at me while walking my daughter. I'd have no problem shooting the owner dead as well if it came to that. I'd protect my daughter first and worry about the rest later. People should have their dogs under control.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I'm still waiting for the official "Fucking asshole whiney bitches on internet forums!!" thread in response to this...... ;)

[CaptGoodvibes]

Seems to me the guy on foot was unreasonable. He tried to place unwarranted blame on the OP. That the OP had a dog does not seem important to me. His dog did nothing but exist in that space and time. That it was a distraction to the larger dog is not the smaller dogs fault. To argue it is, is not far from blaming a girl for getting raped because of her short skirt, or to blame a motorcyclist for dying in a left-turn crash because of the fact that they were simply riding without a cage. In both of these examples, ALL reasonable people will place the blame where it belongs; the inattentive driver or the rapist.

Kudos to the OP for keeping the escalation level low. I don't react well when someone causes me to crash.

[FZRguy]

The way I see it….aw shit, never mind. :lol:

[justintyme73]

Guys I didnt want to start a war over this. I agree there is some risk in me riding with my dog, but we could have been attacked running or walking by this guy. He really was not in control of his dog at all!!!

Hell, Here's a motorcycle analogy from my point of view of course.

Say you're riding and legally passing a car going the same direction, just as you pass him he veers into you and takes you down. Now you should just accept this, not hold him resposnsible for his actions, or especially not call him a douchenozzle because

A: Motorcycles, especially sportbikes are just plain dangerous! You had it coming!

B: If you were a responsible motorcyclist you'd be riding a straight piped HD so he could hear you beside him. LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES BRO!!

C: Jesus loves him, so he shouldnt have to be accoutable for driving like an idiot. Just ask yourself WWJD??

D: All of the above

I'm gonna go with D, LOL and wish you all a goodnight. Do with this thread what you will boys.

[FZRguy]

No war here, just good ol' CSC entertainment.

[bulldog]

Yeah no worries, no war. Most of us know eachother, so we just bs to make the workday go by faster :lol:

I am sorry for what happened to you though as I do agree the other person should have controlled their dog better. I am sure your doggy is much happier than his anyways :)

[MetaLord 9]

Nate knows a thing or two 'bout happeh puppehs! Plus, you don't wanna argue with Nate, he'll probably just wad you into a can kick you to a curb. Guy's all grissle

[justintyme73]

My dog, Happy?? Yea she's a clown and spoiled rotten. They are high energy dogs and need their excercise though, which is good motivation for me, LOL
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t85/justintyme73/roaring%20creek/DSC00841.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t85/justintyme73/roaring%20creek/DSC00839.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t85/justintyme73/Xmas%20Tree/izze/DSC00340.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t85/justintyme73/Xmas%20Tree/izze/Izzepoint3.jpg

[bulldog]

Nate knows a thing or two 'bout happeh puppehs! Plus, you don't wanna argue with Nate, he'll probably just wad you into a can kick you to a curb. Guy's all grissle Chris is just still drunk from his bday yesterday :lol:

Nice, here are my babies (Well one is 14 and had him since a puppy; tho other is 3) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/bulldog420/IndyandBubba91709001.jpg

[MetaLord 9]

Didn't drunk last night Nathan, but you should be glad I'm not make'n roid rage jokes anymore! :lol:

[Airreed]

Jesus Saves!

[MetaLord 9]

Jesus Saves!
...passes to Moses...he shoots....GOOOOOOAAAAAAAL!!! And the Christians are on the board!

[bulldog]

Didn't drunk last night Nathan, but you should be glad I'm not make'n roid rage jokes anymore! :lol: Wow, you didn't drink for your bday....this explains why I just saw a pig fly by my office window :lol:

[MetaLord 9]

Wow, you didn't drink for your bday....this explains why I just saw a pig fly by my office window :lol:
It's not a pig, it's a new product: Bacon Lite

[Mista Black]

I saw "long rant" and thought this might be Vance's alter ego. Then I opened it and saw it was a really short rant (comparatively speaking).

[justintyme73]

I saw "long rant" and thought this might be Vance's alter ego. Then I opened it and saw it was a really short rant (comparatively speaking).

Sorry, I'll rant harder next time, LOL. It was long for me!